Why punish players who just want to play DoL DoH?

I agree there should be an alternate way. In 1.0 you were even able to start the game as a DoL/DoH (Using stone throw to fight enemies in the opening cutscenes) and you could really stick to just that if you wanted.

I see nothing wrong with having multiple options for players who want to adventure how they like. I like fighting but I can understand where the crafters and gatherers are coming from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Terribad

Why are you being rude? I don't even craft nor do I want too. You don't have to actually do x to be concerned about other players who enjoy doing x.

---

And yet you speak on behalf of them, fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calypsx

I agree there should be an alternate way. In 1.0 you were even able to start the game as a DoL/DoH (Using stone throw to fight enemies in the opening cutscenes) and you could really stick to just that if you wanted.

---

While a player needs to reach level 10 now, the ability to whack things with your hammer replaced stone throw. I believe this change pleased more than a few.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

Yeah but thousands of Warriors of Light moving in in droves is perfectly fine.. That's my point, lore accuracy in the game is already pretty silly, NPCs all talk to you like you're THE ONE, then there's ANOTHER ONE, and ANOTHER ONE.. To combat RMT, there could be a lv 50 class check for any class.

---

The checks mean much less to RMT than to a new player. Position hacking dps tear right through any content, that's what the afk parties of BLMs are doing that you see appear and disappear from time to time; entering content and casting away while the enemy can't touch them.

Alter the game files on their hard drive so cutscenes are just a flicker, and the dialogue is 1 box (since movies and dialogue are stored client side) and they blow right through the MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

Alter the game files on their hard drive so cutscenes are just a flicker, and the dialogue is 1 box (since movies and dialogue are stored client side) and they blow right through the MSQ.

---

I... need to figure out how to do that with the unskippable cutscene at the beginning!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dererk

from what I know no other mmo has these as classes just skill levels.

---

That's exactly it.. Other MMOs, crafting is just a level, not a standalone class.. FF14 gave us standalone classes for crafting.. Except, when it comes to accessing expansion content, they're not truly standalone classes apparently..

From the get go, SE gave us a way to play the game as a crafter, which is why some of us believed it would remain the case, and it has, for the past 2 years, once you unlocked everything you needed for crafting (depends, but let's just say.. second lieutenant unlocked, so a fresh lv 50) you could do everything in crafting without any restriction.. You didn't need to get to 2.2 and kill Leviathan before obtaining Levin recipes, you didn't need to kill Shiva to get Diamond/Ice recipes. If SE designed the game in such a way in the first place. (complete MSQ/Combat content to unlock more recipes) Then we wouldn't have been under such illusion. But up until 3.0, everything we had to do to advance crafting was, to craft. Was it wrong to expect the same trend to continue after 2 years?

This much complaining it may be time to link crafting and gathering to a war or magic class that way unless a war or magic class is level 30 they can't raise a crafting or gathering class to 31 just stop complaining about this since in other games lest from what I know no other mmo has these as classes just skill levels.

So lets just tie the levels to war and magic classes and be done with it.

DoH and DoL being separate classes is a carry over from 1.0. Nowhere in 2.0 is crafting touted as independent (see needing lvl 10 dow/m change) so that argument is inaccurate. Also, every MSQ so far has required DoW/M, and this game is a story driven MMO. There is a reason you are going to Ishgard, and a reason you can now get in, all which are parts of the MSQ. Also, people act like most of the filler quests in the MSQ take more than a few minutes to complete. DoW/M people have to do the MSQ to get their raids and primals unlocked, and to get to the HW content, and so do the crafters/gatherers. Just get it done. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it understandable why there is a gate? Yes. So just go get the keys to the gate already. Each MSQ patch took maybe 2-4 hours tops depending on the duties needed, and they are all easy. If you really want to be an end game crafter, you will do what it takes to get there, which includes MSQ and other battle activities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

I... need to figure out how to do that with the unskippable cutscene at the beginning!!

---

It was easy to do in early FFXI, you just needed to find long cutscene file and replace it with a nothing file, or something similar.

Cutscenes are more complicated in FFXIV, for instance the opener has a choice that determines which ring you start with. I haven't looked into how hard it would be to bypass the CS so I couldn't tell you where to look. It's also against the ToS (which isn't going to stop the RMT from doing it) and might make your game unplayable when the next patch comes out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

To be clear, the access DoL and DoH have 1-50 isn't changing, and any player can continue to use gil to fund crafting to level 60. If they want a cheaper route, they can gather the mats themselves, which means accessing the instances that have prerequisites to access. Just like any trial, dungeon, or raid has.

---

Is that assuming there will be no DoL resources added to heavensward content?

Because I fail to see how they can gather it if they can't get to it. And if they can't access it then how is it not changing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadray

Is that assuming there will be no DoL resources added to heavensward content?

---

I already said that in the text you quoted...

Quote:

---

which means accessing the instances that have prerequisites to access. Just like any trial, dungeon, or raid has.

---

And if they can't access it then how is it not changing?

DoH/DoL 1-50 is NOT changing.

*It will continue to be doable, albeit inefficiently, without Battlecraft Lvl 11+ completion. (craft, sell, repeat)
*It will continue to be doable, a little bit more efficiently without Battlecraft Lvl 46+ completion. (add leves to the mix)
*It will continue to be doable, even more efficiently, with a Battlecraft Lvl 50 (and no story) completion. (Ehcatl Dailies)

The above, designated 1-50 content, remains fully accessible for DoH/DoL, without needing MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadray

Because I fail to see how they can gather it if they can't get to it.

---

51-60 is a different animal. Battlecraft classes must (and should be forced to) complete the prerequisites to access the higher tier content. As should any explorer, and that means DoL too. (Side note- This doesn't affect DoH-exclusive people, as they purchase their materials.)

And we still don't have information about how the high level DoL process will go, but if it is consistent to the fisher class, as they have strongly inferred, one can level up in any zone, not just the Sea of Clouds.

TLDR: People who choose not to do content will consequentially fail to reap the benefits of increased efficiency leveling, or the reduced costs of self-sufficiency.

No instant gratification, thank you. Either earn your access like EVERYBODY else... or don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

---

My time would be better spent actually doing it, rather than crying about it on the forums.

Edit: or i'd just buy the fish

While I sympathize with your plight, I don't think you'll ever find a solution on this game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Destomius

My time would be better spent actually doing it, rather than crying about it on the forums.

Edit: or i'd just buy the fish

---

Buying your way out is not an option :p how I wish it was an option for me :D I'd make crowns for the royal families as a way to get into Ishgard or something..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

And we still don't have information about how the high level DoL process will go, but if it is consistent to the fisher class, as they have strongly inferred, one can level up in any zone, not just the Sea of Clouds.

TLDR: People who choose not to do content will consequentially fail to reap the benefits of increased efficiency leveling, or the reduced costs of self-sufficiency.

No instant gratification, thank you. Either earn your access like EVERYBODY else... or don't.

---

Tbh, if I can get the masterbook recipes without having access to Ishgard, I'm prepared to pay the premium for mats that I don't have access to and I'm sure a lot of the other crafters would be just as willing.. There are some people who like self sufficiency and pride themselves in being able to do everything, then there are the specialists who like to just pick one thing they're good at and go to town with it. Having to complete MSQ won't be a huge drain on me, I know it won't take much longer than 2 or 3 days.. But to somebody who's not interested in it, there's no tiered rewards that's why it feels like such a tedium.

For example, if 2.1 MSQ offered a couple crafting recipes at the end, then 2.2 offered some, etc.. Not only would all the crafters have already done the MSQ for the sake of obtaining said recipes, those who are looking at doing 2.0-2.55 all in one fell swoop would feel more at ease about tackling it because there's rewards along each step of the way.. Much like how gearing is for people interested in pve.. Imagine if between 2.0 and 2.55 there's no gear ilvl difference, that's what it feels like to some of us because we're already at the top of our game, we've already got BiS gear.. There's no progression path left for us except for this roadblock. It's basically an attunement quest to us if you remember those days where you had to do pointless delivery quests with no item reward just to unlock raids, and fill the lore requirement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

In an MMO, that's a very hard argument to win, lots of people have different ways of playing the game and for a good reason, I sure as hell wouldn't want to gather all my own mats for crafting.. and I'm sure you wouldn't want to craft all the low level gear that you can just buy from other people etc..

---

I don't need to win it. Parley was present in 1.0, and was removed for 2.0. Simply because they are multiple (4) types of players (achievers, socializers, killers, explorers) does not mean a game has to support them all.

Quote:

---

So basically, we're in an interconnected society where each person has a role to fill. A new chapter is about to open, and only the warriors are allowed to go there, everyone else on the fringe will have to take out their training swords and get fightin'.

---

I keep saying how this is not a MMO first, it's an FF game first. You made another post about there being multiple warriors of lights. There are not, from the story's perspective, you are the only WoL. Anytime you have been in a group, the game has phrased it as you are gathering forces. The interconnected society you are referring to exists, but has little bearing on the actual game itself, especially since you don't need crafting to clear the highest content.

Quote:

---

I've accepted that to be the case, I'm ready to do my MSQ, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's more than a minor annoyance for really, not a very good reason.. To keep RMT out of Ishgard? To make the lore accurate? Come on, I could really use a better reason than that to get through all dem quests.

---

Again, this is a Final Fantasy game. The main quest has ALWAYS been the driver.

Honestly, I just wish you didn't need a DoW/DoM to unlock leves for DoH/DoL. Seems like a silly limitation IMO.

Just coming from someone who was really into crafting when I was new on my old character (before fantasia potions were a thing :p).

I'm curious as to why this is suddenly an issue now, instead of back during the Beta phase - there was never any complaints about DotL and DotH classes not being able to do the storyline or anything back then and all through the last two years, as far as I was aware, there was still no real complaint from players about this.

Why now, after nearly two years of service, is this suddenly a major problem? If someone can enlighten me as to why they've chosen now to complain about it (at a time when there is virtually zero chance of it ever being changed), I'd be really appreciative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I'm curious as to why this is suddenly an issue now, instead of back during the Beta phase - there was never any complaints about DotL and DotH classes not being able to do the storyline or anything back then and all through the last two years, nothing from players.

Why now, after nearly two years of service, is this suddenly a major problem? If someone can enlighten me as to why they've chosen now to complain about it (at a time when there is virtually zero chance of it ever being changed), I'd be really appreciative.

---

Because for the most part, people can do just about everything DoH/DoL related in the game and barely touch the combat side.

With Heavensward, these people are disappointed that they cannot even access the DoH/DoL content at all in Heavensward without doing the many combat quests in the main story in their entirety.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I'm curious as to why this is suddenly an issue now, instead of back during the Beta phase - there was never any complaints about DotL and DotH classes not being able to do the storyline or anything back then and all through the last two years, as far as I was aware, there was still no real complaint from players about this.

Why now, after nearly two years of service, is this suddenly a major problem? If someone can enlighten me as to why they've chosen now to complain about it (at a time when there is virtually zero chance of it ever being changed), I'd be really appreciative.

---

All DoL leves and new gathering points will be gated behind MSQ (they were already gated behind DoW/DoM level)
Some/all DoH leves will be locked behind MSQ (some were already gated behind DoW/DoM level)

To get through the MSQ takes a substantial amount of time to gear up, or gil to blow through it in under 10 hours.

maybe if you crafted a fancy santa hat for Vishap, hell let you pass to Ishgard
:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GenJoe

That's exactly it.. Other MMOs, crafting is just a level, not a standalone class.. FF14 gave us standalone classes for crafting.. Except, when it comes to accessing expansion content, they're not truly standalone classes apparently..

---

No class stand really alone in the big picture of the character. Every leveled class is an aspect of the character. Every class complete other classes in the same discipline.
A crafter who also learned how to fight is not less a crafter than a crafter who never learned to fight. He is then just a crafter who can defend himself.

Also, you can do most mainstory quests as a crafter without fighting anything (speak with NPC A, bring item X to NPC Y, search hidden objects in a specific area). But if a fight start, just be sure that you have your weapon with you and that you know how to use the weapon. Meaning switch to your battle class, do the fight, and then switch back to the crafter class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calypsx

I agree there should be an alternate way. In 1.0 you were even able to start the game as a DoL/DoH (Using stone throw to fight enemies in the opening cutscenes) and you could really stick to just that if you wanted.

I see nothing wrong with having multiple options for players who want to adventure how they like. I like fighting but I can understand where the crafters and gatherers are coming from.

---

The 1.0 original mainstory suffered because of this. The fights in the 1.0 mainstory were even easier than the fights in ARR mainstory. Great CS, but lackluster fights. As an example the one quest where there were exactly 2 wolves as enemies after running a long way, nothing more.

https://youtu.be/BKZbj5kRgI8?t=61

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StouterTaru

All DoL leves and new gathering points will be gated behind MSQ (they were already gated behind DoW/DoM level)
Some/all DoH leves will be locked behind MSQ (some were already gated behind DoW/DoM level)

To get through the MSQ takes a substantial amount of time to gear up, or gil to blow through it in under 10 hours.

---

It's not about the leves and gathering..
Those are just optional things for optimized efficiency, I can understand being penalized for not having gotten to Ishgard, that I wouldn't be able to gather the new mats in the zones, and I wouldn't have access to leves to level quicker.. But I could still level up.

The only issue is with the recipes, actually at this point, it's not clear if I will indeed need access to Ishgard to get the master recipes once I reach level 60, it's just a strong speculation that may be the case. (Seems like something worth knowing.. Why SE won't reveal this info, eh...)

Master Recipes are the bread and butter for crafters, it's the holy grail and up until this point, MSQ completion simply had nothing to do with obtaining any of the recipes, that's why most people who only craft are usually behind on MSQ, because it simply wasn't needed up until this point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ErzaScarlet77

maybe if you crafted a fancy santa hat for Vishap, hell let you pass to Ishgard
:p

---

haha if only.. SE could just as easily work that into the lore and give us that as an optional method to gaining access :p like I said, only reason for this MSQ lockout is because of lore, nothing more.

Well I appreciate the kind words (and kindly ignore the mean spirited ones)

Whats funny is that I spend 90% of my time travelling Eorzea as a Botanist. I have spent the past couple years being the best Botanist I could be. Was looking forward to venturing out into new lands and discovering new and exotic resources.

But I will don my Gladiator and do some story for a few weeks if that's what it takes. Just disappointed that I have to do so many quests and activities that I really don't enjoy in mmos.

I play mmos because of the things they offer that no other genre does. Combat can be found anywhere.