I don't have as many issues with the story in general, but I would also welcome more solo instances. It's a place they can really do unique things, like the puzzle instance in ShB.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?
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08-07-2022, 04:45 AMTaleraRistain
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08-07-2022, 05:03 AMAbsurdityQuote:
Originally Posted by Striker44
You could mix up the MSQ with other content...if the MSQ wouldn't regularly have important systems locked behind it. Sure I could do roulettes as a change of pace but as soon as I get a job to 90 I'm essentially gimping myself for not completing the MSQ to the point that it unlocks tomestone vendors or any of the max level content. The same already applies to level 50 and then every 10 levels after. -
08-07-2022, 06:44 AMDiaDeem
Who even is "everyone"?
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08-07-2022, 11:00 AMAmenaraThat's cool that you find combat related things to do after you complete the MSQ, but when you are a new player going through it for the first time for hundreds of hours and have little gameplay outside of dungeons then you have to see why the MSQ being combat light can be seen as an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
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08-07-2022, 01:11 PMVelKallor
FF 14 is a JRPG first and an MMO second.
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08-07-2022, 01:27 PMTheodricYet somehow seems to neglect key elements of both...Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
It's becoming closer to a glorified visual novel on many fronts and mysteriously I find that the very same posters who deny this will then swoop into any thread politely requesting more midcore or competitive content and declare that we don't need any. -
08-07-2022, 01:39 PMAmenaraI mean, I think the option for new players should let them start in 6.1 or w/e with a free story skip/level boost with the purchase of the new expansion in 7.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000
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08-07-2022, 01:42 PMTheodricNo, removing the MSQ's isn't necessary - and isn't what many of us would like to see happen. I do think the approach TESO takes would be beneficial moving forward, though. Where each new expansion is basically self contained, scales to the player character and can be explored in whatever order they so choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000
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08-07-2022, 02:01 PMTheodricNo worries! TESO = The Elder Scrolls Online.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000
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08-07-2022, 02:10 PMAmenaraIt effectively is, but still gives you the option to do the old MSQ content if you so desire. It also lets people who just want to hop into current content to play do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by UNDEAD10000
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08-07-2022, 02:38 PMVelKallor1. FF 14 isnt raid or die.Quote:
It also lets people who just want to hop into current content to play do so.
2. FF 14 isnt rush to endgame , the game starts at level 1
3. if thats what you want, WOW is ----> that way.
4. I know more than a few that DID rush to endgame..and they have regretted that mistake bitterly. One in particular was pressured HARD so he could tank for their "elite raid static"..the static fell apart..I ran into him on an OCE server months later and we talked....he is livid that he allowed his game experience to be wrecked in the "rush to endgame". So he is starting over on a new character and doing ALL the MSQ from the beginning..he also admitted he wished he had listened to me and pushed back.
Was overjoyed to see him again.
One of FF 14s major selling points and advantages is that there IS no rush to endgame, you play as much, or as little as you want, when you want. Its been a hugely successful model for years, so why would anyone in their right minds do a Blizzard and try to fix what ISNT broken?
"Many"? Id say close to all.Quote:
No, removing the MSQ's isn't necessary - and isn't what many of us would like to see happen
The MSQ will never be removed..not to mention the fact that doing so would be a massive insult to all the staff who worked their rears off to give us this content. One of WOWS most MASSIVE blunders was gutting the story to rush to endgame...so id rather not see us mimic a game whose developers have given new meaning to the words abject failure.
Ion and his "D" team have basically wrecked the entire franchise..do you REALLY want us to follow the footsteps of an MMO whose playerbase is literally walking out the door in an endless stream? Their focus on raiding alone has cost them massively, the "rush to endgame" mentality has succeeded in more or less driving out a vast swathe of their playerbase.
They got told again and again "leave we dont want you"...so they left.
What was it they said?
"If you dont raid, pvp or do m plus get out the game isnt for you"
and then months later.................
"HEY where is everyone, the game is empty Blizz please fix"
Thats like taking Lord of the Rings and just hand them the final chapters of Return of the King...they wont have a single idea what the hell is going on. The story elements of ALL the expacs are part and parcel of Endwalker..the idea itself is utterly ludicrous.Quote:
I mean, I think the option for new players should let them start in 6.1 or w/e with a free story skip/level boost with the purchase of the new expansion in 7.0.
Seriously, I ask you, when you buy a brand new book, do you then flip to the end and read the last few pages? Buy a mystery book and then flip to the end to see whodunit?
Who is "so many'? The miniscule percentage of negative nancies in this forum? You dont speak for anyone but yourself.Quote:
When so many seems to hate the main story of FFXIV, would it be lot better if the main story gets removed entirely in 7.0?
i am seeing no one that i know saying they hated the MSQ...and as the playerbase of FF 14 is in the miliions, you have no way of knowing what any of them want or like.
You dont.
I dont.
The difference is I claim to speak for no one but myself. -
08-07-2022, 02:47 PMCiliaThe issue with that is non-instanced content is... really shallow. Since the game sticks heavily to the tank / healer / DPS trinity, anything that isn't designed for party gameplay needs to be pretty simple... and fighting monsters in the overworld gets really boring, really fast, since it's just using the same combo over and over (with a self-heal mechanic if you really need it) until whatever it is you're fighting dies. Solo instances can break that up, but they too come down to the same shallow gameplay (dodge AoEs, kill adds, self-heal if necessary, beat main target until it stops moving). Roleplay mode helps, but mechanically speaking that's just forcing people to play a dumbed-down shell of another Job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amenara
I agree the number of cutscenes, particularly in Shadowbringers and even more so in Endwalker, can be a bit egregious, but if you find yourself bored with cutscenes just go do some dungeons or PvP. Dungeons teach you how to do your role and play your job (functionally, if not well) and PvP is a nice distraction that affords cool glamour options. Besides which, it's a modern Final Fantasy game; boatloads of cutscenes are par for the course and have been so since... the PSX era? Or did it really get egregious with X? Either way, you should know what you're signing up for. -
08-07-2022, 02:55 PMAmenaraI think that speaks to the quality of lower level gameplay more so than just blaming it on the trinity system. Jobs are incredibly shallow from 1-50 and it only gets worse each expansion as the level cap goes up and abilities are removed/added with the focus always being max level (Healer gameplay during MSQ is a whole other can of worms). When I think of Final Fantasy game I think about incredible cutscenes but at the same time the gameplay is fun and challenging. The problem is we are only getting one part of it, and it almost seems like the devs know gameplay while leveling isn't great so they keep focusing harder and harder on the story part and we lose out more and more on the gameplay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia
I'm not saying it is mandatory at all. The story is still there for those who want to play through it. Hell put a notice that you will be missing context of the story if you skip it and also point them to the NG+ feature if they want to go back and see it all later. The point I am making is that it would be nice to have the option for new players who just want to do endgame things with friends or just want to play all the new stuff to have that option instead of forcing them into hundreds of hours of story that may burn them out and make them want to quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
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08-07-2022, 03:08 PMVelKallor..who will then realise that this isnt WOW and now they have missed out on a lot. BTW new game plus again doesnt include all content or instances. Not by a long shot.Quote:
The point I am making is that it would be nice to have the option for new players who just want to do endgame things with friends or just want to play all the new stuff to have that option instead of forcing them into hundreds of hours of story that may burn them out and make them want to quit.
BTW after they buy the skip...they will be asking "why are we fighting this guy? Who is he? Who is Hydaelyn? Why are we fighting her?. Who is Zenos? Who is Fandaniel? They wont have the slightest idea what the hell they are doing there , will be in there for 'shinies"...whose appeal will be shortlived after they realise that the questions they are asking?
Is in the story they bypassed.
FF 14 is not rush to max level and IMO should never be..incidentally, I was just given another reason why thats a bad idea.
A new player that has not done the story, or any previous instances , hasnt even TRIED the class they skipped on, will have ZERO idea on how to play their class at max level.
Isnt that something this forum has been CONTINUALLY whining about? That people cant play "optimally'?
True or false.
A brand new player that has skipped to max level wont have the slightest idea on how to play the class, how to use combos, what the spells even mean...and then they want to take said player into Aglaia? They will be bewildered by all the skills and abilities, wot be able to meld or repair their own gear, wont know what the right stats are, wont know how to craft or how to repair using dark matter, will have zero idea how to cope in a level 90 instance...hell they wont even know what a positional is.
Thats a good idea?
Ask Quin69..LMAO....:D:D -
08-07-2022, 03:28 PMAmenaraThe story doesn't do anything to teach you how to play your class. Even better with all of the MSQ dungeons being able to be soloed it will be that much easier to make it to level cap without having a clue on how to play your job as the game carries you to the end. As for not understanding anything for the story, every cutscene is skippable, if you don't care about doing the story there is nothing stopping you now from still not caring about the story and skipping everything. The idea I am saying is just skipping those two steps and letting people hop into more current content if they so choose to, with that explicit warning that you will miss out on the story and you should take time to learn the job akin to how the job boosts now tell you that you should learn to play the job. NG+ will give you more than enough to understand what is happening in the story if you choose to go back and do it after a skip.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
I don't want the skip to be mandatory, I just would like new players to have an option to hop into the "Newfound Adventure" to catch up in 7.0 if they so choose to. -
08-07-2022, 03:40 PMRulakir
The ARR experience is abysmal as a whole. It's easily the worst starting experience I've had in any MMO and I'm amazed they manage any player retention. I had quit FFXIV the first time playing it at launch and the second time I had to brute force my way through it, I was ready to tap out at Titan. It also took me a month to get through because I'd rather do just about anything but the ARR MSQ and most of the jobs sub-50 aren't fun to play. It's a huge time sink with little reward other than knowing eventually it gets better. (Disclaimer: My subjective opinion. :P)
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08-07-2022, 04:11 PMTheodric
Given that World of Warcraft had an impressive total of ten million active players back in the days of its second expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, I think that plays into the 'healthy balance' I mentioned earlier.
The game going off the deep end later on in its life cycle does not negate the fact that it managed to please a lot of players with content that wasn't painstakingly hard but also not so mind numbingly easy that it risked putting some of us to sleep.
I'd definitely appreciate more opportunities to explore and engage with the overworld instead of having most of my chances at combat being hidden away in instances.
I also don't really raid much in this game at a higher level, simply because nothing in this game has managed to quite hit the same level of 'awe inspiring' as the likes of Abelshrud in Lost Ark or Black Temple/Karazhan/Sunwell Plateau in World of Warcraft. So having most of the content I partake in be so...simple is a bit boring, really. -
08-07-2022, 04:17 PMJojoyaIt's not going to be removed but SE is also working on a way for new characters to start with newer content (without buying a skip) instead of having to start all the way back at ARR.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
They have been listening to the feedback left by many that it's hard to convince friends to give the game a try when there's about 300 hours of story content to complete before they're caught up. NG+ (or creating a new character) will be there for those who decide they want to see the 2.0-6.0 story.
I imagine new characters will eventually have multiple starting points to choose from, with their character's initial level appropriate to their starting point. Hopefully Hall of the Novice gets reworked so the truly new players get some additional training about group content before they're dumped into a point in the MSQ that players are generally expected to know what they're doing.
Or perhaps SE creates an abbreviate starting experience with accelerated leveling to teach all that. Get to 90 in about the same amount of time (or less) that it takes to get through the level 1-24 MSQ. That's still a fair amount of time to learn "adventuring basics" without being an overwhelming amount to catch up to friends. -
08-07-2022, 05:33 PMVelKallorNeither does boosting a brand new player to 90 with no experience of the class they are playing. Your point is?Quote:
The story doesn't do anything to teach you how to play your class.
Um no....I hate to be the one to tell you this but anything after 70 cant be soloed. Mechanics require at least two.Quote:
Even better with all of the MSQ dungeons being able to be soloed it will be that much easier to make it to level cap without having a clue on how to play your job as the game carries you to the end
Try to solo Malikahs Well? Good LUCK with that.
NG plus doesnt cover all content. Try Omega for example....Rabanastre? Wanna do Bozja? Cant until you do Ivalice, and Ivalice isnt in NG plus. Neither is Werlyt.Quote:
. As for not understanding anything for the story, every cutscene is skippable, if you don't care about doing the story there is nothing stopping you now from still not caring about the story and skipping everything. The idea I am saying is just skipping those two steps and letting people hop into more current content if they so choose to, with that explicit warning that you will miss out on the story and you should take time to learn the job akin to how the job boosts now tell you that you should learn to play the job. NG+ will give you more than enough to understand what is happening in the story if you choose to go back and do it after a skip.
The issue with being able to play their class even at a basic level remains.Quote:
I don't want the skip to be mandatory, I just would like new players to have an option to hop into the "Newfound Adventure" to catch up in 7.0 if they so choose to.
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08-07-2022, 05:46 PMAmenaraMy point is that if the MSQ doesn't teach you how to play your class, why does it matter if someone is allowed to skip it if they want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
Hard to tell if you are trolling here or not. Trusts exist. Trusts will soon exist for every MSQ dungeon to level cap. I imagine trials will follow soon after.Quote:
Um no....I hate to be the one to tell you this but anything after 70 cant be soloed. Mechanics require at least two.
Try to solo Malikahs Well? Good LUCK with that.
Side content requires you to go outside of the MSQ to do it? That is how it currently is as well with the exception of the Crystal Tower alliance raid.Quote:
NG plus doesnt cover all content. Try Omega for example....Rabanastre? Wanna do Bozja? Cant until you do Ivalice, and Ivalice isnt in NG plus. Neither is Werlyt.
And that is an issue that Jojoya talked about with having specialized areas to teach you how to play your job when you boost it or just in general when you are playing a job.Quote:
The issue with being able to play their class even at a basic level remains.
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08-07-2022, 06:20 PMVelKallorBy solo I mean ALONE. No trusts. Just you. Cant be done....well not yet. Maybe later with new tiers of gear it will be soloable..but we are talking 2 expacs from now.Quote:
Hard to tell if you are trolling here or not. Trusts exist. Trusts will soon exist for every MSQ dungeon to level cap. I imagine trials will follow soon after.
Agreed. I honestly dont know what the solution is...Quote:
And that is an issue that Jojoya talked about with having specialized areas to teach you how to play your job when you boost it or just in general when you are playing a job.
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08-07-2022, 06:22 PMVelKallorARR was the redo after the disaster that was 1.0. I am not surprised, tbh. it has evolved a lot since then.Quote:
The ARR experience is abysmal as a whole. It's easily the worst starting experience I've had in any MMO and I'm amazed they manage any player retention.
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08-08-2022, 01:03 AMRaoabolicCertain classes definitely can. Personally, I solo Mt. Glug on my war just to knock out my Wonderous Tales, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
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08-08-2022, 01:16 AMSeseraPeople skipping msq are also skipping dungeons that would have taught them the mechanic they failed wasting other people time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amenara
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08-08-2022, 03:26 AMAbsurdityDepends on whether we're talking about synced or unsynced. Because unsynced you absolutely can, I just wasted 18 minutes for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
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08-08-2022, 04:21 AMZedxKaynPaglth'an has literally been soloed not long after it droppedQuote:
Originally Posted by VelKallor
And honestly that's why I will echo that ESO's approach to the story and multiplayer content would be good for the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesera
Stories are exclusively solo, dungeons are not involved in the main stories and instead each have a side quest that story enjoyers can do while running the dungeon if they want to. People who want to run dungeons for the gear oe multiplayer aspect aren't forced to do the main story or the side quest. Everybody wins. -
08-08-2022, 04:31 AMAbsurdityConsidering warrior can solo just about any EW dungeon I'm not exactly surprised. Nascent Flash in ShB was arguably just as powerful as Bloodwhetting, it just required ever so slightly more thought to maximize your self-healing. The hardest part is not being able to queue into max level dungeons solo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
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08-08-2022, 08:51 AMJojoya#1 and #3 aren't RPG specific. Those are concerns with any MMO and many other game genres. You even go on to only mention MMO in the rest of the post without any additional mention to RPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASkellington
The concept of the Holy Trinity would be an RPG element though your problem seems to be more with how the roles end up utilized, which is more part of #3 plus encounter design than being related to role play.
When it comes to things that test tanks and healers, they do exist. Does the tank learn the correct times to mitigate and which mitigation to use? Can the healer keep players alive when someone screws up starting a domino effect of unnecessary damage? It can be easy to say those things should be obvious when you're both skilled and experienced at the role but those who aren't will be tested.
Honestly I don't feel like any MMO has had the classes/jobs within a role feel significantly different short of the few games that toss huge skill trees at players and tell them to pick what they want with a limited on how much can be chosen through a point system. And quite frankly, that's the fault of players. They demand DPS?HPS balance so all jobs end up viable and create meta comps to come up with what they think will be best performance. If players truly want unique jobs, then they need to stop creating metas and stop demanding balance. That will leave developers free to stretch their imagination creating truly unique abilities.
And yeah, I can tell you that I found playing all the way through MSQ as CNJ/WHM has been enjoyable. I've done it on multiple characters (I usually alternate between healer/tank when I create a new character for replaying MSQ). It gets fun when I end up matched to a group of sprouts who are still learning the game and i have to really focus on the healing to keep them alive.
But that's me and what I enjoy. I'm not going to claim that someone is wrong for not enjoying it. Everyone has their own personal preferences.
I get that players interested in high end content are disappointed with the healer experience when they are playing with a good group of players. Not everyone is playing for a high end experience, though. It's less the job that needs to be changed and more the encounter design. If tanks are given good self-healing and enough mitigation tools that they require little healer, then more party wide damage is needed to give healers something to do other than green DPS. Arguing healers should be given more DPS tools doesn't do anything to make actual healing more engaging. If you're just going to give healers more DPS tools, might as well remove the healing role completely.
Did you do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedxKayn
Did anyone you personally know do it?
Trying to use an outlier as justification for changing things will lead to problems when the vast majority of the player base is not capable of duplicating the feat. -
08-08-2022, 10:27 AMLittleChickenNugget
I know I'm obnoxious on these forums but Vel really takes the cake.
I don't like the MSQ. I've skipped it since the days of ARR. I don't have questions about who is who, why who is doing this, where we are, etc. Why? Because frankly, I don't care. I don't play XIV for the story. I come in to run dungeons, raids, trials, and roleplay. I come in to do player-involved content. Not participate in a visual novel. For those who love the story, I'm happy for y'all. But really, you're riding on a miniature pony so I don't get where you think the high horse comes from. -
08-08-2022, 10:48 AMASkellingtonShould I? I don't really care about the RPG part of an MMO outside of story and raid/dungeon content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
My original post you even responded to said as much. (the first one for clarification) I was explaining why just because FFXIV is story based does not mean people cannot critize its MMO parts. Which I then go on to explain in my second post. I think we're looking at different things because if you want to know my thoughts on the RPG aspect of FFXIV which I personally link with story and nothing else... combat. Combat sucks.
Edit: What exactly do you define as RPG elements? I forgot to ask. Its different for everyone.
Mmm... there's more to that in an MMO. Mitigations have different lengths and long cool downs and higher defensive numbers. Just timing mitigation doesn't really test tanks when they get better at their job (higher end game play) which you've mentioned. Same with healing. FFXIV doesn't do this. They can get by without doing it if they come up with another system but there isn't one. For example, we have raids that have 2 tanks. They all have mitigations they can use for tankbusters. One form of a combat change to make things more interesting is having tank swaps so the second tank can use their mitigations because the first tank's are still on CD. Things like that is what I feel FFXIV is lacking.Quote:
When it comes to things that test tanks and healers, they do exist. Does the tank learn the correct times to mitigate and which mitigation to use? Can the healer keep players alive when someone screws up starting a domino effect of unnecessary damage? It can be easy to say those things should be obvious when you're both skilled and experienced at the role but those who aren't will be tested.
And... no to here too. Regen healers in other MMOs are punished for using their burst healing because it takes too much mana. Think using Cure 3 vs Medica 2/Regen. Again FFXIV doesn't do this. AST/WHM does play the same sub 50. They have 1:1 skills that are pretty much the same thing outside of potency and/or mana differences (Benefic 1/2 vs Cure 1/2 for example). AST could be regen based like the above and have a completely different healing style and DOES at higher levels of play with delayed healing (Macrocosmos and Earthly Star). SE should be further expanding upon that at the lower levels.Quote:
Honestly I don't feel like any MMO has had the classes/jobs within a role feel significantly different short of the few games that toss huge skill trees at players and tell them to pick what they want with a limited on how much can be chosen through a point system. And quite frankly, that's the fault of players. They demand DPS?HPS balance so all jobs end up viable and create meta comps to come up with what they think will be best performance. If players truly want unique jobs, then they need to stop creating metas and stop demanding balance. That will leave developers free to stretch their imagination creating truly unique abilities.
I believe you missed this part of my post which is fair, its wordy:Quote:
And yeah, I can tell you that I found playing all the way through MSQ as CNJ/WHM has been enjoyable. I've done it on multiple characters (I usually alternate between healer/tank when I create a new character for replaying MSQ). It gets fun when I end up matched to a group of sprouts who are still learning the game and i have to really focus on the healing to keep them alive.
And yeah that's going to be a sticking point of mine. Having 2 damaging abilities (excluding ones that also heal for 80+ levels) is dumb design. I don't care if we're healers. Other MMOs allow us to have 2-5 more dps buttons. We can have that here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASkellington
Not everyone may be playing for high end experience and that is fine. But the high end content that DOES exist should be harder than what it is. And that is a failing on SE's part whether they like it or not. There isn't anything for good healers because they refuse to up more damage and prune unnecessary heals from our kits because "healers should heal". Yeah we should heal, so make us heal. They keep saying they'll up the damage but they never give it. If content design is not going to change then class design should.Quote:
I get that players interested in high end content are disappointed with the healer experience when they are playing with a good group of players. Not everyone is playing for a high end experience, though. It's less the job that needs to be changed and more the encounter design. If tanks are given good self-healing and enough mitigation tools that they require little healer, then more party wide damage is needed to give healers something to do other than green DPS. Arguing healers should be given more DPS tools doesn't do anything to make actual healing more engaging. If you're just going to give healers more DPS tools, might as well remove the healing role completely.
And this has been addressed several times. Just more damage isn't going to help. There DOES need to be more damage for healers to heal, but we also have too many healing tools. Some of our abilities can be removed and replaced with DPS.
Good healers are always going to have down time. How long said down time is is dependent on how good they are, the content they're healing and their party. There is no reason our down time can't be filled with more than a DoT and a Malefic/Glare/Broil/Dosis. We can have 2 more dps buttons. We can have more buffs to support the party.
*sigh* But its not just a healer issue. Healer is just the one I can talk at length why SE has failed from the ground up. MCH has issues. DRK still has issues. Many other jobs also have issues and problems with design SE has made.
MSQ content being easy is fine, but when your hard content isn't much harder from a veteran's view, (to quote Meteion) "what is even the point?"
I'm holding out Criterion dungeons give what I'm looking for. I'm still upset that it has taken them this long to make such content and I am going to be critical of it even if my expectations aren't that high. FFXIV is an MMO to me first anything else second. I came here for an MMO; I'll grade it as an MMO.
Is that fair to FFXIV? Probably not. Its my opinion nonetheless.
As I've said, there are plenty of things I still enjoy about FFXIV. Story for an MMO is pretty good. I like the world. I don't care its not as open as some would prefer.
Call backs to other FF titles while... grating in some parts is pretty cool in others. PvP has never been my cup of tea but I don't mind it here before and after the rework.
But I am a healer main. And healing in this game is not fun for me. At any level of play. That is the metric I am going to grade any MMO on the most heavily.
Sad thing is... there's no where for me to go... yet... hopefully. -
08-08-2022, 10:59 AMZedxKaynI don't see how that's relevant, their statement was that it was not possible to solo things unless massively overgearing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Which is plainly wrong, "outlier" or not.
I also have no doubts whatsoever that I or half of the people I play with could do it, if we felt like wasting time figuring out how to approach it and actually doing it. Not much of a gotcha when you know how to tank... -
08-08-2022, 11:02 AMAmenaraForgetting that a lot of story dungeons can be done with trusts, soon to be all, and you can just have the NPCs carry you through them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sesera
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08-08-2022, 12:10 PMRansuMaybe you should try actually doing content instead of idling in Limsa? There's plenty of stuff to do in the game once you're done with the MSQ and the MSQ itself mixes dungeons in throughout the story, so its not like there isn't content during the MSQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
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08-08-2022, 12:31 PMTheodricI don't spend my time idling in Limsa, actually. Though certainly, such comments prove my point as to what the game is well known for!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ransu
As you can see my checking my character profile on the lodestone, I've accomplished most of what I set out to do. I could pursue another lengthy grind for the sake of it but I have more interesting things to do with my free time than that. Especially given the lack of an equivalent to Eureka or Bozja that involves a lengthy grind but brings the community together into one big, chaotic zone.
I think it's strange, too, when people try to insinuate that players shouldn't ask for more things to do if they run out of stuff that interests them. I don't find savage or ultimate raiding in this game to be particularly engaging - since none of the encounters are treated as canon content and they're more like glorified trails than actual raids.
I do a lot of PvP though! -
08-08-2022, 12:54 PMTaleraRistainThe problem with that design in ESO and most other MMOs before and after it are that there's no inter-connected story so it's very easy for the world to feel disjointed. One story can't reference events from another, because they can't guarantee that you did that part yet. It's like when XIV doesn't make things part of the MSQ so it can't comment on events in the MSQ unless it's special dialogue, but they've stopped doing that as much. It also contributes to the idea that elsewhere in the world doesn't exist and isn't important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
In regards to another comment about XIV being a glorified visual novel, I have to ask what you think is missing?
When playing a JRPG, you go somewhere and talk to an NPC to get some information on opening a temple and that NPC sends you on a quest to go get the Golden MacGuffin from a dungeon before they will tell you what you need to know. So you go through the dungeon and have eleventy million random battles and then a boss fight and you get the Golden MacGuffin then you go back to the NPC. And that NPC says go talk to this other NPC but oh that's on the other side of the world so you'll have to go through the tunnel and its eleventy million random battles and maybe a boss fight and then through the forest and eleventy million random battles and then you go do a fetch quest so you can use a canoe to get across the lake with its eleventy million random battles to the place where the other NPC is. Then they give you half the information and say another NPC in the original town has the rest. So you go all the way back to the original town across the lake and its eleventy million random battles, through the forest and its eleventy million random battles, through the tunnel and its eleventy million random battles and maybe a new boss and then you get to the new NPC who says they'll tell you how to open the temple but you have to go find them materials to bake a cake first oh and you'll also need the Golden MacGuffin or the temple guardians will destroy you.
But when you strip out the eleventy million random battles and grinding for levels, any JPRG is just a succession of cutscenes, fetch quests, and go here and there and back again. And that's exactly the same as what we do in XIV. If anything, XIV streamlines the process because you don't have eleventy million random battles and you don't have to grind for levels to continue the story. But all the other elements are general issue JRPG elements. -
08-08-2022, 12:55 PMaveyond-dreams
6.X has me quite concerned with the lack of longer lived content. We shouldn’t have to wait this long for things like Deep Dungeon to become available or Bozja-like zones. Having to wait until the expansion is halfway through for these things should never have been normalized.
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08-08-2022, 01:02 PMForteNightshadeThis is entirely missing the point it shouldn't be possible regardless of skill level. The fact Paglth'an could be solo'd on release by anyone speaks to how horrendously undertuned the dungeon was. Likewise, both Zodiark and Hydaelyn were killed without healers on release. This highlights how comically low their damage output was that an entire role can be omitted from an EX trial. Hence why both have been criticised as being extremely easy. If the healer isn't even necessary in a good group, even an average group won't struggle with healers. Those healers will simply being casting Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
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08-08-2022, 01:10 PMSnowdoveQuote:
Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE
The problem isn't the story. The problem is that the story-to-gameplay ratio is wildly out of balance. 20 minutes of cutscenes to 10 seconds of pew pew isn't fun. -
08-08-2022, 01:17 PMTaleraRistainBut it isn't like we're not getting anything at all. We haven't heard anything about an adventure zone so no one knows if that experiment is even returning or not. We are getting Criterion dungeons. And we have the normal combat related content that is always included, like 8 and 24 mans. These more experimental pieces of content don't always follow a set schedule. And we are getting non-combat experimental content like Island Sanctuary.Quote:
Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams
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08-08-2022, 01:55 PMRansuThen its time to play something else. End of the day the problem here is you, not the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric