Because when I queue into something and get a healer that has exactly 0 clue what they're doing despite having all level 90 healers, I know I'm going to be able to get through it, even if I have to drag them kicking and screaming.
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consistently i have found during this whole situation that warrior mains are some of the most self-centered players in the game.
anything that isn't about them, they hate with a vitriol so bitter and deep that if someone else has fun or wants to have fun, they throw a hissy fit because they WANT xiv to be a single player game that caters to their "i solo the game" fantasy, while everyone else is forced to be their personal cheerleaders.
at least how that's they've been acting through this whole situation.
selfish. entitled. crybullies. who want to call anyone who disagrees with them entitled crybabies.
reminds me of the popular teens when i was in high school... 15-20 years ago. shame they never grew out of that mentality.
and they do keep proving me right below lmao.
Indeed.
In other games, a tank without the support of a healer would drop dead within the first 10-30 seconds of a boss fight.
I do hoever think that the "problems" with healers and tanks in FFXIV is caused due to SE finding ways to make them less stressful for players to play as.
Years ago there was this huge problem with people complaining about the stress and anxiety caused from playing those roles.
So I don't know how SE would be able to make them more important without causing the same problems to the players.
A lot of players in FFXIV enjoy this game because it's not as stressful like other MMOs out there.
It very much is a problem, and it is setting the new standard.
You openly admitted that making the other tanks more tanky was questionable when Warrior is still leading the pack *by far*.
Being overpowered is not a job fantasy, it's just being overpowered.
''Too edgy to die''
''Too American to die''
''Too holy to die''
See how shallow this all is on paper under the context of the jobs you don't care about, just to justify a ridiculous amount of sustain that's starting to hurt the gameplay integrity of other roles?
Tanks need nerfs, not buffs.
So what you are saying is players shouldn't have to hold healers to any standards whatsoever, and that instances should essentially be able to be completed healer-free.
The answer to this issue is not Warriors invaliding the healer role entirely so the presence of a healer doesn't matter. In this scenerio you described, what should happen is the group fails. That healer then needs to evaluate their gameplay and develop some skills. Then the group replaces that healer with someone who actually heals so you can finish.
What about when I queue into a trial and both healers die, the WAR doesn't bother to try to keep any of the dps alive so they wipe to raidwides then because he's an antisocial freak we have to stay dead for 30 minutes so he can pretend like picking the immortal tank and managing not to stand in orange circles is impressing us all?
Unsub and you’ll make a difference. This won’t lol
Paladin Identity is... actually I'm not really sure the jobs quests weren't very good,
DRK solos the temple knights in one of the early quests through the strength of the abyss and their own pain, Living Dead's cooldown should be 25 seconds to be consistent with the job fantasy,
Gunbreaker uses carts to project defensive shields so they should basically never take damage under all their aetheric barriers, just remove Carthasis of Corundum and Brutal Shell should be a 12k potency barrier instead,
"Job fantasy" is not an excuse to keep in abilities so broken they're warping a different role when it's supposed to be a multiplayer game.
Healers need more damage buttons. Even in savage easily over 50% of my total actions (GCDs and oGCDs) are pressing a single button, this is not a proper rotation nor how a job should be designed. Besides past expansions show that healers can manage more damage buttons and flow and work even better.
(Also you know, Savage is not the whole game, the role should be fun at all difficulties from msq to ultimates)
I do think WAR's sustain is overpowered but Raw Intuition and Bloodwhetting are also the core identity of the job and what makes warrior so much fun.
As a WHM main (who also plays WAR), I do think they need to keep the ability but tone it down the potency a little or increase the cool down time.
Maybe there needs to be a debuff or other mechanic to decrease DPS or increaae physical/manage vulnerability after use so it's not just a no thought action that completely ignores the need for any healing. After all warrior is supposed to be sort of a berserker so it makes sense there is so punishment for going all in for a period of time.
Overall I do think jobs need some self sustainability. Especially for when not in party but any sustainability should come at some form of cost if the team isn't willing to cut back on potency or cool downs.
Thanks for showing that raidwide damage is so irrelevant to tanks that even reading a post that explicitly says dps died to it you can't even fathom it exists.
You know whats really sad when I think about it? The most fun and challenge I ever have tanking in casual content is using my kit to deep DPS alive after healers go down and try to finish the duty while still tanking. That level of engagement should be what the healer role gives by default. There really truly is no trinity system in this game.
Yes, Warriors/Tanks are not the main issue as the problem has been here before the stupid amounts of buffs they got.
Healers have the problem. They basically got a leg cut off. A big part of the issue, however, is that Tanks come up to the healer and start to rub salt in the wound saying they are helping. Then you see Warrior come around the corner with a 5lb bag of salt and lemons.
I wonder how long WAR players would hold on to that idea if the tank role ever gets diluted to the point where it's perfectly viable (optimal even) to run dungeons without tanks. And even the most difficult content is completed without tanks. And healers/dps get tools traditionally reserved for tanks, up to a point where dps/healers are better than tanks at parts of the tank role.
My guess is they wouldn't be as patient as many healers have been.
And being unkillable as a job identity is (am struggling to avoid getting insulting with this) not the best idea anyway.
Tanks taking over the healer role is very much a part of what is wrong with the healer role. I would say it's the biggest part.
Let's just remember that the only reason Living Dead on DRK was given a massive healing on attack, was because healer were unwilling to heal the drk. It wasn't aboit being unable to do it, seeing as healers are constantly complaining about having too many heals for how much damage goes out.
Thank you for being considerate, it's something I have very under control these days. The reason I suggested it isn't because button pressing is the problem, but rather the default position and action healers do is significantly more repetitive than other roles which can accelerate getting a condition like trigger finger.
With other jobs, at minimum there is often a 1-2-3 pattern which is a decent variation of movement for your hand compared to the healer 1-1-1, which is more akin to the motion of an office employee using their mouse, because your hand and finger are locked into a single position for far longer. This makes it more likely that these players will develop micro-tears and traumas in the tendons because you're incentivized to lock your hand and finger into a fixed, non-resting position when you don't occasionally weave in an oGCD. And it means getting good at healer, which incentivizes that 111111 gameplay, would be an increased risk of developing such a condition compared to the generalized risk factors for video games.
It's not something to alert the news about, but it's something to consider the long term consequences of given how healers have played like this for years now. Which is more than enough time for veteran healers in particular to develop adverse effects from in comparison to other roles.
Let's not even pretend we're talking about WAR's supposed class fantasy here.
"Too angry to die" =\= "Too angry to let me or anyone else die every 25 sec"
PLD and DRK having that stuff made sense (DRK less so but StB's reworked of the job had to give it SOMETHING after ripping out so much of its unique actions), and maybe GNB too, but the reason Bloodwhetting even exists as is it's because of Nascent Flash. An action granted trying to give parity to the fact that they envisioned all tanks being able to do something to help the main tank while off tanking, forgetting that they already long since tossed out tankbusters that were any threat to a tank in normal modes whatsoever.
They set jobs up to fit situations they envision potentially being required ahead of expansions, and then these situations never materialize.
Nascent only even returns HP because they stole Bloodbath from MRD (WAR's base class) entering StB, something that keenly hit WAR's identity up until that point (self healing through big burst damage). They even reworked WAR in 4.2 partially to allow it to self heal more again. Never could it heal other players until ShB.
Not saying that this is a WAR problem alone, though, it was a whole battle system idea that had no reason to exist other than convenience because the game wasn't suddenly being designed to require all this extra, free healing from tanks.
"Unwilling" is a very misleading term to use. It implies that healers were intentionally ignoring Living Dead and letting their tank die on purpose, but that wasn't the issue. There is no indication that the Dark Knight needed to be healed to max HP at all. No visual queues, no telegraphs, no audio cues... Nothing. The same is true for Doom. The game does jack all to teach you that mechanic or tell you when its in effect. You have the debuff icons, but they are microscopic and drowning in a sea of icons on the party list. Yes, a decent player can pick up on that once they've learned what that does, but that quite frankly isn't good enough.
In other words, healers weren't "unwilling" to heal a Dark Knight. Many of them either didn't know they were supposed to heal the Dark Knight, knew about the mechanic but didn't realize the Dark Knight used it, or realized too late and couldn't heal them in time.
You sure it wasn't because every other tank could basically handle the healing afterwards entirely on their own?
Living Dead had actually been preferable in certain circumstances in the past, such as needing a shorter cooldown than Hallowed Ground but a longer duration than Holmgang (also the freedom of movement; Holmgang used to bind the WAR for its duration too). Then they normalized them in ShB, but forgot that DRK's wasn't designed with exact equality in mind, and they now had 1/4 healers able to e.g. Benediction instead of 1/3, and AST's top end potency of Essential Dignity dropped so it was less able to heal up LD, etc.
Not to mention, so many healers don't even understand how Living Dead helps a DRK mitigate to this day, requiring that they play differently to truly capitalize in many situations.
It's certainly more complicated than "healer were unwilling to heal the drk".
100% agree and the core identity of jobs should and do change over time.
Though, with warrior the change has seen a ton of praise and I'd hate healer woes to take away from other players experience. Especially with the increasing mindset of healers aren't needed. And yes, at the same time healers shouldn't be forced to suffer to make other roles happy either.
True, there's no real que that the DRK had to be healed for 100% of their base HP (if I'm remembering it correctly).
But even after people made Macros, even typing manually in chat mentioning that when Living Dead was activated that they needed to be healed, healers more often than not still didn't do it.
Was it because the healers didn't pay attention to the chat?
Or was it that the healers were busy elsewhere?
Regardless, I can say that I died more times than survived the Living Dead due to the lack of healings.
I switched to RPR when they came out, so I never really played DRK when Living Dead got the self heals to experience it in action.
I just lvl'd DRK to 90 due to my DRK retainers.
Yeah I mean. If your ideas for how to fix healers involve bringing down the other two roles (but tanks specifically, lets be real here) then y'all can stay mad. Be irrelevant. Be boring. Come up with better ideas that don't involve bringing everyone else down with you.
Of course! You were just trying to learn, so why shouldn't I share what I know? It's definitely one of those issues that is difficult because it's not in your face so it's easier for people to brush it off. And it won't affect everyone, but it is an accessibility issue at the end of the day.
Don't forget that the potency required to heal a tank's hp pool nigh doubled in shadowbringers.
To guarantee a drk didn't die on scholar you had to have a bunch of aetherflow on hand and *be ready* to burn it, or mix in a reci et adlo. It was pretty dicey, I had to practice how I could do it in various situations on scholar in time.
With no other healing sources, four un-crit cure 2s was not 100% of a drk's hp. That's ten seconds of GCD spam, for you non healers out there. Simply put, the requirements to save the DRK jumped to unsustainable levels without exceptional healers ready to jump on that instantly, or required way more cooldowns to hit.
You know, cooldowns that healers may not have in hand if you were just forced to invuln.
This gets even worse if your healer had lower gear in a roulette and the tank had higher gear. That's more hp to heal and less potency per heal due to gear.
There's a reason DRK LD suddenly became a bigger problem than it used to be. It wasn't lazy healers.
But you know, that requires people to know how healing has changed over time, instead of just making baseless comments.
Hey, I never said I wasn't in favor of that. I'm all in favor of making healer more interesting. I'm not in favor of this mentality coming up that tanks are evil and need to be gutted. I'm more than happy to support healers being made more interesting without having to gut anybody else.
From my experience, Living Dead was practically never used in a duty with only 1 healer, due to the lack of the difficulty to bring drk to even activate it.
So the content a DRK usually did use it always had 2 healers whom both could heal the DRK to full.
Imo it wasn't a sole healers duty to top the DRK up, but a shared one.
Simply saying is as from my understanding, your comment was done from a single healer scenario, not a duo.
Now that you mention it, entering StB and again ShB forced DRK to wear Vit accessories and then for ALL accessories to carry VIT (as well as the removal of Convalescence and reduction of Soul eater/Abyssal Drain HP restoration), where Living Dead was conceived for HW where players had the freedom to wear STR only accessories (and often did), spam Dark Arts Abyssal Drain on trash and even use spare job stat points on STR all lowering their HP total to be healed.