SE stop doing the "norm"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ptolemy

i blame the people moaned and cried to make 2.0 come into play

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Do you like the UI, the lag, the market wards, the cut and paste scenery, the constant game crashes? Maybe you like the low population, cuz most people realize what a badly designed game this is and don't play it.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Any chance of FFXIV being the next FFXI with improvements is long gone.

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Thank god.. i want to have a REAL final Fantasy ... which the ff onlines honestly havent been till now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

Do you like the UI, the lag, the market wards, the cut and paste scenery, the constant game crashes?

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All of this didn't need a complete redesign of things that even worked lol. For example the server issues could have been taken care of eventually as they said. Much like instead of just a huge patch, they decided to rebrand the game (2.0) and try to recapture people, that is the main purpose of ARR...not to simply fix issues that could be fixed in normal development, but to basically get new people.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Thank god.. i want to have a REAL final Fantasy ... which the ff onlines honestly havent been till now.

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You never played a FF game then. FFXI was damn near FFIII's successor.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

Quests in this game suck. Every time I get a quest, I have to check my journal over and over again. Maybe if I could put marks on my map like I did in 11, I could tolerate them. But, for now, I am sick and tired of having to check my journal over and over again. And, what's with the map button always moving? Put it at the top where the journal text won't move it.

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While I truly hate what you describe on XIV for quests, I also find amusing that you even mention XI.

I'd rather open my journal than being forced to return to POL Viewer, open an external site (ZAM/Somepage etc.), check where the f*** I have to go next, write notes (or print the page), restart FF XI. Just to notice after that I forgot something, having to log off again, etc.

While still being far behind competitors, SE made a tremendous progress when it comes to giving players information on steps to perform in order to clear a quest. On restriction in place when trying to do a content, etc. XI? Everything was outside the game, and it was either you break the ToS to ALT/TAB, either you have several devices to browse the web, either... you are screwed.

(Yeah we got official windowed mode later on, but that's way later)

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Originally Posted by Rokien

FFXI, that should have been your core model for 2.0 not GW2, RIFT, WOW, what have ya.

...

You can see, most people are tired of how MMOS are being made, and they want them back to how they were(aka FFXI)

...

I'm also not saying be stuck in the past, but add new things, be creative try something new that another game hasen't but keep that whole MMO WORLD feel. To me that's adventure, companionship, not, "go here, go there, go here" That's not any types of fun, that's just a good time killer.

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Tanaka san kept FFxi grounded (due to his experience with offline RPGs)and independent from outside influence for awhile with his version of a "SE MMORPG". I respect that and it follows a FF formula but with FF XIV, it's an apple that fell far from the tree with the goal of appealing to the masses.

I remember starting out with FFxi and doing its quest... I felt the system was too sophisticated for me but with time I got used to it. Everything revolved around the party system which I miss right now in XIV. It's going to evolve in Eorzea and we will have to get used to it because it's player based feedback that will push this fantasy forward.

SE needs big change to the party system in ARR because I'm not paying for a subscription and no progression, I might not stay for long. Even if the game looks pretty, it'll be a pretty memory.

FFxi was tough on players back then, you either suck it up or go home crying. Should XIV be casual friendly, give players incentive to help one another. Too many people complaining about not getting help with stuff. :/

i think for quests directing us location to location if ok cause yeah i pretty much just looked up where to go. maybe having a toggle on off for that would be cool but then still the stories probably would have to hint them and be more work. but the thing i loved of ffxi quests was it wasn't for exp, and tons and tons were fun mini bosses. reality is if they caped them each one could of been considered an epic fun little battle to do with groups and solo. yeah there was lots of fetch and farm and run here and theres but in the end you knew a lot of them would of been fun to do and if doing at right levels they were great.

hopefully they add quests into the main story missions like wings of goddess expansion. it kinda forced you into doing quests along with the missions but you can solo most and then you get to some big battles in them as well with mini bosses. it was a great way to go with side quests.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

Tanaka san kept FFxi grounded (due to his experience with offline RPGs)and independent from outside influence for awhile with his version of a "SE MMORPG". I respect that and it follows a FF formula but with FF XIV, it's an apple that fell far from the tree with the goal of appealing to the masses.

I remember starting out with FFxi and doing its quest... I felt the system was too sophisticated for me but with time I got used to it. Everything revolved around the party system which I miss right now in XIV. It's going to evolve in Eorzea and we will have to get used to it because it's player based feedback that will push this fantasy forward.

SE needs big change to the party system in ARR because I'm not paying for a subscription and no progression, I might not stay for long. Even if the game looks pretty, it'll be a pretty memory.

FFxi was tough on players back then, you either suck it up or go home crying. Should XIV be casual friendly, give players incentive to help one another. Too many people complaining about not getting help with stuff. :/

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Ok good luck with getting help with anything in 2.0 as the community will say go que up like they do in WoW. Now lets not forget the level capped dungeons cause players will have a hard time once level cap increases to get a level 60 player to go do a level 50 capped dungeon.

another doom and gloom thread...?

look I'm pretty sure my grandparents had a wheel and stick toy back in the days, but now that is an out-dated toy, and something I don't want to be seen with, and I doubt I'll have fun with it in this modern day and age.

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

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Originally Posted by Andrien

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

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http://i.minus.com/jXZMUfVTvTd3s.jpg
yes.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

another doom and gloom thread...?

look I'm pretty sure my grandparents had a wheel and stick toy back in the days, but now that is an out-dated toy, and something I don't want to be seen with, or have fun with today.

You understand what I'm trying to say here?

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it has nothing to do with the wheel and stick, it's how long you can play with the toy no matter what the toy is. we don't want a mmo that we toss aside 5mins after we get it out of the package like 99% of the toys and games and even mmo's that come out these days. we get it they probably want to push out a new mmo much faster these days from the time there last one came out. but that don't make it a better product, it proves it to be a lesser quality.

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Originally Posted by Antipika

While I truly hate what you describe on XIV for quests, I also find amusing that you even mention XI.

I'd rather open my journal than being forced to return to POL Viewer, open an external site (ZAM/Somepage etc.), check where the f*** I have to go next, write notes (or print the page), restart FF XI. Just to notice after that I forgot something, having to log off again, etc.

While still being far behind competitors, SE made a tremendous progress when it comes to giving players information on steps to perform in order to clear a quest. On restriction in place when trying to do a content, etc. XI? Everything was outside the game, and it was either you break the ToS to ALT/TAB, either you have several devices to browse the web, either... you are screwed.

(Yeah we got official windowed mode later on, but that's way later)

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Are you trying to tell me you never search the internet for game related info (ie. quests, mobs, equipment etc) ?

I mentioned 11, because of the map marker feature. Also, FF11 didn't have a bunch of maze zones, or obstacles on the road every 20 feet, making navigating to your destination a pain in the butt.

I use a dual monitor setup, and find google to be a lot more useful than the journal.

Half the time I spend questing in this game, is spent watching cutscenes. The other half is travel time lol

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Originally Posted by Elexia

All of this didn't need a complete redesign of things that even worked lol. For example the server issues could have been taken care of eventually as they said. Much like instead of just a huge patch, they decided to rebrand the game (2.0) and try to recapture people, that is the main purpose of ARR...not to simply fix issues that could be fixed in normal development, but to basically get new people.



You never played a FF game then. FFXI was damn near FFIII's successor.

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How long has this game been out? I think they've had more than enough time to fix the "glaring" issues. If they had scrapped their silly UI (and server authentication crap), added an AH, and a /JUMP command (lol) within 3 months of release, they wouldn't have lost all the customers they did.

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Originally Posted by Jaimie

How long has this game been out? I think they've had more than enough time to fix the "glaring" issues. If they had scrapped their silly UI (and server authentication crap), added an AH, and a /JUMP command (lol) within 3 months of release, they wouldn't have lost all the customers they did.

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They didn't even bother to try to fix it. They thew out anything having to do with 1.0 and jumped on the redesign as soon as Tanaka was gone.

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Originally Posted by strallaalaa

it has nothing to do with the wheel and stick, it's how long you can play with the toy no matter what the toy is. we don't want a mmo that we toss aside 5mins after we get it out of the package like 99% of the toys and games and even mmo's that come out these days. we get it they probably want to push out a new mmo much faster these days from the time there last one came out. but that don't make it a better product, it proves it to be a lesser quality.

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you probably still play with the wheel and stick..

I understand you're assuming FFXIV will turn out like that if they borrow what works in other mmorpgs, and improve on it. I don't have much to say on that matter, but for me I'll reserve my criticism until the flood hits.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Yet people do that in XIV lol.

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And nothing disappoints me more

Hopefully things pick up in the next version of the game.

Sorry for the late reply. I don't spend as much time on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

you probably still play with the wheel and stick..

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And why is that bad?
If it's fun, good. The only issue is if you get jealous with what's new. Thinking it's somehow a more valid fun.

Hell. I have fun watching movies from 100 years ago. Do the innovations made in the last century make my entertainment less valid? Is The Artist a terrible film because it's in black and white in an age of color? Is Casablanca made worse from its thousands of parodies? Is it bad that I have fun playing early NES games that don't have a simple built in mapping system?
Because if it is, I'm a terrible person.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

That's because the majority of people don't think

Slower leveling implies even pacing and content; A more natural and memorable sense of progression with numerous milestones that keeps players interested. End game does not have to, nor should be the point where the game begins. If that were the case, why bother with leveling at all? When people saw that question, the majority thought "Slower leveling? More grind before I get to the content? That sucks!", when that 'grind' should be where a large majority of the content is located.

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Yeah, that's it. 54.6% of the people polled misinterpreted their own opinion.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Yeah, that's it. 54.6% of the people polled misinterpreted their own opinion.

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I know I did.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Yeah, that's it. 54.6% of the people polled misinterpreted their own opinion.

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as people have stated over and over and over again, those polls are VERY VERY misleading and add two or three different elements in a question that will take away a few other things.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Yeah, that's it. 54.6% of the people polled misinterpreted their own opinion.

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Everytime there's a poll there's like 3-4 people that come and say the polls don't matter. /shrugs *throws in the white flag* lol

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Yeah, that's it. 54.6% of the people polled misinterpreted their own opinion.

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The questions were far from crystal clear as to their intent. I've been a party to regreting my poll choices because I thought it meant something other than.

MOAR INSTANCED DUNGEONS!

Also, just might have found my next game......

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10...box-style-mmo/

Eh, I'm really just looking forward to 2.0 if it flops in my eyes I will probably be done with MMOs for a long while. Until I see something that suits my gaming tastes and leans away from the disposable conventions I see evolving today.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

And why is that bad?
If it's fun, good. The only issue is if you get jealous with what's new. Thinking it's somehow a more valid fun.

Hell. I have fun watching movies from 100 years ago. Do the innovations made in the last century make my entertainment less valid? Is The Artist a terrible film because it's in black and white in an age of color? Is Casablanca made worse from its thousands of parodies? Is it bad that I have fun playing early NES games that don't have a simple built in mapping system?
Because if it is, I'm a terrible person.

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Okay first things first, you have a lot of questions. Secondly I was not replaying to you. Thirdly that list of classic entertainments is not relevant because each one was limited to the technology of the time. I hope you're following with me here. Overtime I'm sure you've noticed that technology improves, new ideas come to life, and so did the entertainment industry. Hopefully it didn't improve to fast for you.

Lastly, I never said wheel and stick toy was bad. All I said was it was out-dated, and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Okay first things first, you have a lot of questions. Secondly I was not replaying to you. (As if that would stop me.) Thirdly that list of classic entertainments is not relevant because each one was limited to the technology of the time. I hope you're following with me here. Overtime I'm sure you've noticed that technology improves, new ideas come to life, and so did the entertainment industry. Hopefully it didn't improve to fast for you.

Lastly, I never said wheel and stick toy was bad. All I said was it was out-dated, and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

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The Artist was made in 2011. Black and white. Silent film.

You guys get so caught up in the new, making excuses to how they're better when most of the time it's just a new piece of technology or a passing trend that has no actual true baring on quality. Things like higher fidelity or clearer picture? Yeah. That's a pretty blatant improvement. Things like matching a game structure to be like every other in its 'genre' at the time. That's more of a grey area. Plenty of pros and cons. No clear forward path. Just mindlessly following market trends in hopes that all the references will keep people interested in something that has had to be pulled to the mediocre stock to be considered an improvement.

If you guys didn't click on the link I just linked

"I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better than what had come before it. It was slightly better.

What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox-style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you've never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn't want more kill 10 rats quests. We didn't want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they're delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game."

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Originally Posted by Andrien

and just like all out-dated things they get replaced with something better.

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Don't know where to start with this statement. Let's just suffice to say that not everthing becomes "Outdated" just because it's old. Your assuming that just because older MMO's such as XI, Ultima Online, Everquest are old that newer things are "Better"

Perhaps you enjoy newer MMO's, but it's arguable wether they are "Better" or not. No recent MMO has proven that it can last as long as the older legacy games. WoW itself is getting on years and could be considered a old outdated game, yet everyone and their dog feels that replicating it is the way to go.

the "Norm" of MMO's is far from being new, it's fairly old it's just that MMO's in general have failed to evolve beyond it these days making it seem like it's something new when it's not. Once a new MMO manages to break the mold and hold a large subscriber base for a few years then you can say something new has come to market.

As it stands most recent MMOs can't get past wanting to be WoW, not like we can blame them for trying to take the easy way out but we have seen it fail time and time again. WoW was lightning in a bottle it's not something we will see replicated, hell I doubt Blizzard themselves will be able to top it, they haven't been able to do it for the last few years in expansions I doubt a new MMO (Titan) will change that.

New does not always mean better, Old does not always mean obsolete.

Hardware? Sure you can argue that, but something subjective like a gaming experience? Hell look at how well "Retro" style games sell, or how well a re-release of a older game (With no improvments mind you) can still sell these days.

Fun is subjective, and it has no shelf date.

Square, Please take a moment to read over this:

"As we reported last night, Sony Online Entertainment dropped a few hints regarding the future of the EverQuest franchise at its annual SOE Live convention in Las Vegas. Though CEO John Smedley's keynote address focused mainly on the firm's non-EQ portfolio, the EQNext tidbit was a doozy.

I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better than what had come before it. It was slightly better.

What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox-style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you've never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn't want more kill 10 rats quests. We didn't want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they're delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game.

Smedley went on to mention that veteran EQ devs Dave Georgeson and Terry Michaels are spearheading the project, and he promised that it would be playable at next year's SOE Live event."

and that's what the players don't want anymore as well, yet they are easily and swiftly adding those things!

SE, that is.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Don't know where to start with this statement. Let's just suffice to say that not everthing becomes "Outdated" just because it's old. Your assuming that just because older MMO's such as XI, Ultima Online, Everquest are old that newer things are "Better"

Perhaps you enjoy newer MMO's, but it's arguable wether they are "Better" or not. No recent MMO has proven that it can last as long as the older legacy games. WoW itself is getting on years and could be considered a old outdated game, yet everyone and their dog feels that replicating it is the way to go.

the "Norm" of MMO's is far from being new, it's fairly old it's just that MMO's in general have failed to evolve beyond it these days making it seem like it's something new when it's not. Once a new MMO manages to break the mold and hold a large subscriber base for a few years then you can say something new has come to market.

As it stands most recent MMOs can't get past wanting to be WoW, not like we can blame them for trying to take the easy way out but we have seen it fail time and time again. WoW was lightning in a bottle it's not something we will see replicated, hell I doubt Blizzard themselves will be able to top it, they haven't been able to do it for the last few years in expansions I doubt a new MMO (Titan) will change that.

New does not always mean better, Old does not always mean obsolete.

Hardware? Sure you can argue that, but something subjective like a gaming experience? Hell look at how well "Retro" style games sell, or how well a re-release of a older game (With no improvments mind you) can still sell these days.

Fun is subjective, and it has no shelf date.

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Very well said jyxn, that's why I don't get all these FFXI players are saying "BLAH FFXI WAS GOOD FOR ITS TIME" Yet it has more subscribers than half the mmos out there.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Very well said jyxn, that's why I don't get all these FFXI players are saying "BLAH FFXI WAS GOOD FOR ITS TIME" Yet it has more subscribers than half the mmos out there.

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Yet WoW is Totally opposite of FFXI and they hold like 20 times the subs. FFXI is successful and still is. but to me it's just way to tedious "minus abyssea". and it's in our"opinion" for those that say "Good for it's time" Opinions, everyone has one.

Jynx, Gramul.

You both are assuming, and speculating the worst just like rokien, and you're both misinterpreting my words.

I'm sure if you both go back and reread what I wrote you'll see somewhere in there that I essentially said that improvements on old technology makes them better. This is the same thing yoshi-p is doing. (Taking what works from the old, and tweaking them to make it more accessible)

If this spells doom, and gloom for you, then you can always go back to your wheel and stick toys. It really wont effect me in any way.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Jynx, Gramul.

You both are assuming, and speculating the worst just like rokien.

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Ya guess what, so what we are speculating the worst, it's cool, because when the game comes out, either A. i wont be sad or cry about it. B. I eat my words and be like OMGSFODSUFNSDF AWESOME!!!! And get really pumped about the great job they did. So really, It's a win win for me, can't speak for those other two~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Jynx, Gramul.

You both are assuming, and speculating the worst just like rokien, and you're both misinterpreting my words.

I'm sure if you both go back and reread what I wrote you'll see somewhere in there that I essentially said that improvements on old technology makes them better. This is the same thing yoshi-p is doing. (Taking what works from the old, and tweaking them to make it more accessible)

If this spells doom, and gloom for you, then you can always go back to your wheel and stick toys. It really wont effect me in any way.

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The style of gameplay being implemented, has nothing to do with the technology.
That's what we're concerned about. They had the oppertunity to make a solid game built on what XI provided, but they squandered it. They ripped that thing out before it was fully formed and in their folly, worked on creating something that does nothing to innovate or add anything. Not so much a big deal when your only competition was one or two games, but in an age with a well established monolith and hundreds of failed copy cats with minor tweaks and a fresh coat of paint, why on earth would this work?

Like I said, Square is banking on the references combined with the inoffensive nature of "Standard design" as a means of keeping this game alive.

Like him or not, Tanaka had vision. Tanaka had plans. And all of that was pulled out of the oven well before it was fully baked. So we ended up with a soggy cake with looser frosting. The kinda frosting you find on those waxy cookies in a grocery store bakery. The kind that tastes like it's been there for well over a month in spite of the many preservatives heated efforts to hide the lack of flavor and preparation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rokien

when the game comes out, either A. i wont be sad or cry about it. B. I eat my words and be like OMGSFODSUFNSDF AWESOME!!!! And get really pumped about the great job they did. So really, It's a win win for me.

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I feel kinda the same. I just wish I didn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Ya guess what, so what we are speculating the worst, it's cool, because when the game comes out, either A. i wont be sad or cry about it. B. I eat my words and be like OMGSFODSUFNSDF AWESOME!!!! And get really pumped about the great job they did. So really, It's a win win for me, can't speak for those other two~

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As it is right now I'm not happy about version 1.0. If 2.0 flops then yes there will be a shitstorm brewin, and I'll say you were right.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

As it is right now I'm not happy about version 1.0. If 2.0 flops then yes there will be a shitstorm brewin, and I'll say you were right.

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You don't need to say we where right. I'd find no joy in that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gramul

You don't need to say we where right. I'd find no joy in that.

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Yes, because we want the game to be good, that's why I post, that's why all of us post.

they should do a kickstarter for a ffxi-2 mmo that is like that mmo except new everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gramul

The style of gameplay being implemented, has nothing to do with the technology.
That's what we're concerned about. They had the oppertunity to make a solid game built on what XI provided, but they squandered it. They ripped that thing out before it was fully formed and in their folly, worked on creating something that does nothing to innovate or add anything. Not so much a big deal when your only competition was one or two games, but in an age with a well established monolith and hundreds of failed copy cats with minor tweaks and a fresh coat of paint, why on earth would this work?

Like I said, Square is banking on the references combined with the inoffensive nature of "Standard design" as a means of keeping this game alive.

Like him or not, Tanaka had vision. Tanaka had plans. And all of that was pulled out of the oven well before it was fully baked. So we ended up with a soggy cake with looser frosting. The kinda frosting you find on those waxy cookies in a grocery store bakery. The kind that tastes like it's been there for well over a month in spite of the many preservatives heated efforts to hide the lack of flavor and preparation.

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First of all, they ripped out what was not working and what the majority didn't want, and removed features from 1.0 to be put back later in 2.0. Even before they removed features they asked us in player polls if we're okay with drastic changes.

The copy-pasta landscape is from the very beginning. 100% done and completed.. self explanatory. All this also contributed to bad embarrassing reviews for a final fantasy game.

Tanaka couldn't add any content because there was an overwhelming amount of problems. As a director and producer of a game, you are the boss of the development team, you have to decide whether or not the game is ready for release. He made some mistakes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rokien

If you guys didn't click on the link I just linked

"I have to be honest with you. We have completely blown up the design of EverQuest Next. For the last year and a half we have been working on something we are not ready to show. Why did we blow up the design? The design was evolutionary. It was EverQuest III. It was something that was slightly better than what had come before it. It was slightly better.

What we are building is something that we will be very proud to call EverQuest. It will be the largest sandbox-style MMO ever designed. The same exciting content delivered in a new way. Something you've never seen before. The MMO world has never seen before. We didn't want more kill 10 rats quests. We didn't want more of the same. If you look at the MMOs out there, they're delivering the same content over and over again. So are we. We need to change that. When we released EverQuest, we changed the world. We want to do that again with a different type of game."

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how are they gonna claim it's the largest sandbox mmorpg when it is smaller then eve?