Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

No, I think it would be possible to have one tank as a main tank, and another tank that specializes in off-tanking mechanics, or some other aspect. I also stated I think WARs need a fix.

Also, don't you think a 20 year old game (its just nearing 14 btw) would have some credence in viable game-play just based on the fact that its been around for so long?

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Having PLD brought to all end game content and force WAR to offtank maybe some areas of endgame and sit in 4man dungeons is viable game-play? A 20 year old game that uses this train of thought doesn't mean it's a good train of thought just because it has been around for 20 years.

PLD´s dont want Wars to be fixed , they want to MT everything while wars OT.

in 2 months there will be 0 wars running around and ppl that wanted to tank , rerolling PLD (if they arent already)

Plds dont want competition for MT role? lol GL with that when every WAR reroll PLD if SE doesnt fix warriors.

having 1 job for MT and another for OT is bad design.

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Originally Posted by pepero

Having PLD brought to all end game content and force WAR to offtank maybe some areas of endgame and sit in 4man dungeons is viable game-play? A 20 year old game that uses this train of thought doesn't mean it's a good train of thought just because it has been around for 20 years.

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You are not understanding me - partially my fault. My thought would be to create mechanics that would allow WARs to do things very easily that PLDs would struggle with, through various adjustments. I am simply presenting an idea that would be alternative to have two different classes competing for the exact same role. Black Mage and Summoner are both caster dps, but they are desired for different reasons. I am not resisting a fix to WARs at all, I am advocating it.

Also, I do think a paid service being around for 20 years speaks to its success. Since its a GAME, I would imagine that the GAME PLAY is pretty good if it has been financial viable for 20 (14) years.

Hrm... Just wondering but.
Have you guys considered that maybe you're holding too dearly to your wrath stacks for the healing buff and not considering that rapid and constant self-healing by spending those stacks might be worth more?
I can't say much on these regards i'm just slowly inching into endgame myself and i'm a Dragoon but the theory behind Warrior seems to be to have enough HP to take any big hit and not overburden the healers any more than normal by healing what a Paladin would mitigate by yourself.

That said, here have a link of a party dealing with Turn 5 of the Coil with a Warrior tank

I still think we might be doing it wrong..... Just maybe.....

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Originally Posted by Skies

Hrm... Just wondering but.
Have you guys considered that maybe you're holding too dearly to your wrath stacks for the healing buff and not considering that rapid and constant self-healing by spending those stacks might be worth more?

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I found this to be true.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

I found this to be true.

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You *opine* that it happens to be true. There isn't one whit of mathematical evidence that it actually happens to be true since you behave as if every Inner Beast that you use every 20 seconds is buffed by Berserk and Inner Release.

The only Inner Beasts that are worth using are those that are heavily buffed by DPS CDs when you're getting jack and shite for heals over the next GCD or one that is proceeded immediately by the use of Inner Beast.

Just because you happen to use it and happen to not die doesn't mean that it's actually better. Wrath V is *way* better than Inner Beast outside of a few conditions that cannot be constantly maintained nor will they always be immediately available because you can only burn one off-GCD ability between attacks.

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Originally Posted by Skies

Hrm... Just wondering but.
Have you guys considered that maybe you're holding too dearly to your wrath stacks for the healing buff and not considering that rapid and constant self-healing by spending those stacks might be worth more?

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Yes, the theory. Keyword: Theory. We've had more than enough theory in this thread to supply a philosopher for years. We don't need more.

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That said, here have a link of a party dealing with Turn 5 of the Coil with a Warrior tank

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A warrior offtank, who himself posted that he had to kite his targets around when a gladiator wouldn't have, because warriors can't actually take hits.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

But Maths and stuff!

You have to press buttons to get it up that high!

My math says you're wrong!

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If you played WAR correctly your math doesn't add up. I can use 2 IBs in one Berserk so that totals to between 3500 to 5800 HP regenned and half the time I don't even need that much! lol

My rotations insure that my IBs are buffed, no worries. :)

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Originally Posted by Faction

A warrior offtank, who himself posted that he had to kite his targets around when a gladiator wouldn't have, because warriors can't actually take hits.

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WARs can't kite worth beans. He's setting there with 7500 HP and calling that mitigation. No wonder he has to kite. What WARs have to do is catch hate on multi targets and DPS the bejeezus off of one and kill it to mitigate the damage through self healing and the "Death" debuff.

off topic: Hiir how is coil going anyway these days?

For those that make the silly argument "I've seen warriors do X". I as a healer will tell you that we ARE carrying them and dear god healing them is like playing with a paper cut on the center of your fingers.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

If you played WAR correctly your math doesn't add up. I can use 2 IBs in one Berserk so that totals to between 3500 to 5800 HP regenned and half the time I don't even need that much! lol

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You can use 2 IBs in Inner Beast if you also have Infuriate up. It takes 7 GCDs to get Infuriated, assuming you start partway into a combo, and you need 2 more GCDs to use Inner Beast. This means that, in the absolute best case, you need 9 GCDs. Unless your GCD has been brought down to 2.22 seconds (which is 12.5% from Skill Speed), you're talking out of your ass.

The way you talk about using Inner Beast, it is mathematically *impossible* for every single one that you use (and you claim to use it every 20-30 seconds) to be buffed with Berserk. *Mathematically impossible*. Unless you admit that Inner Beast is only useful once every 60-90 seconds rather than every flipping 20 seconds, you're talking out of your ass yet again. Seriously, you don't even try to confront the math; you just pull impossible numbers out of your ass and hope that it sticks.

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My rotations insure that my IBs are buffed, no worries. :)

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Because it perturbs me and you perturb me even more, if what you're saying is true, your rotation *ensures* that all of your IBs are buffed. If IB is insuring that all of your IBs are buffed, you'd be getting a monetary payout every time that it didn't. You're not that good with English, are you?

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What WARs have to do is catch hate on multi targets and DPS the bejeezus off of one and kill it to mitigate the damage through self healing and the "Death" debuff.

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Once again, you're saying that WAR somehow has magical uber-DPS capabilities that the PLD doesn't have. PLD has DPS that is just as good as a WAR. Hell, if you're saving Berserk for times when you need Inner Beast, which you apparently always do, you're going to do *less* damage than a PLD because you're not ensuring maximum contribution from Berserk.

It's getting annoying having to constantly point out exactly how wrong you are and how you keep using the same arguments that have been demonstrably proven to be untrue time and time again. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true, no matter how hard you try. It just makes you look like an idiot desperate to salvage some kind of relevance when he's discovered that his position is completely and utterly wrong. Hell, you're resorting to strawman arguments because you don't know how to *actually* counteract the fact that I keep bringing up the *impossibility* of your statements.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

You can use 2 IBs in Inner Beast Berserk if you also have Infuriate up.

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To quote Chuck Testa... Nope.

If you use Berserk to trigger Wrath V you can use IB immediately following.

If you've got Skill Speed on you instead of VIT / Parry Stacking and Especially if you have the SCH Fey light on top of that, you can get to the next Wrath V in under twelve seconds.

And don't bother asking me how... I'll explain. If you were a WAR and were efficient Wrath stacker than you would already know but here you go.

Vengeance is one Free Wrath Count that with your Maim, Storms Eye, combo and go directly to your Butcher's Block combo 6 GCDs to your next Wrath V, not 8, not 7. Vengeance doesn't have a GCD. Even with no Skill speed that's 15 seconds, not 20. And considering that my GCD is 2.4 without Fey Light, that's down to 14.4. And my skill speed is buffed by Fey Light which is 30% more, then that translates into Under 12 seconds...

So you can see why I love SCH so much. SCH is my favorite heal class. Fey Light cures me more than a WHM ever could.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

and not even on TBC druids and paladins were able to tank RAIDS , heroics and trash yeah but druids and paladins were not able to tank raid bosses. (maybe druids in kara....)

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Bear Druids were pretty decent in TBC with the only real "lol u cant tank this" fight being Illidan (since Illidan had Shear and it could only be mitigated by forcing a guaranteed shield block, with only Prot warriors and paladins could).

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

You are not understanding me - partially my fault. My thought would be to create mechanics that would allow WARs to do things very easily that PLDs would struggle with, through various adjustments. I am simply presenting an idea that would be alternative to have two different classes competing for the exact same role.

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Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Except this defeats the purpose of having a tank roster, which takes us back to the why it is a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something while the other is designed to be inferior for the sake of being different.

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- What is the purpose of having a tank roster? If I defeat it, does it drop loot?
- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking? (I am NOT saying WARs are this right now)

I would re-roll as WAR the second I get home today if I knew that they would become the elite off-tank class that uses complicated skills and mechanics to manage specific groups of mobs in a specialized manner. That sounds awesome to me, I would log off happy every night tanking in group dungeons, or saving the skin of my friends in raids by doing things no one else can. Especially those dirty Pallys.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

If you use Berserk to trigger Wrath V you can use IB immediately following.

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So you have Berserk available every 10 seconds? You keep acting as if you *always* have CDs up *at all times*. You will *cannot* have Infuriate and Berserk available every 20 seconds which you continually claim. Of course, you also claim that you use Inner Beast only when it's absolutely required but then say that you're using it *as soon as possible* within a *massively* tight timing.

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If you've got Skill Speed on you instead of VIT / Parry Stacking and Especially if you have the SCH Fey light on top of that, you can get to the next Wrath V in under twelve seconds.

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Care to tell us how much skill speed you've got? My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it). On top of that, I'm curious how exactly you got that much since it's not like there's a lot of gear with tank grade defense on it that also happens to have skill speed.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Care to tell us how much skill speed you've got? My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it). On top of that, I'm curious how exactly you got that much since it's not like there's a lot of gear with tank grade defense on it that also happens to have skill speed.

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That's why HQ Darksteel is better than Darklight... you can do things like this.

And don't ask me how much Skill speed I have when you can do the math and figure it yourself.

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My WAR has 351 and my GCD is 2.49 seconds. I'm curious exactly how much is required to get my GCD down that low (I couldn't find any formula for it).

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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=10

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Originally Posted by Rios-Drakoon

Tell me something,

Let the People the choice, Warrior or Paladin, when both are equal then ist ok, then you can say "Bring the People and not the Class"

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I have seen a few FC's with a WAR maintank for coil/Titan HM sooooo what are they doing that others are not? Also even if a paladin can tank coil now, and will have an easier time after Crystal Tower gear, a warrior will have an easier time then now too. Are your free companies this terrible that they NEED the easiest classes to perform? Do they just stack BRD/SMN as dps because "Well they are best!!!"?

Also calling for nerfs on a class or buffs without tons of data to fall back on is what plagued WoW's forums and resulted in every class ping ponging around. Class A gets a nerf, B gets a buff, everyone jumps to playing B over A, so then A gets buffed next. Its pathetic.

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Lets imagine you want to play a Paladin, but teleportation costs on that class are 5 times higher than every other class in the game. You can still teleport. It's harder for you than your peers, sure, but it's still do-able. Now, suddenly, there is a new place with great gear and amazing content you can only reach by Teleporting there. On top of that, to obtain this gear, you must teleport in and out frequently.

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This metaphor makes no sense. This isn't a monetary issue.

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What does incredibly obvious and massive class imbalance matter, guys? What does it matter?!

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Do warriors need tweaks? Probably, I would like to be able to use Inner Beast more often or have foresight buffed through a trait for warriors. But you people are screaming bloody murder over this. People shouldn't be raiding Coil in this level of gear honestly, since Crystal Tower should have been released, but it wasnt. Would this still be a huge discussion if CT was out? If Warriors were geared up through CT I bet they would have far less deaths in Coil due to massive damage spikes...but go on and call for nerfs across the board on another class while others seemingly are able to play this class.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

And don't ask me how much Skill speed I have when you can do the math and figure it yourself.

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So, using the spreadsheet Tronic provided as well as your character, I can tell you're talking out of your ass. You've got 432 Skill Speed. That gives you a GCD of 2.41, which is *well* away from the 1.25 seconds that you're claiming to have.

Does your ass ever get tired of you never using your mouth to do the speaking?

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Originally Posted by SatrinaKali

People shouldn't be raiding Coil in this level of gear honestly, since Crystal Tower should have been released, but it wasnt. Would this still be a huge discussion if CT was out? If Warriors were geared up through CT I bet they would have far less deaths in Coil due to massive damage spikes...but go on and call for nerfs across the board on another class while others seemingly are able to play this class.

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I think the real argument is that people are raiding coil with PLD MT much easier than WAR MT now. I recall Hiir stating WAR MT is not viable in the later turns. If PLD can do it, why can't WAR?

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

- Why is it a bad thing to have one tank preferred for something, as long as the other is preferred for another thing?
- Why is an off-tank specialist inferior if they are superior at off-tanking?

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Loaded question, but fine. Because a tank is a tank is a tank. And when one is less of a tank than another (which is what "off-tank specialist" boils down to), you run into representation problems and balance problems, not to mention idiotic labels and stigmas. A PLD can off-tank just fine and still mitigate damage better than a WAR, so whatever pipe dream you have about WAR being an "off-tank specialist" is moot.

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

most healer loves PLD </3
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ior-or-Paladin

Yesterday Garuda

PLD was MT i was Add Tank, fine with me.

After some AoEs one Healder Died... the other Healer got NO instant Raise..
PLD Says: easy you can raise him.. he put his 40%dmg reduce on, and the healer could easy raise the other one, and we killed Garuda.

With Warrior as MT NOT POSSIBLE.

Yes, maybee Warrior can Tank Coil, yes after Crystal Tower anyway.
Yes Warrior can Tank Titan HM
yes
yes
yes

But ist alot easier with Paladin, and thats the MAIN POINT!!!!!
Aslong something will be easier with Tank A, Tank B always will be just a half ass sucker second class Tank

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I think the real argument is that people are raiding coil with PLD MT much easier than WAR MT now. I recall Hiir stating WAR MT is not viable in the later turns. If PLD can do it, why can't WAR?

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Because of the fact that PLD take less dmg by default, they don't need as much gear as WAR do. And since Crystal Tower was meant as a bridge to doing Coil, it allows PLD who are less gear dependent to jump the bridge, while WAR jumps and then sprains it's leg halfway across.

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Yesterday Garuda
PLD was MT i was Add Tank, fine with me.
After some AoEs one Healder Died... the other Healer got NO instant Raise..
PLD Says: easy you can raise him.. he put his 40%dmg reduce on, and the healer could easy raise the other one, and we killed Garuda.

With Warrior as MT NOT POSSIBLE.

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Sounds like the healer wasnt paying attention then and should probably learn to dodge mechanics correctly. That's like saying "Healer died on Ifrit to a charge/plume and since I was WAR the other healer couldn't rez him :( :( :("

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Loaded question, but fine. Because a tank is a tank is a tank.

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Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Both jobs are vying for the same role, and as such should be interchangeable while being mechanically different enough to have their own identity. Wangstrong's post is pretty much spot on in that regard.

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Yeah, so, I don't get why you think that I think that WARs are amazing off-tanks right now. They need to be fixed, unless we are all missing something. "Off tank specialist" would mean someone that has special abilities that allow them to tank multiple, or specific, mobs with greater efficiency. Not someone who isn't quite as good as the other tank, so they are subjugated to a lessor role.

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Originally Posted by SatrinaKali

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

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Thank you for your succinct verbalization of what I was attempting to iterate earlier : D

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Originally Posted by SatrinaKali

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately.

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Who said anything about both being exactly the same? I don't think any of the WAR proponents are asking for it to be turned into a second paladin.

As for the attempted "encounter design" argument, all that does is lead to classisms and is also a short-term solution. I'm under no delusion that WAR and PLD will be the only members of the tank roster, and expect more jobs to join us as the game ages. With that in mind, you cannot split them by niche performance, but instead by mechanics while attaining the same results. This means the tanks stand out on their own while also being equally capable of tanking HM Leviathan, HM Ramuh and whatever additions to BCoB and CT we'll get. An application of "bring the player, not the class", if you will.

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Originally Posted by SatrinaKali

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

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The effective hp of both tanks is practically identical. 2 Paladin is > Paladin+Warrior in any situation.

Hey just a suggestion, play the game. You are yet another forum theoryking.

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Originally Posted by SatrinaKali

Not if you construct encounters around both tanks. Make a boss that hits very hard but only hits so often? Get a tank that does well for that (big HP pool) Have a boss that hits very fast and does medium dmg, get a tank that has really good mitigation. etc etc. Instead of crying for both classes to be exactly the same, you should instead be asking for encounters to bring out the abilities of both tanks separately. I know everyone wants to be the All-Star 100% of the time, but sometimes you gotta sit back and tank adds or w/e.

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You don't really understand math, do you? WAR doesn't have any real hp advantage. The 20% DR that a PLD gets acts as an effective 25% higher max hp because a WAR takes 25% more damage than a PLD does. The only way that a WAR has an advantage over a PLD is if there is boss damage that completely ignores all damage reduction, which would necessitate ignoring tank CDs as well. A boss would have to *ignore* what PLD gets in order to make what WAR has be useful.

The only hp advantage that WAR has is in *slightly* higher base hp, and I mean "slightly" as in "5 Vit". This hp advantage actually shrinks as you get better gear because the percent advantage lowers.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Math and things

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I think Satrina was trying to say that they should adjust content so that SOMEHOW a WAR takes an advantage situationally (like in 50% of all situations, haha).

I could be wrong but I think she was just throwing example mechanics, not intending those to be the solution. I think new content + a WAR fix could realistically make that happen.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

I think Satrina was trying to say that they should adjust content so that SOMEHOW a WAR takes an advantage situationally (like in 50% of all situations, haha).

I could be wrong but I think she was just throwing example mechanics, not intending those to be the solution. I think new content + a WAR fix could realistically make that happen.

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Actually what he's posting, and has been posting, is that current balance is fine and everyone is wrong.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

if you have the SCH Fey light on top of that, you can get to the next Wrath V in under twelve seconds.
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Theres no way in hell a scholar worth their salt will ever use feylight considering that means they're giving up whispering dawn and fey illumination which add up to "far" more healing.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

So, using the spreadsheet Tronic provided as well as your character, I can tell you're talking out of your ass. You've got 432 Skill Speed. That gives you a GCD of 2.41, which is *well* away from the 1.25 seconds that you're claiming to have.

Does your ass ever get tired of you never using your mouth to do the speaking?

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You forgot Fey Light. :P

And I currently have no SkSp on my body. I was testing other things soz.

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Originally Posted by Conna

Theres no way in hell a scholar worth their salt will ever use feylight considering that means they're giving up whispering dawn and fey illumination which add up to "far" more healing.

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O.o Holy Crap...

Oh wait... *phew* I thought you were serious... don't scare me like that please.

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Originally Posted by Faction

Actually what he's posting, and has been posting, is that current balance is fine and everyone is wrong.

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And that's exactly what Yoshi P is hinting at.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Sword Oath adds a *lot*

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Sounds like your twisting situations into PLD's favor by comparing a WAR tanking to a PLD DDing, PLD will almost never use Sword Oath over Shield Oath save in rare situations like Demon Wall or on trash mobs much like how WAR's shouldn't rely on Defiance save for a Infuriate/Inner Beast/Thrill of Battle Boost in DD situations and should quickly remove Defiance after. Additionally, WAR also has workarounds to help with Defiances damage penalty such as Maim's +20% damage boost which can be reapplied indefinately and Storms Eye reduced Slashing resistance which I realize will help PLDs as well, but the option helps you none the less.

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Originally Posted by Illya

I want to ask Yoshi what WAR is supposed to do for Titan HM then. I don't want to be PLD to tank.

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Try this:

I have several damage mitigation rotations - that always keeps me healthed up, giving the healer less work. I have tanked every dungeon boss this way, and it works great. I also have excellent gear, because I believe in not being a burden.

First, just before he ultimates, you should be using FORESITE. Maybe get your WHM to stoneskin you just ahead of it - you get a bit of warning - make sure thrill or beast or both are ready just after.

1) When the boss is auto attacking you, you should have bloodbath plus vengeance up (first thing). OR, Foresight, and after it's gone INTO bloodbath plus vengeance.
you are now using the heavy>sunder>block combo to ramp hate. DO NOT USE FLASH OR FEATHERFOOT during this. You need the vengeance hits TO HEAL YOURSELF and build hate.

2) After that cools down, you should use convalescence into second wind when you're down about 500 health or so. Try to use it BEFORE your whm is spamming cure.

3) Then use thrill of battle. (or convalescence thrill)

4) THEN use flash, and also featherfoot if you equip it. (I don't, just flash and provoke)

5) You are now using heavy>maim>storms path. This move heals you as much as cure. This combo should be used often - once the boss is 1/3, your hate is huge already. Don't worry about BB as much at this point. Throw a fracture in as well (Does BB damage). This is important > you should do this combo once every time maim/fracture wears off - and you should be doing heavy>maim>storms path to keep healing yourself during the phases of the fight.

6) Stun the boss when you can to cancel a big move, then, in the 5 seconds you have DO:

7) Berzerk, Inner Beast to heal for like 1000+. Infuriate immediately.

8) vengeance + bath is now back up. Rinse, repeat.

it goes without saying you're doing other things in the middle of this. Flash, provoke, maybe even a tomahawk when they run away to do a move or they do eminity ignoring random target moves. Things like that. Think on your feet.

Unchained + the heavy>Maim>storm>fracture combo is really good if you're doing well and don't need an inner beast.

Keep infuriate up whenever possible. If the boss is unstunnable, use Brutal Swing on the second swing animation of butcher's block when blood + vengance is up. It's off the GCD and you get all four hits, even if the animation doesn't show.

Use Mercy Stroke on adds by tabbing to them just before they die, hitting it, and tabbing back - MASSIVE health bonus there: and it works on stupid stuff like objects you have to kill (rocks, crystals, etc). Storm's Eye should be used ONCE before fracture when you have it. it's not nearly as useful as storm's path for single target tanking - because you get no bonus health from it - it's essentially a DOT like fracture. Do it once every fracture.

For an all around situation, I would choose Mantra over Awareness for your fifth ability. Be flexible with whatever you're fighting. Those two go back and fourth for me - if the mob seems to have high dex, I'll use Awareness to avoid getting crit-ultimated. - notice I don't use featherfoot or savage blade. You don't need additional hate tools except provoke (maybe!), and you don't need to dodge more, you already have tons of way to avoid hits - and in some cases you WANT them to try to hit you.

Remember that WAR tanks melee mobs or enemy party group bosses better then PLD. PLD tanks caster type mobs better then WAR. War AND Pld can do BOTH however, you just have to adjust your playstyle -> remember that war stun works on more things then PLD stun does, and it's off GCD.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You forgot Fey Light. :P

And I currently have no SkSp on my body. I was testing other things soz.




O.o Holy Crap...

Oh wait... *phew* I thought you were serious... don't scare me like that please.



And that's exactly what Yoshi P is hinting at.

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Actually then even yoshi p would be dead wrong A. fey light has 30 second up time. B. using fey illumination assuming only 2 healers are present would mean that they would give up 40% healing output increase. Whispering wind with fey illu and rouse is about a 300+ hps aoe hot which times 8 people is about 2400 hps. Explain in what reality a sch would even dream of using feylight over fey illumination. (oh ps I actually forgot to include the fact eos gets that healing buff so its actually 60%).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

You forgot Fey Light. :P

And I currently have no SkSp on my body. I was testing other things soz.




O.o Holy Crap...

Oh wait... *phew* I thought you were serious... don't scare me like that please.



And that's exactly what Yoshi P is hinting at.

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Yoshi P is bad at his own game, no different to you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conna

Actually then even yoshi p would be dead wrong .

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How can Yoshi P be wrong about his own Game...?

How can anyone even think that way?

The level of hubris is too high...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

How can Yoshi P be wrong about his own Game...?

How can anyone even think that way?

The level of hubris is too high...

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Your history with SE must not go back very far. SE also thought that in ffxi warrior made a good tank...this was false. They thought Ninja damage was really good...this was false. SE has been wrong quite a bit actually,and unfortunately it takes them some time to realize that they screw it and correct problems all the time.