Titan is hard because your camera isn't zoomed out, not because of server-side delays

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Envoyé par Allyra

Everyone has seen it. There are videos.

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And that's what they're trying to say. Seeing it in a video from SOMEONE ELSE is not the same as having the issue yourself. All that says is that SOME people have an issue, and that can easily be an issue with something out of SE's control.

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Envoyé par Allyra

LA with Time Warner. We get routed through Tata. We have friends who live in OC who have AT&T that gets routed through Tata (also getting issues). We also have friends in Oceanside who have the same issue with Tata (I forget what service they have).





Everyone has seen it. There are videos.

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Several years on the exact same connection and never had a problem with any other games. WoW I never get hit with anything. BF3 I dodge tank shells... FFXIV I randomly cannot dodge anything while other days nothing ever hits me. Sometimes it gets real fun and I go into a boss fight and get nailed by everything... we wipe and then I go an entire fight while never even being close to anything.

But yeah its my ISP cause someone on the forums says so.

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Envoyé par Rochetm

Several years on the exact same connection and never had a problem with any other games. WoW I never get hit with anything. BF3 I dodge tank shells... FFXIV I randomly cannot dodge anything while other days nothing ever hits me. Sometimes it gets real fun and I go into a boss fight and get nailed by everything... we wipe and then I go an entire fight while never even being close to anything.

But yeah its my ISP cause someone on the forums says so.

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Your ISP can be fine, and so can everything on SE's end, and you can still have a problem. That's the point some of us are trying to make. Too many think because they don't have other issues with their ISP or local connection, it MUST be SE. Could it be something SE can control? Sure. But that also doesn't mean it is something they can fix, or that they have the power to get it changed.

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Envoyé par ispano

Your ISP can be fine, and so can everything on SE's end, and you can still have a problem. That's the point some of us are trying to make. Too many think because they don't have other issues with their ISP or local connection, it MUST be SE. Could it be something SE can control? Sure. But that also doesn't mean it is something they can fix, or that they have the power to get it changed.

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So.. not just to you, but to any others saying this is due to something on the user's end. Latency, lag.. isn't new to MMOs. I invite any of you to search the internet and provide an example where a player has been hit by an aoe they were clearly out of before the skill finished casting and the "red" went away.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

So.. not just to you, but to any others saying this is due to something on the user's end. Latency, lag.. isn't new to MMOs. I invite any of you to search the internet and provide an example where a player has been hit by an aoe they were clearly out of before the skill finished casting and the "red" went away.

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I invite you to the forums, this thread specifically: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29 That issue is known, however, that actually affects EVERYONE. Yet many people still have no issue with it? That issue is part of SE's server setup, yet many people have no issue with it?

You also missed my point. I never said it was on the User's end, I said that it's not necessarily SE's fault either. Guess how many companies/connections your connection goes through, that are not controlled by SE, SE's ISP, or your ISP?

And in some cases it IS your ISP. I know from experience that ISPs don't generally tell a customer if they have an issue somewhere that might cause weird latency problems with a certain game/server location. I had noise on my lines for almost a YEAR, with BUSINESS service from one ISP, because they couldn't find it, and I saw it every day. It only went away once they implemented upload channel bonding and I was able to get away from the affected channel.

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Envoyé par ispano

I invite you to the forums, this thread specifically: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29 That issue is known, however, that actually affects EVERYONE. Yet many people still have no issue with it? That issue is part of SE's server setup, yet many people have no issue with it?

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And as a community rep has already pointed out.. an accepted bug means nothing more than they have gathered enough evidence to do an investigation (maybe) at some point. It does not mean it's confirmed to be an issue or anything like that. Also, that issue is what people are calling lag.. that so many people claim doesn't exist, or it's on the person's end.. or all the people are lying.

I'm not really sure why you linked the thread to me, as it kind of proves my point? That issue doesn't happen outside of this MMO...

If it's not SE's fault.. then how does the issue not happen in any other game regardless of ISPs and so on? That was -my- point. ISPs, latency, lag.. none of that is new to the MMO industry at all. However the whole.. not being able to move out of things cause you get hit even when you are out.. that's unique to SE. They did something wrong on their end, people just don't want to admit it.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

I'm not really sure why you linked the thread to me, as it kind of proves my point? That issue doesn't happen outside of this MMO...

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And many ISPs throttle P2P traffic - Which is what FFXIV ARR is considered to be to some ISPs based on the "main" topic.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

And as a community rep has already pointed out.. an accepted bug means nothing more than they have gathered enough evidence to do an investigation (maybe) at some point. It does not mean it's confirmed to be an issue or anything like that. Also, that issue is what people are calling lag.. that so many people claim doesn't exist, or it's on the person's end.. or all the people are lying.

I'm not really sure why you linked the thread to me, as it kind of proves my point? That issue doesn't happen outside of this MMO...

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I linked it to you, because the situation you described is related to that issue. I never stated SE confirmed it as an issue. However that is confirmed by players to affect EVERYONE. Which means it's unanimous it's on SE's end. Now if SE decides it's not an issue to them, or maybe they will decide it is, then that's that. Also, this has happened in other MMOs, but it got fixed/changed. My point is that OUTSIDE of that issue, that people deal with easily all the time, other people are claiming other lag issues. But not everyone. I've experienced server lag, lag due to people choking my connection, lag due to packet loss. I know what it is. I know when it's the server lagging and not me. There are many things that can cause lag. I'm tired of people blaming it on one party when they really have no clue at all if it really is or not.

And I repeat, everyone has the issue in that link. But most people don't have "lag" issues, but no it must be that. It is an issue, I feel it should be fixed or whatnot. But it is completely playable even with said issue. Some people are having OTHER problems, which may compound it, but still, other problems that may or may not be SE's fault.

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Envoyé par Tupsi

And many ISPs throttle P2P traffic - Which is what FFXIV ARR is considered to be to some ISPs based on the "main" topic.

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Indeed, and to nip it in the bud before anyone else says anything. This is an ISP issue, not SE's in this case. While the data stream "might" look like P2P. With P2P you generally have multiple connections, not one to a single server. Plus the actual bandwidth used is tiny outside of patches. 100% ISP issue for this particular one.

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Envoyé par ispano

I never stated SE confirmed it as an issue. However that is confirmed by players to affect EVERYONE. Which means it's unanimous it's on SE's end. Now if SE decides it's not an issue to them, or maybe they will decide it is, then that's that. Also, this has happened in other MMOs, but it got fixed/changed.

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What people are calling lag though is getting out of aoe's and then still getting hit (at least anyone I know that cries lag). Some have it worse than others, sure.. but it hasn't happened in any other MMO. Ability lag and such? Sure.. But not being hit by things you were out of. If you provide me of an example of where that has happened, I will shut up. However, SE did something wrong with how the game handles latency and positioning for AOEs. People arguing that it's on the player end are just defending that there isn't anything wrong and will hurt the game in the long run (it is an issue that helped to kill 1.0).

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Envoyé par ispano

You may wish to add more groups to that. Because there are most certainly people who don't fit into any of them. I've had very little issue dodging mechanics on Titan, with ~200ms latency no less. I've dodged them when the server was lagging since I knew they were coming based on his rotation. Does that mean the servers are perfect? No. There are issues, the .3 second positional updates work, but could easily be better. HOWEVER. That doesn't mean people's connections aren't at issue either, or their ISP, or the route to the servers which SE has no control over, or many other things that could be an issue but will get brushed aside as being SE's problem to deal with.

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No three groups is fine, you fit into group C. Like has been said over and over and over no one is denying that for some it can be "net" lag problems.

The big three are net lag, pc lag and the 300ms forced on us. This has been talked about often and is nothing new to most of us. All of us are used to the first 2 which we can deal with using various methods. The problem is when people suffering from the first 2 have to also deal with the 3rd issue, especially since if people are honest about it they will admit even with a 31ms avg ping the 3rd issue can sometimes buck up and throw you.

SE cannot fix the first 2 issues but it can damn well fix the third. MMo are nothing new nowadays and we all have learned to deal with net lag and pc lag. Forcing a 300ms position check delay was asinine to start with, it doesn't matter if there are ways to "get around" the issues like doing the achy breaky dance before attacks come up.

It is not rocket science.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

What people are calling lag though is getting out of aoe's and then still getting hit (at least anyone I know that cries lag). Some have it worse than others, sure.. but it hasn't happened in any other MMO. Ability lag and such? Sure.. But not being hit by things you were out of. If you provide me of an example of where that has happened, I will shut up. However, SE did something wrong with how the game handles latency and positioning for AOEs. People arguing that it's on the player end are just defending that there isn't anything wrong and will hurt the game in the long run (it is an issue that helped to kill 1.0).

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Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag? What then? If it was such a serious problem, many many more people would be complaining about it. But many of us DON'T have the issue. I can't even count the amount of times I've just BARELY gotten out of, for example, Titan's weights, and not gotten hit. According to the people claiming lag, it's not possible.

So I repeat, the server sync and positional delay are indeed problems, but fixing or changing those will not get rid of the "lag" many people blame.

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Envoyé par Asmodeus

No three groups is fine, you fit into group C. Like has been said over and over and over no one is denying that for some it can be "net" lag problems.

The big three are net lag, pc lag and the 300ms forced on us. This has been talked about often and is nothing new to most of us. All of us are used to the first 2 which we can deal with using various methods. The problem is when people suffering from the first 2 have to also deal with the 3rd issue, especially since if people are honest about it they will admit even with a 31ms avg ping the 3rd issue can sometimes buck up and throw you.

SE cannot fix the first 2 issues but it can damn well fix the third. MMo are nothing new nowadays and we all have learned to deal with net lag and pc lag. Forcing a 300ms position check delay was asinine to start with doesn't matter if there are was the "get around" the issues like doing the achy breaky dance before attacks come up.

It is not rocket science.

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31ms? I have near 200ms. I have rarely gotten hit, and every time I have was my fault for not moving soon enough or moving the wrong way. And I don't move preemptively, I move when I see the markers.

Lastly, your "groupings"

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A - They often are not very skillful and like to blame lag and other issues on their lack of knowledge or mechanics of the game etc.

B - They are skillful, know the mechanics of the game and are able to objectively look at the game and see the issues, are often the ones starting threads wanting to get things fixed or at least get some answers.

C - You then have this last group who will deny there can be anything wrong on the game companies side and it is all your ISP, your pc, your lack of skill etc and they are unwilling to look at facts or attempt to use any common sense and refuse to admit maybe something should be done. This group also has a subset that admits even though they never ever see such problems maybe some others might but they should be able to get around the issues etc etc

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I don't fit A, dodging is a non issue for me. I don't fit B either, while I see the "issue", it doesn't affect me enough to cause an issue, and hence you don't find me on the forums clamoring for SE to fix it. I also do not fit C, because I'm NOT saying SE has nothing to do with it. I'm saying those who ARE blaming SE refuse to accept it MIGHT be on their end. Or even somewhere between them and SE, which again SE has no control over. There is no one shade of gray between black and white.

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Envoyé par ispano

And that's what they're trying to say. Seeing it in a video from SOMEONE ELSE is not the same as having the issue yourself. All that says is that SOME people have an issue, and that can easily be an issue with something out of SE's control.

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What does that have to do with what you said?

You said people haven't seen it so won't side with us. That's ridiculous. There is enough videos to prove it's happening. The debate should only be on HOW it is happening, NOT whether it's actually happening.

Again (broken record) I never laid this fault 100% at SE's feet. However, SE has it in their power to a. contact the isps that are causing the problem b. change their client to compensate for the lag.

It is not an issue outside of their control. They may not be the cause, but they most certainly have ways to counter what's happening.

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Envoyé par Allyra

What does that have to do with what you said?

You said people haven't seen it so won't side with us. That's ridiculous. There is enough videos to prove it's happening. The debate should only be on HOW it is happening, NOT whether it's actually happening.

Again (broken record) I never laid this fault 100% at SE's feet. However, SE has it in their power to a. contact the isps that are causing the problem b. change their client to compensate for the lag.

It is not an issue outside of their control. They may not be the cause, but they most certainly have ways to counter what's happening.

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I never said they wouldn't side with you. I said that because it's NOT happening to everyone, that pushes the potential issue AWAY from SE. Doesn't make it not their issue, just that it's now more likely to NOT be them. And no, there are plenty of network/internet issues that SE has 0 control over.

If, for an example, a router that some people have to go through is dropping packets. This router isn't part of your ISPs network, or the ISP SE uses, it's somewhere in the middle on someone elses network. Can SE call that company and tell them? Sure, doesn't mean much though since SE isn't their customer.

Also, lag compensation has drawbacks as well. Changing fights to help those with "lag" or connection issues, mostly just makes the fight easier for everyone else.

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Envoyé par Allyra

You didn't read my post. I did not say they have control over the internet, they have control over compensating for the issues.

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I did read your post. I edit in everything over the limit after the fact.

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Envoyé par ispano

And no, there are plenty of network/internet issues that SE has 0 control over.

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You didn't read my post. I did not say they have control over the internet, they have control over compensating for the issues.

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Envoyé par ispano

I never said they wouldn't side with you. I said that because it's NOT happening to everyone, that pushes the potential issue AWAY from SE. Doesn't make it not their issue, just that it's now more likely to NOT be them.

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Envoyé par Tupsi

This is what some people don't get - While you have people who have issues you have equally as many if not more who do not, how can you expect people to "come together" and basically say "yes there's a problem" if they've personally not had it or seen it?

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I mixed you with this person

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Envoyé par ispano

If, for an example, a router that some people have to go through is dropping packets. This router isn't part of your ISPs network, or the ISP SE uses, it's somewhere in the middle on someone elses network. Can SE call that company and tell them? Sure, doesn't mean much though since SE isn't their customer.

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Yes it means something. Big cooperations can work with companies a lot more easily that we can. We don't pay Tata either, so which do you think is going to have a bigger say?

As a community rep already reported, they are already doing so but in europe.

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Also, lag compensation has drawbacks as well. Changing fights to help those with "lag" or connection issues, mostly just makes the fight easier for everyone else.

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They plan on nerfing titan anyway, I'd rather that be the nerf if it eases stress on players.

They plan to nerf all "hard" content eventually, this has been known. But not before new content comes out to replace it.

In any case, my point is made. While you may or may not, many people claim "lag" as the reason for a failure to dodge. Some just didn't react in time. Some may have legitimate lag. Some may be experiencing server lag(Note the whole group would get it as well, which certainly does happen). The point is, that many or most of these people, REFUSE to accept that it's anything but SE's fault. Because they have Super Awesome Connection X or it doesn't happen elsewhere. I will happily point out a fault on SE's end, but I will not needlessly blame them without proof.

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Envoyé par ispano

Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag? What then? If it was such a serious problem, many many more people would be complaining about it. But many of us DON'T have the issue. I can't even count the amount of times I've just BARELY gotten out of, for example, Titan's weights, and not gotten hit. According to the people claiming lag, it's not possible.

.....

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Again and last time I reply to you, you fit group C. You are refusing to use common sense, you refuse to admit SE could very well improve the issue many are having because YOU with 200ms say its not causing you any issues.

I am in aussie guild even though I live in Canada, I have been in this guild for a quite a few years and many have adapted to to 300ms+ they often run into when there is no aussie based servers but add this 300ms delay on checks and the issue is acerbated. This is still true even though some can "get around" and as such "do not have any issues" like you claim.

The point is it is not about you and what you can do but about others and the issues THEY are having. No one has claimed the net is never at fault or there weak PC are never at fault. I would even go so far as to say those suffering from X (net lag) have even bigger issues with Z (300ms delay) than those like me that have a 31ms avg ping.

Just because there are 3 main issues X, Y and Z and some people are suffering from X and Y issues does not mean Z isn't an issues and we should lump everyones problems into X and Y because we are "fans".

Hell I would say there is in fact a 4th issue we face and its people defending SE in these threads clouding the issue the threads is mainly about and thereby making it harder to make SE hear us.




Heh some of the people in this thread make me think of people back in the day that refused to believe there was such a thing as global warming...

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Envoyé par Asmodeus

Again and last time I reply to you, you fit group C. You are refusing to use common sense, you refuse to admit SE could very well improve the issue many are having because YOU with 200ms say its not causing you any issues.

I am in aussie guild even though I live in Canada, I have been in this guild for a quite a few years and many have adpated to to 300ms+ they often run into when there is no aussie based servers but add this 300ms delay on checks and the issue is acerbated. This is still true even though some can "get around" and as such "do not have any issues" like you claim.

The point is it is not about you and what you can do but about others and the issues THEY are having. No one has claimed the net is never at fault or there weak PC are never at fault, we are saying claiming that assuming it is that in this age and day most people are aware of these isssues.

Just because there are 3 main issues X, Y and Z and some people are suffering from X and Y issues does not mean Z isn't an issues and we should lump everyones problems into X and Y because we are "fans".

Hell I would say there is in fact a 4th issue we face and its people defending SE in these threads clouding the issue the threads is mainly about and thereby making it harder to make SE hear us.s.

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You fail to read my posts. I 100% say SE could be at fault. But I also say that doesn't mean it IS their fault. I'm not defending SE. I'm pointing out that people refuse to accept that it can be anything BUT SE. And again, it very well could be. There are already known issues that we KNOW to be SE. But that doesn't mean ALL latency/lag issues are, and yet people STILL push said blame onto them. I would do this for a company I hate, because there's that group of people who refuse to accept that any problem can be from something other than the company they blame, much less themselves or something in between.

About the bolded part. You'd be surprised how many people DON'T actually know about the multitude of problems that can happen with their connection. Being a gamer doesn't actually mean those people are good with knowing how their connection works. No problem in that either. The problem is using said lack of knowledge to blame something or someone else.

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Envoyé par ispano

You fail to read my posts. I 100% say SE could be at fault. But I also say that doesn't mean it IS their fault. I'm not defending SE. I'm pointing out that people refuse to accept that it can be anything BUT SE. And again, it very well could be. There are already known issues that we KNOW to be SE. But that doesn't mean ALL latency/lag issues are, and yet people STILL push said blame onto them. I would do this for a company I hate, because there's that group of people who refuse to accept that any problem can be from something other than the company they blame, much less themselves or something in between.

About the bolded part. You'd be surprised how many people DON'T actually know about the multitude of problems that can happen with their connection. Being a gamer doesn't actually mean those people are good with knowing how their connection works. No problem in that either. The problem is using said lack of knowledge to blame something or someone else.

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I failed nothing, you and others keeps spouting the same thing over and over when people in this thread that DO know about these thing are posting and trying to get something done. You and others ARE obfuscating the issue we are trying to get fixed.

It is that simple.

The people you keep venting about fit in group A we all are aware of them the same as we are aware of group C.

If you are really as objective as you claim leave group C and come join us in group B and add you voice to wanting the 300ms delay fixed and dealt with instead of doing what you are doing.

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Envoyé par Asmodeus

Hell I would say there is in fact a 4th issue we face and its people defending SE in these threads clouding the issue the threads is mainly about and thereby making it harder to make SE hear us.

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You say people aren't using common sense...but doesn't common sense dictate that if there's an issue on SE's end and PURELY SE's end, everyone would be affected and not just a group of people?

So, invariably...it's SE's fault, it can never be a problem somewhere that isn't purely in SE's control?

"Yes, because it doesn't happen in other MMORPGS."

I get insane lag issues with Tera but I do not with FFXIV or GW2, so should I blame the company behind Tera? Or should I look to see if there's an issue maybe on my end somewhere? XIV is not built like other MMORPGs, it may use the same systems like quest based progression but the backend isn't exactly the same. SE can do everything in the world and people will still have issues because there's people out there who still have issues with WoW even though it's "perfect" as people keep passing off at times.

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Envoyé par Asmodeus

I failed nothing.

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Refusing to accept that you yourself might have failed, just makes you less believable. If you make a mistake, you accept that you made a mistake. That's the one big thing most people refuse to do. "I can do no wrong" is a very bad mentality. And again, since you refuse to read everything people say, I have always felt that SE could be at the root of the issue, or there is something they can do about it. Still doesn't mean it IS them, or that they CAN do something.

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Envoyé par Tupsi

You say people aren't using common sense...but doesn't common sense dictate that if there's an issue on SE's end and PURELY SE's end, everyone would be affected and not just a group of people?

So, invariably...it's SE's fault, it can never be a problem somewhere that isn't purely in SE's control?

"Yes, because it doesn't happen in other MMORPGS."

I get insane lag issues with Tera but I do not with FFXIV or GW2, so should I blame the company behind Tera? Or should I look to see if there's an issue maybe on my end somewhere? XIV is not built like other MMORPGs, it may use the same systems like quest based progression but the backend isn't exactly the same. SE can do everything in the world and people will still have issues because there's people out there who still have issues with WoW even though it's "perfect" as people keep passing off at times.

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Strawman argument, no one ever claimed its only at SE end and there could be no problems anywhere else. We do claim though fixing the 300ms delay would improve things.

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Envoyé par ispano

Refusing to accept that you yourself might have failed, just makes you less believable. If you make a mistake, you accept that you made a mistake. That's the one big thing most people refuse to do. "I can do no wrong" is a very bad mentality. And again, since you refuse to read everything people say, I have always felt that SE could be at the root of the issue, or there is something they can do about it. Still doesn't mean it IS them, or that they CAN do something.

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I am assuming you didn't wait a minute as I edited my post to get around the word limit. When I said I failed at nothing I meant in the fact that I did read your posts. Maybe I failed to communicate that properly.

No you are in group C because you are pretending to be reasonable via clever wording.

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Envoyé par ispano

Actually, many people have.

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And we don't care what they say as it is clear they fit in group A. By no one I mean the people starting these threads and trying to get something done that actually have a clue. IF you were as you claimed you would not keep going on about them and would be instead trying to get this issue fixed or at least get them to give us an answer.

Yet you don't and keep trolling, why is that?

Btw I hit my last daily post limit so I added this here, and with that I must say toodles!

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Envoyé par Asmodeus

Strawman argument, no one ever claimed its ONLY at SE ends and there could be no problems anywhere else.

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Actually, many people have.

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Envoyé par ispano

Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag?

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The problem here is there are tons of videos of people showing this is what happens. The strategy for Titan is pure illustration that it happens to a ton of people. You're still failing to provide one other example of an MMO that has had the exact problem of getting hit when you're out of stuff. I'm not even talking about the people who cry lag and then have no evidence to back it up. I'm not claiming some people don't have bad ISPs or that some ISPs are throttling bandwidth.

Obviously though, SE did something different than literally every other MMO on the market, and not in a good way (in relation to how they handle aoes, positional updates, and latency). The fact that I can do a Google search for the issue in any other game I can think of and come back with zero results of the issue is pretty solid proof of that. It doesn't, and hasn't happened in any game I have played going back to 2003. Have I rubber banded? Yeah.. has my FPS dropped, or things paused and then sped up? Sure.. that is not the issue though, and for the large part that's not what people are referring to as lag.

I've beat Titan, I've been in Coil. I don't buy the "but if they fix the issue the fight is just gonna be easier" bs. It's not hard to begin with, the whole positional update issue makes it hard and it's making players berate, and belittle people because for some it -is- an impossible wall strictly because of how the game does it's positioning. They have an issue, they need to fix it.. 1.0 is proof it causes lots of people to quit. People like you are just hurting the game further.

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Envoyé par ispano

Let me ask you something then. What if they made the servers sync player positions as close to instantly as possible, same with syncing clients. To remove said issue. And people still get hit and claim they were out and blame lag? What then? If it was such a serious problem, many many more people would be complaining about it. But many of us DON'T have the issue. I can't even count the amount of times I've just BARELY gotten out of, for example, Titan's weights, and not gotten hit. According to the people claiming lag, it's not possible.

So I repeat, the server sync and positional delay are indeed problems, but fixing or changing those will not get rid of the "lag" many people blame.

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You know things must be bad when you are forced to concede an argument to your own straw man.

To the people "the weird lag/positional update doesn't exist because I don't experience it", SE has already accepted the problem as a bug.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-everybody%29

I really think you're just making yourselves look silly, but whatever makes your knickers tighter.

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Envoyé par Goreth

You know things must be bad when you are forced to concede an argument to your own straw man.

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Lmao I was thinking that XD.

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Envoyé par Tupsi

I get insane lag issues with Tera but I do not with FFXIV or GW2, so should I blame the company behind Tera? Or should I look to see if there's an issue maybe on my end somewhere? XIV is not built like other MMORPGs, it may use the same systems like quest based progression but the backend isn't exactly the same. SE can do everything in the world and people will still have issues because there's people out there who still have issues with WoW even though it's "perfect" as people keep passing off at times.

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Like I said earlier in the thread, if you can prove you are getting no latency in FFXIV I will paypal you $500

Put autorun on and start casting any spell you want and see how long it takes before it's stopped despite having no ability to cast a spell on the run. If this doesn't convince you that the lag in this game is persistent, I don't think anything else will.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

The problem here is there are tons of videos of people showing this is what happens. The strategy for Titan is pure illustration that it happens to a ton of people. You're still failing to provide one other example of an MMO that has had the exact problem of getting hit when you're out of stuff. I'm not even talking about the people who cry lag and then have no evidence to back it up.

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The red stuff on the ground is a mechanic straight out of WoW. Odd how I never got hit with anything in that game unless I was actually in it. I also never saw a boss run half way across a room chase a tank who never moved... Tonight I helped some people with Hydra. First attempt two of us died standing under Hydra during his aoe... our bodies where under him... Stranger still is we where standing there for a long time.

This game has some very serious detection issues and my guess is when pvp hits people are really going to see just how bad it is.

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Envoyé par Rochetm

This game has some very serious detection issues and my guess is when pvp hits people are really going to see just how bad it is.

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PvP in the beta was already a lagfest, i'm not sure if they'll actually manage to "fix" this game.

My FC stacks for Weight of the Land, and we dodge almost every time. I think most of the lag issues are on players' end, and the strict movement requirements don't help. Really though, I think most people just don't have it in them to get it right every time, and they use lag as a scapegoat.

I ping 94ms from the UK and use a wireless connection.
Lag is very rarely ever an issue with Titan HM, story Titan is a different beast, there's something funky up with those servers, but with Hard Mode I either git gud our git out because lag has never killed me there.

I just did the "esuna test", and yeah. It seems like I'm one of the people who can cast esuna while running forward. While pretty neat, I don't think it is intended.... I really hope they'll answer to this issue rather quickly, since there are already two long topics and one very long topic about this very issue and all the problems it causes. For example avoiding aoe-attacks. (1 sec is pretty unforgiving,,)
(posted this on all three topics for bump)

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Envoyé par Goreth

You know things must be bad when you are forced to concede an argument to your own straw man.

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Except it's not a strawman. I asked a "what if" question. I didn't ignore anyone's argument, nor did I distort it. And my question was asked because I've played games without the positional delay, and people still have the same problems.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

The problem here is there are tons of videos of people showing this is what happens. The strategy for Titan is pure illustration that it happens to a ton of people. You're still failing to provide one other example of an MMO that has had the exact problem of getting hit when you're out of stuff. I'm not even talking about the people who cry lag and then have no evidence to back it up. I'm not claiming some people don't have bad ISPs or that some ISPs are throttling bandwidth.

Obviously though, SE did something different than literally every other MMO on the market, and not in a good way (in relation to how they handle aoes, positional updates, and latency). The fact that I can do a Google search for the issue in any other game I can think of and come back with zero results of the issue is pretty solid proof of that. It doesn't, and hasn't happened in any game I have played going back to 2003. Have I rubber banded? Yeah.. has my FPS dropped, or things paused and then sped up? Sure.. that is not the issue though, and for the large part that's not what people are referring to as lag.

I've beat Titan, I've been in Coil. I don't buy the "but if they fix the issue the fight is just gonna be easier" bs. It's not hard to begin with, the whole positional update issue makes it hard and it's making players berate, and belittle people because for some it -is- an impossible wall strictly because of how the game does it's positioning. They have an issue, they need to fix it.. 1.0 is proof it causes lots of people to quit. People like you are just hurting the game further.

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You know, I myself said that the positional update delay was an issue. I'm not attacking people who want that fixed first of all. My point was that even with sub par latency, you can still dodge fine. I have a friend, East Coast US. He plays on Japanese servers(Due to being Japanese himself) and never gets hit. His latency is much worse than mine. So yes, it most certainly is a problem(And i've said this multiple times in the thread already) and yes, it should be changed or fixed or whatever. But unless your connection is really bad, there's packet loss, line issues, routing issues, whatever, it's still perfectly possible to do the content. AGAIN. I agree with them changing it.

So let me ask another question. The answer will of course be speculation, because SE won't tell us, but do you know, or why do you think they made it this way?

EDIT: Since you insist, Tera EU has had people report the same issue with positional delay, and PvP is more prevalent in Tera. It was a year ago, so I have no idea if it was changed or fixed. I've seen other games with it as well, just couldn't name which ones off the top of my head right now.

The other thing you have to ask yourself, is if the game is balanced around the delay? Considering SE/Yoshi have talked about it, it's likely they designed the game around it being like that.

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Envoyé par kukurumei

there is still a large amount of pre-move, which is not right. It's basically fighting the server, not the battle.

The worse part is learning to run into landslide during P5 bombs. You have to do it before he ends his animation. That's messed up. to willing run into something you know should be killing you, just because the server is not synced correctly with your client.

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If you had Titan as your target you would see that landslide finishes casting before he slams the ground. If you are in said landslide before the cast is done, even if you run out of it before he hits, you will still be hit. People seem to think this is supposed to be an action game, it's not. There are delays, and they are set that way. I play in Germany on NA servers and I have yet to encounter any lag issues bar ones from my ISP. As I've seen in several other posts, for people who are lagging it is computer related, or ISP related (ask them about throttling). As for on topic, if you aren't zoomed out in Titan you are probably going to die. If you don't know that plumes spawn on people and that you should move to areas where people are not after plumes spawn under your feet, you are probably going to die. I have RARELY seen explicit cases of lag, but this was confirmed by the person to be an ISP issue which was fixed for him the next day.

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Envoyé par Sunarie

The problem here is there are tons of videos of people showing this is what happens. The strategy for Titan is pure illustration that it happens to a ton of people. You're still failing to provide one other example of an MMO that has had the exact problem of getting hit when you're out of stuff.

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Not sure how many times I have to say it, Hagan in WoW had exactly the same issue, it just wasn't anything like as severe because Blizzard didn't cheap out on the data centres and the movement was very simplistic by comparison.

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Envoyé par Sebazy

Not sure how many times I have to say it, Hagan in WoW had exactly the same issue, it just wasn't anything like as severe because Blizzard didn't cheap out on the data centres and the movement was very simplistic by comparison.

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And this is also a good answer to one of my questions, about why they did it this way. One reason to space out the positional updates, is server and bandwidth costs. To have it update more often, requires more server usage and more bandwidth usage. This being a "revived" MMO, that may not do so well, they likely made the decision to save some money, but then attempted to balance the game around the delay.

I've dodged aoes fine so far in the game and I play with ~260 ms. I find that the breaking point for me is about 320-350+ ms. Then I really have to be clutch with the movement.