Pulling During Cutscene

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Sigh. This is getting ridiculous having to really explain what is actually said rather than have you twist it into what you want to argue against.
So let me explain using a scenario.
We will say, a dps is new. Only the 1 dps. Reach the final boss. Dps is in cut scene, and only the dps. Tank pulls. Healer disagrees because they believe the dps should be able to partipate in the whole fight and the tank should have waited for cutscene to finish. So healer stays behind barrier, and tank dies. What the healer did, CHOOSING not to participate, is reportable.
No where did I say watching cutscenes is reportable. Good try though.

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It's only against the ToS if the non-participation is intended to grief the party. It's not against the ToS to be AFK or not paying attention for a brief period when someone runs ahead and pulls. It's also not directly against the ToS to decide to wait for everyone to be present before engaging yourself; if someone else runs ahead before the party is ready there's no ToS obligation to save them.

Anything about non-participation in the ToS is strictly related to people who are intending to grief the party by not participating at all; it doesn't mean you can report anyone who doesn't immediately run in to save you when you do something stupid.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

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Snorky. Let me help you follow along.
Someone said about choosing not to help if someone pulls.
The reply to that was actively not participating is against the TOS
YOU said that person never said about not participating
I replied, pointing out the implication of just that
Someone said its not against the TOS to wait for someone in cs
I reiterated saying choosing not to participate is actually against the tos
You, without comprehension, suggested I said watching a cutscene is reportable
I explained to you what was actually said, while clearly stating, nowhere did I say what you were accusing me of
So currently, the topic at hand is not my defence of something, but a warning. If you, or others want to risk the sub you paid, lose that money, and all that time, by choosing to stand back when the fight is activated, for the purpose of activism, that is your choice to risk your accounts and money.
You do you

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's only against the ToS if the non-participation is intended to grief the party. It's not against the ToS to be AFK or not paying attention for a brief period when someone runs ahead and pulls. It's also not directly against the ToS to decide to wait for everyone to be present before engaging yourself; if someone else runs ahead before the party is ready there's no ToS obligation to save them.

Anything about non-participation in the ToS is strictly related to people who are intending to grief the party by not participating at all; it doesn't mean you can report anyone who doesn't immediately run in to save you when you do something stupid.

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Thank you Goji1639.

@Kolaina you do you and I will still be polite and do my best not to ruin others fun.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't really understand this point of view. The tank tries to force the entire group into a situation that none of them wants by pulling during a cutscene, and everyone else is just obligated to be supportive of that unilateral decision why? Too many people in this game feel like they should be able to force the groups hand and have everyone just be cool about it.

If you pull during a cutscene you'd better be able to survive alone until the cutscene is over; and I guess in many situations tanks can. I do believe, at least, that if you can carry the weight of your decisions without any help then you're less obligated to consult or consider the group.

I still think it's a dick move to pull on a new player, but it's even worse if you need to beg for help and try to make the entire group complicit in your selfish nonsense.

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I mean, why do you assume it's someone forcing others? Why do you assume no one wants them to pull because someone might be in cutscene? Most groups I run into just want to get in and out fast, so if a tank or healer runs into the boss room, they follow. I think in 4-man content it's polite to wait on cutscenes, yes, but I'm not going to throw a big hissy fit like a lot of y'all if someone pulls before the cutscener is out - and I'm definitely not going to abandon my job I queued for just because some people on a forum think it's the 'moral high ground' to actively sabotage a boss pull.

Then again, I'm talking to a guy who follows around anyone who's ever so much as told him his egotistical manchild way of playing the game and treating other players is wrong, to basically every thread they post in. Dunno what I expect out of you, Goji. You're probably the best example of egotistical and selfish toxicity I've ever seen on these forums, so you really don't have much ground to be moral grandstanding on.

Either way, comes down to this: refusing to do your job in content you queued for is reportable. Someone pulling the boss - accidentally, intentionally, whatever - before everyone in a dungeon or raid is out of cutscene isn't. That's just the facts, regardless of what people think about doing so.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

I mean, why do you assume it's someone forcing others? Why do you assume no one wants them to pull because someone might be in cutscene? Most groups I run into just want to get in and out fast, so if a tank or healer runs into the boss room, they follow. I think in 4-man content it's polite to wait on cutscenes, yes, but I'm not going to throw a big hissy fit like a lot of y'all if someone pulls before the cutscener is out - and I'm definitely not going to abandon my job I queued for just because some people on a forum think it's the 'moral high ground' to actively sabotage a boss pull.

Then again, I'm talking to a guy who follows around anyone who's ever so much as told him his egotistical manchild way of playing the game and treating other players is wrong, to basically every thread they post in. Dunno what I expect out of you, Goji. You're probably the best example of egotistical and selfish toxicity I've ever seen on these forums, so you really don't have much ground to be moral grandstanding on.

Either way, comes down to this: refusing to do your job in content you queued for is reportable. Someone pulling the boss - accidentally, intentionally, whatever - before everyone in a dungeon or raid is out of cutscene isn't. That's just the facts, regardless of what people think about doing so.

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I don't assume anything, and that's the point. The only person that's making an assumption is the tank who pulled the boss during a cutscene and expected everyone else to just fall in line with his decision. All anyone is saying is that pulling during a cutscene is rude and you shouldn't do it. Apparently people feeling that way is prompting you to throw a "hissy fit."

Also, not sure why you're making up a bunch of crap about me. I've never followed around anyone and harassed them about old discussions. Plenty of people here seem to like to do that to me, but that's definitely not my style.

Finally, it's not reportable because they're not refusing to do their job. They're just waiting for the entire party to be ready before engaging, which isn't against the rules.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't assume anything, and that's the point. The only person that's making an assumption is the tank who pulled the boss during a cutscene and expected everyone else to just fall in line with his decision. All anyone is saying is that pulling during a cutscene is rude and you shouldn't do it. Apparently people feeling that way is prompting you to throw a "hissy fit."

Also, not sure why you're making up a bunch of crap about me. I've never followed around anyone and harassed them about old discussions. Plenty of people here seem to like to do that to me, but that's definitely not my style.

Finally, it's not reportable because they're not refusing to do their job. They're just waiting for the entire party to be ready before engaging, which isn't against the rules.

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You do like to assume anyone who disagrees with your bad takes is throwing a hissy fit, don't you? Dunno bud, I don't see me screaming and throwing my fists or slinging insults towards people who think it's fine if pulls occur before everyone's out of a cutscene. Is it rude? Sure, a little. But not something I feel is as big a deal as people in this thread make it out to be, and certainly not worth sabotaging a boss pull or cursing out the puller in typical GCBTW fashion.

You did very much assume that a tank pulling a boss before one person is out of cutscenes was forcing the party to do something, though. Now that someone pointed it out, you backpedal and claim you don't assume anything, except of the tank pulling. As you tend to do; your go-to during disagreements is gaslighting the other side to try and make yourself look better on a singular post basis. You are not really subtle in the way you act towards people or how often you show up in threads where the same few posters post in. That as well as all your prior behavior and words are why people bring up your old takes. Because they show a pattern in the way you think and approach other people.

And it definitely is reportable. But by all means, try it yourself. Enjoy the GM calls when you get reported for refusing to do the job you signed up for content with.

I added my own take on the thread topic, though, and I'm definitely not interested in having one of your usual circular "discussions", so have fun with the echo chamber my dude.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

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Eh, an entire paragraph of your previous post was insulting me, so yea, you're kind of throwing a fit. I haven't insulted you once, however.

Also, I didn't assume anything. A tank pulling is attempting to force the parties hand. They started the lockdown timer and engaged the boss without consulting anyone, assuming everyone else would just fall in line and back them up. These are facts.

And finally, it's not reportable. I mean, I guess you can technically report anything, but it's not against the ToS. Non-participation with the intention of griefing the party is against the ToS. Non-participation because you're AFK, distracted or waiting for the entire party to be ready is fine.

Go ahead and report people for everything that can be interpreted as not participating, though, regardless of intention. You'll probably just get your own account actioned for abusing the report function.

Tank runs in. Healer doesn’t follow. Tank and potentially dps who followed die. Healer states was waiting for cs. Knowing full well the result, and acknowledging they intentionally stayed out of fight. Go ahead, take that risk goji. Its your account, not mine. But I will go in and help my team. THAT is what I signed up for

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Tank runs in. Healer doesn’t follow. Tank and potentially dps who followed die. Healer states was waiting for cs. Knowing full well the result, and acknowledging they intentionally stayed out of fight. Go ahead, take that risk goji. Its your account, not mine. But I will go in and help my team. THAT is what I signed up for

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It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

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So you will lie. Shows all I need to know about your character

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

It's not a risk. In terms of how "against the ToS" that is, it's basically like saying "sorry, got a phone call" after the tank and DPS die. If the intent of your brief non-participation isn't to grief your team then you're fine.

If helping the tank make the new player feel uncomfortable is what you signed up for, then do your thing. Don't perpetuate the self-serving lie that deciding to wait for the new player is against the ToS, though, because it's not.

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Goji, choosing to not participate is griefing the people who did. It's not the same as getting a phone call. You are CHOOSING to not participate to make yourself feel better, because you want to assure yourself that you're somehow better than these "self-serving" people who did.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

So you will lie. Shows all I need to know about your character

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Lie about what?

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Goji, choosing to not participate is griefing the people who did. It's not the same as getting a phone call. You are CHOOSING to not participate to make yourself feel better.

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Umm, me answering my phone is me choosing not to participate. It's fine, though, because the intention of my choice to not participate wasn't to grief my team.

It's the same with the cut scene; if your intention is only to wait until everyone is ready. Like, for instance, if you're in an EX raid and half a ready check doesn't pass, but a DPS runs in and pulls the boss anyways. No one's obligated to run in with him.

Hate to break it to you guys, but griefing is likely very common in this game. As long as there is no actual admission in chat to doing such, or just blatantly doing so, it might as well be non-actionable. It's not against the ToS to go afk, and that's a good thing, because what if you actually have an emergency, and the next thing you find out you have a permanent strike on your account and a 10 day suspension?

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Originally Posted by Trobon

Now who’s gaslighting? Goji never said they would lie about a phone call. They said it’s no different than if you got a phone call. By the way disparaging another poster because they disagree with you is rude. Don’t forget that.

There is nothing in the TOS about failure to participate. If there is then please point it out. Further waiting for the whole team to be ready before participating is not griefing. Abuse of the report function however is. So feel free to risk your accounts reporting those people.

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Should I show u my own ban message for failing to participate because of waiting for someone? Yes they did claim to make an excuse for not participating. Thought you were done with this thread trobon? Didn’t last long

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

Should I show u my own ban message for failing to participate because of waiting for someone? Yes they did claim to make an excuse for not participating. Thought you were done with this thread trobon? Didn’t last long

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Yeah go ahead. Show me that ban message. I’d really love to see it. Especially where it says because you waited for someone. Also I thought you were against being rude on this thread, guess we both said things we didn’t end up following.

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Originally Posted by Trobon

Yeah go ahead. Show me that ban message. I’d really love to see it. Especially where it says because you waited for someone. Also I thought you were against being rude on this thread, guess we both said things we didn’t end up following.

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Its not rude because it is something that you disagree with. Tell me how to show you. How to put screen shot from ps5 to here?

I didn't read any of the actual conversation that was going on in this thread, but if someone were to state in chat they weren't participating to "wait" for someone, it may have been viewed by the GM as:

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3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

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That goes over what I stated in my last post about using the chat function.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I didn't read any of the actual conversation that was going on in this thread, but if someone were to state in chat they weren't participating to "wait" for someone, it may have been viewed by the GM as:



That goes over what I stated in my last post about using the chat function.

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I mean I guess if waiting for someone to join the fight is reportable under that then pulling while someone is in a cutscene would be too since that is disrupting their experience. If people want to go down that rabbit hole then I guess we’re going to be in a report everyone system where if anyone ever admits to pulling early or not joining in chat they will get reported.

Seems like the only solution is unskippable cutscenes in all content. Then no one has to be reported.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I didn't read any of the actual conversation that was going on in this thread, but if someone were to state in chat they weren't participating to "wait" for someone, it may have been viewed by the GM as:



That goes over what I stated in my last post about using the chat function.

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Thing is that there's implied intent to be disruptive behind a rule like this that isn't stated in the rule. Someone going AFK to answer a phone; check on their child; etc., is technically disrupting every other person in the group. There's no intent to be disruptive there, though, like there's no intent to be disruptive when you're simply waiting for someone.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I didn't read any of the actual conversation that was going on in this thread, but if someone were to state in chat they weren't participating to "wait" for someone, it may have been viewed by the GM as:



That goes over what I stated in my last post about using the chat function.

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3.2 is precisely what my ban notice says

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Lie about what?


Umm, me answering my phone is me choosing not to participate. It's fine, though, because the intention of my choice to not participate wasn't to grief my team.

It's the same with the cut scene; if your intention is only to wait until everyone is ready. Like, for instance, if you're in an EX raid and half a ready check doesn't pass, but a DPS runs in and pulls the boss anyways. No one's obligated to run in with him.

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Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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What are you trying to prove here, Goji? Are we going to talk in circles all day? Sure, there are loopholes to be in the clear for sabotaging. And if you go to those lengths to get around getting in trouble for purposefully not participating, it really shows what kind of person you are. Not participating when someone pulls, not playing the job you queued up for, is griefing. It is reportable. It has gotten people banned. But sure, you're the good guy. Keep moral grandstanding. I really see what that person was calling you out for.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Thing is that there's implied intent to be disruptive behind a rule like this that isn't stated in the rule. Someone going AFK to answer a phone; check on their child; etc., is technically disrupting every other person in the group. There's no intent to be disruptive there, though, like there's no intent to be disruptive when you're simply waiting for someone.

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Yep, which is why admitting to intentionally 'disrupting' the gameplay experience for other players probably will and has gotten players banned, while I doubt players are getting banned for saying "sorry have to afk". However, "waiting"' for a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

Goji, being afk 'cause you're answering the phone does not, in any way, equate to being at your computer, or holding your controller, and not pressing your buttons. Outside influences are excusable. Real life will always come before a game. But if you are not pressing your buttons because you want it to be "fair" for cutscene viewers, and you put yourself on this righteous pedestal, that is reportable. Ty.

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So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep, which is why admitting to intentionally 'disrupting' the gameplay experience for other players probably will and has gotten players banned, while I doubt players are getting banned for saying "sorry have to afk". However, "waiting"' for a player can be viewed as intent to be disruptive, because a player who is willfully not participating in content - and stating such - is disrupting the gameplay experience for the player(s) who pulled.

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Saying, "sorry have to afk" is still willfully not participating in the content and stating such, though. The key is stating your actual intention to disrupt the group in chat. Announcing you let someone die because you don't like them would be actionable. Saying you were just waiting for a new player to catch up wouldn't be.

Man, the last 3-4 pages is like watching kids fighting over a toy.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

So, if I get up and walk away from my keyboard to do something while waiting it won't be reportable then?

You're adding caveats to the rules that don't exist. Maybe I was at my keyboard but got momentarily distracted chatting with my FC; not bannable.

Whether or not it's breaking the ToS depends 100% on intent; not your proximity to a controller or keyboard, or whether your reasons for not participating exist inside or outside of the game.

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If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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Well then people are left in a no win situation other than not admit anything in chat. Because pulling early before everyone is ready is disrupting other people’s play as well. So if I’m in a group and one person is in a cutscene and another pulls my only option is to just not say anything. If I join the fight I can be reported for disrupting the cutscene viewers play (since they don’t know who pulled) and if I don’t join I can be reported for disrupting the pullers play. It seems like my best option is to just not talk at all.

I guess this is what FF XIV’s stellar community has come to.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The problem is that there is no intent to be disruptive in simply waiting for someone. To be honest, pulling before everyone is ready is probably easier to interpret as being disruptive.

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Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

I'm a new player and I nearly quit the game yesterday due to players behaving this way. I came to this game because I heard the community was better, I have learned that they can be just as selfish and unhelpful as others. They made me feel like I was a burden to their group, they just wanted to pull fast and get everything done as quickly as possible. They didn't care one bit if there was a new player in the group, as a Black Mage I barely even got any casts off because of how they were playing. I couldn't even tell them to slow down because they were pulling so fast and starting cut scenes before I got a chance to say anything, even doing skips that I was unaware of. I was not impressed by this experience, I'm still debating if I should subscribe to this game, if players are going to be so impatient and indifferent then it is not worth it.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Players have the option to automatically skip cutscenes, many times it's completely on accident to pull early; it's not necessarily intentional, it's general routine. It's very easy to miss someone is still in a cutscene, and for that matter, I'm pretty sure there is a way to actually watch them after the fact. More often than not players aren't watching cutscenes, and if a player is watching a cutscene, they can still participate after it (in most cases). Choosing not to participate, is, however, intentional, and stating such is seemingly actionable.

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However if you pull early and admit to it then you have the intent to report them under 3.2. Since this whole thread started with OP saying they defend people who purposely pull early because their time is more important than other players’ being able to watch the cutscenes 3.2 seems to apply here. Again, the key seems to be none of us should ever talk to another player because anything we say can and will be used against us.

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Originally Posted by Trobon

I guess this is what FF XIV’s stellar community has come to.

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Good then that only a small minority is on these forums and reddit.

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Originally Posted by Umbrix_Darkfire

I'm a new player and I nearly quit the game yesterday due to players behaving this way. I came to this game because I heard the community was better, I have learned that they can be just as selfish and unhelpful as others.

They made me feel like I was a burden to their group, they just wanted to pull everything fast and just get everything done as quickly as possible. They didn't care one bit if there was a new player in the group, as a Black Mage I barely even got any casts off because of how they were playing.

I couldn't even tell them to slow down because they were pulling so fast and starting cut scenes before I got a chance to say anything, even doing skips that I was unaware of. I was not impressed by this experience, I'm still debating if I should subscribe to this game, if players are going to be so impatient and indifferent then it is not worth it.

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Sorry you experienced that.
It goes without saying but don't let few bad apples ruin the game for you. Hopefully you did decide to stick around.

Would be a shame for someone to quit over something like this.

If you don't like the game, then fine.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If a player were to "wait" specifically due to a pull in a cutscene, and willfully not participate, seeing as others have apparently gotten banned for specifically 3.2, it is against the ToS. The problem is proving the intent to be 'disruptive'.

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Give me one topic with someone posting picture proof of a convo with a GM where someone has gotten banned explicitly for waiting for someone in a cutscene citing 3.2. Considering GMs have already ruled kicking for playstyle differences is an actual reason, I find it extremely sketch they wouldn't have immediately burst out laughing while they throw out a report someone made of someone waiting for another in a cutscene, let alone actually suspend someone for it.

Besides, 3.2 is an incredibly bad clause to whip out in defense of early pulling, since by its own definition, the cutscene watcher can report the early puller as disrupting their gameplay as the early puller is ruining their complete dungeon experience.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Good then that only a small minority is on these forums and reddit.

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Fair play. I often get discouraged by the forums and Reddit sometimes and then feel a lot better when I run something in game.

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Originally Posted by Trobon

Fair play. I often get discouraged by the forums and Reddit sometimes and then feel a lot better when I run something in game.

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Yeah I feel you. I kinda get a kick from reading the drama (mostly on reddit) but I wouldn't say what happens and being said here is reflected as much how the in-game community is like but I hear you, it's hard to tell a difference sometimes lol

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

Good then that only a small minority is on these forums and reddit.



Sorry you experienced that.
It goes without saying but don't let few bad apples ruin the game for you. Hopefully you did decide to stick around.

Would be a shame for someone to quit over something like this.

If you don't like the game, then fine.

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I really like this game, my only two complaints are impatient players and Black Mage being unable to do much damage when groups want to pull fast. The tanks will get aggro on stuff and run ahead, all I can really do is press Scathe once in a while or wait for an instant proc. I just thought to myself, why am I here? I can't do anything and no one really cares.

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Originally Posted by Umbrix_Darkfire

I really like this game, my only two complaints are impatient players and Black Mage being unable to do much damage when groups want to pull fast. The tanks will get aggro on stuff and run ahead, all I can really do is press Scathe once in a while or wait for an instant proc. I just thought to myself, why am I here? I can't do anything and no one really cares.

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BLM is one of my main and it will get easier later on but I understand completely what you mean.
If you're in a FC, maybe you can run dungeons with them and/or with friends?

Unfortunately it would seem you're playing in NA (based on your server here on forum) otherwise I'd offer myself up.

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Originally Posted by Umbrix_Darkfire

I really like this game, my only two complaints are impatient players and Black Mage being unable to do much damage when groups want to pull fast. The tanks will get aggro on stuff and run ahead, all I can really do is press Scathe once in a while or wait for an instant proc. I just thought to myself, why am I here? I can't do anything and no one really cares.

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For trash mobs the reason the tank is running ahead is so you can do something when they hit the wall. Other than ranged physical DPS most people won’t be able to hit the mobs either during the run but when the tank stops you can the. Use your aoe skills to burn down 10 enemies at once instead of 2-3. It’s usually nice if the tank gives a heads up or asks at the start, but tanks are doing it so you have better DPS generally. Half the time the reason the tank is doing it is because they were yelled at not to pull one pack at a time by either DPS or healers beforehand.

It’s partially a rush thing as you say but it’s also partially just that one pack at a time doesn’t require or even really allow people to use their full skill set on their character.

If you’re having trouble keeping up though make sure to let people know you’re new and ask if they can go a little slower. Often we won’t know someone is having an issue unless they say something and we’ll just expect to be flamed if we don’t go fast for trash pulls.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...6&id=5382&la=1

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

Give me one topic with someone posting picture proof of a convo with a GM where someone has gotten banned explicitly for waiting for someone in a cutscene citing 3.2. Considering GMs have already ruled kicking for playstyle differences is an actual reason, I find it extremely sketch they wouldn't have immediately burst out laughing while they throw out a report someone made of someone waiting for another in a cutscene, let alone actually suspend someone for it.

Besides, 3.2 is an incredibly bad clause to whip out in defense of early pulling, since by its own definition, the cutscene watcher can report the early puller as disrupting their gameplay as the early puller is ruining their complete dungeon experience.

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Was I defending early pulling, or just discussing the topic in general? I referenced 3.2, because I have seen players state several times that they have been banned in the past, citing 3.2, for very similar reasons. I thought it was completely relevant. I'm sure it does go both ways, but just because one player may think they are being 'courteous' by "waiting" it doesn't exempt them from the ToS.

Is it really this hard to have a tiny bit of empathy for new players and exercise a tiny modicum of patience? Its always been considered rude to pull before the party is ready, since long before this game even existed. Honestly, if you don't have 30 seconds to wait for a new player to exit a CS then you dont have time for a wipe, or a D/C or even a slower than average run, in short you dont have time to do the content. Of course its worth saying tge time argument is just a poor attempt to justify selfish behaviour.