Jobs and Class, I am nervous now.

I promise it won't be anything bad.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Can I ask why?

I find it unfair that a class with armor, can take more hits, and isn't held back by Mana can outdamage the class that has none of those. Kinda the whole risk/reward deal.

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You don't think there's risk in being melee (e.g., jobs that wear heavy-ish armor) - in restricting yourself to only being able to do damage in close proximity? A melee player could say the same thing: That they find it unfair that mages can pump damage, CC, and debuffs all while being at a safe distance to avoid almost all damage period. This whole "risk/reward" you speak of doesn't just apply to mages; there's risk in melee as well, but just different kinds and different flavors.

Melee have to be in proximity to almost all forms of damage that mobs can spew out, otherwise they won't be able to do any damage at all. Take for example the Kirin fight in XI - if a melee gets/remains to close they're going to get fayced by his huge AoE spell (think it was Aeroga IV - I forget). Perhaps there are better examples, but I think that's simple enough to get the gist. So there's a risk involved just to be able to whip out some WSs on him. Mages on the other hand can remain at a safe distance at all times all while being able to do burst damage at whatever pace they choose (for the most part). Also, as mages have to manage their MP, melee have to manage their TP and use it just as accordingly as mages use their MP pool.

But regardless, I could go on an on about the trade offs between melee vs. mages, but when it all boils down it's all about what can effectively damage the mob during fights. Some fights the mob is too dangerous for anyone to stay at close proximity (and at times, even the tank), and so this is perhaps when mages (and ranged, such as Archers/Rangers/etc.) shine; whereas other fights the mob is so resistant to magic that the only thing that'll really damage it is a blunt weapon across its fayce.

And I'm surprised you think that - honestly; that mages by virtue of being "mages" should somehow always... *magically* (pun intended)... be top DD on average regardless of the fight. I mean, XI had loads of mobs that were highly resistant to magic, to the point where melee were forced to SC just so the mages could get a bump in accuracy and damage so they were sitting there like useless spots in the alliance (which, IMO, was great tactics - to have BLM burst on SC w/e possible).

That one job should always be top overall regardless of the situation is tantamount to suggesting that this game (or any FF game) should only consist of a tank, a healer, and a party of DD consisting only of JOB-X; it's foolishly audacious.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

That movement while casting video has made me very extremely nervous on how jobs are supposed to improve party play, or anything else at that matter. After watching it and noticing a few things it makes me wonder... how?

The job we see attacking the kobolds is a black mage. If you look at the level bar in the video it's a purple comet (color blind it may be blue). If you were a thaumaturge it would be the flaming torch symbol.

The second thing I noticed is he used spells after showing that they can be canceled while moving. The damage he displayed as a black mage... is what bothers me the most... it was the same damage amount I can do to them now. The other thing was the mp cost of the spells, if you look hard enough it's still exactly the same amount. How does Black Mage improve from Thaumaturge?

Ancient magic spells, 15 minute recasts. Freeze seems to be the only good one. If Convert generates tons of hate it's better to use freeze, than burst. Burst you might end up kill yourself. Flare... fire aoe with a DoT effect. Great job, make sleepga useless, and wipe your whole party. Can't tell you how many times I have heard/seen a dynamis wipe when someone used poisonga II.

Jobs are supposed to bring roles, White Mage is the healer, and Black Mage the elemental damage dealer. If jobs don't add to damage, or cut mp cost to certain spells. Situationly, White Mage can out damage a black mage, and I am sorry, gonna make alot of people made with this, this should ONLY happen at one time, and only one time. When you fight the Undead. The fact that Cjn can out damage Thm in places like Zahar'ak, I can live with that I guess, because we aren't in roles yet. Though when we are Black mage/ White mage roles, my damage should almost always, 99.9% of the time outdamage white mage.

We have two options from Reinhart's thread that we either only get to cross -class either 5 abilities, or can only cross-class abilities from the classes that the job requires. Pugilist for Black Mage is a seriously dumb decision. Some people in another thread said Blind side can be useful for black mage. It isn't, it clearly states it doesn't work with spells. If we can only cross class for the two classes, second wind is useless. Go ahead and smack Ifrit or moogles and see how fast you lose more hp trying to heal yourself without invigorate.

If you can choose 5 abilities from any class, that would be slightly better but not much. As Blm I guess I would have Invigorate, Second Wind, Sentinel, Chameleon, raise. Look what I don't have now, cure or stoneskin. So I have to make even more sure in fights like Ifrit I don't get caught in an eruption. Cause I can't cure myself constantly. Even after Hellfire I will have low Hp since I didn't have Stoneskin, Sanguine Rites, with Sentinel.

So how do jobs help with their roles when they gimp your abilities, give no damage increase, no mp cut to certain spells.

I am just really also bothered by how no one else seems to care/notice. Everyone was upset with how much spells cost when the patch 1.20 came out. And We see there has been nothing done about it in that video with the black mage. With only 4 days left before the patch, how can it be drastically changed to prove me wrong? Why be a job, when a class can do it the same, and have more freedom with cross class?

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Firstly I would like to point out you mention complaining about spell cost in 1.20 but then say Black Mage is no better than Thm, despite having convert which will effectively let a thm oom and instantly refill, threat generation aside. You might as well have halved the mp cost of blms spells for your entire first 2 bars of mp.

Secondly, you say Flare is useless because it is an AoE DoT simply because of Sleepga. To be honest, I'm disgusted to see Sleepga return to the game as it is a complete boring crutch of a CC tool and takes almost no thought strategy or planning to use against a multitude of mobs.

Burst's long CD does bother me but I am going to assume Convert's CD is very similar, and Burst is meant to be used after Convert to maximize damage.

You state it's stupid for Blm to be able to use Second Wind, but I can easily whack Ifrit in phase 1 to build my TP up even without Invigorate, and you have access to Quelling Strike off Archer which will reduce the threat off your nuke and give you some TP.


This community is going to have to buck up and start thinking outside of the heavily crutched box it's been use to in this game for a while. You won't have 8 emergency "oops" battle rez's anymore. You won't have every class with cure and second wind on their bar. You won't have Paladins with Sanguine Rite, or for that matter Black Mages than can AoE it onto the tank. And you know what? That makes the game harder and more fun, something people keep complaining they want.

People need to realize the day of "endure through the damage" is coming to an end and the days of "avoid the damage" have arrived. If you are dieing to damage, you need to stop standing in things, taking hate, standing still and not kiting a moogle, etc. As a DD you don't need to be healing yourself all the time, and if you're taking damage from anything other than an arena-wide AoE, you likely have no excuse other than you messed up.

Little Concerned but will have to wait and see how it all pans out.

my concerns are priamrily AF will be a piece of cake to get thus killing the disciples of the hand off pretty much entirely.

and that classes will be frowned upon for group stuff. i dont want to see my conjurer pressured into a whm job if i can heal just as well on conjurer and bam out some nukes at the same time

and i like archer for dd i dont much care for support in any form so i have no real interest in bard. i see my archer as a ranger style pure dd machine. i dont want to see a situation where i cant go to this dungeon or that dungeon unless my archer is a bard or my conj is a whm. thus getting pressured into specific roles much as jobs did in xi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riaayo

This community is going to have to buck up and start thinking outside of the heavily crutched box it's been use to in this game for a while. You won't have 8 emergency "oops" battle rez's anymore. You won't have every class with cure and second wind on their bar. You won't have Paladins with Sanguine Rite, or for that matter Black Mages than can AoE it onto the tank. And you know what? That makes the game harder and more fun, something people keep complaining they want.

People need to realize the day of "endure through the damage" is coming to an end and the days of "avoid the damage" have arrived. If you are dieing to damage, you need to stop standing in things, taking hate, standing still and not kiting a moogle, etc. As a DD you don't need to be healing yourself all the time, and if you're taking damage from anything other than an arena-wide AoE, you likely have no excuse other than you messed up.

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The community has been handicapped for a long time now so the closer we are to losing our crutches the more the change is making people nervous.

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Originally Posted by Riaayo

Firstly I would like to point out you mention complaining about spell cost in 1.20 but then say Black Mage is no better than Thm, despite having convert which will effectively let a thm oom and instantly refill, threat generation aside. You might as well have halved the mp cost of blms spells for your entire first 2 bars of mp.

Secondly, you say Flare is useless because it is an AoE DoT simply because of Sleepga. To be honest, I'm disgusted to see Sleepga return to the game as it is a complete boring crutch of a CC tool and takes almost no thought strategy or planning to use against a multitude of mobs.

Burst's long CD does bother me but I am going to assume Convert's CD is very similar, and Burst is meant to be used after Convert to maximize damage.

You state it's stupid for Blm to be able to use Second Wind, but I can easily whack Ifrit in phase 1 to build my TP up even without Invigorate, and you have access to Quelling Strike off Archer which will reduce the threat off your nuke and give you some TP.


This community is going to have to buck up and start thinking outside of the heavily crutched box it's been use to in this game for a while. You won't have 8 emergency "oops" battle rez's anymore. You won't have every class with cure and second wind on their bar. You won't have Paladins with Sanguine Rite, or for that matter Black Mages than can AoE it onto the tank. And you know what? That makes the game harder and more fun, something people keep complaining they want.

People need to realize the day of "endure through the damage" is coming to an end and the days of "avoid the damage" have arrived. If you are dieing to damage, you need to stop standing in things, taking hate, standing still and not kiting a moogle, etc. As a DD you don't need to be healing yourself all the time, and if you're taking damage from anything other than an arena-wide AoE, you likely have no excuse other than you messed up.

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Convert is nothing. It's the exaltation we should have kept. My complaint is that from the video that being Black Mage adds no damage to spell damage. I am not sure of how long the convert cooldown will be, if it's 10 minutes then all we got is a gimped version exaltation back. How is it gimped you might ask, uh you give up health to get 75% of you mp, where exaltation was the same amount without HP loss.

If convert does generate massive hate like it did in FFXI, using burst after, you are probably going to die. Alosi if Ancient magic spells share the same timer as before, then why use burst at all!? Why use it when you can convert then use freeze and lose enmity, and do more damage over time. Of course if convert doesn't generate any hate hen yes, burst would be more useful.


Yes, I didn't know quelling strike is useful for spells to generate tp. I thought if you couldn't use invigorate what good is going up to ifrit and smacking him for tp. Let's say for worst case scenario Ifrits at 25% health left, and you get caught by 1 eruption and live and have no tp for second wind. Healer has to stay focused on the tank, and you didn't have quelling strike/invigorate? But since quelling does work, that argue is out the window.

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

You don't think there's risk in being melee (e.g., jobs that wear heavy-ish armor) - in restricting yourself to only being able to do damage in close proximity? A melee player could say the same thing: That they find it unfair that mages can pump damage, CC, and debuffs all while being at a safe distance to avoid almost all damage period. This whole "risk/reward" you speak of doesn't just apply to mages; there's risk in melee as well, but just different kinds and different flavors.

Melee have to be in proximity to almost all forms of damage that mobs can spew out, otherwise they won't be able to do any damage at all. Take for example the Kirin fight in XI - if a melee gets/remains to close they're going to get fayced by his huge AoE spell (think it was Aeroga IV - I forget). Perhaps there are better examples, but I think that's simple enough to get the gist. So there's a risk involved just to be able to whip out some WSs on him. Mages on the other hand can remain at a safe distance at all times all while being able to do burst damage at whatever pace they choose (for the most part). Also, as mages have to manage their MP, melee have to manage their TP and use it just as accordingly as mages use their MP pool.

But regardless, I could go on an on about the trade offs between melee vs. mages, but when it all boils down it's all about what can effectively damage the mob during fights. Some fights the mob is too dangerous for anyone to stay at close proximity (and at times, even the tank), and so this is perhaps when mages (and ranged, such as Archers/Rangers/etc.) shine; whereas other fights the mob is so resistant to magic that the only thing that'll really damage it is a blunt weapon across its fayce.

And I'm surprised you think that - honestly; that mages by virtue of being "mages" should somehow always... *magically* (pun intended)... be top DD on average regardless of the fight. I mean, XI had loads of mobs that were highly resistant to magic, to the point where melee were forced to SC just so the mages could get a bump in accuracy and damage so they were sitting there like useless spots in the alliance (which, IMO, was great tactics - to have BLM burst on SC w/e possible).

That one job should always be top overall regardless of the situation is tantamount to suggesting that this game (or any FF game) should only consist of a tank, a healer, and a party of DD consisting only of JOB-X; it's foolishly audacious.

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And this whole statement you made is the reason why we have class-stacking, this is what happens when developers do it another way.


Wizards were the power-house of the casters, every other caster were pet classes, except alchemist. It had really good buffs and had potion (ammo) and really good debuffs. The petters could steal do good damage, not as high as wizards, but you could have the pet tank one mob while the master can attack another. Clerics were hysterically awesome at killing undeads, which it had several raid areas with undead.

Sir, look up Everquest Online Adventures for the ps2. Yes the game is very old, but it will show you how well class balance was in that game. Every single class was useful, you could take any class anywhere on a raid.

You can't have two casters, one being a healer with heavy armor that can do roughly the same damage as the one who is only a damage dealer with cloth armor and less health. Or melees, which positioned correctly have just as little threat to some enemies as casters to being hit. Lancers against Ifrit for example, or archers to moogles. Anyone who times the self-explosions or learns a mobs pattern can easily avoid the damage.

When crap hits the fans let's say and the paladin dies. The mob will go after whoever does the most damage. Who is more likely to live long enough for one healer to spam heal while the other revives the tank? Sure as hell won't be Black mage/thaumaturge with it's low defense and hp. Look at mister melee warrior who can dps and possibly tank taking several hits not dying in 1 to 2 hits.

Or Mr. Pugilist/Monk who can evade some hits while the tank is getting back up.

I am sure Lancer can do it to if someone tried hard enough.

No class that can take a hit should ever exceed the one that can't take the hit. It's called Balance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Convert is nothing. It's the exaltation we should have kept. My complaint is that from the video that being Black Mage adds no damage to spell damage. I am not sure of how long the convert cooldown will be, if it's 10 minutes then all we got is a gimped version exaltation back. How is it gimped you might ask, uh you give up health to get 75% of you mp, where exaltation was the same amount without HP loss.

If convert does generate massive hate like it did in FFXI, using burst after, you are probably going to die. Alosi if Ancient magic spells share the same timer as before, then why use burst at all!? Why use it when you can convert then use freeze and lose enmity, and do more damage over time. Of course if convert doesn't generate any hate hen yes, burst would be more useful.


Yes, I didn't know quelling strike is useful for spells to generate tp. I thought if you couldn't use invigorate what good is going up to ifrit and smacking him for tp. Let's say for worst case scenario Ifrits at 25% health left, and you get caught by 1 eruption and live and have no tp for second wind. Healer has to stay focused on the tank, and you didn't have quelling strike/invigorate? But since quelling does work, that argue is out the window.

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Did you check the spells whm gets? Regen will be great for situations like the one you mentioned. Also, we'll have bards that act as support in the group so they can throw small cures when necessary to people that mess up. Paladins also get an ability that puts a heal over time on all party members in range when a heal is casted on the paladin. This means you don't have to worry about healing yourself. Just focus on DDing and avoiding mechanics.

I don't remember convert pulling too much hate besides the heal you had to put on yourself. I quit during ToAU so if they changed it after that then that sucks. If you are referring to the heal hate, you can just do necrogenesis > quelling strike > convert > burst for damage and a big heal on yourself. Obviously you have to watch your hate, but i mean it's about the same hate as any regular nuke.

And yea... just because blms don't do more damage per spell than thm doesn't mean they don't do more damage total.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

And this whole statement you made is the reason why we have class-stacking, this is what happens when developers do it another way.


Wizards were the power-house of the casters, every other caster were pet classes, except alchemist. It had really good buffs and had potion (ammo) and really good debuffs. The petters could steal do good damage, not as high as wizards, but you could have the pet tank one mob while the master can attack another. Clerics were hysterically awesome at killing undeads, which it had several raid areas with undead.

Sir, look up Everquest Online Adventures for the ps2. Yes the game is very old, but it will show you how well class balance was in that game. Every single class was useful, you could take any class anywhere on a raid.

You can't have two casters, one being a healer with heavy armor that can do roughly the same damage as the one who is only a damage dealer with cloth armor and less health. Or melees, which positioned correctly have just as little threat to some enemies as casters to being hit. Lancers against Ifrit for example, or archers to moogles. Anyone who times the self-explosions or learns a mobs pattern can easily avoid the damage.

When crap hits the fans let's say and the paladin dies. The mob will go after whoever does the most damage. Who is more likely to live long enough for one healer to spam heal while the other revives the tank? Sure as hell won't be Black mage/thaumaturge with it's low defense and hp. Look at mister melee warrior who can dps and possibly tank taking several hits not dying in 1 to 2 hits.

Or Mr. Pugilist/Monk who can evade some hits while the tank is getting back up.

I am sure Lancer can do it to if someone tried hard enough.

No class that can take a hit should ever exceed the one that can't take the hit. It's called Balance.

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You're right, we're all wrong.

FFXIV needs to be more like some non-FF PS2 game.

All is well. Then end.


(For the inept, this is the definition of sarcasm...)

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

You're right, we're all wrong.

FFXIV needs to be more like some non-FF PS2 game.

All is well. Then end.

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It needs battles that can be fun, and not be so class-stack heavy.

It had a fight where you have to position behind a rock to avoid an environmental damage called lava splash and to avoid a dragons fire breath damage. That was cool, this game tries to do and it fails miserably at it.

Where as I see pugs or archer get the shaft on the ifrit fight.

Guys.. just give it up.. he's just "1" person out of a gazillion people that do not agree with him.. just don't respond in this thread so it can die.. You tried to get him to understand certain things but he just won't agree.. he's in denile, until 1.21 and proves him otherwise ( or he just won't sit well with him because he can do more class-wise which is fine) then so be it.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Guys.. just give it up.. he's just "1" person out of a gazillion people that do not agree with him.. just don't respond in this thread so it can die.. You tried to get him to understand certain things but he just won't agree.. he's in denile, until 1.21 and proves him otherwise ( or he just won't sit well with him because he can do more class-wise which is fine) then so be it.

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I do understand, when people tells me somethign I answer back.

I agreed that Quelling Strike is a useful way of gaining Tp.

I agreed that I do need to wait.

I said I would apologize if I am wrong.

And you don't have to pst in this thread if you don't want to.

Though there are things unanswered that should be answered now so I can prepare for it.

Why add jobs if classes can still do it better, if something this big or claiming to be large adds nothing to the game? What does that say about 2.0.

All a developer or rep has to say is, "yes the damage will increase, or mp cost is cut. The video doesn't represent what the job will do." or They can say I am wrong, and I will apologize, and they can tell me there will be no large increase to damage, or Mp cost.

Cause I'll get more pissed that I waited just like everyone else, which was promised in the summer time, waited till march 9. That you and I have to pay for to find out, if it's good or not. And Something patch claiming to be the largest adds nothing to the classes besides a friggen title???

We lost abilities to gain them back but some of them still less useful then other.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I do understand, when people tells me somethign I answer back.

I agreed that Quelling Strike is a useful way of gaining Tp.

I agreed that I do need to wait.

I said I would apologize if I am wrong.

And you don't have to pst in this thread if you don't want to.

Though there are things unanswered that should be answered now so I can prepare for it.

Why add jobs if classes can still do it better, if something this big or claiming to be large adds nothing to the game? What does that say about 2.0.

All a developer or rep has to say is, "yes the damage will increase, or mp cost is cut. The video doesn't represent what the job will do." or They can say I am wrong, and I will apologize, and they can tell me there will be no large increase to damage, or Mp cost.

Cause I'll get more pissed that I waited just like everyone else, which was promised in the summer time, waited till march 9. That you and I have to pay for to find out, if it's good or not. And Something patch claiming to be the largest adds nothing to the classes besides a friggen title???

We lost abilities to gain them back but some of them still less useful then other.

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You sir.. don't know the definition of jobs >.>

You "do" need to wait.. yet this thread of yours continues to exist?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

You sir.. don't know the definition of jobs >.>

You "do" need to wait.. yet this thread of yours continues to exist?

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Agreed. He's looking at it all wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I do understand, when people tells me somethign I answer back.

I agreed that Quelling Strike is a useful way of gaining Tp.

I agreed that I do need to wait.

I said I would apologize if I am wrong.

And you don't have to pst in this thread if you don't want to.

Though there are things unanswered that should be answered now so I can prepare for it.

Why add jobs if classes can still do it better, if something this big or claiming to be large adds nothing to the game? What does that say about 2.0.

All a developer or rep has to say is, "yes the damage will increase, or mp cost is cut. The video doesn't represent what the job will do." or They can say I am wrong, and I will apologize, and they can tell me there will be no large increase to damage, or Mp cost.

Cause I'll get more pissed that I waited just like everyone else, which was promised in the summer time, waited till march 9. That you and I have to pay for to find out, if it's good or not. And Something patch claiming to be the largest adds nothing to the classes besides a friggen title???

We lost abilities to gain them back but some of them still less useful then other.

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I think you are supposed to look at it from a PS3 players standpoint. You cannot say in regards to thm "yeah well, we used to have ancient magic back in the day but they took that away from us and then gave it back in the form of blackmage post pay to play" because new PS3 players aren't going to care. To a new player Jobs will appear as a progression that unlocks new gear and abilities that allow that class to specialize itself as a specific role.

Essentially you sacrifice 5 Cross Class Abilities (CCA's) for 5 Job Specific Abilities (JSA's) and get to wear Artifact Armor. On top of that your use of CCA's are restricted to the sub classes required to unlock the Job Specific Quest.

So in the end all we can hope for is that Artifact Armor and JSA's enable that job to better fulfil it's designated role and do it more efficiently than som Class with 2x melded gear. This shouldn't necesarilly translate to MOAR DMG or LESS MP but rather, Paladin should be a better tank than Gladiator (higher defense, higher enmity, less dmg dealt, better heals?) in the same sense that White Mage should be a better healer than Conjurer and so on.

Yes, you could speculate that in the end player X may be better with Class Y than player Z with Job Y, but the real question is whether or not the Role ABC is better fulfilled by player X using Class Y or Job Y.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

You sir.. don't know the definition of jobs >.>

You "do" need to wait.. yet this thread of yours continues to exist?

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Because people leave comments and I respond to it so I don't seem more rude.

people cried and cried about lack of class/role identity, so they cleaned it up a little. jobs only further individualize each role's indentity. now people are crying that jobs are too specific and lack utility, or that they don't make the class OMG UBERLEET.

this happens with every single patch, no matter what is added or taken away. people hate it, square changes it. whatever square changes it to, people hate. they can't win either way and i'm honestly getting completely sick of reading about it.

this community is god damned awful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Why add jobs if classes can still do it better, if something this big or claiming to be large adds nothing to the game? What does that say about 2.0.

All a developer or rep has to say is, "yes the damage will increase, or mp cost is cut. The video doesn't represent what the job will do."

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The thing is, and once again I'm posting in this thread to say the exact same thing as before, you are assuming a lot of things over a patch not yet released and the only "evidence" you have is a video that wasn't even meant to showcase jobs. That's why people are "giving up" this discussion; you keep hammering at something that isn't there.

Also, jobs won't change anything at all? Have you even read the several threads where people are already discussing from builds to strategies that are possible just by combining the cross class abilities with the new job abilities? Or the several posters showing how jobs - might - make some things a bit "harder" while at the same providing good rewards for those who plan around a bit more? Or even the fact that you can, if you so choose, still use a class and that will also surely be part of some strategies? Have you considered the impact of AF armor over stats? Have you experienced the new content with the new jobs and determined exactly how THM deals more / same damage than BLM and jobs are unbalanced and broken and useless and whatever other claims you made?

Sorry, but you are panicking over an unrelated video and a few skills you haven't even seen in action. Discussion is good and all, but we are discussing without any basis at all. I do agree that SE could have shown more information about jobs, and an actual video showcasing exactly how jobs will change our stats.

But, in the end, everyone in this thread, including me, can be completely wrong, and will have to wait until Friday to find it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Sir, look up Everquest Online Adventures for the ps2. Yes the game is very old, but it will show you how well class balance was in that game. Every single class was useful, you could take any class anywhere on a raid.

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Why do you say everyything past tense? Its a 10 year old MMO. The first one out on PS2, and was PS2 only. BUT, its still alive. Servers are still active. But, yeah as far as end game stuff, its probably one of the most balanced MMOs I have ever played.

In my opinion, that because of the "class balancing" process they took. EQOA put a dev in charge of every class. Gave us the name of the devs and there respective class. The dev posted daily on the specific class thread. Player feed back and dev communication was literally a multi-daily process. It lasted for months. Ahh how I remember the PMs with Deamaas about issues with the bard charm in that game.

In my pinion, what allowed them to balance so well came down to several issues. Most important, was that they decided to spend 3-4 month focused on class balancing. Its the decision to sit down and do it that got it done. They gave full disclosure. We had access to all the spell information. When they adjusted "Anthem on Conquest" they released a good deatail, about it.

Effect:

Increase STR by 75 ; Increase 5% based on CHA
Increase DEX by 75 ; Increase 5% based on CHA

Class:Bard, level 60
Casting Time:2s
Recast:5s
Power Cost:720
Scope:Group
Duration:2 minutes
Resist:Arcane
AoE Radius:20
Hate Rating:0

Purchase of Anthemic Crecendo 5 increases the stamina mod to 20% and makes it an AoE
spell.

Thus telling you all you needed to know about the ability, and allowing you to test its over all feel and effect and debate it on the forums, with a Dev active and part of the debate.

All and al, I have to agree, that FFXIV has definently got one of the more serious balancing issues of MMOs out there at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

people cried and cried about lack of class/role identity, so they cleaned it up a little. jobs only further individualize each role's indentity. now people are crying that jobs are too specific and lack utility, or that they don't make the class OMG UBERLEET.

this happens with every single patch, no matter what is added or taken away. people hate it, square changes it. whatever square changes it to, people hate. they can't win either way and i'm honestly getting completely sick of reading about it.

this community is god damned awful.

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Well duh captain obvious.

There are players with all kinds of perspectives and opinion out there. When changes they prefere are occuring, they sit back quietly and allow the changes that they feel are benifits to role in. All the while, the indiveduals on the opposite side of the spectrum raise all the debates and discussions because they feel the current sysem and its changes are bad from there perspective.

When they change the base content and flip it around, the opposite occurs. Now, the before debaters and issue takers, are getting things changed in the manner they prefere, thus they are now quietly sitting back and accepting what they feel ar posotive changes. All the while, the previously quiet group, now feeling the tides turn, step up to debate, argue and complain.

This does not make the community bad, it only displayed how oppinions are divided as well as displays the various sides and perspectives. As it always has from long before your existance, untill now, and always will, long after your gone. The only difference displayed here is your displaying of yout ignorance to that truth, by posting about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

people cried and cried about lack of class/role identity, so they cleaned it up a little. jobs only further individualize each role's indentity. now people are crying that jobs are too specific and lack utility, or that they don't make the class OMG UBERLEET.

this happens with every single patch, no matter what is added or taken away. people hate it, square changes it. whatever square changes it to, people hate. they can't win either way and i'm honestly getting completely sick of reading about it.

this community is god damned awful.

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My only complaints are ever about damage, when the game first came out when cjn had all the elemental spells it sucked, just like thaumaturge too, until you got shadowsear.

They took away the spells and I was ok with that since, you know, the ones that remained were powered up. Now they are giving us some abilities back, that some just generally suck. And you are all ok with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

people cried and cried about lack of class/role identity, so they cleaned it up a little. jobs only further individualize each role's indentity. now people are crying that jobs are too specific and lack utility, or that they don't make the class OMG UBERLEET.

this happens with every single patch, no matter what is added or taken away. people hate it, square changes it. whatever square changes it to, people hate. they can't win either way and i'm honestly getting completely sick of reading about it.

this community is god damned awful.

---

you do realize that if you are sick of listening to people give feedback, their opinions, or general concerns on a forum that is designed just for that then there's an x on your top right you can use.

the ones that complained originally are the groups that were upset with the original systems. the ones that were happy with the original systems were quietly enjoying the game and did not post in here. changes made the first group happy and the group that was quietly playing the game are now in stating opposing views because now that is the group unhappy. they are completely different groups of people that have opposite views. what makes one group happy makes the other unhappy. not everyone has the exact same opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Why do you say everyything past tense? Its a 10 year old MMO. The first one out on PS2, and was PS2 only. BUT, its still alive. Servers are still active. But, yeah as far as end game stuff, its probably one of the most balanced MMOs I have ever played.

In my opinion, that because of the "class balancing" process they took. EQOA put a dev in charge of every class. Gave us the name of the devs and there respective class. The dev posted daily on the specific class thread. Player feed back and dev communication was literally a multi-daily process. It lasted for months. Ahh how I remember the PMs with Deamaas about issues with the bard charm in that game.

In my pinion, what allowed them to balance so well came down to several issues. Most important, was that they decided to spend 3-4 month focused on class balancing. Its the decision to sit down and do it that got it done. They gave full disclosure. We had access to all the spell information. When they adjusted "Anthem on Conquest" they released a good deatail, about it.

Effect:

Increase STR by 75 ; Increase 5% based on CHA
Increase DEX by 75 ; Increase 5% based on CHA

Class:Bard, level 60
Casting Time:2s
Recast:5s
Power Cost:720
Scope:Group
Duration:2 minutes
Resist:Arcane
AoE Radius:20
Hate Rating:0

Purchase of Anthemic Crecendo 5 increases the stamina mod to 20% and makes it an AoE
spell.

Thus telling you all you needed to know about the ability, and allowing you to test its over all feel and effect and debate it on the forums, with a Dev active and part of the debate.

All and al, I have to agree, that FFXIV has definently got one of the more serious balancing issues of MMOs out there at the moment.

---

Unfortunately, my friend got an email saying it's finally going to be shutdown soon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I agreed that I do need to wait.

Though there are things unanswered that should be answered now so I can prepare for it.

Why add jobs if classes can still do it better, if something this big or claiming to be large adds nothing to the game? What does that say about 2.0.

All a developer or rep has to say is, "yes the damage will increase, or mp cost is cut. The video doesn't represent what the job will do." or They can say I am wrong, and I will apologize, and they can tell me there will be no large increase to damage, or Mp cost.

Cause I'll get more pissed that I waited just like everyone else, which was promised in the summer time, waited till march 9. That you and I have to pay for to find out, if it's good or not. And Something patch claiming to be the largest adds nothing to the classes besides a friggen title???

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1. Then stop responding with the same thing over and over.

2. They said attributes would be adjusted to make each job shine in their given area.

3. You don't know if classes can do it better which is why you need to wait.

4. The video was made to show how cast interruption works, not how jobs work. The Ifrit preview showed people hitting him for over 140 damage per basic attack. That is certainly not the case upon release.

5. This patch is adding 7 jobs, a total of 35 job quests, 35 pieces of unique armor, 2 lvl50 dungeons, inns, 3 classes worth of recipe revamps, and other things too. You keep jumping to conclusions for no valid reason. Just wait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

My only complaints are ever about damage, when the game first came out when cjn had all the elemental spells it sucked, just like thaumaturge too, until you got shadowsear.

They took away the spells and I was ok with that since, you know, the ones that remained were powered up. Now they are giving us some abilities back, that some just generally suck. And you are all ok with that.

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Wait what abilities are we getting that we had before?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

you do realize that if you are sick of listening to people give feedback, their opinions, or general concerns on a forum that is designed just for that then there's an x on your top right you can use.

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a shining jewel of the awful side of our lovely community emerges, completely unexpectedly, in a complaint thread. amazing!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Now they are giving us some abilities back, that some just generally suck. And you are all ok with that.

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based on what empirical evidence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

people cried and cried about lack of class/role identity, so they cleaned it up a little. jobs only further individualize each role's indentity. now people are crying that jobs are too specific and lack utility, or that they don't make the class OMG UBERLEET.

this happens with every single patch, no matter what is added or taken away. people hate it, square changes it. whatever square changes it to, people hate. they can't win either way and i'm honestly getting completely sick of reading about it.

this community is god damned awful.

---

http://community.zenoss.org/servlet/...uffySecond.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Unfortunately, my friend got an email saying it's finally going to be shutdown soon.

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I know I got it as well.

"Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) is expected to sunset EverQuest Online Adventures on March 29, 2012. SOE will terminate membership/subscription billing for EverQuest Online Adventures on March 1, 2012, but you can continue enjoying the game at no charge through March 29, 2012.

SOE will retain all of the code and data from EverQuest Online Adventures, and will not license or authorize the operation of an EverQuest Online Adventures emulator or fan operated EverQuest Online Adventures server.

you will not have to keep paying for EverQuest Online Adventures. All regular billing for EverQuest Online Adventures will end on March 1, 2012. After this time, you will be able to continue playing the game at no charge (except that Internet fees are your responsibility) until the shutdown date on March 29, 2012.

We will stop all billing for EverQuest Online Adventures on March 1, 2012. For players who have purchased prepaid time via a membership/subscription plan, SOE Game Card or other retail game card that extends the subscription period past February 29, 2012, SOE will provide a pro-rated refund for the time left on the subscription after that date. If a valid credit card is active on your account, any refund will be applied to such credit card. If your account is paid via an SOE Game Card or other retail game card, we will send a check in the refund amount to your current billing address within 90 days after the game ends. Please be sure to update your email and mailing address in your Station Account as this may be critical to the refund process. Please note that billing for All Access Passes will continue after March 1, 2012 and we will not be issuing any refunds for All Access Passes.

All websites and forums associated with EverQuest Online Adventures will be removed after the game shuts down.
We do expect to have a celebration for all EverQuest Online Adventures players, to celebrate the proud history of EverQuest Online Adventures. More details will be forthcoming in a forums post in the near future.
As a gift to current subscribers we will be granting 3 months Gold Membership in both EverQuest and EverQuest II. These Gold memberships will start on Friday, March 16, 2012.Those who already have an EQ or EQII Gold Membership will have 3 months of free time added to their account at the end of their current billing cycle. Those with All Access with get 3 months of free All Access time added on to their current plan."

Truely a sad sad time in MMO history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

a shining jewel of the awful side of our lovely community emerges, completely unexpectedly, in a complaint thread. amazing!



based on what empirical evidence?

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Yeah. Because your crying, whining, and ignorant comment far outshine those of him, or any others you chose to hate for seeing things differently then you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coglin

The only difference displayed here is your displaying of yout ignorance to that truth, by posting about it.

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you want to talk about ignorance? then explain to me how this game can have roughly the same population of english and japanese players, yet the english forum is approaching 10x as many threads as the japanese forum.

but no, you're right. i'm sure dozens of duplicate threads overflowing with 'sky is falling' rhetoric are extremely helpful to devs. lol.

that's not to say they can't glean a few helpful nuggets here and there, but you're completely delusional if you can't see the mountains of absolute shit they have to wade through to find it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Yeah. Because your crying, whining, and ignorant comment far outshine those of him, or any others you chose to hate for seeing things differently then you.

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roleplay a twinkling anime vampire about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

Wait what abilities are we getting that we had before?

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Ancient magic spells. Hopefully they don't all share the 15 minute timer, because before they were removed the first time developers decided to make them all 80 second recasts. So if you casted flare all ancient spells would be on the 80 second timer.

Convert (Gimped Exaltation)

Sleepga (Sleep without aoe toggle)

I don't understand why it is such a crime to ask perfectly reasonable questions based on information the developers have released to us. Some of you guys act like OP is just stomping his feet and saying OMG BLM SUKZ.

Seriously... check yourselves. There is being loyal to a game and then there is blinding defending against any potentially negative comments or concerns having anything to do with the game. Please stop crossing that line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I don't understand why it is such a crime to ask perfectly reasonable questions based on information the developers have released to us. Some of you guys act like OP is just stomping his feet and saying OMG BLM SUKZ.

Seriously... check yourselves. There is being loyal to a game and then there is blinding defending against any potentially negative comments or concerns having anything to do with the game. Please stop crossing that line.

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The OP IS just stomping his feet and saying BLM sucks. It has already been stated that attributes will be changed to further better the given job when the job is equipped. He's basing all of his reactions off of a video that was mainly meant to demonstrate cast interruption. Like I said before, the Ifrit promotion video showed an ARC doing 140 damage with it's base attack which is far from what ARC actually does in the fight.

We have explained that he should wait because the video doesn't mean everything and he continues to worry, and asks for a question that has already been answered. The patch comes out in like 2 days, he can wait and see how BLM is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Ancient magic spells. Hopefully they don't all share the 15 minute timer, because before they were removed the first time developers decided to make them all 80 second recasts. So if you casted flare all ancient spells would be on the 80 second timer.

Convert (Gimped Exaltation)

Sleepga (Sleep without aoe toggle)

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Exaltation was entirely broken before, so this new Convert should hopefully fix that. Sleepga I'll give you. Ancient magic has different effects and even animations now. They wouldn't make it a 15min recast without good reason. Think of these new 15min abilities like the 2hr's of XI. 15min is much better than 2hr.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

Ancient magic spells. Hopefully they don't all share the 15 minute timer, because before they were removed the first time developers decided to make them all 80 second recasts. So if you casted flare all ancient spells would be on the 80 second timer.

Convert (Gimped Exaltation)

Sleepga (Sleep without aoe toggle)

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I guess you can say they're giving them back to us, but to a very different job and to a very different game. You can't really expect them to give them back to us the way it was because they wouldn't fit; the game has changed that much. I wouldn't even call them gimped either. It's more like they're changed to fit the game better. I view them more as completely new skills to the game with the same name of skills they used in previous final fantasies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Some of you guys act like OP is just stomping his feet and saying OMG BLM SUKZ.

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That's what he's saying in a lot of his posts lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shiggysonson

That's what he's saying in a lot of his posts lol.

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Then you aren't reading them. Wish I could say I was shocked.

The OP is a complaint based on very questionable evidence and thus pointless until the patch hits and we all try it out.

That is all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The OP is a complaint based on very questionable evidence and thus pointless until the patch hits and we all try it out.

That is all.

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Summary of my statement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The OP is a complaint based on very questionable evidence and thus pointless until the patch hits and we all try it out.

That is all.

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that is called voicing a concern. giving feedback is for after it goes into the game. the thing is he voices a concern based off of questionable evidence is better than the people disputing his concerns with zero evidence. he has a right to voice his concerns. they may be wrong once the patch hits, but it is nice to see where people have concerns so they can be tested, disputed, and refuted after the items are brought into the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The OP is a complaint based on very questionable evidence and thus pointless until the patch hits and we all try it out.

That is all.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isaaru

Summary of my statement.

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I really feel bad for you guys because you're not even able to see how truly sad your point of view is. It was people like you that were the people in beta telling the rest of us "It's only beta, wait and see."

and then "We still have a few weeks before release, wait and see."

and then "Its only just been released, wait and see."

and then "Its only been two months since release, wait and see."

etc, etc.