Playing an expansion as current content has been a lacklustre MMO experience

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

FFXIV community is the biggest echo chamber of posivity ive ever seen in any game. Sure people don't go around and directly say the game has no flaw but they do just like you just did. ''It not the game that wrong, it an you issues'' ''If you're not happy don't sub''. These free out of jail card are used a lot and even if I pointed tons of issues with the contents, people jump to these excuses rather and just accepting there an issues or you know, point a counter-argument that ain't just ''Well I disagree cause I don't believe it the case''

And that attitude just apply everywhere in the game. Complain about a plot-hole in the story? You bet it not bad writting, they will tell you that it just you being of bad spirit or over-analyzing. You enter a dungeon and point out that the level 80 dps only use single target 1-2-3 combo on the mobs pack? Well guess what, it not him playing bad, it you being an min-maxer monster that don't let people play like they want. SE butchered your class gameplay last patch? Clearly it an you issues and your complain are worthless, just get a new main class.

So I will ask again, Where midcore content? Why we got so much dead content that are just dead for the sake of it (Looking at you, FATE and Yellow side quest). Why don't we have more content like POTD or Eureka?

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Have you been ignoring whats to come in the patch cycle post EW? Covering your eyes isnt helping your case here, then again, even your character avatar has their eyes covered so maybe thats saying something.

We're getting a new deep dungeon, more variant dungeons will be added, we're getting more ultimates. I love how you just ignore everything just to debate your point. You cant please everyone, every MMO has this "grass is always greener on the other side".

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Have you been ignoring whats to come in the patch cycle post EW? Covering your eyes isnt helping your case here, then again, even your character avatar has their eyes covered so maybe thats saying something.

We're getting a new deep dungeon, more variant dungeons will be added, we're getting more ultimates. I love how you just ignore everything just to debate your point. You cant please everyone, every MMO has this "grass is always greener on the other side".

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Never said they added nothing, I've just said MOST of the content they add don't last for long. Agains, im waiting for you to awnser this, cause you seem to deliberatly avoid this question. Where is midcore content, why are FATE and Yellow sidequest almost useless, why is there so much content in the game that is dead or give no rewards?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

This is a you problem for sure (very likely to be trolling). No one in their right mind only runs through a dungeon or any piece of content once or twice.

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Im sure you run any ARR dungeon daily for their rewards and not cause there a daily roulette that give xp cause they know no one would return to these dungeons. They even made sure to make those roulette the best xp source by far so you don't do anything else, just cause they know Sprout would be stuck forever in their Q otherwise cause, again, they don't give good reason to go back and do 70% of the dungeon, especially older one

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Im sure you run any ARR dungeon daily for their rewards and not cause there a daily roulette that give xp cause they know no one would return to these dungeons. They even made sure to make those roulette the best xp source by far so you don't do anything else, just cause they know Sprout would be stuck forever in their Q otherwise cause, again, they don't give good reason to go back and do 70% of the dungeon, especially older one

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You make it sound like it's a terrible thing, but it's the best thing an MMO developer has ever done. In past games, if you were coming in this late, you would be forced to powerlevel some other way because the older content wasn't being played AT ALL. Forget doing an older raid. No one wants to do that. Here, all the content remains pretty relevant.

I'm past the point of needing leveling roulettes for anything. I barely even need tomes, but I still login because I still have fun. I can take everything at a chill pace.

Can you even define exactly what it is you think you want without shitting on anything? Saying the rewards are bad doesn't really help anything. Asking for midcore is also a vague notion, which is probably covered somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Never said they added nothing, I've just said MOST of the content they add don't last for long. Agains, im waiting for you to awnser this, cause you seem to deliberatly avoid this question. Where is midcore content, why are FATE and Yellow sidequest almost useless, why is there so much content in the game that is dead or give no rewards?

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Grass is always greener once again my friend. If you look at the other big MMO forums, people like you also keep shouting the same thing. No content in any MMO lasts forever, people min-max the hell out of it and anything that needs to be farmed is immediately gotten within a week or so. Just ask the people who ran Bozja or Eureka back in the day, Ill tell you, that content didnt last them a month.

What youre seeking is a pathetic pipe dream. An addiction. Youlll forever be left wanting more because youve gotten the crave. Its time to free yourself from this illusion.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You make it sound like it's a terrible thing, but it's the best thing an MMO developer has ever done. In past games, if you were coming in this late, you would be forced to powerlevel some other way because the older content wasn't being played AT ALL. Forget doing an older raid. No one wants to do that. Here, all the content remains pretty relevant.

I'm past the point of needing leveling roulettes for anything. I barely even need tomes, but I still login because I still have fun. I can take everything at a chill pace.

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It only a problem cause there some issues with the system. Overall yes, I agree it good that sprout don't have to wait 3 hours just to do normal Ifrit now. On the otherside, It don't really revive the content and people often cheese the roulettes. There a reason all you get 99% of the time in Alliance raid is Crystal towers ones, and why normal raid just end on Alexander 90% of the time. You want to do post ARR aliance raid? hope you'll enjoy the hours long Q for those.

Second issues is that it give so much xp while the rest of the leveling content feel useless. Leveling a side job feel terrible, you do roulette for your daily 2 ish level then what? do the shit tier FATE and Yellow quest? Nah the best thing you can do is run the higgest level dungeon, but if you're dps hope you will enjoy the 25 ish minute it take to go in Q then do the dungeon. Now do that 3 or 4 time for a single level. They refuse to put any alternative to leveling cause otherwise, people would avoid roulette.

Last issue is just the sync system kinda suck. Idk for you, but I kinda hate leveling a class, to let say level 76, just for them to take away all my progression just so I can do a level 15 dungeons. It dosen't help that they refuse to add new skills to classes cause of console player being limited in their hotkeys, so the more the game progress in it live cycle, the bigger the gap get between aquired skill. Some class don't even get their main gameplay mechanic until they reach level 50-70. Like I get it, there a reasons they don't give you you're entire kit, but playing Samurai with no Iajutsu is just wrong and boring.

Also they adding trust system so people can do those with NPC now.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Grass is always greener once again my friend. If you look at the other big MMO forums, people like you also keep shouting the same thing. No content in any MMO lasts forever, people min-max the hell out of it and anything that needs to be farmed is immediately gotten within a week or so. Just ask the people who ran Bozja or Eureka back in the day, Ill tell you, that content didnt last them a month.

What youre seeking is a pathetic pipe dream. An addiction. Youlll forever be left wanting more because youve gotten the crave. Its time to free yourself from this illusion.

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Why you keep saying the grass is greener things, Did I compare it to other MMO in my last post? don't think so. Also you still dodged my question.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

It only a problem cause there some issues with the system. Overall yes, I agree it good that sprout don't have to wait 3 hours just to do normal Ifrit now. On the otherside, It don't really revive the content and people often cheese the roulettes. There a reason all you get 99% of the time in Alliance raid is Crystal towers ones, and why normal raid just end on Alexander 90% of the time. You want to do post ARR aliance raid? hope you'll enjoy the hours long Q for those.

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No one gets CT 99% of the time, but there are people who are absolute babies about it 100% of the time. There are other roulettes available to achieve your goals. The same goes with raid roulette. It's true that it's generally alex or the latest tier, but that's only because it's purely optional content. They've caught onto this with dungeons. Since the tail end of ShB, all the cap dungeons have been linked to MSQ.

I'm mostly ignoring the rest because that's all a you problem. Thank you for answering the question of whether or not you could provide constructive feedback.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Why you keep saying the grass is greener things, Did I compare it to other MMO in my last post? don't think so. Also you still dodged my question.

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Eureka, Bozja, past Relics, Shared Fates (Gemstones), Blue Magic Spell/Masked Carnivale, Hunt Seal farming for glams etc. What more do I need to point out? I tell you, Ive dabbled every single of these systems and more in the (counts in head) 3? yes 3 years of me consistently playing this game daily yet I still have stuff that I like that I have yet to fully complete. The reason why I keep bringing up grass is greener because my statement holds true with people like yourself whom fall into the trap of "seeking more" rather than doing whats already in the game. People say FFXIV lacks midcore content, yet go to any other community and they'll be saying the same thing. The more you become familiar with a game the more trivial things start to become, its what you decide on what to spend your time is where you get the mileage out an MMO.

All these things I mention are still viable and theres communities out there that'll help you complete those along the way if you put in the effort in finding them. To me, midcore content is less about the "difficulty" of the actual content and more about the time it takes to do it. And if you're a casual player that time easily doubles in your retention because of pacing the content. So yes, I think at this point you're dodging the answers people give you because you dont like hearing the truth spelled out to you. Its ok to accept it.

There's also the fact now that FFXIV runs on slowly expanding its content across expansions. This doesnt apply to everything obviously (looking at you squadron) but everything thats ever been done has not been all released within a single patch. Eureka? Bozja, that content took multiple patches to fully flesh out. Its easy to say that previous content looks a lot more engaging and meaty than what we currently have because its all been completed. Currently we're experiencing the start of new content with IS and Variant Dungeons, and I dont know where people get the idea that the team will no longer make any more exploratory zones in the game. This community certainly loves to assume things doesnt it.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Why you keep saying the grass is greener things, Did I compare it to other MMO in my last post? don't think so. Also you still dodged my question.

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If you're not comparing FF14 to another MMO ... then what is the basic of your complain? That if it's not my way then it's the highway?

I'm still patiently waiting for someone to cite me an MMO that has more content or with content that last longer than FF14.

If anything, the roulette system is one of the very few among MMO that manage to keep a good chunk of its content relevant. Most other MMO unless you roll an alt, you probably wouldn't see the lvling content ever again in your entire life.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

If you're not comparing FF14 to another MMO ... then what is the basic of your complain? That if it's not my way then it's the highway?

I'm still patiently waiting for someone to cite me an MMO that has more content or with content that last longer than FF14.

If anything, the roulette system is one of the very few among MMO that manage to keep a good chunk of its content relevant. Most other MMO unless you roll an alt, you probably wouldn't see the lvling content ever again in your entire life.

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I neglected to bring up roulettes but compared to other MMOs having very minimal roulette content for doing old content, FFXIV has it beat. I sometimes spend a day just not caring and doing roulettes on a character and calling it a day when I feel like it.

Now I wish they added a Rival Wings and CC roulette but maybe some day

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I neglected to bring up roulettes but compared to other MMOs having very minimal roulette content for doing old content, FFXIV has it beat. I sometimes spend a day just not caring and doing roulettes on a character and calling it a day when I feel like it.

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In a way I think FF14 fell victim to its own accommodation

- Fate: granted it's not very popular any more. But that's because the game now has so many alternative way to level up. Fate train was popular back in 2.0 and 3.0. That was my primary mean to get my first 2 char to lvl50 on multiple class. And while I can some selective fond memories of those day, overall I don't miss the day I have to travel up and down of Aleport, Coasta de Sol, or Cerebrum factory zone going from Fate to Fate for hours.

- Tome cap: is there any other games that let you cap the most current token for the highest ilvl gears without having to even do max level content at all? And do that in 1 day even. 2 Hunt trains, one front line, one set of tribal daily and you're done for the week. In most other games you would have at least doing something equivalent of Expert Roullete for a few days. I mean, you can do it here, but that's a choice.

What people view as longevity or obsolete content in FF14 is simply a problem the game offer a lot of options. And when that happens, you can't avoid the issue with different type of content will cannibalize one others to certain degree. If I choose to do my stuff in the open world, you have one less person queue for dungeon and roulette. If I decide to do my thing in instance, you have one less person to group up with in the open world. And FF14 just happens to have a lot of options.

For old timers like me, that's great, and I think it explains why people like me stay around for a long time. FF14 does not force a set routine on me, what I decide to do each days totally depend on my mood:

- I can just pop in PvPs if I'm in the mood of murdering fellow players.
- I can pop a couple roullete if I just don't have a lot of time to play that day.
- I can join a hunt train if I feel extra lazy.


Either way, be it for EXP or for tome/matateria ...etc... they all viable. What other perceive as "longevity" or "activity" in other MMO is because they have a far limited set of option. So you'll have the majority players being funnel into a few path, so of course those paths will appear to be more active comparing to each of the options in FF14.


Also, many of state of FF14 is the direct result of what the community want.

Remember 2.0 and 3.0 relic Fate train? I don't think I've ran into anyone who liked them. The whole reason we got Eureka in 4.0 because the outcry we want relic to be original contents, stop forcing us to do old content crap for it. Also when they tried to force people to run the old Alliance Raid to unlock the 5.0 relics, it wasn't very well received. The choice poison was between old Fate and old Dungeon, I pick the former because, again ... **** Ivalice.

So it's a balancing act, just simply attach a "reward" behind a content people hate to do ain't gonna guarantee a positive outcome.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Remember 2.0 and 3.0 relic Fate train? I don't think I've ran into anyone who liked them. The whole reason we got Eureka in 4.0 because the outcry we want relic to be original contents, stop forcing us to do old content crap for it. Also when they tried to force people to run the old Alliance Raid to unlock the 5.0 relics, it wasn't very well received. The choice poison was between old Fate and old Dungeon, I pick the former because, again ... **** Ivalice.

So it's a balancing act, just simply attach a "reward" behind a content people hate to do ain't gonna guarantee a positive outcome.

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So basically what this all amounts to is a good ol' fashion of "you think you do, but you dont". From my experience when I did the ShB relics and Bozja when they were still current content, me and a number group of people kinda grew sick of the content design and wished for something more simpler. While Shb relic grinds werent that bad, I can remember saying that I wished for the next expansion relic chain to be a bit more like the HW chain and lo and behold looks like I wasnt the only one the devs listened when they announced EW relic chain being more quest relative.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So basically what this all amounts to is a good ol' fashion of "you think you do, but you dont". From my experience when I did the ShB relics and Bozja when they were still current content, me and a number group of people kinda grew sick of the content design and wished for something more simpler. While Shb relic grinds werent that bad, I can remember saying that I wished for the next expansion relic chain to be a bit more like the HW chain and lo and behold looks like I wasnt the only one the devs listened when they announced EW relic chain being more quest relative.

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You're damn if you do, damn if you don't. In a weekend only class, students wish it's more paced out so they don't have to sit through a 6 hours class. When the same class is spread out 3 days a week, students antagonize the fact they have to come to class for 3 days a week, and would prefer it can be done in just one.

You make it entirely about old content, people hate it.
You make it original unique content, you face the risk of it becomes obsolete in the future.

That's why some are speculating that EW's relic will be chain into the criterion dungeon.

- Original content: check.
- Challenge in group (if you want): check.
- Solo-able for future obsoleted proof: check.

The jury gonna still be out there depend on how it pan out. But this is also why I feel the people -especially new players- who just coming to the game and throwing accusations such as "they don't listen, this game never change its formula", severely lack context. There isn't many other MMO (or is there even one) that willing to listen, adjust, and experiment like FF14 does. I won't say they always hit the mark, but at least they try.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

No one gets CT 99% of the time, but there are people who are absolute babies about it 100% of the time. There are other roulettes available to achieve your goals. The same goes with raid roulette. It's true that it's generally alex or the latest tier, but that's only because it's purely optional content. They've caught onto this with dungeons. Since the tail end of ShB, all the cap dungeons have been linked to MSQ.

I'm mostly ignoring the rest because that's all a you problem. Thank you for answering the question of whether or not you could provide constructive feedback.

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We really gonna act like CT ain't the thing you alway get in roulette now? we're that far into defending the game? It a well know fact people cheese Ilvl cause, like I said, they just run the roulette for XP, so rather than risking to land on some hard raid that gonna take like 40 ish minute cause people will wipe, they prefer going in CT and brainlessly stomp the thing in like 20 min for their xp reward. Not that im complaining about it, In fact I prefer the free fast xp. But it still an issues since roulette first goal is to make it so people new to a content, get to run it whitout waiting hours in Q.

Fun fact, this year I've been suscribed for 5 months now (Not counting this one) and doing all my roulette each day, I've only seen 2 times where it didn't land on CT. My friend have similar numbers, people in the NN got similar numbers when asked. People complain about it on the forum. It clear the Alliance raid roulette don't work like it supossed to.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

We really gonna act like CT ain't the thing you alway get in roulette now? we're that far into defending the game? It a well know fact people cheese Ilvl cause, like I said, they just run the roulette for XP, so rather than risking to land on some hard raid that gonna take like 40 ish minute cause people will wipe, they prefer going in CT and brainlessly stomp the thing in like 20 min for their xp reward. Not that im complaining about it, In fact I prefer the free fast xp. But it still an issues since roulette first goal is to make it so people new to a content, get to run it whitout waiting hours in Q.

Fun fact, this year I've been suscribed for 5 months now (Not counting this one) and doing all my roulette each day, I've only seen 2 times where it didn't land on CT. My friend have similar numbers, people in the NN got similar numbers when asked. People complain about it on the forum. It clear the Alliance raid roulette don't work like it supossed to.

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I seriously dont believe those numbers. Only 2 non-CT raids when you're doing alliance roulette every day for 5 months? BS on that, Ive done the same thing you have and I can tell you I get more than just the supposed measly 2 non-CT raids on my daily roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

If you're not comparing FF14 to another MMO ... then what is the basic of your complain? That if it's not my way then it's the highway?

I'm still patiently waiting for someone to cite me an MMO that has more content or with content that last longer than FF14.

If anything, the roulette system is one of the very few among MMO that manage to keep a good chunk of its content relevant. Most other MMO unless you roll an alt, you probably wouldn't see the lvling content ever again in your entire life.

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Nah, My point is that Atelier-Bagur just avoid my questions and just put words in my mouth so it fit his narrative, then he go one and say ''Okay there's blue mage content'' While I just asked why is there a lack of midcore content.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Nah, My point is that Atelier-Bagur just avoid my questions and just put words in my mouth so it fit his narrative, then he go one and say ''Okay there's blue mage content'' While I just asked why is there a lack of midcore content.

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How am I dodging your questions? I keep giving you answers yet you keep ignoring them. Everything Ive said was to answer what you were ultimately arguing about the supposed "dead content" you see. PoTD and Eureka isnt midcore content. Its content that takes up a little bit more of your time and effort, just like with everything in this game. What Im debating is that no matter what this game (or any MMO really) gives out, none of it is going to be good enough to last forever because people such as yourself is going to rush it and we'll be having this conversation again and again. Its very tiring. What you're debating isnt "where's the midcore content" its "where's the endless retention content".

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

How am I dodging your questions? I keep giving you answers yet you keep ignoring them. Everything Ive said was to answer what you were ultimately arguing about the supposed "dead content" you see. PoTD and Eureka isnt midcore content. Its content that takes up a little bit more of your time and effort, just like with everything in this game. What Im debating is that no matter what this game (or any MMO really) gives out, none of it is going to be good enough to last forever because people such as yourself is going to rush it and we'll be having this conversation again and again. Its very tiring. What you're debating isnt "where's the midcore content" its "where's the endless retention content".

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I consider it dodging when I ask why there no midcore of lots of repetable content and your anwser is ''It a you issues'' or ''Grass just look greener on the otherside'' Raven gave a good explaination with content self canibalising itself. You just dodge my point by assuming things about me, hell here you are stating I rush content now.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

I consider it dodging when I ask why there no midcore of lots of repetable content and your anwser is ''It a you issues'' or ''Grass just look greener on the otherside'' Raven gave a good explaination with content self canibalising itself. You just dodge my point by assuming things about me, hell here you are stating I rush content now.

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Because what you call midcore isnt midcore at all. If we're talking about midcore as in difficulty are the current EX trials.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I seriously dont believe those numbers. Only 2 non-CT raids when you're doing alliance roulette every day for 5 months? BS on that, Ive done the same thing you have and I can tell you I get more than just the supposed measly 2 non-CT raids on my daily roulettes.

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Even if 2 look low, that how much time I got lucky. And as I say other people number rarely go into the 2 digits. Ilvl cheese aside, CT the only mandatory Aliance raid. Considering we almost alway end up on alexander in 8 mans, is it that surprising that we get so much people who either run CT for the first time or cheese in a 24 man raid?

And even if you don't believe those numbers, let not act like it no an oddity when you land on anything that ain't CT.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Even if 2 look low, that how much time I got lucky. And as I say other people number rarely go into the 2 digits. Ilvl cheese aside, CT the only mandatory Aliance raid. Considering we almost alway end up on alexander in 8 mans, is it that surprising that we get so much people who either run CT for the first time or cheese in a 24 man raid?

And even if you don't believe those numbers, let not act like it no an oddity when you land on anything that ain't CT.

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CT is part of the main msq. I wonder why it keeps popping up that often hmmm

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Because what you call midcore isnt midcore at all. If we're talking about midcore as in difficulty are the current EX trials.

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yea and how many we get of those per Xpac? 3 or 4? and that on top of ARR and HW ones being way more casual than midcore if anything, Thordan probably the sole exception out of those.

Low number aside, It only cover trials... Where midcore dungeon? Where Midcore quests? Why not some midcore FATE while we're at it? I would consider solo-Deep dungeon and Eureka/Boznia midcore, but their difficulty is more class dependant than anything else

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

CT is part of the main msq. I wonder why it keeps popping up that often hmmm

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We agree on that. What your points? If anything it a reason why Aliance Raid roulette don't do it job well and that we still have to wait hours sometimes as DPS if we want to do other Alliance raid?

Remember, Im not complaining that CT pop to often, it free brainless xp, the complain here is that the roulette don't work as intended.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

yea and how many we get of those per Xpac? 3 or 4? and that on top of ARR and HW ones being way more casual than midcore if anything, Thordan probably the sole exception out of those.

Low number aside, It only cover trials... Where midcore dungeon? Where Midcore quests? Why not some midcore FATE while we're at it? I would consider solo-Deep dungeon and Eureka/Boznia midcore, but their difficulty is more class dependant than anything else

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Uhh... ARR and HW extremes are more casual? Are we playing the same game? There was a time when Titan Ex was a wall for a lot of people lol. Only reason they seem "casual" is because of gear scaling.

Also we get like seven or so extremes an expac. Earlier on I was kind of agreeing with some of your points (kind of...) but as time went on you've become a bit unhinged... now you just seem like you don't know what you're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Uhh... ARR and HW extremes are more casual? Are we playing the same game? There was a time when Titan Ex was a wall for a lot of people lol. Only reason they seem "casual" is because of gear scaling.

Also we get like seven or so extremes an expac. Earlier on I was kind of agreeing with some of your points (kind of...) but as time went on you've become a bit unhinged... now you just seem like you don't know what you're talking about.

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Well, gear scalling is a thing like you said and barely anyone will run titan with the OG level 50 gear. So he not a wall like he used to be (I remember in ARR lots of people considered him one, if not, the hardest boss, Minus some Bahamut fights).

And yea, your right. I talked out of my ass with the trials ammounts, I just quickly remembered the ones whe see in the MSQ then forgot the other 3-4 batch we get from side quest, that an oopsie on my side.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Well, gear scalling is a thing like you said and barely anyone will run titan with the OG level 50 gear. So he not a wall like he used to be (I remember in ARR lots of people considered him one, if not, the hardest boss, Minus some Bahamut fights).

And yea, your right. I talked out of my ass with the trials ammounts, I just quickly remembered the ones whe see in the MSQ then forgot the other 3-4 batch we get from side quest, that an oopsie on my side.

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Take a step back from the topic and reassess. I don't think anyone is avoiding your points, I think you're tunnel visioning a bit too much to see what's beside you. Step back, breathe, and come back with a fresh mind. It'll do you a world of good.

Because yeah like I said, some of your earlier points I could kinda get on board with (maybe not 100% agree with but still see where you're coming from), but you've gone off the rails since then lol

Even with 7 or so extreme trials an expansion I think we could do with more midcore content, preferably with some emergent gameplay to keep things fresh so we don't get bored farming the same thing a hundred times for a mount.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Uhh... ARR and HW extremes are more casual? Are we playing the same game? There was a time when Titan Ex was a wall for a lot of people lol. Only reason they seem "casual" is because of gear scaling.

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Yeah ... back then helping people to do the first 3 extreme for their relic +1 is a regular activity for any decent FC, 'cause god helps you if you try to do that on your own. Heavenward was even worse tbh, EVERYTHING was overtuned, from trial to savage, even crafting was over complicated. In a way, HW was the expansion that felt like WoW the most. I think it was starting with Stormblood that FF14 decided it gonna branches off and establish its own design identity instead of trying to be another WoW clone.

I remember back in 2.0 (Balmung) when Mordh was full of people gathering around doing content , every map outside the major cities were full of life.

Talking or interacting with people was really easy and you could make tons of friends just in one day instead of ;

-Check my ccard.
- ooc/ ic =).
-accept my terms and conditions before approaching.
-read my bio before sending a /tell
-im struggling with anxiety so I may not reply.
- erp only
- +18 profiles!

Jobs despite being locked between cross skills all of them were unique. Seriously how I miss ARR×HS so much.

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

I remember back in 2.0 (Balmung) when Mordh was full of people gathering around doing content , every map outside the major cities were full of life.

Talking or interacting with people was really easy and you could make tons of friends just in one day instead of ;

-Check my ccard.
- ooc/ ic =).
-accept my terms and conditions before approaching.
-read my bio before sending a /tell
-im struggling with anxiety so I may not reply.
- erp only
- +18 profiles!

Jobs despite being locked between cross skills all of them were unique. Seriously how I miss ARR×HS so much.

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Wow. Imagine people not being all the same socially. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Wow. Imagine people not being all the same socially. :rolleyes:

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So you are in favor of erp in XIV? What a weird stance to take. Though I guess it's not surprising, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

So you are in favor of erp in XIV? What a weird stance to take. Though I guess it's not surprising, lol.

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What's weird is picking that up out of all the possibilities. People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively impact me. ERP is not a new thing. People have been doing it since EQ and probably earlier than that. The only difference now is people can be more clear and upfront about it, with these profile spaces to indicate as much.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

What's weird is picking that up out of all the possibilities. People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively impact me. ERP is not a new thing. People have been doing it since EQ and probably earlier than that. The only difference now is people can be more clear and upfront about it, with these profile spaces to indicate as much.

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I'm just saying it's weird that you are upfront about defending erp, that's all! It's SE's game so they can do whatever they want with it.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I'm just saying it's weird that you are upfront about defending erp, that's all! It's SE's game so they can do whatever they want with it.

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I've been clear about my stance on that shit. Keep it out of the public channels. I'm defending those with social anxieties, likely caused by people like you and that other person.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I've been clear about my stance on that shit. Keep it out of the public channels. I'm defending those with social anxieties, likely caused by people like you and that other person.

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"People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively impact me. ERP is not a new thing."
"The only difference now is people can be more clear and upfront about it"
Pick a lane m8. Also, pretty rude of you to assume I somehow cause social anxieties. Funny enough I can say the same about you and how many can't express how they feel without people like you telling them how wrong they are while throwing out your hot take for them to assimilate.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

"People can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't negatively impact me. ERP is not a new thing."
"The only difference now is people can be more clear and upfront about it"
Pick a lane m8. Also, pretty rude of you to assume I somehow cause social anxieties. Funny enough I can say the same about you and how many can't express how they feel without people like you telling them how wrong they are while throwing out your hot take for them to assimilate.

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Don't talk to me about staying in a lane. You're the one accusing me of being some kind of pervert. This and other bullshit are the legit more toxic behaviours in this community. I was just having a chat with someone the other day and they were telling me how uncomfortable they were made to feel about progressing MSQ and being told how they should like this character and that quest.

My commentary and responses are not in the same category. I'm not telling anyone to assimilate. I'm telling people to think for themselves and look after themselves. Here, it all boils down to doing oneself a favor and knowing when to take breaks. Diadem: I was getting into the differences between zones and posing alternative for activities to do during queue times. If you actually have a legit difference of opinion, I'm happy to discuss it, but you and others just want to spew bullshit and try and paint me as something I'm not. At that point, I've lost all respect and have no care for civility or even continuing the convo. The only counters I ever see to any of my points tend to be something unrelated or a personal attack, but I'm somehow wrong for having a difference of opinion in the first place. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

yea and how many we get of those per Xpac? 3 or 4? and that on top of ARR and HW ones being way more casual than midcore if anything, Thordan probably the sole exception out of those.

Low number aside, It only cover trials... Where midcore dungeon? Where Midcore quests? Why not some midcore FATE while we're at it? I would consider solo-Deep dungeon and Eureka/Boznia midcore, but their difficulty is more class dependant than anything else

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You need to do a better job of defining what you expect when you say "midcore" content.

Correct, the game lacks midcore dungeons or even high end dungeons other than Criterion. I think the hard mode dungeons from ARR and HW might have originally been intended to develop into midcore content but SE ended up deviating from that plan. Why? Only SE knows.

Midcore quests? What would those even be? Give an example. Quests are generally for world building and lore expansion. The dumbest thing a game developer could do is block a casual player out of that type of content.

Midcore FATEs? Let me introduce to you Chi, Daivadipa, Formidable, Archaeotania, etc. Easy enough to zerg when 100 players show up during peak hours. An entirely different ballgame during off peak and only 12 players show up. It can be done if you start earlier in the timer but you need everyone to be on the ball and not constantly dying to mechanics (which I hope is the type of difficulty level you're expecting from midcore).

Any group content tackled solo is going to end up job dependent to some degree so it sounds like you're trying to make up excuses to be dismissive instead of credit it as being midcore at the player's discretion.

As much as you say you're not trying to compare to other MMOs, you're going to need to do that to show how the problem is specific to this game as opposed to being shared within the genre. What are other MMOs doing better for midcore players than FFXIV is? Mythic+ in Wow is an obvious example but what are others?

I think the criterion stuff was an opportunity for midcore content that SE whiffed pretty hard on.

I would love for them to revisit Hard mode dungeons and actually rebalance them and add mechanics to make them more difficult and to add some diversity into gearing other than tomestones and savage. I think they could also use it as a way to test ideas to add some variety into mechanics like I remember a few of the old hard dungeons did. They weren't always good but it added some new things which made it different. I don't even care if they change the aesthetic of the dungeons like they did with the old hard modes, I just want them to try out things like different amounts of packs of mobs between forced walls, or even removing the forced walls. Trying out adding mechanics to mob packs more than move out of orange circle/line. Make use of healer CC on some pulls by having mini bosses in trash packs that need to be CCed. I guess I am saying I just want them to try new things instead of every single dungeon being pull 2 groups of mobs, aoe them down, do it again, kill boss and repeat 2 more times.