Why is the PvP Shadowstalker set unavailable permanently?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

...Humble reminder that 1.X players lost their marbles and respect for Yoshida when they added the White Ravens earrings to an event that took like 15-30min to finish vs when they actually had to fight Nael van Darnus (a hard fight back then).

Those were merely earrings, yet they had veteran value of those who had them. Surely you can understand how putting Top 100 trophies into something as mindnumbingly easy to obtain as Moogle Tomestones is basically insulting to those who were not cheating, wintrading or doing any other underhanded things?

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All that needed to make it better – as they did do for the store-bought version of the earrings – is to make it a separate item and put the word "replica" in front of it so you can tell the hard-earned version from the latecomers.

I think it was reasonable to be at least somewhat disappointed that the actual 1.0 item was re-released, although not to the extent that some people were taking it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

All that needed to make it better – as they did do for the store-bought version of the earrings – is to make it a separate item and put the word "replica" in front of it so you can tell the hard-earned version from the latecomers.

I think it was reasonable to be at least somewhat disappointed that the actual 1.0 item was re-released, although not to the extent that some people were taking it.

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I'd be okay with that. Literally anything to tell apart the original from the replica.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

First of all - don't put words in my or anyone's mouth claiming I/we care about something that I/we clearly don't. That is your own headspace thinking this way.

Since you aren't getting the hint, let me spoonfeed it for you:

I am 100% OK with people having access to the 20 seasonal rewards of various kind to the public
BUT
I am asking for similar difficulty to obtain it to preserve the integrity that is the actual achievement behind those rewards by keeping them as hallmarks of good players.

I am NOT OK with a veteran skilled pvp player and a moogle tomestone / Trophy crystal grinder side by side and you couldn't tell the difference between who actually earned their reward in their way.

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Did I say you care about as few people as possible having the reward? If so please point me to it and I will correct it.

I see you want to make it really simple so I will respond in kind: Lets take one of the feast top 100 mounts. If everyone had it, would you care about the mount at all?

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

First of all - don't put words in my or anyone's mouth claiming I/we care about something that I/we clearly don't. That is your own headspace thinking this way.

Since you aren't getting the hint, let me spoonfeed it for you:

I am 100% OK with people having access to the 20 seasonal rewards of various kind to the public
BUT
I am asking for similar difficulty to obtain it to preserve the integrity that is the actual achievement behind those rewards by keeping them as hallmarks of good players.

I am NOT OK with a veteran skilled pvp player and a moogle tomestone / Trophy crystal grinder side by side and you couldn't tell the difference between who actually earned their reward in their way.

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Were they a veteran pvp player? Or did they buy wins from win traders/cheat to get the items?



You already can't tell if people earned the stuff so who cares. Not that I've seen any of the stuff in the wild since like, 3 weeks after the seasons ended years ago...

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Were they a veteran pvp player? Or did they buy wins from win traders/cheat to get the items?



You already can't tell if people earned the stuff so who cares. Not that I've seen any of the stuff in the wild since like, 3 weeks after the seasons ended years ago...

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I can only speak for myself but when I saw top 100 items on a persons or any high end reward I generally operate as if they earned it until proven otherwise. You know innocent until proven guilty. Just as some say pvpers put too much on the rewards, I think people put too much on cheaters and what not. Sure it happens, but many act that they are the sole reason they did not get top 100.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Did I say you care about as few people as possible having the reward? If so please point me to it and I will correct it.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

According to you logic of "it's my turn on the controller now" you would lose your top 100 mount if someone else got it. That's not the case. You however do not care about the actual reward, you only care about others not having whatever it is. I think that's kinda sad.

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You didn't say that I care about as few people as possible having the reward, you said that I only care about others not having whatever it is. It is close, but not the same. And I am no demon caring that as few as possible get it either.

All I want is the integrity and meaning of the reward to retain as much significance as possible, hence I am okay with redistribution under similar conditions. This means more can have it, but have to fight and earn it vs farming an unrelated currency until you get it.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I see you want to make it really simple so I will respond in kind: Lets take one of the feast top 100 mounts. If everyone had it, would you care about the mount at all?

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I am not 100% sure if I understand your question, so I will have to answer based on how I understand it.

If everyone had access to earning the top 100 mounts from The Feast somehow, it would depend entirely how it is obtainable. Arguably various mounts (or recolours) have been less desirable over Armour sets, therefore I could see even those have looser restrictions than reobtaining Feast Armour. However if they simply got dumped into Trophy Crystal shop or Moogle Tome event, I'd be highly disappointed. I'd know that the Mount meant at least something, so it would bother me if suddenly everyone were to run around with it.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Were they a veteran pvp player? Or did they buy wins from win traders/cheat to get the items?

You already can't tell if people earned the stuff so who cares. Not that I've seen any of the stuff in the wild since like, 3 weeks after the seasons ended years ago...

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Bobby66 said it about as well as it could've been said about treating people having it currently. Discrediting or doubting people who have it just because a few bad apples exist in a pile is disappointingly sad. This isn't comparable to a genuine Top 100 player vs someone who could hypothetically grind it out with Trophy Crystals or worse, Moogle Tomestones, that one would just be stupid if that were to happen.

10 years of PvP, 5 Glam Sets

10 years of PvE, 1500 Glam Sets

"OMG why do PvP players get so good rewards?"

It's pretty irritating that PVP continues to be (nearly) the only source of Glamour gear that isn't just plain clothes anymore, and then it goes away forever. If you want an ensemble your character can wear across Jobs that still looks somewhat battle-ready, you have very little to work with...

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

10 years of PvP, 5 Glam Sets

10 years of PvE, 1500 Glam Sets

"OMG why do PvP players get so good rewards?"

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Technically about 6-7 years as The Feast Ranked kinda started around Heavensward if I am not wrong.

But yeah, sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by Tsiron

It's pretty irritating that PVP continues to be (nearly) the only source of Glamour gear that isn't just plain clothes anymore, and then it goes away forever. If you want an ensemble your character can wear across Jobs that still looks somewhat battle-ready, you have very little to work with...

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Now THAT is a true point. That reminds me that South Korea server happens to have omni-class versions of the Disciple of Hand and Land gear for glamour purposes, some of them looking really nice and sharp like the Armourer or Weaver ones.

I'd totally be up for freeing up how glamour works so we can see more armoured mages, robed tanks, etc. I'd be 10/10 game for it.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Technically about 6-7 years as The Feast Ranked kinda started around Heavensward if I am not wrong.

But yeah, sounds about right.

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Not complaining about pvp having cool items. The complaint is that they were limited in number to be given out. Anyone can go back and do ultimate. Not just the first 100 clears per datacenter.



Same with savage.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Not complaining about pvp having cool items. The complaint is that they were limited in number to be given out. Anyone can go back and do ultimate. Not just the first 100 clears per datacenter.



Same with savage.

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Riddle me this then. How would you encourage participation and taking the top end of the leader board seriously? If the rewards could just be obtained at any time (or as we see now, the rewards being non-existent), you'd lose competitive integrity since people would care a lot less, which isn't healthy for Ranked in an incentive-driven game.

Believe me, as much as I am defending my point about it I can understand people being mad at the limited supply, but please understand that you simply cannot directly compare PvP Ranked with doing Ultimates or Savages beyond both having exciting items. If there was no limited supply, there would be no actual stakes.

In games like Overwatch this is fine given the whole game is PvP (and Ranked generally is a scaling experience), in FFXIV you have to incentivise players to do something.

No one cares if youre top 100 in the end.

I say to the contrary of innocence
and guilty as others have said.

While the chances of a person being Earned through merit, or other unsavory means including cards, and manipulation.

The value of being a top player is that you are there. the bonus only exists that you have it.

People also dont care if you were top 100 in the feasts as its gone. so are the skills and changes since then. a top 100 player will have skill, but still have time to adjust to the PVP of today.

So Merit is from Achieving The Heights, or at least the bracket today.

Its why Titles from Solo DD, Advent Plate Frames, Ult/Content Completion weapons Mean something/anything at all. Cause you had to put effort into them.

But what say if the Regions and DCs that have low population. They simply put complete and then vacate, not only making it difficult for those who do want to participate to achieve.

Exclusivity and FOMO BE DAMNED.
<I exclusively do CC Ranked, until I get bored and decide to do FL/etc.., but sadly mogtomes and my streak made it nearly impossible to get a match in before arena changes and requeues>

Cause like I mentioned In this response to any against returning items.
A item doesnt reflect a persons skill or value in content. its their continued Place within it.
<itd be foolish if someone who got within the 100 in the early feasts claim to be top 100 now if they havent partaken in years. Just like saying some old rewards that dont mean anything to anyone anymore, should remain dead.>

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Originally Posted by GTK0HLK

pt1

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As for a way to claim it, its the same as Series rewards disappearing or the way we are forced to claim season rewards. they should be permanent, but youre required to begin an old Pass/Chain before you get to accept the next one til you reach Current content. <this is an example from that topic I replied to> Making Current Content, status and Completion Valuable and Exclusive to those who actively Partake(for a while til, not active participants catch up), whilst content and items dont get dropped into the void forever.

its why the topic and idea of the Haves and Havenots always come up.

[even if you dont explicitly state it, its more or less unnecessarily locking items that used to be exclusive, to now be locked off. instead of making it more available.]

as for the whole Naming/attaching Replica to it. you dont need that at all. those who achieved those heights will always be known by those who they actively struggled against. and those who were there.

[could go on and on.., But keeping these things locked behind when their Era is gone, is just as adjacent as the devs keeping Class/job locked items.]

The Answer to the Question is not to Convince, but to Encourage.
There are many who believe they arent worthy or good enough, but at the very least getting them into Casual or into any customs is a start.
<I threw myself into Ranked, so Im some of those who willingly learn through Trial. but to get players to strive to high positions is encouragement, and honestly. a better reward system. which adjacent to Gearing systems. its also something people want to be better in new content as well.., -eyes V/C Dngs->

TLDR: Many giving the typical No, but dont give a detailed potential solution that pleases many.
Over things that have lost their worth years ago. Where the only value that matters, is within those players who were there, and achieved

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Riddle me this then. How would you encourage participation and taking the top end of the leader board seriously? If the rewards could just be obtained at any time (or as we see now, the rewards being non-existent), you'd lose competitive integrity since people would care a lot less, which isn't healthy for Ranked in an incentive-driven game.

Believe me, as much as I am defending my point about it I can understand people being mad at the limited supply, but please understand that you simply cannot directly compare PvP Ranked with doing Ultimates or Savages beyond both having exciting items. If there was no limited supply, there would be no actual stakes.

In games like Overwatch this is fine given the whole game is PvP (and Ranked generally is a scaling experience), in FFXIV you have to incentivise players to do something.

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Being top of the leader board isn't enough?



People who get speed clears or world first don't get anything either.



They don't even get titles. Why should top 100 pvp be any different?

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

you mean not grasping mathematical concepts and refusing to admit you're wrong?

There are 8 data centers currently: 3 NA, 3 JP, 2 EU.

The definition of prime numbers explicitly excludes 1 because including 1 would break so many concepts. Quote: "A prime number (or a prime) is a natural number greater than 1 that is not a product of two smaller natural numbers."

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U forgot Oceania

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Riddle me this then. How would you encourage participation and taking the top end of the leader board seriously?

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Like same with pve... you know... making content fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

People who get speed clears or world first don't get anything either.

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I think worldfirst raiders should have something too, instead of making every rare item or achievement the game has accessible to everyone. WoW used to do that, idk if they still do.

You can kinda ask yourself, is an MMORPG allowed to have rare items that not every player can get? Does everyone have to win in a Player vs Player mode, or are losers necessary? This game community maybe likes everyone to be a winner, but thats not really PvP then is it? Either you lose or win. Same with Ishgard Crafting Seasons, I cant get that title anymore now, its not coming back.

There is legacy tattoo, legacy mount, ff14 1.0 titles, old soundtrack minions, emotes of statues that cost a few thousand $ on ebay, all older than the PvP Ranked Items, but only PvP is the baddie with their 5 glam sets that got reskinned 2-4 times. Im not really convinced, especially since PvP became a casual fun meme mode, where you just grind your stuff nowadays.

If you want everything to be 4 all in this MMO, then demand everything and not just this set.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

You didn't say that I care about as few people as possible having the reward, you said that I only care about others not having whatever it is. It is close, but not the same. And I am no demon caring that as few as possible get it either.

All I want is the integrity and meaning of the reward to retain as much significance as possible, hence I am okay with redistribution under similar conditions. This means more can have it, but have to fight and earn it vs farming an unrelated currency until you get it.


I am not 100% sure if I understand your question, so I will have to answer based on how I understand it.

If everyone had access to earning the top 100 mounts from The Feast somehow, it would depend entirely how it is obtainable. Arguably various mounts (or recolours) have been less desirable over Armour sets, therefore I could see even those have looser restrictions than reobtaining Feast Armour. However if they simply got dumped into Trophy Crystal shop or Moogle Tome event, I'd be highly disappointed. I'd know that the Mount meant at least something, so it would bother me if suddenly everyone were to run around with it.

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Not simple enough of a question I see.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I'd be okay with that. Literally anything to tell apart the original from the replica.

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This however is a perfectly working compromise for me. I dont care at all if the glams I use has the name replica in front of it or not.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Riddle me this then. How would you encourage participation and taking the top end of the leader board seriously? If the rewards could just be obtained at any time (or as we see now, the rewards being non-existent), you'd lose competitive integrity since people would care a lot less, which isn't healthy for Ranked in an incentive-driven game.

Believe me, as much as I am defending my point about it I can understand people being mad at the limited supply, but please understand that you simply cannot directly compare PvP Ranked with doing Ultimates or Savages beyond both having exciting items. If there was no limited supply, there would be no actual stakes.

In games like Overwatch this is fine given the whole game is PvP (and Ranked generally is a scaling experience), in FFXIV you have to incentivise players to do something.

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A lot of raiders care a lot about the colour on their log and that has literally 0 reward to it, it's not even something official. Getting world first on ultimate gives you nothing. Clearing week 1 has no meaning beyond getting a mount a few weeks earlier than slower people. And yet many raiders care a lot about it.

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Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

10 years of PvP, 5 Glam Sets

10 years of PvE, 1500 Glam Sets

"OMG why do PvP players get so good rewards?"

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To understand that frustration, you don't compare it to the entirety of the game's sets but to what is available to us at level one for all classes. Look through the wasteland of spy trenchcoats and modern streetwear and another freaking pair of plain wristgloves and lace-up shoes and then look at the glorious fantasy armour sets handed out to a select few who were here at the time and might have never even cared about the glamour in the first place.

In over five years of playing, I have seen ONE person utilising these outfits.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Riddle me this then. How would you encourage participation and taking the top end of the leader board seriously?

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Riddle me this, why should it matter? If the game is fun, people will want to play it. People who want to take it seriously and be top of the leaderboard will strive to do so.

And if the game isn't actually fun, then the devs should see that nobody is playing for the sake of their "2022 Champion" title, and consider how to make the mode better rather than propping it up with exclusive items for years so people will play a thing they don't enjoy.

Also, the stakes could have been other types of items, or glamours that would be (explicitly from the beginning) exclusive for two years before being made available to other players – long enough for bragging rights but with no permanent loss of the glamour being available.

The "exclusive for all time" approach just loses us access to some really cool glamour potential.

I fall in the camp that MMO's should have some degree of exclusive content, not everything is meant for everyone. An MMO is a living breathing world having exclusive content tied to certain subsets within the community. The exclusive content enriches the experience and feel of the game. Seeing things I cannot obtain sure sucks but it also makes said item that much cooler.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I fall in the camp that MMO's should have some degree of exclusive content, not everything is meant for everyone. An MMO is a living breathing world having exclusive content tied to certain subsets within the community. The exclusive content enriches the experience and feel of the game. Seeing things I cannot obtain sure sucks but it also makes said item that much cooler.

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It can be exclusive without being permanently unavailable.



Make it x number of wins in ranked or something, but MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO OBTAIN.



You can still obtain every single PVE reward that exists. Why does PVP get to be different? Its not like those rewards drew more people to PVP, arguably because it was only top 100, less people probably played.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It can be exclusive without being permanently unavailable.



Make it x number of wins in ranked or something, but MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO OBTAIN.



You can still obtain every single PVE reward that exists. Why does PVP get to be different? Its not like those rewards drew more people to PVP, arguably because it was only top 100, less people probably played.

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We already have people complaining about that PvP coat that requires X amount of wins. Let us be real people still complain about that one garo mount that is what 30 and 60 wins? I do not PvP much to know exactly. I do not think PvP should be only ones, I would love to see a special title or reward for those that cleared week 1 savage and first month of ultimate something along those lines. Game should be rewarding their hardcore players more not less.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To understand that frustration, you don't compare it to the entirety of the game's sets but to what is available to us at level one for all classes. Look through the wasteland of spy trenchcoats and modern streetwear and another freaking pair of plain wristgloves and lace-up shoes and then look at the glorious fantasy armour sets handed out to a select few who were here at the time and might have never even cared about the glamour in the first place.

In over five years of playing, I have seen ONE person utilising these outfits.




Riddle me this, why should it matter? If the game is fun, people will want to play it. People who want to take it seriously and be top of the leaderboard will strive to do so.

And if the game isn't actually fun, then the devs should see that nobody is playing for the sake of their "2022 Champion" title, and consider how to make the mode better rather than propping it up with exclusive items for years so people will play a thing they don't enjoy.

Also, the stakes could have been other types of items, or glamours that would be (explicitly from the beginning) exclusive for two years before being made available to other players – long enough for bragging rights but with no permanent loss of the glamour being available.

The "exclusive for all time" approach just loses us access to some really cool glamour potential.

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Glams and title is the main reasons people do any kind of content in this game. Remove glams from every PVE content and you will barely see anyone doing any content out of roulette and MSQ.

Seriously your a whole next level of cattered casual player if you complain some people who worked a lot on being top 100 get a reward that you don't get. Only a few selected glams and tittle are exclusive, let the people who earned that have their own little things. It okay to just see something you can't get and just say ''Well too bad'' and go one whitout complaining.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It can be exclusive without being permanently unavailable.



Make it x number of wins in ranked or something, but MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO OBTAIN.



You can still obtain every single PVE reward that exists. Why does PVP get to be different? Its not like those rewards drew more people to PVP, arguably because it was only top 100, less people probably played.

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If we're gonna talk about PvE now then that's technically false. Saint & Beata and any titles related to the actual Firm ranking aren't available anymore and never will be. Pteranodon stuff is still there but acquiring the ranked titles and any associated with the event itself are gone. Having exclusive stuff isn't new to FF, especially when it comes to ranked competitions.

I personally don't mind it because it pushes me to work harder to get it, what grinds my gears are the people who use bots or other gross methods to shove people out of spots.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

. Saint & Beata and any titles related to the actual Firm ranking aren't available anymore and never will be.

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A competition of who just happens to have most free time in a 10 day period isn't that great of a competition :p If it ever returns I hope its heavily changed

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Originally Posted by Nanne

A competition of who just happens to have most free time in a 10 day period isn't that great of a competition :p If it ever returns I hope its heavily changed

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One could argue the same for pvp competitions since you need lots of time to play to stay at the top...any ranking competition that takes place online over the span of multiple days or weeks is going to require a time or financial investment to rank high.

Nothing should be locked behind pvp. The game mode is a complete mess. Locking content behind bad content is bad design.

I think things like this is where some of WOW's reward logic makes sense. On that game you get the same glam from multiple places, but wih a different colour base (they dont have dyes as far as im aware) So a way around would be to do a PVP Exclusive reward with a specific colour palet and then a slightly different one that is always available. This way you preserve the exclusivity, while also allowing the glam to be accessible. Alternatively just make it exclusive for a limited time frame.

We already see this with the Demon Gear from World of Darkness and the Indigo Rammie Casting set - its different colour pallet means that it dyes uniquely.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Nothing should be locked behind pvp. The game mode is a complete mess. Locking content behind bad content is bad design.

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"Nothing should be locked behind content I don't like because I am the most important player in the game."

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

One could argue the same for pvp competitions since you need lots of time to play to stay at the top...any ranking competition that takes place online over the span of multiple days or weeks is going to require a time or financial investment to rank high.

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PvP seasons again seem to run back to back without stopping and the rewards are pretty much the same every time so everyone has a good chance of finding time to do it instead having very limited chances during one expansion :p

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Originally Posted by Nanne

PvP seasons again seem to run back to back without stopping and the rewards are pretty much the same every time so everyone has a good chance of finding time to do it instead having very limited chances during one expansion :p

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I feel like we're on two different pages here cause I'm not discussing the current season set up.

At the same time though, thank you for proving my point that you still need to invest time regardless.

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Originally Posted by Nanne

PvP seasons again seem to run back to back without stopping and the rewards are pretty much the same every time so everyone has a good chance of finding time to do it instead having very limited chances during one expansion :p

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Someone didn't read what the thread topic is.

They should retroactively give rewards to each CC seasons top 100s just to see how the forums would implode.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Someone didn't read what the thread topic is.

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And most of the posts already have diverted from talking about the Shadowbringers armor set :p

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Originally Posted by ThaCa

They should retroactively give rewards to each CC seasons top 100s just to see how the forums would implode.

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I think most people wouldn't care that much, sure it make the set less exclusive, but it is as hard to obtain as before and you don't feel like you effort are worth nothing. People are just against buying the set for a couple of wolf mark or whatever, that would just be sad tbh

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

I think most people wouldn't care that much, sure it make the set less exclusive, but it is as hard to obtain as before and you don't feel like you effort are worth nothing. People are just against buying the set for a couple of wolf mark or whatever, that would just be sad tbh

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Make them wolf collars. Requires a lot of cc season rewards to get them

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Make them wolf collars. Requires a lot of cc season rewards to get them

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Still nothing compared to what it get to be top 100. People farmed and worked a lot for it. just make it so top 100 in CC get it at season end. It the best middle ground we can have.

I am not even a PvPer in this game, why do people want to make more rewards gated by time, instead of an accomplishment? I think we should be asking for more rewards to be gated around an accomplishment week 1 clears should be a special title and the if you clear ultimate within the first cycle your weapon has a different color or effect from everyone else that cleared it after. SE should double down on exclusive rewards.