Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by javid

clueless troll!

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You're not even attempting to understand where us WHM mains are coming from.
You read what we say (maybe) and the instantly retaliate with your "you're not the 1% who cares stop playing WHM!" argument.

There really is something wrong with WHM and the lily system, both in its fun factor and balance between both other healers.
There was a noticeable gap in power, but now it's more apparent than ever.
You don't need to raid or to be a hardcore gamer to see how extremely weak the job is right now. It's to the point that bringing it into the raid is a handicap, and that is just an awful feeling. It must've felt something like this with Dragoons in 2.0, but at least they did decent damage to pull their own weight.

Of course, you'll just ignore all of this and scream quit WHM or say "it's still viable" so \o/

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Originally Posted by javid

Man you're out of touch.... but I can tell by the way you parsed my words in order to make erroneous points, that I'd be wasting time going point by point with you.... I'll just take the lost! You're right! I'm the clueless troll! NO, the stupid, clueless troll!

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You've already been wasting your time. One would think by now you'd realize that the concerns people have with WHM aren't limited to 'the top 1% core raiders' but whatever I guess. I won't argue that last bit, though.

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Originally Posted by javid

(snip) if you really dont like the implementations in content....don't play it;.

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WHM is the only job I've tried that satisfies me. If they go through with the teased changes I will likely not enjoy the game any more.

I'm not a top tier raider, but I am a lower to mid tier one. I still think the people who aren't interested in this content matter. WHM will have the few parts of it's unique kit given to the other healers and in return only gets gated chance based procs with minimal returns in an actual fight. This poorly effects anyone interested in WHM regardless of the level of play as you can get better healing ability plus utilities from the other healers where WHM has none.

TLDR; Everyone matters. Those looking for relaxed play would have a better time with a more powerful healer. Those looking for raid need utility.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Why is one job out of 13 in the game designated as "casual" and deserves to not have any helpful or strong mechanics for itself?
If that's actually true, it's a very stupid move on Yoshi's part, to be blunt about it.

And creating interesting and fun mechanics isn't only catering to hardcore players. I'm sure casual players would love a fun system on their WHM that rewards them and makes them feel powerful. If anything, this lily system will turn more players off of WHM rather then draw them in. No one wants to sit around playing with RNG, and CD reduction is very BORING.

Casual doesn't have to mean boring or weak.

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As someone​ who is decidedly a casual player, I'd love the WHM to get more utility and buffs available to the party. I've been listing ideas left and right not because I want an OD character or "Have it all," it's because I'd find them fun. I love the aesthetics and lore of the class, and would like to play it and not feel clunkily designed or "weak" relative to other healers in a group.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Yoshida Interview excerpt

Since things are more serious in raiding, on the other hand, you'll definitely want to DPS for the first clear. As item levels go up and you're after repeat clears, the roles may shift. (laughs)

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I get the feeling, people aren't connecting with the point of this line. Pretty sure by "first clear" he means week 1-3 of raids where your gear is literally below the design of running the raid smoothly. Which after a few weeks of tome and turn in farming, a groups DPS should be on par with the expected tank sticking to mitigation, healer to healing, DPS to DPS. But hes still acknowledging that day 1 of savage, its going to be tightroping the dps check that way. So that extra bit of healer dps can make it easier to be on the far side of it. But after its in full swing, its just clear speed not wipe or win. World/Data Center/Server firsts, not "newbie" firsts.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

sorry i was thinking of something else, just went and looked at the newest tooltip or whatever, it's a very short CD http://i.imgur.com/ujTFL1H.jpg

trying to think what was 35s, but looking...i just can't figure it out now. maybe it was on another class i'm looking into the tooltips about...

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Thanks for finding the tooltip. Yep this makes it a bit easier to use at a decent time rather than blow it right away unlike the 35s misassociation. Doesnt really change the acquisition timer, but makes it easier to use. 7 more days til the fog of war clears... Either way its CD is still a min of 30s since its about the fastest you can flip in cards.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

I get the feeling, people aren't connecting with the point of this line. Pretty sure by "first clear" he means week 1-3 of raids where your gear is literally below the design of running the raid smoothly. Which after a few weeks of tome and turn in farming, a groups DPS should be on par with the expected tank sticking to mitigation, healer to healing, DPS to DPS. But hes still acknowledging that day 1 of savage, its going to be tightroping the dps check that way. So that extra bit of healer dps can make it easier to be on the far side of it. But after its in full swing, its just clear speed not wipe or win. World/Data Center/Server firsts, not "newbie" firsts.



Thanks for finding the tooltip. Yep this makes it a bit easier to use at a decent time rather than blow it right away unlike the 35s misassociation. Doesnt really change the acquisition timer, but makes it easier to use. 7 more days til the fog of war clears... Either way its CD is still a min of 30s since its about the fastest you can flip in cards.

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Yeah, i'm burning on fumes from doing an addition to my actual house. i know some job has a new 35s timer...but for the life of me, too tired to really associate it.

this does however, put a lot of power in the AST hands (not that i'm against Jobs having unique things...but...this seems a bit too much. every draw they can have a burst of DPS or some healing: ie Tank busters) but...i don't think this should come at the costs of the players of WHMs and the players of SCHs to an extent..

I know, realistically, it's going to be used 2 times a minute, but it just...seems a bit much. a bit Shiny new Toy that Makes it so there are no bad cards but can all be really good cards and yes, i'm aware that ALL cards can have some use, but with Arrow and...something else (again wiped out tired right now) being now given an auto spread...it's looking more like they're getting a lot more buffs than they need at this point.

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Originally Posted by Saraphin

i know some job has a new 35s timer...but for the life of me, too tired to really associate it.

this does however, put a lot of power in the AST hands (not that i'm against Jobs having unique things...but...this seems a bit too much. every draw they can have a burst of DPS or some healing: ie Tank busters) but...i don't think this should come at the costs of the players of WHMs and the players of SCHs to an extent..

I know, realistically, it's going to be used 2 times a minute, but it just...seems a bit much. a bit Shiny new Toy that Makes it so there are no bad cards but can all be really good cards and yes, i'm aware that ALL cards can have some use, but with Arrow and...something else being now given an auto spread...it's looking more like they're getting a lot more buffs than they need at this point.

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Im still awaiting something more concrete on the base aoe card effects, tho i agree its rediculous if its true. Tho part of getting 2 chances of lord lady per minute, it also means were failing to set up any buff utility for 1 minute. Either way this technically pans out weaker than what I wanted to fix the 2 cds for no gain issue, which was control over Royal Roads activation, but seems interesting, so next week ill play with and make an opinion on it. Unlike some people here i wont complain about a layer of RNG and having to use single target heals, or complain that being able to use my CDs more often is undesirable. Now we just need a 25% RNG Mechanic on AST and well have a full set from out of 2 to out of 6. (Draw 1/6, Redraw 1/5, Royal Road 1/3, Minor Arcana 1/2, awaiting 1/4).

There never have been bad cards, just more expensive to use ones. In comparison to WHM like this forum is about, itd be like having to click off Presence of Mind intentionally so you could use Asylum earlier. Tho in our case we usually throw away defense, power replenishment, cooldowns, and speed just to give people what they want...
Sometimes i think AST would be more fun without royal road. Just spread and draw. One card to save for the right moment, one to put in the best spot now, this later point is near dead in current AST play. I like royal road and all, but it feels like it limits my choices more often than not. Don't get to use nearly enough Enhanced Boles, Extended Arrows, or Expanded Ewer/Spire, its always wtf wheres my balance, never oh sweet thanks for the TP... My crappy DPS Goadarai and Battery Likened Mage to the rescue (crappy DPS, because I personally suck at DPS, I OT and Heal for a reason). Also BLM acronym usage win, and yes I seriously plan on mastering the art of giving out MP/TP on the kings of Damage Per Hit type DPS jobs, cause I'll probably never get a pure support in games again.

I feel like this thread is being continuously derailed by AST apologists and attention seekers... many of whom don't have WHM at 60 (looking at you, Highlights) or haven't bothered playing the job outside of 4-person dungeons since they main a tank or something.

The bottom line: WHM needs some form raid utility to compete with AST and SCH in endgame content.

Take your pick! Lots of great suggestions in this thread.

-Direct hit buff for the party
-Haste
-Better shields (Graniteskin)
-Target defense down (Dia)
-Reraise
-Raise II (no weakness)

Honestly, just one single place where WHM could shine would mean a world of difference, even with a clunky, shoehorned lily system.

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

I feel like this thread is being continuously derailed by AST apologists and attention seekers... many of whom don't have WHM at 60 (looking at you, Highlights) or haven't bothered playing the job outside of 4-person dungeons since they main a tank or something.

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I guessing I'm highlights. Ill have my 2nd 60 WHM this week. Unfortunately the forums only allow you to register 3 characters, so the 3 with multiple jobs are listed, i have 7 that have completed at least 3.0, one has NOTHING BUT a WHM on it. Yep, I'm that rare breed of player who has alts for more than just mules. If it helps PLD is my favorite tank, have 2 of those at 60 as well, prefer to OT, picking up adds and covering for the team (Divine Veil, Passage of Arms, and a heal /drool). 2 60 DRGs, BLMs, and CRPs as well, 1 of everything else at 60.

My constant co-healer plays SCH/WHM and usually covers most of the healing necessary, while I cover most of the support like, Cleanse, Rez, mechanics reminders, MP management, random target mechanic recovery like prey, or DPS. How she does it on SCH and sometimes Noct AST and make it looks easy, who knows, I prefer WHM/Diurnal AST for primarily taking over healing. And were not big fans of running D AST/N AST, not as fun and we boil down into having to flip roles, I do bulk she does spot, which quite frankly, were better the other way around.

Edit: my bad just checked, it 3 jobs per character, so Gidget is listed when looking at my profile. Ociela's should hit 59 tomorrow (later today) and 60 Saturday.
For the future, don't forget to use the resources you have available to verify things.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

I get the feeling, people aren't connecting with the point of this line. Pretty sure by "first clear" he means week 1-3 of raids where your gear is literally below the design of running the raid smoothly.

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It's a bit off topic, but I think "first clear" means different things for different groups: it may require healer DPS from the world first groups on the first few weeks, like you said. But from the "not-100%-optimal" groups it will require that for much longer, even with item level increase. The thing that doesn't make sense in that quote is that if you are able to DPS as a healer on your first clear in any content, the content won't get any harder than that, so you're supposed to DPS more on each following clear... Sorry about the off topic, that quote has been bothering me because it doesn't make much sense. :P

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Originally Posted by Taika

It's a bit off topic, but I think "first clear" means different things for different groups: it may require healer DPS from the world first groups on the first few weeks, like you said. But from the "not-100%-optimal" groups it will require that for much longer, even with item level increase. The thing that doesn't make sense in that quote is that if you are able to DPS as a healer on your first clear in any content, the content won't get any harder than that, so you're supposed to DPS more on each following clear... Sorry about the off topic, that quote has been bothering me because it doesn't make much sense. :P

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No arguement about that, its just my impression of HIS intention, was the envelope pushers who make the strats as they learn, not try to learn with the knowledge there and acclimate to the practice if using it. Of couse it could be another lost in translation nuance.
I still remember the guy who could Solo, heal Odin trial when it came out and just crush the bleeds with pure throughput on WHM, also he got angry if you "wasted time" cleansing them off. Wasn't the nicest guy, but played like a champ. So healer DPS couldvalso equate to, ditch one healer and get a super good solo healer to buy the slot, or free up one healer to do more. Lots of meaning can be gotten out of it, but Im banking on the forerunners in this case.
Under the idea its the content pushers who would be able to sneak in more DPS from healers and tanks, theyre probably also consisting of on average better players than later sub optimal DF/PF groups with better player synergy. So does he imply its easy enough ANYONE can pull it off when the content is ahead, or the people who are quite good at what they could do would be able to pull it off.
Wouldn't be surprised if Yoshi-P was more understandable when talking to Japanese media, English lacks a lot of the subtle nuances that Japanese has a lot of.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

You're not even attempting to understand where us WHM mains are coming from.

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......lol.....I clearly have been wasting my time.... for the amount of detail I've place in my posts..... and data with actual game mech descriptions, videos, parses, etc.... For you to make a comment like that to marginalize/summarize my positions as "you've not been listening...."

You guys are obtuse and inaccurate. the MAJORITY of WHM have not been echoing your chants; the data doesn't support this lie you guys keep repeating to yourself. You harp on my use of hyperbole in referencing your concerns as the 1%... But does it really matter if you're actually 1% or 20%?? You're still havent become the majority and SE has, so far, catered their new changes to what the masses (whatever larger percentage that is). And if you don't like it all you can do is leave your complaints.

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Originally Posted by fantasticm

You've already been wasting your time. One would think by now you'd realize that the concerns people have with WHM aren't limited to 'the top 1% core raiders' but whatever I guess. I won't argue that last bit, though.

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I like how you ppl continue to marginalize what I've posted with this "1%" comment, as if you can't comprehend hyperbole to make a point. Again the concerns you have, YES, are shared by many WHMs across the realm......HOWEVER the larger HEALER populace DOES NOT SHARE YOUR CONCERNS, and SE (so far) has sided with the populace with their new implementations! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT..... you can leave your complaints down below, and if you can garner enough ppl to share your complaints MAYBE you'll see a change??




Its still funny how you and the ppl like you think you can also quiet the opposition?? I don't know who else this might be working on??? But this TROLL aint going nowhere?:cool::cool::cool: At least, as your opposition, though characterize as extremely patronizing and condensing, I haven't attempt to quiet you guys. Still baffles me ya'll say "I don't understand" or "I aint trying to listen......" LOL. I have been listening and I most certainly understand, and I DISAGREEE! But nope, nope, if I disagree then clearly I'm not listening nor capable of understanding.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

An interesting subject : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...in_stormblood/
There are good comments.

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DUUUDDEE where has conversations like these been??? Yall should take notice! These ppl on this particular reddit forum are yelling at each other the same way we're doing here....but they're more articulate with their positions: stating facts, data, making references that can be recreated...... We could learn a thing or two? Or do we wanna continue to say stuff like "Designer have no clue how healing works in this game...."


Those are some nice numbers! WHM might be able to displace a SCH, if Ast can cover the sch role( ast can do anything so.....)

There's not much we can do but await a response at this point since I think everyone's covered a lot of weaknesses WHM has:

- NO RAID UTILITY WHATSOEVER
- Contradictive Lily System
- Job Abilities turned into Role Action fodder
- Extremely based on RNG for Lilies(except Cure II) and Freecure procs.
- Overshadowed heavily by D. AST's healing output
- Identity?

This is what I've taken for the most part from this thread.

An interesting subject : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...in_stormblood/
There are good comments.

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Originally Posted by CaeliaCat

Take your pick! Lots of great suggestions in this thread.

-Direct hit buff for the party
-Haste
-Better shields (Graniteskin)
-Target defense down (Dia)
-Reraise
-Raise II (no weakness)

Honestly, just one single place where WHM could shine would mean a world of difference, even with a clunky, shoehorned lily system.

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Shield is already a good part of Scholar and Astro.
I would choose something new that other healers don't have.
To reinforce the pure healer side of WHM, I would like to see an upgrade of Raise.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

There's not much we can do but await a response at this point since I think everyone's covered a lot of weaknesses WHM has:

- NO RAID UTILITY WHATSOEVER
- Contradictive Lily System
- Job Abilities turned into Role Action fodder
- Extremely based on RNG for Lilies(except Cure II) and Freecure procs.
- Overshadowed heavily by D. AST's healing output
- Identity?

This is what I've taken for the most part from this thread.

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Honestly at this point, I think it's best if we try and stop discussing the same issues in this thread.
The devs are going to look at this whenever they get it, see some 2000+ post monster, and instantly back out. At this point, we really should just wait and see.
Add as much as you can to the first page OP, that's most likely what they're going to look at as a general summary of the entire thread.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Honestly at this point, I think it's best if we try and stop discussing the same issues in this thread.
The devs are going to look at this whenever they get it, see some 2000+ post monster, and instantly back out. At this point, we really should just wait and see.
Add as much as you can to the first page OP, that's most likely what they're going to look at as a general summary of the entire thread.

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I'm pretty sure the OP covers all those points as it stands. Unless I missed something or need to clean something up.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Oh no, I wasn't implying the OP quotes and summarization was inadequate or anything. You've done a fine job.

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Oh, no worries. Admittedly, I've skipped a few pages since it looked like there was a lot of trolling going on, so I was worried I might have. XD I did, however, clean it up a bit to make it easier on the eyes.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I'm pretty sure the OP covers all those points as it stands. Unless I missed something or need to clean something up.

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Oh no, I wasn't implying the OP quotes and summarization was inadequate or anything. You've done a fine job.

It's impossible to take every point from a 200+ page argument and summarize it fully. I do hope that SE reads our arguments about the sheer power gap between WHM and AST though. Whether the job is labeled "casual" or not, playing at a high skill level should allow WHM to feel relatively strong and comparable to an AST at an equal skill level. Currently there's no matching them though. They're untouchable, on a completely different level.

I can't find any good quotes going into depth with this discussion in this huge thread, but I feel like what we have already is more than enough to get our feelings across.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/6g6jef/famitsus_stormblood_article_updated_with_skill/?sort=new

So the famitsu article was updated with some footnotes on The Whm section in particular. So basically the lily system was too unreliable in harder content and the info about the build having a fair amount of stuff cut from it to be stable. But we need to wait til release to get a clearer picture.

On mobile so can't link directly.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

To reinforce the pure healer side of WHM, I would like to see an upgrade of Raise.

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I agree as long as it comes in the company of additional fun, useful abilities. It would be unfortunate if WHM's niche were defined as being the best healer to have around when your party is terrible and dies too much.

On the other hand, more powerful or preemptive resurrection spells could be amazing in raid progression.

Love the change for cleric stance! So annoying ability.
Auto changing Stone I, II, III and IV according to level is also a great change!
Looking forward to playing my white mage again!
X fingers for better mana regen this expansion though.

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Originally Posted by Mahkii

Monk is also in a really good spot now too.

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Monk is in a terrible spot. To say we're the "featured class" none of our new skills are worth a crap. I don't intend to use Fow at all, RoF buff has a terrible downside, and the 2 or 3 FCs we'll see from deep meditation does not justify all our base attacks being nerfed. I could go on but to make a long story short, after maining mnk since ps3 beta the time has come for me to begrudgingly put down my fist thingies and pick up a katana. :(

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Originally Posted by Black_Starr

Monk is in a terrible spot. To say we're the "featured class" none of our new skills are worth a crap. I don't intend to use Fow at all, RoF buff has a terrible downside, and the 2 or 3 FCs we'll see from deep meditation does not justify all our base attacks being nerfed. I could go on but to make a long story short, after maining mnk since ps3 beta the time has come for me to begrudgingly put down my fist thingies and pick up a katana. :(

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I deleted my post, so please stay on topic with WHM now.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

An interesting subject : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...in_stormblood/
There are good comments.

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Interesting read through, thanks. I expect everyone to ignore it because it detracts from their arguments, but that was a good read through nonetheless, 10/10.

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Originally Posted by Kilka

Love the change for cleric stance!

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CS is pretty much going to be useless... 5% damage buff on such a long CD is pitiful.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

An interesting subject : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...in_stormblood/
There are good comments.

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I had pretty similar thoughts to this discussion thread after taking a few days of thinking the WHM tools over and over. The WHM kits has been keeping my brain going for a while since it's not overt and a lot of the subtle intricacies are rather fascinating despite the flawed approach to generating lillies. WHM's kit is poised to be the most MP efficient. AST suffered a minor nerf to their MP ability and their passive MP cost reduction isn't mirrored in their DPS kit. With a lower DoT count overall, there will be a reliance on more inefficient nuke spells which hurts SCH the most since they lost the most GCD DoTs (Shadowflare, Bio, Aero) while WHM lost the least (Aero). Between Tetra, Assize, Asylum, Plenery Indulgence, and Divine Benision; WHM gets a lot of heals that are both instant and MP free. I feel Plenery Indulgence is going to be a sleeper hit for the kit despite how much it makes so little sense with how to play healer.

If raid fights are long sustained damagefests, we might see WHM pulling ahead just on pure sustainability.

I'm gonna post something I posted on Reddit earlier.

By granting Cure 2 a 100% proc rate to lilies, they made the system even worse. One might ask, why? Having lilies come 100% from Cure 2 takes away all the incentive from using Cure 1.

Cure 1 was previously used to fish for Freecure procs, due to MP "problems" WHM had, but now, with the addition of Thin Air and lower CD on Assize, as well as a buff to Shroud (now called Lucid Dreaming), you'll be better off by letting the tank get a little lower and only using Cure II, because the higher MP cost by doing so will be compensated by consistently having Assize on a 48 seconds cooldown.

Keep in mind that ASTs still have the incentive of Enhanced Benefic to be casting Benefic 1 - wich grants a 100% crit on Benefic 2, also reducing the cooldown on Lightspeed by 5 seconds.

The right course of action in my opinion would be to give Cure 1 the 100% proc to lillies, while reverting it to 400 potency.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

If raid fights are long sustained damagefests, we might see WHM pulling ahead just on pure sustainability.

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While it's not impossible, it's worth noting that AST spells still cost quite a bit less than WHM ones. Over a long, sustained fight, those MP savings add up.

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Originally Posted by Entilper

The right course of action in my opinion would be to give Cure 1 the 100% proc to lillies, while reverting it to 400 potency.

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Personally I'd rather have stronger base heals than a high proc rate on cure. But that does go back to the problem... from what we saw, the AST heal is both stronger and cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Personally I'd rather have stronger base heals than a high proc rate on cure. But that does go back to the problem... from what we saw, the AST heal is both stronger and cheaper.

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In my opinion, it would be better if they kept the basic heal as 400 potency and giving 100% proc for lilies, while further enhancing Cure 2 potency or lowering its MP cost. They should also revert ASTs lower MP cost.

If they keep their idea WHMs will be the only healers with a heal spell relegated to nothing.

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Originally Posted by Entilper

AST CD reduction

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Honestly the AST proc sounds awful too. Unless there were changes to Lightspeed, I'm not sure why we would want it sooner.

That being said, it procing everytime guaranteed on a crit, along with Benefic II being a guaranteed CRIT at times is an example of great synergy with their kit. It all just works.
And the bad thing about this is, ASTs CD reduction is just something extra they were given. WHMs entire lily system is built off of this, and it synergizes horribly with our kit and playstyle.
It really shows that they either didn't care to develop anything for WHM, or they didn't have time to thoroughly think out a system for them.


And for goodness sake, can someone tell SE to revert the damn AST MP costs? Why in the HELL do they have lower MP costs for higher potency heals?

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

That being said, it procing everytime guaranteed on a crit, along with Benefic II being a guaranteed CRIT at times is an example of great synergy with their kit. It all just works.
And the bad thing about this is, ASTs CD reduction is just something extra they were given. WHMs entire lily system is built off of this, and it synergizes horribly with our kit and playstyle.

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Exactly. The new AST cooldown reduction proves that something can have synergy with the job without being OP, if it's really well-thought-out. I hope that if they don't fix WHM in 4.0, they at least do something for 4.X, because announcing that Cure 2 has a 100% proc rate on lilies changes nothing. The problem is the system itself.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

And for goodness sake, can someone tell SE to revert the damn AST MP costs? Why in the HELL do they have lower MP costs for higher potency heals?

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This still baffles me how they've not increased the MP costs to accompany the LONG-since improved healing potencies to match WHM's heals... AST just seems to always have their cake and eat it too.

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Originally Posted by Entilper

because announcing that Cure 2 has a 100% proc rate on lilies changes nothing. The problem is the system itself.

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Exactly this. It all amounts to polishing a turd if that's an indicator to the extent of their promised "changes".

So, here are my thoughts on where this conversation is currently at:

• I think that Cure 1 will also have 100% proc rate. A statement that Cure 2 has 100% proc rate does not mean that Cure 1 does not also have the 100% proc rate. It makes more sense for this system to thrive off of making Cure 1 significantly better. Plenary Indulgence has a 15 second CD, which about how often you might find yourself using a Cure 2. Instead, you could just be using Cure 1 + Plenary Indulgence until you proc a free Cure 2 for an even bigger heal.
• I honestly think AST's lower mp costs would be be balanced with their lack of 0 mp cost instant cast OCD heals (which WHM has an abundance of)
• I think everyone should stop thinking of balance as being a trade off between healing and damage. Both jobs should have their healing balanced to similar levels. Both jobs should have their raid damage contribution balanced to similar levels.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

While it's not impossible, it's worth noting that AST spells still cost quite a bit less than WHM ones. Over a long, sustained fight, those MP savings add up.

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This passive MP reduction used to perturb me immensely for the majority of of 3.X after the AST potency buffs and was further exacerbated by the LA buff.

Now with the way the healer kits are shaping, this passive doesn't bug me as much. Every healer seems to have their niche in terms of sustainability so we'll see how it all shapes up.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

This passive MP reduction used to perturb me immensely for the majority of of 3.X after the AST potency buffs and was further exacerbated by the LA buff.

Now with the way the healer kits are shaping, this passive doesn't bug me as much. Every healer seems to have their niche in terms of sustainability so we'll see how it all shapes up.

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The thing is, constant lower MP cost will always beat out MP saving CDs.
Such was the case with Shroud+ Assize being the excuse most people used to warrant AST retaining their lower MP costs.
It'll sure be interesting to observe if MP regeneration between healers will be a bit more balanced now.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

This passive MP reduction used to perturb me immensely for the majority of of 3.X after the AST potency buffs and was further exacerbated by the LA buff.

Now with the way the healer kits are shaping, this passive doesn't bug me as much. Every healer seems to have their niche in terms of sustainability so we'll see how it all shapes up.

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Do they really though? Because I am struggling to find White Mage's niche. They...

- are not the strongest single target healer
- are the worst mitigation healer
- are the worst utility healer
- are debatably better at aoe healing

Therefore, we are left with damage. This could work were it significant enough to offset the aforementioned drawbacks, however that just isn't the case with Balance still existing. All in all, the only niche I see them filling are in casual content. Of course, we'll see what potential changes come in a week.

I sort of feel that they have tried to condense down the skills but also remove some of the unique aspects that make each Healer Individual healers.

Divine Seal for me should have stayed as a WHM skill giving it the individualism away from the other healers and largesse been accessed as a cross-role for the other 2.

Esuna losing the 20% passive this should have remained again because of the above reason.

The current Lilly System needs something linked to the confession system such as

Each Lilly grants a 5-second extended duration to confession stacks.

3 Lilly's Held increases confession proc chance by up to 2.5 - 3% per Lilly.

First experience with 1000 character limit and i already hate it.

Adding Divine Benison on 3 Lilly stacks to give an Area of effect Sheild 15% to first Target and 5-10% to the rest.

Raise Added stone skin effect when used with 1-3 Lilly's Stone skin effect % based (Could add Lilly consumed here as well).

Thin Air - Added benefit of En-Aero to all party members for 10 seconds.

Plenary Indulgence 10% chance confession stacks will not be consumed upon use.

Additional Skill that upon 3 Lilly stacks Casts Regen on all party members at 50% reduced potency Longer CD to compensate(All Lillys consumed upon use of this skill)

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Originally Posted by Xaen

snip

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you can break the 1k limit by editing a post. I think the true limit for a post is 10k characters.