Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

We also have to consider, which cross classes are available for the job, so we can have a look at it's full potential.

Since it is a melee mix from white and black magic and also using a piercing weapon, the cross classes would obviously white and black mage and due to the piercing weapon dragoon or gladiator for the sword like weapon.

what are the options then?

Quick cast, protect, stone skin, cleric stance.

and tp recovery and high damage from dragoon or flash light and aggro skill from glad.

depending if it will be dps (dragoon) or a tank (gladiator) we get a different 3rd cross class.

since i see it like most other people as dps due to the fact that the class would be int-based (it would be HARSH for a tank to be int-based), it would have a lot of supportive stuff and high dps by default (cleric stance)

if i compare the heal potential of a rdm with another class that has druid as cross class, i would inevitably look towards the paladin. And i guess, there would be also a high cost healing spell for redmages. on the dps side, he would use piercing combos with magic.

so a combination from strength and int would be necessary for the concept to work.

for that i'd look to the dragoons equipment, which is solitary at the moment.

but would make sense, when the cross class for rdm were lancer.

U would probably run with cleric stance on all the time but only when it's necessary switch to heal.

and dual cast from rdm would be like the spell u cast will be cast a 2nd time without mp cost immediatly.

think of that when combined with quick cast. u can instaheal an almost dead tank or burst like a black mage for about 10-20k damage with that.

but the whole other time u would just deal average damage like ninja and do more of the support stuff like the bard.

i'm really looking forward to this class.

one word : provoke.... this was kind of my issue for a tank red mage, a dps could fairly cross both thm and cnj and still do its thang. Its not like they cant have their own provoke but then i feel like drk and war should get their own as well. i dont see lancer ever going to any tank cause of b4b being so detrimental unfortunately, but anythings possible i guess. Why pld cure sucks though is the weapon damage type isnt magical, all theyd have to do for a magic tank is give them a magic weapon damage stat and the cure would robably be close to eos's potencies

Edit: Honesly when i think about the stat adjustments the only real problem is skillspeed/spellspeed if were talking about a ranged/melee though they could just shove those two into attack speed or something and simplify the two stats into one

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

one word : provoke.... this was kind of my issue for a tank red mage, a dps could fairly cross both thm and cnj and still do its thang. Its not like they cant have their own provoke but then i feel like drk and war should get their own as well. i dont see lancer ever going to any tank cause of b4b being so detrimental unfortunately, but anythings possible i guess. Why pld cure sucks though is the weapon damage type isnt magical, all theyd have to do for a magic tank is give them a magic weapon damage stat and the cure would robably be close to eos's potencies

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hmmmm maybe in 4.0 SE removes crossclass for jobs and add specific job skills... new jobs suffer bcause of that "restriction" , all the tanks are forced on PLD for provoke...all casters are forced to have THM for quickcast.....ect

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

hmmmm maybe in 4.0 SE removes crossclass for jobs and add specific job skills... new jobs suffer bcause of that "restriction" , all the tanks are forced on PLD for provoke...all casters are forced to have THM for quickcast.....ect

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yeah this is very true, i mean they have no problem rearranging stats like parry and such or changing skills like lustrate to deal a potency instead of a flat health restore %(then turn around and give whm a similar skill) so They could, yeah.

I mean based on role that class is suppose to take, say if a Mage did become a tank would make more sense for that class to have its own Provoke or Swiftcast while allowing it to pull from the appropriate classes needed. Though if your tank is a mage, having 2 types of swiftcast would certainly bring about an interesting play I think. I mean its not the exact same but kinda the same feel you get with Swiftcast and Lightspeed on AST.

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

I can't see how they give red mage much offensive magic given how most of the other mage jobs have each elemental covered.

I wish someone would sit down and write out how they think red mage would work without it treading on another job so much that we have two of the same jobs. Sit and think about it and I bet very few will come up with a working job for red mage.

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RDM is supposed to overlap with BLM and WHM and to a certain extent PLD. that's what the job is. PLDs don't have AOE damage, RDM can spam Fire II to hold hate. PLD isn't Parry focused it's Shield Block focused.

RDM won't have the THM traits that let them stack Astral Fire so it will never do as much damage as a BLM and it shouldn't.
RDM might have Cures for self healing but don't give them Medica and it won't compete with WHM.
Refresh can work fine, RDM would use more MP then Auto-Refresh, Refresh would give them more MP back than Riot Blade does. RDM can also have traits that make self-casted Refresh more potent.
Phalanx can actually be RDM's Grit/Shield Oath/Defiance.

why does it matter if Double Cast is on a long recast? Cover is a traditional PLD ability and it has a long recast and is also hugely situational.

any new job will have to be balanced with the existing jobs in the game. why are you singling out RDM as the one that can never be balanced properly?

well if given tank role, it will definitely have melee as its larger focus...and then it will have to have alot of its skillset eaten by repeat abilities needed for a tank, kind of limits the whole spell list to maybe about what drk has currently, unless they cheese it and repackage ninja mudras, which could work but i wold be really straightfaced about it playing like that. I also thought of the idea of switching roles like stances, but then some skills would be unusable(ie:bloodweapon) if in certain stances limiting the amount of skills you have access to even worse. Unless they do sometiing like diurnal/noct or quilibrium where the skills effects change due to the role stance youre in

Geomancer tank?
Maybe?






(I'll go to the corner, now....)

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Geomancer tank?
Maybe?






(I'll go to the corner, now....)

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based off FFTactics geo? would be really neat imo

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

based off FFTactics geo? would be really neat imo

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That would be the likely source. They could use hammers and maces as their main weapon. The version in FFExplorers had a handful of defensive buffs that could translate, too.

Plus, if monk in Ala Mhigan, then Geomancer in their Feng Shui Warrior style could have roots tied to their city.

They could even incorporate the traditional Geomancy skill by have a few cooldowns/attacks that have a different added effect that changes depending on the environment.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

well if given tank role, it will definitely have melee as its larger focus...and then it will have to have alot of its skillset eaten by repeat abilities needed for a tank, kind of limits the whole spell list to maybe about what drk has currently

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it doesn't have to, we're only stuck in that mindset because all the existing ones do it. maybe trying to make it not have to is what will make the job different from all the other tanks.

and limited spell list is no big deal, BLM might have a bigger list but the 2.x rotation is more than 50% Fire 1 and the 3.x rotation is still dominated by Fire IV. SMN is supposed to be a casting job and it only has 4 main spells none of which has to do with summoning.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it doesn't have to, we're only stuck in that mindset because all the existing ones do it. maybe trying to make it not have to is what will make the job different from all the other tanks.

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Honestly, to be DF compatible every tank needs to have the tools to deal with the situations imposed by the dungeons/raids in the DF. There are tank busters so anti-tank buster moves are a given. I'm inclined to say a tank stance is given as well, as are several "aggro-spells" - whether they're a combo or not at least is up in the air. One of them however will be AoE and spammable. Likely some form of hard CC as well. And an "oh-snap" ultimate on a long CD. Oh, and it'll either have it's own provoke or cross class off GLD.

Basic tank toolkit - I doubt they'll make a tank that runs into situations where a properly geared one cannot do the content because he simply lacks the abilities to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Honestly, to be DF compatible every tank needs to have the tools to deal with the situations imposed by the dungeons/raids in the DF.

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Nothing I said implies they wouldn't have those tools. Those tools just don't have to be melee TP based combos.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Nothing I said implies they wouldn't have those tools. Those tools just don't have to be melee TP based combos.

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Agreed. I just feel the person you quoted earlier was in the right when he said a significant part of the skillset would (necessarily) be eaten by repeat abilities. I'd also agree that melee will be the focus of any tank, seeing as all mobs run to the target with aggro - and it would be a huge inconvenience for every melee to run after a kiting tank >_>

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

That would be the likely source. They could use hammers and maces as their main weapon. The version in FFExplorers had a handful of defensive buffs that could translate, too.

Plus, if monk in Ala Mhigan, then Geomancer in their Feng Shui Warrior style could have roots tied to their city.

They could even incorporate the traditional Geomancy skill by have a few cooldowns/attacks that have a different added effect that changes depending on the environment.

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Something tells me they would end up doing it like monks fist of wind/earth/fire but perhaps like "Aura of Forest/mountain/sea" or such to allow them access to all skills at that time, like a small animation involved grass popping around the Geomancer (kinda like Sephs ultimate) and so on for it. While I would prefer it be based on the enviorment, I'd assume once it gets added all boss battles from then on would have to allow the Geomancer to not be shunned cus of the terrain.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Agreed. I just feel the person you quoted earlier was in the right when he said a significant part of the skillset would (necessarily) be eaten by repeat abilities. I'd also agree that melee will be the focus of any tank, seeing as all mobs run to the target with aggro - and it would be a huge inconvenience for every melee to run after a kiting tank >_>

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There's a huge difference between a casting tank and a kiting tank. PLDs cast Flash and Clemency and they don't kite.

There's no functional difference between a RDM casting Fire II to hold aggro vs a PLD casting Flash or a WAR using Overpower.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

There's a huge difference between a casting tank and a kiting tank. PLDs cast Flash and Clemency and they don't kite.

There's no functional difference between a RDM casting Fire II to hold aggro vs a PLD casting Flash or a WAR using Overpower.

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Except that, as it stand so far, there are no traits to prevent interruption, only Surecast, and you cannot dodge, block, or parry during a cast. These things can easily be fixed, but their not being pointed out or having suggestions made to counter that makes the idea of, say, a parry/evasion-based caster tank rather contradictory.

I'm all for the concept of a mage tank, and see no reasons why it should be lacking in any tank capacity, though I would like it to at least feel different in more than just that I'm rotating periodic and filler casts rather than through TP combos. I would just also much rather see RDM as a versatile hybrid DPS. But, I feel like it's issues like those that give the concept a bad wrap, especially if anyone, like now, were to join in mid-conversation.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Snipysnip

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I quite like the idea of them working this way, with the terrain aura giving certain skills various buffs or added affects, but still having a core tank skill set.

I'm with you on the fact it would be tricky to balance as you would need to make sure certain terrains didn't give them a disadvantage, so it may need to be set EXACTLY like the monk stances to work, with the ability to change to defense/attack/speed/refresh/etc aura's as needed.

Still... It could totally work with the right toolkit. Plus, it wouldn't be so removed from the original iterations as what would need to happen to other jobs to be made into a tank. Even the appearance has a ton of wiggle room.

Although, if the devs opted for the Tactics/4 Heroes of Light aesthetic (which carries some Native American motifs), it would allow a tank player the chance to gear up in something other that heavy mail.

Imagine if they made it so you leveled one of the current classes and were handed a crystal that flipped your class to a new one, level 15 based on what you leveled and some RnG.

They could even recycle. Instead of a Dragoon, I become a Grand Dragoon or a Grand Conjurer. 15 rather than 1 so we could level back up in DF.

I think I need my head checked...

i would love to see a mage tank, my concern though, if you tank enough in this game, a kite tank might be fine for ranged dps, but melee? I thought maybe "sealing" abilities to hold the enemies in place so you can cast at range, maybe. Thats relly the only reason i say melee everyone knows hhow enemies act when they get/aggro someone, i just would like to know how youd make a kite tank work. I guess to me a lot of tanking in this game is gathering and clustering mobs, keeping them in place moving out of aoes, and trying to move them around to desirable spots that are ideal to your party without mocing them around so much.. so i guess aura spells can work great, maybe a ground drop doppleganger that keeps them thinking its you while you bomb them with enmity aoes?

I'm just gonna point out Explorers Geomancer had a monster trapping mechanic.

Kite tank with traps to hold mobs.


*goes back into corner*

get a new tank and healer for what? so we can grind through for FATE? *pukes*

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Originally Posted by Furiea

get a new tank and healer for what? so we can grind through for FATE? *pukes*

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Well we have NIN proving that if a new DPS class is out 90% of the playerbase will immediately go for it, shooting Dungeon queue times to the point where one would max out the timer before seeing a pop. Conversely adding a New Tank/Healer role will populate those roles, keeping Dungeons viable so that people at least can have an option other than FATEs

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Mage tank worry snip

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I've said it a few times but I feel they can work just fine facing the mobs head on. Should that be because they have their own version of Protect that boosts Def equal to a PLD or WAR for example or even if they just wear tanking gear, though I like the idea of them just using a spell. If they are built like a tank then it would be expected for them to get hit on, constantly moving would be horrible design choice that I can't see SE ever getting behind. However the worry when you hear mage or caster is interruption, so to counter that we simply give them the usual tank stance that increases Defense, Lowers attack, increases hate but also stops all interruptions except for the obvious reasons of stun and silence. On the flip side, we also give them the DPS stance where they boost attack power but are susceptible to normal interruption.

They could still have some spells that are instant like the common pull but also let them have AOE hate spells or hell, they could possibly forgo it all together and just cast an AOE Hate spell and let the mobs come to them while the DPS get into position. The one issue that does come to mind, do we give them a faster base MP regen or should they have a way to build it back either through a combo (similar to PLD) or something like BLM and umbral ice?

I see I see, well the mp regain is probably the easier part, maybe the spell could act sort of like foes does if left on before a pull and just generate enmity over a wide area that could work. The thing about fending gear is that it has both high physical and equally high m def so i would see them not really doing anything different or too different as its just perfect, if anything a little too good compared to mage gear being supposedly the inverse type of defense but not complaining tanks still get smacked pretty hard regardless of how much defense they have. I see your point and do believe they could make a mage tank work

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

There's a huge difference between a casting tank and a kiting tank. PLDs cast Flash and Clemency and they don't kite.
There's no functional difference between a RDM casting Fire II to hold aggro vs a PLD casting Flash or a WAR using Overpower.

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We would have a job that just facerolls over BLM like no yesterday. Also, last time I checked Flash and Fire II are not alike. Flash is instant vs casting time for fire II. Fire II also doesn't generate much enmity at all if the tank is actually doing his or her job. Can we have an actual creative discussion about RDM on the new thread created since there is still heated discussion? Still have no idea why people want to finish the holy trinity. I would rather have a more creative job then a rehash of a pld/drk/whm/sch/ast.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eral-dicussion

PS - How often do Paladins actually use Clemency? Last time I checked I had no problem healing as a white mage where they would need to use it. Brb going to actually count the times a paladin uses clemency in one day. Will report back my results tomorrow!

To be fair, only time I see a Paladin use it is when I am in cleric stance doing Gravity, asked him about it and he said simply so I could keep attacking longer. Outside of that it's rare to see.

normally cast it in town with clemency, or get my friends to for a party of warrior, scholar, monk and dragoon so i can have battle litany, whispering dawn, mantra and have the warrior pop defiance, convalasence and thrill....too much mp for practical use though outside of that. Ive only seen it used by friends when theyre about dead, parties wipping or someones ressing the healer

That's the only time I've seen it, too; when the healer is down. Or, when there is no healer, ala PotD.

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

Still have no idea why people want to finish the holy trinity.

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It can go even deeper than that. Red Mage is the only job used in Final Fantasy not found in FFXIV in some form. I mean the original Final Fantasy, FF1, on the NES.

It's so iconic and deeply ingrained into the series that it's more bizarre we don't have RDM than all our crazy theory crafting to work it in. Even if we tread into Mystic Knight territory to make it happen, people will be happy to have it, since it's finally Red Mage.

Plus, it's not like anyone is complaining that Monk isn't the overpowered as hell when bare-fisted, glass cannon of a party member it originally was since the class we got instead is so good.

^^This its mind boggling wed see DRK(ff3), MCH(FFT) or even AST(time mage?FFV) before the only job in the original game to be left out

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

^^This its mind boggling wed see DRK(ff3), MCH(FFT) or even AST(time mage?FFV) before the only job in the original game to be left out

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We'll if you -really- want to go back to the original game, lets also add thief to the game even though it would duplicate ninja in a lot of aspects just to round out the holy trinity everyone so desires.

Still haven't heard a good excuse why we need red mage besides the holy trinity.

(let's pretend armory system doesn't exist since square wants to do away with it in case the rogue excuse comes out)

Some people keep clamoring for the idea of RDM being a Tank, I truly feel that it would do the Class/ Job so very much an integral and beloved staple of the series a great disservice.

In post from before I used in it the example given by the Producers as to how Classes/ Jobs are chosen, developed, and implemented.

https://youtu.be/VpxsH2rBGuw Final Fantasy XIV PAX East 2015 Heavensward Presentation Stream
(job selection discussion begins at 22:20)

When one think on the the look of Red Mage what comes to mind?

1.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20110126065105
(this is FFXI concept art)

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/e/0/e04...67b022dbfd.png

2.
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120624084042

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120624084109

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130904024337
(all Rune fencers of FFXI)

Point being there are other FF Jobs that more readily "fit" the magic Tank role, along side the already implemented jobs that heavily focus on mp resource management and aggression holding mechanics. No need to sacrifice a Job more suited to a DPS role simply to hope for the off chance that Samurai not be placed in the Role it was originally envisioned in by the development team...(in link referenced above 28:20)

Once more it is completely possible this only reflects thought process and ideas that may have changed through the course of the year, until another Solid piece of evidence is given however I will continue to expect:

Samurai = Tank - (as many concepts were more than likely shelved once Dark Knight was chosen as the Tank for Heavensward and assets were left for later implementation to relieve work load/ development time due to Job implementation taking up to a year to complete) (seen at 25:02 in link provided above)

Red Mage = DPS (melee) - To possibly fit the Ala Mhigan Blade Dancer class, also to better expand on a particular character from the 2.0 story line. (referenced in FFXIV 1.0 as an enemy class "Thrill of the fight" level 36 GLD class quest)

Geomancer/ Shaman = Healer - (referenced in FFXIV main story line quest "Big trouble in little Ala Mhigo" as an npc healer working along side you in the encounter)

Whatever fits the lore in the coming expansion better.

I really don't care much about Duty Finder "imbalances". That's why I git gud at least one job per role.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Red Mage is not a fencer, he's a caster. The way RDM tanked in FFXI was by adding Mystic Knight traits and skills to it, completely crushing the RDM personality.

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Actually, RDM tanking entirely came from the fact that certain enfeebles generated a ton of enmity and a RDM spamming those spells could generate aggro faster than the jobs actually designed to tank.

The "RDM personality" you're trying to refer to is a job that was basically mediocre at everything. This works in a single-player RPG because you're not competing with anyone for spots in content and the only person affected by your choices is you. In an MMO that doesn't fly because the job has to be competitive in some way to be worth bringing to raids and boss fights. XI's RDM has had a LOT of trouble in anything that did not involve cure/refresh-botting, and that did a lot more to kill RDM than whether they got Enspells or Phalanx (both of which actually fit the idea of a guy that swings a sword and casts magic quite well).

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Originally Posted by Beckett

Logically, I don't think there's room for a fourth healer

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We still have HoT-based healing (granted, they'd have to deal with the fact that HoT overhealing generates enmity before this becomes a viable healing approach), reactive healing and abilities that double as heals or attacks depending on your target. There are a couple of approaches to healing left. I still wish they'd bring in Chemist and Green Mage into the healing roster.

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

En-spells would end up being much like flash. I have a hard time seeing where it would fit anywhere without it treading on too much of another job.

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Considering no other job can enchant their weapons, enspells don't encroach on anyone. You can also tie enspells to certain abilities to get specific effects while also acting as damage boosts for a RDM. On top of this, you could have a max MP penalty to activating enspells.

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Some have also mentioned giving red mage double cast, another great ability in theory, but they would say they can't add it due tor balance issues.

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That sort of already exists with abilities like Duality (NIN).

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I can't see how they give red mage much offensive magic given how most of the other mage jobs have each elemental covered.

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One does not prevent the other. RDM borrows from WHm and BLM, so a RDM having their own version of Fire/Blizzard/Thunder (probably with different names) would make sense.

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We can also discuss Phalanx, Refresh, any of the abilities from 11 if you want, but do you think they will give them any meaningful times they would last?

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Durations should be short, cooldowns should be long, utility should be relatively good. As I've always argued, Phalanx could be a cooldown that decreases damage taken by a party member, thus giving RDM some utility they can provide depending on the situation. Refresh is very likely to behave like Goad, which I don't really have a problem with due to Goad's longish cooldown.

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I wish someone would sit down and write out how they think red mage would work without it treading on another job so much that we have two of the same jobs.

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Obsessing over uniqueness for its own sake is a losing proposition, as you severely limit your options. That said, here.

I think we will get 2 jobs but they will each have 2 soul stones kind of like ach does for smn/sch
Red Mage - 2 soul stones. RDM-Healer and RDM-DPS. Fits with the class being able to heal and do damage.
Samurai - 2 soul stones. SAM-DPS, and SAM-Tank

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Originally Posted by Duelle

One does not prevent the other. RDM borrows from WHm and BLM, so a RDM having their own version of Fire/Blizzard/Thunder (probably with different names) would make sense.
Obsessing over uniqueness for its own sake is a losing proposition, as you severely limit your options. That said, here.

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If we can't have uniqueness, why add any new jobs at all? Keep refining existing jobs. 11 reached that point and 14 will reach that point at some point. (There are still PLENTY of unique jobs they could make for this game)

Also last I checked Fire/Blizzard/Thunder were all domain of Black Mage. What are they going to draw from white mage? another rehashed version of cure that will still be inferior to white mage due to red mages inherent nature of being the best at nothing? Stone magic is intertwined a bit into the white mage storyline. Square likes their little bubble they made right now, and I doubt they will let another job have the same magic skills as another. Also dual utility as a dps and healer would hurt their bubble of "we have to have a tank, a healer, and DPS, no exceptions".

-----As a point of reference, and I believe it is fair and just to reference it even though some people groan about it, the reason red mage worked well in 11 is because white mage and black mage had wide access to a LOT of different spells compared to 14. You give them too many spells that white mage and black mage already have and you have a job you can already play, right this minute! If WHM or BLM had more spells, I would say by all means go for it and create the holy trinity (almost complete, missing thief). I also disagree with the fact 11 made red mage into some "sit in the back and heal/haste/refresh" job since they had a lot of utility later on with soloing. When refresh and got added as a subjob ability (due to level cap rising), you saw a lot more people trying to venture out and have red mage play a different role. I remember plenty of those dual wielding sword red mages, or that red mage/ninja combo! ----

I still think Puppetmaster would fit better into the storyline if they intend to go for Ala Mhigo then any job presented so far. Just my two cents :). Will report back in 12 hours about how many times I've seen clemency today!

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think we will get 2 jobs but they will each have 2 sole stones kind of like ach does for smn/sch
Red Mage - 2 soul stones. RDM-Healer and RDM-DPS. Fits with the class being able to heal and do damage.
Samurai - 2 soul stones. SAM-DPS, and SAM-Tank

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This (I'm sorry I have to be the one to break it to you) has got to be the worst idea posted on this thread. Square has said they hate the arcanist (how it breaks off into SCH and SMN) and it would never happen again. I believe there was a lot of moaning and groaning from the community about this as well. I hope you truly do not believe they would make two jobs that follow in the same light.

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Originally Posted by Nyerieri

This (I'm sorry I have to be the one to break it to you) has got to be the worst idea posted on this thread. Square has said they hate the arcanist (how it breaks off into SCH and SMN) and it would never happen again. I believe there was a lot of moaning and groaning from the community about this as well. I hope you truly do not believe they would make two jobs that follow in the same light.

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Yes because RDM is a job that can use both black and white magic in previous FF games. In order to do that in FFXIV it needs to be able to do 2 different roles since we have the trinity of job roles.

I'd prefer to see red mage as a DPS than tank. It could be the melee form of a bard. Or a melee mage. That sounds more interesting to me than a tank red mage spamming fire 2. I do that enough for aoe pulls on black mage. :p

Yes, red mage can use white and black magic but I feel like some of you guys are focusing on that aspect too much. White magic can be used to inflict damage and buff people, it isn't just healing. Black magic is also seen to support people (apocastatis), and destroy them. The developers will change whatever is necessary to make jobs work. They could end up using a new form of magic in eorzea called red magic and just throw away the half assed white/black magic out the window.

Like the half assed white/black magic wouldn't even work here. Why would you want your skills to be weak compared to a white/black mage? Noone would take you over their respective jobs since you suck at everything and excel at nothing. Red mage will have it's role among the other jobs and will have to compete with other jobs for that role. If it doesn't have a clear identity it'll become astro 4.0. Like our community is just finally accepting diurnal astro with midas, but in gordias days both sects were shunned and serious raiders didn't accept them into statics because they were a half assed white mage/scholar. Nocturnal is still shunned in the raiding community, and we're finally entering the final alexender tier. Do you really want a repeat of that with red mage? I sure don't.

That's why I think a DPS red mage would be the best way to incorporate it. Either buffing the party with enchantments like a bard. Or stabbing things with their rapier and blowing them up as a melee mage, which we don't have at the moment.

On another note, as a healer main it pains me to say this but I sincerely doubt we'll get another healer for 4.0. They're having such headaches with astro, I think they're just going to rehaul the whole class in 4.0 and fix it because although it can compete with white mage in raiding atm, nocturnal sect still cannot. To pull the things off that a scholar can easily do they need to put in a lot more effort compared to scholar. The class is a mess. I also think they have no clue what to do with healers considering they think the white mage/scholar combo is so good that they tried to make a healer which incorporated both jobs into one....and well we know how that turned out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Yes because RDM is a job that can use both black and white magic in previous FF games. In order to do that in FFXIV it needs to be able to do 2 different roles since we have the trinity of job roles.

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-facepalm-
I think you missed a whole debate and whining how scholar and summoner shared traits from square themselves and the community. Or you are trolling. Whichever the case, I can say with 99% confidence this will never come to light and the idea must be purged before the cycle repeats itself.