So resetting's against the rules now?

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

It was designed poorly.....

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It was designed poorly we can agree on that but what you and near everyone on this thread are describing is something that has not been seen by me or any of the 4 other people I talk to here on Ramuh. The degree of community on this server even towards what they call, foreigners like me, makes me want to go buy rosetta stone and learn the language. . .just play this game proper as sad as that sounds lol. . .

Frankly, I find it sad that our community has to have some sort of police state situation and I'd like to think that if this behavior isn't occuring on other Servers then it might not get changed for a long time if not ever.

The question that spawned this thread is only another indication of how the hunt system is utterly flawed and misconceived. There was never any need to have this debate if Square Enix simply didn't lay this turd in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

The GM said the intent is what matters, and if someone resets for the purpose of making others not get seals (he specifically mentioned hunts with large kill mechanics and petrification) then that would be griefing. Resetting so everyone can get seals =/= griefing but he said people are allowed to report if they feel it was and they will investigate and decide if the intent was malicious or not. Maybe you should go back and read.

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Allow me to address this, since it became a bit of a topic for discussion.

Both of these incidents could be reported for a grief tactics violation, and a GM would investigate. Despite the intent to make sure more people could participate in the latter example, a GM could still determine this to be a violation of the rules, since you are also intending to impact the progress made by others who may be fighting the hunt mark. The GM will determine the final intent of the action that was taken. If this was determined to be a violation, regardless of one's stated intent, I would expect any GM to issue an account action against the person who committed the grief tactics violation.

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Originally Posted by KahnyaRedx

"In FFXI they had a claim system so one group got credit, people cried about it. In FFXIV they implement a system where everyone can get credit, people still cry about it." That about sums up my thoughts on why the devs listened, and now don't feel like changing anything. Because people, regardless, will continue to cry about it.

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Or, gee..... they could have put in a system where everyone gets credit like they do for FATES....... dont think I ever saw people bitching about that in endless threads to how FATES give out seals.

By putting in a system that's a "first come first serve", I stand by my griefing comment. It encourages the larger hunt packs to go in and reset mobs so they get it and everyone else is left out even if they did get there first.

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

GM Knowledge Hammer

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I think this thread is a wrap.

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

It encourages the larger hunt packs to go in and reset mobs so they get it and everyone else is left out even if they did get there first.

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That tactic is considered griefing, and I don't condone it. But I don't think it's encouraged. If there are enough people there (many warriors) it's stopped pretty quickly. I can say I holmgang immediately if it starts to move a lot.

I don't think resetting is encouraged though, most people who are already there or have hate don't typically reset mobs because they may not get full credit. It's the trolls that reset, and they should be reported for this and GM will handle it.

P.S. I like this GM Enkrateia person :)

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Allow me to address this, since it became a bit of a topic for discussion.

Both of these incidents could be reported for a grief tactics violation, and a GM would investigate. Despite the intent to make sure more people could participate in the latter example, a GM could still determine this to be a violation of the rules, since you are also intending to impact the progress made by others who may be fighting the hunt mark. The GM will determine the final intent of the action that was taken. If this was determined to be a violation, regardless of one's stated intent, I would expect any GM to issue an account action against the person who committed the grief tactics violation.

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Good, people who reset them seem to think they are some self righteous player who is assisting others. Well, you're not! You're taking from other players. Hunts are not designed for the entire server and that's why B marks would die in seconds because there are so many people there.

Pulling "early" is also complete BS. There is no way to pull early because nobody can tell you when you have to or should pull, it's up to the discretion of the players to do it when they see fit because they are paying for this game as much as anyone else and shouldn't endure the harassment of players with abuse in /tell or /shout chat.

Now, here's where I will seem hypocritical. I won't deny I have reset one or two mobs. Although I won't deny I did it for the thought of my own party and FC members and not with consideration to those players shouting for a reset. But for the last few days, if a mob has been pulled, that's it. Good luck to you even if you are my party member or FC. I'll even do my best to prevent resets because of this grief tactic.

Play how you want, not how other players expect you to.

If the game allows it, there's no "rules". I get annoyed by people who cry about pulling early, because no one owns the mark. Anyone can pull it whether they're the first to find it or they arrived after everyone else. Shouting pulling times is only inviting someone to "pull early" anyway, and honestly, if you have enough people there, just pull the damn thing. If you have to wait till 9:15 for some late arrivals, might as well wait till 10:00 for even more. As for resetting, like I said, if the game allows it, there's no rule against it. Some may say it's discourteous, but then I could argue it's discourteous to not wait for another 100 people to arrive when you pulled the mob when your party was all there.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

As for resetting, like I said, if the game allows it, there's no rule against it.

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GM seems to disagree with your "logic" there.....

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Allow me to address this, since it became a bit of a topic for discussion.

Both of these incidents could be reported for a grief tactics violation, and a GM would investigate. Despite the intent to make sure more people could participate in the latter example, a GM could still determine this to be a violation of the rules, since you are also intending to impact the progress made by others who may be fighting the hunt mark. The GM will determine the final intent of the action that was taken. If this was determined to be a violation, regardless of one's stated intent, I would expect any GM to issue an account action against the person who committed the grief tactics violation.

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I think its a matter of respect.

reseting shows no respect for those who already fighting. (they are fighting because its a quest? daily, weekly?)
pulling shows no respect to those who are waiting. (they are waiting because any reasons? door, phone?)

Either way, best solution is to report and a GM needs to look into it because YOU can not tell how long they were waiting or for what reason, same as YOU can not tell if they have a quest or not...
At least we show them with reporting that they ned to fix the system and where the problems are!

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

Or, gee..... they could have put in a system where everyone gets credit like they do for FATES....... dont think I ever saw people bitching about that in endless threads to how FATES give out seals.

By putting in a system that's a "first come first serve", I stand by my griefing comment. It encourages the larger hunt packs to go in and reset mobs so they get it and everyone else is left out even if they did get there first.

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You do get three tiers of rewards for elite marks, just like you do for fates.
Resetting have a tendency to screw over the people that were there first because they no longer get "gold" on the mark, if they get anything at all.
A-rank "bronze" is 2 AS
A-rank "silver" is 12 AS
A-rank "gold" is 20 AS
(I forget the Myth and Sold for the three tiers of rewards)

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

You do get three tiers of rewards for elite marks, just like you do for fates.
Resetting have a tendency to screw over the people that were there first because they no longer get "gold" on the mark, if they get anything at all.
A-rank "bronze" is 2 AS
A-rank "silver" is 12 AS
A-rank "gold" is 20 AS
(I forget the Myth and Sold for the three tiers of rewards)

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While true, the difference is that on a Fate, you can get there with 15 seconds left and with enough burst dps get gold.

On a hunt target, if you arent there within the first 15 seconds, you'll get last place or nothing most times, even with a ton of burst dps.

At this point, the damage is done, and honestly, I fear what SE is going to possibly do to "balance" things.

Sigh

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

On a hunt target, if you arent there within the first 15 seconds, you'll get last place or nothing most times, even with a ton of burst dps.

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That's because it's based on enmity gained. Burst DPS won't gain the same enmity a warrior running in with 15 seconds left and using Infuriate, Unchained, Berserk, and running their main hate rotation. If a party of 2 warriors can get full credit on an A rank with over 200 people there, I don't see what the issue is. Though we were there from the beginning, there was only 2 of in party as warrior and the mob died in less than 30 seconds. But we still managed to get the full 20 seals, because the enmity is strong with warrior.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

I'm not happy about the fact that what you described is not a "Hunt", or even an NM in the traditional sense, but that's how it's going to be. Severely disappointing.

The nugget of hope is that you don't mention B's. It's pretty much assumed you kill those if you find em, they don't give enough to matter on a grand scale.

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Right, I did omit to mention B ranks for that exact reason. Organizational effort to reward ratio and all...

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

While true, the difference is that on a Fate, you can get there with 15 seconds left and with enough burst dps get gold.

On a hunt target, if you arent there within the first 15 seconds, you'll get last place or nothing most times, even with a ton of burst dps.

At this point, the damage is done, and honestly, I fear what SE is going to possibly do to "balance" things.

Sigh

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The real difference is that people don't zerg fates like they do hunts. Less people means it's much easier for any given person or group to make the cut.

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Originally Posted by KahnyaRedx

If a party of 2 warriors can get full credit on an A rank with over 200 people there, I don't see what the issue is. .

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So your answer is, be a warrior? That's it guys, we can close the thread. Kahnya just fixed hunts for everyone!

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Originally Posted by Teirshin

GM seems to disagree with your "logic" there.....

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And I disagree with the GM. Penalizing players for doing things that the game allows is simply wrong. If you don't want players resetting mobs, you simply take away the mobs' zones. The reason why people reset is because they want their team to be there for the kill, just as with everyone who's already there. Resets keep happening because A) they're claimable by everyone and B) don't have nearly enough HP for everyone to attack it and get full credit. Considering people spend hours upon hours doing these hunts, many not getting full credit or even making it to the mob before it dies, people are having to do what they can to adapt to a broken system until SE decides to fix it.

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Originally Posted by JustPlainLucas

And I disagree with the GM. Penalizing players for doing things that the game allows is simply wrong. If you don't want players resetting mobs, you simply take away the mobs' zones. The reason why people reset is because they want their team to be there for the kill, just as with everyone who's already there. Resets keep happening because A) they're claimable by everyone and B) don't have nearly enough HP for everyone to attack it and get full credit. Considering people spend hours upon hours doing these hunts, many not getting full credit or even making it to the mob before it dies, people are having to do what they can to adapt to a broken system until SE decides to fix it.

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Whether you agree or disagree about the rule it doesn't mean "there is no rule", not everyone is supposed to like the rules, but you have to follow them anyways.

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

The real fix to this dilemma (for now) is to simply be considerate toward your fellow gamers.

If you're all alone (or with a couple friends) and nobody's coming, go ahead and pull. If you're at an elite mark with a group and lots of other people are clearly on the way, show some courtesy and wait a bit before pulling.

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

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But you don't get it. What you're saying about being considerate, goes AGAINST how the system is supposed to work. People being "considerate" is why the system isn't working properly in the first place. The funny part to me, is people wanted open world content like this. Yet many of them, back when they asked, didn't truly understand that THIS is what would happen.

The system was designed to work with smaller groups, even solo players for B ranks. And at least one reason for that is it's far too expensive to design servers around the load the players are placing on them. Hence the issues with vanishing and such. There ARE solutions to allow that many people in one spot, but I can bet many players would not like it. Imagine if EVE's TIDI was implemented here, how many players do you think would like it? Since it would affect the entire zone mind you.

Not to mention, when you say don't be selfish, it goes both ways. Saying people should be considerate and wait, is selfish of you.

It's like using a product in a way it wasn't intended to be used, then expecting to still get support for it. No, you did it "wrong" so you deal with the consequences, not the people who use it right. Because doing it wrong here, is actually affecting those who choose to do it right.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

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I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

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I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing

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Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

Do you really need something to be an official rule to make it right or wrong? (Of course not... that's kind of a loaded question.)

Point is, you shouldn't need a written rule to prevent you from being inconsiderate... it's not hard to do (or know) what's right.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

Do you really need something to be an official rule to make it right or wrong?

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Except it's different here. An unclaimed mob, is just that unclaimed. You standing there waiting gives you no rights to that mob. If someone else comes in and starts fighting, that's your loss.

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Except it's different here. An unclaimed mob, is just that unclaimed. You standing there waiting gives you no rights to that mob. If someone else comes in and starts fighting, that's your loss.

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Right... just like at the grocery store, if there's a spot right in front of you, someone could step in and fill it. Your loss.

It's still a d*** move.

I'm not arguing that people don't have rights to unclaimed mobs. I'm just saying that we're arguing about a problem we're creating for ourselves by not being more considerate toward others.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Right... just like at the grocery store, if there's a spot right in front of you, someone could step in and fill it. Your loss.

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Still not the same. The proper comparison would not be the line. It would be there's an empty cashier waiting for a customer, you see it but are standing away and waiting for a family member to arrive. Someone else comes in, sees the cashier available and jumps in. You waited, your loss.

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Still not the same.

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You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Rather than arguing about which type of griefing has the moral high ground, people should just respect each other and be considerate. Don't be selfish, and most of this problem solves itself.

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There is no moral high ground to argue about because one situation (attacking an unengaged mob in the field) is clearly not griefing, while the other situation (deliberately resetting the fight on a mob that's already engaged) is. It's apples and oranges. Is it nice for people to wait? Absolutely. Are they obligated to do so? Absolutely not. Seriously, sometimes you don't want to see a mob zerged down in 30 seconds. Sometimes it's fun for players to try to tackle a B rank or even an A rank with a smaller party just to see if they're up to the challenge. There's nothing wrong about that behavior. The mobs will respawn again in an hour or in 3-5 hours.

Even if there *was* moral high ground, it would be 100% irrelevant. A GM has already made that clear.

I'm still thinking that Allied Seals vending machine in town is a perfectly viable idea, cause that seems to be how a lot of people treat the hunt system anyway. It's not a hunt so much as it is a server-wide seek and destroy monopolized by the zerg horde. God help you if you find something and choose not to call the horde, because they will simply try to wrest it away from you. How is that considerate and respectful?

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God help you if you find something and choose not to call the horde, because they will simply try to wrest it away from you. Does that not strike you as selfish behavior in and of itself?

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Actually, this is an interesting concept... because a lot of people in this thread seem to feel that it's "soloers against the horde," when in reality, most of the "early pulls" aren't from soloers, but people in the horde who are abusing intel from their linkshells.

Basically, the horde isn't out to get you. This is just a handful of people who get their rocks off by standing on others to get ahead. The horde is just as sick of them as you are.

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Is it nice for people to wait? Absolutely. Are they obligated to do so? Absolutely not.

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YES YES YES YES. This is ALL I'm saying, but people seem so resistant to the idea of being nice. It's baffling.

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Seriously, sometimes you don't want to see a mob zerged down in 30 seconds. Sometimes it's fun for players to try to tackle a B rank or even an A rank with a smaller party just to see if they're up to the challenge. There's nothing wrong about that behavior.

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YES YES YES YES!!!! I agree! I even said this very thing like... three posts ago!

I honestly don't understand where this general reluctance to play nice comes from, even among people who -- if I only read parts of their posts -- would seem to want to advocate playing nice.

I also don't understand the line of thinking that if there's no rule against something, it can't possibly be bad, and therefore we should just act like it's fine... like cutting in line, or laughing at a crippled person, or taking the last piece of birthday cake at the office when you know others haven't eaten yet... all things that don't break any rules whatsoever, yet would be considered by most as "wrong."

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

I'm still waiting to see a GM say that not waiting for the sheep mob to zerg the mark is griefing. It is only griefing in the minds of people like you, not in the ToS, you know the rules you agree to when you start playing.

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In general, any monster in the world that is able to be attacked can be attacked at any time. There is no user agreement section that details the proper time to wait before attacking a hunt mark, at this time. That being said, actions determined to be taken with the intent of disrupting the game play of others can be reported as a grief tactic. This disruption applies to the people actually at the hunt mark, and convoluting the "disruption" to apply because not enough people were present for you to get full credit misses the actual impact of the disruption. And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Point is, you shouldn't need a written rule to prevent you from being inconsiderate... it's not hard to do (or know) what's right.

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You also act like I owe something to these big hordes of people, the truth is I refuse to join hunt shells. One of the first made on my server was made by a person I already had on my blacklist, because he is just an outright prick. There are a few on the server now, but still they all communicate with each other, in the beginning there were people using the radar app, I didn't want to be a part of grouping with those types of people, and benefiting from cheaters, I believe you can tell a lot about people by the ones they choose to be around. Since I wasn't part of the horde, I can't tell you how many times I had found marks, called out to my FC, other shells, and friends to make my own group, only to have it reset by the sheep mob, I can't tell you, but the GMs can because everyone time it was reported. I owe nothing to horde of d-bags, they have griefed me numerous times in the past, they don't send me tells telling me where marks are, so why should my thought process even include helping these people out?

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Originally Posted by Thayos

You're being way too literal.

You seemed to say that something can't be called "griefing" unless there's a rule in place to say it is. I'm saying that's a load of crap.

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Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything. Same thing with the mob, you were standing around and not claiming it. No griefing is involved. The fault lies with you and you alone for waiting.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

YES YES YES YES. This is ALL I'm saying, but people seem so resistant to the idea of being nice. It's baffling.

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Is it though? Ever think that maybe people are resistant to you basically calling them inconsiderate and such things? Being nice is subjective. For me, waiting to encourage a mob that the server cannot normally handle, just for a B rank, is inconsiderate of both the person waiting and the people expecting to get there and get credit.

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You also act like I owe something to these big hordes of people, the truth is I refuse to join hunt shells.

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I read your whole post, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But why would you want to cause anguish to people who had nothing to do with the folks who griefed you? I don't think anyone wins when people start lashing out at others, especially in an MMO where so many fun-seeking people get caught in the crossfire.

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Yet i'm not. If the person takes the cashier in my example, are they griefing you? You were just standing there, never went up to the cashier or anything.

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What? You think if someone cuts in front of you in a line you're clearly in, then it's your fault for not standing close enough to the person in front of you? Isn't that kind of blaming the victim? Or am I grossly misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

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Ever think that maybe people are resistant to you basically calling them inconsiderate and such things?

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I haven't singled out any one person for being inconsiderate... there are only certain people arguing with my simple request.

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I think it is ridiculous to wait for 100 people to gang up on a B rank.

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I agree, and the vast majority of people in my hunt linkshells also don't care about missing B ranks. B ranks are pretty much considered fair game... people obviously wait when they can, but if one gets pulled early, people basically shrug and move on. It's just not always obvious, because all it takes is two people to start yelling in /shout to make things look crazy.

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate.

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I think it is ridiculous to wait for 100 people to gang up on a B rank. I know many people that are being waitied on for As and S's were standing in town, or crafting or something, and not out actually hunting, I know many times an S rank spawned and folks dropped out of dungeon groups so they could go kill it, I know that none of that stuff is against the rules, but if you are the type of player that does any of that, or supports it by sitting around waiting on them, then you wouldn't be the type of person I would want to group with.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

I read your whole post, and I'm sorry that happened to you. But why would you want to cause anguish to people who had nothing to do with the folks who griefed you?

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The people in the hunt shells benefit from those that did grief me, if you read the entire post you would see that I said you can tell a lot about people by the people they choose to be around, you choose to be parts of those shells, and to benefit from it when they grief others, so I don't think any more of you than I do those that do the griefing. You and I also have very different definitions of anguish, I don't consider missing one mark anguish, especially if you are in one of those groups that kills nonstop for hours. It's not that I am being mean to the folks that aren't there if I do pull a mark, it's I owe no loyalty to them. If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

What? You think if someone cuts in front of you in a line you're clearly in, then it's your fault for not standing close enough to the person in front of you? Isn't that kind of blaming the victim? Or am I grossly misunderstanding the point you're trying to make?

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I'm telling you that the line analogy doesn't fit. When you sit near a Hunt Mark, not engaged, there is no line. You're just standing there, you're not waiting for someone to finish. The analogy I supplied fits much better. Again, there is no line. The unengaged hunt mob is a cashier who has no current customer and isn't doing anything.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

I haven't singled out any one person for being inconsiderate... there are only certain people arguing with my simple request.

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By saying you feel people should be considerate and wait for others, means you feel that people who don't and just charge in are inconsiderate.

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As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

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Also, to the lurking GM, thanks for your most recent post. I hope you understand that I'm not trying to say that early pulling is against the rules, because it's not. But I'm glad to see that you, as a player, seem to understand the importance of social norms as well as actual rules.

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I'm telling you that the line analogy doesn't fit.

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A WOOOOOSH may be in order.... but I'm hopeful that you really do understand what I'm saying, and you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of forum madness.

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means you feel that people who don't and just charge in are inconsiderate.

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It's situational, but yes, this is often the case.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

A WOOOOOSH may be in order.... but I'm hopeful that you really do understand what I'm saying, and you're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of forum madness.

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No, i'm saying your analogy is flat out wrong and does not fit. I understand it, and I understand it does not fit in the slightest. So, ask yourself this. What's the difference between these two?

A. Customer A is standing in line behind Customer C at the checkout. Customer B notices there's some space and cuts in front of Customer A.

B. Customer A is standing near a checkout line that has no current customers. Customer A is not checking out, but waiting. Customer B sees the checkout is currently free and uses it.

A is what you've been trying to say, and does not match with what happens in game, which is why this line

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Originally Posted by Thayos

Really? If you were waiting in line at the grocery store and someone cut in front of you, that's not against the law, but I'm pretty sure it's griefing. I could come up with endless examples to show the flaw in your logic.

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Does not apply in the slightest. There was no cutting in line. You never engaged the mob. You waited of your own discretion and the other player saw the unclaimed mark and took the opportunity to claim it. It's not griefing.

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Originally Posted by Thayos

It's situational, but yes, this is often the case.

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And then my point stands, people have a problem with you calling them inconsiderate, even if you do not do so directly. Especially when they're just playing the system the way it was intended to be. You waited, they chose not to. That's all there is to it.

As long as your point stands, so will mine. Funny how things balance out like that.

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No, i'm saying your analogy is flat out wrong and does not fit.

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OK, it's official... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

If I pull before 200 show up, I get more credit, if I wait, I get less, by saying I am greifing them, is like saying their rewards are more important than mine.

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When the content first came out, I was hunting with small groups and wouldn't wait too long for fear of not getting credit.

Since then, I have found it much more enjoyable to join the bigger LSs and participate as part of a much larger group as long as people are being polite about the kills and sharing with others. As long as everyone is in a group they all get credit. By sharing, you're not only helping others by getting them credit, but you encourage them to share kills they find with you.

And getting in a group is easy, usually there's a few that are up on PF or if you're solo and in zone with a hunt mob, it's very easy to either shout for others to invite you or form your own party with others who are shouting for invites. 8 people in group should make getting credit easy as long as everyone can hit the monster once or twice. Even better with a tank or healer in your group spamming high threat moves.

But play as you like if you feel like you'll enjoy that better I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Yay for big hunt shells.

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Like I have said many times, the people that started some of the hunt shells were people I didn't like and were on my blacklist even before the hunts, I choose not to be a part of those groups, and I am ok with the fact that it will take me longer to get marks and what not. If I see a group gathered around a mark, I don't pull those, I wait because I or the folks in my group didn't find it, now if I find a mark, or someone in my group does, I pull when we have enough to kill it, I will shout in zone, and if there is room I will invite those that ask for invites or will take a random invite if I am solo. I'm just not a fan of the huge horde, and choose not to be a part of it and not to support it, I don't think there is anything malicious with it, and I am ok with not getting all the perks that comes along with it, it's just how I choose to play.