We interrupt your current server woes to talk about casting

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Its pretty common in MMOs that aren't a decade old.

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I don't mind not being able to run and cast...
I just see a problem with not being able to cast for 2 seconds after you start running unless you press a special "Stop" button

The point isn't DID other games find this acceptable. The question is "Why is this acceptable?"

Other games have done away with this archaic requirement on casters. Some never followed this practice at all.

Im legitimately asking what greater gain comes from limiting mage mobility, not asking for replies stating: "that's just how its always been so accept it"

Thats the exact mentality that restricts the evolved improvement of this genre.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

The point isn't DID other games find this acceptable. The question is "Why is this acceptable?"

Other games have done away with this archaic requirement on casters. Some never followed this practice at all.

Im legitimately asking what greater gain comes from limiting mage mobility, not asking for replies stating: "that's just how its always been so accept it"

Thats the exact mentality that restricts the evolved improvement of this genre.

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the majority of the support for it comes from dd's if you look at the replies. the majority that are worried about the change are the actual people that play the classes it will directly impact. if you asked these forums would you bo ok if the black mage had one spell that they casted repeatedly as a nuke and a white mage had no other ability besides a heal then the majority here would support this change.

the dd's think that mages only do one single thing so as far as they care as long as that one thing is done they think anything else is wasted.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I don't mind not being able to run and cast...
I just see a problem with not being able to cast for 2 seconds after you start running unless you press a special "Stop" button

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Im not losing sleep over it either: but why does emphasis solely get put on the player?

Wouldn't it be more challenging and engaging to battle a mob that requires all party members to react with increased mobility as opposed to a mob that is less interesting because the player is less capable of mimic'ing its agility or timing?

My point is: why are we reverse engineering Mob AI? Mobs should be feared, not "tolerated" with passable archaic substitutes that where designed decades ago when MMOs were severely limited in capability due to hardware and software limits.

I know in the end we will all eat the dinner SE cooked us because we had few better alternatives: but this sort of creative denial is demeaning, especially to ppl who expect next gen games to provide next gen experiences and difficulty.

Im still wondering why mages are being made static.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Im not losing sleep over it either: but why does emphasis solely get put on the player?

Wouldn't it be more challenging and engaging to battle a mob that requires all party members to react with increased mobility as opposed to a mob that is less interesting because the player is less capable of mimic'ing its agility or timing?

My point is: why are we reverse engineering Mob AI? Mobs should be feared, not "tolerated" with passable archaic substitutes that where designed decades ago when MMOs were severely limited in capability due to hardware and software limits.

I know in the end we will all eat the dinner SE cooked us because we had few better alternatives: but this sort of creative denial is demeaning, especially to ppl who expect next gen games to provide next gen experiences and difficulty.

Im still wondering why mages are being made static.

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Yea... I didn't buy the whole "Its to balance PVP" argument" either....

Just convert the servers and submit TO THE CLOUD!!!

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the dd's think that mages only do one single thing so as far as they care as long as that one thing is done they think anything else is wasted.

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Understandable. My main is Mage. I know from personal experience we mages are expected to be "everywhere at once".

DDs bitch when they get animation locked in Ifrit and plumes eat them alive.

Well anyone who is pro choice for the way mages are getting screwed over: matters have possibly been further complicated unnecessarily.

I will be sorely disappointed if mages become maniquines whilst the rest of the party gets to strategically evade the Boss whilst damaging.

Lol it will be amusing thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Understandable. My main is Mage. I know from personal experience we mages are expected to be "everywhere at once".

DDs bitch when they get animation locked in Ifrit and plumes eat them alive.

Well anyone who is pro choice for the way mages are getting screwed over: matters have possibly been further complicated unnecessarily.

I will be sorely disappointed if mages become maniquines whilst the rest of the party gets to strategically evade the Boss whilst damaging.

Lol it will be amusing thats for sure.

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the thing i always found funny about that was a lancer getting animation locked and hit by an eruption was accepted, but if a mage got stuck in casting it was a flame fest on the mages. they have a short animation lock by comparison to a mage cast time, but they were more willing to take it if a dd made the mistake.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Yea... I didn't buy the whole "Its to balance PVP" argument" either....

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Yeah...

Using "Balancing PVP" to cover up the fact that instead of improving and diversifying battle mechanics SE is instead equalizing mage and DD mobility.

Smart Idea of the Day re-enactment: So instead of fixing the issue how about we just put some scooby doo bandaids over the gaping wound to distract everyone's attention from the blood profusely spilling out of the wound! We'll call it PVP Balancing. Ppl will believe us because they have no other option. I mean we own the franchise... We're untouchable, right?

Something tells me either too many hands are in the headquarters cookie jar or someone bit off more steak than they can chew so now they're spitting it in a napkin to hide under the table until a time when no one is watching and said steak can be thrown away.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

that is THE BIGGEST question I've had since launch...
Is your gameplay experience (and by that I mean lag) vastly different depending on what part of the world you're in?

I really just want to pack up all of my LS and fly to Japan to do a couple Ifrit/moogle runs and see if we notice a huge difference
I LOVE playing with people from all over the world.. Japanese, EU, even Australian players (Just messin with ya Sophia)
I really do... but the gameplay has to take priority
It just has to...
If the game is drastically different due to lag from being in a different part of the world... then its not going to encourage global unity... It's going to further separate and in many cases alienate the different groups

tl;dr Priority 1: as little lag as possible for everyone. Priority 2: A multilingual, multicultural, global experience

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I played FFXI when I lived in Japan, and I played it back in the U.S. No noticeable difference in terms of lag. I also played WoW in English from Japan. On the WoW client I could actually check my latency. I remember it being higher than that of my friend who was playing in the U.S., but it was still in the green. Again, I saw no noticeable impact on gameplay.

When I tried playing Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix online...THEN I noticed the effects of latency. But as for FFXI...well, it was as slow in Japan as it was in the U.S. The delay in taking out your weapon, etc was present in the client itself. But having a smooth MMO experience playing on servers on the other side of the world is definitely possible: U.S. WoW is snappy even when playing from Japan.

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Originally Posted by Rane

Hello. I thought I should point out that there was a mistake in the translation. Yoshida (as well as the person he quotes) refers to a 0.3 second packet transmission interval. The English translation says 3 seconds, which is ten times as long as Yoshida said.

It seems like this was a simple oversight in the translation process, but in terms of latency, three seconds and three tenths of a second are pretty different. If possible, would one of the reps mind editing the post before more people get the wrong idea about how long it is taking for our computers to talk to the server?

Thanks! :)

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Thank you for pointing that out Rane! I'm sorry that we forgot the "." in the translation, it has been corrected!

Apologies if this worried anyone!

Correct:

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I seem to recall there being some kind of .3 second delay arising from the server for movement canceling and recasting lag.

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The .3 seconds you mentioned is the delay of movement packet delivery. (The explanation is filled with jargon and tech talk so I won’t write anymore than this.)

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

Im legitimately asking what greater gain comes from limiting mage mobility

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In all honesty, I was guessing that SE added the whole can't cast while movin thing, to balance the DoM out to the situations of the animation lock that the DoW have.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Thank you for pointing that out Rane! I'm sorry that we forgot the "." in the translation, it has been corrected!

Apologies if this worried anyone!

Correct:

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Hey thanks very much for clarifying that! Good information indeed.

However, it still doesn't answer why Melees and Mages must pause to execute abilities/spells or why it was chosen for implementation.

Is there a far superior reasoning beyond current comprehension that will combine with elements only available via 2.0 that will make this combat mechanism more palatable?

What's the actual future of combat?

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Originally Posted by Coglin

In all honesty, I was guessing that SE added the whole can't cast while movin thing, to balance the DoM out to the situations of the animation lock that the DoW have.

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That plausibility was accounted for.

Iit has been asked further into this thread several times by myself and others:

Why give the DoM and DoW locks at all?

Im starting to think its a RP "immersion destroyer" thing lmao!

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

Thank you for pointing that out Rane! I'm sorry that we forgot the "." in the translation, it has been corrected!

Apologies if this worried anyone!

Correct:

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No problem! Thanks for the correction. :)

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

The point isn't DID other games find this acceptable. The question is "Why is this acceptable?"

Other games have done away with this archaic requirement on casters. Some never followed this practice at all.

Im legitimately asking what greater gain comes from limiting mage mobility, not asking for replies stating: "that's just how its always been so accept it"

Thats the exact mentality that restricts the evolved improvement of this genre.

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Archaic really? It is a video game. The mechanics and game rules are entirely up to the developer. You talk as if some new technology was invented that allowed casters to move while casting. And it isn't just the result of some people catering to lazy gamers like yourselves demanding they make everything more simplistic.

"Archaic" lol

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Archaic really? It is a video game. The mechanics and game rules are entirely up to the developer. You talk as if some new technology was invented that allowed casters to move while casting.

"Archaic" lol

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Shows what you know... the new 2.0 engine will make this game playable on a commodore 64

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Originally Posted by Hulan

For those wondering why it is that SE seemingly can't make their game as responsive or as fast as Blizzard or Trion, it may be worth mentioning the obvious again. That being, this is a game served from Japan. For better or worse, any problem that Blizzard has to deal with downstream is going to be compounded orders of magnitude worse for SE servers.

Yoshi-P is saying that they can do better than what they have right now, but light only travels so fast. FFXI handled it by fundamentally designing the game around a 2-3 second delay (long casting times and relatively slow movement obscured the fact that things you saw on your screen were actually 2-3 seconds off everyone else). For whatever reason, FFXIV was not.

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Well even from Europe I am getting 300 ms latency, this isn't much, what the problem is currently is the server is too slow to process everything causing extra latency.
(for what its worth I can play WoW and LOTRO both with more than 300 ms of latency)

When we move to a better server there is no reason why this problem should exist any longer.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

The .3 seconds you mentioned is the delay of movement packet delivery. (The explanation is filled with jargon and tech talk so I won’t write anymore than this.)

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Hmmm seriously ??

I really think seeing as the 2.0 client has a working battle system they should disclose how the future battle system will work, especially in regards to animation lock.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

Archaic really? It is a video game. The mechanics and game rules are entirely up to the developer. You talk as if some new technology was invented that allowed casters to move while casting. And it isn't just the result of some people catering to lazy gamers like yourselves demanding they make everything more simplistic.

"Archaic" lol

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I hope you got a kick out of being a smartass to me because it was definitely necessary in order to properly prove your altruistic point. (that's for implying im lazy, eye for an eye)

Also i never insinuated it was a "new technology". However, i doubt you read but a snippet of what anyone said before pompously embarking on a journey to berate me for no ethical or logical reason.

How is players being more mobile and thus mobs being more mobile "catering to lazy gamers" and "simpler"?

Anyway i know you're only pressing my buttons, to which i could give 2 shits less about.

Mobility does not equate to simplicity nor does it insinuate laziness.

Restricting ppls movement doesnt serve to enhance combat elements. Allowing for real time action based combinatorial abilities which work seemlessly with movement would however seem more enticing.

Idc if SE bites on these ideas or not: as long as ffxiv ends up with palatable gameplay.

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Originally Posted by AreeyaJaidee

I hope you got a kick out of being a smartass to me because it was definitely necessary in order to properly prove your altruistic point. (that's for implying im lazy, eye for an eye)

Also i never insinuated it was a "new technology". However, i doubt you read but a snippet of what anyone said before pompously embarking on a journey to berate me for no ethical or logical reason.

How is players being more mobile and thus mobs being more mobile "catering to lazy gamers" and "simpler"?

Anyway i know you're only pressing my buttons, to which i could give 2 shits less about.

Mobility does not equate to simplicity nor does it insinuate laziness.

Restricting ppls movement doesnt serve to enhance combat elements. Allowing for real time action based combinatorial abilities which work seemlessly with movement would however seem more enticing.

Idc if SE bites on these ideas or not: as long as ffxiv ends up with palatable gameplay.

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I'm just tired of you and others painting certain mechanics and decisions as "archaic" as a way of deflecting any arguments in defense of changes that would make this game more challenging, and trying to imply that they are "unacceptable" in today's fast paced dog-eat-dog world we live in(unlike the vastly different existence of 2004).

I like having moving interrupt spell casting, most players in my LS like it, we are not MMO luddites for enjoying such mechanics.

It is simplistic to allow people to cast while moving. You can't move while casting a spell. Deal with it, and incorporate it into your gameplay. You also don't have to use positional queues in order to pull off your combos, should we axe that mechanic because it is "unfair to melee".

It is still "real time action" if you have to stop in order to cast non-instant cast spells. Just because you aren't running around in circles and jumping up and down doesn't mean the game is any less demanding. In fact having to think about where you are going to stop to cast your spell in many situations does in fact involve quite a bit more in-depth thought and planning in "real time".

I'm not "pressing your buttons" I'm defending a change many have been asking we get for a long time now. This game was too easy at launch (bad gameplay) because it allowed everyone to do everything with no consequence. With no consequence to your actions you do not have to put any thought into gameplay, you simply spam and then with the introduction of certain fights like Ifrit you "move off the fire".

Good combat in an MMO forces you to adapt your strategy to the situation, to think ahead. This change helps that.

Well we differ in opinions. Which is admirable. No harm no foul in that at all.

It doesn't, however, delude the validity or legitimacy of either of our beliefs.

Thanks for not being derogatory in your repost.

I understand what you're saying.

You did, however, misunderstand my intentions. I do not desire "easier" gameplay. To say such is assuming a very many pretentious thing.

I played endgame BLM, WHM, BRD, SMN in ffXI just like many others and have no serious qualms with casting interruptions.

My main point is I would definitely like something new. Something engrossing. Standing casting a spell doesnt do that for me.

No harm no foul.

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Originally Posted by Murugan

I'm just tired of you and others painting certain mechanics and decisions as "archaic" as a way of deflecting any arguments in defense of changes that would make this game more challenging, and trying to imply that they are "unacceptable" in today's fast paced dog-eat-dog world we live in(unlike the vastly different existence of 2004).

I like having moving interrupt spell casting, most players in my LS like it, we are not MMO luddites for enjoying such mechanics.

It is simplistic to allow people to cast while moving. You can't move while casting a spell. Deal with it, and incorporate it into your gameplay. You also don't have to use positional queues in order to pull off your combos, should we axe that mechanic because it is "unfair to melee".

It is still "real time action" if you have to stop in order to cast non-instant cast spells. Just because you aren't running around in circles and jumping up and down doesn't mean the game is any less demanding. In fact having to think about where you are going to stop to cast your spell in many situations does in fact involve quite a bit more in-depth thought and planning in "real time".

I'm not "pressing your buttons" I'm defending a change many have been asking we get for a long time now. This game was too easy at launch (bad gameplay) because it allowed everyone to do everything with no consequence. With no consequence to your actions you do not have to put any thought into gameplay, you simply spam and then with the introduction of certain fights like Ifrit you "move off the fire".

Good combat in an MMO forces you to adapt your strategy to the situation, to think ahead. This change helps that.

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I'm one of those ppl who want this change and pressing a button to cancel spells is stupid.

theres been so many changes to battle mechanics. over and over and over again. why?

because no one likes the current system


so they change it

ppl complain


i for one. is extremely happy that he gets to move to cancel spells now.. thats going to make my archaic brain accomplish many more tasks now :D


p.s. maybe its just me, but i think this fix will help with ifrit~type issues, which could have been potentially dangerous in new primal fights (me thinks)....

Dunno why people complaining.. spellcast interrupted if we making movements, for me its immersi- oh wait..thats a forbidden word

You play a game with pedo-bears, metro-sexual musclemen, and cat people. There's nothing immersive about it unless you imagine yourself as part of some manga comic.

I'll reserve judgement till I see it in action, but every single MMO that has had casting interrupts while moving has been an annoyance rather than some engaging gameplay mechanic. You can pull off far more interesting things being able to move using abilities than playing red light, green light.

I'm not complaining about moving interrupting spellcasting, I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about the fact that we have to press another key to make sure I've stopped moving before casting, with the lag it was a good idea. But why am I forced to face the target to do it? What if I don't want to, like when I'm fighting Ahrimans that petrify me with their WS if I'm facing them?

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Originally Posted by Firon

I'm one of those ppl who want this change and pressing a button to cancel spells is stupid.

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i'm not a supporter of moving interrupts spellcasting, but i can see others points of why they like it.

when i think of spellcasting i think of a movie and a wizard duel they are moving and dodging behind stuff and casting spells as they run around. i don't think about the american revolution when 2 opposing armies stand across the field from each other in straight lines and just start shooting until everyone on the other side is dead. that's why people went to guerilla warfare. the casualties on the side that can efficiently fight that way will be much less.

my biggest issue to the change is when yoshi states "well with this change a controller user(which i am) will be able to use the system with moving, but it will be fine as long as you are not worried about efficiently casting your abilities." why would you play a game and not try to be as efficient as you can be?

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

I'm not complaining about moving interrupting spellcasting, I'm fine with that. I'm not complaining about the fact that we have to press another key to make sure I've stopped moving before casting, with the lag it was a good idea. But why am I forced to face the target to do it? What if I don't want to, like when I'm fighting Ahrimans that petrify me with their WS if I'm facing them?

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If you're just soloing, there's really very little reason for you to move at all if you're a caster.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'm not a supporter of moving interrupts spellcasting, but i can see others points of why they like it.

when i think of spellcasting i think of a movie and a wizard duel they are moving and dodging behind stuff and casting spells as they run around. i don't think about the american revolution when 2 opposing armies stand across the field from each other in straight lines and just start shooting until everyone on the other side is dead. that's why people went to guerilla warfare. the casualties on the side that can efficiently fight that way will be much less.

my biggest issue to the change is when yoshi states "well with this change a controller user(which i am) will be able to use the system with moving, but it will be fine as long as you are not worried about efficiently casting your abilities." why would you play a game and not try to be as efficient as you can be?

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In my eyes if you are playing this game with a controller period, you are not being as efficient as you could be with a keyboard and mouse. It takes you longer to target party members, other PCs, NPCs, or enemies; it takes you longer to execute multiple abilities in a row that are not next to one another or on the same bar; you have no access to binding keys such as your inventory to I, loot list to L, journal to J, chocobo to T or whatever. You're extremely bound by scrolling through menu after menu in terms of how the game is set up, and in the end it's not as efficient or fast.

That said, people are welcome to use controllers if it's what they are comfortable with. I just hope they understand the real differences in speed and efficiency in the two different hardware types.

Also spells that have a cast bar should only be cast-able while standing still, and instant spells should be cast-able while moving (and not stop you at all even when they cast).

I would just like to point out in almost every MMO, even newly released ones, your channeled spells are usually the strongest spells and are interrupted when you move. The thing is in FF online series all of your spells are "channeled" before they are released. Mages do not have any instant cast abilities like other MMOs in order to allow more mobility.

Also, in order to increase Mages mobility they would also have to increase melee, either now or once PvP is released(so PvP is a solid reason behind this). In every MMO with mobile mages there are also gap closing melees(force charge/Force pull for example in SWTOR). FF isn't about such fast paced battles and doubt the online series ever go in that direction.

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Originally Posted by Riaayo

In my eyes if you are playing this game with a controller period, you are not being as efficient as you could be with a keyboard and mouse. It takes you longer to target party members, other PCs, NPCs, or enemies; it takes you longer to execute multiple abilities in a row that are not next to one another or on the same bar; you have no access to binding keys such as your inventory to I, loot list to L, journal to J, chocobo to T or whatever. You're extremely bound by scrolling through menu after menu in terms of how the game is set up, and in the end it's not as efficient or fast.

That said, people are welcome to use controllers if it's what they are comfortable with. I just hope they understand the real differences in speed and efficiency in the two different hardware types.

Also spells that have a cast bar should only be cast-able while standing still, and instant spells should be cast-able while moving (and not stop you at all even when they cast).

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really?

/10char

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Originally Posted by Answa

Hopefully this "H" business will override the stupid 3-4-second wait before being able to cast in FFXI.

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"H" to face target has been in game for awhile now. You can bind the command to a different key if you'd wish; but, default is H and I <3 it.

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Originally Posted by Riaayo

In my eyes if you are playing this game with a controller period, you are not being as efficient as you could be with a keyboard and mouse. It takes you longer to target party members, other PCs, NPCs, or enemies; it takes you longer to execute multiple abilities in a row that are not next to one another or on the same bar; you have no access to binding keys such as your inventory to I, loot list to L, journal to J, chocobo to T or whatever. You're extremely bound by scrolling through menu after menu in terms of how the game is set up, and in the end it's not as efficient or fast.

That said, people are welcome to use controllers if it's what they are comfortable with. I just hope they understand the real differences in speed and efficiency in the two different hardware types.

Also spells that have a cast bar should only be cast-able while standing still, and instant spells should be cast-able while moving (and not stop you at all even when they cast).

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i'd love for you to be in any party with me and try to tell me i am not being efficient as my dps out does yours. good organization is key to using either method. me having all of my mostly used abilities together on the same bar is the same as having them numbered 1-10 and pushing a button. the only time i can see that there may be an issue with efficiency is when targeting when there's multiple mobs. in that case there's the same issue with keyboard and mouse in either clicking or hitting f8 to scroll mobs.

using a controller let's compare it to using a keyboard and mouse.
-crafting = edge controller i can sit back and craft while either smashing enter on your keyboard or clicking the items manually.
-movement = edge controller. with the analog buttons it is much easier to run around and adjust your camera as needed to see your location.
- sorting inventory or gearing up = edge controller. inventory is much more efficient using a controller. it's hillarious watching a kb/mouse video and how slowly they can do basic things when the controller can cut the time in half.
- battle = toss up. an organized person will have no issues with either method. to me the controller is much easier and faster to use.

it's a personal choice because our main healer used kb/m and he enjoys it, but you are ignorant to think using a controller makes anyone a worse player. how long do you think it takes to scroll from one spell to another? from one spell to another you have 2-5 seconds before the other goes off. if you can't scroll to your next spell in that time you have other issues to have looked at over the fact it's a controller slowing you down. you may want to have your mental capacity looked at.

i get in parties with people that only use kb/m all the time and i am always on top of the parse lists. using a controller has not slowed me down or made me more efficient. now granted, there is probably some that lack the mental capacity to set it up to be efficient, but that's not saying it can't be done.