#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Without healer player might be able to do MSQ dungeon, but let see how they will do trials and other contents.

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Keep seeing people here insist healers are useless, and yet the entire idea of this is attempting to hold everyone else hostage by not healing.

Those two things are not compatible.

This is ridiculous.

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Useless once you're in, still can't queue for a roulette without them, and no we're not "holding anyone hostage" by queueing as a DPS

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Keep seeing people here insist healers are useless, and yet the entire idea of this is attempting to hold everyone else hostage by not healing.

Those two things are not compatible.

This is ridiculous.

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The two things are entirely compatible, due to DF still 'requiring' one healer to be in the queue to cause a 'pop' for a Duty. It's the healer's presence that is required, not their HPS output. If the healers don't queue as healers, then the DF pops less often. If a player is in a dungeon or raid as a healer, they absolutely should heal, and facilitate completion of the duty. But the point is to just not queue as a healer in the first place, instead by queueing as Tank or DPS the queues would be even longer.

Players would have options to avoid the inconvenience this might cause, be that by using Trusts (but they're slower than players), playing with friends/FC members (which then means someone has to suck up playing on a healer), or playing a healer themselves to take advantage of the fast queues. That's the funny thing about this strike, most strikes deprive someone of a service entirely (eg the trains stop running completely). Here, there's alternatives, but the alternatives suck compared to regular service.

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Originally Posted by Merunari

There's something so incredibly frustrating about people citing that healers don't need a more engaging DPS rotation because they're healers first and that's what their primary job should be and say that if healers want to heal more, they should play harder content (raids, savages) where parties actively work together to minimize the amount of healing that needs to be done.

So once you've minimized that healing, where exactly does that leave us? Oh, right. Back at square one with our lack of engaging DPS rotation to make up for not needing to heal.

You can't design encounters around requiring healer DPS and then also say that healers should be focusing on healing instead when a) there's very little to nothing to heal and b) the encounters themselves literally want us to DPS, regardless of what Yoshi-P himself may say on the matter (ie that healers don't need to worry about DPSing). If you're going to design encounters around requiring healer DPS, healers should have a more engaging DPS rotation. That's really all there is to it.

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There will always be differences on opinions about what the ideal healer gameplay is. And those can be perfectly valid regardless of what group content those players engage in. Savage and ultimate content doesn't have a monopoly on using heals, I am fairly sure there are far more people using healers in roulette content than there are healers doing savage/ultimate content. Seeing repeated demands to run savage/ultimate content before someone can complain about how WAR tanks are completely invalidating healers in dungeon is probably at least frustrating to many people.

And FF encounters can most certainly be designed for far more engaging healing. They aren't designed that way at the moment but that in itself a valid prove that encounters can't be designed in a different way.

Claiming your opinion is "all there is to it" for an ongoing disagreement, is dismissive to the point of being insulting to people with different opinion. I encourage you to think about your own frustration some more, and how you can avoid to being the source of that in other people.

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Originally Posted by Kilyua

Without healer player might be able to do MSQ dungeon, but let see how they will do trials and other contents.

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Aren't people mad that Ultimates and such can be cleared without a healer?
I'm sure a trial isn't on the same difficulty scale, so I'm guessing there will be those who can do so.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

...or playing a healer themselves to take advantage of the fast queues. That's the funny thing about this strike, most strikes deprive someone of a service entirely (eg the trains stop running completely). Here, there's alternatives, but the alternatives suck compared to regular service. Here, there's alternatives, but the alternatives suck compared to regular service.

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Yep whenever somebody says we are holding other people "hostage" by "depriving" them of a healer there is such a simple answer to it: just play healer yourself.

What is that? You don't want to? Why not? It's not fun to you? By your unwillingness to play one you are, by that logic, depriving the community, of a healer, as well.


So why do you get to make that decision for yourself but when we do the same we are somehow denying the community something, as if touching and liking healer at some point in our lives now somehow binds us to a duty to be of service to the rest of the player base and ensure they have fast queue times.

"I wouldn't play a healer to ease the burden on queue times but if you don't play one you are holding the community hostage" is peak entitlement.

Being a healer is not a part of our DNA.
It is a role we like(d) for fun in a video game and we can move on from it any time, for any amount of time and in any capacity we want.

That's literally just us choosing how to engage in our hobby in the way that is the most fun for us.

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Originally Posted by Kilyua

Without healer player might be able to do MSQ dungeon, but let see how they will do trials and other contents.

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I intend to try and do all the content without healers!

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Originally Posted by Anatha

Keep seeing people here insist healers are useless, and yet the entire idea of this is attempting to hold everyone else hostage by not healing.

Those two things are not compatible.

This is ridiculous.

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It is compatible. We are not required by the game's MECHANICS or DESIGN for the majority of content, as has been proven time and time again. We are, however, required only by the game's enforcement of the trinity through the duty finder - a feature that facilitates the running of most content. The strikes hits on that second part by enacting the first part. It's quite clever, really.

If it's ok that both the easiest and hardest content can be done absent healers, imo it's time to start doing away with roles and just make every job a jack of all trades.

The question is, are tank mains actually OK with that? I suspect they aren't.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

I intend to try and do all the content without healers!

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Me too! I was thinking of leveling a warrior just to demonstrate even an average player like me can get by without a healer on that job.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

The question is, are tank mains actually OK with that? I suspect they aren't.

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As a former tank main I think both sides of the equation are broken. Ran through ARR as a Warrior and never stopped to think "if only I had Hallowed Ground on a 25 second cooldown I could clear this pull" and switched to DRK once I hit Heavensward which is... certainly one of the tanks in the game.

Last time I played it was a Praetorium run where the Sage spammed Prognosis, not E. Prognosis, Prognosis. I'm sure Duty Finder will be in good hands while I play PIC.

I would also like to add my name to this.

The healer role for me no longer feels like it makes any sense in the larger context of the game. My main issues is a poor DPS rotation that feels hollow and unrewarding. In addition, why are we stuck casting the same main damaging ability for another 2-3years?! (glare, malefic fall ect)...Potency buffs were a cheap way to keep from making fresh animations.

Another large issue for me is class fantasy. There is SO much potential in what already exists but it is consistently squandered in favouring homogenisation. I get it. Its complicated to balance it all, but please put a team together that actually PLAYS healers to address the issues that confront us.

#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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Originally Posted by sdr26

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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He certainly based much of 7.0 and its marketing on her feedback about midcore content.

Let's see what happens.

I get the feeling this strike is everyone saying "design a healer that suits my specific play style" and everyone having a different play style. Some want more damage and randomized damage, some want more DPS options, some want more support options, some want to change it into a support role and add other jobs to it. In the end the problem is that there are very different wants from everyone and no matter what they choose the people that didn't get their way are going to be right back here saying the same things.

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Originally Posted by sdr26

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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And she has a pretty good take on it https://youtu.be/eg_-J2AMh0U?feature=shared&t=4756
I agree with her take far more than the opinions of the healer main she is watching and commenting on.

Funniest thing to wake up to

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Originally Posted by sdr26

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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Zelpa is talking about. We're doomed

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Originally Posted by sdr26

You guys did it. Zelpa is talking about it which Yoshi-P watches her videos. We will see what happens.

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I'm sure the 184 page thread gets far more attention than a Zepla VOD. lol

That said, they continue to drag their feet on healer changes even though the team has stated in the past that they are aware. Based on the changes we've seen so far, my hopes aren't high for Dawntrail. Even if they introduce a few new mechanics to give healers a "little" more to do.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I get the feeling this strike is everyone saying "design a healer that suits my specific play style" and everyone having a different play style. Some want more damage and randomized damage, some want more DPS options, some want more support options, some want to change it into a support role and add other jobs to it. In the end the problem is that there are very different wants from everyone and no matter what they choose the people that didn't get their way are going to be right back here saying the same things.

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I will take literally ANYTHING that fulfills these simple desires (ast specific):
-a way to consistently be able to use a dps rotation but not fixed but instead requires some level (simple at the lowest skill level but able to be nuanced for maximum damage and possibly have multiple different variations) of understanding of to pull off.
-give me my cards back!!! I like playing at higher APM (we do not need the cards to have multiple charges, however. that was a common complaint)
-cards have flavor again and do unique things based on lore and I can place them on allies at my own digression
-pruning of the healer kit but only where necessary as I do not need to use a majority of it

bonus:
-delete undraw (if it hasn't already been deleted)
-delete minor arcana
-rework synastry to also interact with abilities like essential dignity and have other interactions with the kit
-give ast back its sects AND have those stances interact with the dps kit (without destroying the dps kit in the process of course)
-if the two sects return just delete neutral sect
-bring back royal road
-bring back time dilation (tweaked as needed)
-give us back the old effects celestial opposition had (but tweaked as needed)

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I was talking to a healer friend about this and they mentioned the main problem is that our kit has very little depth and synergy. With a lot of our skills feeling disjointed and not interacting with one another.
They put forward the idea of a healing rotation. A more in-depth way to engage with your kit. Buttons proc-ing other, more powerful buttons that would couple with another third button. This would all be a mix of healing and mitigation with some debuffing/buffing added for extra incentive. A bit more in-depth like the DPS rotation.

I don't know if this has already been thought of or not, just wanted to add their voice to this since they don't come to the Forum.

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It is very cringe to quote yourself, but I wanted to add this:

How about giving a healing rotation on par with a DPS rotation in terms of depth? Press 1 button which will make another in a combo light up, that could be a stronger heal with an attack added when combo-ed right and could end with another choice of 2 buttons, a strong heal with either a buff or a debuff depending on the button pressed. Making the kit more engaging while adding some decision-making could lead to interesting gameplay and solve a lot of the issues. All the while doing a lot of healing and sprinkling some nice effects onto it!
Originally, I thought this was how SGE would play. A bit disappointed when I picked it up and saw it was more of the same...

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I get the feeling this strike is everyone saying "design a healer that suits my specific play style" and everyone having a different play style. Some want more damage and randomized damage, some want more DPS options, some want more support options, some want to change it into a support role and add other jobs to it. In the end the problem is that there are very different wants from everyone and no matter what they choose the people that didn't get their way are going to be right back here saying the same things.

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Then make 4 healers with 4 unique play styles. that's going to cut the problem into a much smaller issue.

Hot take, they should draw inspo from PvP. Give everyone strong self heals, rework all the healers to have a mostly DPS kit, and move toward freeform compositions where all the players can play whatever and it works. DRS is peak combat design.

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Originally Posted by Nyome

I'm sure the 184 page thread gets far more attention than a Zepla VOD. lol

That said, they continue to drag their feet on healer changes even though the team has stated in the past that they are aware. Based on the changes we've seen so far, my hopes aren't high for Dawntrail. Even if they introduce a few new mechanics to give healers a "little" more to do.

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It'll be a combination. The more avenues they have to see it, the better. So we have forum threads, reddit posts, streamers talking about it, I even saw a game journo article about it earlier.

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Originally Posted by Nyome

I'm sure the 184 page thread gets far more attention than a Zepla VOD. lol

That said, they continue to drag their feet on healer changes even though the team has stated in the past that they are aware. Based on the changes we've seen so far, my hopes aren't high for Dawntrail. Even if they introduce a few new mechanics to give healers a "little" more to do.

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not sure about that when they had a well written 177 page thread for four years and did nothing...

I dont expect this thread to have more traction than a streamer. they had a chance to show they "listen". though I blame the community team more than Yoshi, since they are supposed to take feedback from the forums to them. says something about that process if it takes streamers bringing bad PR to it to get attention. and it isnt a good something.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

It is very cringe to quote yourself, but I wanted to add this:

How about giving a healing rotation on par with a DPS rotation in terms of depth? Press 1 button which will make another in a combo light up, that could be a stronger heal with an attack added when combo-ed right and could end with another choice of 2 buttons, a strong heal with either a buff or a debuff depending on the button pressed. Making the kit more engaging while adding some decision-making could lead to interesting gameplay and solve a lot of the issues. All the while doing a lot of healing and sprinkling some nice effects onto it!
Originally, I thought this was how SGE would play. A bit disappointed when I picked it up and saw it was more of the same...

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I would really love this kind of rotational depth for (one/some of the) healers but I wonder if it's practically possible because a rotation is basically a looped routine and healing is generally reactive (and ideally also sometimes unplanned).
So it might be possible that there is (un)foreseen damage coming in but you are a at a point in your combo where you don't have the right tool available.

But perhaps if playing through that loop generated healing tools that we could store this problem could be circumvented.
We'd start with some limited tools and oGCDs in case there is damage right at the beginning of a fight and then build up our remaining resources by going through our rotation.

While reading your description I immediately thought of sage so it's cool that you mentioned it too and we thought alike.


A routine-based healer is certainly not for everyone but it would be cool if perhaps one healer played like that. It would add more variety and flavour to the role.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I would really love this kind of rotational depth for (one/some of the) healers but I wonder if it's practically possible because a rotation is basically a looped routine and healing is generally reactive (and ideally also sometimes unplanned).
So it might be possible that there is (un)foreseen damage coming in but you are a at a point in your combo where you don't have the right tool available.

But perhaps if playing through that loop generated healing tools that we could store this problem could be circumvented.
We'd start with some limited tools and oGCDs in case there is damage right at the beginning of a fight and then build up our remaining resources by going through our rotation.

While reading your description I immediately thought of sage so it's cool that you mentioned it too and we thought alike.


A routine-based healer is certainly not for everyone but it would be cool if perhaps one healer played like that. It would add more variety and flavour to the role.

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Mm.. my thought exactly.
Healing isn't something done by a rotation but by reaction.
So when someone earlier suggested putting healing into a dps rotation I instead suggested to simply add a DPS rotation and leave the heals by themselves, as reactional skills.
But that the rotation wouldn't get interrupted if you would have to cast a heal mid rotation.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Mm.. my thought exactly.
Healing isn't something done by a rotation but by reaction.
So when someone earlier suggested putting healing into a dps rotation I instead suggested to simply add a DPS rotation and leave the heals by themselves, as reactional skills.
But that the rotation wouldn't get interrupted if you would have to cast a heal mid rotation.

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Yes, that also sounds like a good solution!

If they were more daring with healer design they could approach each one differently in terms of their DPS profile.

You could keep one/some with a few simple damage skills, one/some with a rotation like you described, one/some that build resources while DPSing, one/some that are a mix of both etc.

I feel like reactive healing should be a standard part of most encounters, not an exception that only happens as a result of others failing.

The untelegraphed busters used by bosses like Susanoo and Ravana were fundamentally more engaging to heal through then casted ones that give you a good three or four seconds to react to.

Please make sure to demolish your houses while you strike, i could use more shells :D

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Originally Posted by Dysvalence

Hot take, they should draw inspo from PvP. Give everyone strong self heals, rework all the healers to have a mostly DPS kit, and move toward freeform compositions where all the players can play whatever and it works. DRS is peak combat design.

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dear gods no. Anything but this.

They applied a single pvp system to the entirety of PvP. which was the WORST decision they could've made. Frontlines, (while still entertaining at times, when there's none of the premades from the PvP discord running their BS) has suffered imo because of it. CC PvP mechanics should have stayed locked to CC. They old PvP system could've been kept. instead all they did was "frontline" their new PvP system into all forms of PvP. (pun intended)

I do not want them treating our roles like the PvP balancing system. Gods no.

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Originally Posted by Dysvalence

Hot take, they should draw inspo from PvP. Give everyone strong self heals, rework all the healers to have a mostly DPS kit, and move toward freeform compositions where all the players can play whatever and it works. DRS is peak combat design.

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I mostly disagree with giving everyone else more self sustain, but I do strongly agree with using PVP job design as inspiration to elaborate healer offensive capabilities. Like let SCH buff Biolysis, and spread it with Deployment Tactics. Give AST Double Cast, and build a DPS rotation around it. It's great that they gave WHM a dash, but give it Seraph Strike! Yes, turn SGE into a green DPS.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

Please make sure to demolish your houses while you strike, i could use more shells :D

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https://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/1000v/...or-3989688.jpg

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I get the feeling this strike is everyone saying "design a healer that suits my specific play style" and everyone having a different play style. Some want more damage and randomized damage, some want more DPS options, some want more support options, some want to change it into a support role and add other jobs to it. In the end the problem is that there are very different wants from everyone and no matter what they choose the people that didn't get their way are going to be right back here saying the same things.

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Then they can make the jobs unique while respecting their original concepts. Sage was supposed to be the dps healer so give it more dps buttons. Astrologian has support cards, so make the cards more interesting and add back the time modification and spread effects for advanced card play.

One word for this.

Cringe.

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Originally Posted by Sarevok_Thordin

One word for this.

Cringe.

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Agreed, Cringe is the best way to describe current healer design

Yes, it's cringe for people to have finally hit a breaking point after their role has been repeatedly ignored after around five years of well-articulated negative feedback.

I'd say it's already succeeded at the purpose of drawing attention to a problem considering multiple media outlets and content creators have reacted to it. Whether they actually agree with it or not is irrelevant.

Making every job a jack of all trades role wise is one solution to this problem, but not one I support. Since this version of FF opted to dive into jobs, I feel like they should stick to the traditional job design of FF or just make an entirely new game. FF isn't GW2, it isn't any other MMO.

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Originally Posted by IvoryHawk

Please make sure to demolish your houses while you strike, i could use more shells :D

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still planning on playing, but nice try.

I don't even see anyone in game going on about it.