Will you quit if this game becomes raid-centric?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Sigh, you just don't get it do you ..

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No I get it perfectly you don't have the items yet because you're with "muppets".

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Originally Posted by Jinko

FF11 had chest which you got your AF gear from which anyone could just walk in and press X (assuming they had started the quest), its hardly any different, besides we are talking low level anyway so whats the big deal, making a mountain out of a molehill much ?

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af quests were hardd. you either had to be skilled at solo or get friends to help usually. they created a challenge and took time to do. I wish this game had more stuff like that.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

(seen a lot of people talk about fighting them 10 times before getting what they wanted).

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*GASP* People had to wait MORE THAN 5 MINUTES TO GET WHAT THEY WANTED???? How could SE do this!

But what I meant was they give you a freckin' booboo prize just for killing them. Who cares if the fight is "hard" or "challenging" for some people. If you can go do it when ever you want the items it's "rare" and it's not an accomplishment to get it. It's work.

The NMs are harder then XI if you fight them at their level but it's not like level "was" hard before unlike XI.... Either way. The drops aren't "rare" at all. :/

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

Absolutely nothing, actually. Mun-Tuy and Nanawa are also "public dungeons." That's all it means.

In general what I meant was that they're adding content to the game that takes place in the open world. It's not endgame content, no, but the fact that they're not just instancing everything like some other games means there is hope for endgame open-world stuff too, in the future. That's all.

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Well. Yoshi even said himself that "rare items" (or what he considers to be rare I guess) will be more from instances. And with the new claiming system I just can't see anything "open world" being worth anything.

I just don't see it being more then a joke.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

af quests were hardd. you either had to be skilled at solo or get friends to help usually. they created a challenge and took time to do. I wish this game had more stuff like that.

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If anything in this game took more then 10 minutes I think people would just cry too hard.

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Originally Posted by Visch

I'll give you a comparison: 24 hour re-entry = busy for 6~month/a year, 5 minute re-entry = busy for a week. common sense HURRDURR

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10 hours in 1 week or 10 hours in 12 years is still only 10 hours of game play.

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This makes items rare and rewarding to get how? By letting everyone get them...? common sense HURRDURR

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If 5 percent of players can get an item due to low pop/drop rates the system is lazy.
If 5 percent of players can get an item due to high skill requirements the system is rewarding.

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First to kill them after they raised level cap to 90? "Dozens..? LOL". If you were then why are you crying so hard?

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He isn't crying. He is trying to explain to you that lazy systems are lazy. Even people that excel at lazy systems can admit improvement is needed.

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The results have already spoken...? Everyone got everything in a week and doesn't play.

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If "everyone" that has participated in the content is done with said content in a week then tuning is required. The Rank 50 dungeon was SE's first attempt in FFXIV at skillful content, more experience is needed. What is not needed is going back to a boring "HAHA! we tagged this EZ tank and spank NM so we get loot" system that some people seem to love so much.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

af quests were hardd. you either had to be skilled at solo or get friends to help usually. they created a challenge and took time to do. I wish this game had more stuff like that.

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Yea some of them were hard to get, but not all, hardest part was finding people willing to help you, hopefully SE will have something similar to the key drops so that people have to work towards opening a chest at least.

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Originally Posted by Visch

No I get it perfectly you don't have the items yet because you're with "muppets".

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I pity anyone who has to play with you regularly.

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Originally Posted by Visch

I'll give you a comparison: 24 hour re-entry = busy for 6~month/a year, 5 minute re-entry = busy for a week. common sense HURRDURR



This makes items rare and rewarding to get how? By letting everyone get them...? common sense HURRDURR




First to kill them after they raised level cap to 90? "Dozens..? LOL". If you were then why are you crying so hard?



The results have already spoken...? Everyone got everything in a week and doesn't play.

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I already explained WHY it is 5min re entry RIGHT NOW...and brought up common sense why it won't be this way forever...plus I already said, BACK THEN I was able to play 10h+ a day, cause I was just as much failing at life as you still do...now I can't do that anymore so of course I'm crying...majority of the world works and only got time for 2-6h each evening to do anything besides working/sleeping...

HURRDURR! You just fail man lmao, you're a relic from the past, get over it.

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Originally Posted by Visch

The NMs are harder then XI if you fight them at their level but it's not like level "was" hard before unlike XI.... Either way. The drops aren't "rare" at all. :/

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"Was" when 30k people were playing, yes. If they can fix the game up and make it appealing to people, those people who leveled up during that time will be a small minority. The rest will have to level up for a while before they can handle them.

Although, again, you're right about the stupid repop times. That's the main issue with all the content in the game right now really; you can just spam it all day long until you're done.

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Originally Posted by Visch

Well. Yoshi even said himself that "rare items" (or what he considers to be rare I guess) will be more from instances. And with the new claiming system I just can't see anything "open world" being worth anything.

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Going to be lazy here and request a link. I don't want to dig up that thread full of "is the magazine out yet? What does it say?" for 100 posts to try and find it.

All I've seen him say is that they "haven't forgotten" about non-instanced stuff, in one of the letters, although that's obviously pretty vague.

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Originally Posted by Commat

10 hours in 1 week or 10 hours in 12 years is still only 10 hours of game play.

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Ok so if they were trying to keep people busy why would they make it 5 minute re-entry...? MMOs make money off keeping subs. Not losing them because they beat the game.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

I already explained WHY it is 5min re entry RIGHT NOW...

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You said it was to keep people busy and it OBVIOUSLY ISN'T.

So great job!

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I pity anyone who has to play with you regularly.

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I pity you for playing with muppets. :)

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

Going to be lazy here and request a link. I don't want to dig up that thread full of "is the magazine out yet? What does it say?" for 100 posts to try and find it.

All I've seen him say is that they "haven't forgotten" about non-instanced stuff, in one of the letters, although that's obviously pretty vague.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er-2011/page25

Post #248

Yoshida: I think it’s good where other players can help and with later alliance battle where few parties get together we really think we don’t need the claiming system. Contents that drop rare items will be more instance based in future, and will also lessen where you have to fight over to claim.

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Originally Posted by Visch

I pity you for playing with muppets. :)

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I never said I did, I just said that it could be the case, I get the feeling you are a 12 year old boy who has nothing better to do than be aggressive and antagonistic to others.

Probably explains why you have all the time in the world to camp NM's and wait for instance timers to reset.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I never said I did, I just said that the could be the case, I get the feeling you are a 12 year old boy who has nothing better to do than be aggressive and antagonistic to others.

Probably explains why you have all the time in the world to camp NM's and wait for instance timers to reset.

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Personal insults. How typical of someone who hates NMs and is stuck with muppets for LS mates.

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/f/f3/Kermit4.jpg

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Originally Posted by Visch

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...er-2011/page25

Post #248

Yoshida: I think it’s good where other players can help and with later alliance battle where few parties get together we really think we don’t need the claiming system. Contents that drop rare items will be more instance based in future, and will also lessen where you have to fight over to claim.

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I'd prefer a scan to read it in Japanese, but that's good enough I guess. Kind of disappointing; I think the best game would be one that has instanced content and open world stuff, not one or the other.

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Originally Posted by Tsukino

I'd prefer a scan to read it in Japanese, but that's good enough I guess. Kind of disappointing; I think the best game would be one that has instanced content and open world stuff, not one or the other.

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I mean hey, look at surplus and all the junk that happened because of mistranslations during closed beta. Stuff changes but it's just disheartening to see something right from yoshi.

I swear most people don't know the difference between NMs and Ground Kings (HNMs), the latter which a lot of people universally hated to camp, the former most wanted to camp because it pushed their job further (for example, Mary's Horn was the only true way to enhance Lullaby duration outside of abilities.)

This thread seems highly speculative and i don't see the point of it.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I swear most people don't know the difference between NMs and Ground Kings (HNMs), the latter which a lot of people universally hated to camp, the former most wanted to camp because it pushed their job further (for example, Mary's Horn was the only true way to enhance Lullaby duration outside of abilities.)

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^ this - people complain that people talk about XI too much but in truth they're making valid points and the reader doesn't understand the terminology

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I swear most people don't know the difference between NMs and Ground Kings (HNMs), the latter which a lot of people universally hated to camp, the former most wanted to camp because it pushed their job further (for example, Mary's Horn was the only true way to enhance Lullaby duration outside of abilities.)

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And I swear your reading comprehension lacks just as much as Visch's common sense. We all know the difference between NMs and HNMs, but that's just terms, no law! Great Buffalo, Dodore, Mossy, Goblin etc ARE HNMS considered the amount of people needed to kill them and their focus on dropping Rank capped stuff. BUT they are called NMs in XIV and just cause they are named HNMs in XI doesn't mean they need to be named HNMs in XIV as well. Stuff like Roc, Simurgh etc were HNMs as well and they got implemented with Lvl cap at 55.

You seem to fail at getting that ALL we talk about are NMs(in comparison to HNMs in XI), we call them NMs though cause that's what they are called in XIV so far.

@Visch: Lol I just took the time to check your lodestone profile...I killed Batraal one day before you...and I don't even consider myself hardcore anymore compared to XI...so go figure MUPPET...and I won' even mention your ranked stuff compared to mine...

I don't remember this game being FFXI. It is not required to go in FFXI's direction to be a successful game. If I recall correctly, the devs don't want FFXIV to be the same exact game as FFXI. There are more ways of having an expanded world than areas like Sea or Sky, or open world HNM's.

EDIT: Also to put in there, who really liked sitting in one area for nearly 24 hours for an HNM who is just going to get claimed by a botter? I can't say I met anyone who truly liked this system, most people just tolerated it. Sky and Sea I can understand, but I don't recall sitting in Dragon's Aery 3/4 of my time playing the game called "exploring what is out there".

Lol, would I quit FFXIV if it became raid-centric? No. Do I think it will revolve around instanced dungeon raids completely? No. Do I think half of you who said you would quit would actually quit? No. Would anyone notice you left if you actually did? Hardly.

I think some people looked way too into the interview and need to seriously chill out. The dev team is most likely looking back on FFXI and considering what made it fun, and what made it obnoxious. Having to stand in the same spot for hours, not even playing the game, just waiting, coming back every hour or so during the window, for a small chance to even claim an HMN, let alone get the drop you want, can be a little annoying. Also, competing against RMT and bots can.... get a little out of hand. I posted something that actually happened to me while playing in FFXI in another, similar thread, and I will post it again.

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Originally Posted by Nikita

Kind of reminds me of when I was camping King Arthro with my LS. Some RMT hacking d-bag pulled 25 mobs through a wall with a teleport hack so we couldn't target KA when he spawned. A non-RMT shell claimed him, though. As they started to get their asses kicked by him, they CALLED FOR HELP and the RMT proceeded to kill him. Yes please to more instanced content!

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When you have the entire server competing for a single monster, that is what happens. That is what will happen unless they improve upon the old system. I love open world content, I also like instanced events, and I would like to see a healthy mix of both, but please, fix some of the systems from FFXI at least.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

And I swear your reading comprehension lacks just as much as Visch's common sense. We all know the difference between NMs and HNMs, but that's just terms, no law! Great Buffalo, Dodore, Mossy, Goblin etc ARE HNMS considered the amount of people needed to kill them and their focus on dropping Rank capped stuff. BUT they are called NMs in XIV and just cause they are named HNMs in XI doesn't mean they need to be named HNMs in XIV as well. Stuff like Roc, Simurgh etc were HNMs as well and they got implemented with Lvl cap at 55.

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For someone to talk about one's reading comprehension you sure seem to lack it yourself, and here's why:

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BUT they are called NMs in XIV and just cause they are named HNMs in XI doesn't mean they need to be named HNMs in XIV as well.

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Who said they needed to be named HNMs? I certainly didn't. Also, a lot of the Abyssea NMs that drop good stuff can take quite a bit of people as well and they aren't HNMs, some can be low manned, but in generally you're with at least 8 people, so no, before you go and tell someone else they have bad reading comprehension you should think about your own especially when people bring up that "spending hours in dragon's aery" clearly mean they're confusing what people mean by NM camping as you don't regularly camp Fafnir/Nidhogg (even now you can just spawn them with an item) which as I said:

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I swear most people don't know the difference between NMs and Ground Kings (HNMs), the latter which a lot of people universally hated to camp

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Select few actually liked to camp HNMs. I certainly didn't. Oh and by the way, I've seen (and done) the 'HNMs' in FFXIV with few people, especially post update where SE adjusted them, if we're calling these comparable to HNMs the Ogre Boss would be more close to an HNM than any of the world spawns currently strength wise.

No I will not continue to play. I hatea WoW patches for a reason. I love FFXI patches for a reason. Diversification of content or they can piss off.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

most other MMOs are raid-centric yes. And i don't really like that. But i'd rather play a raid-centric game with story-based raids that are up to par to current standards than a raid-centric game where all you do is run through a cave and kill 2 bosses. The job system won't be done for about half a year so that means they can't really create a "great" raid for at least 6 months. And from whats been released so far i don't have overly high expectations.

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Again... where did you get the idea that the job system won't be done for another 6 months? From letter X it clearly says it's part of the changes that are due for the end of summer and i don't know where you live but here in Canada it's pretty much our last summer month.

Also not sure if SE calls these "RAIDS" ... i think all i've seen was the word "dungeon" being used and these are pretty much that... Dungeons. Every MMORPG needs these.. it's at the core of an RPG game. Have you ever played an RPG that had no dungeons? Cuz that's all there is and every FF game is centered around that.

Now if you wanna talk about Raids.... from my own experience Raids are very large dungeons that are way more difficult and which require multiple parties to join forces in order to complete them. We don't have any Raids in FFXIV yet and yes you are right when you say we won't have one for months and that's understandable. Raids require a lot more effort and coordination from parties then dungeons do and with the battle system being incomplete we can't have Raids.

So bottom line, FFXIV like any other MMORPG will be centered a lot around Dungeons and Raids but that doesn't stop them from giving you NM or HNM, PVP or any other option to keep you entertained and provide you with means to acquire some rare loot. WOW is so succesfull because it is very good a pleasing a lot of different type of players. PVE players got Raids and dungeons, pple that like PVP have the Arenas and Battlegrounds. Nothing is preventing SE and FFXIV from doing the same and having something for everyone.

So now stop with the treats and trying to show SE that pple will quit FFXIV if it's not FFXI-2 and sit back while the dev team does their job.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...805-20-2011%29

just going to throw this out there, by making overworld NMs not be claim based, they can, if executed properly actually make the overworld much more engaging then it is now, and than it was in ffxi. A great epic battle that anyone can contribute too, is over all a more entertaining system, and is more likely to make people enjoy the overworld more. Imagine you walk over and see king behemoth attacking a settlement, 6 people are fighting him, imagine you can actually jump in and get credit.
Imagine the type of mechanics you can develop for, when you know everyone can join in. They mentioned monsters summoning other monsters depending on how the people they are fighting are.

Imagine now, that this, king behemoth was attacking the settlement, suddenly 21 people join in to try to smash him. Oh man he was easy mode with 30 people. but right as he dies he summons god behemoth who only comes out if 35 or more people of certain levels was attacking KB.

there is a great amount of very good and interesting possibilities to a games overworld without a rigid claiming system, and you will, and may have already seen peices of this in other games. Whether they execute it well is one story, but in and of itself a no claim system is not inherently evil.

And if they do some type of best player gets drop boost or something similar, you will actually be competing while at the same time working together. There is many ways to go about this. you should probably give suggestions on how to implement some of these things, and hope that they listen

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

So now stop with the treats and trying to show SE that pple will quit FFXIV if it's not FFXI-2 and sit back while the dev team does their job.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...805-20-2011%29

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You really need to get over your FFXI-2 paranoia, they're already incorporating features that were present in XI in the exact same concepts as well.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You really need to get over your FFXI-2 paranoia, they're already incorporating features that were present in XI in the exact same concepts as well.

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This is what I have to say to you.

After the maintenance, following requirements must be fulfilled to log in to the forums.

Possess Square Enix account with an active service account on FINAL FANTASY XIV
Have logged in to FINAL FANTASY XIV in the last 30 days (additional requirement)

Stop telling people what to do about a game you don't even play and go back to core.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

You really need to get over your FFXI-2 paranoia, they're already incorporating features that were present in XI in the exact same concepts as well.

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And i have nothing against that. It's is ok that take good features from another game and incorporate them. I'm against pple that want EVERYTHING from FFXI, they want this to play, to feel and be FFXI but with better graphics. And if they don't get that or if the game turns out to look like another MMORPG that is not FFXI they start threatening to quit and take all the FFXI fanboys with them.

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Originally Posted by Visch

This is what I have to say to you.

After the maintenance, following requirements must be fulfilled to log in to the forums.

Possess Square Enix account with an active service account on FINAL FANTASY XIV
Have logged in to FINAL FANTASY XIV in the last 30 days (additional requirement)

Stop telling people what to do about a game you don't even play and go back to core.

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A game I don't play huh? Oh you mean the fact I used my SE account for posting that's linked with my FFXI account which had my beta character for XIV for the bonus item?

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And i have nothing against that. It's is ok that take good features from another game and incorporate them. I'm against pple that want EVERYTHING from FFXI, they want this to play, to feel and be FFXI but with better graphics. And if they don't get that or if the game turns out to look like another MMORPG that is not FFXI they start threatening to quit and take all the FFXI fanboys with them.

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I've honestly never seen anyone say they want an exact copy of FFXI considering most people agreed they thought SE would take the good from XI and make it better, not throw everything away and release a largely unfinished game that didn't even have the basics that XI even had after 1 update in 2002.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

A game I don't play huh? Oh you mean the fact I used my SE account for posting that's linked with my FFXI account which had my beta character for XIV for the bonus item?

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I think he said that because when clicking your profile it shows all your characters and ranks and your not that more advanced then me and i honestly never ever play. I'm waiting for the game to be more enjoyable so i'll start at 1.19 or even 1.20.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

I've honestly never seen anyone say they want an exact copy of FFXI considering most people agreed they thought SE would take the good from XI and make it better, not throw everything away and release a largely unfinished game that didn't even have the basics that XI even had after 1 update in 2002.

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Take a 2nd look, there's a ton of threads asking for a copy and paste of FFXI and they claim this is what will save FFXIV. You have to keep in mind that FFXIV is not a sequel nor a replacement for FFXI. Both games are meant to co-exist and i think that the similarities the games have are because SE had the intention of making both games playable together... as in having FFXI and FFXIV players play together in some way. SE mentioned that before they announced FFXIV but that feature obviously went down the toilet.

The only thing that FFXIV should have taken from FFXI is the 8 years of MMO experience they acquired and for some reason they didn't do that. I think that just by looking at that FFXI and FFXIV play together feature, the 2005 footage... to me it looks like they were way too ambitious and ended up having to scrap a lot of their work and start over.

Take some good things from FFXI or rather inspire yourself from these features but don't turn the damn game into a sequel or a clone because then what's the purpose of keeping both games running?

I actually like the raid approach. I've played FFXI and I've played WoW. Now I've always been bothered by FFXI's approach with NMs and drops that can be an anyone on the server can claim type of fight, also adding in that some of these NMs carry a heavy respawn timer with them.

Raids are really another form of challenging content without the competition from an outside source. At this point you're only against other members in your group concerning the rights to certain pieces. You're only removing that influence but there's still the difficulty of the challenge so you still have your rights to harder to obtain gear.

"But oh, boo hoo, I like being a special snowflake cause my group claimed it and I got the super special drop and you didn't and you may never see it because it takes forever to respawn and then my group will claim it from you AGAIN!" There are other ways you can make equipment rare. Let's move away from the FFXI approach where someone has to get on at 4 AM in the morning on their time just so they can get that gear from a 20 hour world pop NM or risk the wrath of your linkshell because your life (and sleep) is more important.

The only thing is that SE needs to be more creative in the future when they think up of content to put in. The first 2 raids are okay, but who wants to have everything follow "Do X or Y, defeat Z and beat the clock in the process"?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

A game I don't play huh? Oh you mean the fact I used my SE account for posting that's linked with my FFXI account which had my beta character for XIV for the bonus item?



I've honestly never seen anyone say they want an exact copy of FFXI considering most people agreed they thought SE would take the good from XI and make it better, not throw everything away and release a largely unfinished game that didn't even have the basics that XI even had after 1 update in 2002.

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yeah honestly, a LOT of people want this to become a ffxi clone. While i think ffxi has merit i really don't think this game should just -copy- it. I think it should use the successful concepts in it.

if this claim system is gonna create things like campaign battles or warhammer pq's or gw2 style battles then i'm all for it. didn't think of it that way, that everyone fights the battles together that show up, but i don't think it will mostly be like this in ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by weeble

if this claim system is gonna create things like campaign battles or warhammer pq's or gw2 style battles then i'm all for it. didn't think of it that way, that everyone fights the battles together that show up, but i don't think it will mostly be like this in ffxiv.

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they shouldn't need this claim system for that since they were able to do stuff like it in FFXIV without a new claim system.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

For someone to talk about one's reading comprehension you sure seem to lack it yourself, and here's why:



Who said they needed to be named HNMs? I certainly didn't. Also, a lot of the Abyssea NMs that drop good stuff can take quite a bit of people as well and they aren't HNMs, some can be low manned, but in generally you're with at least 8 people, so no, before you go and tell someone else they have bad reading comprehension you should think about your own especially when people bring up that "spending hours in dragon's aery" clearly mean they're confusing what people mean by NM camping as you don't regularly camp Fafnir/Nidhogg (even now you can just spawn them with an item) which as I said:



Select few actually liked to camp HNMs. I certainly didn't. Oh and by the way, I've seen (and done) the 'HNMs' in FFXIV with few people, especially post update where SE adjusted them, if we're calling these comparable to HNMs the Ogre Boss would be more close to an HNM than any of the world spawns currently strength wise.

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What is it you don't get? I'm not talking about the stupid stuff like Phaia, Sirocco or anything...these are NMs...they were meant to be NMs(comparable to regular NMs in XI).

Buffalo, Dodore, Ogre, Batraal etc would be HNMs in FFXI terms, but still they are called NMs, that's what I was getting at. You accused people that they don't know what they are talking about when all people talked about were NMs(THOSE that are considered endgame NMs, so HNMs in XI terms)...nobody ever talked about stupid low rank BS NMs in XIV...this thread is about "raid centric" so a monkey could tell its about endgame NMs only...

PS: Ground Kings were the name for Aspi, KB and Nidhogg only...not for all HNMs...

mmm kay...

I guess that I'll play some while you guys are discussing about FFXI-2 clone nonsense.