New Alpha Video

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Originally Posted by Ceravic

I'd rather sacrifice the animations for a beautiful world and good gameplay instead of the shitty copypasta world we have now. Any of you that actually prefer 1.0 to this must have Stockholm Syndrome.

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But the char need to be a part of the world with the animation. If the animation sucks, the char would not seem to be part of the world and just looking through a window to the world.

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Originally Posted by Felis

But the char need to be a part of the world with the animation. If the animation sucks, the char would not seem to be part of the world and just looking through a window to the world.

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I'm glad this the first video game you've ever played, but there have been many games made before that don't have the best animations, especially ones as minor as "start and stop" animations, and can still be incredibly fun.

Your priorities are set wrong.

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Originally Posted by Ceravic

I'd rather sacrifice the animations for a beautiful world and good gameplay instead of the shitty copypasta world we have now. Any of you that actually prefer 1.0 to this must have Stockholm Syndrome.

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Yes, we all know 1.0 was crap-tier at launch. That doesn't excuse the degradation in animation quality though. So yes, in terms of animation, so far, I do prefer 1.0.

The issues of gameplay and copypasta world have already been dealt with to some degree and are separate issues. Until they come out and say "we had to sacrifice the animation for the gameplay and the world" then I don't know why you'd draw a relationship between them as an excuse.

Just because I complain about the animation doesn't mean I don't care about the copypasta world or what have you. Complaining about something in 2.0 doesn't inherently mean that I prefer 1.0 overall.

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Originally Posted by casker

Yes, we all know 1.0 was crap-tier at launch. That doesn't excuse the degradation in animation quality though. So yes, in terms of animation, so far, I do prefer 1.0.

The issues of gameplay and copypasta world have already been dealt with to some degree and are separate issues. Until they come out and say "we had to sacrifice the animation for the gameplay and the world" then I don't know why you'd draw a relationship between them as an excuse.

Just because I complain about the animation doesn't mean I don't care about the copypasta world or what have you. Complaining about something in 2.0 doesn't inherently mean that I prefer 1.0 overall.

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Uhh they have said it i'm sure of it and its not only bcuz of that not having those tiny sluggish animations will allow more ppl to enjoy this game with us using less powerful PCs , it will allow 200 characters and 2000 monsters on screen and many more reason.. BIG reasons to get rid of the clunky old system.
Is hilarious how some say "you can't just stop when running you'll fall over" ..we aren't running for the gold medal in game you just trot

Sigh; okay, this is my first post in this thread, though slogging through certainly made me feel like I had already joined the debate. So let's try a different approach (in context of the preceding the following may sound satirical, I promise it is merely my thoughts put in a "Letter to the Editor" format):

Wow, Yoshi-P and dev team, this is great. Thank you very much for all of your hard work. The ambiance is superb and the music and ambient sound effects really go a long way to build just the right emotional atmosphere. Lighting and textures look great. I also love the overall feeling of the environment. What we saw of gameplay looks nice and smooth - fun as well, though it's hard to tell with the little we've seen.

Well, there's still a long way to go before release, so let's see, is there anything that can be done to really bring the quality up further.... Ah, I know, those animations look like the could use a little... okay a lot of polish. Please look into that if you are not already.

I feel this animation thing really needs to be a question on the live letter thread. If you really want your questions/thoughts to be heard, you need to speak up on there more than on this thread, and people the agree with the question should like it so there is more of a chance that your question will be answered. It's fine to voice your thoughts, but we discussed this kind of thing multiple times on multiple threads. :p

Now going to play RE6 XD!

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Uhh they have said it i'm sure of it and its not only bcuz of that not having those tiny sluggish animations will allow more ppl to enjoy this game with us using less powerful PCs , it will allow 200 characters and 2000 monsters on screen and many more reason.. BIG reasons to get rid of the clunky old system.
Is hilarious how some say "you can't just stop when running you'll fall over" ..we aren't running for the gold medal in game you just trot

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The only thing they really said was they had to get rid of the old animation for vague indirect reason. It could be a simple mater of the old animations being incompatable with the new system. It could be that the morph shapes used for thansition had a lock error. We don't really know, they never said.

What I do know is, the lack of momentum is pretty jarring after seeing it for so long. Even a light jog dosn't end abruptly. It never hurt the game for me before, but I have no idea if it needs to be removed entierly or if it can be replaced. No one but the dev team does and they're not sharing that info with us. But as it's cause for concern with some of us expecting a Square quality game, I don't think is should be left to chance.

Saw this post on the ffxiv facebook page, in the comments about the video. People were voicing concern over the start/stop animation and Wolf Ookami, listed as the Editor in Chief for FFXIV - A Realm Reborn, said this:

"If I remember well, it's not a mistake, the start-stop animation is removed by choice because it causes some graphics collisions problems and doesn't fit well with the new gameplay ^^' I'll try to find the link where I read or watch that."

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Wow, Yoshi-P and dev team, this is great. Thank you very much for all of your hard work. The ambiance is superb and the music and ambient sound effects really go a long way to build just the right emotional atmosphere. Lighting and textures look great. I also love the overall feeling of the environment. What we saw of gameplay looks nice and smooth - fun as well, though it's hard to tell with the little we've seen.

Well, there's still a long way to go before release, so let's see, is there anything that can be done to really bring the quality up further.... Ah, I know, those animations look like the could use a little... okay a lot of polish. Please look into that if you are not already.

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Why does this sound like you're in an abusive relationship with SE?

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Sigh; okay, this is my first post in this thread, though slogging through certainly made me feel like I had already joined the debate. So let's try a different approach (in context of the preceding the following may sound satirical, I promise it is merely my thoughts put in a "Letter to the Editor" format):

Wow, Yoshi-P and dev team, this is great. Thank you very much for all of your hard work. The ambiance is superb and the music and ambient sound effects really go a long way to build just the right emotional atmosphere. Lighting and textures look great. I also love the overall feeling of the environment. What we saw of gameplay looks nice and smooth - fun as well, though it's hard to tell with the little we've seen.

Well, there's still a long way to go before release, so let's see, is there anything that can be done to really bring the quality up further.... Ah, I know, those animations look like the could use a little... okay a lot of polish. Please look into that if you are not already.

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I wish others were able to give their feedback that way. Most of the posts just trolling and complaining must be very frustrating for the devs. Especially because it does look great.

whats the next thing people cry about thats not important?

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Originally Posted by nibelunc

I wish others were able to give their feedback that way. Most of the posts just trolling and complaining must be very frustrating for the devs. Especially because it does look great.

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Trolling is intentionally being obnoxious with ideas you don't even believe.
I don't think the tone some have is disingenuine nd honestly, I don't blame them. Square has made a LOT of mistakes this past decade and the amount of trust people have in them has lowered substantially.

But yeah. As important as these issues are, they could stand to be less disruptive.

:| sad... the animation in 1.0 iis really damn better than what is shown in alpha thou... just sayin' .

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Originally Posted by indira

whats the next thing people cry about thats not important?

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I'm sorry that there's people who enjoy visual experiences.

Something Final Fantasy is clearly not known for. Not one bit.

If you are concerned about the animations, the second post in the Producer's Live asks specifically about it.

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Originally Posted by casker

Will you please consider adapting the old movement animations from the 1.0 client and implement them into 2.0?

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Go 'Like' it to improve it's chance of being asked to Yoshi-P. (as of this post, it only has 78 likes)

And please stop whining about it in this thread - you aren't accomplishing anything.

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Originally Posted by SodRansom

Saw this post on the ffxiv facebook page, in the comments about the video. People were voicing concern over the start/stop animation and Wolf Ookami, listed as the Editor in Chief for FFXIV - A Realm Reborn, said this:

"If I remember well, it's not a mistake, the start-stop animation is removed by choice because it causes some graphics collisions problems and doesn't fit well with the new gameplay ^^' I'll try to find the link where I read or watch that."

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community rep also said similar things..so..move on...

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

If you are concerned about the animations, the second post in the Producer's Live asks specifically about it.



Go 'Like' it to improve it's chance of being asked to Yoshi-P. (as of this post, it only has 78 likes)

And please stop whining about it in this thread - you aren't accomplishing anything.

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But the 1.0 animations aren't great either.

I want new animations, specifically turning animations.

Those Blue Dots have to go >.>

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

But the 1.0 animations aren't great either.

I want new animations, specifically turning animations.

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Really the stoping animation which we have right now in 1.0. is sooo overdone, annoying and unfluent. im happy that they removed it...

seriously have you tried out yourself in reallife? are you really stoping your moves like that? with 1-2 more steps in order to stop? thats not that real.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Those Blue Dots have to go >.>

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i love them because they are final fantasy style to me.. like FF12... it makes it different to common MMOs so just stop it.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Really the stoping animation which we have right now in 1.0. is sooo overdone, annoying and unfluent. im happy that they removed it...

seriously have you tried out yourself in reallife? are you really stoping your moves like that? with 1-2 more steps in order to stop? thats not that real.

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They are running in FFXIV - you should try running and stopping in one step. Probably pull a taru face plant lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

They are running in FFXIV - you should try running and stopping in one step. Probably pull a taru face plant lol

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I'd say the speed is that of "jogging" or even slower. and yes i can stop without doing 2-3 steps after each stop.

and i dont need it, other MMorpgs dont have it as well. just play it first and then start complain. because it will feel much more fluent im really that sure.
the more they reduce the laggy, the dull gameplay from the game im really fine with it. i fall asleep while playing FFXIV 1.0. after the years.. and they did good about it to reduce its slowlyness, the sluggish thing about it in EVERY point.

its like the people complained about downgraded charactergraphics... which wont come true like we saw in several videos now..
FFXIV people are so exhausting ;XD

hopefully yoshida wont listen to these voices this time. i want a new gaming experience and not FFXIV 1.0. anymore because some people seem not to be able to let 1.0. go.


and thats true.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I'd say the speed is that of "jogging" or even slower. and yes i can stop without doing 2-3 steps after each stop.

and i dont need it, other MMorpgs dont have it as well. just play it first and then start complain. because it will feel much more fluent im really that sure.
the more they reduce the laggy, the dull gameplay from the game im really fine with it. i fall asleep while playing FFXIV 1.0. after the years.. and they did good about it to reduce its slowlyness.

its like the people complained about downgraded charactergraphics... which wont come true like we saw in several videos now..
FFXIV people are so exhausting ;XD

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Even a natural break in jogging is an extra step or so. If you really watch people break from a higher then walk movement they will usually lessen the forces to their knees by taking another step.

Most MMOs have low graphic dedication - Square Enix however loves to have great aesthetics which you cant have by neglecting things that dont form to gameplay. The attention to small details is required when you are going for that extra gold medal.

The character graphics did look like crap in that TGS trailer though lol. Obviously it was only a temporary aspect - its better to bitch now however instead of waiting till its too late.

Hey hey.. now that you made my cake.. go make it again! Rather than during the baking processes asking "Uhm.. I want a little more sugar preeez"

Of course how some people give their opinions could be better.


"Worst game ever, I hate this shit, SE is going to crash and burn" . . . We could do without that.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I'd say the speed is that of "jogging" or even slower. and yes i can stop without doing 2-3 steps after each stop.

and i dont need it, other MMorpgs dont have it as well. .

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The mentality that will sign ARR's death. Doing things "just because of other MMOs" is why every new MMO happened to fail excludin exclusive problems like failing to recreate it properly or doing it to the exact letter than it's essentially a clone. This isn't the same like telling SE to learn what they did before XIV and make it better that's basically saying "X MMO doesn't do this so XIV shouldn't/X MMO does this so XIV should too."

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the more they reduce the laggy, the dull gameplay from the game im really fine with it

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This has nothing to do with animations..why do people fail to grasp this? XIII and XIII-2 uses the same engine, those games were far from laggy. SE stated over and over, it's not the animations or graphics that made XIV 1.0 laggy and unresponsive, it was the core systems on an engine not designed for MMORPGs.

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hopefully yoshida wont listen to these voices this time

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Yoshida is listening to the loudest group of players which aren't always right, just so you know. Let them do what they want to do. He's bringing the servers back online even though it serves NO purpose to do so all because A HANDFUL of people want them up.

That speaks volumes about his stance on who he'll listen to. He's a smart guy, but clearly he'll cater to a bare minimum if he feels like it. The loudest minority are actually the players who have concerns about the game, whereas you have people that accepts anything and everything SE does without question.

It's ok to question certain things. It's ok to show concern. It's ok to complain.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Even a natural break in jogging is an extra step or so. If you really watch people break from a higher then walk movement they will usually lessen the forces to their knees by taking another step.

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I don't know why he uses real life examples to justify this stuff. He even justified the camera-character pivot direction change by real life standards.....

I never in my life turned my body when I turned my head to look a certain way lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Even a natural break in jogging is an extra step or so. If you really watch people break from a higher then walk movement they will usually lessen the forces to their knees by taking another step.

Most MMOs have low graphic dedication - Square Enix however loves to have great aesthetics which you cant have by neglecting things that dont form to gameplay. The attention to small details is required when you are going for that extra gold medal.

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im not caring about that blabla actually. because i want to have much smoother gameplay... the minimum that i can experience in other MMOrpgs.. and i think you just start complaing about it when you really concentrate on things like these..

well i think the game does not need those 2-3 extra tip tap steps.. really. my opinion.
i better take the much smoother gameplay than that. [you can have it]

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Originally Posted by Elexia

The mentality that will sign ARR's death. Doing things "just because of other MMOs" is why every new MMO happened to fail excludin exclusive problems like failing to recreate it properly or doing it to the exact letter than it's essentially a clone. This isn't the same like telling SE to learn what they did before XIV and make it better that's basically saying "X MMO doesn't do this so XIV shouldn't/X MMO does this so XIV should too."

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well you do know that FFXI was designed like Everquest?

But anyways... i think FFXIV is its own game.. it does not look any WoWish at all, therefore the walking animations etc. are far superior still in contrast to that (even without extra tip taps).
its a game on his own.. limit break etc... nothing that other MMorpgs have.. i dont understand people saying SE isnt doing their "own stuff" right now.

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This has nothing to do with animations..why do people fail to grasp this? XIII and XIII-2 uses the same engine, those games were far from laggy. SE stated over and over, it's not the animations or graphics that made XIV 1.0 laggy and unresponsive, it was the core systems on an engine not designed for MMORPGs.

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its about the unfluent gameplay.. as yoshida stated these "extra tip taps" need about 1-2 seconds while in that time you cant perform any action. thats why they removed it. it would mostly be disturbing in pvp and boss battles . and i personally prefer a game to be fun, rather than complaining about 1-2 tip taps. just wait and see how it feels.

seriously you people cant let 1.0. go.

and if you ask me there are much more and important points that have to be changed.. they need to implement wandering npc's within the cities to be more lively.. and not these "tip taps". thats flaming on the highest (or silliest?) level.

you should really listen to yourself what you are talking about... complaining about "extra tip taps".


that can just happen in a FFXIV 1.0. forum

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

i love them because they are final fantasy style to me.. like FF12... it makes it different to common MMOs so just stop it.

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Those Blue Dots Have to go <.<

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

well you do know that FFXI was designed like Everquest?

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not even fking close. it was built upon Everquests already established Core simply because of Everquest successfully being run on the PS2 at the time. the actual game couldn't have been farther from everquest.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

well you do know that FFXI was designed like Everquest?

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No I didn't know this despite Tanaka specifically stating FFXI was inspired by Everquest and designed around FFIII.

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seriously you people cant let 1.0. go.

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It sounds more like YOU can't let 1.0 go, because YOU are the one who is having issues here, not anyone else showing concern.

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as yoshida stated

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As Yoshida stated, the animations and graphics weren't causing the game to be laggy. As Tanaka stated, the engine wasn't suited for XIV and they made a mistake in using it. The "extra tip-taps" works fine in every other game on the planet because the game is on an engine that is designed to be efficient for that type of code. The Crystal Tools engine is a cinematic engine primarily for seamless transitions into gameplay from cutscenes, XIII is the perfect example of this.

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and if you ask me there are much more and important points that have to be changed.. they need to implement wandering npc's within the cities to be more lively.. and not these "tip taps"

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Contradiction #1. Adding Lively NPCs requires more specific animations and script calls to them than a player does for "tip taps" as you put it.

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it would mostly be disturbing in pvp and boss battles

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They removed certain animations for PvP reasons as they said straight out. They made a lot of changes for PvP.

I dont think it takes two full threads (could even be more) to mention the stopping animations. does it?

I think they get the point. its like reading the "questions for the Dev's" post and seeing the same things over and over. the distaste in animations is obvious by now. can we focus on something else, please? its "GRASS" all over again.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Really the stoping animation which we have right now in 1.0. is sooo overdone, annoying and unfluent. im happy that they removed it...

seriously have you tried out yourself in reallife? are you really stoping your moves like that? with 1-2 more steps in order to stop? thats not that real.



i love them because they are final fantasy style to me.. like FF12... it makes it different to common MMOs so just stop it.

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I don't swivel to turn on the spot.

Tonkra, please stop posting, every time you do you sound dumber.

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how are the "blue dots" a final fantasy feel? it was only used in one FF. i'm not opposed to them but i see them as more of an immersion killer than spinning on the spot when you turn the camera.

As someone who has been studying animation and body movement for the past 4 years, I feel I can say wih confidence that taking a small step or two at the end of a jog is the furthest thing from overdone.

It's what we like to call Follow Through, one of the 12 principles of animation, and is used to carry the idea of momentum, giving your subject a more natural appeal which is something that a game with a natural art style could benifit from.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

Those Blue Dots Have to go <.<

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Oh well it really makes me SICK about you flamer people... unable to see what yoshi p. is doing. he is actually making a real Final Fantasy out of the "shity" FF Online franchise.

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6137613035.jpg

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6139303666.jpg

i love them.. its like saying "remove the hand cursor from game" its like saying "remove the blue User Interface from game"

because you need your ocher .... earth in earth color tones. ITS FINAL FANTASY now for f. sake.

and i scream "hurray". let it be a different game than FFXIV 1.0. and a different game than FFXI! Let Final Fantasy Online turn into a real FF Franchise. which is about blue neon User Interfaces ... and what the heck ever. Ever Played star ocean Online? its so fresh that design in contrast to all western MMorpgs.

Let FFXIV be to look different... to these "earth in earth" colors.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

not even fking close. it was built upon Everquests already established Core simply because of Everquest successfully being run on the PS2 at the time. the actual game couldn't have been farther from everquest.

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well then you have no idea at all. the FFXI team played Everquest back then... these boss instances etc. are everquest gameplay mechanics actually. the whole grind as well.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

I don't swivel to turn on the spot.

Tonkra, please stop posting, every time you do you sound dumber.

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well not dumber than you who turns on spot for years "i want to have the same online experience which i had in FFXI".


FFX, FFXII, FFIX... all offer such a great gameplay experience.. and you know what? it did not had 1-3 extra tip tap animations.. But well it was actually Final Fantasy and fun.
Its a good thing that they actually care now about gameplay and not about the look of it.

deal with my opinion and leave it. but you dont have to call it "dumb" when you dont agree with my opinion. thats rude and stupid. i dont have to like what you like. im fighting for my opinion and i dont care about your mainstream opinion.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

how are the "blue dots" a final fantasy feel? it was only used in one FF. i'm not opposed to them but i see them as more of an immersion killer than spinning on the spot when you turn the camera.

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they create their own graphics style.. if the graphics style is to mix up a setting from Middle Ages with steam punky blue neon graphics then its a stemp from Square Enix. it was there in every final fantasy i can imagine for the last years.

and i think its freshy. you dont have to like it. i like it ^^ i think its a comfort thing^

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Originally Posted by Gramul

As someone who has been studying animation and body movement for the past 4 years, I feel I can say wih confidence that taking a small step or two at the end of a jog is the furthest thing from overdone.

It's what we like to call Follow Through, one of the 12 principles of animation, and is used to carry the idea of momentum, giving your subject a more natural appeal which is something that a game with a natural art style could benifit from.

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well that had no stopping animation which took about 1-2 seconds either... how dare me having fun in those offline FF's either, without a stopping animation which is causing to make the gameplay sluggish?

they removed it because its not to complicated to design it they removed it due to fluent gameplay as yoshida mentioned.

people are not open for changes, thats the problem.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

how are the "blue dots" a final fantasy feel? it was only used in one FF. i'm not opposed to them but i see them as more of an immersion killer than spinning on the spot when you turn the camera.

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http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...ordan-nope.gif

Now I've heard everything. I can't wait for the "REMOVE THE TARGETTING ARROW BECAUSE MY IMMERSION IS RUINED!!!" threads. This community is the worst!

The blue line isnt a deal breaker for me - though I dont know why they needed to add the line in the first place lol (Im a bigger fan of the black blur Zelda / Kingdom hearts zone markers (or no marker at all) - cant please everyone though XD). I hope it goes away during screenshots (blue line).

FFIX and FFX had fixed cameras so your point is invalid. Will adding better animations to ARR suddenly turn it into a bad game? If not I have no idea why you're fighting so much for them to make a worse game.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

FFIX and FFX had fixed cameras so your point is invalid. Will adding better animations to ARR suddenly turn it into a bad game? If not I have no idea why you're fighting so much for them to make a worse game.

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Does removing animations suddenly turn it into a bad game? We had "SUPER AWESOME OMG" animations at launch, and the game sucked. It seems that animations don't make a game fun...weird!

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Does removing animations suddenly turn it into a bad game? We had "SUPER AWESOME OMG" animations at launch, and the game sucked. It seems that animations don't make a game fun...weird!

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Bad game? Maybe not.

Worse game? Yes (in that particular aspect). I wonder if its a limitation within the new system they are porting - something about limited animation blendings. I have to feel it is a hard coded issue with the game, as it makes no sense to remove or at least tweak them. But hardcoded issue like that sucks XD, animation blending is really great for continuity of visuals. Still would play though.


I have 2 oranges, someone takes away 1 orange. I have less oranges. I always want more oranges. Follows definition of worse.

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Originally Posted by Ingolf

FFIX and FFX had fixed cameras so your point is invalid. Will adding better animations to ARR suddenly turn it into a bad game? If not I have no idea why you're fighting so much for them to make a worse game.

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totally worse.. ok play 1.0. i play the "worse" 2.0. :) haha ;)

yes because you forget 1.0. is a dull and sluggish mess. Ifrit battle for example.. first of all there is the lag due to server response and distance.. secondly there is the much awful animation lock.. thirdly it takes additional 1-2 seconds (stop animation) in order to continue with your skill actions.

and thats the reason for yoshi to remove those needless animation. you dont have it in offline Final Fantasys either.


did you had more fun in 1.0. or did you have more fun in Offline final fantasys? i say the gameplay in the offliners had been much more fun. but go on calling 2.0. worse because of a tip tap animation. i laugh at you at release, really.


its like the grass topic.. its like the complains about lower character details... calling it a downgrade.. and now we slowly see there is no way to argue about that. the characters look fine.. as the whole environment.. im looking forward to finally FLUENT gameplay.

and a game experience which is actually fun.. and not that passive (because its sluggish) like in 1.0.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Does removing animations suddenly turn it into a bad game? We had "SUPER AWESOME OMG" animations at launch, and the game sucked. It seems that animations don't make a game fun...weird!

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finally you get the point. talking to these FFXIV forum flamers makes no sense at all^
and well they are a minority of people who want to stick to 1.0. gameplay mechanics..

talk to thousands and thousands of people out there who left the game months ago, calling 1.0. a sluggish gameplay mess. which it was and which it still is kind off.

the last points are still in the game, lag, animation lock and 1-2 secs. extra animation.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

well that had no stopping animation which took about 1-2 seconds either... how dare me having fun in those offline FF's either, without a stopping animation which is causing to make the gameplay sluggish?

they removed it because its not to complicated to design it they removed it due to fluent gameplay as yoshida mentioned.

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I said it would dowell for the game. Not that it was required.

I can understand not thinking it's a big deal, but activley going out of your way to denounce smooth animation and transition seems odd. You can have momentum and turning without negativley impacting gameplay. It just takes some extra effort to implement.