Baldesion Arsenal Feedback

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

I've never ran into that issue with all effects turned on. I don't think its an issue with the game not being to handle it and more to do with the machine running the game or 1 piece of its hardware not making quota.

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I don't have this problem with 24 people, but when it gets past 100 or so smacking the same thing there's nothing that can really be done but ride it all out and hope you don't die. Always been a thing spanning multiple platforms. PS3, PS4, laptop and gaming desktop. If someone has a top of the line PC and super fast internet I'm sure it's less of an issue but it's still an issue that SE has never really solved. Past a certain point players not in your party and other non essential objects should be phased out to reduce the load and they are not, at least not as much as they should be. And even when they do vanish it is as though they are still there. Obviously they are, but we shouldn't have to load them when there's a lot going on in a small area like a Fate circle.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Nope. You want boring face roll 24man, go do Orbonne. BA isn't even difficult mechanically, it's only the no raising that forces players to be accountable for their own game play. I'm 100% for more challenging content especially considering Savage has been nerfed to the ground since Heavensward and there's no Ultimate this tier. I would say BA is on par with an average 24man in difficulty.

The support date was a good idea, it just needed an incentive. Having that fate drop fragments is a better idea.

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Since you're clearly against premades from entering as they lower the difficulty of the dungeon, how do you think SE should prevent them from getting in?

Players could mimic the difficulty if they so desired by simply refusing to raise or be raised if their remembered didn't proc, though something tells me they wouldn't if given the choice.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Nope. You want boring face roll 24man, go do Orbonne. BA isn't even difficult mechanically, it's only the no raising that forces players to be accountable for their own game play. I'm 100% for more challenging content especially considering Savage has been nerfed to the ground since Heavensward and there's no Ultimate this tier. I would say BA is on par with an average 24man in difficulty.

The support date was a good idea, it just needed an incentive. Having that fate drop fragments is a better idea.

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What I meant by reducing the difficulty is reduce the HP to 24 man instead since making it in to a 24 man duty finder as the rest of the mech stay the same same as the adds reduce hp so the entire dungeon does not take 2 hours

more people does not make it harder its just cluster F

I can honestly say I already dread going into Hydatos because of the BA situation. For starters, I will likely never get to run BA. I'm a 24 hour caretaker for a family member and simply cannot set aside 3 hours for a dungeon. That's nobody's problem but my own. But when i go to Hydatos and after Onvi is killed the chat battle begins. Most of the time the premade group is polite. They ask that nobody snipe the portals please. But there's that little suggestion that if you do enter a portal they will consider it sniping. Within a few seconds it turns into a shouting match between the premade group and regular players in the instance. There's always someone in the premade who says they'll report anyone who takes a portal. Then the others say you can't report me for playing the game. And on and on it goes.

By the time the support fate pops a good portion of the players are saying they won't do it because they want the premade to fail. Although I question how many actually follow through with that threat because there is always a very large crowd at the fate. But once it's over the whole debate about who has rights to the portals starts all over. That's usually when I get tired of it and leave.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Since you're clearly against premades from entering as they lower the difficulty of the dungeon, how do you think SE should prevent them from getting in?

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What on earth are you talking about. I've never once in this thread said I'm against premades. In fact, I've actively said it should be allowed as this is generally people's method of choice. Examples, also my original post at the start of this thread.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Regardless of peoples opinion of portal sniping, all it comes down to is the design is bad. The portals were a terrible idea. This is an MMO. Players will want to create parties to run together, whether for prog or to run with their friends, and overlooking this or thinking the basic culture of party finding will change is terrible design.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

These are definitely the biggest issues. They need to let Alliances queue and then take one portal per team.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

Players could mimic the difficulty if they so desired by simply refusing to raise or be raised if their remembered didn't proc, though something tells me they wouldn't if given the choice.

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What? Players can neither accept or refuse to raise because no one can use raise, doesn't matter if you're a premade or not. The only way you live after dying is if the remembered procs.

Have you actually read any of this thread or been in BA? Or are you simply throwing trash from the peanut gallery.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

What I meant by reducing the difficulty is reduce the HP to 24 man instead since making it in to a 24 man duty finder as the rest of the mech stay the same same as the adds reduce hp so the entire dungeon does not take 2 hours

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In theory, this already can happen. We went in as a group of 8, split 4 and 4 on the first bosses and got them to 50% before wiping to mechanics since we were new. The adds/bosses scale with the amount of people in there. We saw AV's HP jump up when our support group entered. The only issue is the 6 rooms before AV that would create the need to be a 24man minimum.

Good luck telling everyone else they can't come in if you wanted to test this though.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

BA IS difficult mechanically when you can't see the mechanics due to too many players. FFXIV has had culling issues since ARR. This isn't new. Why they thought they could get away with it in BA is ridiculous.

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This is correct, although its bug related rather than mechanics. I'll add it to the OP though since it is a massive issue. I have also found myself completely losing target on the wyverns in AV when they disappear in the crowd.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

In theory, this already can happen. We went in as a group of 8, split 4 and 4 on the first bosses and got them to 50% before wiping to mechanics since we were new. The adds/bosses scale with the amount of people in there. We saw AV's HP jump up when our support group entered. The only issue is the 6 rooms before AV that would create the need to be a 24man minimum.

Good luck telling everyone else they can't come in if you wanted to test this though.



This is correct, although its bug related rather than mechanics. I'll add it to the OF though since it is a massive issue. I have also found myself completely losing target on the wyverns in AV when they disappear in the crowd.

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that why i am asking for duty finder....

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

that why i am asking for duty finder....

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Well your original post said

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Things to change

1. Change BA into 24 man raid instead and lower the difficulty

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So forgive me if I assumed you wanted to change it to a 24man and lower the difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

What on earth are you talking about. I've never once in this thread said I'm against premades.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Nope. You want boring face roll 24man, go do Orbonne. BA isn't even difficult mechanically, it's only the no raising that forces players to be accountable for their own game play. I'm 100% for more challenging content especially considering Savage has been nerfed to the ground since Heavensward and there's no Ultimate this tier. I would say BA is on par with an average 24man in difficulty.

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You can't say the difficulty needs to be maintained while at the same time using a premade.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

What? Players can't refuse to raise because no one can use raise, doesn't matter if you're a premade or not. The only way you live after dying is if the remembered procs.

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The difficulty largely comes from no raises. If they removed the debuff that prevents raising through normal means, players like yourself would still be free to play it as it is now.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

You can't say the difficulty needs to be maintained while at the same time using a premade.

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Why not? If they're going to allow premades they could make it harder. Again, the dungeon mechanically isn't difficult by any stretch. And again, I never said anything about premades and difficulty. I responded to someone saying they wanted to make the dungeon easier which you have seriously gone off on a tangent with.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

The difficulty largely comes from no raises. If they removed the debuff that prevents raising through normal means, players like yourself would still be free to play it as it is now.

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I've cleared it 4 times in premades. The no raise thing is largely a non issue, and again, as I said, its the only thing in BA that gives it a challenge. In fact, I think coupled with the Sacrifice gamble its quite an interesting quirk.

What is the point of your posts, what are you trying to argue here.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Why not? If they're going to allow premades they could make it harder.

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It wasn't designed for premades.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Again, the dungeon mechanically isn't difficult by any stretch. And again, I never said anything about premades and difficulty. I responded to someone saying they wanted to make the dungeon easier

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It's not difficult, but they shouldn't make it easier because you want more challenging content? Doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

What is the point of your posts, what are you trying to argue here.

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If you want to argue for its difficulty to be maintained, you can't use a premade since you aren't doing it at its intended difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

I've cleared it 4 times in premades. The no raise thing is largely a non issue, and again, as I said, its the only thing in BA that gives it a challenge. In fact, I think coupled with the Sacrifice gamble its quite an interesting quirk.
What is the point of your posts, what are you trying to argue here.

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yes you've cleared it 4 times with premades
but how many progs did you do
since if there wasnt a no rez debuff it would really only take one run to do it no risk besides black hole take one single run possibly killing the content faster

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

It wasn't designed for premades.

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if it wasn't design for premades it wouldn't allow people in party to enter a portal

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Originally Posted by Duskane

yes you've cleared it 4 times with premades
but how many progs did you do
since if there wasnt a no rez debuff it would really only take one run to do it no risk besides black hole take one single run possibly killing the content faster

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2 prog wipes on ozma then the kill on the 3rd. Absolutely agree, the content does not need to be made easier at all.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

if it wasn't design for premades it wouldn't allow people in party to enter a portal

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^

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Things to change

1. Change BA into 24 man raid instead and lower the difficulty
2. delete support fate

this allow player to want to farm frag can do so while leaving the premade alone

and also allow people to do BA anytime they want rather then murdering and cursing each other in the game

this is not content this is making chaos and toxicity the dev has failed to keep the peace on this one even if its the player fault but it is up to the dev to make sure thing like this does not happen in the first place....

The best way for protection is prevention

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Totally agree with that. If the content requires a 56 men discord to join in, it's a failure. They should nerf it so anyone can enjoy it.

And btw, it was not designed for 56 premade, it was designed to play with the people you meet in the instance.
You are not expected to massively jump from instance to instance to form a 56 players team.
In my eyes those kills are not even legit because they bypass the greatest difficulty of BA...

Did my first attempt at Ozma today with a clear/farm group. Wiped at 15% with time to spare before enrage because acceleration bombs are hard.

The fight really isn't that bad overall, but having a mechanic that punishes everybody for one person's mistake is pretty awful with so many players involved and is probably the biggest barrier to clears overall because it often coincides with AoE damage that can potentially cause a wipe if the healers don't top everyone off immediately.

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Originally Posted by Moshimoshikami

In my eyes those kills are not even legit because they bypass the greatest difficulty of BA...

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The greatest of what ? When you can hardly go in. This will not be an issue if EVERYONE in hydatos can go in. 144 man can go in. But nope, only 35% of you can get in and enjoy the content. While we are outside eating dirt and become slave of support fate (without significant reward).

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Originally Posted by Celenia

The greatest of what ? When you can hardly go in. This will not be an issue if EVERYONE in hydatos can go in. 144 man can go in. But nope, only 35% of you can get in and enjoy the content. While we are outside eating dirt and become slave of support fate (without significant reward).

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Well I think we share the same opinion. I was not able to get in either because want to play the content the way it was intended to be played.

Imo, the ovni fate should grant randomly access to BA like the bunny fate. this would work in 2 steps.
Players get either a blue or a red key. As many blue keys are distributed as the number of portals. The other disttributed keys are red.
1. If someone get a blue key he/she can enter the portal ASAP. No fight because there are as many blue keys as portals.
2. If someone get a red key, he/she has to wait 4min until portals stabilize and turn red.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

if it wasn't design for premades it wouldn't allow people in party to enter a portal

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No it was just SE not expecting many players being as they are, it surely was meant for friends being able to go together... or for forming a full party before entering.

IMO if you need an guide or watch a video to be able to do it is a design fail, sry... but it takes all the fun out it.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

IMO if you need an guide or watch a video to be able to do it is a design fail, sry... but it takes all the fun out it.

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So true, where is the fun of a fight you don't have to analyse why and how you get your ass handed to yourself. A video spoil everything the fight have to offer, you sure get your win faster but you won't get better at the game if you have to play with your trainning wheel for ever.

Here's my issue with the whole thing over the discord: As much salt as there is over premades requesting portals for the folks who are grouping up solely to do the portals, it's amazingly funny how when there are no premades and there is an instance full of level 60s who are really doing a bunch of nothing but bunny fates, those same folks complaining about the BA don't even want to attempt it. I've seen multiple instances, a lot of them with 80 - 140 players in them, and you'll barely get maybe 10 ppl interested in running the content.

The discord group is there to help players get their prog/clears. There are a few bad apples, sure, but for the most part, the discord is courteous, they communicate with the instances that they jump into, and if a BA run is already being ran, the group heads off into another instance. Yet, when those who argue about premades don't even take the offer when its there, kind of makes the complaints run hollow. The BA should have been a DF option, for sure, because content like this just doesn't work in the open world - not when you have all these issues cropping up. But the discord is honestly perhaps the best option for the time being, because is the level of communication you need overall to get through it.

Baldesion Arsenal itself is fine. It's just that the entry method is completely FUBAR'd. I don't know exactly what's the situation over in the NA and EU datacenters (from what I can tell it isn't exactly all sunshine and rainbow), but it is especially bad in the Elemental datacentre, where there are CONSTANT battles for portals. EN and JP players are pretty much at war with each other all the time, sometimes devolving into verbal arguments. Several times I've witnessed players entering a portal, only to leave BA straight after just to spite the premade groups. At this point, I'm waiting to enter the dungeon way more than actually doing the content itself. How the hell did this pass QA? Did they severely underestimated the amount of players who wants to do BA? Or is it just pure incompetence on their part?

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Originally Posted by Raisek

How the hell did this pass QA? Did they severely underestimated the amount of players who wants to do BA? Or is it just pure incompetence on their part?

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None of those I think. Eureka and BA are weird experiment and nothing more, they more or less just want to see if it work and how player receive it. They are develloped with an overly exagerated optimism on their side, they really expect player to cater to their dev's way of thinking when playing half-assed experimental content.

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Originally Posted by Raisek

Baldesion Arsenal itself is fine. It's just that entry method is completely FUBAR'd. I don't know exactly what's the situation over in the NA and EU datacenters (from what I can tell it isn't exactly all sunshine and rainbow), but it is especially bad in the Elemental datacentre, where there are CONSTANT battles for portals. EN and JP players are pretty much at war with each other all the time, sometimes devolving into verbal arguments. Several times I've witnessed players entering a portal, only to leave BA straight after just to spite the premade groups. At this point, I'm waiting to enter the dungeon way more than actually doing the content itself. How the hell did this pass QA? Did they severely underestimated the amount of players who wants to do BA? Or is it just pure incompetence on their part?

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Honestly, I think we were supposed to all enter separately with those stabilizers as sort of a "golden ticket". Except they're far too expensive for anyone to bother trying to get, you can't change classes in BA so forming parties on entry is almost impossible and yeah, people like doing stuff with their mates.

But I agree, the Arsenal itself is fine.

And yes, your guess is correct. It is battle royale both in shout chat and out of game.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

So true, where is the fun of a fight you don't have to analyse why and how you get your ass handed to yourself. A video spoil everything the fight have to offer, you sure get your win faster but you won't get better at the game if you have to play with your trainning wheel for ever.

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Dont get me wrong i rly do see why it sucks to die there... but... the one time i actually used guides for primals was... a letdown, it helps me like 0 and it takes ALL the fun, its cheating and the victory feels not earned....


the system just sucks and at least the delevel gotte be removed - but they can keep the permadeath.


And ppl dont get that it sadly takes a permade party as else you wont get HALF the needed players, its less about leeching then the fact that you just dont get the ppl. Its the same on prefarming stuff... >_>

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

Dont get me wrong i rly do see why it sucks to die there... but... the one time i actually used guides for primals was... a letdown, it helps me like 0 and it takes ALL the fun, its cheating and the victory feels not earned....


the system just sucks and at least the delevel gotte be removed - but they can keep the permadeath.


And ppl dont get that it sadly takes a permade party as else you wont get HALF the needed players, its less about leeching then the fact that you just dont get the ppl. Its the same on prefarming stuff... >_>

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Yeah, I'd been hyped for a hard dungeon with news bosses that don't get spoiled by an easy as cake normal mode, asking to be extra careful cause of perma death, but the delevel + how hard it is to actualy even get in, not even mentionning having to go trough the whole Eureka, preventing my late birds friends to come with me make it that I simply don't even want to give it a try...

Its a pointless thing, like, you need 30 min to one hour for that. whats next? Delevel on the next Savage raid after a full wipe? xD

Its not difficult, its just annoying.

But thinking about it, it might been planned to give more ppl a chance, so that after a faield attemt you need a while to level back so others can try first.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

But thinking about it, it might been planned to give more ppl a chance, so that after a faield attemt you need a while to level back so others can try first.

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Curious is it possible to enter the duty and leave without losing experience. Does one have to die to trigger it or does the duty have to be completed to not cause a delevel?

it is, but only barely, if you die and the timelimit runs out, so you get thrown out before your 10 min run out, youre corpse spawns at the base and ppl can ress you.

Eureka is bad. BA sucks to even get in to. Sorry but SE have, by flawed design, made the community a toxic cesspool and wasted thousands of hours of the collective community's time. Here is my BA feedback, READ #2.



https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...rvkirtnggr.jpg

From all the time I've spent on this, it looks like Arsenal COULD be fun. I've certainly had a good enough time when I actually got into it.

However, SE, please, can you enlighten me how one is actually supposed to run this content?
Going in solo doesn't work, either people aren't going in at all and no progress can be made, or a full pre-made from outside sources is running and will absolutely not tolerate your taking a portal, despite what they might be saying.

Going in as a full pre-made such as I mentioned above does not work, unless you're extremely lucky, it takes an average of maybe 3 hours to get all groups into the same instance, at which point you're the one needing to enforce the same "nobody else gets a portal" as everyone else if you want to have a chance to enter together.

I think the thing that frustrates me the most, is that the actual dungeon itself isn't even hard, at all. The mechanics are all exceedingly basic. If it weren't for the fact that people can't even enter, it would be trivial to clear with enough practice.

This entire post is only happening since I am sitting here, actively trying to run content, but the awful design of this is preventing this. It's been over 4 and a half hours of actively trying in my current group to get in, and we still haven't managed.

Please, developers. Do something about this, talk to us, anything. I have never been this frustrated with FF XIV since I started during beta.

UPDATE: 5 hours total after starting, the group of 48 people that all got together, were ready and willing to run the Arsenal, have given up since the game at no point allowed all of us to play together.

I think I am going insane.

Most of the time, can't get a portal to even get in. If I do get in the people outside fail the FATE, essentially wasting nearly two hours of my life (still preferable to the frustration of portal sniping).

I've put up with most of the experimental content the game has attempted, but this portal system is finally crossed the line, what a total disaster.

The idea of an Open Dungeon is interesting, but they didn't predict people would be willing to go to incredible lengths to get around their roadblocks to make it harder to do with pre-made groups. It seems people are willing to put up with multiple hours of instance hopping and portal contention rather in order to do static 56 groups rather than do it with random people.

If they want to keep to their "open" design one solution would be to add it to the Duty Finder, remove the role restrictions (like pvp any party composition is possible), and disallow queueing as a party. This wouldn't match the original design entirely (no Ovni, would need to kill the support fate), but would force people to not try to game the system with large statics.

It's a colossal failure.

We want large scale content like this, but this thing needs to be server specific or something. Just spent over a hour in a party trying to get in with other parties as part of our group in Discord only to keep getting in instances that already had groups in BA.

Content requiring this many people to join in should be done through DF, plain and simple. No sense in spending 2+ hours waiting for a chance to just get started.

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It wasn't designed for premades.

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It was entirely designed for premades.
If they wanted actually wanted it to be puggabe they would let you switch job in the lobby to assign roles and organize.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

IMO if you need an guide or watch a video to be able to do it is a design fail, sry... but it takes all the fun out it.

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I don't call it a design fail. I call it a player base fail. You cant really apply that to BA because we also already have a very large number of players that can't even figure out how to play their job class or do a basic 4 person duty without watching a tutorial video on youtube. If you insist on trying to spin this as a design fail on SE's part then the fail is catering content for the lazy players that don't want to use their brain.

Does anybody have any insight into how the JP side is handling the implementation? I don't really care much for the argument of "oh JP is more capable of pugging, so yada yada yada..." - that's not what I'm wondering. I am curious is JP has similiar complaints about the entry requirements with the level of communication needed.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Does anybody have any insight into how the JP side is handling the implementation? I don't really care much for the argument of "oh JP is more capable of pugging, so yada yada yada..." - that's not what I'm wondering. I am curious is JP has similiar complaints about the entry requirements with the level of communication needed.

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Tonberry (Elemental[JP] DC) here. The Japanese also use discord (or other means outside the game) to organise runs, but PUGs over here are also very very prevalant, to the point where you'll have 3 to 4 people camping per portal during primetime. And no, most people aren't happy with the entry requirements. To quote somebody on the JP forums 'I want to fight the bosses inside the dungeon, not the players outside.'. And as I've said in a previous post, portal stealing/sniping are RAMPANT over here. Everybody is miserable, and this whole shenanigan has brought out the toxicity in both EN and JP players alike in my datacentre.

BA Feedback: The only thing I dislike about arsenal is that it's annoying and complicated to get in and causes endless drama among the users here, remember Dynamis in FFXI? Remember the Phantom/Timeless Hourglass?

Draw inspiration from that.

For those who aren't familiar with Dynamis, imagine if NA, EU, and JP were all on the same servers and there were 6 instances for BA per server, and you had to coordinate with 40-50 other linkshells of varying languages to figure out what zone was going to be open and when THEN you had to spend 1m to get in and hope you don't wipe. That's about how early days of Dynamis were. In hindsight, I do kinda miss meeting the occasional JP person I could communicate with. Was fun. =/

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

It was entirely designed for premades.
If they wanted actually wanted it to be puggabe they would let you switch job in the lobby to assign roles and organize.

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If it was designed for premades there would be tools to make one. Look at the description of the content again. Does any of that fit with the entire alliance having someone call out mechanics over voice?