Healers need an overhaul

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I’m not in favor of adding DPS tools to healer but I’m in favor of turning the damage up by 200% to actually make the healing relevant.

If healers got say, a soft caster rotation. This would still have healers but underwhelming and basically kill off healer roles for glorified support

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Then just continue hitting Fall Glaroilosis and let the rest of us have a full DPS toolkit. No one will force you to do anything, so continue to button mash.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Because there's a hidden issue people forget about, and that is console players. MMORPGs are never made to be played on a console, unless they can actually pull it off correctly (like TERA did, and worked well). Since people have to shuffle between buttons so much, the reality of the matter is the homogenization of all jobs, not just healers. As we move further into more expansions, more skills will be added, and many more sacrificed, leading to simple 1 button mash in the long run.

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Stop using console players as an excuse. This game has great controller support and you can comfortably play every role. Healing especially feels easier on controller. Button bloat is an issue for everyone, K+M users included, but it's an issue that can be resolved easily. We have plenty of skills that can be deleted or merged together.

Jobs are being homogenized because that's what SE wants as their goal is to make the game "accessible", which means that every job is progressively getting to the point where the skill floor is very close to the ceiling. It has nothing to do with consoles, controllers and button bloat.

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Originally Posted by rewd

Stop using console players as an excuse. This game has great controller support and you can comfortably play every role. Healing especially feels easier on controller. Button bloat is an issue for everyone, K+M users included, but it's an issue that can be resolved easily. We have plenty of skills that can be deleted or merged together.

Jobs are being homogenized because that's what SE wants as their goal is to make the game "accessible", which means that every job is progressively getting to the point where the skill floor is very close to the ceiling. It has nothing to do with consoles, controllers and button bloat.

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Yeah, solution could be grouping some skills together to make space for new ones. You know, pvp style? More combo skills? But people don't want that either, so off to trash they go. Having the game more accessible is fine, but this requires a solution soon, otherwise by next expansion it may get very ugly for all jobs and players. I've seen this happen before.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

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*headdesk*

Savage raiders spend 60%+ of every raid spamming one button. What do you think happens in easier content?

Do...do you think more healing is somehow needed in easier content? How do you not understand that healing being boring in Savage and Ultimate means that healing is also boring everywhere else?!

I don't raid Savage. I quit healing three years ago because it was incredibly boring. Dungeon bosses are a joke. 24-mans only need healing when it's an absolute clownfest. MSQing as a healer is a prescription-strength sleep aid (you can't heal mobs to death, y'know). Tanks now have so much self-sustain that healers are flat-out unnecessary in most content. Literally only two current fights in the game require healers: P3S and P4S.

Why do you think healers should be happy about this? Why should healers accept being unnecessary and boring to play in 99% of the game? The only reason, the only reason, I can come up with is that you lot want healing to be the ticket to a free, zero-effort carry through content.

From now on, "If you want to DPS, play a DPS," should be answered with, "If you want to mindlessly press one button to win, play Cookie Clicker."

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Yeah, solution could be grouping some skills together to make space for new ones. You know, pvp style? More combo skills? But people don't want that either, so off to trash they go. Having the game more accessible is fine, but this requires a solution soon, otherwise by next expansion it may get very ugly for all jobs and players. I've seen this happen before.

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The reason to be against PvP-style consolidation is the fact that people are aware of SE shenanigans. Reducing 123 combos to their PvP counterparts is a good way to get some space for new skills/mechanics, but this is not SE's goal. What we'd get, realistically, are PvP combos with nothing new.

This is also the reason why reworks are generally seen negatively by the playerbase. MCH and SMN have now a lot of space to use for new stuff, but will they get it? MCH is already an expansion late and SMN will follow the next path.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

Because there's a hidden issue people forget about, and that is console players. MMORPGs are never made to be played on a console, unless they can actually pull it off correctly (like TERA did, and worked well). Since people have to shuffle between buttons so much, the reality of the matter is the homogenization of all jobs, not just healers. As we move further into more expansions, more skills will be added, and many more sacrificed, leading to simple 1 button mash in the long run.

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Lol, FFXIV probably has the best controller support out of any MMO, it's as if it was made to mimick a Final Fantasy on console from the start. And that is coming from someone playing healer since ARR, with constant target swapping for heals/dots, fairy positioning and stance switching.

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Originally Posted by rewd

The reason to be against PvP-style consolidation is the fact that people are aware of SE shenanigans. Reducing 123 combos to their PvP counterparts is a good way to get some space for new skills/mechanics, but this is not SE's goal. What we'd get, realistically, are PvP combos with nothing new.

This is also the reason why reworks are generally seen negatively by the playerbase. MCH and SMN have now a lot of space to use for new stuff, but will they get it? MCH is already an expansion late and SMN will follow the next path.

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The thing about 1-2-3 combos is some jobs need them to be separate and others don't. On MNK, it wouldn't make sense because you have 9 different combo buttons, 6 of which are moved between somewhat fluidly. It's not always 1-2-3, 4-5-6. Sometimes its 1-5-3 or 4-2-3 and that warrants each button being separate. MCH on the other hand just has 3 buttons you always use in the same order and thus don't really need to be separate buttons. There's no choice in the making. There's no buff that makes you go "oh now I'm going to spam 3-3-3." If they condensed MCH's combo into 1 button but added something of more value or choice to MCH's gameplay, that would be a very good trade. Would they give it something of value and choice, though? Who knows.

11111111211111311111131111111411111211111111111

Oh, sorry I thought I was playing my healer in game.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I’m not in favor of adding DPS tools to healer but I’m in favor of turning the damage up by 200% to actually make the healing relevant.

If healers got say, a soft caster rotation. This would still have healers but underwhelming and basically kill off healer roles for glorified support

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Tell me you're lazy without telling me you're lazy.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Overall, it's not worth the effort to appease the minority of people who feel that endgame is not keeping them busy enough with healing. Not to mention people who raids savages are already a minority..

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In Aglaia, which is a brand new 24 man raid, I have literally gone entire runs without casting a single GCD heal. Every single one of my button presses, all several hundred of them, were dedicated to Dosis III and Eukrasian Dosis III, which is also the same button. The meager amount of healing I did do came from oGCDs. Even those were often burned for MP because Sage actually throws out worthless heals just to regenerate MP. In a Copied Factory run not long after Endwalker's release, I pressed Dosis II 500 times; more than literally every other ability in my entire kit combined.

Below Savage, healing barely even exists nowadays. It wasn't much better in Shadowbringers either. Even at the Savage level, you'll hardly need your kit beyond the first few weeks. And only for the last two fights. Ultimate will release tomorrow and I can guarantee you when it's cleared, the nuke equivalent on each healer will dwarf every other ability they press. The hardest piece of content in the game and they'll still be pressing 1111111111111111111 for the vast majority of it.

I am so sick of the “bwut the newbwies mwight fwind it hard if we added more dwamage skills.” Like god damnit, if you’re finding something you’re doing too hard, then go back to something easier and practice. If you can’t heal EW dungeons, then go practice ShB ones until you’re comfortable, etc.

Why the hell do SO MANY people have NO desire to learn, practice, and improve? Why do even the devs themselves think that everyone is incapable of getting better at the game? Why do they think that everyone is like, born into a static/unchanging skill level or something? It’s an insufferable excuse for actively refusing to design even remotely decent healers in an mmo. Ever since ShB I’ve honestly been wondering why this is even a trinity mmo anymore, when the devs just don’t give a shit about 1/3 of the roles.

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Originally Posted by Haventale

I am so sick of the “bwut the newbwies mwight fwind it hard if we added more dwamage skills.” Like god damnit, if you’re finding something you’re doing too hard, then go back to something easier and practice. If you can’t heal EW dungeons, then go practice ShB ones until you’re comfortable, etc.

Why the hell do SO MANY people have NO desire to learn, practice, and improve? Why do even the devs themselves think that everyone is incapable of getting better at the game? Why do they think that everyone is like, born into a static/unchanging skill level or something? It’s an insufferable excuse for actively refusing to design even remotely decent healers in an mmo. Ever since ShB I’ve honestly been wondering why this is even a trinity mmo anymore, when the devs just don’t give a shit about 1/3 of the roles.

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I'm honestly just convinced the devs are the types of players who get REALLY upset when they wipe and immediately blame it on the healer and then think "I didn't see that healer casting Medica/Helios/Succor at all! They just want to DPS! This is ridiculous, don't they know they're supposed to heal?!" rather than any altruism towards "the baby healers."

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

I'm honestly just convinced the devs are the types of players who get REALLY upset when they wipe and immediately blame it on the healer and then think "I didn't see that healer casting Medica/Helios/Succor at all! They just want to DPS! This is ridiculous, don't they know they're supposed to heal?!" rather than any altruism towards "the baby healers."

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I liken it more to an overprotective parent because I genuinely believe they have good intentions. Just based on interviews and Live Letters throughout the years, they often seem concerned to hear players struggling in any way whatsoever. We've seen it with Ultimate, where they seemingly don't even want to design fights of this scale because of their difficulty. I wouldn't be surprised if they see players failing mechanics and wiping several times as a failure on their part. Occasional wipes, especially day one are okay but I don't think they like seeing it more than the initial moment.

Of course, this is all conjunction. I've just long held that belief based on how much more excited they seem talking about content like Diadem, Bozja or Island Sanctuary than anything battle related. In the case of the latter, Yoshida admitted a lot of the dev team plays Harvest Moon, which Island Sanctuary is inspired from. Very few of them raid, let alone at a decent level.

Nevertheles, the broken road is paved with good intentions.

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Originally Posted by Haventale

I am so sick of the “bwut the newbwies mwight fwind it hard if we added more dwamage skills.” Like god damnit, if you’re finding something you’re doing too hard, then go back to something easier and practice. If you can’t heal EW dungeons, then go practice ShB ones until you’re comfortable, etc.

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it also makes little sense because if you actually pay attention and look at how a new healer is playing, youll see that they dont wipe because of failing to dps. new healers don't know how or when to heal. it has nothing to do with dps. they'll use cure 1 and let the tank drop cuz theyre not using bene/asylum/tetra/assize, theyll randomly cast succor when only 1 person is low on hp and let them die to a raidwide, they'll fail to use mitigation on someone with a vuln stack, etc. only a way more experienced healer that starts to take risks lets people accidentally die to unavoidable damage because maybe they thought the heal they used was enough, or maybe they were a bit late on the press, but by that point that healer is no longer a newbie and they can recognize their mistake.

and that's OK. its a learning experience. however its all tied to situational awareness and the sheer amount of healing buttons there are. why was the solution then to get rid of dps skills when they werent the culprit?

they should instead get rid of weak and useless healing skills. if you want people not to fail youre better off removing the bad options. why is cure1 still even a thing when its probably the biggest reason new healers let tanks die? why do they nerf scholars fairy every expansion when its a safety cushion? why do they keep adding more ogcd heals when newbies never even touch those? they should instead make dps reward players with healing so people feel safer.

they removed none of the newbie pitfalls and all of what made mastery rewarding.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

it also makes little sense because if you actually pay attention and look at how a new healer is playing, youll see that they dont wipe because of failing to dps. new healers don't know how or when to heal. it has nothing to do with dps. they'll use cure 1 and let the tank drop cuz theyre not using bene/asylum/tetra/assize, theyll randomly cast succor when only 1 person is low on hp and let them die to a raidwide, they'll fail to use mitigation on someone with a vuln stack, etc. only a way more experienced healer that starts to take risks lets people accidentally die to unavoidable damage because maybe they thought the heal they used was enough, or maybe they were a bit late on the press, but by that point that healer is no longer a newbie and they can recognize their mistake.

and that's OK. its a learning experience. however its all tied to situational awareness and the sheer amount of healing buttons there are. why was the solution then to get rid of dps skills when they werent the culprit?

they should instead get rid of weak and useless healing skills. if you want people not to fail youre better off removing the bad options. why is cure1 still even a thing when its probably the biggest reason new healers let tanks die? why do they nerf scholars fairy every expansion when its a safety cushion? why do they keep adding more ogcd heals when newbies never even touch those? they should instead make dps reward players with healing so people feel safer.

they removed none of the newbie pitfalls and all of what made mastery rewarding.

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Something I've been saying for a while is that GCD healing is often used as a clutch for new or learning healers, yet they take away your DPS, eat through your MP, and don't even heal as good as OGCD heals do typically. GCD healing could afford to be far stronger to act as a safety net for inexperienced healers while skilled healers will continue to avoid them so long as they're a loss to your DPS. You could give Helios a potency of 2000 and good AST players will still use it as a last resort because if you can get through content using OGCD heals and keeping up your damage, you'll still perform better than an AST who stops to cast Helios. Not saying that's the exact solution, but you get the idea.

I agree with Lestat.

I remember when it was necessary to reposition the fairy to prevent her from dying in combat.

Now, not even the AST cards make as much sense as before, just now knowing the color around the card to know what each card does...

I miss this kind of complexity as it was before, but I understand the reason for the changes. The game has become more friendly to newbies and casual gamers.

However, there is a side effect of this decision on other players like us.

I feel like they pushed the changes to something too simplistic. There must be a balance between the opposites and they need to understand what that point is for healers. Or else, they should expand the scope of construction possibilities of each healer job (perhaps non-linear variations beyond lv90?).

I had a minor thought after playing SGE in PvP. How cool would it be if PvP pneuma replaced eukrasian prognosis, panhaima, and pneuma in PvE. If pneuma gave everyone panhaima, was on a 30 second cooldown, you could consume panhaima with pepsis, and maybe if it had two charges I think that could be a lot of fun and would make sage feel more unique. Yeah, I’m on hopium but it’s fun to think about.

I've been playing WoW lately, and honestly healers in that game are such a breath of "fresh" air. Even thought WoW healing has a "sustain" based design, meaning you are mostly expected to constantly be casting healing spells to slowly fill up the health bars, the healer kits are designed with Downtime in mind. You have Procs, small rotations and even Damage/healing synergies. Also CC is quite important in the harder Dungeons. It really makes the 1 button spam of FFXIV's healer extremely bland and boring in comparison.

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Originally Posted by GrimGale

I've been playing WoW lately, and honestly healers in that game are such a breath of "fresh" air. Even thought WoW healing has a "sustain" based design, meaning you are mostly expected to constantly be casting healing spells to slowly fill up the health bars, the healer kits are designed with Downtime in mind. You have Procs, small rotations and even Damage/healing synergies. Also CC is quite important in the harder Dungeons. It really makes the 1 button spam of FFXIV's healer extremely bland and boring in comparison.

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Dude same. I tried disc priest bc I heard a lot of people say it was similar to sage. I WISH sage was designed like disc priest. That basic design of “75% if your healing is done through constantly dealing damage” would translate so well to 14 it’s ridiculous. Just makes sage feel like a giant missed opportunity

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

There are so many options they could open up healer DPS rotations with, but taking your idea, it's a no-brainer:

* AST - cards proc DPS spells.
* SGE - have more heal abilities generate addersting and have more spells to spend addersting on.
* SCH - bring back Miasma/Bane, maybe have a regen associated with it.
* WHM - Just give them more nukes. Quake, Tornado, Flood. WHM go kaboom. WHM don't need heal tie-ins.

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OMG, I LOVE this idea! It's simple, ties healing into DPS for at least some of the jobs, and would provide a unique job identity for each of the healers. I especially like the idea of giving White Mage more nukes that tie back to their elemental origins which SE has moved away from in recent years. I always feel so jealous when I take Y'shtola as a Trust and see her casting powerful White Magic offensive spells that I never got the chance to learn even after playing the Job for the past 8 years.

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Originally Posted by LestatXero

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I recommend that you, or anyone else here in General Discussion, watch Sarixis's YouTube videos on FFXIV Healing. He is a small, but underrated FFXIV content creator that gives a brief but good explanation as to why healers are in such a sad state right now and offers a good benchmark on how SE can rework the jobs by using old assets that are still in the game's files. Because of his videos, I was able to convince someone who was in favor of the 1 button DPS spam into understanding our argument and in favor in adding more DPS spells.

Please note, these videos were made before the 6.1 patch.

WHM: https://youtu.be/dF3XIhJm_N0
SCH: https://youtu.be/b2YZ1dx34ug
AST: https://youtu.be/XNJGY9B7VW4

Take his WHM video for example.

He suggests that SE brings back Fluid Aura.

• The spell will act as a mini-Enochian and gives the WHM a 5% dmg boost.
• Will upgrade to Water/Banish at later levels.
• Adds the trait "Conviction" where if a WHM heals an ally that's below 50% of their health, they gain three Conviction "stacks" that boosts the damage of Fluid Aura/Water/Banish significantly.

He also suggests that SE introduces a new skill called, Sacrosanctity.

• It uses the old Cleric Stance animation.
• Marks an enemy npc and deals damage to them whenever the WHM casts a healing GCD.

I don't agree with everything on his videos, but it's a good watch and it helps non-healer players understand what we healer mains want. He understands the Healer role very well.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

I've had more fun healing in PvP the last week on sage than I've had healing in 14 since shadowbringers launch day. If they don't implement some of the ideas in PvP healers into PvE they're insane.

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This is the same company that deleted Kaiten and cut Hroth ears off, saying they were covered by HAIR. I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by currentlemon

I recommend that you, or anyone else here in General Discussion, watch Sarixis's YouTube videos on FFXIV Healing. He is a small, but underrated FFXIV content creator that gives a brief but good explanation as to why healers are in such a sad state right now and offers a good benchmark on how SE can rework the jobs by using old assets that are still in the game's files. Because of his videos, I was able to convince someone who was in favor of the 1 button DPS spam into understanding our argument and in favor in adding more DPS spells.

Please note, these videos were made before the 6.1 patch.

WHM: https://youtu.be/dF3XIhJm_N0
SCH: https://youtu.be/b2YZ1dx34ug
AST: https://youtu.be/XNJGY9B7VW4

Take his WHM video for example.

He suggests that SE brings back Fluid Aura.

• The spell will act as a mini-Enochian and gives the WHM a 5% dmg boost.
• Will upgrade to Water/Banish at later levels.
• Adds the trait "Conviction" where if a WHM heals an ally that's below 50% of their health, they gain three Conviction "stacks" that boosts the damage of Fluid Aura/Water/Banish significantly.

He also suggests that SE introduces a new skill called, Sacrosanctity.

• It uses the old Cleric Stance animation.
• Marks an enemy npc and deals damage to them whenever the WHM casts a healing GCD.

I don't agree with everything on his videos, but it's a good watch and it helps non-healer players understand what we healer mains want. He understands the Healer role very well.

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His videos are great! I don't agree with everything he suggests either but I can't deny that it would be more fun than what we've currently got.

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Originally Posted by Nizzi

His videos are great! I don't agree with everything he suggests either but I can't deny that it would be more fun than what we've currently got.

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It's also just well-thought out which our current healers are not. There are so many ways to break a job's design that it's understandable why they felt like homogonization was the correct path, even if unacceptable by many of us.

To be honest, though, I think we need to be less scared of breaking stuff. Balance is important, and I'm normally a huge advocate of balance, but becoming obsessed with balance and perfection has made our jobs dull and lifeless. I would rather have something imbalanced but fun than something consistently dull. We all to often forget that this is a game, not an SAT test. The job does need to flow, and we can want to play as best we can with the jobs we have, but was it really bad for AST's cards to have RNG? Was it really bad for the faeries to be different but lopsided?

I’ve said this a lot but two scenarios need to happen:

Overhaul damage dealt so bosses/mobs/ect delivery damage alot more often and in 4 man content 200% more potent

Or have healers have light version of ranger/Caster kits

The first option will never happen as the content is way to fixated in its heavily scripted design, so the only hope for a overhaul is a DPS kit just light enough not to be boring

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Originally Posted by Jirah

I’ve said this a lot but two scenarios need to happen:

Overhaul damage dealt so bosses/mobs/ect delivery damage alot more often and in 4 man content 200% more potent

Or have healers have light version of ranger/Caster kits

The first option will never happen as the content is way to fixated in its heavily scripted design, so the only hope for a overhaul is a DPS kit just light enough not to be boring

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i find it strange that people think the first option will "never happen" when, well, it DID happen. back in arr and heavensward autos did more damage and even crit... even the first boss of gubal library randomly autoattacks dps so even with scripted mechanics they can definitely make healing more interesting. if they bring that back, well thats a different story.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

i find it strange that people think the first option will "never happen" when, well, it DID happen. back in arr and heavensward autos did more damage and even crit... even the first boss of gubal library randomly autoattacks dps so even with scripted mechanics they can definitely make healing more interesting. if they bring that back, well thats a different story.

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Probably because the developers have stated that they have no plans to increase the amount of outgoing damage that needs to be healed. Otherwise, the baby healers would be “too stressed out” and completely fall apart. Or something.

They also removed the ability for bosses to Crit auto in any content added after Stormblood. Which I disagree with but apparently it was “too difficult to manage”.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

So, some general suggestions.


SCH:

• Bane and Miasma return.
• Eos and Selene are now slightly different.
  1. Selene's Whispering Dawn will heal for less upfront but has a longer duration, while Eos will heal for more quickly but have a lower duration but both will heal for the same total potency.
  2. Selene will receive Fey Covenant to act as an inverse of Fey Illumination, reducing the damage the party takes by 10% instead of 5% but only increases healing received by 5% instead of 10%.
  3. Fey Blessing will be lowered down to level 30 and will provide a Shield effect for Selene or a Heal with Eos.
• The Fairy Gauge now unlocks are level 20 with Whispering Dawn and starts off at 100 upon entering an instance and each fairy ability will now use 25 gauge to utilize. All your GCD attacks will restore 5 gauge each, Aetherflow abilities will continue to restore 10 gauge. DoTs have a 50% proc to restore 5 more gauge per tic.
• Aetherpact will no longer tether your fairy to a party member but will summon your unused fairy to the target, causing them to heal the target only. This frees up your fairy to continue to utilize her other abilities without the clunkiness of applying and reapplying the tether if you wish to utilize her other abilities.
• Energy Drain is changed to a 1m oGCD attack with 2 charges that, upon use, will turn Art of War into Shadowflare and Ruin 2 into Ruination. Shadowflare will cause a slow on all targets hit while Ruination has the same potency as Broil and will reduce the damage the target does by 5% for 15s with. Both these effects have a 1 minute CD.
• Rouse and Eye for an Eye return as low level Seraph and Protraction. Protraction can be spread with Deployment tactics.

AST:

• New AoE skill called Nebula is added.
• Cards are now divided into Major and Minor Arcana.
• Balance, Spear and Arrow will be Major and provide D.Hit, Crit, and Determination.
• Bole, Spire and Ewer will be Minor and provide Mitigation, Healing Received and Shielding.
• Seals are gone entirely and Astrodyne is turned into a 120s CD with all 3 benefits consistently on it.
• Time Dilation returns as low level Exaltation and Synastry is reworked to be low level Celestial Intersection

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I like your suggestions.
The faeries now have no reason to be different anymore. It's kinda sad...

And the AST cards, I think the effects of each are debatable, but it's a good start to make them different again as they were in the start.

These aspects are what bothers me most. Why the same effects in two or more buttons or cards? I think we must get or one only button for the same thing or more effect diversity (which is preffered).

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

It's also just well-thought out which our current healers are not. There are so many ways to break a job's design that it's understandable why they felt like homogonization was the correct path, even if unacceptable by many of us.

To be honest, though, I think we need to be less scared of breaking stuff. Balance is important, and I'm normally a huge advocate of balance, but becoming obsessed with balance and perfection has made our jobs dull and lifeless. I would rather have something imbalanced but fun than something consistently dull. We all to often forget that this is a game, not an SAT test. The job does need to flow, and we can want to play as best we can with the jobs we have, but was it really bad for AST's cards to have RNG? Was it really bad for the faeries to be different but lopsided?

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WHM was the issue with this state of affairs. It's perfectly workable...if you don't have it starkly contrasted alongside a healer that MUST have zero utility, zero complexity, zero fun unbalanced things, and then the job balancing team wonders why it somehow sucks alongside the two jobs that don't have these weird arbitrary "has to suck" constraints on it.

I think another thing healer can benefit double targeting.. you can target boss (or mob) and a group member at same time.

Any offensive spell you use cast to boss.. any beneficial spell you use cast to selected party member.

It makes DPS rotation (they don't have any yet) much more easier. It can be included in targeting options as optional choice.

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Originally Posted by Insertusernamehere

I think another thing healer can benefit double targeting.. you can target boss (or mob) and a group member at same time.

Any offensive spell you use cast to boss.. any beneficial spell you use cast to selected party member.

It makes DPS rotation (they don't have any yet) much more easier. It can be included in targeting options as optional choice.

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Focus Target.
But I guess what you're saying, there should be an opinion, or default function, that if the spell/skill you're using isn't applicable to your target, then it will attempt to use it on your Focus Target instead. That would save macroing skills to get this effect.
I currently (for every healer except Sage who I'm learning not to do this with) have macro'd all my healer dps skills to target-of-target, so I hard target the tank (focus target boss for info) and then heals hit the tank and dps hits target-of-target aka the boss.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Focus Target.
But I guess what you're saying, there should be an opinion, or default function, that if the spell/skill you're using isn't applicable to your target, then it will attempt to use it on your Focus Target instead. That would save macroing skills to get this effect.

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Yes, similar to focus target.. but permanently targeted until you change your target.. you don't have to switch constantly between party member and boss.. this might help with DPS rotation (assuming if they want to give a DPS rotation to healer).

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Originally Posted by Punslinger

*headdesk*

Savage raiders spend 60%+ of every raid spamming one button. What do you think happens in easier content?

Do...do you think more healing is somehow needed in easier content? How do you not understand that healing being boring in Savage and Ultimate means that healing is also boring everywhere else?!

I don't raid Savage. I quit healing three years ago because it was incredibly boring. Dungeon bosses are a joke. 24-mans only need healing when it's an absolute clownfest. MSQing as a healer is a prescription-strength sleep aid (you can't heal mobs to death, y'know). Tanks now have so much self-sustain that healers are flat-out unnecessary in most content. Literally only two current fights in the game require healers: P3S and P4S.

Why do you think healers should be happy about this? Why should healers accept being unnecessary and boring to play in 99% of the game? The only reason, the only reason, I can come up with is that you lot want healing to be the ticket to a free, zero-effort carry through content.

From now on, "If you want to DPS, play a DPS," should be answered with, "If you want to mindlessly press one button to win, play Cookie Clicker."

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I feel like you're not at all getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that either they increase healer dps by giving it more offensive skills or split the dps is already has into more skills. First option requires further balancing, since if you up the dps in any content, esp endgame, you also need to up the boss if you don't want to nerf it by increasing the dps, and in the second they work goes into making it more complex for the sake of increasing complexity. Wether there is a big enough demand for it to actually put the effort in I can't tell. Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

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It's in the title of the thread, lmao.

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content. If you revamp them you need to revamp a lot more than just 4 classes. Again I say, I simply don't see the demand for it to be worth so much work and time sunk into it. Feel free to prove me, and more importantly square, wrong.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

the healers are the backbone of any challenging content.

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No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.
While we're at it, we're going into a phase where they want to make the game more single-player friendly. Healers are not built for that kind of experience, as we know from having so many people admit "you should play a DPS class for story, not a healer" as an answer for how we might fix healer gameplay issues in solo content. "Just don't play them" is not a good answer to fixing them.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

No, the Tanks are the backbones of any challenging content, and the DPS are the ribs and meat. The Healers are just the fat, and tend to get trimmed almost immediately. Case in point: the increasing amount of encounters that are being done, even current content, where healers are proven to be unnecessary.

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Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

I feel like you're not at all getting what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that either they increase healer dps by giving it more offensive skills or split the dps is already has into more skills. First option requires further balancing, since if you up the dps in any content, esp endgame, you also need to up the boss if you don't want to nerf it by increasing the dps, and in the second they work goes into making it more complex for the sake of increasing complexity. Wether there is a big enough demand for it to actually put the effort in I can't tell. Tbh, some of you are talking like you want a complete revamp and thats actually a lot of work and testing

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:rolleyes: after https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate is up to 154 pages ? Let alone other threads. over years, really? This affects four jobs - one role. A core part of the game design. I would call that a high priority.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

:rolleyes: after https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-play-Ultimate is up to 154 pages ? Let alone other threads. over years, really? This affects four jobs - one role. A core part of the game design. I would call that a high priority.

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Yeah but the current system works for the purpose, nothing about it is actually broken, some people just seem to want more challenge, even tho a lot of people i've played in savages with seems to feel plenty challenged as healers already. How, for instance, do you prove this isn't just people who have done endgame content long enough to get so good at it that they get bored of it? There are many factors to consider before you revamp a big part of the game, and I'm honestly unsure if they can all be represented just by written word. I mean, keep pushing I guess and see what happens, but I have my doubts.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

Square balances around endgame content tho, and you can't do that without healers. Replace one critical part of a machine and you got a bigger problem on your hands. I'm afraif that if Square is actually gonna do something so drastic then you need more than a thread and some thumbs up. How about solliciting practical examples with demonstrated cases of your points for instance? That might get them to at least look.

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P1S and P2S have been cleared without healers, so there's currently only 3 fights in EW that can't be done without healers lol