Dam. meter

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Are you .

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Ofc not. Like the other person said. If you had one you would mostlikely fix it yourself. Some still wouldnt and thats their issue. Some people do get told in a good way too. The Main issue is, even if you feed someone with good advice and candy, they still get offended. What would you do if the healer said you needed improvement and gave you a dps guide?

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Originally Posted by Yeol

in your situation, I wouldn't care since we are clearing the content. But please don't defend bad players. Defending them won't make them improve.

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This very much. Most people dont get it.

This is getting tiring with so many threads popping up about this lol. I've said this before and I'll say it again.. The only way I would Find a parser acceptable is to add them to training dummies so that anyone can test there DPS, in Private, on there own time, and NOT everyone elses. The best way to do that would to be update Stone, Sky, Sea to provide this so players can see more then just a bar of depleting HP lol. Besides.. If your a PC Player, chances are that you're already using a 3rd party program that the Devs (and yoshida said himself when the question was asked AGAIN at the last Fan Fest) are well aware that players are using them.

(Semi Off topic side note: New & most returning players can't even access Stone, Sky, Sea until they unlock HW content and get to Idylshire. This was not very well thought out lol It would be wise to add new NPCs in ARR and now SB areas to give access to Stone, Sky, Sea)

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Are you saying that Harassing, bullying and embarrassing a person motivates them to improve?

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People, who insult others on a daily basis don't need a parser to do so. Even if they don't use it, they will still complain about something and will find a "prey".

Don't let that one moment to discourage you and, while at it, you can check some good NIN guides out there to improve. You can even ask a friend to look at your DPS/rotation and help you.


Long time ago, my good friend got blamed in World of Warcraft of how low (500 DPS) he was performing in dungeons as a Hunter. Then he asked me for advice(he didn't complained or something) and i helped him to improve his DPS to 2k(400% increase) in a ONE day. He then purchased two Beer (wooden, 2kg ea) kegs for me in a bar, we emptied one and i took a "second one" home with me. That was a good reward xD

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

I'm gonna be a little rude, but that is just flat out BS. If you're simply paying attention you can spot those that are doing really well. It can be very obvious in XIV.

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Depends on each person view. From my point this is "flat out BS", because in a serious boss fight i don't have the time to look at how other people are doing they rotations/DPS cycles/etc, i need to perform my opener and wildfire combo, dodge AoE's to make healer life easier and such. I'm sure Ninja's don't have that luxury too. As a tank, you, sometimes, have that moments, when you can look @ others.

In easy content, like (for example), Void Ark/4-people-dungeons/etcetc - you have all the time in the world to look at what other people are doing, but it's not important there. In Savage content you don't have that luxury and look at parser numbers after the fight (or a fast glimpse during "boss invulnerable/transform" moments).

TL;DR All depends on content. As you said yourself, parser help people, when they know how to use it and utilize information from it. It's not that hard in most cases.

Someone said about idea of in-game parsers implemented in Savage content, which i think is quite good. You don't go into Savage content to play with a left leg, while eating and watching Netflix(right?).


p.s. I've been myself a 100% ArP Rogue.

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Originally Posted by Yeol

I've been to parties where we fail dps check and the person with the lowers dps is the one complaining about it. I don't blame him, no one faced him and told him the truth.
What do people do in such situations? They either kick the player without warning or disband the party.

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^ Yeol is right there. I've encountered those parties/situations too.

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Originally Posted by Jadub2k

The only way I would Find a parser acceptable is to add them to training dummies so that anyone can test there DPS, in Private, on there own time, and NOT everyone elses.

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What you just described is completely useless. Any parse number is meaningless by itself without others to compare it to, not to mention an unmoving training dummy isn't a very good way to test your dps for multiple reasons

If you ask me addons like Skada (not only damage done, but taken, interrupts, fails at mechanics, overhealing, damage mitigation, etc), combat logs and death recaps are mandatory, the more info you have the better. When I was a RL I wanted to be informed before taking any decision.

People always use the excuse of dicks and what not, but in my experience even when you are polite and offer enough information some still act as kids. At the end of the day is more about not getting their egos hurts than anything else.

While I would like to have a damage meter so I can improve myself, personal experience has shown me that majority will abuse the damage meter to demean and insult other players so they themselves can feel better. If everyone used the damage meter with the intend to help their fellow players, then there would not be any excuse for SE to add them to the game. But SE has seen from other mmorpg's that the damage meter will do more harm then good. People who are friends or raiders who play toghter often will use the tool to improve and help their fellow players, but a stranger in the DF, probably wont do the same.

I have seen people mention how the damage meter is not abused in WoW right now and while I can not confirm this, I do know that when the addon was released in the first 2-3 years, I witnessed the community become a toxic cesspool, this is when WoW community also started getting a bad reputation. People were excluding others alot of content, newcomers were abused and excluded from content and the worst was when people started to use the damage meter in level 15-70 dungeons and kicking newcomers for not meeting the standards that they have set.

With FFXIV, I do not know if our community will be as bad as the one in WoW, but right now we already have people being very toxic towards others. At the end of the day, if someone is a bad player and does not care, they will not change, even if there is a damage meter.

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Originally Posted by TheMax1087

What you just described is completely useless. Any parse number is meaningless by itself without others to compare it to, not to mention an unmoving training dummy isn't a very good way to test your dps for multiple reasons

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Yes, Exactly.. And possibly just as useless as the same multiple reasons for not adding one to the game by wasting devtime to make an Official Parse when (as I said in my post) People are ALREADY using them.. If your on PS your just out of luck. Because this games track record has shown that releasing a half-baked system will not be anywhere near what a 3rd party program is doing, and I myself do not want that or parse in general. They themselves for years now have expressed multiple times that they do not want to put dev time into one, & as long as this game remains in "Play it Safe mode" its never going to happen..

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Originally Posted by Laerune

With FFXIV, I do not know if our community will be as bad as the one in WoW, but right now we already have people being very toxic towards others. At the end of the day, if someone is a bad player and does not care, they will not change, even if there is a damage meter.

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If you guys don't take constant action towards those who are bad by default and are unwilling to improve, then they'll never learn. Until now the community just 'meh'-d over it all and probably have caused this exact meter debate in the first place.
We don't want to get bogged down in arguments during dungeons and raids, instead the wish for a meter derives for clear cut evidence of significant underperformers we wish ourselves to get rid of.

When they are unwilling to heed advice, strive for self-improvedment or even check for guides on these forums/reddit/dedicated websites, then they have no place in progression oriented duties.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

If you guys don't take constant action towards those who are bad by default and are unwilling to improve, then they'll never learn. The community just 'meh'-d over it all and probably have caused this exact meter debate in the first place.
We don't want to get bugged down in arguments during dungeons and raids, instead the wish for a meter derives for clear cut evidence of underperformers we wish ourselves to get rid of.

When they are unwilling to heed advice, strive for self-improvedment or even check for guides on these forums/reddit/dedicated websites, then they have no place in progression oriented duties.

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Only thing we can do is advice them, but if they wont listen then its either kick them out or ignore and continue. You can not force them to change, if they they do not care. A damage meter will show the underpreformers, but how much harm will it do the community, compared the good that it can do. Past experience has shown me that they bring more harm then good. SE too think this is the case, which is why we do not have official addon support or a damage meter in the game.

If you are looking for underpreformers, you can always use the parsers that people are already using and advice the underpreformer, if they wont listen, kick them out or ignore them.

Here is the thing, you may think this would only be used to get rid of the worst of the worst, but in reality it will be used to give players of any skill a bad time, as people treat each other as a number, looking at the parser to see which attempt excuses the kick.

On an public scale, parsers are not effective in public settings. Hardly anyone knows each other well enough in a pug to demonstrate how parsers can help improve

On a private scale, where you've raided with the same people over time, parsers help alot because everyone knows what everybody else does at what time. People are more receptive to improving onself because trust and camaraderie already exist.

If SE ever publicly supports and add parsers to the game, I hope they put a hard stance that it should be only in private groups, where everyone already acknowledges they are being/using a parser.

it is a tool, like a knife or any hand tool
it can do good as well as do harm
toxic people do not need a tool to do harm to other, good player will find their way to improve themselve, bad player will remain bad player regardless he/she given a tool or not
but giving a tool to a worker, he/she done the job better, giving a tool to a psychopath, he/she done the harm more
SE have clearly state their stance on it, and as what i have experience in MMO with such tool,
I stand strongly aside SE with it

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Only thing we can do is advice them, but if they wont listen then its either kick them out or ignore and continue. You can not force them to change, if they they do not care. A damage meter will show the underpreformers, but how much harm will it do the community, compared the good that it can do. Past experience has shown me that they bring more harm then good. SE too think this is the case, which is why we do not have official addon support or a damage meter in the game. If you are looking for underpreformers, you can always use the parsers that people are already using and advice the underpreformer, if they wont listen, kick them out or ignore them.

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Oh, I do use my own judgement about this all whom I throw out or not, don't worry about that. However, this stance of player expectation only goes far until the next group, where possibly the tank/dps/healer with a thousand-yard stare and doing their 500'th random roulette will not care about this all as long the dungeon gets done, either in 20 or 60 minutes.

And you guys need to chill out on the 'I will be kicked on a whim because of my DPS' negativity - As long you can play your job right and within the expectations of how SE thinks you should play it, nearly everyone will not give you crap about that.

For everything else, you drop a ticket and customer support will deal with it as they do now. Harassment, in any kind of way, is no laughing matter and if you don't bother even filing a report about that issue, nothing and no one will change.

I know in WoW it was a tool that created a very toxic community. One reason why I quit eso was due to its toxity for having one and players criticizing and harassing tanks and healers for low dps.

If ffxiv implements such tool, even simple trials and MSQ dungeons won't be safe from harassment

I would also like to point out that people parse anyway. If I go into a savage raid someone knows the damage numbers. If I go into a extreme trial, someone knows the damage numbers! It's used anyway and after all the times I've played abuse occurs when the dps check isn't met or enrage. Only then do people mention the parse data!

So I guess they should remove the dps checks and enrage then due to abuse? If a dev is going to make hitting a damage target a thing lets have a tool to help us reach that damage target.

I actually find more 1 clickers or semi afk players than the "elitist toxic" ones. Parser already exist in game. Why people dont offend or talk shit, is because its againts tos. That rule will still be there if they going to get one offically. And if a player do listen to advice me and others are more than welcome to help them. But please, dont question yourself why you get kicked for not doing what you are supposed to. Ive seen people get kicked and wonder why. Till its been said in party after... this happens because its either disband or kick the afk player.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

Parsers exist in World of Warcraft for 12+ years, and nobody is salty, fear them or feel "insulted" by them.

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Do you realize though that even now people are afraid to join content out of fear of being judged?

Just because you don't notice these people, doesn't mean they're not there.

Here is another thing "dam. meter" reminded me of:

Players of FFXIV, no poor sap ever won a dungeon by dying for their country. They won it by being all that they can be. Damn the dam meters, or give me death! Eternal vigilance is the price of duty. And, to the victors go the spoils. So remember: you are the best of the best of the few and the proud. So ask not what your country can do for you, only regret that you have but one life to live! The war against the Gimpinites will be won! Player Elite, let the first shot be fired! Search out the gimpinties and meter 'em all!

kk, again, real comment:
Now I understand some arguing it should be on the player not the tool, it is something I used to bring pvp chat back. The thing is, the player base already proved meters in a public setting would be more harm then good. Every time I see a reference to DPS or FF logs is intent to put someone down, not help them. It is kinda strange though SE has such a strong policy on commenting on someone's DPS with all the DPS checks in the game...

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

This might be hard to believe, but before SSS was even a thing, and while the job was new, I effectively taught myself a proper MCH rotation. By the time solid rotation(s) began to pop up online, I saw it and said "Wow, this is almost exactly what I already do." And as I said before, I've been a console player since the start.

It might be tougher to learn the job/rotation well without a parser, but it's hardly impossible.

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So did I but it wasn't as optimal. MCH have it easier than others though since our WF shows us a number at the end. It's not the rotation that's the biggest issue though. A stationary target is easy but in a raid knowing how I perform under stress is very useful.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Do you realize though that even now people are afraid to join content out of fear of being judged?

Just because you don't notice these people, doesn't mean they're not there.

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When the ones you talk about have raid anxiety, then they should go with their friends or fc members first. There is much less pressure present when you are around people who you know and can trust.
Once you built up enough experience and confidence with the mechanics, you can take a step further and enter dungeon finder queues.

There's no reason why people should beat themselves up because of this.
Take a step back, breathe, surround yourself with who you are comfortable with, then try again.

Personally I don't really care about in game dps meter, I doubt they'll provide as much functionality and features as ACT combined with FFlogs (I especially like the ability to compare your parse with another parse to see where you can improve).

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Originally Posted by Laerune

While I would like to have a damage meter so I can improve myself, personal experience has shown me that majority will abuse the damage meter to demean and insult other players so they themselves can feel better. If everyone used the damage meter with the intend to help their fellow players, then there would not be any excuse for SE to add

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Everything you said happens in this game already hence all the no bonus parties the only type of raid or trail a new comer is accepted into is a learning group. So essentially there would be no difference at all we need a praiser in this game if even for just personal use many players wont them. The actual damage we see on the screen is so misleading compared to how much we may be doing per second. If SE isnt gona do it I think Ps4 should make some kind of device to aid players that play their games in knowing their damage as well its just a disservice not to know for those whom want to improve

People keep mentioning dev time. Have you run pvp? At the end it shows how much dmg you did, took, healing. So the game already has a tracking system in place. Just put a bar on our screen with a little number that changes. Shouldn't be too hard. But i guess they are too busy thinking up more things to add to the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

People keep mentioning dev time. Have you run pvp? At the end it shows how much dmg you did, took, healing. So the game already has a tracking system in place. Just put a bar on our screen with a little number that changes. Shouldn't be too hard. But i guess they are too busy thinking up more things to add to the cash shop.

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that is not the reason it is not in the game...:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Here is another thing "dam. meter" reminded me of:

Players of FFXIV, no poor sap ever won a dungeon by dying for their country. They won it by being all that they can be. Damn the dam meters, or give me death! Eternal vigilance is the price of duty. And, to the victors go the spoils. So remember: you are the best of the best of the few and the proud. So ask not what your country can do for you, only regret that you have but one life to live! The war against the Gimpinites will be won! Player Elite, let the first shot be fired! Search out the gimpinties and meter 'em all!

kk, again, real comment:
Now I understand some arguing it should be on the player not the tool, it is something I used to bring pvp chat back. The thing is, the player base already proved meters in a public setting would be more harm then good. Every time I see a reference to DPS or FF logs is intent to put someone down, not help them. It is kinda strange though SE has such a strong policy on commenting on someone's DPS with all the DPS checks in the game...

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Personally I don't really care about in game dps meter, I doubt they'll provide as much functionality and features as ACT combined with FFlogs (I especially like the ability to compare your parse with another parse to see where you can improve).

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Actually this is one more reason why a dps meter doesn't need to be implemented. No point wasting resources on a damage meter when third-party programs will always provide better information, which is the main reason why WoW, the king of add-on requirements, hasn't implemented their own version of a parser.

Ya know, there's a super-easy way of gauging your dps through a simple game called "Is it dead?". All you have to do is ask yourself "is it dead?", and if it is, then your dps is just fine. If it's not dead, then clearly you're not doing enough damage. No numbers, no ToS violations, and it's so easy that even someone who doesn't know their rotation can do it!

Now in a group, playing "is it dead?" can be much trickier since you could be doing your best and still not succeed at making that thing dead. That's when you have to do something called "looking around"--I know, quite a difficult feat during a fight, but still doable--and assess who can improve their damage. Of course, this requires a basic level of knowledge for each job, so if you currently do not possess such knowledge, it is best to let someone who does make such assessments before making judgments and showing that inner scumbag of yours, and no one wants to see that. Some examples of these circumstances would be as follows:

1) Is your healer bouncing around like their bored out of their mind? Suggest to them that they can switch to Cleric Stance and do some damage if healing is not currently a problem for them, but do not attempt to force this upon them, as they have a more important role to perform than whatever it is that you're doing.

2) Is your tank holding threat against that "monstrous" dps of yours? This means that for a tank, they are doing enough so that you can do enough, and that is all that is necessary for the one person who keeps your alleged "pain train" running at top speed. If you do not feel that they are doing enough damage, just remember that a tank pretending to be a dps means that a dps will need to pretend to be a tank.

3) Is that one other dps not using that buff that makes them do better at whatever it is that they're supposed to do? If not, then tell them that there is that buff that they should be using so that they don't feel like the pathetic dead weight that you currently perceive them to be.

4) Is that one Black Mage spamming Blizzard spells like they are suffering from a permanent case of brain freeze? If so, then kindly suggest to them that their Fire spells will do far more damage. If they disregard your suggestion or appear not to care about it, then clearly they must not care about being in a group with your pure awesomeness.

5) Does that other dps keep dying to avoidable things? Politely suggest to that Dragoon--er, that other dps, that they will do far more damage the longer they live, and if they refuse, feel free to hit them with a rolled-up newspaper and tell them to stop doing that and that no one cares about their "stacks" if it means that their death will make whatever that special buff of theirs is fall off upon their inevitable demise.

6) Does everything seem to be going well and yet that thing still isn't dead? Maybe it's you, EVER THINK OF THAT? OF COURSE NOT YOU WHINY, ARROGANT *expletive deleted*!!

....okay, enough of me and my usual level of condescending sarcasm, we seriously don't need a damage meter. If you really want to know damage that badly, look around at people in the raid, check buffs, and--most importantly--get comfortable enough with your job so that you can be at your maximum while still being able to do all that.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Ya know, there's a super-easy way of gauging your dps through a simple game called "Is it dead?". All you have to do is ask yourself "is it dead?", and if it is, then your dps is just fine. If it's not dead, then clearly you're not doing enough damage.

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This advice is really only infallible in solo content. "Just do better" isn't the greatest way to coax better numbers out of situations where someone may not know what's what, which is what a lot of your advice boils down to.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

All you have to do is ask yourself "is it dead?", and if it is, then your dps is just fine.

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I still don't get this idea that all that matters is doing enough to clear. Optimization should be a goal, not saying "Eh, good enough."

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I still don't get this idea that all that matters is doing enough to clear. Optimization should be a goal, not saying "Eh, good enough."

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Optimization is only really required for high end content and even then not by much unless your doing the content under geared. so in the case of 80% of the content in this game "eh, good enough" is fine. Might not sit well with you but you don't get to whine and moan and complain about people not doing their jobs to your standards as no one has to care about your standards as long as the content standards are met.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Optimization is only really required for high end content and even then not by much unless your doing the content under geared. so in the case of 80% of the content in this game "eh, good enough" is fine. Might not sit well with you but you don't get to whine and moan and complain about people not doing their jobs to your standards as no one has to care about your standards as long as the content standards are met.

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I didn't say required, I said it should be a goal. I want to perform well for my teammates, and that should be universal. It's the same as any other group activity. Why should this game be different?

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

I didn't say required, I said it should be a goal.

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Everyone wants to play optimally. Nobody WANTS to be bad. Problem is, the abusers don't care about that. All that matters to them is that they played badly. For them, the sheer fact that someone did poorly is all the justification they need in order to harass someone.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Everyone wants to play optimally. Nobody WANTS to be bad. Problem is, the abusers don't care about that. All that matters to them is that they played badly. For them, the sheer fact that someone did poorly is all the justification they need in order to harass someone.

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You know that's BS, or you've never used DF in this game.

This game's slogan is "You don't pay my sub." This community is defined by people who actively avoid optimal play because they don't feel like it or don't like being told what to do.

Hell, they are posting in this thread.

When I see other MMO communities make fun of this one, that is the normal thing to pick on. We actively fight to shield and even promote mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You know that's BS, or you've never used DF in this game.

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Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

When I see other MMO communities make fun of this one, that is the normal thing to pick on. We actively fight to shield and even promote mediocrity.

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Nobody PROMOTES bad or mediocre play. People just don't want to get harassed. MMO communities make fun of each other all the time. This game as a LOT more issues than some people not trying as hard as they should be. It doesn't surprise me to hear this game being made fun of.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

This game's slogan is "You don't pay my sub."

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That horse has been dead for years. Never and I mean NEVER in all of my years playing this game, have I heard someone say that. I saw it used as an argument on the forums years ago, but never in game.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

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Then you must be extremely lucky. I have to kick someone trying to get carried probably once a week.

I routinely get dungeons where I'm top DPS in Shield Oath PLD. That should NEVER happen.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

-snip-

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Exactly!

And you know what, had a 53 WHM in Aery once, he wasn't a good healer but instead of saying "Your healing numbers are too low mate, you need to get better", I told him what he could do to increase his healing output. Healers don't have a fixed rotation, everything I know came from practice. And you know what, he was a better player after that run. He didn't feel bad about himself and the game will keep a player that might become a really good healer eventually.

It's easy to detect this kind of stuff.
Parsers should stay where they are, limited to hardcore end-game static or PF groups and MAYBE something on a dummy to optimize rotations.
I still prefer the natural evolution of a player over the fabricated One-Rotation-To-Rule-Them-All)

And by all means, I am not defending bad players in Hardcore content.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

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You are ether:
1. Extremely lucky
2. Queue with 2/3 friends
3. Doing 1 DF a day and think it is a good sample size.
4. You do not know how to see it(meaning you NEVER found top end play so there for do not know what true speed is. If we are quoting expert, Proper DPS can kill the sloppy guy right around the second round of spears. If both DPS, tank and healer are outputing, you will not even see the second round fall.)

Id say 3 out of 4 DFs has someone slacking, as in improperly geared (as in wearing crafter gear, gear that does not match the job, or ilevel dodging an important slot like having all 130 level on the left side, yes i seen a 12000 hp blm before in expert.), do not know rotations, so on. 2 out of these 4 is 2 or 3 being the problem. I had a tank left yesterday who was small pulling flat out say "I rather play league and I feel like being lazy to small pull" and left on his own, even though where we at 70% progress.

A while ago I had 2 slow dps, one on my sever, or our server rather, and I message him that it be a good idea to find a good rotation guide ( I believe I made this comment because this group saw 3 spears fall) while being near top geared. I can't remember if they had alex gear or simply all 270 slots but the point is he was geared enough for proper rotation to not have that 3rd round appear. He told me it was fine, it is just a game, does not care, and I am the first person that ever said anything. This tells me people in general lack observation skills.

Telling someone they have room for improvement or that their lack of effort is noticeable is not harassment. I do not understand for the life of me why it is bad to point out bad DPS rotations but people have a right to harass healers when someone dies. In a different DF I was trying to tell this BLM to AoE rotate because things are staying up too long burning my MP. People got on my case for the wipe saying I was not healing, and that the blm was fun (the blm was not fine) and was kicked for it.

Me and my friend routinely find leveling DFs where we are the top DPS on SCH (in different runs ofc), one worth noting my friend found a Sohm AI run where her SCH did top, then the DRK in mostly grit, then the 2 dps. The only "big exaggeration" here is your own statement.

On the forums "Nobody PROMOTES bad or mediocre play." is true, but in DF, most of the time, people you expect you to deal with the bad play, thus promoting it, because it is only xxxxx, it is easy. I left an aery when vote kick failed because of a group had this mentality, I will not tolerate it.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

Well see that's just the thing. I've never seen anyone in DF slacking off on the magnitude that people on this forum say they do. My friends don't do it. Nobody I know on my server does it. I think it's a big exaggeration.

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I've seen averaging 900-1000~ ("Friends parser") dps iLvl 260+ more times than I can count on my fingers, and I don't even run dungeons that much. What are you supposed to say to that? Do everything differently? This game has a problem with players never wanting to go beyond what's necessary- and SE is partially to blame for making the baseline braindead. It's not as exaggerated as you or I'd like to believe.

All tools can be abused. We'd have a pretty boring game if "Don't add it, it will be abused" was an excuse for everything.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I know in WoW it was a tool that created a very toxic community. One reason why I quit eso was due to its toxity for having one and players criticizing and harassing tanks and healers for low dps.

If ffxiv implements such tool, even simple trials and MSQ dungeons won't be safe from harassment

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Bah, allow parser only for Trial Ex and Raid Savage. It's midcore contents, it should be okay.

I agree with everyone whos pointing out the vast amount of bad/lazy dps players you get to meet in DF.

It's far from big exaggeration, its reality. I pretty much do Exp/60/50/Trial/Lvling almost every day, and I outdps at least one DPS almost every time as a HEALER.
I've seen properly geared dps players in Expert doing 600 dps. Badly geared ones doing 300 dps. Jesus, I do more hitting 1-2-3 on the same class , I even do more when im synched to lvl 50.

People need to stop defending laziness. As many, many, many times pointed out already....it is NOT harassment to point out laziness.
It's more about HOW to go about it and approach the issue. And if people didnt start with their defensive "u dont pay for my sub" attitude,
I bet you most people would be less toxic and more willing to help.

As for people saying "Ive never seen anyone say "I play how i want" or "its my sub" " ....Neither have I........until a few months ago. Nowadays, I hear it on a regular basis, so to me, it seems
like a more recent phenomenon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

All tools can be abused. We'd have a pretty boring game if "Don't add it, it will be abused" was an excuse for everything.

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The argument goes both ways.
It would be insane if they added everything the community asks.

Hence, this thread. lol