Is anyone else really disappointed with the nerfs coming in 2.2?

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

But by doing that, you make other gear useless. By that I mean, an item at lvl30 may be better than items at lvl50...but all of the items in between are useless, too. IMO, the higher level item should be the better one.

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That's an extreme example. Even in XI at best one of the 'best' items that wasn't end-game were level 59-65 that was crafted at 75 cap. Most 'BiS' was spread through content which didn't create other gear being useless, it just means until you hit end-game, you actually had something worthwhile that wouldn't become useless in the next update.

In XIV, DL was useless out the gate as Myth and coil gear already existed in terms of progression. Hell, even majority of the crafted gear in this game is worthless when dungeon drops is far superior due to added stats you can't get on crafting.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

blah.

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I don't know if you replied to my first or second post, but I'll assume you replied to first one.
And then I think you're wrong about how I play it. I have full ilvl 70 gear, yet I play the main scenario like once or twice a week. Or well the Praetorium at least cause I think the last boss is really fun and the music is awesome. I do Ifrit hm a couple of times a week even though I got my staff from him already just cause I think it's a really fun fight. And I was thinking that I'd try to take on Garuda hm this week. The gear doesn't really matter to me, I just want to enjoy the game and then slowly progress towards end game gear. That's why I don't like it when they're nerfing my favourite parts of the game.

I understand if they'd nerf these fights later, maybe after an expansion or so, but I think they're nerfing everything a bit too early. I started playing this game a month ago when there was a sale on steam. And I believe a lot of other people bought it as well during that sale. And some of them might not even have reached level 50 and SE are already nerfing the content they haven't had a chance to try

I'm basically just expressing my opinion about how I feel about the nerfs and I want to see if there are others out there who thinks like me

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

In XIV, DL was useless out the gate as Myth and coil gear already existed in terms of progression. Hell, even majority of the crafted gear in this game is worthless when dungeon drops is far superior due to added stats you can't get on crafting.

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That's an extreme example. You're lying to yourself if you say you didn't use DL for long time before having access to myth/allagan. FFXI was you get O.kotes at lvl34, you're set forever on SAM and MNK. Get AF, you're good for most content. They weren't even hard to get...just took unnecessarily long. Obviously, I'm talking pre-abyssea which is when I played.

Did not read all what everyone posted, but would say disappointed that they are lowering difficulty on Ak, i mean this will be the 2nd time and it is rather easy as it is

Basically this entire game annoys me. Way too casual.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Are people playing to have fun or to get the latest gear as soon as possible?

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Some people just like treating MMOs like single player games, others don't like putting a "huge" amount of effort according to them and they'll keep throwing IRL excuses for it or saying how it's just a videogame and they are entitled to one shot everything instead of naturally learning the fight and sticking with a group until they beat something or finding another group that's willing to learn the game's mechanics and gear properly, learn a fight and try for a win until the end, a really tiny amount of the player base really and honestly find every piece of content too hard for their videogame abilities. Most of them will most likely leave the game at some point the moment it simply becomes too hard for them, though the amount of people leaving because the game because is too easy will probably be higher than the people leaving because it's too hard. I seriously can't believe there are people this unwilling to stick to a fight or find a good group of friends and people to do content with and keep trying until they win, and I say this as someone who considers himself bad at videogames and took two weeks just to get to Titan EXs final phase and just beat Twintania three weeks ago for the first time, though I've met a couple of people who just wouldn't listen to even the most basic of advices and kept saying how the game was too hard so you never know.

Fun for some people seems to be clearing content while taking the path of least resistance, buffs included, they're similar to the type of people who'll defend cheats in single player games or options to skip combat, and I also say that as someone who's used trainers, cheatcodes, savestates and even lowered the difficulty in single player games because I just wanted to beat a game. They'll also bash you for dictating what's fun for them and how that's just like your opinion man and they'll take everything as a personal insult, you really can't win against them.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Did not read all what everyone posted, but would say disappointed that they are lowering difficulty on Ak, i mean this will be the 2nd time and it is rather easy as it is

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Ak will be easier than qarn now lol. They're making it for the brain dead for some reason.

Anyway remember when developers made games for gamers back in the day. Now we have people playing games they're bad at(is it actually fun for them?) I can guess these people only play mmos for the social aspect and attention and some reason games are designed for them

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Originally Posted by Libby9

Ak will be easier than qarn now lol. They're making it for the brain dead for some reason.

Anyway remember when developers made games for gamers back in the day. Now we have people playing games they're bad at(is it actually fun for them?) I can guess these people only play mmos for the social aspect and attention and some reason games are designed for them

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So, people that also have actual lives aren't gamers all of a sudden? Just because they don't care to slap their epeen up side people's head to make up for were their life lacks otherwise, doesn't make them any less of a gamer than you.

BTW, did you like how I threw in those assumption based off nothing at all? Does that concept sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

I bet you still die to Titan HM plenty even after the nerf. It's like some people think these nerfs will mean people can just stand in landslide or WoTL and survive. They're not giving people a win button. If people can't dodge and play their class, they will still be halted at Titan HM.

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Actually, with a 50% increase in stats they probably could stand in WoTL and survive.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I have waited a long time to try out garuda and titan hm, I decided that I'd try to get some gear from crystal tower and maybe one or two ilvl 90. But now that they're nerfing it I don't really feel like trying it out anymore. What's the point, if we wipe it will just be easier. Feel so bummed out and I am not even sure if I want to play anymore. I think this game is great and I want the progress to be slower so that I won't get bored too quickly, but by nerfing everything they're doing the exact opposite.

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By overgearing content (full DL is far enough for HM primals) you're already nerfing it passively. but I don't think you've even considered it that way. They are just accelerating the process that the players already do. Instead of farming for equipment you don't need to do the fights, they give you a bonus to beat the fights without the stuff farming method.


All in all, players dumbing content due to overgear or beating it with buff at the right equipment level, I can't see any difference

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Actually, with a 50% increase in stats they probably could stand in WoTL and survive.

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Attributes won't help with Landslide and I've seen Dragoons with over 5k HP get one shot by a couple stacked WoTL. So, adding 1.7K HP or so to a player with 3.5K HP won't stop them from being one shot if they can't dodge. More than anything, the buff will make it so the DPS race isn't as difficult to complete and so that healers have an easier time during unavoidable stuff.

I have 6 relics and Titan HM is a cake walk to me now (I regularly offer to help FC mates who need it), but, I understand players pain. You could go the whole fight and never get hit by anything and still lose constantly because other people can't seem to dodge. Besides that, I don't mind if other players have an easier time obtaining their relic. I had fun getting mine the old way and I'll have fun getting my last three when my SCH/SUM and MNK are level 50. Then again, I play for fun. Not bragging rights.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

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You play in a way that causes you personal confliction because of the way you are. You already stated that twice and you probably aren't realizing it that you are your own barrier.

Regardless by the end of the day one's playstyle isn't changing, old content isn't extinct, and the echo buff is optional just like wearing best in slot gear. So the paranoia and complaining is still beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Attributes won't help with Landslide and I've seen Dragoons with over 5k HP get one shot by a couple stacked WoTL. So, adding 1.7K HP or so to a player with 3.5K HP won't stop them from being one shot if they can't dodge. More than anything, the buff will make it so the DPS race isn't as difficult to complete and so that healers have an easier time during unavoidable stuff.

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It would be nice if Dragoon would use the buff as indication that it's okay to stop dpsing for a couple of seconds to avoid mechanics. Yet at least that do dodge can make up for 1 Dragoon in the party that dies to landslide or upheaval.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

By overgearing content (full DL is far enough for HM primals) you're already nerfing it passively. but I don't think you've even considered it that way. They are just accelerating the process that the players already do. Instead of farming for equipment you don't need to do the fights, they give you a bonus to beat the fights without the stuff farming method.


All in all, players dumbing content due to overgear or beating it with buff at the right equipment level, I can't see any difference

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I think it's different cause then I have worked for my gear and didn't get a free buff for it. Also Titan hm is scary. So I'd rather work for my gear and then go for a hard trial than being able to do it without that gear. (Sure it's possible anyways but I'm not that good at dodging stuff)

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

That's an extreme example.

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So what you're saying is - You still use your DL gear for your main even after you get i90, which came out in the same patch as DL gear?

I would rather they nerf older content than nerfing the job I enjoy playing.
I went through that in FFXI. It's no fun.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Attributes won't help with Landslide and I've seen Dragoons with over 5k HP get one shot by a couple stacked WoTL. So, adding 1.7K HP or so to a player with 3.5K HP won't stop them from being one shot if they can't dodge. More than anything, the buff will make it so the DPS race isn't as difficult to complete and so that healers have an easier time during unavoidable stuff.

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I never said anything about landslide. As far as stacked plumes; don't stand near other people. That has nothing to do with latency or even being bad. It's not hard to stand alone, even after he destroys the majority of the instance. You're also forgetting in addition to the 50% hp increase, their defense and magic defense is also being increased by 50%. So yes, likely someone with around 4.5-5k AND a 50% defensive stat increase could stand in multiple plumes and survive.

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Originally Posted by Roris

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I agree with you. I can understand how some people play it like a single player game (or well I don't reaaally understand it cause I love the social part of mmorpgs) but I still feel like that isn't the way mmorpgs should be.
Maybe I feel this way cause I haven't played another mmorpg since Wow Vanilla. And I think that is one of the best mmorpgs out there. I was at level 60 for a year and got like 2 or 3 epics during that year, yet I kept playing cause I loved doing raids (even though my guild could barely do mc and we never managed to down the first boss in the 2nd big dungeon bwl or summin like that) and the challenge and preperations for every raid was so much fun.
I guess I'm still used to old school wow

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

So what you're saying is - You still use your DL gear for your main even after you get i90, which came out in the same patch as DL gear?

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What are you talking about? I used DL to get i90 gear. You can only get maybe 1 piece of i90 a week from mythology, and 1 or 2 pieces if you're lucky from BC. I wasn't doing BC day 1. It sounds like you're saying, "i90 exists, i70 doesn't matter". I wasn't i90 in 1 day. I'm still not i90 on my "main" (I play 4 different roles). I don't understand your point.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

As far as stacked plumes; don't stand near other people.

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You are suppose to stack on top of each other.

Never know why people never did it in hard it only promotes laziness.

Two two things that are really fun in this game so far are coil and EX primals. Our guild is still working on both T5, and Titan EX (mostly due to lag issues on Titan,) and they haven't grown old yet. I like content that is challenging to beat, and I while I can understand the logic behind making the old stuff easier I think they are doing it too fast in XIV. Rather than nerfing the content at this point I think they should work on fixing the lag issues then see how people do and make adjustments. Basically they have a game whose challenge appears to be centered around reacting to things in a timely fashion and we often can't as a result of server lag. This buff they are adding seems more like a band-aid than a fix to me.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I think it's different cause then I have worked for my gear and didn't get a free buff for it. Also Titan hm is scary. So I'd rather work for my gear and then go for a hard trial than being able to do it without that gear. (Sure it's possible anyways but I'm not that good at dodging stuff)

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It's not really different. It's a matter of habits. I'm also pretty bad at dodging (though it comes more easily with trainng. Way far from a natural thing but yet easier), but I never had to be above a full DL to do titan.
the difference between iL70 (iL required for a not-so-hard fight with titan) and iL90 is the same that the echo buff will provide with 3 wipes. More or less. People will even be able to gear at iL100 with the new patch. With that in mind, giving a buff to ease the progress a bit more in order not to drag people behind by needless farm isn't that much a problem. Also, if you don't want the buff, you'll still be able to remove it to experience the "real deal".

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

You are suppose to stack on top of each other.

Never know why people never did it in hard it only promotes laziness.

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because a lot of people would not have even one relic if they did. And by a lot, I mean a big part of players who are farming coil today.

Every single successful Titan HM run that I did was with a non-stacking method, just because you can survive the plumes that way if you mess up. The only moment you *need* to stack is for the stomps, really

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Two two things that are really fun in this game so far are coil and EX primals. Our guild is still working on both T5, and Titan EX (mostly due to lag issues on Titan,) and they haven't grown old yet. I like content that is challenging to beat, and I while I can understand the logic behind making the old stuff easier I think they are doing it too fast in XIV. Rather than nerfing the content at this point I think they should work on fixing the lag issues then see how people do and make adjustments. Basically they have a game whose challenge appears to be centered around reacting to things in a timely fashion and we often can't as a result of server lag. This buff they are adding seems more like a band-aid than a fix to me.

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you're doing it with your Fc, thus you can remove the buff and will never see the nerf in action. I'm not sure what your issue is here..

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

just because you can survive the plumes that way

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You are stacking so everyone moves and avoids a simple mechanic. There's a reason why I mentioned laziness.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

You are stacking so everyone moves and avoids a simple mechanic. There's a reason why I mentioned laziness.

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Nah, stacking sucked on HM. Standing in a line behind titan is/was better. That way even if someone messed up and only took a step or two, they would only get hit by their own.. Well unless they took those steps forwards or backwards.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

You are stacking so everyone moves and avoids a simple mechanic. There's a reason why I mentioned laziness.

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There is a reason a lot (if not pretty much all but a few) PUG fail at titan, either HM or EX version. And that reason is called "plumes". If it was such a simple mechanic, everyone would have a relic weapon, and that statement is all but true.

Also, you forgot the main factor which determines if you'll be able to beat titan or not : lag. If you lag (and a lot of people do), no matter how hard you try or know the fight, you won't dodge the plumes. Thanksfully enough, not stacking allows you to live through it.

But yeah I know : "lag doesn't exist. People invented that excuse to justify them being horribad"

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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Lag is a factor on Titan but I can't say it's the biggest, but I have experienced it there and elsewhere. I do agree with you otherwise though. Plumes tend to catch people by surprise even if they knew they were coming. The biggest issue in my own experience concerning Titan hasn't been so much the plumes as it has been the dps race of the Heart phase. Even if the group makes it past that, a fair amount of people have no idea what comes next so it's a wipe not long after. These people's numbers may have decreased since I've been there which has been a few months(beat it after weeks of trying, haven't been back since) but that is where I see the most problems. Everyone's experience varies though.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Nah, stacking sucked on HM. Standing in a line behind titan is/was better. That way even if someone messed up and only took a step or two, they would only get hit by their own.. Well unless they took those steps forwards or backwards.

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I see so many horrible wipes that shouldn't happen in dungeons, hardmode, extremes, and even BCs that I just wish I didn't have to bother with these repair bills because 1 person f'd up and it's nearly impossible to recuperate from his/her mistake.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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I've had lag before and even with lag I was avoid a lot of titan's mechanics. Most people don't because they just get so used to waiting for the indicators to appear before moving that laziness stems from the fact that they are hoping that they wont be the target for said mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

You are suppose to stack on top of each other.

Never know why people never did it in hard it only promotes laziness.

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I totally agree that stacking is better. But it causes people with "lag" to get one shot instead of just eating a single plume and living. I use the term lag loosely.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

I totally agree that stacking is better. But it causes people with "lag" to get one shot instead of just eating a single plume and living. I use the term lag loosely.

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People with lag will eventually be dying to other mechanics such as geo crush, landslide, gaol, or upheaval.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

I've had lag before and even with lag I was avoid a lot of titan's mechanics. Most people don't because they just get so used to waiting for the indicators to appear before moving that laziness stems from the fact that they are hoping that they wont be the target for said mechanic.

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I have lag and I can avoid a lot of Titan Ex mechanics. Because I learned when they come and what's the delay before they appear effectively on my screen. Yet, I cannot move preemptively as you're suggesting to do. Because moving preemptively if you stack is a sure way to damage/kill ALL your party, and you really want to avoid that in Titan.
That makes that I have to wait for the indicator (the true one => cast bar) to show before moving, and that makes me die stupidly half of the time, because the indicator showed after the damage applied.

But one thing I'd like you to avoid : don't assume people don't do XX stuff because of XX reason. Assuming they are bad is an elitist PoV. Assuming they hide the fact they are bad behind the "lag excuse" is being a jerk above the elitist PoV. Assuming they should be able to do it because you did it is a complete non sense as, obviously enough, they are not you, so there is no way something that you can do, they could do the same just because you did. They may or may not succeed, but it won't be because you did it and thus proved anyone can do it.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

But one thing I'd like you to avoid : don't assume people don't do XX stuff because of XX reason.

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Practice what you preach then.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

So, people that also have actual lives aren't gamers all of a sudden? Just because they don't care to slap their epeen up side people's head to make up for were their life lacks otherwise, doesn't make them any less of a gamer than you.

BTW, did you like how I threw in those assumption based off nothing at all? Does that concept sound familiar?

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So... your argument is that good players have no lives. Is that why they clear coil in under an hour and then they're done for the week; while the people that can't try for 4 hours a night? lolz
That logic :)

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Originally Posted by Wildsprite

which boss is this? I hope you are not referring to Absolute Virtue because if you are I hate to burst your bubble here but he was beaten.

there are no unbeatable bosses in XI, never were. it was always about strategy and job setups with those bosses.

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He was unbeatable for years before they nerfed him, which was about 3 years ago, don't quote me on the exact date of when he nerfed. Emphasis on the word "had" and not "has".

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Originally Posted by Doo

Players fault, not game. Could of been any game, didn't people die from playing WoW? According to Wiki Answer: 3.

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Iirc - and it's possible I don't, didn't someone die from a WoW marathon where he literally didn't eat, drink or use the bathroom or something stupid.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

Other things like ADS, High Voltage being esuna-able, I actually agree with. It makes no sense to reflect the urgency of a High Voltage being silenced, but give no option to recover properly if it does happen. In essence that's forcing a party setup to include two silencing classes.

This is also really damn true too.

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I agree with everything you said with a minor modification to this. I have no problem with High Voltage being able to be removed with Esuna, however, they also stated that "The likelihood that players will be paralyzed by the attack High Voltage has been reduced."

I don't like this. Either have the mechanism or don't.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

I have a little question for you and people who liked your post:
Have you, or your FC ever sold an HM/Ex win?
I bet for most the answer is yes.

your answer is "you really dont care if they pay you for it!!"

your actual issue is not that people can get to new content / have old done but that you can't make profit for it!!

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My FC has, I have sold 1 Titan HM run where I got 10k, so if that counts and you consider it extreme bias for my concerns then so be it, but I really don't see one run as a habit or one that would that would cloud my judgement.

Note, my fc hasn't sold any since either right before or right after 2.1 so not really big issue there either.

If people want to sell Titan runs I have no problem with it. Nothing is FORCING people to buy runs, there are plenty of good groups out there. If someone can't get Titan down it's generally because they can't dodge. If that's the case and I take time out of my schedule to help you (a stranger, this does not apply to friends) then why shouldn't my time in some way be compensated? Do you work for free?

Regardless, like I said, I've only personally ever sold one and it was when I was asked to by a friend who was setting up a group for a sell run. It's not like I shouted in RT for an hour trying to find a customer.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Should everyone be entitled to the same rewards regardless of skill level or time invested? I really don't think so.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

If people want to sell Titan runs I have no problem with it.

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:confused:

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

He was unbeatable for years before they nerfed him, which was about 3 years ago, don't quote me on the exact date of when he nerfed. Emphasis on the word "had" and not "has".

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He was not unbeatable for years before they nerfed him. He was killed quite easily using an exploit. Se then buffed him to remove said exploit. They simply never acknowledged any of the victories people got prior to the eventual nerf were real.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

He was not unbeatable for years before they nerfed him. He was killed quite easily using an exploit. Se then buffed him to remove said exploit. They simply never acknowledged any of the victories people got prior to the eventual nerf were real.

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Killing an enemy via glitch does not mean it's beatable.

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Originally Posted by Chasely

He was not unbeatable for years before they nerfed him. Se then buffed him to remove said exploit. .

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By them buffing him and removing exploit didn't they then make him unbeatable until the nerf? Remember that dev video of them killing him we were promised for months that never appeared? He was unbeatable and they knew it. If he was beatable they would have given us proof and not found it necessary to nerf him. Surely showing us how to do it is better than just making him a joke?

BTW, for all those commenting on my use of the term "hardcore". I don't consider myself hardcore because of content I have beaten - ask anyone who knows me, I sucked on Titan Ex for a month - but because of the time and energy I am willing to put in. I am not the best player, not by a long shot, but I am willing to learn and grow. Whether it's by doing content repeatedly till I get it, or doing research online.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

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Good point, well taken. But note I said I have no problem with people selling them (not buying), that's their choice. Usually people who buy a run have at least tried. If someone just hit 50 and was like "screw this I'm just gonna buy it", then I hope they severely jack up the price on that player. This is basically why I DON'T sell runs. If someone is trying their best, putting in the time and effort I will absolutely help them. I do take issue with people buying runs (although this also is their choice) because they're no good to anyone on harder content if they can't even dodge a plume in HM. However, as long as there are lazy players there will be sellers, doesn't mean the practice of selling runs is hella-good, but if you're not going to help yourself then why should I?
I am sure I am not conveying myself as best I would like here, but right now I can't think of a better way to explain my point without creating a huge wall-o-text.