New Instanced Raids (03/07/2012)

Probably not the case but what if switching is only allowed at certain times...being an instance not one of them...

I guess they should have showed the other raid instead, since it has a new type of environment

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Well Darkhold isn't so bad...they designed it with multiple ways to play and multiple outcomes. Some people only like doing things 1x some like to do them 100x. This is just a conflict in play styles and what people ultimately run a raid for.

Do you run an instance to play together? for treasure? for fun? for serious? for story....etc etc.

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I don't mind repeating content if it's designed in such a way that I'll continue to enjoy it multiple times. The loot systems of the primal fights and the overall design of Darkhold frustrated me, so I didn't partake in them nearly as many times as others have.

As far as why do I run instances? All of the above answers. I want to group with my friends, I want to get shinies, I want to experience the story behind it, I want to have fun. However, I don't find running through 30 packs of monsters numerous times fun or innovative. Nor do I find the loot system for primal fights to be anything more than an artificial means to extend the content. I don't want to do a fight 50 times only to drop an item 5 times for a class I don't even play and not get the one for my main class. At least in WoW a boss was GUARANTEED to drop something, unlike some primal runs I've done where the only thing anyone got was dark matter.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

For those saying "take away the time limits", just think about this: If time limits are gone and the areas stay instanced, parties will just clog up those instances and prevent ppl from experiencing the content.

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Somehow I doubt there are enough active players to accomplish this, but I don't know the capacity of the instance server. I don't think I've ever run into a case where I couldn't get into one though, unlike WoW where I bash myself against the portal trying to get in on patch days.

Read maintenance log...store your materia gear...that should be more of a prominent post...store it or lose it!!!

That looked like a snore fest, really hope the other actually at least looks fun.

Was just thinking about the assumed mnk 'charge' ability. Would kinda make sense for them to implement some kind of ability for us to get within melee range of a mob what with alot of complaints about us constantly having to chase down the mobs. C'mon sexy charge+tp skill~

EDIT; Also wasn't one of the mnk skills supposed to be a "hold" skill or something where you basically expend mp to stop the target moving/taking action (also stopping yourself doing the same) perhaps this is it and it also 'teleports'/'charges' you next to the mob for it to be executed at which point it becomes a dual use ability. Pure crazy speculation but patch is coming soon and im excited.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

So what let people do the content the way they want to, surely its better if people are having fun.

Are you really saying that there is more strategy in training a whole dungeon of trash mob than killing it all.

I would rather see the boss monsters spawn after an area is cleared of trash, kind of like how the Coeurl does in Shposhae.

I know that is an open world dungeon but its a lot more fun than any of the others if you are the appropriate level.

Rushing people through an instance is not the right idea.

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What part of darkhold was bad design have you not read in my posts?

Please link me to where I said "I wanna train all mobs to the boss"

Darkhold is the only time you have trained mobs in a timed instance I have ever seen, a well designed timed dungeon has mobs placed and enough mobs so you fight your way to the boss, and if you have used a good stratagy you have time to kill the boss.

Look at my FFXI examples:

Dynamis, you had to kill the time extention mobs, you had to time your pulls right, you had to take the right routes to win, if you wiped too much you would time out, if you didnt because of good stratagies you would win and have time to farm.

Einherjar, time was very tight, one wipe and you would likely time out so you had to make sure you could take the slew of mobs attacking at once and keep high dps to kill all of them and the boss to get the treasure and the win.

Nyzul, Admitedly alot of luck was involved but you had to correctly coordinate your party for lamps, kill all floors you had to have high dps and know when to split up etc etc.

Limbus, Too many wipes again would time you out you couldn't run through to find the mobs to open the portal, you had to stratigicly kill them where you would not aggro others, or in extreme circumstances run round specific ways.

These are all well designed timed instances none of which are soley train all mobs to get to the boss.

Darkhold was just badly designed, I hope the new dungeons are well designed so we do kill the smaller mobs to get to the boss.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

In the fanart of 2.0 you can see the people attacking more then one part of his body wonder why they change there mind about that :( oh well it still look awesome and it look really Final Fantasy Great job DEV really great job.

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More like for 2.0 it'll change.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

Im sure they will have this kind of content again in the future, this however is not one of them. We don't even know what the other dungeon is, although it is prob timed as well. My point is, there is no point in saying it should have been this or it could have been that. It is what it is and theres always next time.

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Yes because if we sit here and say nothing they will surely know some of us don't like it huh.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Yes because if we sit here and say nothing they will surely know we don't like it huh.

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But some people do like it, you cant argue that everything be your way. Or maybe you can, w/e.

In before the "train mobs until you get to the teleport"

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Well the white knights need something to defend against huh ?



I think the timed aspect is pointless, I would rather take my time and kill everything in an instance, plus it would be a nice alternative for level 45's to go in and XP off the trash.

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I hope after 2.0, we will get alot more variation in the dungeons, meaning not only different mobs, bosses and location, but also different gameplay.
Instead of all being 1h timer 8man 2 boss with skippable trash, they should mix it up with 4 and 8 man(and more?), have some set timed and some with time extensions etc as well as no limit ones that can be used for exp groups.

More variations in objectives would be welcome as well, like key & chest hunting, simple puzles, randomized rooms, mini boss encounters, optional and secret bosses.

I realy hope SE gets creative with end game content in 2.0 (you might dislike XI but it had good variation in gameplay between different kinds of instances) instead of only 8 man content and raids all with the same rules.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

For those saying "take away the time limits", just think about this: If time limits are gone and the areas stay instanced, parties will just clog up those instances and prevent ppl from experiencing the content.

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LOL yea because every other MMO out there suffers from this huh ?

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Originally Posted by Choyi

I hope after 2.0, we will get alot more variation in the dungeons, meaning not only different mobs, bosses and location, but also different gameplay.
Instead of all being 1h timer 8man 2 boss with skippable trash, they should mix it up with 4 and 8 man(and more?), have some set timed and some with time extensions etc as well as no limit ones that can be used for exp groups.

More variations in objectives would be welcome as well, like key & chest hunting, simple puzles, randomized rooms, mini boss encounters, optional and secret bosses.

I realy hope SE gets creative with end game content in 2.0 (you might dislike XI but it had good variation in gameplay between different kinds of instances) instead of only 8 man content and raids all with the same rules.

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everything i highlighted is in game now, so im sure more will come.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

LOL yea because every other MMO out there suffers from this huh ?

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I said stop it already!

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

But some people do like it, you cant argue that everything be your way. Or maybe you can, w/e.

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Don't camp my post !! :P

You will notice by the time I edited we to some you had already got the wrong end of the stick and posted.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

I hope after 2.0, we will get alot more variation in the dungeons, meaning not only different mobs, bosses and location, but also different gameplay.
Instead of all being 1h timer 8man 2 boss with skippable trash, they should mix it up with 4 and 8 man(and more?), have some set timed and some with time extensions etc as well as no limit ones that can be used for exp groups.

More variations in objectives would be welcome as well, like key & chest hunting, simple puzles, randomized rooms, mini boss encounters, optional and secret bosses.

I realy hope SE gets creative with end game content in 2.0 (you might dislike XI but it had good variation in gameplay between different kinds of instances) instead of only 8 man content and raids all with the same rules.

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I can only hope, btw I didn't dislike FF11, some of the stuff like MMM was really cool and I would love to see that in this game.

Jinko is just trolling us now, as far as he thinks everything SE does is wrong, I love how he didn't reply to my post.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Don't camp my post !! :P

You will notice by the time I edited we to some you had already got the wrong end of the stick and posted.

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so now i have to give you sufficient time to edit you post, lol, you are too much

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

so now i have to give you sufficient time to edit you post, lol, you are too much

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Yes I need more TIME !!

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Jinko is just trolling us now, as far as he thinks everything SE does is wrong, I love how he didn't reply to my post.

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Oh here we go you didn't like something I said, so now I'm a troll, don't be baby!

I missed your post I will go back and look for it, I cant reply to everyone ya know /grin

Edit:- Yes I agree with your post, DH was very badly designed and you are correct that the time extention stuff in 11 was pretty good.

That being said we will soon see what these new dungeons are like then perhaps I may have more weight behind my post, perhaps not though :D

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Chimera and the Ant Queen looks cool.

But really disappointed it looks like Copperbell, Come on SE! where is the variety in the zones ?

It looks a lot more fun than Darkhold thats for sure, I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a trainfest.

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They are most probably focusing all of their "environment designers" to 2.0 development...
At least I HOPE thats the reason

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Originally Posted by Velhart

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Originally Posted by Murugan

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Of course there is a solution, impose a penalty if you have too many of the same class.

Take their frikkin "strength in numbers" away.

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Or you could just not complain and let other people do content however they want.

Balance is a developer problem, they should be making sure that fights can't be trivialized by stacking a certain class. If it can then that is a viable strategy (hopefully not the only one). Putting in an arbitrary penalty if you aren't running the rainbow coalition of jobs is a pretty lazy fix. As would be giving every class a single necessary group buff, no one said it was easy making a good MMO.

Make every class useful, what players do is their business if you give them the proper tools to work with they will come up with various strategies to accomplish results beyond even the developer's expectations. In this aspect FFXIV has so far not done so great yet. But that is why we are getting jobs and other combat changes.

Also alliance content please.

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Pretty much. You should never force balance in a party, you just have to balance it well enough that it "influences" people to have diverse parties.

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As opposed to a penalty... there could be incentives to having all jobs present
So it's not necessary but it is helpful
like this
*shameless plug alert*
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Battle-Theory

Yea incentives would be better, I liked the idea Firon had abouteach class bringing certain stat increases to the party.

Like Dragoon bringing a party wide Crit bonus.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

But some people do like it, you cant argue that everything be your way. Or maybe you can, w/e.

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Some people just really hate to believe that there's people who like or enjoy this game or like and enjoy certain things they do even if they personally hate it.

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Originally Posted by Sigmakan

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/g...08fdc1e873.JPG

Can anyone translate this?

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Rasetsushou (roughly, Spirit Impact)
Monk, Recast Time: 60 seconds
Charging attack against target. If no enmity exists on the target, additional effect: Stun.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Some people just really hate to believe that there's people who like or enjoy this game or like and enjoy certain things they do even if they personally hate it.

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You are replying to a post of a post which was edited and nor did I mean to imply that everyone shared my opinion. (Hence why I edited it) fact is many people feel that timed dungeons are stupid, just read the whole thread.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You are replying to a post of a post which was edited and nor did I mean to imply that everyone shared my opinion. (Hence why I edited it) fact is many people feel that timed dungeons are stupid, just read the whole thread.

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Some people in this thread have argued that Timed Dungeons makes it so everyone rushes through said Dungeon, but I suspect the same thing will happen regardless of it being timed or not. So really, I don't think it makes much of a difference in that regard.

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

Some people in this thread have argued that Timed Dungeons makes it so everyone rushes through said Dungeon, but I suspect the same thing will happen regardless of it being timed or not. So really, I don't think it makes much of a difference in that regard.

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Just like some suggested to make the mobs not return to their spawn position.

Like Chyio said in WoW you can't do that because the mobs don't reset which means if you aggro something you either kill it or you die, I think in 11 they didn't reset either.

I don't think the timer is the issue, as Delsus said its that the DH is poorly designed and that the mobs have a short leesh and reset so fast.

I'm totally in favour of tim extensions like Dynamis used to have, we all know how badly pulls could go in that :P and they would chase you down til you were dead.

Which means people have to take care with what they are doing unless they want to wipe the group, Isn't that more fun than training mobs for "speed runs" ?

As repsonce to people about where a Chimera can or can't belong.

In various fiction Chimera often show up as bio-engineered/magicaly/alchemic created monsters and can thus fit to be found in any location, rarely is a Chimera natural to the fauna of the setting. : >

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

Some people in this thread have argued that Timed Dungeons makes it so everyone rushes through said Dungeon, but I suspect the same thing will happen regardless of it being timed or not. So really, I don't think it makes much of a difference in that regard.

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at the end of the day the faster you clear the content the more chest you open = more chances for loot. In my experience people choose the safest way til they learn the fight better. After being able to clear the content the goal is usually to improve speed. I don't know anyone who ever says, "i wish we could do this slower"

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Just like some suggested to make the mobs not return to their spawn position.

Like Chyio said in WoW you can't do that because the mobs don't reset which means if you aggro something you either kill it or you die, I think in 11 they didn't reset either.

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The biggest reason they can't do this is because although it might look like it's a single zone due to seamlessness, it isn't. In addition to the long 'corridors of loading', there are small quickload areas all over the place, hence the reason why the stats of your fellow party members go ???? the moment you're decently far away from them even if you're in the same zone (remember how in FFXI you could see the PT member's HP/MP even if they're across the entire map as long as you're in the same zone?). And because mobs can't cross these quickload zones, they have to be leashed.

That's how I understand it, anyway. I could be wrong.

By the way, this issue could be solved if there are enough of this 'teleport quicksands' and you have to have no enmity on the mobs which are guarding them before you can teleport, which seems like the case in this raid.

But, as many others have pointed out, it really is useless to complain until we have actually experienced it first hand, and have done so at least several times.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Just like some suggested to make the mobs not return to their spawn position.

Like Chyio said in WoW you can't do that because the mobs don't reset which means if you aggro something you either kill it or you die, I think in 11 they didn't reset either.

I don't think the timer is the issue, as Delsus said its that the DH is poorly designed and that the mobs have a short leesh and reset so fast.

I'm totally in favour of tim extensions like Dynamis used to have, we all know how badly pulls could go in that though and they would chase you down til you were dead.

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Mobs despawn in XI if they aren't NM tagged (Impossible to Gauge), something people wanted mobs to do because they got tired of dying (aka, MMO gamers are pussies now, I'm sorry lol.)

As for Timed dungeons being stupid, it's not stupid at all and nor does it make you rush it makes you manage time better which you'd do regardless of a timer or not, no one likes to waste time.

As for Chimera...typically in FF games you can find them in a desert like area (not always, but there's always that one corner of the world where there's a desert and a chimera waiting to rape you.)

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Just like some suggested to make the mobs not return to their spawn position.

Like Chyio said in WoW you can't do that because the mobs don't reset which means if you aggro something you either kill it or you die, I think in 11 they didn't reset either.

I don't think the timer is the issue, as Delsus said its that the DH is poorly designed and that the mobs have a short leesh and reset so fast.

I'm totally in favour of tim extensions like Dynamis used to have, we all know how badly pulls could go in that :P and they would chase you down til you were dead.

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Choo-choo, here comes the gobbie train.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Really? Are we really going to complain about graphics

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Irrelevant, but you can complain if you want.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Creating a dungeon is difficult enough

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It's difficult if you are making first dungeon for your new game. Not, if you have premade tools and some assets, even less if you have just to reuse all of your assets.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Creating mobs and AI for them is very labor intensive

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AI is already created, reuse it or modify(applies only to final boss) and reuse. Indeed, creating tons of new mobs is time consuming, but we are talking about a few. They could've just modified them, but they didn't even bother to recolor them.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

Balancing it all with the new job system...

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It just set of few new skills and armors, nothing major or groundbreaking. And it's nothing new for dev team. Don't try to exaggerate things.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

releasing all the new crafting items. I'm surprised they even added Chimera. I was expecting them hold that till 2.0

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Most of the new crafting items are old/recolor items with new recipe and/or name. Nothing surprising about chimera:
a)we knew about dungeon ways back
b)old high rank dungeon have 1 unique boss

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Originally Posted by Agoven

I don't expect even 1 new graphical asset in the dungeon...we got at least one...

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I did expect get some new thingies... and we only got 1. Notice how our views differ?

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Originally Posted by Agoven

We see barely 3 minutes of dungeon footage and people are going to make full assumptions. You know what they say when you assume?

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Whole 3 minutes and nothing new. Do you know what for promo video are used for?

Sidenote: you assume quite a lot yourself.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

If I threw any of you complainers into the coding and design room I wonder what I would get in a month ... no wait a years time. You might actually spend 6 months just to draw 1 3D image.

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offtopic and irrelevant.

example: You don't like/criticize my something(car)?!

If I threw any of you complainers into the car design and assemble room I wonder what I would get in 1 year ... no wait 6 years time. You might actually spend 2 years just to design car's bumper.

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Originally Posted by Agoven

YES THE WHITE KNIGHT HAS ARRIVED better then being a TROLL!

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Someone says something I don't like = troll... My sides.


P.S HALP! I'm about to be attacked from all fronts!

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Originally Posted by Belial

Choo-choo, here comes the gobbie train.

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Crawler trains were the best. Someone dragged a soldier, knight or rumble crawler to the Rolanberry field zoneline, which caused it to link with the non-aggro crawlers, so you have an amry of crawlers at the zoneline waiting to rape anyone, level 38 or 75 that enters.

You think 50 minutes is bad for a timer, try 2 hours of being locked out in an open world dungeon til a GM removes the mobs or a bunch of 75s get brave enough and kill em :D

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Originally Posted by Belial

Choo-choo, here comes the gobbie train.

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Thats what we need !!

A goblin dungeon that'll show those MMO pussies.

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

The biggest reason they can't do this is because although it might look like it's a single zone due to seamlessness, it isn't. In addition to the long 'corridors of loading', there are small quickload areas all over the place, hence the reason why the stats of your fellow party members go ???? the moment you're decently far away from them even if you're in the same zone (remember how in FFXI you could see the PT members HP/MP even if they're across the entire map as long as you're in the same zone). And because mobs can't cross these quickload zones, they have to be leashed.

That's how I understand it, anyway. I could be wrong.

By the way, this issue could be solved if there are enough of this 'teleport quicksands' and you have to have no enmity on the mobs which are guarding them before you can teleport, which seems like the case in this raid.

But, as many others have pointed out, it really is useless to complain until we have actually experienced it first hand, and have done so at least several times.

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You have a good point, hopefully with 2.0 this will change seeing as the zones will be more like 11's.

The bosses look great. Really excited for it.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Crawler trains were the best. Someone dragged a soldier, knight or rumble crawler to the Rolanberry field zoneline, which caused it to link with the non-aggro crawlers, so you have an amry of crawlers at the zoneline waiting to rape anyone, level 38 or 75 that enters.

You think 50 minutes is bad for a timer, try 2 hours of being locked out in an open world dungeon til a GM removes the mobs or a bunch of 75s get brave enough and kill em :D

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Soo many memories! xD I had many a good laugh about the amount of chaos and rage that kind of situation brought even while being a victim of it myself. ^^

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Crawler trains were the best. Someone dragged a soldier, knight or rumble crawler to the Rolanberry field zoneline, which caused it to link with the non-aggro crawlers, so you have an amry of crawlers at the zoneline waiting to rape anyone, level 38 or 75 that enters.

You think 50 minutes is bad for a timer, try 2 hours of being locked out in an open world dungeon til a GM removes the mobs or a bunch of 75s get brave enough and kill em :D

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Well yes and no, at least people knew what it was. I was always more entertained by the scatter of new players in Dunes when 10 gobbies were running up to Selbina.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats what we need !!

A goblin dungeon that'll show those MMO pussies.

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Goblins are too friendly in XIV. :(

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Originally Posted by Belial

Goblins are too friendly in XIV. :(

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Probably just as well, those lvl 99 gobs in Coerthas hit like stream trains.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Probably just as well, those lvl 99 gobs in Coerthas hit like stream trains.

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By steam train....

I think you mean....

DOOM TRAIN!

http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/ffvii...doomtrain5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vackashken

By steam train....

I think you mean....

DOOM TRAIN!

http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/ffvii...doomtrain5.jpg

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You my friend deserve a gold star for that.