The constant disbanding of Steps of Faith

SoF actually has something that most Trials don't. An NPC who tells you exactly what to do and when to do it. Sadly, she doesn't have a voice, so unless people stop to read what she says, her directions are falling on deaf... eyes?

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Steps highlights exactly why some are stuck on tier 5 even massivly overgearing and with echo.

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Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because of everything difficult about turn 5 being a 1-shot mechanic that doesn't care how well geared you are, right?

Honestly, I was worried about doing Steps of Faith through the Duty Finder because of what everyone on the forums has been saying. I did it for the first time a couple of days ago and completed it after one wipe. I was slow with the cannons the first time since I'd never done it before, but by the second time I had it down. Helped that I'd watched a guide a couple of times to make sure I knew what I was going into.

That being said, I think it's a shame it's probably going to be nerfed. I've never done any EX primals or the BCoB (not really into the hardcore raids/instances) and beat it pretty easily. Seems more like people just don't want to have to communicate with others to get party content done. But I suppose that's nothing new (sadly).

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

- too many 1-shots from nearly everything Vishap does, including merely stepping on you + Vishap going invisible if the camera moves to certain areas inside his model
- too many adds + very hard to see at times where is safe to stand + combined with the fact that standard practice is to herd everything to one place
- that goddamn turtle
- people are very unaware (evidenced by this very topic, even) of how little damage the cannons/dragonkillers actually do on their own and you actually still need to be outputting a good amount of "standard" DPS on Vishap to be able to win
- it's usually clear if you'll lose even before the 50% mark, yet you must wait out the whole encounter to retry
- roles are mostly superfluous due to all the "click" mechanics

It's just not a very well designed fight; ergo, it's irritating

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Wrong. Wroooong. WROOOONG. Ignore the squishy mess that only makes it harder to keep the adds in front, fire fire fire. The cannons do something like 900 dps, they outclass anything you can do, and if you're on them constantly at every second they're available very little damage needs to be done to the boss to win at the final set of cannons.
People not understanding how to spam-fire the cannons and ignoring the 2000 damage per hit AoE effect is why people fail.

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Wrong. Wroooong. WROOOONG. Ignore the squishy mess that only makes it harder to keep the adds in front, fire fire fire. The cannons do something like 900 dps, they outclass anything you can do, and if you're on them constantly at every second they're available very little damage needs to be done to the boss to win at the final set of cannons.
People not understanding how to spam-fire the cannons and ignoring the 2000 damage per hit AoE effect is why people fail.

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I'm not saying to ignore them. But we even had someone saying right here in this thread that the dragonkillers do 60% of Vishap's HP, which is a gross overestimation, and several other people indicating that a missed mechanic means automatic failure of the run, which is usually false.

You need good non-cannon/dragonkiller DPS to win this fight, period. The mechanics do NOT win it for you. I have been part of several groups where not enough DPS was focused on Vishap and the group ended in failure even though every cannon/dragonkiller was properly handled.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

SoF actually has something that most Trials don't. An NPC who tells you exactly what to do and when to do it. Sadly, she doesn't have a voice, so unless people stop to read what she says, her directions are falling on deaf... eyes?

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"Arrows and slings will not avail us against this foe!"

It implied that my normal attacks had very little meaning :(

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Originally Posted by Zanmato

Upon entering the Daily Roulette Trials and getting Steps of Faith, people almost always leave.

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Thanks for taking my concerns with the people who run away from this challenge before it even starts and running with it. You have my respect for your courage.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

SoF actually has something that most Trials don't. An NPC who tells you exactly what to do and when to do it. Sadly, she doesn't have a voice, so unless people stop to read what she says, her directions are falling on deaf... eyes?

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Nah! players turn around and tell the NPC "I play how I want to!" XD

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yeah, it couldn't possibly be because of everything difficult about turn 5 being a 1-shot mechanic that doesn't care how well geared you are, right?

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No, because if you have common sense, and coordination, they are easy to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Crap like this also makes the Elitist/Casual dichotomy far more apparent and creates more vitriol in the community as a result.

Content should have progressively gotten more challenging and required more attention from players.

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But still some players are able to clear coil. Even with the sudden ramp in difficulty, but imagine how the forums would go if they start adding tiered difficulty? Well, we will find out soon in 3.0 with Alexander (normal). Too many players don't want to be challenged, they want to be able to face roll derp through everything.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

But is it mechanically straight forward? It deviates so far from requiring 2 tanks and 4 dps.

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If you break down the mechanics, yes it is. group up adds at boss, shoot cannons, which we all have done with Castrum. tether it. which we have done with Cerberus in WoD, avoid AE, which we have done in every fight. One person fire the dragon killer at the right time. Rinse, repeat.

The only difference is the boss is constantly moving.

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No, because if you have common sense, and coordination, they are easy to avoid.

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Guess there's a lot of people playing this game that don't have it then, by your standards.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Guess there's a lot of people playing this game that don't have it then, by your standards.

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There are a lot of people they don't have any coordination and just bum rush trials(Garuda is a good example).

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Originally Posted by JimboTCB

I also don't get why Cape Westwind is in Trials and not Main Scenario

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originally it was. but it was moved to trials for reasons not made clear.

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Originally Posted by Shadray

You can't move it to main scenario how would that work? Main scenario is ilvl50? This is 90.

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why couldn't it main scenario is 8 man lvl50 and nothing says it can't go above that only that its content is lvl50 and above

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Originally Posted by Higashikata

That's brilliant, in the cutscene a piano falls from the sky killing vishap!

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how about the Dragon Killers launch Giant Fat Chocobos that take half of Vishap's health? :P

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Chains of Promethia. Yea. us XI players never had challenging content to get through our story mode... :P

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oh good ole chains, good story however I saw most the content of it as a "we aren't sure how to create a real challenge for you so here have level locked content that nerfs you and see how you do with that" and that bothered me a lot and it was if anyone paid attention more proof that the producer and most of the devs didn't actually play XI.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Guess there's a lot of people playing this game that don't have it then, by your standards.

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That is the unfortunate truth, yes. Otherwise there wouldn't be posts like this about Steps of Faith and there wouldn't be as many unable to grasp the mechanics of coil. Also there wouldn't be players who have no understanding of their job even at 50. eg. not using full thrust, spamming fire 3, not able to even maintain GL1, never mind 3. spamming cure 3. Jumping when ground based AE is firing off so they get hit, constantly. Not avoiding AE repeatadly. As an example when I was taking my SCH alt through steps, the WHM dies to being stomped on constantly. He didn't learn that standing where he was, he gets stomped on, newp, kept returning to the same position and splat!

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Guess there's a lot of people playing this game that don't have it then, by your standards.

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From your attitude, you seem to deny the existence of 'bads'. And by 'bads', I mean players who will not listen to others on how mechanics work, players who will not use their full rotations because they want to have 'fun', players who want to nerf things the second they find any difficulty. I assure you, they exist and they're the ones QQing the loudest about SoF.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

No, because if you have common sense, and coordination, they are easy to avoid.

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Guess there's a lot of people playing this game that don't have it then, by your standards.

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there are quite a lot of people who are either not very coordinated have no conmon sense or just don't give a damn so they don't care to learn so yeah there are quite a lot of people who are this way. and they very much outnumber the people who are coordinated, have common sense and give a damn.

also, if you could stop doing partial quotes that remove the player you are quoting that would be great.(see fixed it for you)

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

oh good ole chains, good story however I saw most the content of it as a "we aren't sure how to create a real challenge for you so here have level locked content that nerfs you and see how you do with that" .

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Really? I looked at it different.

It was level locked to help people who were leveling be able to experience the expansion. At level 30, you could do the first set of dungouns offered by the expansion. 40, the second, 50, the third, 60, the fourth, and then uncapped. It was a -great- system because I met some good palyers who were "Only level 30 in X job" who could go to Promyvion with us and help us clear.

It enabled a LOT of good players to be able to participate in things they wouldnt' get to see until level cap - like FFXIV is right now. There's the "Main story" sure, but that mostly caps out at 50 with all end-game content.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

If something that would be considered a joke of a fight on other MMOs is considered hard here, just how low does SE need to set the bar to not "compromise" the game experience?

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That's just it, there's no way of knowing what standard to set because the player base are human beings. What you and I and probably most of us have encountered in our various MMO history gave us the tools to adapt to things like this. After learning it, it actually appears easy to those with a trained set of eyes and have a concept of how these things play out. Newer gamers to MMOs maybe not so much. Some may view it as a challenge while others may see it to be hard.

With people always using the "time" excuse, it sort of forces Yoshida and Co.'s hand. Why that argument even exists in a form of entertainment designed to waste time is beyond me. I think people want to make time=difficulty and it won't happen. So when we get something with flavor that takes five minutes longer to do than Howling Eye Hard, people cry foul. On the other hand you have people with huge learning curves so it takes them longer to complete content with some degree of difficulty then they typically would. It's not entirely their fault; it could be they have trouble grasping simple instructions or maybe they were unable to retain information gathered via video or written guide. This mostly in turn causes them to give up or be more prone to do so.

It's all mentality, really. But as far as SE setting a standard it's difficult to say. I think they're giving us a taste of some things to come in Heavensward but if people can't get up to speed or just won't "try" it'll be for naught.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

That scares me though. Steps of Faith is an incredibly basic fight. If you want to compare it to anything, it could easily be compared to the airship battle in ICC, which was known as the "lootship" because of how easy it was. If something that would be considered a joke of a fight on other MMOs is considered hard here, just how low does SE need to set the bar to not "compromise" the game experience?

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It's a basic fight, with the understanding that it actually requires actual gameplay rather than rote facerolling.

You actually take many of the players who are set in roles, disrupt those roles, and make them do something else.

And many of these people cannot do that -- and that's why I fear for the availability of decent 3.0 players when we get that far.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

Officially saddened.

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It's official. SE now knows they don't have enough of a playerbase yet for Heavensward/3.0 content.

Blat.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

It's official. SE now knows they don't have enough of a playerbase yet for Heavensward/3.0 content.

Blat.

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Up till we know what the patch is atleast. Could very well just be an echo buff.

Honestly I don't consider it that hard of a fight, but since it is needed to continue to Heavensward I do see them doing something to make it easier...what exactly I'm not sure since its a mechanic heavy fight and I doubt they will change it to be more in line with the other trials in traditional tanking/dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

originally it was. but it was moved to trials for reasons not made clear.

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That's so terribly obvious it shouldn't need to be said. Think of how many people would ditch CM/prae when there's a 3rd option which takes about 1 minute to do.

The same reasoning should apply here; the time involved in Cape Westwind matches that of a trial, so it was moved there.

The time involved in training a party to get thru Steps of Faith is more in line with MSQ roulette, so it should be moved there.

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Originally Posted by Dragoon4life

I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that if you don't participate in new content the first week and weekend your screwed. I missed the Odin Fever and am now missing the Primal Mount Farm Fever. Everyone is now doing The Final Coils and nothing else. And it's very depressing because I'm stuck on T9 and no will help me. :'(

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This guy gets it, this is far too common, been there, done that, PF too often doesn't fix this.

And the suggestion to patch a rare minion or pony into it will quite often have someone yelling they want to minion or pony farm, not get you your ****ing clear.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

The time involved in training a party to get thru Steps of Faith is more in line with MSQ roulette, so it should be moved there.

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I actually agree with this, on the condition that they still add resets.
The MSQ roulette only has like 2 things on it, so it's less a roulette and more a coin flip. Adding Steps would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I'm not saying to ignore them. But we even had someone saying right here in this thread that the dragonkillers do 60% of Vishap's HP, which is a gross overestimation, and several other people indicating that a missed mechanic means automatic failure of the run, which is usually false.

You need good non-cannon/dragonkiller DPS to win this fight, period. The mechanics do NOT win it for you. I have been part of several groups where not enough DPS was focused on Vishap and the group ended in failure even though every cannon/dragonkiller was properly handled.

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No, you didn't. Seriously, my first win, we had 2 dps on cannons the whole damn fight, me (Monk) and a dragoon, one of us with Zeta and the better geared of the lot. The cannons and dragon killers landing every single hit on vishaps feet will do well over 70% of the damage needed, the rest coming in from short bursts between each gate and the LB 3 you should have nearer the end.

That turtle is incredibly annoying, yes, won't argue with that, but if it's being lured upto the bosses feet it will die soon enough under the cannonfire without any focus. It is of course handy if people stun it, but eh.

As for "one shot mechanics" none exist. Stand under his feet and you will die if under so much HP, but what the hell do you expect. You don't need to get to the side to land flank hits anyway, so this is a non-issue, though with skill you can dance around and never get hit. Landwaster is to be interrupted with the binds, or at worst, gotten out of with it's immense channel time. Then people need to get back on the cannons until the recast, which people often don't.

The mechanics win the fight. Your gear is not really at all important, it simply makes mistakes easier to suffer.

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If they gotta nerf it... I think I could live with the dragon killers doing a decent bit more damage. People would still have to do the fight correctly but have a little more freedom with mistakes. They do around 6% according to my recording. Bump it to 10 and I'd accept that.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I killed it in a FC group before for one person who needed, the boss died before he got to the 2nd dragonkiller. Technically you don't need any dragon killers to kill him if everyone is i130.

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Lol you keep saying "if everyones" I130, there are 70 people in my FC, of the 25 regulars who log in on say a weekly basis im not sure the required party of 8 I130s are ever online at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Lamentations

This guy gets it, this is far too common, been there, done that, PF too often doesn't fix this.

And the suggestion to patch a rare minion or pony into it will quite often have someone yelling they want to minion or pony farm, not get you your ****ing clear.

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Yeah is a huge issue in FFXIV , that if u miss the initial wave u are out , or have a static that help u ( i helped some of my static to do Steps since i did it on 1 day on DF)and i dont mind helping it takes 5 mins to do that trial.

Outside the first 2 days...no one bothers with main story dungeons and its a shame that its that way because this dungeons has no replay value , same goes for Fight on the Bridge fights , otuside a lucky trial roulette.....

And even then u have PF farming partys with no 100 soldiery , 1 fail = kick , no idea how to fix that :(

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No, you didn't. Seriously, my first win, we had 2 dps on cannons the whole damn fight, me (Monk) and a dragoon, one of us with Zeta and the better geared of the lot. The cannons and dragon killers landing every single hit on vishaps feet will do well over 70% of the damage needed, the rest coming in from short bursts between each gate and the LB 3 you should have nearer the end.

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Even perfectly executed, that's still a huge chunk of damage you have to do without mechanics, so I fail to see how you're refuting my point.

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As for "one shot mechanics" none exist. Stand under his feet and you will die if under so much HP, but what the hell do you expect.

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Body Slam = 1 shot to non-tanks
Sidewise Swipe = even if you dodge this, you can still get 1 shot by an exploding cannon
someone shoots 2nd/3rd dragonkiller at wrong time = whoops, you just killed your party

Uhh, yeah, there are 1 shot mechanics here.

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Originally Posted by Grekumah

Thanks for your feedback.

Adjustments to ease the Steps of Faith trial are in the works, and we'll be announcing more information about the how and when soon enough!

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There is nothing wrong with it, people are just giving up after one wipe, not giving others chance to learn it, some are even leaving as soon as it starts because it cuts into their "grind time".

There are still players learning this and those that have done it for story are not going to waste their time helping others, because that is what 90% of players dont like to do...

Don't make it any easier, just add something that will give players a reason to run it.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Even perfectly executed, that's still a huge chunk of damage you have to do without mechanics, so I fail to see how you're refuting my point.



Body Slam = 1 shot to non-tanks
Sidewise Swipe = even if you dodge this, you can still get 1 shot by an exploding cannon
someone shoots 2nd/3rd dragonkiller at wrong time = whoops, you just killed your party

Uhh, yeah, there are 1 shot mechanics here.

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Did you just equate misfiring DKs to a one shot mechanic? O.o

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Did you just equate misfiring DKs to a one shot mechanic? O.o

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Yes, when Vishap goes into the air to dodge it and crashes back down, I have been killed from full HP as a result of that.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Yes, when Vishap goes into the air to dodge it and crashes back down, I have been killed from full HP as a result of that.

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That isn't a one shot mechanic -____- Just because an attack has the possibility of bringing you from full HP to zero doesn't make it a 1 shot mechanic.

There is one thing i do find a bit of a bane actually, is when we die, specifically when healing, is that we are shoved straight in battle again as soon as we are revived with no chance of passive MP regen or even TP regen for the melees and certain skills might even be on CD, more so for tanks since they have no way to restore TP.

So, maybe give everyone half MP and TP for this trial, I think full MP/TP would get exploited.

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

There is one thing i do find a bit of a bane actually, is when we die, specifically when healing, is that we are shoved straight in battle again as soon as we are revived with no chance of passive MP regen or even TP regen for the melees and certain skills might even be on CD, more so for tanks since they have no way to restore TP.

So, maybe give everyone half MP and TP for this trial, I think full MP/TP would get exploited.

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Also if everyone dies, the mobs don't lose aggro
Not that it matters at that point since the fight is pretty much lost if everyone dies *hint hint SE* but being dead AND fighting off the hordes of mobs that killed you is like anti-fun.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Also if everyone dies, the mobs don't lose aggro
Not that it matters at that point since the fight is pretty much lost if everyone dies *hint hint SE* but being dead AND fighting off the hordes of mobs that killed you is like anti-fun.

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Ah yes, of course, in that case perhaps players could force a fail if they all dead at once then. This would bypass the loooong wait, waiting for it to fail automatically.

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Originally Posted by EZ5902

Ah yes, of course, in that case perhaps players could force a fail if they all dead at once then. This would bypass the loooong wait, waiting for it to fail automatically.

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My idea is if all 8 players are in the entry area or too far away from Visahp at the same time for more than 60 seconds, the encounter auto-fails.

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That isn't a one shot mechanic -____- Just because an attack has the possibility of bringing you from full HP to zero doesn't make it a 1 shot mechanic.

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Really? I'm curious then, how do you define 1-shot mechanics? Because whatever your definition is is surely strange to me.

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Originally Posted by Raeletta

Officially saddened.

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..because people other than your circle of friends has a shot at getting into ishgard and not wasting money on an expansion they can't play?

This isn't ONLY about players who are unwilling to learn.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Really? I'm curious then, how do you define 1-shot mechanics? Because whatever your definition is is surely strange to me.

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A oneshot mechanic takes you instantly to zero regardless of how much HP you have. If the amount of damage taken is a fixed value and it's possible to survive with enough gear, Stoneskin, Succor, Adlo, Storm's Path, Dragon Kick, tank LB, etc. then it's by definition not a oneshot mechanic.

Twister in T5 is a oneshot mechanic. It doesn't matter if you have 1 HP or 99,999 HP. If you get caught in it, you die instantly. There are plenty of other examples throughout Coil of similar mechanics.