Will you bother to PVP?

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

In order to do that, they'd need to make PVP a primary focus, and not just an side distraction. The current story doesn't lend itself to faction-based pvp or open-world pvp. They'd need those two things to "Do it right", and I don't see that happening.

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They have the 3 grand companies going at each other for pvp <.<

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

Fighting in PvP and PvE is totally different. Just because people know how to jump around and delay your actions doesn't make them more skilled at their job for PvE content, mobs react completely different. And it doesn't take a genius to learn a job in this game, so its pretty easy to spot theses "unskilled" players you speak of.

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Thats the point. alot of people wont enter a pvp event due to the fact that they will get exposed. if anyone fights another player as a cpu mob then they are missing the point of a pvp. its always a what will i do in that position moment. quick thinking and quick timing will prevail

I prefer PVP because its always unpredictable! Every match is different~!
While PVE - doing the same dungeon with mobs acting the same every time over and over and over agaon-- o so boring

Anyway LoL'd at OP saying that if he wanted a PVP he'd play FPS. PVP in RPGs are not just shooting to each other, they are usually in form of mini games-- grabbing flags, protecting base, throwing balls to the basket (ah good ol' days of ballista), gathering stuff for buffs etc etc - it can be rly fun! Oh why u ppl always so negative

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Looks like you described PvE as well in many games ;) Horribly balanced (class/specs) and gear dependent :p (gear tier)
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As for PvP, it all depend of its implementation. I was a hardcore DAoC player, it's gonna be hard to please me with PvP, but Yoshida was also a DAoC player so... maybe... there is hope to have a proper PvP system.

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True but it's one thing to fight against a CPU and another against a player. It all depends on balancing really. Will the PvP be balanced around meaningful 1v1 or team based gameplay? Without knowing that, we won't really know how well PvP will pan out.

I hope they have open world full loot pk.

no thank you.

Its always the very last thing I would do. I mean, Ive had fun in places like AV and other WoW battlegrounds, but its always something I do when Ive finished everything else.

I hope we have several types of PVP,

PVE-PVP:
Battles that consist of an instanced dungeon where opposing sides must compete against eachother and mobs/npcs to complete an objective.


Open Area PVP:
Contested territory where everyone is flagged for open PVP combat.


Arena:
Battles that are queued in teams of 2, 4, 6 or 8; pitted against other teams of the same number.

Battlegrounds:
PVP objective instances that are queued up for, with map objectives such as capture a point, retrieve flags, etc


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I also hope they add a PVP stat separate from PVE gear, that increases damage done against other players and healing done to players. This way we can have PVP gear sets and not have to use the same PVE armor in PVP. I also want to have the ability to queue up for a PVP match from anywhere in the world, not all PVP has to be this way, but if I am sitting in Ul'dah, or out in the field farming, I would like to be able to queue up for PVP matches.

All i know is ballista was the greatest thing since sliced bread back in 2005. Its all I did for almost a year straight, i met many friends(and enemies, in a good way). I remember when you started a match by catching invisible on a black mage and he would target a group and wipe their shadows by any means. so much dynamic strategy was involved. bring back a piece of that and i will be pleased:cool:

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

All i know is ballista was the greatest thing since sliced bread back in 2005. Its all I did for almost a year straight, i met many friends(and enemies, in a good way). I remember when you started a match by catching invisible on a black mage and he would target a group and wipe their shadows by any means. so much dynamic strategy was involved. bring back a piece of that and i will be pleased:cool:

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While I agree I enjoyed Ballista a ton! Yoshi-P brings up a tremendous point when he says feedback from many of the FFXIV players has to be taken with a grain of salt because for the most part the only MMO's they have played are FFXI and FFXIV.

Ballista when compared to any other MMO with actual PVP content, is terrible. It is such a strange game with not much PVP skill involved.

We need PVP content that takes actual skill, and that is fast paced and requires strategy. Ballista did not deliver on those levels.

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Originally Posted by TomCarroll

In order to do that, they'd need to make PVP a primary focus, and not just an side distraction. The current story doesn't lend itself to faction-based pvp or open-world pvp. They'd need those two things to "Do it right", and I don't see that happening.

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They would not need to do anything like that. It doesn't have to have anything to do with opposing factions or story to develop fun gameplay. They need only come up with a device of some sort that is entertaining. Despite that, GCs set a perfect platform for competition under the guise of "Combat Training". I'm not talking about open world PvP I'm talking about arena style pvp which requires little else than class balancing. Diorama was fun, balista not so much. And in DAG people never went for rooks it was just straight PvP.

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Originally Posted by Manticore

I hope we have several types of PVP,

PVE-PVP:
Battles that consist of an instanced dungeon where opposing sides must compete against eachother and mobs/npcs to complete an objective.


Open Area PVP:
Contested territory where everyone is flagged for open PVP combat.


Arena:
Battles that are queued in teams of 2, 4, 6 or 8; pitted against other teams of the same number.

Battlegrounds:
PVP objective instances that are queued up for, with map objectives such as capture a point, retrieve flags, etc


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I also hope they add a PVP stat separate from PVE gear, that increases damage done against other players and healing done to players. This way we can have PVP gear sets and not have to use the same PVE armor in PVP. I also want to have the ability to queue up for a PVP match from anywhere in the world, not all PVP has to be this way, but if I am sitting in Ul'dah, or out in the field farming, I would like to be able to queue up for PVP matches.

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There definitely isn't going to be open area PvP. There could possibly be something like ballista which takes place in normal areas but does not interfere with people's ability to PvE.

hell yeah ill pvp, as long as we dont get wow's super multiplied BS and the game stays like it is stat wise should be fine for fun.

Why do you say that? The Coliseum for instance would be perfect for free for all PVP combat.

PvP was never worthwhile, and it probably never will be.

Ballista is a perfect example of this.

PVP sounds so cool...I hope they give us PVP related gear..like fast cast and such.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

PvP was never worthwhile, and it probably never will be.

Ballista is a perfect example of this.

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PVP in Final Fantasy XI, which is exactly why Yoshi-P is trying to create something similar to other MMO's as he is an avid PVP'er and MMO player.

No, I've never had any interest in MMO PvP. Typically, MMOs are developed with latency issues and persistent worlds in mind, taking liberties to accommodate each in gameplay and structure, and I've found that it has never translated well to a PvP setup (Although to be fair, my experience is limited to four titles). Also, as a personal preference, I prefer my competitive games to be fast paced and arcady (I love me some Puyo Pop and Twinkle Star Sprites), and RPGs simply don't capture that feeling

It's great for those who are interested, however, as has been previously stated, PvP needs to be balanced as a separate entity from PvE. A lot of MMOs/Online RPGs these days seem to come with a heavy focus on PvP, and XIV is a refreshing PvE experience in the lot. If its structure and balance suffer due to PvP, I'd lose any interest I have in the game.

I do it if its good PvP and not like what they had in FFXI which nobody really did.

I'll prolly try it out once, but I usually suck against other players, so I likely wont bother.

I'm more of a strategist than I am quick-handed.

It depends, I'll try it out a few times just for the sake. But I'm not going to dedicate very much energy to it.

I just don't expect it to be very balanced at all.

In my opinion, pvp is better when you have complete control over your character.

Such as rolling out of the way of a spell or sword. Dark Souls for instance, but without the lag of back attacks.

This game isn't gonna have that it's gonna be gear dependant, and just cause you built your character to pvp, doesn't mean you'll be good at PvE, which I feel is more important.

My tl;dr version of why I disagree with pvp in XIV:

-Less than half of the players want it so it's a waste of time to work on it when they could have been adding something more important, like new jobs or endgame content.

-In order to make pvp meaningful they will probably infringe on PVE content.

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Originally Posted by TTred

I'm interested to see how they implement PvP. However, I really want to see something with a Final Fantasy setting to it. Not just an arena, but something unique. How Blitzball felt when you first played it is what I'm getting at.

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Really depends on how utility and such is spread about. Yoshida's team can't cop out the way Blizzard did and say "we don't feel giving tanks a place in PvP shoud be our priority", so I expect them to be creative in implementation to ensure each job is useful. That being said, knowing the fact that Yoshi-P played Dark Age of Camelot, which introduced the term Realm vs Realm, it'll be interesting to see how that influences the flow of PvP in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

-In order to make pvp meaningful they will probably infringe on PVE content.

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Here's the one snag in your claim: they can make different rulesets for effects for PvE and PvP. Not everyone is dumb like Blizzard that refuses to apply differing rulesets out of sheer lazyness.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

My tl;dr version of why I disagree with pvp in XIV:

-Less than half of the players want it so it's a waste of time to work on it when they could have been adding something more important, like new jobs or endgame content.

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[citation needed]

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-In order to make pvp meaningful they will probably infringe on PVE content.

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This is probably one of the rare occasions where I will say something positive about Guild Wars and tell you that you are wrong. They can make abilities exclusive to PvP, they can make plenty of adjustments that only effect PvP instead of PvE, it's the developer's choice. I had no problem with what was done in WoW, but they chose not to adjust PvP separately from PvE.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Such as rolling out of the way of a spell or sword. Dark Souls for instance, but without the lag of back attacks.

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I'd like to point out that Dark Souls is probably one of the worst examples of PvP you can name. So is League of Legends. While I know you were just talking about basic mechanics, Dark Souls is still a terrible example just because of the sheer amount of balancing issues, and the lack of moderation when it comes to using cheats.

I don't mean to be blunt, but what I really see here is a lot of paranoid people. Without trying the content first I noticed some already fear and cast judgment upon it as unbalanced, and a waste of time objective in-spite of what was said in the interview. It is boarder line disgusting how some of you guys are degrading it. The devs have been working and studying on this for over a year, and its not forced upon you because you have the choice not to participate.

There is a fair share of people interested, and a fair share that wants to try it out because they're not sure yet. With that said its not to hard to discuss about how to make pvp work for everybody, including for those that don't want to participate. I think there is still something they can do to contribute even if they don't want to go into frontline.

Personally for me an MMO without PvP is really boring. Although Ballista was not perfect, it was one of the leading activities that made me log in after I'm done with a day full of classes. Its a fun sport trying to score points, but not many wanted to play because the rewards was lack luster, and it suffered a lack of support from the dev team. I have no doubt the devs will get it right this time.

I would like to try out pvp. I have no illusions that it'll be perfect, but I want to keep the scene going, and not have it die out like in 11. That's probably why there wasn't a second ballista royale. Hopefully Yoshi P throws some thing more than simply beating the opponent, like winning the crowd for instance if its in the Colosseum.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

My tl;dr version of why I disagree with pvp in XIV:

-Less than half of the players want it so it's a waste of time to work on it when they could have been adding something more important, like new jobs or endgame content.

-In order to make pvp meaningful they will probably infringe on PVE content.

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Two PvP venues, Coliseum and Frontlines, to be released after version 2.0. Unique zones to be created so as not to affect non-participating players. Release of PvP-specific abilities, gear, and ranking.
Support for multi-party alliances for large-scale content to be released together with the above.

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Taken from PDF's this will not hurt pve content at all.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

-Less than half of the players want it so it's a waste of time to work on it when they could have been adding something more important, like new jobs or endgame content.

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But there is coming new classes/jobs and new endgame content.

I hope frontier as a big scale PvP get some tactic mechanics. Like small corridors where one group can build up a def-line or an ambush and guards you need to kill and barricades you need to break.
And there need a reward good enough for longlife motivation. In Ragnarok the reward was acess to a dungeon with good exp for every guild with a castle in possession.

I'll do PvP when I beat all the PvE so it can tide me over until they release new PvE content. Maybe I'll do it sometimes when I'm bored or curious of how it is, but in no way will I focus on it until I'm done with all the dungeons.

It'll be something to do I guess... Have an hour between college classes, enter the game via laptop and...

Get my butt kicked for 45 minutes. Woo!

Yes, I'm going to PVP; and yes, I'm going to destroy you.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

This is probably one of the rare occasions where I will say something positive about Guild Wars and tell you that you are wrong. They can make abilities exclusive to PvP, they can make plenty of adjustments that only effect PvP instead of PvE, it's the developer's choice. I had no problem with what was done in WoW, but they chose not to adjust PvP separately from PvE.

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For example, in 2.0 they've changed the way TP works. TP will be more like MP now. You will start off with 3000 so you can start spamming right from the start of a fight. According to Yoshida in the 25th anniversary special talk show event, this was done to accommodate PVP. What worries me is if they are willing to make major changes to the system to accommodate PVP like they did with TP, what else will they come up with? I think they're are treading on dangerous territory.

While I'll agree that WoW is one of the better examples of PVP in an MMO, even so, in WoW they made adjustments to skills many 100's of times over for PVP purposes, and this also (quite often negatively) effected PVE. In my personal opinion PVP and PVE don't mix well and are better suited for different games entirely, but that's just my opinion based on my experiences. I realize not everyone will agree, and their is no sense in arguing over it.

Eventually yes, though I always play FF14 for the PVE aspect.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

For example, in 2.0 they've changed the way TP works. TP will be more like MP now. You will start off with 3000 so you can start spamming right from the start of a fight. According to Yoshida in the 25th anniversary special talk show event, this was done to accommodate PVP. What worries me is if they are willing to make major changes to the system to accommodate PVP like they did with TP, what else will they come up with? I think they're are treading on dangerous territory.

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It is 1000, not 3000
And the TP change is to speed up the combat, not because of PvP only. Instead of wait until you have enough TP you can start the fight with a WS.
The only change he said was more because of PvP is the combo position change.

Yes, i will PVP in group PvP.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

For example, in 2.0 they've changed the way TP works. TP will be more like MP now. You will start off with 3000 so you can start spamming right from the start of a fight. According to Yoshida in the 25th anniversary special talk show event, this was done to accommodate PVP. What worries me is if they are willing to make major changes to the system to accommodate PVP like they did with TP, what else will they come up with? I think they're are treading on dangerous territory.

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No. PvP is not the only reason because mages can start of right from the bat with a combo with devastating damage in PVE. This is simply leveling the playing field. You haven't thought this through.

The community will find a way to ruin PvP, so until then yes, i'll try it, but i won't enjoy it as much as i did with XIs simple/objective based PvP.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

No. PvP is not the only reason because mages can start of right from the bat with a combo with devastating damage in PVE. This is simply leveling the playing field. You haven't thought this through.

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No. I'm just going by exactly what they said word for word:

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Handling TP is going to change. In the current version the player had to fight to generate TP, but it changed to be similar to MP where you start the battle with full TP. The main reason to make it that way was due to PvP.

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I guess you're the one who didn't think your comment through after all :(

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Originally Posted by Felis

It is 1000, not 3000
And the TP change is to speed up the combat, not because of PvP only. Instead of wait until you have enough TP you can start the fight with a WS.
The only change he said was more because of PvP is the combo position change.

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I guess it could make sense doing 1000 instead of 3000, but I haven't seen evidence supporting your claim. Again I'm just going exactly by what they said word for word:

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Handling TP is going to change. In the current version the player had to fight to generate TP, but it changed to be similar to MP where you start the battle with full TP.The main reason to make it that way was due to PvP.

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To me full tp means 3000 not 1000, so that's my reason for assuming that. I'd be more than happy to acknowledge your claim if you can provide evidence though.

Source of quotes: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...asy-25th-event

Look at the gameplay video. It's 1000 TP max.

http://jpgames.de/wp-content/uploads...-reborn-01.jpg