So Second Coil has been destroyed

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Second coil isn't hard anymore. So, people are saying "casuals" will now have a chance to down it. They couldn't have a chance before? And even if they kill it now, will they feel good about themselves for downing something that got nerfed to the ground? Do you just want the gear, that is equivalent in item level to the gear you already have? What was stopping players from "experiencing" these fights before? Even if you couldn't win, you got to see the content, and none of it is required to down turn 9 and progress the actual story. Now you get to kill the content, sure, but you don't get to experience it how it was made and originally visioned to be. It's pointless.

Echo is one thing; you can go ahead and add echo, whatever. But the changes in encounter mechanics just ruined it.

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100% agree

Let's see guys once servers up, I'm still sure not all will skate to Scob but definitely it will be different from the original.

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Originally Posted by Xensai

no on here is upset (apart from being branded an elitest jerk) MOST of the people some of which still haven't cleared enjoyed the challenge that SCoB gave

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What thread have you been reading, there are more likes for posts praising nerfs, and more posts in general praising nerfs...

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Originally Posted by Coatl

Actually the patch notes say something about the mines auto-detonating not killing the raid anymore.

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Oh, I must have misread that part, but yeah, it'd be pretty bad if it went off during an Allagan Field. Chances are, this may get the same treatment as T6's Blighted, with them reducing the 12,000-ish to about 6,000-ish damage from the explosion. Two of them going off is also a big no-no. xD

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

We'll have to see when the servers come back up. Somehow I doubt these fights are going to be as free as people have been trying to claim - we just won't need 8 perfect players to even have a shot at a clear now.

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Yep. It's just too early for anyone to celebrate about steamrolling though the second coil.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

Seriously, what is the point of these nerfs? People that can't get past Twintania still won't, and that's fine, and people that can't get past T9 still won't. This didn't do anything for anyone. The players that couldn't down anything in second coil might be able to now, but they just get sidegrade gear from their ST freebie gear.
...

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People have a better chance to clear the second coil now that there is a curve. At least, I do see myself putting more effort in learning t9 now, instead of giving up because no one is forming learning parties for the second coil anyway.

People are afraid because ''casuals'' will stain their reputation. Please, by the time everyone get the experience the final coil, the expansion and the next tier is out.

The vision is the same, but just because there are less one shot mechanics barely changes anything.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Tbh T7 was not well-designed at all. If you had enough dps you could skip some of the voices, making it impossible to keep the Renauds petrified to avoid the next Shriek.

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This is more to the player-caused strategies having a risk. The intended method was to have only one Renaud up at any point in time, and to kill them once shriek goes off. The four-stack Renaud strategy was probably something that they didn't expect players would create and the timing of the skills during the fight weren't balanced for it. :x

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

Towers. The dreads and enrage timer are easily remedied by the Echo, and I concede to that, but if nobody can do the towers properly and they charge up to maximum at the same time, Atomic Ray will kill them all. This also includes the landmines if nobody pays attention to them because if even one of them is left up for too long, it will explode and kill the raid. :x

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Towers are a joke now because people can take an extra stack of Languishing. There is no challenge in that respect.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

This is more to the player-caused strategies having a risk. The intended method was to have only one Renaud up at any point in time, and to kill them once shriek goes off. The four-stack Renaud strategy was probably something that they didn't expect players would create and the timing of the skills during the fight weren't balanced for it. :x

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Even with the single renaud strategy this can still happen, that is refreezing one renaud the entire time and killing the rest rather than 4-Stack.

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Originally Posted by Mitracia

People have a better chance to clear the second coil now that there is a curve. At least, I do see myself putting more effort in learning t9 now, instead of giving up because no one is forming learning parties for the second coil anyway.

People are afraid because ''casuals'' will stain their reputation. Please, by the time everyone get the experience the final coil, the expansion and the next tier is out.

The vision is the same, but just because there are less one shot mechanics barely changes anything.

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True enough. It's just that, as a player, I would feel ashamed to clear SCoB NOW.

All those nerfs mean is SE basically saying: "Ok guys, it seems you are bad and you cannot clear Coil with its intended level of difficulty. Here, let me unlock Easy Mode for you."

I don't know, I would NOT be happy myself if I still had to clear it. But I guess people are different.

no nerf in T9 yet so why care ?

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People have a better chance to clear the second coil now that there is a curve. At least, I do see myself putting more effort in learning t9 now, instead of giving up because no one is forming learning parties for the second coil anyway.

People are afraid because ''casuals'' will stain their reputation. Please, by the time everyone get the experience the final coil, the expansion and the next tier is out.

The vision is the same, but just because there are less one shot mechanics barely changes anything.

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This is no "better chance", this is a free win handed to you. They completely nerfed all the mechanics; you can ignore the majority of them with no consequence.

Why do you want to do the content in the first place? You want the gear? If you can't down second coil, then sidegrade gear isn't going to help you win something you couldn't win before. You want the challenge? Well, that's completely gone now. What is there to gain now? Where is the fun?

The vision is not the same. The content is an absolute joke now. You get to experience the fight sure, but you got to experience it before too; nothing was stopping you. Now, it's just a joke and you don't get to have a challenge. This is a good thing how?

Okay guys pulling raff.
"Blighted"
WHOOPS Oh well healer will heal me
FF to 42%
Don't push phases honey is still out!
Phase is pushed, it's okay guys, no more hornets come out.
NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING, you didn't have to kill yourself in acid rain.
It's okay guys, we don't have to do ss meet a dps check anymore.
*How I cleared t6 for the first time*

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

This is more to the player-caused strategies having a risk. The intended method was to have only one Renaud up at any point in time, and to kill them once shriek goes off. The four-stack Renaud strategy was probably something that they didn't expect players would create and the timing of the skills during the fight weren't balanced for it. :x

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That's not the issue. The problem is not the stacking, it's the fact that between one Voice and the next, more than 30 seconds passes. This means that even if you DON'T stack and only use 1 Renaud at a time, that Renaud is going to get free before the next Voice and kill everyone. Unless you kill him first, but then you have no shelter from Shriek.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

True enough. It's just that, as a player, I would feel ashamed to clear SCoB NOW.

All those nerfs mean is SE basically saying: "Ok guys, it seems you are bad and you cannot clear Coil with its intended level of difficulty. Here, let me unlock Easy Mode for you."

I don't know, I would NOT be happy myself if I still had to clear it. But I guess people are different.

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... you're still missing that t9 remains unchanged. It's still a wall, a wall that needs time and effort, at least until further notice. Moreover, turn 5 is still a wall for other people, because it will has 1 shot mechanics despite the echo, and if someone dies it's pretty much GG.

people forget 120 gears are out now. Scob is a little bit easier now even without the changes... so it is not the same as before anyway.

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Originally Posted by RinKaen

*How I cleared t6 for the first time*

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Not really any different from T1/2 that has been going on for months.
"What are slimes?"
"What is rot?"

Gee this all sounds familiar...

5. Adding The Binding Coil of Bahamut to Duty Finder and giving it Echo: Hardcore endgame raiders were up in arms over this. "How dare the plebians be able to access our content? They do not deserve even T3! Now anyone can roll through it like a level 90 WoW players runs through Molten Core! Twintania will be as difficult as the first mob you kill in the game!" Many players quit the game at this point, causing SE to take the servers offline because the game was no longer profitable.

9. Adding Second Coil of Bahamut to Duty Finder and giving it Echo: Hardcore endgame raiders were up in arms over this. "How dare the plebians be able to access our content? They do not deserve even T7! Now anyone can roll through it like level 90 WoW players runs through Molten Core! Nael Deus Darnus will be as difficult as the first mob you kill in the game!" Many players have announced that they quit the game at this point, causing SE to take the servers offline because the game will be no longer profitable.

I really should update the death list references for WoD. And yes, I know the two end bosses didn't get nerfed.

I should probably fix the future tense on the second to be present text.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

This is no "better chance", this is a free win handed to you. They completely nerfed all the mechanics; you can ignore the majority of them with no consequence.

Why do you want to do the content in the first place? You want the gear? If you can't down second coil, then sidegrade gear isn't going to help you win something you couldn't win before. You want the challenge? Well, that's completely gone now. What is there to gain now? Where is the fun?

The vision is not the same. The content is an absolute joke now. You get to experience the fight sure, but you got to experience it before too; nothing was stopping you. Now, it's just a joke and you don't get to have a challenge. This is a good thing how?

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you are the Zen master of what the majority of people in this thread are trying to get through to people

These fights are like 8 months old. The # of players yet to clear vastly outnumber those that did. SE wants to keep it moving for everyone, not the small minority that will reclear it in i130 gear for nostalgia.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

Towers are a joke now because people can take an extra stack of Languishing. There is no challenge in that respect.

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They can get a 2nd stack, so what? They will still be taking increased damage for pushing the tower a second time. Pushing the tower a second time before the nerfs would cause you to be near-death or be instantly killed if you were not a tank. As people geared up, people could still survive a second stack. The damage reduction may not be as significant as people claim it to be. They still will be taking amplified damage, and they will get another stack on Languishing. We just have to wait for the servers to come out before we can actually say anything. :x

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Not really any different from T1/2 that has been going on for months.
"What are slimes?"
"What is rot?"

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rot - basketball as we call it before :D

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Originally Posted by Xensai

This Here is the reason why people who want to learn and want to do the so called "hard" content can't

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You had half an year to clear this content fair on "hard" difficulty.
Now it's time for people less strict setup as before SCoB was clearable pretty much by statics or groups of very capable only. Now it's time to put it on usual PF level where people in average PUG can pass it. A lot of people will benefit from it - whether it a casual crowd who are just not capable to properly deal with OHKO mechanics or raiders whose statics say "No" to a proposition to go farm gear for fifth offspec or glamour purposes.

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Originally Posted by Leadleaf

BCoB's mechanic nerfs were to address the random matchups in DF such as a party without silence for 1/2 and a bad distribution of phys/magic dps for 4. These nerfs are something else entirely.

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These nerfs are basically removing OHKO mechanics as they are unpassable for many people. BCOB doesn't had it on t1-t4 and only mechanics that might lead to it (that nasty paralyze) was fixed.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

The vision is not the same. The content is an absolute joke now. You get to experience the fight sure, but you got to experience it before too; nothing was stopping you.

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Actually, there were multiple things stopping people, such as the fact that it required a pre-made party. If you didn't have a static, you were screwed, since most PF groups for SCOB were either farm parties or progression parties that required you to have made it to certain phases in the fight.

New players with no experience were left out in the cold to try to start up their own parties, most of which didn't get much attention because people with clears tended not to be interested in helping strangers get clears.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Not really any different from T1/2 that has been going on for months.
"What are slimes?"
"What is rot?"

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Eh this is true, I'd like to think you can still die to the 10 second snake "enrage". But they completely took out t6's enrage.

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

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The towers do damage proportional to your HP. There was no "You'd be dead if you weren't a tank". You would survive as ANY role because the second stack was something like 90% of your max HP. If it's lower now this means people can double push much more safely, meaning the number of people who actually have to touch a tower or understand them has been reduced, meaning more people can stay on the boss the whole time.

It is by far the least needed change in T8. it is not an ease of play nerf, which you could make arguments for the other changes in T8. It is straight up a removal of competence needed.

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Originally Posted by Crevox

This is no "better chance", this is a free win handed to you. They completely nerfed all the mechanics; you can ignore the majority of them with no consequence.

..?

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Because I want to experience the rest of the storyline, duh. T9 is still a challenge, and I know that will be enough to be proud of myself.

Hell, I don't need the personal attacks that I'm a ''casual'' or that I'm not a ''veteran'' of the second coil, because I'm pretty sure that no one will give a damn.

If you have fun with challenge, that's fine, but don't rub it on other people's face. You still have your challenging content, and you're still ahead of the others. What's your problem?

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Originally Posted by RinKaen

Eh this is true, I'd like to think you can still die to the 10 second snake "enrage". But they completely took out t6's enrage.

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Depends on how much damage it does and when it occurs. If it's still doing 5k damage to everyone and then that happens to have lined up in timing with a laser from the boss I'm pretty sure you'd still be screwed by it unless your healers are absolutely on point.

Please actually wait for the servers to come up before making assumptions.

Look at me! I'm a filthy casual plebian in your SCoB! Look at all this gear I got that was outdated in 2.3!

What assumptions? It's in the patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Mitracia

... you're still missing that t9 remains unchanged. It's still a wall, a wall that needs time and effort, at least until further notice. Moreover, turn 5 is still a wall for other people, because it will has 1 shot mechanics despite the echo, and if someone dies it's pretty much GG.

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I am not missing that, as I stated in another reply.

However, I don't see how the existence of T9 changes the fact that the other Turns got switched to Easy Mode. I repeat, this is SE saying "Ok, we want to give a chance to bad players as well".

I don't know, whoever has a bit of pride would have a hard time being happy.
"Why would other players be able to clear content while I could not?" is what I would ask myself.

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Originally Posted by RinKaen

Eh this is true, I'd like to think you can still die to the 10 second snake "enrage". But they completely took out t6's enrage.

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I'll agree with that, there's nothing dangerous in the last phase with the vul stacks gone. Super slug is a dead tactic now since every group can "burn" it and take all the time in the world (provided healers have MP).

Though, I have successfully done "super snake" T1 in DF multiple times so it's hard for me to call even that a proper enrage.

So happy they did this adjustment!! Kudos to developers for always catering to the casual first!! After all, they pay the bills for the rest of us. When in doubts, always make your majority of your consumers happy, forget the minority, all they do is nothing but complaining about everything, every single time.

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Originally Posted by subteraneanbird

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Oh cool, I didn't know that. The more you know. xD
However, even though the towers may be considered nerfed, everyone still has to deal with Atomic Ray, Ballistic Missile, Allagan Field, Brainjack, and Homing Missile. It doesn't seem like they touched the damage dealt nor the mechanics by the Defensive Maneuvers, Dreadnaught, and the explosion damage by the Landmines. The boss also doesn't seem to have taken a hit to his cleave and auto-attacks, and his bleed on the MT.

I don't see the issue. No exp'd player would go back to SCoB with a pug group anyway unless they drop crafting gear or their after that last i110 piece they need for FCoB accuracy or something. Even without the nerfs there's no satisfaction in beating 9 month old content. Might as well nerf it.

I don't give two shits when some random Joe Scrub completed his second coils if it's not the world first kill. Would you think highly of him if he beat T7 without nerfs months after release? I'd bet most pro people here would just think he finally found a group that can carry him. Plus there is still savage for the people who want a challenge, so the point is moot anyway. I just want my alt gear/eventual crafting mat farm in SCoB to be as fast and painless as possible.

Twenty one pages of whining about the nerf, while the thread about patch notes is only 6 pages large.

Some people simply must have a sickness.

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Originally Posted by RinKaen

What assumptions? It's in the patch notes.

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"The damage from Acid Spray's been reduced."

Which could mean it now does anywhere from 10k to 1k. That's a long scale where it can be anywhere from "still fucks you up" to "dangerous enough to still care about" to "yeah it's functionally a non-thing now"

Please actually wait for the servers to come up before attempting to assess the actual severity of these nerfs. All we know is they have been reduced, not if they've actually become something you can completely ignore or not.

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Originally Posted by Dashuto

Twenty one pages of whining about the nerf, while the thread about patch notes is only 6 pages large.

Some people simply must have a sickness.

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This thread is nothing more than trolls trolling trolls.

ITT, people clearing FCoB and crying about nerfs in an instance they only use to farm missing gear anyway.

Wake up people, these nerfs mean you'll be able to PUG it with nearly anyone and basically farm the hell out of it until you got all your gear for alts. No need for competent people, just non-braindead people.

and yeah, T9 not changed so the plebian noobs won't get to T10 and farther anyway

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I am not missing that, as I stated in another reply.
....

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That would be a great way to annihilate a playerbase I guess. Hell, people would still be stuck in the first coil, not because it wasn't nerfed, but rather because no one does it anymore.

''To bad players as well'' insinuating that they are bad. I could reach the final coil if I wanted. If I wanted to spend 15 hours a week learning the fights up to t9, with a static that raids during the night three times a week. Yuk, got the wrong priorities over there.

But really now, people are challenging SE's philisophy that they have put forth since the beginning? All they are doing is giving a steady push to both players that are ahead and those that are behind. The positions are the same, and those who are complaining right now are compaining over nothing.

^^^^^^^^^
I played 6-8 in df for fun. It's nice seeing other people's approach at clearing. Well I say 6-8 but I only went to 7 in a farm party.