Yoshi-P tells PC Gamer that he is "not shocked" by mixed DT reception

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Originally Posted by Tunda

it is not about confident.. Zero wasn't confident and act awkward with people,

the issue is the character it self.. it doesn't have the capability to be a ruler of herself rather than Tural nation..
Wuk lamat died in the eyes of story enjoyers

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She's more of a warrior / ambassador than a leader - which is why she became co-rulers with her brother.
Dawntrail. Secretly based.

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Originally Posted by SteakDriven

Dawntrail. Secretly based.

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AKA Extremely Cringe

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

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I'm not even the person you quoted, but, truth be told, I agree with him. People can be negative, criticise in search of improvement, that's important. Express dissatisfaction is important.

The problem is that every criticism, even those that try to sound eloquent, sound incredibly disingenuous. People in this forum argue about "plotholes" made by their head cannons. They make mountains of what is a hill of each problem DT has. They disregard and trash-talk when someone speak of positive aspects of DT. They critique some aspects of DT while praising prior expansions same aspects, even the flaws. They make a scapegoat of an okay character to put all flaws onto it, when it's obvious not their fault of the problem that exist. They claim the story is simple and yet every argument the argue stuff as if they didn't even understood the story.

Hells, even WoW Shadowlands criticism of its own players at least had a better foundation than people making critiques of DT. It was even more polite too. Here? It feels like a tantrum. Why wouldn't people be dismissive towards it?

Reviews on Steam, as divise as they are, still show over 50% positive. Today, I spoke with a person that had just gotten in Living Memory and they were excited, they said SE outdid themselves this expansion and its good. They were happy, but those who have been enjoying it, are just playing the game and not sulking in the internet to yell dissatisfaction/satisfaction. But that doesn't matter. Only the negative echo chamber matters.

In sum, Dawntrail has its flaws, it deserves criticism over its flaws so SE can improve, but A LOT of the criticism is undeserving and those pile up over the genuine problems and now people just don't bother listening to the naysayers anymore. It isn't hard to understand why someone is dismissive, nor why all of the opinions are fractured. Those set in the "expansion trash" do the same towards anything positive and even try to mock someone just enjoying themselves.

But yeah, it is what it is.

People can't be held wholly responsible for the behavior of every single person that might roll up and share an opinion with them, on any side of the discussion. At a certain point you have to look past attitudes or not look at feedback at all. All data is a mess. You don't yell at the data, you process it. Some data just sucks more to process but that's life.

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Originally Posted by OMGJesuis66

The problem is that every criticism, even those that try to sound eloquent, sound incredibly disingenuous. People in this forum argue about "plotholes" made by their head cannons. They make mountains of what is a hill of each problem DT has. They disregard and trash-talk when someone speak of positive aspects of DT. They critique some aspects of DT while praising prior expansions same aspects, even the flaws. They make a scapegoat of an okay character to put all flaws onto it, when it's obvious not their fault of the problem that exist. They claim the story is simple and yet every argument the argue stuff as if they didn't even understood the story.

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This one is rich, you disregard the complains by telling the problems are not so bad, and telling those opinions are disingenious, while complaining about people disregarding positive comment. The irony is not lost on me.

This is what the FFXIV community is. For years, the exact same thing happened to people that dared to criticise FFXIV. It took the bad decision of Endwalker patches for the community to be allowed to say something negative without being trashed by the fans. But now they're not the majority anymore and complain about how they are treated, when it's exactly how they treated other for years. This community is not better than others, it's the champion of passive aggressive behaviour, unsaid ressentment and shutting down discording voice. Both side are the same, and your post is the exact same thing you complain about, you try to sound eloquent to put you above the mass to give your opinion some weight. For you it's ok but when they don't agree with you they're disingenuous. It may not be what you wanted to convey, but that's sure how it looks like.

Now there are opinion that feel over the top and try to make problems bigger than they are, but you decided that every criticism is like this...

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

This one is rich, you disregard the complains by telling the problems are not so bad, and telling those opinions are disingenious, while complaining about people disregarding positive comment. The irony is not lost on me.

This is what the FFXIV community is. For years, the exact same thing happened to people that dared to criticise FFXIV. It took the bad decision of Endwalker patches for the community to be allowed to say something negative without being trashed by the fans. But now they're not the majority anymore and complain about how they are treated, when it's exactly how they treated other for years. This community is not better than others, it's the champion of passive aggressive behaviour, unsaid ressentment and shutting down discording voice. Both side are the same, and your post is the exact same thing you complain about, you try to sound eloquent to put you above the mass to give your opinion some weight. For you it's ok but when they don't agree with you they're disingenuous. It may not be what you wanted to convey, but that's sure how it looks like.

Now there are opinion that feel over the top and try to make problems bigger than they are, but you decided that every criticism is like this...

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I believed I made myself clear enough for people to notice that I am pointing out the hypocrisy in the community for the precise same arguments you made. People criticise Dawntrail, while Endwalker, Shadowbringers, etc, had huge problems too but up to this day, you still can't criticise those. In fact, problems presented in other expansions repeated themseoves in DT, but theres a double standard in criticism. I pointed that on the very paragraph you quoted me. Seems like I wasn't clear enough. But, thank you for actually agreeing with my point!

There's no moral high horse here, I simply pointed out that most criticism are undeserved of the expansion, while acknowledgeding that criticism is important and deserved. But the pile given is a mess. And I am not SE, it's not my job to filter for decent criticism. I just don't look at data anymore, because the odds of being a bad criticism is huge.

That's the grave all the bashing of the expansion dug up, people will disregard it. There are many valid points that were brought about issues of the expansion, feel free to dig it up through everything else first, because others will not, and in fact will roll their eyes when they see so many people embrace bad takes that will permeate for the years to come. Common thing in this community.

To give a tiny bit of copium to a doomium thread. I do genuinely think we're not seeing Wuk Lamat past 7.3 if even that. Now this is purely speculation but, G'raha was re-introduced as basically a different character from his 2.X incarnation. I'd be lying if I said I even remembered G'raha past "Oh right that red cat boy with the Allagan eyes on the Crystal Tower stuff." As it has been like 7 years at that point since CT launched, and I'd never gone back to do the story on NG+ again when it was introduced. And I remember that being a common thing, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the reception OF the Exarch and his role in Shadowbringers (Both as the Exarch and as G'raha) were pretty much well received by everybody. So much so that speculation about 5.3 and whether or not him being in the patch art would mean he'd die was a negative thing to most people. Again, pure speculation, but if you ask me G'raha in the original plot outline for 5.1 - 5.3 was meant to die after SoS, but his popularity made them reconsider adding CT to the MSQ as a requirement so G'raha could continue existing as we know him now on the Source. Whether you like G'raha since EW is up in the air but that's my theory why they specifically made dialogue incase you hadn't done CT when 5.0 launched, when they were just gonna make it mandatory a year later.

Wuk Lamat isn't as popular, infact I'd argue she's as far from the Exarch's popularity as you can be. But like the Exarch, Wuk absolutely has a baked in reason to continue being a main character post 7.3 when we start setting up for Meracydia, or Hingashi, or the Void or whatever we're doing in 8.0. They could very easily have her go "I'm gonna join the Scions and the Warrior of Light across the Salt to learn about more cultures to be a better head of resolve." (Which is completely ignoring her just adopting Gulool Ja but hey she's basically Goku anyway, except not as endearing, her abandoning her adoptive child is pretty much a thing she would do). I just don't think this'll happen. I know that the devs are aware of Wuk's mixed reviews and if they have any sort of balls they'll continue the story arc no matter how much it pisses people off that they have planned for 7.1 - 7.3's MSQ. But I wholly believe Wuk is being shelved to side content hell after 7.3, I don't think the devs will use the "Learning about Cultures" excuse to have her join us beyond 7.3. In the same vein that Lyse wasn't one of the Scions that got Isekai'd to the First after the distaste people had for Lyse, right down to 5.2's Bozja Instance having us "Remember our closest companions" and picking the entire ShB crew including Ryne to fight Memory Varis. Obviously we're still.....11? Months off of 7.3, and who knows maybe they'll double down and keep her around, with her mug being the first thing we see in the CGI trailer for 8.0. But I wanna give some credit to the devs, they're not THAT stupid......right?

EW and SHB don't get the same criticism as DT because, as the critical reception shows, SHB and EW had a way higher ratio of highs to lows than DT. Yes they had slow moments, but then it would reward you with mind blowing, thematically relevant plot movement.

DT simply can't stick to a theme, being moreso composed of several unfocused and underdeveloped sub plots that get only lip service. SHB and EW don't have that problem. In those xpacs you were getting hours of cutscenes that were balancing character development and the themes virtually the whole entire 40 hours.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

EW and SHB don't get the same criticism as DT because, as the critical reception shows, SHB and EW had a way higher ratio of highs to lows than DT. Yes they had slow moments, but then it would reward you with mind blowing, thematically relevant plot movement.

DT simply can't stick to a theme, being moreso composed of several unfocused and underdeveloped sub plots that get only lip service. SHB and EW don't have that problem. In those xpacs you were getting hours of cutscenes that were balancing character development and the themes virtually the whole entire 40 hours.

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DT has a very strong theme IMO (it’s probably the strongest representation of legacy in the game even more so than elpis and the ancients) it’s just it’s done in such a “make it understandable for 4 year olds” way that it brings it down

Seriously nobody could develop the theme in a more detailed and pronounced way than “remember on a rock good, remember as endless bad”

I'm not surprised ether by the mix. To me DT is a trash expansion the worst of all the expansions.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

DT has a very strong theme IMO (it’s probably the strongest representation of legacy in the game even more so than elpis and the ancients) it’s just it’s done in such a “make it understandable for 4 year olds” way that it brings it down

Seriously nobody could develop the theme in a more detailed and pronounced way than “remember on a rock good, remember as endless bad”

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But there's hours of time where you're not dealing with legacy. Sometimes you are dealing with learning cultures (doesn't count as legacy just because you're learning about historical customs either), sometimes you're in Shaalooni, sometimes you're solving racism in 5 minutes. Just because legacy is explored at some points with a hammer doesn't mean all 40 hours effectively tie into it.

I'd also argue that I'm unsure how you took "legacy" from the final zone. Final zone was juggling regret, parenthood, family, what living is. Once again just because Endless are from the past, does not mean the theme of legacy was properly explored there.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

But there's hours of time where you're not dealing with legacy. Sometimes you are dealing with learning cultures (doesn't count as legacy just because you're learning about historical customs either), sometimes you're in Shaalooni, sometimes you're solving racism in 5 minutes. Just because legacy is explored at some points with a hammer doesn't mean all 40 hours effectively tie into it.

I'd also argue that I'm unsure how you took "legacy" from the final zone. Final zone was juggling regret, parenthood, family, what living is. Once again just because Endless are from the past, does not mean the theme of legacy was properly explored there.

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Literally, all you quoted is Legacy. Legacy stands for the long-lasting impact of particular events, actions, etc. that took place in the past, or in a person’s life.
Learning about cultures and historical customs is the legacy left from previous generations to the newest ones, even more so as the newest ones are ignorant to those. The racism is a subproduct of a legacy. Parenthood, family, and what legacies they leave for their kids.
Living X Death and the legacy left by those who passed. They approached several facets of the theme legacy, it's literally stamped on everything and every single arc. Even Zoraal Ja's motivation of 'the young forgot the dread of war' is a product of a legacy of peace.

It is /everywhere/.

honestly i think the main problem in DT (aside from the brown cat) is that everything went by too fast.

we get problem after problem but we finish it all in a matter of minutes, if it me i would lessen the "trial" to 3, remove the "banana leaf", the festival and either the goblin or the alpaca (make as side quest), focus more on the serious part which is the mamook, the giant (bird) and either the goblin or the alpaca. the alpaca/goblin represent the "easy sun shine and rainbow step" of the trial, the giant bird and the mamook get the highlight to point the seriousness of the story

like for real, the giant bird conclude waaay to fast, it suppose to be a lethal threat but we just defeat it just like that with power of friendship, it suppose to beat us to show the reality fact that wuk friendship is everything is complete bs and sometime strong power is needed yadayada (maybe the giant bird left after we beat it and appear somewhere later etc)

and again in mamook village it should open wuk eyes wide and open that not everything can be solved by taco or "just trust me dude" conversation

even long time winner athlete didnt win with perfect score, wuk story suppose to be up and down like roller coaster, thats how we feel the excitement, a roller coaster that goes straight and nothing else like how wuk solved everything with perfect score is not how you bring enjoyable ride

whoever write wuk lamat clearly has either strong simp feeling or self insert (or hate wol and think wuk should be the main character) so much that he want wuk as the embodiment of perfect character with no flaw, but in reality it just make her boring, alphinaud was labelled as boring character until he got his wake up call during his "create my own company" arc, after that people start liking him and even more after his sibling spice up the company

wuk lamat has... no one, her companion should be erenville and us but instead of dancing along with us, she dance alone and outshine everyone else, the world didnt orbit around her, she just move on her own and use everyone else as stepping stone and discard them in the end and the worst part? we all happy with it, we just the yes man for her

imagine you play 5 v 5 in a match, and one person in your team has aimbot and can tele instantly to the opponent and kill them all in a matter of second, what so enjoyable about that? you either leave, or hate the person, or just ride along with it (the yes man, in this case we wol and everyone choose this option)

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Originally Posted by gumas

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This was kind of why I hated Endwalker. Just the fact that everything was kind of presented as "WOW LOOK AT WHERE YOU ARE! WHOA DID X-THING JUST HAPPEN?!?!.....alright it's done, move on" and then we just...move on and that's that. I hated Endwalker and the story more because they decided to "rush" everything, and essentially shove a whole expansion worth of potential stuff into JUST 6.0. Then they proceeded to do the same thing with the post-patch story and turn the void, which absolutely could've/SHOULD'VE been it's own expansion give huge it's been to the game since 2.0, into a condensed speedrun of FF4's core villains and reduced the story to "Just another typical Tuesday for us scions as we teach people friendship is the ultimate power" as we punch a god and then all is fine and well and we move on and the void has been "fixed" just like that.

They essentially did "quantity over quality" with Dawntrail and just tried to shove as much into one "story" as possible and made every story beat resolve as fast as possible to get you moving right on to the next because of it. As a result: nothing really had time to "cook" because by the time you even start to digest what you've been given, the story tells you to move on already to the next course and to stop thinking about what you just ate. They put so much time into pushing the "contest for the throne as you look for the city of gold" as the plot during the keynotes...and it was completely finished after 3 zones. Then it suddenly shifts from "Help this annoying cat win her contest for her nation's throne" to "Help this annoying cat stop a robot girl from another shard from genociding the entire world." The writers essentially wrote two COMPLETELY different stories for their fursona OC MC to god-mode her way through and then had to find someway to shove them together to make it all work, and that's what Dawntrail was; some amalgamation of two completely separate stories shoved into one and forced to make "work" when they should've just been two separate stories.

I'm really just hoping the post-patch story isn't going to be the same quality as the 7.0 MSQ, because if it is...
It's gonna be a loooooong 2 years.

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Originally Posted by PassinLay

You do know DT has 39% positive reviews for recent reviews on steam right ? And 57% overall?

You can keep coping bud.

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That's not as massive as you think it is, only 4,067 reviews on steam for DT a rain drop comparison too FF14's player base. Only 3,846 came from players who purchased DT off steam at the time of this post. Its been said time and time again Steam is a small sample not even %1 of the games player base.

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Originally Posted by Uncle_Jafar

link to the article:
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/final-...no-not-really/

from the article:

"This being a game, it's a form of entertainment, and you'll always see some form of mixed response to entertainment," Yoshi-P begins, "A second factor is that with Endwalker, we reached a big climax to a long-standing, spanning story. To a certain extent I had already predicted that we would have some sort of mixed response this time.

"So If the question is whether I was shocked in a big way, the answer is no, not really."

"We depicted Wuk Lamat as someone who had a bit of a complex towards her parents and also towards her siblings, and because of that lack of confidence, I think that also contributed to the slow pace and the feeling of frustration.

"If we had maybe portrayed her as more of a confident character, maybe we would not have encountered that kind of situation. So in that regard, I feel that we did something quite bad for Wuk Lamat as a character. And taking on this experience, it made me realise that it's important to consider those things when it comes to showcasing the character to the players."

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Mr. Yoshida ur new writer is shit and is treating the people like they're 10 yrs old with the way the story is written. Thats it. God. Im gonna brace myself for more WL in the patches then. Or maybe its time for me to start skipping cutscenes. I managed to resist the dark urge during the main MSQ but with the way he is speaking here, I'm quite losing hope LOL.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

That's not as massive as you think it is, only 4,067 reviews on steam for DT a rain drop comparison too FF14's player base. Only 3,846 came from players who purchased DT off steam at the time of this post. Its been said time and time again Steam is a small sample not even %1 of the games player base.

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It’s still a valid sample size, more than enough even. It doesn’t matter that steam is just a small percentage of players. That’s how samples work.
Other sides also give a mixed review for the most part.

I don’t understand that opinion tbh.
People were praising the user scores and reviews of Shb and EW but as soon as it is not so great it doesn’t matter anymore.
Same as the popularity poll where some tried to spin it as not so important or wrong.

Thousands of reviews that ALSO include positive 10/10 and deleted negative reviews are more than enough to get to a conclusion and steam even needs you to have the game. It is probably the most fair score plattform we have.

Measurement systems for Industrial machines are green light with far less samples once 50 and once 25x2b(not the same I know but just to give an example).
Where do we draw the line for user ratings to be acceptable?

DT had a mixed reception that is fact and even Yoshida is saying as much.

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Originally Posted by SeriousPan

YoshiP can't throw his staff under the bus and blame their bad writing for where we're at in the story. It's not good for morale and would just make him look bad to all his staff. There's no way he's this genuinely ignorant on why Wuk Lamat failed. I guess he's instead choosing one thing that won't cause any blame to be thrown on his writing teams ineptitude.

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Originally Posted by Yoshida

I feel that we did something quite bad for Wuk Lamat as a character.

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I'd kill to see the Japanese of the interview

Edit ok... かなり悪いことをした is pretty strong.

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Originally Posted by yoshida

ですから、その点では私たちはウクラマトというキャラクターに対してかなり悪いことをしたと感じています。

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Which I translate in context as (Therefore, in this regard, we feel that we did something quite bad for Wuk Lamat as a character.)

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Originally Posted by Yoshida

"There were story developments that could have been relegated to side quests. If someone wanted to know more about those, they could have played side quests at their own leisure and enjoyed them at their own pace."

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(This is from the 2chan transcription)

A lot of Poochie was little more than a side quest.

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Originally Posted by Willemdarke

Same, I have 2 weeks left on my sub and won't be returning unless there's a major shake up. Yoshi-P's response isn't even PR talk, it's just completely tone deaf...

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My subscription-runout is about 2 weeks too.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

That's not as massive as you think it is, only 4,067 reviews on steam for DT a rain drop comparison too FF14's player base. Only 3,846 came from players who purchased DT off steam at the time of this post. Its been said time and time again Steam is a small sample not even %1 of the games player base.

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Except 4k reviews is almost double the recommended sample size, go and play with a stats simulator.

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Originally Posted by OMGJesuis66

Literally, all you quoted is Legacy. Legacy stands for the long-lasting impact of particular events, actions, etc. that took place in the past, or in a person’s life.
Learning about cultures and historical customs is the legacy left from previous generations to the newest ones, even more so as the newest ones are ignorant to those. The racism is a subproduct of a legacy. Parenthood, family, and what legacies they leave for their kids.
Living X Death and the legacy left by those who passed. They approached several facets of the theme legacy, it's literally stamped on everything and every single arc. Even Zoraal Ja's motivation of 'the young forgot the dread of war' is a product of a legacy of peace.

It is /everywhere/.

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That's not how exploring themes works. This is like saying the game properly explored biology because all the characters can breathe. Just because something is from the past does not mean legacy was explored.

Lots of things are *everywhere*. Colors, the English language, water. Is the story saying anything about those things? No it is not. That is not how storytelling works. You do not simply write whatever and claim you properly explored the subject. To be clear, characters may reference legacy-- its not like it isn't mentioned at all, it's just lip service as originally said. Surface level. Whatever you want to call it. By your logic, all life is about legacy constabtly because every moment of every day things are drifting into the past and by thinking about it or writing about it you are inherently exploring legacy. Everything is a product of legacy because it happened due to some other event that preceeded it. That's redundant, as redundant as DT.

I also didn't say the story didn't have a theme. I said it's composed of many disjointed subplots that result in something less impactful than it normally would be.

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Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Remember when Gulool Ja Ja solved decades of generational hatred and conflict with tacos? Or how we fix the decades of resentment and mistrust with the residents of Mamook in an afternoon by just chatting with them? Expect more of this in the future.

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As much as I would love to meme on the power of tacos, yes, this really was dumb.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

That's not as massive as you think it is, only 4,067 reviews on steam for DT a rain drop comparison too FF14's player base. Only 3,846 came from players who purchased DT off steam at the time of this post. Its been said time and time again Steam is a small sample not even %1 of the games player base.

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Tell me you dont know how statistics work without telling me you dont know how statistics work

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

That's not how exploring themes works. This is like saying the game properly explored biology because all the characters can breathe. Just because something is from the past does not mean legacy was explored.

Lots of things are *everywhere*. Colors, the English language, water. Is the story saying anything about those things? No it is not. That is not how storytelling works. You do not simply write whatever and claim you properly explored the subject. To be clear, characters may reference legacy-- its not like it isn't mentioned at all, it's just lip service as originally said. Surface level. Whatever you want to call it. By your logic, all life is about legacy constabtly because every moment of every day things are drifting into the past and by thinking about it or writing about it you are inherently exploring legacy. Everything is a product of legacy because it happened due to some other event that preceeded it. That's redundant, as redundant as DT.

I also didn't say the story didn't have a theme. I said it's composed of many disjointed subplots that result in something less impactful than it normally would be.

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Don't know what to tell you. The theme was noticeable from learning about Tural saga, following Gulool Ja Ja footsteps, to Zoraal Ja grudge beyond his impostor syndrome to even in the dialogue with "Spheeene! LISSSTEN TO MEE!."

It felt very on the nose and to some, quite simplistic, but... Sure. Few were the character and zone arcs that didn't dabble on that theme as core concept for the rest of the writing.

If you can give me examples of how it should be done in the DT scenario, I would appreciate.

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Originally Posted by Voidmage

It’s still a valid sample size, more than enough even. It doesn’t matter that steam is just a small percentage of players. That’s how samples work.
Other sides also give a mixed review for the most part.

I don’t understand that opinion tbh.
People were praising the user scores and reviews of Shb and EW but as soon as it is not so great it doesn’t matter anymore.
Same as the popularity poll where some tried to spin it as not so important or wrong.

Thousands of reviews that ALSO include positive 10/10 and deleted negative reviews are more than enough to get to a conclusion and steam even needs you to have the game. It is probably the most fair score plattform we have.

Measurement systems for Industrial machines are green light with far less samples once 50 and once 25x2b(not the same I know but just to give an example).
Where do we draw the line for user ratings to be acceptable?

DT had a mixed reception that is fact and even Yoshida is saying as much.

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Yes look at multiole sources exactly. Never trust one source which why people call steam a small sample. Trusting one source is just asking to get proven wrong. In DT case its not wrong but only a fool would rely on one source and a small one at that.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Yes look at multiole sources exactly. Never trust one source which why people call steam a small sample. Trusting one source is just asking to get proven wrong. In DT case its not wrong but only a fool would rely on one source and a small one at that.

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Ok, then show us what you have. I'm all eyes open.

Please prove steam wrong.

Either show something, or just stop with "yeah well that's only one source it doesnt prove anything"

Show us your sources then.

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Originally Posted by PassinLay

Ok, then show us what you have. I'm all eyes open.

Please prove steam wrong.

Either show something, or just stop with "yeah well that's only one source it doesnt prove anything"

Show us your sources then.

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They have the greatest source possible on the internet.
The good ol "trust me."

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Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Remember when Gulool Ja Ja solved decades of generational hatred and conflict with tacos? Or how we fix the decades of resentment and mistrust with the residents of Mamook in an afternoon by just chatting with them? Expect more of this in the future.

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This scares me greatly. This is what people mean when they say the writing has gotten so.. juvenile and simplistic. You can have as many dead baby caves as you want, if you write the world in a nonsensical way it doesn't make it more mature.

Could you imagine Wuk Lamat talking to Yotsuyu or Fordola? It's hard to even imagine these characters are from the same game.

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Originally Posted by OMGJesuis66

"Spheeene! LISSSTEN TO MEE!."

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OMG THE VOICES IN MY HEAD

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Originally Posted by PassinLay

Tell me you dont know how statistics work without telling me you dont know how statistics work

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I find comments like this amusing when the position they're indirectly "supporting" in the process would fall victim to the same exact claim. Things like Steam reviews are "voluntary samples," which anyone with even an elementary knowledge of statistics knows is the most unreliable type of sample possible for generalizing.

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Ok, then show us what you have. I'm all eyes open.

Please prove steam wrong.

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I'd recommend looking at YT videos for another source of data. Here, you'll find comments trashing DT getting up to around 200 or so "upvotes." You'll also find some videos trashing DT getting a similar amount on YT. However, you'll also find positive comments on YT getting close to 1000 upvotes.

Or we could use Steam data that simply involves people choosing to play the game. The post-launch month data is now available, and DT's retention rate is right on par with every other expansion (DT = 68%; EW = 68%; ShB = 72%; SB = 70%; HW = 65%). If this expansion is truly seen as being as terrible as people here want to suggest, it should be reflected in people leaving. It's also noteworthy that the pure total number of active players on Steam right now is almost the highest of all time (beaten only by the release month of DT itself and that brief period of time when FFXIV spiked because of the "WoW Exodus"). The active Steam playerbase right now (the month *after* DT released) is 4x higher than HW and SB's release months, and 1.5x higher than ShB's population one month after release.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I find comments like this amusing when the position they're indirectly "supporting" in the process would fall victim to the same exact claim. Things like Steam reviews are "voluntary samples," which anyone with even an elementary knowledge of statistics knows is the most unreliable type of sample possible for generalizing.



I'd recommend looking at YT videos for another source of data. Here, you'll find comments trashing DT getting up to around 200 or so "upvotes." You'll also find some videos trashing DT getting a similar amount on YT. However, you'll also find positive comments on YT getting close to 1000 upvotes.

Or we could use Steam data that simply involves people choosing to play the game. The post-launch month data is now available, and DT's retention rate is right on par with every other expansion (DT = 68%; EW = 68%; ShB = 72%; SB = 70%; HW = 65%). If this expansion is truly seen as being as terrible as people here want to suggest, it should be reflected in people leaving. It's also noteworthy that the pure total number of active players on Steam right now is almost the highest of all time (beaten only by the release month of DT itself and that brief period of time when FFXIV spiked because of the "WoW Exodus"). The active Steam playerbase right now (the month *after* DT released) is 4x higher than HW and SB's release months, and 1.5x higher than ShB's population one month after release.

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I'm not looking at youtube videos and comments for reviews on a game lmao.

Please provide a proper source, such as the steam one, until then, you have absolutely nothing.

'I knew DT was going to be a flop, but was quite happy to charge full price for a rubbish story, wildly undertuned savage, post-purchase destruction of viper as an interesting job, and the promise of some good content down the line. Please enjoy daily roulettes through 2 dungeons for the next 4 months.'

Something like that.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Yeah - I think Wuk Lamat alone would be an absolute disaster in that scenario - the "I want to understand you" mindset would've prompted a response she wouldn't be equipped to address. Koana, however, would very likely fare better... assuming he could get Wuk Lamat to shut the hell up!

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The reason why I picked that moment is it highlights that while none of the leaders are perfect, they can all be taken seriously. Even the Sultana who was thrust into power as a child is more of an actual ruler than Wuk. And most importantly, my character wasn't the one who put these people in charge. If some old man put Lyse in charge cause her dad was a rebel leader or something, that has nothing to do with me. I don't get how YoshiP doesn't get why some people would not want to spend an entire expansion installing literal comic relief as the leader of a sovereign nation. Why would we do that? Cause she likes peace? Koana likes peace and more importantly, he isn't so dumb he needs us to carry his bags to make sure he doesn't drop anything. She's written like a toddler.

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Originally Posted by Mainasu

This scares me greatly. This is what people mean when they say the writing has gotten so.. juvenile and simplistic. You can have as many dead baby caves as you want, if you write the world in a nonsensical way it doesn't make it more mature.

Could you imagine Wuk Lamat talking to Yotsuyu or Fordola? It's hard to even imagine these characters are from the same game.

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The idea of her trying to get Yotsuyu to reconcile with Doma because she "understands the pain of family hurting you" or whatever is hilarious and would probably result in one of her eyes getting stabbed out with a pipe.

This will be the stormblood expansion. Below average - average MSQ. Great endgame content.

If DT had an amazing story the only thing people would complain about would be cosmetics and job design.

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Originally Posted by Derio

This will be the stormblood expansion. Below average - average MSQ. Great endgame content.

If DT had an amazing story the only thing people would complain about would be cosmetics and job design.

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but stormblood job system was great at that time.. huge changes from HW to SB regarding job design.

the worst thing is 4.0 story is bad, other things was from good to great

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Originally Posted by Daralii

The idea of her trying to get Yotsuyu to reconcile with Doma because she "understands the pain of family hurting you" or whatever is hilarious and would probably result in one of her eyes getting stabbed out with a pipe.

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I would have liked to have her be challenged with something like that, hearing something so horrible like what happened with Yotsuyu just shattering her worldview. It doesn't mean she has to completely change right there, but it should teach her you can't just TELL people to be peaceful and happy because you love peace and happiness, and you certainly can't tell them to just rely on the love of family.. because many aren't fortunate enough to have that be a comfort.

Instead, the writers have made Tural (and Alexandria) a land of simple people with simple problems and simple solutions. It's the antithesis to what made a lot of the world building and tone of the MSQ so compelling, because it asks that the player DOESN'T think about it too much.

Again, it's hard to not dwell on this stuff when you hear Yoshi's response to the MSQ's reception and it's so disconnected from what the actual issues with the writing are. It doesn't inspire a lot of confidence going forward when he talks like a boss who intentionally will twist your question into something you didn't ask. I just don't believe the language barrier is causing that much of a rift, when a lot of Japanese players have the same concerns as us.

Why would he be shocked?

We still are all here after all these years of crying and telling we'd unsub but here we are.

Man is swimming in money, he can prob buy that boat he'd always wanted.

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Originally Posted by Mainasu

This scares me greatly. This is what people mean when they say the writing has gotten so.. juvenile and simplistic. You can have as many dead baby caves as you want, if you write the world in a nonsensical way it doesn't make it more mature.

Could you imagine Wuk Lamat talking to Yotsuyu or Fordola? It's hard to even imagine these characters are from the same game.

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"sᴜʏᴜᴜᴜᴜ, ʟɪsᴛᴇɴ ᴛᴏ ᴍᴇ!"

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Originally Posted by ZXN

"sᴜʏᴜᴜᴜᴜ, ʟɪsᴛᴇɴ ᴛᴏ ᴍᴇ!"

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"Wow you were horribly abused by your family for your whole childhood? Cowabummer Tsuyu, but your moping is ruining my appetite! Anyways let's go have some skibidi pibil I'm starving"

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Originally Posted by Mainasu

This scares me greatly. This is what people mean when they say the writing has gotten so.. juvenile and simplistic. You can have as many dead baby caves as you want, if you write the world in a nonsensical way it doesn't make it more mature.

Could you imagine Wuk Lamat talking to Yotsuyu or Fordola? It's hard to even imagine these characters are from the same game.

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I think having her be such a focus and someone in an influential position is a problem, but she's a lot like Emmanellain so we've already seen wildly different types of characters in the game. I couldn't see him talking to Yotsuyu or Fordola either. But it's his more responsible brother that has the position of influence, not him.