Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

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WoW never had a great story

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WOTLK, Pandaria, Legion would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

WOTLK, Pandaria, Legion would like a word with you.

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WOTLK where Arthas was memes as a saturday morning cartoon villain, and most of it was just "dae wc3 tft?"

Pandaria was carried by the zone stories, the overarching story was mid

Legion was BC 2.0 with the same bullshit asspulls

Also note that not great != bad

WoWs story is serviceable and can be enjoyed, but i wouldnt call it a great story

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

WOTLK, Pandaria, Legion would like a word with you.

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Vel you and I both did loremaster (Though I did it before the cataclysm and you did it after) as such you and I saw more of the story than the average player. We are going to have a different view on the story as we saw far more of it.

I for one like that it's this way. Rolling alt after alt never resonated with me in other MMORPG's. I'm sure I'm not the only one too. It's a massive point of difference. FFXIV plays more like a single player RPG with MMO elements to it.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

Vel you and I both did loremaster (Though I did it before the cataclysm and you did it after) as such you and I saw more of the story than the average player. We are going to have a different view on the story as we saw far more of it.

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We agree on this.

In much the same way that Ive done a lot of the sidequests as well as all the MSQ. The story was there, Pandaria's was one of the darkest I had ever seen. The scenes with the Pandaren wife who allowed the ugliness and horror of war pervert her into a Sha-possessed demon was one I will never forget.

"Pandas are all about funny light hearted morons" etc was so far off the mark it got disgusting.

We came to Pandaria, what we left behind was sickness, death, misery, destruction. There WAS an enemy in Pandaria. US. We were the enemy.

....to quote a member of the Grey Council

"If there is a doom on this place it is because you brought it here"

As far as the novels and books are concerned, THAT is again ANOTHER Blizzard failure, if you cant, or wont put it into the game, it is idiocy to expect people to shell out more for a plethora of books with lore and content the devs were too f.ing lazy to put into the damned game. Dont get me started on the rancid mess that was WOD...FF 14 manages to put all its story into the game without asking the customer to pay more $$$$ to understand what the hell is going on...and why.

This is what I despised about WOW now, its all about short term content, the actual legacy of the game be damned.

Legion was brilliant...BFA by comparison was exchanging a plate of well cooked pasta for a five day old decaying, regurgitated, half digested fish.

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

Since I am a veteran MMO player, played them since 2001.
I hate this hand-holding that this game has.
Also, the number of hours you have to spend to play through the ALL msq is just insane.
I am the type of player who likes to have tons of alts and does not like the idea of having all classes on one character.
I like playing every class on different characters like in all other games out there.
It feels like SE is forcing me to pay story skip since it takes me more than 30 days to complete msq on single character. Mostly because I hate it, and I hate it because it is not voiced and there are too many fetch quests. The old republic has all quests voiced, maybe because the number of them is so much smaller than FFXIV.

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The hand holding is the only issue i see here.

MSQ is far too easy and the endgame suffers because of this. its like graduating kindergarden and being expected to clear your finals.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

WOTLK, Pandaria, Legion would like a word with you.

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is this a late april fools joke

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MSQ is far too easy and the endgame suffers because of this.

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Endgame is NOT just "raiding", it can be whatever it is you want it to be, so i find this obsession with your idea of endgame somewhat annoying. The MSQ is fine as is, as has been stated REPEATEDLY, it is meant to be doable by a range of competencies, as it is not meant to be a brick wall for people to smash their heads on.

My endgame doesnt consist of ANY "high end raiding", nor does it need to be...I have plenty to do as it is. In this I share a lot of players attitudes, so again, "endgame" does not "suffer" at all.

FF 14 is not 'raid do m plus or pvp and if not GTFO"

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its like graduating kindergarden and being expected to clear your finals.

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What "finals"? What, if like so many others, we choose NOT to worry about Savage , Ex or uiltimate or whatever....where does that leave this sweeping generalisation? Or is this yet another "whats your excuse for not raiding" meme?

Endgame in FF 14 covers a wide range of activities...so what exactly is your point here?

Incidentally, please dont make the mistake the other guy made in assuming I choose not to raid high end because I cant, I can any time I want..I simply choose not to. Its a valid attitude to have, I play as others do as suits ME. One player on my server is a fishing nut and he is having a blast...so again, that kinda invalidates your premise.

The same goes for others. They play as suits them, when if and how they choose.

Player choice..a major component in MODERN gaming.

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kindergarden

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Kindergarten - from the German. The term dates back to the 19th century. Friedrich Froebel (1782-1852) started the first kindergarten, Garden of Children, in 1840.

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The hand holding is the only issue i see here.

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I dont see an issue at all. We disagree.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

Their devs have acknowledged that there are players who don't really care about the story or prefer to experience it in their own way.
It makes no sense to continue to require the story and continue to edit it for the sake of people who don't care about the story.

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Thats them, thats not FFXIV.
Sounds like those stories are entirely self contained and separated from an overall Main Story. Which is fine. FFXIV even has some of these in their Raids, Dungeons, and many activities. However FFXIV has a story to tell, and its world changes WITH the story, which leads to content being unlocked, and some of those stories exist thanks to the progression from the MSQ.
If players dont care about the story, hey, you can skip it and go about your day. Either from buying a skip, or just Skip Cutscene.

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is this a late april fools joke

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I played all of every expac, had Loremaster. There is and was a huge story..simply because people rushed it, did the bare minimum to get to raiding.... isnt my concern.

Their loss. My gain.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

I played all of every expac, had Loremaster. There is and was a huge story..simply because people rushed it, did the bare minimum to get to raiding isnt my concern.

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It's almost like endgame content is actually what matters in WoW and not the story, crazy I know, literally a small minority cares about the story in wow, that's why everyone rushes to max level.

FFXIV on the other hand has a very strong toxic community of "story lovers" that will gladly spit on people buying skips and bully them (seen it both in game and on the forums as well). As I mentioned earlier, if the story was THAT popular in FFXIV, the boosts wouldnt exist.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It's almost like endgame content is actually what matters in WoW and not the story, crazy I know, literally a small minority cares about the story in wow, that's why everyone rushes to max level.

FFXIV on the other hand has a very strong toxic community of "story lovers" that will gladly spit on people buying skips and bully them (seen it both in game and on the forums as well). As I mentioned earlier, if the story was THAT popular in FFXIV, the boosts wouldnt exist.

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Well no...the skips are a means for people to level alts and not have to trek through the story.
And...I think the only people whod get Bullied for buying a Skip, are people like Quin who literally didnt understand or learn the game, just to get into endgame raiding, and looked stupid thinking it just functioned like WoW. Or basically people who didnt learn their jobs / Classes.

I've been alting through the MSQ and I must say that a lot of it is really indulgent. I think a lot of the set pieces worked in their time but the 'go here, talk to someone, go back to where you came from and talk to someone else' formula is by far the most played out thing they could offer. Even when I tried to psych myself up for the big midpoint turn in HW I just ended up skipping a whole lot of it because it insists on breaking its own ankles with its poor pacing. I understand that talking to people is important to drive a story, but they could have made it more fun at least.

Also, even when hammering the escape key constantly, it still takes quite a few hours to get thru the content. It's really something. And I don't think it would stand out so bad IF there were cool things to do from one quest to the next. The order of the day is one of 3 possibilities only: 1) just talk to the next guy in line. 2) Kill 3 mobs and return to me. 3) Gather 3 items, either from the land or from mobs, then come back to me. It's kind of crap, and as a long time player I would love to see them shake things up a little bit. There's GOTTA be something more you can ask players to do.

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Originally Posted by Ishe-P

I've been alting through the MSQ and I must say that a lot of it is really indulgent. I think a lot of the set pieces worked in their time but the 'go here, talk to someone, go back to where you came from and talk to someone else' formula is by far the most played out thing they could offer. Even when I tried to psych myself up for the big midpoint turn in HW I just ended up skipping a whole lot of it because it insists on breaking its own ankles with its poor pacing. I understand that talking to people is important to drive a story, but they could have made it more fun at least.

Also, even when hammering the escape key constantly, it still takes quite a few hours to get thru the content. It's really something. And I don't think it would stand out so bad IF there were cool things to do from one quest to the next. The order of the day is one of 3 possibilities only: 1) just talk to the next guy in line. 2) Kill 3 mobs and return to me. 3) Gather 3 items, either from the land or from mobs, then come back to me. It's kind of crap, and as a long time player I would love to see them shake things up a little bit. There's GOTTA be something more you can ask players to do.

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Its sadly not something thats really going to change.
Every MMO in existence does this.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Well no...the skips are a means for people to level alts and not have to trek through the story.
And...I think the only people whod get Bullied for buying a Skip, are people like Quin who literally didnt understand or learn the game, just to get into endgame raiding, and looked stupid thinking it just functioned like WoW. Or basically people who didnt learn their jobs / Classes.

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I have really high doubts that this many people are using alts in this game, obviously some do, like myself to have one character in one region and the other is a good example, but I am pretty convinced that people with alts are a minority, because there's not that much point to having them really, this amount of people wouldnt make MSQ boost top sale every week without fail

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It's almost like endgame content is actually what matters in WoW and not the story, crazy I know, literally a small minority cares about the story in wow, that's why everyone rushes to max level.

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And therein lies their biggest failure.

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FFXIV on the other hand has a very strong toxic community of "story lovers" that will gladly spit on people buying skips

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Never done that. I have tried to dissuade people, true, but if they want to skip thats their lookout, from my POV they wont know what they are doing or why. They can go ahead and buy a skip, but as I have said before, I have also spoken to many who did do just that...and regretted it later.

We all choose how we want to play. If asked I will give my opinion, if not, its their call. Personally, I think a new player getting a story skip is kinda a huge mistake..but Ive never bullied anyone.

Disagreed if asked, yes. If not, its their decision.

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and bully them (seen it both in game and on the forums as well). As I mentioned earlier, if the story was THAT popular in FFXIV, the boosts wouldnt exist.

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On your server, maybe, but you dont speak for the attitudes and actions of people elsewhere. I play on Elemental, the mindset there is a huge disparity with NA. I like it there. What you see on one server does not necessarily recur on servers you have never been to.

Never assume what you see is the norm everywhere.

it isnt.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

And therein lies their biggest failure.

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20 years and still biggest mmo

biggest failure btw

you are so detached from reality lol

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20 years and still biggest mmo biggest failure btw you are so detached from reality lol

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Shinkuno: I look at it this way, if you run past it all, do the bare minimum so you can rush to max level...then you kinda arent in any position to say there was no story. It was there..you simply chose to ignore it in your mad dash to get to "the shinies in all the newest raids"

To me its like buying a new mystery novel, flicking to the last few pages to see whodunit...then stating the book wasnt any good. Perhaps if you actually took the time to READ the entire book, you might think differently.

Seems kinda common sense to me.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shinkuno: I look at it this way, if you run past it all, do the bare minimum so you can rush to max level...then you kinda arent in any position to say there was no story. It was there..you simply chose to ignore it in your mad dash to get to "the shinies in all the newest raids"

To me its like buying a new mystery novel, flicking to the last few pages to see whodunit...then stating the book wasnt any good. Perhaps if you actually took the time to READ the entire book, you might think differently.

Seems kinda common sense to me.

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Huh? What are you talking about

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Shinkuno: I look at it this way, if you run past it all, do the bare minimum so you can rush to max level...then you kinda arent in any position to say there was no story. It was there..you simply chose to ignore it in your mad dash to get to "the shinies in all the newest raids"

To me its like buying a new mystery novel, flicking to the last few pages to see whodunit...then stating the book wasnt any good. Perhaps if you actually took the time to READ the entire book, you might think differently.

Seems kinda common sense to me.

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And yet WoW without the story still is above FFXIV population wise, so obviously its not a failure, FFXIV struggling to retain players due to no content however... is a failure.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its sadly not something thats really going to change.
Every MMO in existence does this.

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I somewhat agree, but also think that these objectives can be masked. Give me a tank to drive around in and blow up 3 mobs with. Allow me to play red-light green-light with some big badass elite mob when plucking seaweed or whatever from the Tempest Floor. Take more risks like that Unknown Soldier duty in Garlemald that made people mad because it was too hard. In the end, yes, you're still gathering or talking or whatever, but your character has more 'agency' in shaping the story and their place in it. Otherwise it's just reading the page of a book, waiting 5 minutes or so, then reading the next page, with no fluctuation or intrigue whatsoever, only being told that it's important that we continue. Other games do this stuff, they should borrow from them!

Preaching to the choir here. Too many people think a 300+ hour mediocre visual novel that's only gonna get longer is perfectly fine because a story focus scrubs it of all current and future problems.

Realistically speaking, nothing's gonna change or at the very least it won't until growth stagnates. SE created a problem and is selling the solution in the form of skips.

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And yet WoW without the story still is above FFXIV population wise

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It is? Um...WOW doesnt release active sub numbers and hasnt done so for some years...so you cant quantify that or prove it.

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, so obviously its not a failure, FFXIV struggling to retain players due to no content however... is a failure.

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..and you know this...how?

BTW dont use STEAM or Twitch either.

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Ah yes, dont use the things that are indicative of popluation for every other multiplayergame in existence... because uh... it would shatter VelKallors world

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STEAM doesnt measure, as has been noted, console players nor those who play via the native launcher, NOR can it measure how many players have TWO accounts, one on PC one on STEAM, and then lets not also discuss those with MULTIPLE licenses..so no, STEAM isnt any form of valid, usable metric.

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It might not show the entire numbers because the majority uses the SE edition, but it can still show a trend as to if its going up or down.

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Come back with actual numbers, using STEAM as a statistical control group, then we can talk. Until you have the full dataset, using STEAM in this fashion is akin to using this forum as a metric for player attitudes and preferences...which is, and would be, utterly ludicrous. You do also know that PS4 and 5 players use the PSN Network..so unless you have numbers for THOSE as well....nope, your sample group isnt large enough to be viable.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Its sadly not something thats really going to change.
Every MMO in existence does this.

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Other MMOs get around this problem by just not having the story be a mandatory part of the experience.

For example, as I am typing this, I'm leveling an alt in WoW purely by doing dungeons. Pretty sure I've only done half a dozen quests.

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Originally Posted by Restonance

Preaching to the choir here. Too many people think a 300+ hour mediocre visual novel that's only gonna get longer is perfectly fine because a story focus scrubs it of all current and future problems.

Realistically speaking, nothing's gonna change or at the very least it won't until growth stagnates. SE created a problem and is selling the solution in the form of skips.

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agreed 100%

also, people excusing this with "story focus" must have played nothing but ff14 in their life. Theres thousands of games with story focus that still provide engaging gameplay, and from the get go, not 100s of hours in

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

BTW dont use STEAM or Twitch either.

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Ah yes, dont use the things that are indicative of popluation for every other multiplayergame in existence... because uh... it would shatter VelKallors world

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

agreed 100%

also, people excusing this with "story focus" must have played nothing but ff14 in their life. Theres thousands of games with story focus that still provide engaging gameplay, and from the get go, not 100s of hours in

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FFX is a game from the FF franchise that keeps you entertained through the entire game, the story is amazing and keeps you hooked, its emotional and the entire story makes sense until the end. I played it so many times I cant even count it with my 2 hands, just because it's THAT good.

However FFXIV ? I will never go through without a skip, its way too long and its boring, just the basic fetch quest, go talk to X and come back, kill 3 bears and come back.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

It is? Um...WOW doesnt release active sub numbers and hasnt done so for some years...so you cant quantify that or prove it.



..and you know this...how?

BTW dont use STEAM or Twitch either.

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"Please dont use steam as evidence because it'll show what I dont want it to show".

You are way too deep in it, I actually feel bad for you.

It might not show the entire numbers because the majority uses the SE edition, but it can still show a trend as to if its going up or down.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Other MMOs get around this problem by just not having the story be a mandatory part of the experience.

For example, as I am typing this, I'm leveling an alt in WoW purely by doing dungeons. Pretty sure I've only done half a dozen quests.

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Those other MMOs are not story Focused as FFXIV is.
Im not talking down or bad on them, just stating they are very different Games from FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

also, people excusing this with "story focus" must have played nothing but ff14 in their life. Theres thousands of games with story focus that still provide engaging gameplay, and from the get go, not 100s of hours in

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Subjective.
But we are talking about MMOs here. Comparing FFXIV an MMO to FFX like Stormpeaks did is not really a good comparison. They are 2 completely different games.
1 is literally a singleplayer JRPG, the other is an MMO. Both are games, but not also function differently. Same thing if you were to bring in WoW, or Star Wars.
They are just different games.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

Ah yes, dont use the things that are indicative of popluation for every other multiplayergame in existence... because uh... it would shatter VelKallors world

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In case you didnt know...FFXIV is also played Via their own launcher, and on Consoles such as PS4 & PS5.
So unless Steamchats somehow factors in those players, no, Steam is not the main Metric to base FFXIVs playerbase on.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Those other MMOs are not story Focused as FFXIV is.
Im not talking down or bad on them, just stating they are very different Games from FFXIV.



Subjective.
But we are talking about MMOs here. Comparing FFXIV an MMO to FFX like Stormpeaks did is not really a good comparison. They are 2 completely different games.
1 is literally a singleplayer JRPG, the other is an MMO. Both are games, but not also function differently. Same thing if you were to bring in WoW, or Star Wars.
They are just different games.



In case you didnt know...FFXIV is also played Via their own launcher, and on Consoles such as PS4 & PS5.
So unless Steamchats somehow factors in those players, no, Steam is not the main Metric to base FFXIVs playerbase on.

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The point is story engagement, one story is engaging (FFX) and one is not (FFXIV)

Also yes, it is a good metric, its a sample of a certain percentage of the population, it gives a trend as to if a game is doing good or not.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

In case you didnt know...FFXIV is also played Via their own launcher, and on Consoles such as PS4 & PS5.
So unless Steamchats somehow factors in those players, no, Steam is not the main Metric to base FFXIVs playerbase on.

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In case you didnt know, the same applies to other games too. Path of Exile has standalone and steam. And youd be on huge copium to think if steam had a downward trend in players, somehow the other platforms are the polar opposite

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

The point is story engagement, one story is engaging (FFX) and one is not (FFXIV)

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Subjective.
I think Both are good, but hey, to each their own.

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Originally Posted by Shinkuno

In case you didnt know, the same applies to other games too. Path of Exile has standalone and steam. And youd be on huge copium to think if steam had a downward trend in players, somehow the other platforms are the polar opposite

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Not even my argument.
Im saying the Steamcharts dont factor in Players that Play Via the official Launcher, or on Consoles.
It would be more accurate if there was a way to factor in the whole playerbaase, instead of just 1 metric that on hits a Percentage. One that we cant say for sure hit X% of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Subjective.
I think Both are good, but hey, to each their own.



Not even my argument.
Im saying the Steamcharts dont factor in Players that Play Via the official Launcher, or on Consoles.
It would be more accurate if there was a way to factor in the whole playerbaase, instead of just 1 metric that on hits a Percentage. One that we cant say for sure hit X% of the playerbase.

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It
Still
Gives
A
Trend.

It's too easy to always say this stuff, knowing very well they dont share numbers, so you can keep coping saying "yeah x source is false because it doesnt include x", it's some next level coping. Obviously its not complete because they dont share those numbers, so all we can get is a sample, and it does give a downward trend, a pretty big one too.

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Originally Posted by Stormpeaks

It
Still
Gives
A
Trend.
It's too easy to always say this stuff, knowing very well they dont share numbers, so you can keep coping saying "yeah x source is false because it doesnt include x", it's some next level coping

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You ok?
Because I understand you just fine. No need to break it down as if I didnt understand how much weight you guys put on Steam.
And I never said Any Source was false. Please dont start making stuff up for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Kenarashi

This game is not an rpg if you tried a true rpg you wouldn't have said that. In rpg you can finish quest in couple of different ways. An example is solving Gecko power plant problem in Fallout 2. There are at least 4 ways to solve it. Proper rpg allows multiple quest resolution.

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I mean, sure options are fine..but to define a game as an RPG or not based on choices is rather silly. Railroading is a thing in RPGs…even grand-daddy Dungeons and Dragons has scenarios that lack choice by default (thank god for DMs allowing off the script play)

Heck, The two big JRPG games (Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy) started with stories that are firmly on their respective rails.

Ahh yes the thrilling gameplay of Flyff, Maple Story (didn't play the 2nd one) and FF XI. I will admit that I don't remember much of the 1st two game's stories as it's been a very long time. Yet neither had what I'd call exciting game play. People have been known to fall asleep during fights in XI cause you know auto attacking or hoping your spell finishes off the mob your fighting (and that it doesn't get interrupted) so you can go into rest mode for 10mins (or more) is so captivating.

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It's too easy to always say this stuff, knowing very well they dont share numbers, so you can keep coping saying "yeah x source is false because it doesnt include x", it's some next level coping. Obviously its not complete because they dont share those numbers, so all we can get is a sample, and it does give a downward trend, a pretty big one too

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No.

STEAM does not factor in the huge disparity between their numbers , those on native launchers as well as the PSN network. You do not have any data on other login systems, which must of force be included to make your entire dataset from which to draw a statistical analysis.

You are, as has been shown above, unable to provide said data, and you cannot at this time provide any form of correlation between those datasets to indicate any trend.

You also have no baseline data from which to draw a comparative analysis...i.i.e player numbers for the last three years, broken down by region etc. Youd also need the same for WOW....good luck with THAT.

To quote Helmuth of Boskone "Your report is neither complete nor conclusive".

It sounds like this isn’t the game for you then, which is fine, however coming into the forums to complain about it and expect changes is not.

FF has always been about the story, that isn’t going to change and it caters to their audience, which apparently you aren’t. Just move on if it isn’t for you. But asking for changes to the core game design isn’t going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Alts make a lot of sense to me. I have multiple characters with their own appearance and name, own set of glamour plates and personalised glamour collection that suits them.

It might not be what you play the game for, but enjoying multiple character designs is a big part of it for me, and this way I can switch on a whim and never have to spend money on Fantasias.

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As long as a player like you is fine with the time (or money) investment, more power to you.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

WOTLK, Pandaria, Legion would like a word with you.

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To me, WoW always had the potential for great story telling but I never really got the feeling they cared much about their lore. Like playing Cataclysm as a Alliance member was very a shame with most zones being either dull or painful parodies. Most of the big character moments they keep for novels and outside media, at least when I was playing. Now there is nothing wrong with having outside media helping to enhance the lore (I think FFXIV should do this actually. I would gladly read a novel or two explaining how the Ancients lived or what the Scions got up to during their years in the First) but it makes playing through quests feel rather hollow.

I do think Pandaria was the best in this regard, mostly because it wasn't a ‘take on old RTS Warcraft villain’ x3 plot and actually tried new things. I hear Legion was good, but have not played since Warlords so cannot really comment on stuff beyond that.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

No.

STEAM does not factor in the huge disparity between their numbers , those on native launchers as well as the PSN network. You do not have any data on other login systems, which must of force be included to make your entire dataset from which to draw a statistical analysis.

You are, as has been shown above, unable to provide said data, and you cannot at this time provide any form of correlation between those datasets to indicate any trend.

You also have no baseline data from which to draw a comparative analysis...i.i.e player numbers for the last three years, broken down by region etc. Youd also need the same for WOW....good luck with THAT.

To quote Helmuth of Boskone "Your report is neither complete nor conclusive".

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Do you think that the people who play on steam have significantly different taste and opinions when it comes to ff14 than those on consoles or on the standalone launcher?

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Do you think that the people who play on steam have significantly different taste and opinions when it comes to ff14 than those on consoles or on the standalone launcher?

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It's a coping mechanism for them, because they know there wont ever be any sort of number for subscriptions and how much the game retains players over patches and mini patches and expansions, so they keep saying "yeah you have incomplete data", because that way they can feel like they are right, even though it's proven otherwise via steam charts which gives a good sample, but they just wont accept that because it doesnt include consoles and standalone.

The player behind a console or a computer is still... a player, so as I have tried to tell them a million times, it's not exact numbers to the 0.01%, but it gives a good idea of the trend, if its upward or downward.