Ishgardian Restoration world visit.

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Originally Posted by SerenityChiba

Not necessarily, because you would just have more Wanderers coming in and hogging up spots for Home Worlders. Even WITH instances.

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1200 people is certainly a lot better than 400. I think an instance holds that many. If 3 isn't enough then add more but i suspect after the first week they'll be a lot less people but I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mirhd

Reading shout chat in my server's firmament before the FATE starts, and it's (again) composed of people from off-world bragging about getting in, how they didn't contribute and are here solely for the FATE, etc. Things are dire NOW, Yoshi P. I do appreciate the work that goes into maintaining a game like this, but it really is ridiculous that this happened to begin with, and that - somehow - it currently isn't seen as a problem. It's been proven time and time again, that if something can be exploited, many less conscientious people will take advantage of it. Those of us that don't engage in this server hopping garbage shouldn't be forced to wait for those that do to profit off our work before we can even gain access to our own server's firmament.

Not wanting to miss out again, I've been sitting in the firmament for well over an hour and a half, crafting food items when I ran out of restoration mats. I would have gone out to farm more if area congestion due to the huge influx of wanderers wasn't an issue. And to those that try to excuse this behaviour... I'd rather stay in here and deny a server hopper a spot for something they never contributed to. Absolutely absurd, this whole situation.

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This. Very few are actually here to help the server progress, especially when the server they wander into is ready for the next step. This is nothing more than a grind by people to get the shinies first, and deny the world dwellers the opportunity to do so. The situation is dire, NOW.

It is time for Ishgard to build the wall, and make the wanderer pay for it.
Look, its not liek im balmung-phobic or something, but when they sent their people they didnt sent their best. They bringing horny catboi, or catgirl with daddy issue.
We will commission the best vore artist that Hydaelyn ever created. And it will be a beautiful wall, BELIEVE ME!!!

Even just instances with a feature in place so people can't benefit from the same fate between them
Iunno, feels like the sheer population wasn't expected or planned around - unfortunately a common issue.

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Originally Posted by CountReavyr

Even just instances with a feature in place so people can't benefit from the same fate between them
Iunno, feels like the sheer population wasn't expected or planned around - unfortunately a common issue.

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Oh I agree any fate spawns need to be in all instances at the same time so there can be no jumping from one to another as they were with S rank hunts for example. That would certainly defeat the purpose of providing additions spots for people to craft and take part in the fate itself.

Another issue to be had, is lag and the sheer number of people in the area: I was able to get the raw materials, but then was never able to actually do the work to get a completion. So, the entire FATE came and went with Raw Material sitting in my Key Items.

There were a fair number of Wanderers mixed in with the world dwellers, so yes - instances for this would really help, along with world locking the Firmament. What is the point of being there if you "cannot perform action during this phase"?

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

• The number of crafters and gatherers varies considerably between Worlds. The Worlds with the most crafters and gatherers have over four times as many as those with the least.
• Worlds with low numbers of crafters and gatherers would struggle to carry out concerted works without visitors from other Worlds, creating a risk that those players would not be able to experience this content as intended.

The difference in the number of active crafters and gatherers is the main reason for the varying degrees of progress between the various Worlds shown on the Lodestone’s Builders’ Progress Report.

To help ease this disparity, we decided to allow players to visit other Worlds within their data center and lend their assistance to the Ishgardian Restoration efforts of that World.

This is the first time we have implemented this type of cross-world content, and we apologize for the issues described above. However, for the first few days following the release of this content, we would like to observe the trends in each World before coming to any decisions.

We understand that being unable to participate in the Ishgardian Restoration on your own World can be very stressful. But please rest assured that we are preparing emergency measures that we can put into action should the situation deteriorate, at which time an announcement will be made. In the meantime, we ask for your patience and understanding as we work to improve your experience with this content.[/INDENT]

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Thank you for acknowledging and addressing the issue. I can think of several ways to fix Firmament (Savage):
- Implement a no-wanderers restriction, but alter the resource requirements based on how many gatherers and crafters are on each world. A small world with few crafters would have a lower contribution threshold to trigger the next event than a big world like Balmung or Gilgamesh, thereby ensuring they can progress at a reasonable rate without outside help.
- Nerf the rewards from the FATE, and buff the rewards from the crafting turn-ins to compensate, thereby reducing demand for the FATE and making it easier for players to progress if they are not able to play at that time due to work, etc. This would probably be the simplest and easiest to implement.
- Add instances to Firmament (Savage) to split the load. I don't know how hard it would be to make sure instances play nice with server progression, but I imagine it would be fairly involved.
- Add a weekly lockout so players can't do more the FATE more than a certain number of times per week, perhaps 3 to 5, depending on demand. I don't know how feasible that would be given the way the Ishgard Restoration project works.

>Worlds with low numbers of crafters and gatherers would struggle to carry out concerted works without visitors from other Worlds, creating a risk that those players would not be able to experience this content as intended.

Funny statement to make considering a non-zero number of people have been locked out of the content experience.

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Originally Posted by hydralus

Funny statement to make considering a non-zero number of people have been locked out of the content experience.

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So those wanderers making content off server should be kicked when the fate spawns is that what you're suggesting? Obviously lots aren't contributing (and thats not solely a wanderer issue) but for those who are. Seems the problem isn't the wanderers but the one instance that everyone is trying to be funneled into.

I find it hard to say anything about this, after the man himself came in here with a response like that.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

So those wanderers making content off server should be kicked when the fate spawns is that what you're suggesting? Obviously lots aren't contributing (and thats not solely a wanderer issue) but for those who are. Seems the problem isn't the wanderers but the one instance that everyone is trying to be funneled into.

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I think the issue is being exacerbated by the discord servers popping up regarding the rebuild. People are organizing timetables of the upcoming fates on all servers across data centers (I'm looking at one right now). People aren't happening to chance upon a fate's time to fire off, they are planning in advance and camping to make sure they get in. So when you have, for instance, A at 7:00, B at 8:00, and C at 9:00, B is getting flooded with the horde from the discord (which filters out to CWLS and LS) to the next one to make sure they get in. So players on their own home worlds are getting locked out for long periods of time.

But you make a really good point though. It would be just as rude to force kick a Wanderer out right as it starts after they spent their time waiting.

Just my personal opinion: I think Wanderers should NOT be allowed inside instances of The Firmament with a FATE coming up, and five minutes before it is scheduled to begin, anyone can get in if there is room. Give the Home World players ample time to get in first. If you are a Wanderer in The Firmament and the progress bar completes, then you are given notice you have 10 minutes to leave the instance or you will be removed. Also, add an AFK timer to ALL players on ALL worlds of an AFK timer in The Firmament - just like in Eureka. There have been tons and tons of people hanging out in Firmament just because it is new and there is a crowd. People are standing around emoting afk for hours, etc - and they are preventing the people who are trying to participate from entering.

Personally I think they should allow Wanderer's to join in the resteration Fate, but they should not be rewarded (or at the very least awarded very little) as to disincentive world hopping to farm the fate and take away opportunities from world locals. If Wanderer's want to help, it should be mostly out of generosity to help that world and not out of greed for scripts and exp.

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Originally Posted by JBee

There have been tons and tons of people hanging out in Firmament just because it is new and there is a crowd. People are standing around emoting afk for hours, etc - and they are preventing the people who are trying to participate from entering.

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Yes it's a problem and yes discord servers do lots of things from organizing hunts, to BA to the Firmament. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The problem isn't the organization or the people hanging out but the fact that SE didn't have the foresight to realize that one instance was going to be a major problem. Lets hope they can remedy this quickly and add more instances. i'm personally against locking people out but I can understand why people are upset.

The problem I have is that I found out about the lock outs the hard way. I had gathered a bunch of stuff, turned in a ton items towards the progress and leave to get more mats, only to come back and find out that I can't go back in and had to wait almost a hour to turn in the items I had been making.

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Originally Posted by Gula

This entire thread is like seeing an Ul'dah child throwing a tantrum because they got 270 presents for their nameday instead of 300 like last year. And it has not even been 3 days.

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Except, according to everyone who has tried to participate in this, for them, it was like Santa wrote them a loving letter about receiving all sorts of presents just for them and the people who live in their house. Somehow word got out about this and everyone and their dog flooded their house. Leaving you and everyone else who lives in that house locked out.

That alone is pissing people off. And wouldn't you be pissed off if you couldn't even enjoy something given to you?

I only have one character that could attempt this but going by what I witness the other night in Gridania, it would be a waste of time. Eureka may have had people who simply afk and waited but at least the fate itself would scale to the number of people taking part. This made it possible for everyone to have a chance regardless of if you helped or not. Based on the responses in this thread this is NOT happening. Everyone can't participate even if they helped.

Heck, I was interested in this too but I honestly thought this would be a combination of Doma and side stories for crafters and gatherers but instead, we got this. And honestly, I'm not even going to try. Mind as well wait until this is done.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yes it's a problem and yes discord servers do lots of things from organizing hunts, to BA to the Firmament. That's not necessarily a bad thing. The problem isn't the organization or the people hanging out but the fact that SE didn't have the foresight to realize that one instance was going to be a major problem. Lets hope they can remedy this quickly and add more instances. i'm personally against locking people out but I can understand why people are upset.

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I would imagine that the "emergency measures" that Yoshi-P referenced is, likely, instanced areas for the Firmament. That is pure speculation, however - but I feel it would alleviate a lot of the issues that people are facing right now. Then, you can adjust the FATE based off how many crafters are present. This algorithm is already in the game, as known by open-world FATEs who adjust mob spawns based on the number of players present.

It should have come out with at least 1 extra instance in the first place, especially with world visit open. SE should have more than enough data and info at this point that they knew Discords and CWL's would be made specifically for calling out fate timers for people to just go and get in on them, regardless of if they actually helped spawn it or not.

Yeah I'm glad Yoshi addressed it, but it's still a MASSIVE oversight on everyone involved, they specifically made a way for people to instantly communicate cross world, but somehow, SOMEHOW did not foresee that being used in the way it is even with a long history of discord being used to organize things in the game.

This problem will, most likely sort its self out eventually, with people getting the max rewards and leaving the content leaving just people seeking the rewards and grinding levels. But it shouldn't have even had to be like this in the first place if SE applied even a tiny bit of common sense.

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Originally Posted by Travi

I would imagine that the "emergency measures" that Yoshi-P referenced is, likely, instanced areas for the Firmament. That is pure speculation, however - but I feel it would alleviate a lot of the issues that people are facing right now. Then, you can adjust the FATE based off how many crafters are present. This algorithm is already in the game, as known by open-world FATEs who adjust mob spawns based on the number of players present.

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Actually, FATEs don't actively scale based on the number of players currently present. They scale based on the numbers of players that completed it previously. I'm also not sure if adding more instances could work, since they might not be able to sync the progress of all three instances.

Just lock entry of transfers to the Firmament once the bar is filled and the cooldown to the FATE kicks in. If someone wants to idle like 4 hours or whatever, I guess good for them, but it'll give the people of the server a better chance to participate, themselves.

Kinda silly it's 1:16am and I'm locked out of my own world's atm.

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

It should have come out with at least 1 extra instance in the first place, especially with world visit open. SE should have more than enough data and info at this point that they knew Discords and CWL's would be made specifically for calling out fate timers for people to just go and get in on them, regardless of if they actually helped spawn it or not.

Yeah I'm glad Yoshi addressed it, but it's still a MASSIVE oversight on everyone involved, they specifically made a way for people to instantly communicate cross world, but somehow, SOMEHOW did not foresee that being used in the way it is even with a long history of discord being used to organize things in the game.

This problem will, most likely sort its self out eventually, with people getting the max rewards and leaving the content leaving just people seeking the rewards and grinding levels. But it shouldn't have even had to be like this in the first place if SE applied even a tiny bit of common sense.

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Its really easy for someone not a dev working on a critically acclaimed game to say its common sense when it goes wrong, but I genuinely don't think they expected it to be on this scale.

Crap I can only play on limited time, so per SE I NEED to world jump and pray to be able to participate in these limited once in my game life events.. since on my server unless you plant yourself firmly in the zone an 2 hours+ prior to your own worlds event you will get locked out and pray that you do not D/C. This is absolute CRAP!!!!!!

Listening to people from others worlds laugh at everyone on my server that is locked out.. SE fix this broken system.... and let people who earned it get into zone... or do not make an event that is just absolutely broken.

I am going to craft my stuff complete all the new items and glams and WRITE THIS FAILED EVENT OFF!!!

Nothing like checking the Firmament in the morning, seeing we still haven't finished the stockpile stage, then looking around the zone and seeing it half-filled with Wanderer's (I counted about 18), only one of whom is actually contributing anything at all. Rest all standing around staring at the notice board waiting for that sweet sweet FATE money.

Sure am looking forward to these same people claiming they're the sole reason Twintania finished stockpiling, just like last time. Even though they're literally doing nothing. Great content.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Actually, FATEs don't actively scale based on the number of players currently present. They scale based on the numbers of players that completed it previously.

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Sync the FATE to the time it took for the stockpile stage to be completed; Slower stockpiles result in an easier FATE, given slower stockpiling likely means low participation numbers to begin with. Essentially treat the stockpile stage as a FATE to scale the second Concerted Works FATE off of.

Done. Now we don't need World Visit to "ensure Concerted Works are completed". We can just lock out Wanderer's and stop all this d*ck waving, bitterness, and lock-out drama.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This point came up during the development of the Ishgardian Restoration, and we were aware of the risks involved

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Honestly incredible to see they had the foresight of this scenario occurring and continued without being addressed. Wonder where the bar for deterioration lies if locking players out of content entirely, hours in advance, isn't low enough to warrant emergency measures on their own.

This content has been really awesome to see.. hearing that these risks were taken, knowing full well it would mean denying people the ability to participate based on their level of time commitment however, is really frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This point came up during the development of the Ishgardian Restoration, and we were aware of the risks involved in players visiting other Worlds to help. However, we decided not to place those kinds of restrictions on the World Visit System for the following reasons:

• The number of crafters and gatherers varies considerably between Worlds. The Worlds with the most crafters and gatherers have over four times as many as those with the least.
• Worlds with low numbers of crafters and gatherers would struggle to carry out concerted works without visitors from other Worlds, creating a risk that those players would not be able to experience this content as intended.

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I mean Yoshi, if you were worried about lower pop servers, why not let us gatherers contribute? As then crafters aren't shouldering the entire burden to move the progress bar. That way wanderers wouldn't be needed.

Just had a large group at fairie hanging out at the aetheryte, some of them laughing and mocking people for not being able to get into their own firmament. Great job Yoshi P, lol. It's great not being able to get rewards and if you do want them, y'gotta afk an hour or so out just to stay in and take part because of cancerous tumors of the community.

I think it is a big issue if you have to be in the firmament 2+ hours before the fate to be able to not get locked out

This is an issue on JP servers as well, or Elemental at least.

Typhoon got their second bar filled late last night - it was around 2am for me, and I gave up waiting when I found out the FATE wouldn't be up until 4am - so went to check the marketboard and witnessed a stampede of wanderers coming through the plaza. "Off to the Firmament in Atomos" they said, and I hesitantly joined them just to see what it was like... but I (and a fair crowd around the Ishgard aetheryte) found the area was congested when I got there.

Back in Typhon today - the FATE must have failed or something, because there was another FATE for the same stage-2 works coming up around midday (10am in Japan, IIRC). Same issue. So many people crowded in that half the plaza looked deserted because I'd hit the display limit. Lots of wanderers AFK or arriving. People from my FC reported that it was congested half an hour before the event began.

The event itself, with a thirty-minute time limit, was completed in three minutes. This seems clearly far beyond their intended participation level.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This is an issue on JP servers as well, or Elemental at least.

Typhoon got their second bar filled late last night - it was around 2am for me, and I gave up waiting when I found out the FATE wouldn't be up until 4am - so went to check the marketboard and witnessed a stampede of wanderers coming through the plaza. "Off to the Firmament in Atomos" they said, and I hesitantly joined them just to see what it was like... but I (and a fair crowd around the Ishgard aetheryte) found the area was congested when I got there.

Back in Typhon today - the FATE must have failed or something, because there was another FATE for the same stage-2 works coming up around midday (10am in Japan, IIRC). Same issue. So many people crowded in that half the plaza looked deserted because I'd hit the display limit. Lots of wanderers AFK or arriving. People from my FC reported that it was congested half an hour before the event began.

The event itself, with a thirty-minute time limit, was completed in three minutes. This seems clearly far beyond their intended participation level.

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Iirc, when the event is triggered a fate happens 2 hours after that, and another happens 8 hours after that fate.

I'm sorry but that's a stupid excuse from Yoshi P claiming that they did it because of giving "varying degrees of crafters and gatherers" on other servers a chance to do the event, but then blocking out other players on their own servers because of "varying degrees of crafters and gatherers" its still a double negative. fixing nothing. so why not leave each server to their own devices...making it only a single negative. if they do not have enough crafters / gatherers then maybe they should as a community from their own server work on that? this is the 2nd time i haven't been able to enter my own instance or better yet remove the god damn FATE reward, but what do i know got lots of great ideas for S.E, but all they care about is my money. i think the thing that bothers me most... SE isn't new to MMO's and yet every time you guys bring out new content its a $$$$ing gong show.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

This point came up during the development of the Ishgardian Restoration, and we were aware of the risks involved in players visiting other Worlds to help. However, we decided not to place those kinds of restrictions on the World Visit System for the following reasons:

• The number of crafters and gatherers varies considerably between Worlds. The Worlds with the most crafters and gatherers have over four times as many as those with the least.
• Worlds with low numbers of crafters and gatherers would struggle to carry out concerted works without visitors from other Worlds, creating a risk that those players would not be able to experience this content as intended.

The difference in the number of active crafters and gatherers is the main reason for the varying degrees of progress between the various Worlds shown on the Lodestone’s Builders’ Progress Report.

To help ease this disparity, we decided to allow players to visit other Worlds within their data center and lend their assistance to the Ishgardian Restoration efforts of that World.

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How about only limit wanderer so they could contribute only if the current world progress is one step or more behind his own home world ?
the wanderer couldn't access another world firmament if their progress/step is same or more than his own home world
so the small world will benefit from wanderer, and the more crowded world still could access his own firmament

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Originally Posted by Iscah

This is an issue on JP servers as well, or Elemental at least.

Typhoon got their second bar filled late last night - it was around 2am for me, and I gave up waiting when I found out the FATE wouldn't be up until 4am - so went to check the marketboard and witnessed a stampede of wanderers coming through the plaza. "Off to the Firmament in Atomos" they said, and I hesitantly joined them just to see what it was like... but I (and a fair crowd around the Ishgard aetheryte) found the area was congested when I got there.

Back in Typhon today - the FATE must have failed or something, because there was another FATE for the same stage-2 works coming up around midday (10am in Japan, IIRC). Same issue. So many people crowded in that half the plaza looked deserted because I'd hit the display limit. Lots of wanderers AFK or arriving. People from my FC reported that it was congested half an hour before the event began.

The event itself, with a thirty-minute time limit, was completed in three minutes. This seems clearly far beyond their intended participation level.

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Well, this kinda happen in Mana as well
yesterday I've locked out of firmament when the fate going to happen
i usually craft in my own house because the vast crowd of crafter in firmament (and their noises) make the crafting there unenjoyable for me (not to mention there's no market board there)
going back to firmament only for turn in the collectables, but it is congested because of fates,
while in foundation aetheryte there are many people (wanderer or not alike) locked out of as well

From my experience and reading the comments, kill the FATE idea. Right now the short duration and need to be present until the end inherent in the FATE system is causing the problems.

Instead, set a minimum completion number with no maximum length, but a minimum time of 24 hours open. Once it starts everyone gets to hand in up to X per day until the minimum turn-ins and minimum 24 hrs have been reached. Smaller worlds may take an extra day to clear the event but at least everyone would have a chance to contribute and get the reward.

By making the length long enough that anyone can participate at their leisure and limiting the interaction with the event to X turn-ins it removes the incentive to clog the zone. Crafters could still get rewards from normal turn-ins during that time and when they log in for the day get a chance to enjoy the event.

Or change the visual progression of the zone to a personal milestone, allowing players to experience the building after congestion eases up.

Best solution is as follows:

1) Firmament FATES give no scrip rewards for world visitors.

2) Worlds give scrip bonuses to world visitors for all other scrip-earning activities on a sliding scale based on each servers' crafting population. Example: Spriggan and Twintania (new servers with low crafting populations which are already falling behind the other servers on their respective clusters) might give a 50% scrip bonus for meaningful work done by world visitors. Leading servers would give no scrip bonuses, other worlds in-between might give 25% bonus to world visitors.

This, I think would generate the desired assistance from world visitors and not just FATE leeches.

Fate should give no rewards to wanderers until a world actually fails a fate - and then it'll only apply to that world. They could get a special status on the restoration progress page. The only wanderers who would be there would be people who actually want to help out.

Just disable it for everyone and enable it for a datacenter when half the DC reached the end.

Then it is really a server race and after everything is finished we can help the smaller server.

Also set every progress back to start and restart this whole thing without world visit.
It's still time for it.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

1200 people is certainly a lot better than 400. I think an instance holds that many. If 3 isn't enough then add more but i suspect after the first week they'll be a lot less people but I could be wrong.

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If they add more instances, I reckon that the world visit function will be further abused than it already is. This is what happend to the hunting community, this will happen with the Firmament as well.

I think it's possible that if they had multiple instances, they would behave independently and handing in items to instance 1 wouldn't progress instance 2's stockpile.

For comparison, field zone instances had separate hunt marks and FATE timers.

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Originally Posted by Dagget

Best solution is as follows:

1) Firmament FATES give no scrip rewards for world visitors.

2) Worlds give scrip bonuses to world visitors for all other scrip-earning activities on a sliding scale based on each servers' crafting population. Example: Spriggan and Twintania (new servers with low crafting populations which are already falling behind the other servers on their respective clusters) might give a 50% scrip bonus for meaningful work done by world visitors. Leading servers would give no scrip bonuses, other worlds in-between might give 25% bonus to world visitors.

This, I think would generate the desired assistance from world visitors and not just FATE leeches.

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I honestly believe this would be the solution for this communist utopia the devs envisioned this to be

Here is a possible fix im curious if anyone thought of it but how bout oh idk adjust the requirements for completion based on server population. i mean kinda the way they adjust fate difficulty by how many people are doing it. TBH there is no reason why people need to go off server to others to congest it. I don't care for it i do turn ins thats it but i know there are a lot of people out there that want to do it for immersion sake and do it issue free. I mean the response they gave about knowing the risk but decided to take no action to help prevent it is disrespectful. thats a consistent attitude you see in a lot of the shit they do. look at vierra and Buff Cats, still not having head gear. 1st i appreciate them going back and remodeling pieces so they could have some head gear i give them the benifit of the doubt that it was hard to get it all done BUT thats not a get out of jail free card. 1st off ALL mogstation items should have had priority cause people spent real money to support the game other than subscription time. 2nd CURRENT GEAR meaning EVERY NEW HEADPIECE GOING FORWARD should 100% be done for vierra and buff cat there is no excuse that courtesy inst extended to new shit that should be being made. this is the attitude taken towards a lot of shit in this game, half assed....

They just announced that they are going to restrict access to the Firmament to Home Worlds.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-%28Nov.-14%29

Did no of the DEVs came with the idea by adding a limited amount of slots for world visit people for the Ishgardian Restoration?