Urgently Change your Approach SE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

So you mean Beats headphones/Mcdonalds are good things because they sold a lot ?

guess you never heard or own some Stax or the Orpheus HE90

---

This doesn't help your argument at all. The fact is the market speaks. People pay for what they want. You're OPINION if it's worth while or not doesn't matter one bit if enough people do like it. You are not the only person in the world and your opinion is not the most important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

I always find it funny how many doom and gloom posts there can be. Going on and on about how the game's dying, players unsubbing in droves, and how 1.23 n 11 had it right... and yet, FF14 is currently sitting at 10 times the subs it had prior to 2.0.

---

I also find it funny that most of the doom and gloom or complaints come from the same people. There are a couple of dozen repeat complainers I've seen in the last year and maybe another 100 names that popup from time to time, but the fact is there is an incredibly vast amount of the player base that doesn't dislike it enough to even come here to say anything. It's a very vocal minority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

So you mean Beats headphones/Mcdonalds are good things because they sold a lot ?

guess you never heard or own some Stax or the Orpheus HE90

---

That's exactly why.

Hopefully, ARR keeps doing what it's doing, but just expands on it when the expansion comes out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Divinemight

.

---

Yoshi removed the Fatigue system,that was a welcome change,
at the end of 1.23, the game had an almost perfect balance.
the game was not too time consuming,it was not easy, it was fun

and the most important thing(credits to Tanaka),
the atmosphere,the community,player interaction content, are much much better than XIV 2.0

the camera, control, ui are suck in XI, but why it's so unforgettable
because there are something more important than these

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

So you mean Beats headphones/Mcdonalds are good things because they sold a lot ?

guess you never heard or own some Stax or the Orpheus HE90

---

It's all been downhill for McDonald's since they decided to discontinue Hot Mustard sauce.

I don't bother with ATMA or Personal Housing, I bother with the fact they are not willing to give us better servers.

Wei, you said you were leaving. What you want isn't here at the moment come back and see at 3.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SythSynner

I feel there is nothing wrong with the whole Atma grinding. It goes by really quickly tbh. Just most ppl make it feel like it takes to long.

As for The Hunt and PS3/4 players... Not much I can say about that besides this is an MMO and for as long as I played MMOs (yes, I know FFXI is on PS as well) I feel MMOs should stick to PCs and PCs only. I see it as their fault and we (PC) should not be punished for it. The game already has limits due to it being on the PS3/4. NOTE: To clear up, I have nothing against PS players, I just feel because the game is also for the PS that the game also has to be limited. Not a full 100% open world is one of the reasons.

Rushing out content? I think they are at a good speed with that. Not to fast and not to slow. If you want slower new content.. then play WoW.. do the same thing (no new stuff) for 2-4 months.

---

This clear up message doesn't sound like how your intended to make it sound. Seems more like you want us all off your precious MMO. Grouping all PS players is ridiculous IMHO.. PS3 is where the limits lie 4 is fine at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

Yoshi removed the Fatigue system,that was a welcome change,
at the end of 1.23, the game had an almost perfect balance.
the game was not too time consuming,it was not easy, it was fun

and the most important thing(credits to Tanaka),
the atmosphere,the community,player interaction content, are much much better than XIV 2.0

---

Dont fool yourself. You had the atmosphere and the community because of solid fans from FF11. FF11 community was much discplined than FF14 community only because they have been co-exist with Japanse community in harmony for many years. It has nothing to do with those elements you have mentioned. Tanaka is the one guilty of destory this FF11 community due to the disapointment.

Class system looks innovative at first place, but it is poorly executed. Main job / sub job system is the trademark of FF11, but who destroyed it? It is Tanaka. Who got the retard idea of bound class to the type of weapon? It is Tanaka. Who created the boring guildlevels system as only method of levling? It is Tanaka.

If you are looking for old retro type of mmo in current time period, you might as well quite gaming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

stuff that's ultimately unimportant

---

His game was an embarrassment for square. It got terrible reviews, and almost no one liked it. It was a massive failure. You stand in the infinitesimally small portion of the player base that actually liked what he did. You know what though? Money talks. That's why he was taken off the project.

You may have liked it, but almost no one did. You will convince no one here that it was a great game and that Tanaka was better. The funny thing is you keep mentioning later versions that were directly effected by Yoshi-P and how good they were. It's like Yoshi wasn't there for you.

The kind of game you want doesn't exist in modern MMOs anymore. Accept it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theresa

I don't bother with ATMA or Personal Housing, I bother with the fact they are not willing to give us better servers.

---

Is it really the servers or the crappy state of the north american internet that's the real problem? I lean to the internet being the source of most peoples problems, but many people don't understand how the internet works and they don't know how to diagnose their problems properly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

snip

---

wrong. this is just your opinion and is in no way the truth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Is it really the servers or the crappy state of the north american internet that's the real problem? I lean to the internet being the source of most peoples problems, but many people don't understand how the internet works and they don't know how to diagnose their problems properly.

---

Shouldn't you consider this when marketing over seas?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Shouldn't you consider this when marketing over seas?

---

Perhaps, but that still doesn't make it a server problem. They could add a cluster that's more convenient for south american and Australia, but that doesn't mean the servers themselves are bad. Despite the fact many people seem to think that's the problem. The servers have been stable outside of patch nights for quite a while now.

Also, the poor interconnects between the backbone providers isn't something SE can do anything about, and it's a condition that changes year to year. You can't exactly up and move the whole data center because the internet starts working poorly. As far as we know they evaluated the internet and data center and everything looked good at that time. It's easy to go back with hindsight and act like they should have known, but it probably wasn't a problem when they picked that data center.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Is it really the servers or the crappy state of the north american internet that's the real problem? I lean to the internet being the source of most peoples problems, but many people don't understand how the internet works and they don't know how to diagnose their problems properly.

---

I live in the NA and use a JP Data Center and have zero issues when it comes to servers. Ping and pocket traffic are all at good levels. Before I was on a server that was in the NA Data Center, did not go so well. I hated it. I think it has to be who, where, and what is hosting the Data Centers. Personally I believe the NA Data Center hosts are crap compare to the JP Data Center Hosts.

Now I could be wrong with how the whole Data Center bit works, but from what I seen personally.... everything got better (server wise) after xfering to a JP Data Center.

Plz, feel free to current me if I am wrong.

Side Note: Ever notice how the NA Data Centers go down for X reasons while the JP Data Centers remain up? That alone should explain everything.

Level3, Verizon, and Cogent have been well documented to be points of failure on the internet lately. (Use http://www.internetpulse.net/ during prime time to see how bad it gets lately) It's probably that by connecting to Japan's data centers you are entirely bypassing those nodes. So it makes sense that you potentially would see the problem going away by changing data centers based entirely on where you live in the country.

Also, you must consider that some ISP and backbone providers throttle certain kinds of data and FFXIV seems to fall prey to that.

It's these two things that make programs like WTFast so effective. You can route around the bad nodes, and it masks your data so it doesn't appear to be a video game therefore bypassing the packet sniffer's attempts to throttle.


TLDR: It's a more complex issue than "I have lag so the servers suck." Google around a bit and you'll see other games are having this problem too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SythSynner

Side Note: Ever notice how the NA Data Centers go down for X reasons while the JP Data Centers remain up? That alone should explain everything.

---

No it doesn't. It's a physically distinct location. One can go down without effecting the other for various different reasons. It doesn't begin to explain anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Is it really the servers or the crappy state of the north american internet that's the real problem? I lean to the internet being the source of most peoples problems, but many people don't understand how the internet works and they don't know how to diagnose their problems properly.

---

Most of the things they say they cannot do or add to the game is because the servers don't allow it. I'm not talking about lag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

The kind of game you want doesn't exist in modern MMOs anymore. Accept it.

---

There are still hardcore obtuse mmos! :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Is it really the servers or the crappy state of the north american internet that's the real problem? I lean to the internet being the source of most peoples problems, but many people don't understand how the internet works and they don't know how to diagnose their problems properly.

---

Size and position matters in larger areas, and time of implementation - not saying our ISPs are not blood thirsty bums but if SE wanted to give me 20ms connections they could have not chosen a distance about equal to what I already had lol. My connection to Japan was about the same as to Canada's top right, I'm on the west coast (~100 to ~100 lol). East coast friends went from ~130 to ~20 though.... lucky.. kupo nuts.

Edit: to make it more obvious I'm not mad at SE, 100ms is good - I dodge Weight of the Land no problem without having to "pre-dodge" it (although at the start of ARR servers were over loaded so.. that was kind of hard lol, but every MMO I've played has had that). Mostly I wanted to point out that when a system was implemented, how big the system is, and location of server in relation to all that speed issues - because of the location choice their NA server made no difference in ping, which I laughed at but am not flipping any tables for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shougun

not saying our ISPs are not blood thirsty bums but if SE wanted to give me 20ms connections they could have not chosen a distance about equal to what I already had lol.

---

Didn't realize you were the center of the universe. My bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

No it doesn't. It's a physically distinct location. One can go down without effecting the other for various different reasons. It doesn't begin to explain anything.

---

Right, this is what I mean. Now I stop playing a bit after 2.1 came out, I just got back into the game about a month ago. So plz, once again, correct me if I am wrong. But between Headstart and 2.1 NA Data Centers went down often. (If I am not mistaken, more then the JP Data Centers). While I been back I have again seen where the NA was down while JP was up.

What I was trying to say is... wouldn't the cause of the bad servers be due to crap hardware (or whatever you want to call it) in said Data Center?

Would you want to ride in a High Speed Car or an old 1990s Dodge Neon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

Didn't realize you were the center of the universe. My bad.

---

Did not say I was, neither did I say SE was terrible for doing it. I even laughed and made a joke of being jealous of my eastern friends, no need to be rude ;(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

snip

---

Hey WeiShan have a news for you , all ARR stuff are Tanaka work , he have said all of them (or maybe) when he have done XIV. So now let's stop the joke . Say me the idea come from some designer & programmer that was with him : yep .But Stuff that have hit on the game like 1 year after Tanaka go back to XI that is purely a joke right. Also if I remember right Tanaka have explain fail of XIV 1.0 by the fact that he wasn't managing the staff at all , and it letting them free to do what they want, so basically all that was in 1.0 wasn't the work of Tanaka if what he have said is true.

After the battle system that all 1.2X player love so much that have come after, have been released the 12-12-2011 with patch 1.20 so 1 year after Tanaka have leave , but yep Tanaka have done it.For those interested patch of 1.0 , Tanaka have resigned on december 2010.

Tanaka was set up to fail. I don't think he's a terrible producer and the contraints he was working with (It must NOT be ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE XI) really tied his hands. I'd rather YoshiP be in charge, but he does STILL need to listen to not only us, but others within the organization who have headed successful projects. Tanaka is one of those folks. He led some really awesome stuff from XI. He didn't sweat the small things so to speak (meaning he didn't use something as trivial as mog houses in his war on RMT. He didn't make it into an "achievement"; the pinnacle of your gaming career). Many of the things he did made sense. Goblin patrols being set in common RMT fishing holes, for example. He's got a proven track record no matter what you want to cite regarding XIV... and I agree it was a failure.

Don't condemn the man without looking at the whole picture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SythSynner

Right, this is what I mean. Now I stop playing a bit after 2.1 came out, I just got back into the game about a month ago. So plz, once again, correct me if I am wrong. But between Headstart and 2.1 NA Data Centers went down often. (If I am not mistaken, more then the JP Data Centers). While I been back I have again seen where the NA was down while JP was up.

---

Yes, the game had issues back at launch that were definitely server related. Odin crashing whole servers as a good example. This problem has gone away completely since then and hasn't been a problem in a while. The only time we see problems are when literally hundreds of players are in the same place and only Hunts have done that recently.

You also need to remember that one big mistake they made was underestimating the North American interest in the game. They didn't have enough servers ready to handle the sheer amount of people who bought the game. That's why they launched so many new servers within that first month, and had to stop online sales of the game for a few weeks. This was a large reason why the servers went down so often.

Really though how many MMO's nail this on day 1? Most have issues with connections and server stability in the first weeks.

I seriously doubt 1.0 failed for being pushed out quickly. It just wasn't fully fleshed out or even thought out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Souljacker

snip

---

I don't condemn Tanaka , he have done a great work on XI , XIV 1.0 could have been a great game if no big server problem and some other problem. I still play XI , I'm not like some who have stop play when Abyssea expansion have hit and say that is crap now. I have stay , have accept change , because without change a MMO can't survive . That is true for XI , like that is true for XIV. Like I said in my first post XI like XIV in my opinion are good MMO but they have some crap point , but all MMO have crap point. The best of the world MMO will have.

After to come back to Tanaka , he have work on great game(xenogear omg i love you) , have done great game(XI) , have done a bad release of one game(XIV).He work on a new game that seem great.
What I want to point isn't : Tanaka have done crap work , is to answer to WeiShan saying yoshi-p have done nothing , he have only come take the idea that was here from Tanaka and that is all.


For house do I agree that is a bad move : yes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tiggy

-snippy snip

---

That is true. I also forgot about most of what you said. You make a point. Thank you for explaining without being rude. +1 :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Koanyan

and it letting them free to do what they want, so basically all that was in 1.0 wasn't the work of Tanaka if what he have said is true.

---

The developers had worked with Tanaka for years.Tanaka thought they knew how to do it.
& the job system, Faction leves,8 man dungeons,NMs in 1.0,all were better than the current design (thanks to Yoshida's theme park philosophy in ARR)
the fault of Tanaka was he released an unfinished product.

ARR is a complete product, but the game direction is meh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

once again no. this is solely your opinion and not a fact.

---

the fact is I joined 3 FCs, they used to be very active, now all of them are dead silent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

once again no. this is solely your opinion and not a fact.

proves what? you know 3 fcs that quit the game? pls just stop acting like you know better. if you don't like the game fine if you like 11 and how 1.0 was fine but it doesn't make the ff14 any less popular or successful.

---

from an investor's perspective,ARR is a success,
from a player's perspective, it's not

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

And until both investors and players deem ARR a failure, it'll continue on its path.

---

I am sure it will, just like those wow clones,die in one or two years
to me & my FC mates, the game is already dead,we don't want to play it anymore (my FCs aren't small, two of them had 100+memebers)

XI/XIV1.23 are still alive in some people's heart

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

The developers had worked with Tanaka for years.Tanaka though they knew how to do it.
& the job system, Faction leves,8 man dungeons,NMs in 1.0,all were better than the current design (thanks to Yoshida's theme park philosophy in ARR)
the fault of Tanaka was he released an unfinished product.

---

once again no. this is solely your opinion and not a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

the fact is I joined 3 FCs, they used to be very active, now all of them are dead silent

---

proves what? you know 3 fcs that quit the game? pls just stop acting like you know better. if you don't like the game fine if you like 11 and how 1.0 was fine but it doesn't make the ff14 any less popular or successful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

from an investor's perspective,ARR is a success,
from a player's perspective, it's not

---

once again no. it is successful if it wasn't people wouldn't play it.

your opinion isn't a fact how many times does someone have to say it before you will see this.

players like ARR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

from an investor's perspective,ARR is a success,
from a player's perspective, it's not

---

And until both investors and players deem ARR a failure, it'll continue on its path.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

The developers had worked with Tanaka for years.Tanaka thought they knew how to do it.
& the job system, Faction leves,8 man dungeons,NMs in 1.0,all were better than the current design (thanks to Yoshida's theme park philosophy in ARR)
the fault of Tanaka was he released an unfinished product.

ARR is a complete product, but the game direction is meh

the fact is I joined 3 FCs, they used to be very active, now all of them are dead silent

from an investor's perspective,ARR is a success,
from a player's perspective, it's not

---

You do not represent me. I didnt give you any authorization to voice for me. I am perfectly happy with this game, especially after I have tried the Destiny. Do not self-proclaim yourself to speak for entire FF14 community.

I'm a bit disappointed with how every patch they come up with a way to bribe players into playing old content. It's like they know how boring the old content is, so instead of making new content, they implement something that "forces" us to play the old content (Animus, Nexus, exclusive mats that have a 0.0001% droprate).

I'm willing to put up with it, assuming it will stop with 3.0.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

the fact is I joined 3 FCs, they used to be very active, now all of them are dead silent

---

FCs fall apart all the time. That happens in every game

Quote:

---

the game is already dead,we don't want to play it anymore (my FCs aren't small, two of them had 100+memebers)

---

You express how much you can't stand the game and yet, here you are. What difference does the size of the FC make? Almost none of the large "founding" FCs on Siren still exist. That's not because of players leaving the game, that's because of players leaving the FC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bucy

I'm a bit disappointed with how every patch they come up with a way to bribe players into playing old content. It's like they know how boring the old content is, so instead of making new content, they implement something that "forces" us to play the old content (Animus, Nexus, exclusive mats that have a 0.0001% droprate).

I'm willing to put up with it, assuming it will stop with 3.0.

---

It won't, so prepare yourself now.

The developers have to find a way to keep players in queues so lower level players can get through the story mode duties, so they bribe us. I've got no problem with the bribery.

As your quoted bit implies, you aren't being forced to do it. If you want the reward for it, you have to tolerate the unpleasant bits.

edit: I won't argue that it's unpleasant. I'm only going to novus one relic and I'm wavering on whether or not to finish all class relics or not. Likely not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bucy

I'm willing to put up with it, assuming it will stop with 3.0.

---

Why would it stop with 3.0 though? If anything it will need to expand because of a perceived need for helping new players who can't just jump to 3.0 content.

I mean let's look at the relic questline for instance

Atmas - Encourage players to do FATEs, give new players help or give the players the impression that the open world in this game isn't just deserted even though it largely is
Animus - Requires tons of dungeons/content that there is no logical reason to touch at level 50
Novus - N/A, guess this was their way of helping out the Spiritbinding RMT bots
Nexus - Most of the bonus light windows are low level primals or stuff like Turn 4, content that is obsolete for most level 50 players

Of course what SE failed to realize, typical of their shortsightedness regarding most content that has been released is that rather than queue up for Duty Finder for things like Nexus players just make a party finder of 8 people who actually have Novus and just blaze through it.

At this point patches are pretty much

1) One to two new fights that are actually worth doing (Or not in the case of Ramuh EX on launch)
2) Three new dungeons that nobody particularly seems to care about aside from vanity or expert roulette
3) Non-descript Mechanic of the patch that will force you into old content
4) Content that was promised turns out to not be what players were expecting or is locked behind either a massive gil wall or some overly convoluted system without any real need for it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bucy

I'm a bit disappointed with how every patch they come up with a way to bribe players into playing old content. It's like they know how boring the old content is, so instead of making new content, they implement something that "forces" us to play the old content (Animus, Nexus, exclusive mats that have a 0.0001% droprate).

I'm willing to put up with it, assuming it will stop with 3.0.

---

Since 3.0 will likely be an expansion pack that we'll be paying extra money for, it'd be awful silly if 3.0 didn't feature all new content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

And until both investors and players deem ARR a failure, it'll continue on its path.

---

Launch of the game was good but patches afterwords were bad.
ARR was rushed out way too soon. Still have ton of bugs and lazy designs that were never fixed. 3.0 Will be the same.
I have a feeling we will see less of it in 3.0 mainly because it isn't that hard of a task as it was launching the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeiShan

I am sure it will, just like those wow clones,die in one or two years
to me & my FC mates, the game is already dead,we don't want to play it anymore (my FCs aren't small, two of them had 100+memebers)

XI/XIV1.23 are still alive in some people's heart

---

Not like FFXIV: ARR is the MMO with the highest growth rate over the last year. Yep, totally dying in a year or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dwill

Not like FFXIV: ARR is the MMO with the highest growth rate over the last year. Yep, totally dying in a year or two.

---

I'll not say that the game is dying. But i want comment that sentence. The problem is not how fast a game grows, but how it grows. You can have 50 000 boring hallway dungeons, it'll still be boring dungeons. If devs don't come with new concepts (at least new for FFXIV) there the game will die.
I'll close by quoting Coco Chanel: "fashion becomes out of date, style never"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kardayel

I'll not say that the game is dying. But i want comment that sentence. The problem is not how fast a game grows, but how it grows. You can have 50 000 boring hallway dungeons, it'll still be boring dungeons. If devs don't come with new concepts (at least new for FFXIV) there the game will die.
I'll close by quoting Coco Chanel: "fashion becomes out of date, style never"

---

Your entire post is based on a subjective matter. If I had a dollar everytime I saw people commenting on how and when MMOs would die, I would have retired a long time ago.

I for one support this. Even though they are lashing out content every few months, it's no where near the level of quality promised.

In my opinion, I think they are producing solid content at a fantastic pace. I love how each patch comes with a boat-lode of new story quests, which actually push the lore forward. That is just my opinion, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

Maybe you shouldn't do only 1 fate a day.

Let this sink in; there is a guy on Reddit who has 9 Animus weapons and it took him 3 months to get all 9.

---

I believe, good sir, you have thereby been succinctly torched.

I did -maybe- 300 total FATEs. Got my weapon.
Even just occasionally popping in to FATEs on my down time with BLM, more than 1/2 to my second one.

Not to say the game is flawless.
But the people who enjoy the game are in the game. Enjoying it.
Not rrraging on the forums because they want a different game.