Recipe changes in 1.19

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Your absolutely right. Now we will have to grind one mat a hundred times instead of 3 mats twice. Then we will have to Level up on items that do not stack and then have to sell them to vendors one at a time..

This is awful..

Unless they are planning a massive increase is crafter XP this has effectively tripled leveling times..

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Take off your "griind goggles". You won't be grinding parts, but finished items. Many of these finished items are nearly completely composed of raw materials.

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ok ignoring the rest of the ignorant drivel

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ok ignoring you. :)

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

As i said before and again. Not only stupid people play this game. Gatherers and crafters will very soon have it all figured out and will have a surplus on everything.

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To me, that's not much different than in FFXI, fighting and hoping for the random drop that will to eventually yield your desired item. The naming convention is different, but the concept is the same. Anyone that liked this aspect of FFXI shouldn't have any problem with this, you're virtually guaranteed your quest turn in will yield the desired product as long as you have what the quest is asking for.

Pay for the nose if you want the HQ or find it with yourself & with friends. And if it's low level HQ being charged out the keister, then it's being targeted at the r50 leveling up the other class. Otherwise, it's non-HQ for everyone else.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok ignoring the rest of the ignorant drivel and will just comment on this one thing.

if you have problems reading this thread then you may not have already seen what it is pointing out.

making cotton yarn....follow so far?

now it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 12 cotton yarn. still with me?

after it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 1 cotton yarn. do you understand still?

before 1 synth makes 12 items....after it takes 12 synths to get the same amount of materials. to grind 12 parts or 12 finished items it will take 12x the number of synths to get the same amount of material.

maybe i should say count from 1 to 12 and see which one you get to first.

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whats wrong with that, you can grind on mats now, which sounds good to me.

youll be able to make a 100 synths and only take up 1 inv spot

This is so lame.. Arrows don't even require arrow heads. These changes are the biggest slap in the face to crafters yet. I think Yoshi might actually be trying to kill this game..

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is so lame.. Arrows don't even require arrow heads. These changes are the biggest slap in the face to crafters yet. I think Yoshi might actually be trying to kill this game..

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Not really no.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

whats wrong with that, you can grind on mats now now which sounds good to me.

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No, now we HAVE to grind two or three mats hundreds of times for 0 xp so that we fill our inventories will unstackable garbage for XP that we will have to vendor one piece at a time because no one will ever buy it. They are removing all the grinding recipes and making the regular recipes require advancementless grinding.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

This is so lame.. Arrows don't even require arrow heads. These changes are the biggest slap in the face to crafters yet. I think Yoshi might actually be trying to kill this game..

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they require material for the arrow head, like an ingot. the crafter then makes the igot into an arrowhead and attaches it all in one shot.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

No, now we HAVE to grind two or three mats hundreds of times for 0 xp so that we fill our inventories will unstackable garbage for XP that we will have to vendor one piece at a time because no one will ever buy it. They are removing all the grinding recipes and making the regular recipes require advancementless grinding.

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there wil always be mats in your rank range were you dont have to worry about getting 0 xp

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No, now we HAVE to grind two or three mats hundreds of times for 0 xp so that we fill our inventories will unstackable garbage for XP that we will have to vendor one piece at a time because no one will ever buy it. They are removing all the grinding recipes and making the regular recipes require advancementless grinding.

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There we go, I fixed it for you. Seriously, doomsaying is not going to help anything. The game will not collapse. You'll still rank up.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

This reminds me of when they changed the leve system so you couldn't fail them on purpose. People were freaking out and demanding for alternate ways to gain sp at that speed or they'll rage quit. We're still leveling at a decent pace and i don't think anyone is even bothered by it anymore.

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Yep, pretty much. All you can really do is let them freak out in their threads until they either actually quit (unlikely) or just get used to it and move on.

ahhhh the trolls already out trolling about an update no out yet. another point to add to me sig!!!

Well, i am annoyed with leves still. I don't do battlecraft since 1.18 and might not do it anymore. Also, i don't rank up battle classes anymore unless someone ask for help with leves or something. Battle itself annoys me since 1.18.

IMO 1.18 damaged the battle system terribly and now 1.19 might do the same to craft. Seems like they want to finish destroying Eorzea before 2012.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

whats wrong with that, you can grind on mats now, which sounds good to me.

youll be able to make a 100 synths and only take up 1 inv spot

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nope it takes 8 synths to make a stack of cotton bolls. follow this thinking. that stack of cotton bolls makes 3 stacks of cotton cloth. which would make 300 synths of mats. that's 3 slots.

after you make those same 300 synths and you only have 3 stacks of cotton bolls and still have to convert that down to a stack and a half of cloth.

now you take that cloth and convert it into an item that stacks to 99 so you do not have to stand up every 30 min to run to the retainer. afterwards by grinding on finished gear you will be constantly npcing finished gear because it only stacks to 1 in your inventory.

to people that don't think they will npc their gear they make leveling up are delusional. out of the hundreds of earrings, rings, masks, or needles needles did you sell compared to how many you npc'd? well over 90% of them i am sure. people will use those same finished gear to grind off just because it's the easiest item to get the mats for. it makes no difference.

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Originally Posted by DNO

ahhhh the trolls already out trolling about an update no out yet. another point to add to me sig!!!

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Aww yeah baby! People who dont like a change SE is making and voice their concern on the official FFXIV forum are all trolls!
You know calling everyone a troll is kind of like always playing the race card. It loses all effectiveness when it is over used.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

There we go, I fixed it for you. Seriously, doomsaying is not going to help anything. The game will not collapse. You'll still rank up.

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no, your wrong. i think the developers dont want anyone to rank up anymore.lol.

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Originally Posted by DNO

ahhhh the trolls already out trolling about an update no out yet. another point to add to me sig!!!

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yay! another troll i can add to my ignore list.

You people are ridiculous =/

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok ignoring the rest of the ignorant drivel and will just comment on this one thing.

if you have problems reading this thread then you may not have already seen what it is pointing out.

making cotton yarn....follow so far?

now it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 12 cotton yarn. still with me?

after it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 1 cotton yarn. do you understand still?

before 1 synth makes 12 items....after it takes 12 synths to get the same amount of materials. to grind 12 parts or 12 finished items it will take 12x the number of synths to get the same amount of material.

maybe i should say count from 1 to 12 and see which one you get to first.

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This is only because you wont have to invest as many total materials into making a finished item. Take the new item Steel Cuirass VS the current Iron Cuirass for example. Iron Cuirasses as they are are a pain in the ass to craft, but after the patch, it will take a lot less time kneeling to produce a Cuirass.

For me being, wanting to mainly craft weapons and armor since day one, going from ore to ingot in one shot is a godsend alone. Looking at the new recipies for cloth gear, I see that they will also take way less materials total than the old ones did.

If they left cotton as yielding 12, then all you would need is 2 cotton balls to make 2 finished items.

Perhaps 1 is way too low, but 12 would be way too high for the current changes to finished items. Maybe if they went to a 2 cotton-2 or 3 yarn conversion it would prove a lot better.

Tho in a way, it is SE following their bad habit of going from one extreme to the other. Weaver right now is extremely easy to rank up, given that you can make so many materials and just rank up off of linen or woolen cloth in the end. Now they are turning it from having the highest material recipe yield to the lowest, as revenge for the extreme ease in ranking weaver.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

IMO 1.18 damaged the battle system terribly and now 1.19 might do the same to craft. Seems like they want to finish destroying Eorzea before 2012.

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Well, you know the saying.... Opinions are like az$hole_s - everyone has them.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Well, i am annoyed with leves still. I don't do battlecraft since 1.18 and might not do it anymore. Also, i don't rank up battle classes anymore unless someone ask for help with leves or something. Battle itself annoys me since 1.18.

IMO 1.18 damaged the battle system terribly and now 1.19 might do the same to craft. Seems like they want to finish destroying Eorzea before 2012.

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you dont do leves since 1.18 since you cant abandon them anymore,lol. i did 100k last night in 2 hours and with a party 8/8 and 100GA id do around 150k in 2 hours.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

nope it takes 8 synths to make a stack of cotton bolls. follow this thinking. that stack of cotton bolls makes 3 stacks of cotton cloth. which would make 300 synths of mats. that's 3 slots.

after you make those same 300 synths and you only have 3 stacks of cotton bolls and still have to convert that down to a stack and a half of cloth.

now you take that cloth and convert it into an item that stacks to 99 so you do not have to stand up every 30 min to run to the retainer. afterwards by grinding on finished gear you will be constantly npcing finished gear because it only stacks to 1 in your inventory.

to people that don't think they will npc their gear they make leveling up are delusional. out of the hundreds of earrings, rings, masks, or needles needles did you sell compared to how many you npc'd? well over 90% of them i am sure. people will use those same finished gear to grind off just because it's the easiest item to get the mats for. it makes no difference.

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or you could npc the mats and start over if its such a hassle

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

you dont do leves since 1.18 since you cant abandon them anymore,lol. i did 100k last night in 2 hours and with a party 8/8 and 100GA id do around 150k in 2 hours.

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I did about 65k last night. I didn't have a lot of GA though. I dont know why people complain about leves not giving enough sp. So dumb.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

I did about 65k last night. I didn't have a lot of GA though. I dont know why people complain about leves not giving enough sp. So dumb.

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also, since the main sp is in the bonus you dont have to worry about rank restrictions so much. i was 49 and i had a 39 in the group and it didnt affect sp at all.

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Originally Posted by Reika

This is only because you wont have to invest as many total materials into making a finished item. Take the new item Steel Cuirass VS the current Iron Cuirass for example. Iron Cuirasses as they are are a pain in the ass to craft, but after the patch, it will take a lot less time kneeling to produce a Cuirass.

For me being, wanting to mainly craft weapons and armor since day one, going from ore to ingot in one shot is a godsend alone. Looking at the new recipies for cloth gear, I see that they will also take way less materials total than the old ones did.

If they left cotton as yielding 12, then all you would need is 2 cotton balls to make 2 finished items.

Perhaps 1 is way too low, but 12 would be way too high for the current changes to finished items. Maybe if they went to a 1 cotton-1 yarn conversion it would prove a lot better.

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look at the cotton crafts again. yes, the did lower the materials to make the items, but did they make it 1/7th of what it was?

2 cotton bolls turn into 9 cotton cloth after completing 4 synths.

36 cotton bolls turn into 9 cotton cloth after 27 synths after.

that is 18 times the number of materials, 7 times the shard cost, and 7 times the number of shards

that's what i am saying they claimed to make it easier to get the materials to get finished items by fixing the recipes, but they increased the time to get the lower parts dramatically which makes the overall craft take longer.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

now it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 12 cotton yarn. still with me?

after it takes 2 cotton bolls to make 1 cotton yarn. do you understand still?

before 1 synth makes 12 items....after it takes 12 synths to get the same amount of materials. to grind 12 parts or 12 finished items it will take 12x the number of synths to get the same amount of material.

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If this is true, then can we imagine how this will affect the market??!! Prices will rise exponentially?! And even now people are complaining they can't sell their items at low prices.

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Originally Posted by Fanzeron

If this is true, then can we imagine how this will affect the market??!! Prices will rise exponentially?! And even now people are complaining they can't sell their items at low prices.

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oh yeah i am already working on turning my stacks of logs into lumber, bolls and flax into yarn, and skins into leather. i'm going to make another alt just to put those items on.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

you dont do leves since 1.18 since you cant abandon them anymore,lol. i did 100k last night in 2 hours and with a party 8/8 and 100GA id do around 150k in 2 hours.

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I never ever abandoned a leve. I just think they are not worth the annoyance of battling in this game.

I never played the game to have 654675476547 classes 50...i always played for fun...and this is why i'm still annoyed with leves, with 1.18 still and already concerned about 1.19.

EDIT: Don't get fooled by my sig...all those ranks (except by BTN) were obtained prior 1.18.

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Originally Posted by Fanzeron

If this is true, then can we imagine how this will affect the market??!! Prices will rise exponentially?! And even now people are complaining they can't sell their items at low prices.

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Prices will rise only if the demand is high. And if the demand is high it means people are buying/selling which is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

This reminds me of when they changed the leve system so you couldn't fail them on purpose. People were freaking out and demanding for alternate ways to gain sp at that speed or they'll rage quit. We're still leveling at a decent pace and i don't think anyone is even bothered by it anymore.

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I don't understand why people are raging about the pace at which we'll be leveling because that really hasn't changed. All that changed is what we will be leveling on.

What bothers me is the cost. Look at this example of crafting 200 trapper's hats (something I did from r19 to 23ish) that each NPC'd for 1350g

Recipe:
1x Cotton Cloth, 1x Dodo Leather, 1x Hippogryph Sinew Cord

Before:
500g Dodo Skin = 4x Dodo leather (125g per leather).
500g Cotton Boll x2 (1000g) = 12x Thread = 12x Cloth (80g per cloth).
750g Hippogryph Sinew Cord = 12x Sinew (62.5g per cord)

(50 hide, 200 leather = 25,000g) + (34 bolls, 200x cloth = 17,000g) + (17 sinew, 200 cords = 12,750g)
Total Cost: 54,750g
Total Return: 270,000g ~ 215,250g PROFIT



After: (Assuming no inflation, which there will be because supply has no chance of keeping up with the massive demand raw materials will have)
500g Dodo Skin = 1x Dodo leather (500g per leather).
500g Cotton Boll x2 (1000g) = 1x Thread = 1x Cloth (1000g per cloth).
750g Hippogryph Sinew Cord = 1x Sinew (750g per cord)? (Correct me if this is wrong, I don't remember seeing what it said for this, I will correct my math accordingly)

(200 hide, 200 leather = 100,000g) + (400 bolls, 200x cloth = 200,000g) + (200 sinew, 200 cords = 150,000g)
Total Cost: 450,000g
Total Return: 270,000g ~ 180,000g LOSS

So suddenly, the same inexpensive recipe I used to rank up and stash some cash for future not-so-profitable ones just became a huge loss. That is without the price inflation that will occur without a huge increase in either A. gatherers, B. the quantity of raw material that they will sell. This also doesn't include the increased amount of crystals I will need to fulfill all these synths. As a leatherworker, I'm screwed. All my stuff comes from mob drops which will now be even more crowded than they used to be.

Don't get me wrong, I love the update and unlike most people think its a overall positive step. The financial side of things scare me though. Feels like everyone who is already an R50 crafters will just be able to make lots of money at the expense of all the developing crafters. (As in, they will be using this inflation to sell finished items for more money while we have to pay more just for the raw materials to skill up on our bulk-loss-synths)

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Yep, pretty much. All you can really do is let them freak out in their threads until they either actually quit (unlikely) or just get used to it and move on.

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"Move On" untill the game becomes totally idiotic and joylesswith no future like FFXI ended up being and people just left it to play farmville on FB or something. ya thats the way to deal with bad updates.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I never ever abandoned a leve. I just think they are not worth the annoyance of battling in this game.

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you said you stopped doing them after 1.18. But if you never abandoned them what the hell does 1.18 have to do with you not doing them anymore?

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Aww yeah baby! People who dont like a change SE is making and voice their concern on the official FFXIV forum are all trolls!
You know calling everyone a troll is kind of like always playing the race card. It loses all effectiveness when it is over used.

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Ahhh yea bitching about a change before you get your hands on it is smart?

You know bitching before each and every patch (which most of the "trolls" here do) is like playing the race card. It LOST all effectiveness because it IS over used.

(want examples look at my sig.)

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I never ever abandoned a leve. I just think they are not worth the annoyance of battling in this game.

I never played the game to have 654675476547 classes 50...i always played for fun...and this is why i'm still annoyed with leves, with 1.18 still and already concerned about 1.19.

EDIT: Don't get fooled by my sig...all those ranks (except by BTN) were obtained prior 1.18.

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then how did 1.18 ruin leves for you, they didnt really change much.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

you said you stopped doing them after 1.18. But if you never abandoned them what the hell does 1.18 have to do with you not doing them anymore?

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The battle, the overall sp, the reward...none of them makes battlecraft worth doing.

The magic word is also the forbidden one...i "enjoyed" doing leves because i "enjoyed" battling here. Who would say...i liked the original game with all its flaws and bugs and 3 seconds latency and MW crashing 3 times a day.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yay! another troll i can add to my ignore list.

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a troll has an ignore list? i thought that was for normal people who don't bitch before the system drops?
I guess im wrong.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Yep, pretty much. All you can really do is let them freak out in their threads until they either actually quit (unlikely) or just get used to it and move on.

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Hahah you siad it my man. o i love my sig it gets bigger each update!!!??? lol

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Originally Posted by Razor

Don't get me wrong, I love the update and unlike most people think its a overall positive step. The financial side of things scare me though. Feels like everyone who is already an R50 crafters will just be able to make lots of money at the expense of all the developing crafters. (As in, they will be using this inflation to sell finished items for more money while we have to pay more just for the raw materials to skill up on our bulk-loss-synths)

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not only that you also have to realize gatherers and battle craft will increase their cost on the mats once they put the item for sell in the wards. i know when i sell logs for example i take into account that that one log is going to give a crafter between 4-5 synths off of it. since that item will become a higher demand the price will rise because they will not be able to keep up with the demand. the item will become a higher demand because getting 2 synths instead of 5 means they will buy 5 logs to get the same amount of synths and unless the sp is increased the same amount of sp per synth.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

The battle, the overall sp, the reward...none of them makes battlecraft worth doing.

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the gil was nerfed a bit, the sp is still better then grind and quite god id say. i went from 49-50 in 2 hours. I think saying 1.18 ruined leves for you is kinda a dumb statement if ou dont ahve any facts to back it up. you could just say you dont like doing leves, but i wont have anything to do with 1.18.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

oh yeah i am already working on turning my stacks of logs into lumber, bolls and flax into yarn, and skins into leather. i'm going to make another alt just to put those items on.

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You could do that, but then they are adding felt armors and such, which I think surpasses woolen. Tho cotton still has its uses for underwear at least, since it looks like they didn't add new underwear ><. I was thinking about doing it for logs too, but its best to just grind as much away on walnut masks as possible before the change, because the rank of that recipe may change. same for a lot of recipes. I will probably find myself upset to find out that making cobalt ingots would have been excellent SP at higher ranks, where as i used so much iron/silver getting BSM to r50 :(.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

The battle, the overall sp, the reward...none of them makes battlecraft worth doing.

The magic word is also the forbidden one...i "enjoyed" doing leves because i "enjoyed" battling here. Who would say...i liked the original game with all its flaws and bugs and 3 seconds latency and MW crashing 3 times a day.

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the battle is the reason i haven't done any battle class since the update besides leves every now and then to pick up guild marks. if i don't have enough marks offered i do strictly gathering leves. i just don't like the battle system as it is now and stated i'd wait until they completed the system before i started doing it again.