LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

I never said we don't need to dps. I said it isn't our primary concern. Or secondary. Tertiary concern, maybe.
I'll write it out again - of course we should maximize our dps output. But it starts and ends there. It's silly that some tanks (warriors) believe that DPS is the end-goal. We aren't the damage dealers in our group. We aren't.

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"It isn't even our secondary concern" and "of course we should maximize our DPS output" feels like incredibly contradictory statements.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Can anybody of the "muhdontneeddps" people explain why the majority of new skills for the tanks are dps skills and not tools to further increase our mitigation/survivability

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Sure, they increased the potency of Inner Beast so that WAR can totally ignore it for more Fell Cleaves.
Sure, Shake it off does wonder for your DPS.
Sure, Onslaught only useful part is the enmity boost.
Sure, Upheaval deals more damage the more HP you have to be used in Defiance, it's so good when you want to stay in Deliverance most of the time.
Sure, you gained Rampart to make up for Foresight.
Sure, they removed the beast gauge of Vengeance and Raw Intuituion to prevent DPS obsessed people burning them only for more Fell Cleave.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

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Anf still no answer. IF SE had the intend to lower tank dmg thats ok. But not like they implemented it. No scaling on dps/aggro on our right side is just plain stupid.
And I dont understand how you cant understand that the majority is not crying cause of the "muhdeeps" but because our accs are just not contributing to our Tanking gameplay. Nothing hits hard enough to warrant the increased HP on fending accs. It just feels not rewarding to buy or drop accs.

Oh and I'm still waiting on the answer why the majority of new skills are dps skills

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

To elaborate, what I meant by it is that although I completely agree we should play to the best of our ability, it isn't something we should actively worry about.

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But it has been something we've had to actively worry about in past content, and still do to a potentially lesser degree in the current content. It remains to be seen for certain with Omega Savage.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

I never said we don't need to dps. I said it isn't our primary concern. Or secondary. Tertiary concern, maybe.

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you're right about that however holding aggro and reducing damage are a pass or fail scenario, there's barely any difference between a tank that focuses on these things, there is no skill ceiling. when damage is a factor however things change significantly.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Another warrior.

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Point on this doll where the big bad 3.0 Warrior touched you.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

My job is to keep the enmity, to position the enemy accordingly, to mitigate damage for myself and my party. Just like with healers, I agree that I should try my best to optimize my damage output, of course I should, I like to believe that's what separates a good tank from a great tank. But it's a bonus, it should never have been a requirement.

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Sadly, I don't think you can change the mentality. I started in February, and from what I saw in Heavensward, people expected you to be amazing.

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However, over the course of Heavensward the community mindset has shifted from "Expect the minimum, commend to exceptional" to "Expect the exceptional, chastise the minimum". Back in 2.X the DRG in your party would have been happy enough to clear without commenting on your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Sure, they increased the potency of Inner Beast so that WAR can totally ignore it for more Fell Cleaves.
Sure, Shake it off does wonder for your DPS.
Sure, Onslaught only useful part is the enmity boost.
Sure, Upheaval deals more damage the more HP you have to be used in Defiance, it's so good when you want to stay in Deliverance most of the time.
Sure, you gained Rampart to make up for Foresight.
Sure, they removed the beast gauge of Vengeance and Raw Intuituion to prevent DPS obsessed people burning them only for more Fell Cleave.

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Good thing they didnt give us an ability to focus even more on fell cleaves.
Good thing shake it off is freeing us from every detrimental effect and is really useful.
Good thing onslaught doesnt cost any of our Limited beast gauge
Good thing upheaval is actually the only new skill without complaints
Good thing they did remove the extra BG from defense Cooldowns since we got the extra BG on path

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Originally Posted by Falar

DPS is enmity, so if you can do great damage then it really fulfills your role.

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Enmity generation is controlled by a modifier that interacts with your damage output. They can do just like what they did this patch increase enmity generation and never lay finger on your stats..

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Originally Posted by Velthice

Sorry the amount of hp you have doesn't actually make you harder or easier to heal. That's why vit accessories are useless. They literally do nothing for you. Hp has always been (and always will be) like how accuracy was. You only need "enough" and anything more than that is completely useless.

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How much is 'enough' in O4s?

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

How much is 'enough' in O4s?

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We'll have to wait and see, obviously.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

However, over the course of Heavensward the community mindset has shifted from "Expect the minimum, commend to exceptional" to "Expect the exceptional, chastise the minimum". Back in 2.X the DRG in your party would have been happy enough to clear without commenting on your DPS.

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Back in 2.x, the DRG in your party often ended up dead on the floor, so it's no surprise that they would've been happy to clear without commenting on your DPS.

While SE do need to make tank changes (especially to accessories and dps scaling), I think that they should impelement a change where dps is increased only by a small amount if they want to remove the dps meta. Meanwhile, I think the bigger issue is that tanks are resistimg change because they want tanks to be low end dps who just happens to be better at holding aggro. If the previous meta was all about dps, why can't tanks accept that square wants to change this? Sure SE needs more work on tank balancing to make it more fun but it seems that most complaints just want the dps meta to continue. Why can't we adapt? If you dont want to tank like this then switch to dps. Sure its gonna affect queues but thats more effective at letting SE know that you have an issue

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

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The reasoning behind this has been discussed to death in threads like these and others. It'd probably help you to understand what the grievances are if you take some time to read through them.

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

While SE do need to make tank changes (especially to accessories and dps scaling), I think that they should impelement a change where dps is increased only by a small amount if they want to remove the dps meta. Meanwhile, I think the bigger issue is that tanks are resistimg change because they want tanks to be low end dps who just happens to be better at holding aggro. If the previous meta was all about dps, why can't tanks accept that square wants to change this? Sure SE needs more work on tank balancing to make it more fun but it seems that most complaints just want the dps meta to continue. Why can't we adapt? If you dont want to tank like this then switch to dps. Sure its gonna affect queues but thats more effective at letting SE know that you have an issue

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So basically. Just switch roles silently and dont give any feedback? Great idea

I've read this thread and the others and still all I see are tanks who want an increase in dps rather than maximizing and adapting to lower dps desired by SE. Maximizing is making the most of dps regardless if its high or low. What most people want is a return to the previous meta of higher tank dps. Its a refusal to adapt to new changes. In no way am I saying that SE got this perfectly (scaling issues mostly) but I do think that they want tanks to be more of the traditional tanks in the trinity system. If you guys think I dont get it then so be it. Lets agree to disagree. I'm just giving my 2 cents here. To each there own

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Originally Posted by Baci

So basically. Just switch roles silently and dont give any feedback? Great idea

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I'm sure YoshiP knows your concerns by now its just a matter of whether they will implement it or not. You guys now flame others for not supporting your ideas. You've let SE know what you want. Now either continue tanking or switch to dps.

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

I've read this thread and the others and still all I see are tanks who want an increase in dps rather than maximizing and adapting to lower dps desired by SE.

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You seem new, which I won't complain about whatsoever, but, by extension, you also seem to lack an understanding for the way the Tank meta has developed over time.

To put it another way, let's go with your ideal and say we are ultimately forced to live with these new changes and lower our damage thresholds in order to play the newer, harder content. What happens, then, when we do everything that we're capable of doing but, because of our overall lowered damage output, we're unable to properly handle mechanics within certain fights and, taking it a step further, unable to clear certain fights in general on account of the fact that the DPS's output is subpar, which is a problem that, within this context, could have been covered by the Tanks putting out just a bit more damage that, before these adjustments, they were capable of doing? In this instance, you would probably be inclined to answer that it's a DPS problem that the DPS have to resolve on their own, but consider, if you will, that DPS players in general in this game have historically proven to be just as, if not more so, resistant to adjusting their playstyle whatsoever, even if it would result in better performance.

Aside from the desire to play one's Job to their maximum potential, this is another big reason for why a lot Tanks are upset about these changes. It has little to do with any stubbornness or refusal to "adapt", at least on the part of the Tanks.

On a more trivial and unrelated note, you posted an opinion on an open forum, thus opening both yourself and your words up to be judged, criticized, commented on, discussed, and argued by anyone who read them and has the ability to respond. That's no reason to shy away from reception, even if it disagrees with what you stated.

If the problem was indeed subpar dps in future content and dps roles are played competently enough but is still not enough, then the problem then lies with SE for designing content knowing that the changes they made to the tanks would lead to this outcome. I am inclined to believe that since SE delibirately curbed tank dps at the start of patch 4.0, they would implement new content knowing that subpar dps could become an issue. If they did not then thats a design issue with them. If this is at the heart of tank complaints then thats just refusing to give SE the chance to give appropriate content. On the other hand, the accessory stat scaling should definitely be changed. But if SE does do this, I think that they'd fix it without upping tank dps by a significant amount.
I'm open to your disagreements but I'd rather not add another long argument to this thread so I'll try to end my thoughts with this post

The problem is that the large skill gap in this game's player base causes SE to design content where tanks and healers who have a full understanding of both their job and the content are able to focus on dps while still performing the duties relevant to their role. I fail to see how nerfing tank damage fixes the problem; they'll still be focusing on dps, they just won't be doing as much.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

The problem is that the large skill gap in this game's player base causes SE to design content where tanks and healers who have a full understanding of both their job and the content are able to focus on dps while still performing the duties relevant to their role. I fail to see how nerfing tank damage fixes the problem; they'll still be focusing on dps, they just won't be doing as much.

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Honing your skills to do more DPS is a good thing. The problem is that the choice of gear had nothing to do with actuall skills.

It's like comparing a bad ilvl300 DRG and a good i150DRG and saying that the first one is a better player because his number is higher.

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

If the problem was indeed subpar dps in future content and dps roles are played competently enough but is still not enough, then the problem then lies with SE for designing content knowing that the changes they made to the tanks would lead to this outcome.

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"Competently enough" would not result in subpar DPS output in such an example, but if it DOES happen to prove to be the case that even optimal DPS is not enough to clear things like Savage without equally exceptional Tank and Healer damage output, then I'll certainly agree that the fault lies with the dev team for breaking their own content with the changes they've made. As it stands right now, though, we don't have a precedent as of yet for that to be the case, at least as far as I'm aware of. I have noticed, on the other hand, that sometimes Tanks and Healers have still had to completely salvage a party almost singlehandedly, which means that the potential for issues to arise based on the lowered damage threshold of Tanks (and potentially Healers as well) certainly exists, which is a cause for concern. While we do, indeed, have to wait and see what the future holds, I am of the opinion that it would be just as negligent to not voice aloud these preliminary concerns in addition to the overall sense of dissatisfaction that our longtime-played Jobs no longer feel as though they have the same usefulness and potential that they once had just two patches ago.

Preferences aside, the community reps have already encouraged discussions and exchanges of differing ideas like this as it helps them to figure out what, exactly, the community is looking for, which they relay to the dev team in order to help them decide on which adjustments should be made.

I get that people are dissatisfied with tanks right now ( I'm especially disappointed with how DRK turned out) but is clamoring for the previous vit damage scaling or implementing a similar mechanic to increase DPS really the best solution to this? As you mentioned right now we need to see what the future holds to know if subpar dps will indeed be an issue. And SE heavily implied that this dps reduction was intentional. So why fervently continue to oppose this? Can we not just ask SE to give us a class redesign to make them more fun without resorting to DPS if they insist on the traditional tank model?
But at the end of the day I guess it is SEs fault for giving tanks a taste of that juicy dps meta. And I guess it is the players choice to adapt or to desire the previous meta. Just sad for me that people would rather have a dps tank than ask SE to redesign tanks to be more fun while being more in line with traditional mmo tanks

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

And SE heavily implied that this dps reduction was intentional. So why fervently continue to oppose this? Can we not just ask SE to give us a class redesign to make them more fun without resorting to DPS if they insist on the traditional tank model?

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For me, they should expand the DPS skills so that the rotation itself is more interesting, outside of any gear consideration.
On top on that, since they apparently want to enforce tank stance usage, remove VIT accessories completely, keep the damage scaling on STR, increase damage received and increase the eHP gain on tank stances so that you'd be wrecked if you MT in DPS stance.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

*snip*

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Probably because the first slot to be removed when content is on farm is a tank slot, unless mechanics demand 2 tanks.

Furthermore, the best mitigation of damamge to the party will always be death to the enemy. The faster it dies, the less you have to mitigate, the less you have to heal.

Tanks are the LAST people you need to be telling to change jobs. If anything, you need to be on your knees giving them reasons to stay

Main conserne is that. It is no fun beating rock whit wooden stick
If they whant reduce tank dps then tank need become true support. Whit utility that will increase dps dmg and disrupt opponents. If we don't have that then only thing that make tank fun over long run will be dps race. How far can you push limits whit limitations tanks are set in

So I think it's pretty safe to say that a major part of the reason tanks got switched back to STR, is because of the death penalty changes, and how it only effects STR/DEX/INT/MND, they most likely changed tanks because they did that then realized that with the old scaling system a death to a tank did nothing (since they scaled with VIT). So now we scale with STR as to fall under the umbrella of still receiving a penalty to dying.

Wouldn't a simple solution to this whole STR/VIT issue simply be to set tanks back to VIT scaling, then have "Weakness" and "Brink of Death" be a 15% and 30% POTENCY cut, instead of a 15/30% main-stat reduction, that way death still has the penalty of dps/hps lost, but preserves the health of the player so that they don't get curb-stomped upon revival as well as allowing tanks to actually scale with the stat that their gear gives them.

Once agian, many people are kinda missing the point, so ill quote myself

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

TL;DR: We (healers) dont have Heals/shields that scales with target's Hps .... the problem is not tank's doing bad dps, but them being forced to get VIT when it helps nothing to the party or themselves.

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

Once agian, many people are kinda missing the point, so ill quote myself

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WHM has.
And as WAR Thrill of Battle comes to mind, the effect of that scales with VIT.

TBN scale off hp darn

And so does the shield from Divine Veil! Hahaha

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

Just sad for me that people would rather have a dps tank than ask SE to redesign tanks to be more fun while being more in line with traditional mmo tanks

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Well it's the rather logical and sensible thing to ask for honestly. Because at this point with the expansion already out SE can only realistically do things like adjusting potency on skills, adding STR to Tank accessories, making Tank damage scale off VIT instead, or reverting the Tank damage calculate to STR+VIT like it was towards the end of HW. Or to put it all more simply. I'm saying they're realistically only going to change the numbers on things.

Since what you're describing with asking SE "to redesign tanks to be more fun" would simply require too huge of an overhaul. Since they would have to largely scrap what we have currently and rework it from the ground up. Which they're obviously not going to be doing anytime before 5.0. Since the only time we see absolutely massive overhauls of how Jobs play is with the release of a new expansion. Which is of course because of the huge amount of development time it takes to rework things so heavily in regards to how a Job plays.

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

Once agian, many people are kinda missing the point, so ill quote myself

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WHM, WAR, PLD, AND DRK all have shields that scale off of Vit. Can we have something a tad more relevant to the discussion?

First off, let me get this out of the way - "OMG WAR main, disregard anything I say that doesn't agree with your personal viewpoint on the matter lolkthxbai!!1one".

*Ahem* Now, back to being rational adults who can articulate their gripes about this matter in a calm and professional manner.

My Problem with STR accessories on Tanks

As a tank main since I started raiding in 2.5, my problem with the current tank accessory setup is centred on the fact that FFXIV is a purely vertical scaling game with regards to equipment upgrades.

By and large, barring large differences in materia melds, normal quality crafted gear, or Diadem's RNG weapons and substat distributions, getting a higher item level piece of equipment is an upgrade. It makes our job stronger. We get more main stat, which affects our damage dealt and healing. On armour and weapons, we get more vitality, which increases our max HP so you can survive more damage before needing heals. Upgrading our weapon also increases weapon damage, which boosts your damage and healing done even more. We also get higher amounts of secondary stats as gear iLvl goes up. Finally, and mostly just relevant for tanks, higher iLvl armour increases our defence and magical defence, reducing the amount of damage received from attacks (the only mitigation stats other than Tenacity, which is still dubious in its scaling even at ~5% per 1000).

Given the vertical progression model, this makes it feel good to receive an upgrade. However small an increase, it makes us feel stronger and more powerful each time.

All of this boils down to gradually upgrading gear in this fashion, and wanting to feeling rewarded every time we receive a higher iLevel piece of equipment that we can wear.

My issue with this is that since 4.0, with the reversion to pure STR AP scaling for tanks, none of the new role-locked tank accessories feel like an upgrade, and therefore, for the most part, I don't want to wear any of the new Stormblood tank accessories.

As I was leveling Warrior and Dark Knight, after earning tomestones of verity to buy i310 gear, after killing and farming Lakshmi EX, I kept seeing healers and DPS players getting shiny new accessory upgrades, whereas every time I saw a new role-locked tank accessory drop, I felt like the game had offered me a piece of coal instead.

Tanks are the only role confronting this issue in Stormblood, as higher item level role-locked accessories are an upgrade for every DPS and healer job.

As a tank main, this feels awful.

I'll list some suggestions on how to fix this issue in a subsequent post.

I'll preface this by saying I've not played since ARR and am not yet 70, so take with a grain of salt.

I personally feel like the issue lies more with gear/stat variety.

In WoW there is at least your set armour, alternate offset pieces, assorted trinkets with varying effects and so on. Sure, there was still a defined BIS list, but the puzzle was around balancing the stats on the pieces you did have to ensure things like meeting caps, pushing hit off the combat table, active effects, etc.

FFXIV's secondary stats don't really matter in that way. The transition from more EHP to more DPS is literally the only interesting thing to do with gear and even then it's super basic by comparison. There's no "puzzle" beyond that - no theorycrafting to be done.

So to anyone accusing folk of being up in arms about "muh deeps" or whatever, I think it's more that they're up in arms about the only interesting gear choice they had at all being taken away.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

WHM, WAR, PLD, AND DRK all have shields that scale off of Vit. Can we have something a tad more relevant to the discussion?

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While his statement was a bit hyperbolic, the point still stands and is extremely relevant. These skills that "scale" off vit are not required to survive any content and the "scaling effect" is nearly meaningless. When compared to the benefit of doing hundreds of more DPS in STR gear, well, there is no comparison.

WHM - Benediction: Limited to no benefit from it "scaling", used when tank is dangerously low HP. Doesn't matter how much total HP they have. A tank with high HP might be able to take an extra auto attack from relevant bosses before its use is necessary effectively saving you a cure II or equivalent.

WAR - Thrill of Battle, Upheaval: Offers no mitigation benefit, again at best saving you a Cure or equivalent due to the increased healing from ToB. Damage bonus to upheaval is negligible compared to the overall benefit from wearing STR gear.

PLD - Divine Veil: Additional benefit of ~2000 damage mitigated full STR vs full VIT. Meaningless with all current content.

DRK - Blackest Night: About the only skill I could see with an argument for useful VIT scaling, increases direct mitigation.

More and more I'm feeling like you guys are right, SE just doesn't want people to play tanks.

They didn't mention anything about adjusting costs for stance swapping. Outside of the gearing issue this is the main complaint (for war, at least).

It doesn't sound like there is going to be any real "fix" to the gearing issue either, likely they are just going to job lock the old accessories too.

Also, since they are having to scramble to "fix" this by patch 4.05, it leads me to believe they had no plans whatsoever to even go back and make adjustments, nor were they even monitoring the tank situation to begin with. Like, if the player base hadn't spoke up they wouldn't even be addressing these issues.

So, we'll have HP inflation - but it won't be the kind that upsets balancing so that's OK.

Incoming WALL OF TEXT!!

Possible Solutions

The dev team has expressed that they have no interest in returning to tank attack power scaling off VIT.

They want to be able to scale tank HP and tank AP independently. That's fine. We can treat this as a design constraint for any possible fixes.

Furthermore, the dev team doesn't seem to be thrilled with the tank damage meta, and appears to want to cut back on it.

With that in mind, here are a few ideas I have on how to remedy the problem, which can be used in conjunction with one another.

Also, most of these are not novel ideas - they've been mentioned already. I just want to consolidate and flesh them out a bit more.

1. Add some STR to role-locked tank accessories
Now that accessories moving forward are role-locked, they can be tweaked independently of other jobs and roles.

In order for the 4.0 accessories to surpass the 270 STR accessories, they would need to have at least 53 STR added to them (53 base STR + 25 STR from materia VI = 78 STR, the same amount gained from the 270 STR pieces).

So long as level 70 tank accessories have at least 53 STR on them in addition to VIT, they'll strictly be an upgrade for tanks, which is one way to solve the problem.

Furthermore, because these are role-locked, you can change the progression of STR increments on higher level tank accessories differently than for healers and DPS while still making them upgrades.

Right now, DPS and healer accessories give roughly +6.5 main stat every ten item levels.

For tank accessories, you could have weaker STR scaling while still providing more STR on each higher level piece, such as by giving roughly +2.5 additional Strength every ten item levels on tank accessories.

In table form:
http://i.imgur.com/10qXpG9.png

While this change would retain an element of the tank DPS meta, should they desire, they can taper off STR gains relative to other jobs to lower the impact of it.

This change on its own does have a downside though. As DPS and healers continue to scale better from their accessories, enmity will eventually become a problem again and enmity modifiers will have to be gradually increased over time to compensate.

2. Make VIT organically boost enmity
Another possibility is making VIT increase our enmity modifiers, so that higher VIT = higher enmity.

I'm not going to crunch any numbers here, but my first take would be something like making every 200 VIT add an additional +0.1x enmity modifier to all enmity-increasing abilities (perhaps with different scaling for AOE abilities).

Also, I'm not sure if making this additional enmity boost additive or multiplicative would be more helpful without trivializing threat management, but some sort of system like this (once the numbers are tweaked and optimized) would allow for tank enmity to organically scale with levels, and could remove the need for the devs to increase enmity modifiers over time as DPS and healer enmity continue to climb.

3. Lock tanks out of ALL STR accessories while providing a different incentive to upgrade them
This is the most controversial solution I have, but I personally think it's the closest in line to what the dev team is considering as their fix in 4.05, so I might as well share these in hopes of dulling the loss come 4.05.

First, prevent tanks from using STR accessories, maybe starting at level 50 or even level 30 (it's largely negligible before then, and allows new tanks to use STR accessories while leveling until VIT ones also become available).

This change alone would just anger a lot of tank players, since we would be losing attack power from the 270 STR pieces without gaining anything in return.

So to take the sting off this change, the devs could add a different incentive to upgrading your accessories aside from the extra max HP.

Here are a few ideas on how to do this.

a) Make every role-locked tank accessory give you a certain amount of Tenacity, in addition to the secondary stats
Basically, treat Tenacity like an extra "main stat" on tank accessories and put it on every piece in addition to VIT.

For example, the i310 tank accessories could be changed to have 113 VIT, 111 Tenacity PLUS whatever secondary stats they had already.

This would be awkward to implement without removing Tenacity as a substat on accessories, which might be tricky. However, in conjunction with my next suggestion, you could swap Tenacity for Direct Hit on tank accessories, and then also add Tenacity to each piece as you would VIT.

Also, with the current scaling on Tenacity, this would still be rather weak on its own IMO, especially with the loss of STR from locking out the 270 accessories.

b) Allow tank accessories (and only accessories) to have Direct Hit as a secondary stat on the pieces themselves
It's definitely worse than STR, but Direct Hit is currently one of - if not the strongest - tank secondary stat available right now, and yet tanks can only get it via melding, which you only want to do on left-side pieces and weapons because STR melds take precedence on VIT accessories.

IF (BIIIIG if) the dev team plans on preventing tanks from getting STR from their accessories outside of melds, making Direct Hit more available to tanks would be a good thing.

c) Give tank accessories defence and magical defence stats equivalent to our belt slot
Another angle would be to incentivize upgrading our accessories to boost our mitigation with higher defences.

From a lore perspective, I'm not sure how this would work. Magical accessories of protection that only resonate and/or activate with tank job stones...?

While this likely wouldn't make up for being locked out of STR scaling on right-side pieces, increasing tanks' mitigation on accessories would - potentially - allow for slightly more damage stance uptime and/or slightly fewer healer GCDs, compared to current VIT accessories.

~~~

Anyway, that's my two dollars and change on the matter.

In a perfect world, my ideal fix for this issue would be implementing suggestions one and two above: add slower scaling STR to tank accessories, and also make VIT boost enmity.

Realistically though, I'm just hoping that IF they lock tanks out of STR accessories entirely that they give tanks something decent in return.

All I can hope now is that the dev team takes this into consideration before patch 4.05 goes live in two weeks.

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This change on its own does have a downside though. As DPS and healers continue to scale better from their accessories, enmity will eventually become a problem again and enmity modifiers will have to be gradually increased over time to compensate.

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No. It. Wont.

DPS and Healers need to manage their own enmity too, and tanks can circle jerk eachother for +56% TOTAL DIRECT enmity every 2 minutes with Shirk. So, no more of this ARR/HW mentality of "Use 1 Rage of Halone in Shjield Oath at the start of the fight then EZ mode tank the rest in Sword Oath, using DPS combos while wearing STR accessories" bullcrap. That's not tanking. That's DPSing with mild tank elements.

Diversion: Reduces enmity generation.
Shirk: Diverts 25% of enmity to target party member.
Tactician: Gradually restores own TPP and the TP of all nearby party members. Reduces enmity generation.
Refresh: Gradually restores own MP and the MP of all nearby party members. Reduces enmity generation.
Shadewalker: Grants target party member the effect of Silhouette, diverting to target 80% of all enmity generated by caster.
Smoke Screen: Creates a wall of smoke, reducing enmity generation of a single party member.
Elusive Jump: Executes a jump to a location 15 yalms behind you, while removing any Heavy or Bind effects.Additional Effect: Reduces enmity by half


LEARN TO USE THEM.

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

Nah they mean they can't balance tank power and hp levels easily. Instead of going 100 vit 100 str, they can go 50 vit 200 str and keep the damage and health reasonable at different levels.

If they put str on the accessories it'd honestly make a better argument.

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how does that make any sense

like, do they not want you to have all the hp you can get as a tank? that doesn't make any sense. tank damage was not even that high in hw... if tanks were outdpsing dps its because classes like bard were awfully designed for leveling contents or players just sucked. maybe both.

either way, dont care. if you're having trouble holding threat and need str gear from last expansion to do so its because you're not a good tank xD maybe something changes at 70 but i have had no problems keeping threat at all. if you are paying attention and/or communicating it should not be difficult to eliminate whatever issue players are having.