Tale of Emet [FF14 x Nier Reincarnation event story]

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Originally Posted by Iscah

To be fair, the ancients being extinct has little to do with their relative intelligence levels.

Though modern humans are intelligent enough, so what would "fourteen times as intelligent" even look like?

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If we take the statement to be true, then it looks like 'not recognizing a trap, while you're standing in the middle of the trap, with a blueprint of said trap'.

(the notion of giving Emet full credit for Elidibus' demise is ridiculous, when the 'killing' blow was THAT one.)

And yeah, the whole plan of the Future Ironworks is... also, mostly full credit to them. Sure, with the rift traversal they had Omega as real technology to work off of, but for time travel they only really had theory; not only did Alexander not leave anything physical to work off of, but Alexander was a primal who as such did not have to adhere to scientific laws. What the Future Ironworks did was essentially the equivalent of reverse-engineering Vishnu based only on the tales in Hindu myth.

Remember that the Enigma Codex was lost, so even if that did have useful information they couldn't refer to it. Which... actually, now that I think about it, might mean that sundered people figured out time travel twice before the Ascians got there once.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

If we take the statement to be true, then it looks like 'not recognizing a trap, while you're standing in the middle of the trap, with a blueprint of said trap'.

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We can't really judge... well, Themis's capabilities based on the frayed remnant of his mind, primalised and left to unravel for 12,000 years.

Still, I think there has to be a point where being theoretically smarter doesn't look detectably different. The analogy that's coming to mind is screen resolution or image quality – the difference between low res and average and reasonably high res is sharp, but from "super high res" to "super-duper mindbogglingly high res" is not really as much of a practical difference.

My point around the Amaurotians is that it's hard to credit a single nation as being responsible for all of humanity's innovations when they don't exist anymore, which effectively prevents them from taking credit for future innovations. It's more an observation that the debate itself is moot, rather than being a commentary on whether Horde or Alliance is smarter.

The whole "don't consider you alive" stuff is Emet lying to himself. It's a coping mechanism. You head down to the nice little city he made and the inhabitants aren't saying "hey, that's a stupid looking ant" or whatever. They call you a child. They clearly see you aren't wearing robes and you being short is hardly a factor when some of you are too furry or scaly or are the size of a shaved border collie.

The name of that defense mechanism is rationalization. What of it?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

From there, it was Cid who had to develop a theory of time travel based on Alexander, with Omega tech being brought in later to allow safe traversal of the rift

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The thing is, is that Cid and Nero both were given their education by Garleans who were educated by Emet-selch in the ways of Magitek. And every advancement in those fields was done by reverse engineering Allagan technology, which was created by Emet-selch.

The seedbed that Cid flourished in was laid by Emet-selch.

And in the end, they built the Tycoon, which is a blow for blow match-up of Alexander Prime. It's less theory and more recreation. The real achievement is the blending of it with two other technologies. However, Allagan technology is based off of Omega's technology, but we have no exact road map of who did that.

Anyway, not trying to kill 8UC's achievement, but it's literally not possible without Cid whose level of technical expertise is impossible without Solus yae Galvus introducing Magitek to the Garleans.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The thing is, is that Cid and Nero both were given their education by Garleans who were educated by Emet-selch in the ways of Magitek. And every advancement in those fields was done by reverse engineering Allagan technology, which was created by Emet-selch.

The seedbed that Cid flourished in was laid by Emet-selch.

And in the end, they built the Tycoon, which is a blow for blow match-up of Alexander Prime. It's less theory and more recreation. The real achievement is the blending of it with two other technologies. However, Allagan technology is based off of Omega's technology, but we have no exact road map of who did that.

Anyway, not trying to kill 8UC's achievement, but it's literally not possible without Cid whose level of technical expertise is impossible without Solus yae Galvus introducing Magitek to the Garleans.

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The gap between Magitek and time travel however (and I would argue Crystal Tower Tycoon and Alexander as well) is large. Emet notes that as well, which is why he kidnaps Graha.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

The gap between Magitek and time travel however (and I would argue Crystal Tower Tycoon and Alexander as well) is large. Emet notes that as well, which is why he kidnaps Graha.

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Yeah, the impact on Cid on the time travel functionality is honestly much less about Cid and the Ironworks being technically knowledgeable, and much more about the fact that Cid and the Ironworks saw and wrote down details of a time machine. A time machine that, I should reiterate, did not have to make actual scientific sense, so it's questionable how well the Ironworks' notes actually described its mechanisms.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

A time machine that, I should reiterate, did not have to make actual scientific sense, so it's questionable how well the Ironworks' notes actually described its mechanisms.

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I'm not so sure about that - because Alexander was summoned by the Illuminati, who seem to value scientific knowledge and technology above everything else, thier belief that Alexander should follow scientifc principles, even if nobody currently understands them, means that he does.

Sort of using the power of primal summoning to leapfrog ahead in technology.

This sounds vaguely like that design principle where the Space Shuttle booster rocket design was influenced by a series of associated stepwise design constraints back to the dimensions of the Roman War chariot. That doesn't mean that the Ancient Romans were somehow responsible for or essential to the creation of the Space Shuttle.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

I'm not so sure about that - because Alexander was summoned by the Illuminati, who seem to value scientific knowledge and technology above everything else, thier belief that Alexander should follow scientifc principles, even if nobody currently understands them, means that he does.

Sort of using the power of primal summoning to leapfrog ahead in technology.

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That's likely accurate, but you'd still have some unconscious shortcuts going, and presumptions taken as fact. Like, we in the real world have theories as to how a time machine could work, but that doesn't mean those theories are necessarily true; if we had access to primals, the crowd that are sure that the TARDIS was logically sound could summon one that would work even if the world actually ran by Terminator rules, but that wouldn't mean that actually building a TARDIS would work.

Alexander helped in answering one half of the equation; to make a time machine you need to know how time travel works and how to make a machine that can do it, and Alexander demonstrated the former. Making the technology is still really hard, and the Illuminati didn't actually prove anything about it.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. (Squints hard at the YouTube).

So. Where does that leave the theory that at the moment right after the sundering - we are left with 14 identical planets, with identical copies of “powered down” ancients?

For example, do we still think that “Pre-Sundering Azem” gets split into 14 identical but also much less powerful Azems? As would all Ancients?

Does this video put forward that these identical copies were all left so discombobulated that they were bereft of language and coherent thought? (Or is it just metaphorical?)

For me, this is important to the story, because it involves our Azem. In the post-sundering, were each of the 14 sundered Azems simply left just underpowered and a little confused - or were they basically brain-wiped and left to fend/die/wander off a cliff? Big difference there.

I still find the Sundering a bit suspish. This video is helping a little…

One big issue I still have, is that if the 14 reflections were all perfect copies, then there would be books and records. If the sundered ancients were a little foggy on the details of the pre-sundered world, they could just pick up a newspaper from that previous morning (so to speak).

But if this video is implying that the Sundering robbed the Ancients of their language - and the abilities to read and write… that’s pretty horrible, but does explain why the Ancients in each reflection didn’t just attempt to pick things back up from right before the Sundering.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

One big issue I still have, is that if the 14 reflections were all perfect copies, then there would be books and records. If the sundered ancients were a little foggy on the details of the pre-sundered world, they could just pick up a newspaper from that previous morning (so to speak).

But if this video is implying that the Sundering robbed the Ancients of their language - and the abilities to read and write… that’s pretty horrible, but does explain why the Ancients in each reflection didn’t just attempt to pick things back up from right before the Sundering.

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First of all, like has been said multiple times, remember that this is Emet-Selch's perspective of it all: people who know NieR Reincarnation better than us have confirmed that's how the storytelling is normally, and it checks out pretty much one-to-one with Emet's framing and use of language ('malformed' is wording that he, and only he, uses when referring to sundered people). It's not actually providing new information, it's just dressing up and compressing the story he's told us.

It's hard to read anything much into the language part; it could be an objective truth and making sort of a Tower of Babel story... or it could just be, as pointed out before, Emet looking at everyone screaming in wordless pain and confuusion and going 'welp, I guess they can't talk anymore'. You're not wrong that them losing that language would arguably see them abandon that continuity of civilization (again, Tower of Babel), but remember that the fact the rest of the Scions can understand the Ancients is an actual scene beat.

What might be worth remembering, though, is just how the Ancients recorded information. We know from Akadaemia that they weren't above written notes, but most recording and communication we see actually seems to be through various forms of crystal--seen in the Watcher's tower, as well as Anamnesis Anyder. But not only are both of those mediums fairly susceptible to damage, even the WoL and the Scions have to exert some effort to read information in crystals. It's entirely possible that even if you do understand the language, it's just not worth the effort to read.

...especially since you have to consider the possibility that they might not even care. When we came to the Anyders, we were paying attention because we knew people motivated by Amaurot were fairly pressing concerns to us. But the recently sundered? They don't have that context, and might have more pressing concerns like 'finding food' and 'avoiding the giant walking landshark'.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

'avoiding the giant walking landshark'.

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yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhh, their creature perfecting came back and bit us in the bum lol.

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Originally Posted by sidurgu-12

yyyyeeeeaaaahhhhh, their creature perfecting came back and bit us in the bum lol.

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Worse than that, considering who created the Behemoth...

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

But if this video is implying that the Sundering robbed the Ancients of their language - and the abilities to read and write… that’s pretty horrible, but does explain why the Ancients in each reflection didn’t just attempt to pick things back up from right before the Sundering.

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I'm inclined to take it at face value, especially as it's Ishikawa and fits within the lore she's presented when she's had the creative freedom to do so. I don't subscribe to the interpretation that's it's from Emet's POV as opposed to an accurate depiction of events. Emet isn't prone to lying whereas Venat has a long history of deceit. Plus, he can see souls. Were it simply a matter of the shards being diluted copies of the original they would've appeared the same just with thinner aether. What Emet saw were broken souls with broken bodies.

Given Venat's fear was that the Ancients wouldn't change and would go the way of The Plenty, it's reasonable to assume that the goal was to erase their identity, their culture, strip them of their magics, everything that could've set them back on what she considered a doomed path. Forced change at a fundamental level. The Tower of Babel theory would imply there were still languages, which is not what we're told. Matter of fact, it says: "They can no longer shape words." It's then said a substantial amount of time passes before they start to learn and "speak in new tongues". Adding in the context of ShB, the impression I get is by the time they reached this level of development what remained of the Ancient civilization had long been destroyed or fallen into ruin thus resulting in forging new histories as they're unaware of any other.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

...especially since you have to consider the possibility that they might not even care. When we came to the Anyders, we were paying attention because we knew people motivated by Amaurot were fairly pressing concerns to us. But the recently sundered? They don't have that context, and might have more pressing concerns like 'finding food' and 'avoiding the giant walking landshark'.

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If the sundered Ancients were left only just a little confused, (and not completely brain-wiped), then they shouldn’t have a problem remembering how their basic society functioned - nor would they be in such a state of crisis that tussling with monstrous wildlife might cause societal collapse.

Sure, they might not be used to being de-powered, but that doesn’t mean they lost all sense of reason. Azem and likely some friends are still there. Maybe a few decent local leaders too. Unsung heroes. Librarians and scholars. Scientists. If their memories were all just a little clouded - then they should be able to put the pieces of their lives back together…

This isn’t to say they didn’t maybe try. If the sundered Ancients still had a basic idea of who they were, they might’ve even worked with Emet to try and unsunder themselves. We might find out the story of the 13th is more complicated and far sadder than we know.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I'm inclined to take it at face value, especially as it's Ishikawa and fits within the lore she's presented when she's had the creative freedom to do so. (Cut for space)

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It’s also possible the Sundering did a full brain-wipe, effectively murdering everyone’s previous personality - which lead to societal collapse and a return to a Stone Age sort of global reset. If the Sundering was that bad however - it could be another point in the corner for the whole “we go back in time to become Azem and fix the Sundering” theory.

Regardless of which version of the Sundering turns out to be canon - I’m still in the camp that eventually we’re gonna see these events transpire. Maybe we’ll get some further clues as we delve into the 13th…

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Worse than that, considering who created the Behemoth...

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"you know what nature needs!? an animal that can summon flippin meteors!"

"....how does that help nature?"

"i dont know but it looks cool!"

"...good enough. approved."

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Huh? Time travel was largely based off exceptionally advanced technology that was placed into the hands of the Sundered as a consequence of Omega arriving on Etheirys. If not for Omega's arrival, the feat would very likely have not have been possible.

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Omega isn't time travel, Alexander is. Omega was studied to travel in the void between dimensions, the Crystal Tower was studied to open a portal between Reflections, and Alexander was studied to travel time.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

The thing is, is that Cid and Nero both were given their education by Garleans who were educated by Emet-selch in the ways of Magitek. And every advancement in those fields was done by reverse engineering Allagan technology, which was created by Emet-selch.

The seedbed that Cid flourished in was laid by Emet-selch.

And in the end, they built the Tycoon, which is a blow for blow match-up of Alexander Prime. It's less theory and more recreation. The real achievement is the blending of it with two other technologies. However, Allagan technology is based off of Omega's technology, but we have no exact road map of who did that.

Anyway, not trying to kill 8UC's achievement, but it's literally not possible without Cid whose level of technical expertise is impossible without Solus yae Galvus introducing Magitek to the Garleans.

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The Ascians may have created the originals, but the Sundered perfected it. All modern achievements are made standing on the shoulders of giants and it doesn't change the fact that the Ascians didn't come up with the application of the possibilities themselves, or else they could have fixed this whole thing a long time ago. And then Elidibus took the 8UC's feats even further by studying them and making a portal to over 12,000 years ago.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

or else they could have fixed this whole thing a long time ago.

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Honestly, ever since SHB, this has made Alexander and time travel in the setting a gaping plot hole as far as the Ascians are concerned. I know we can attribute it to stuff like they didn't know they were going where they were going with the Ascians back in Heavensward, but the plot has never addressed how an Ascian pretty much told Mide to summon Alexander with the horn 3 years prior to HW vs. what the Ascian's goals are.

It's even more of a slap when you replay Alexander raids, and the Goblins and Mide's crew are going on about, "Making a Utopia/perfect world."

You'd think control over Alexander would be priority #1 for the Ascians, cause hell, if the Illuminati can make it work, why not the, "Primordial Heroes?" They don't even need technology outside of Alexander since they don't need spatial movement since they're not trying to prevent a Rejoining.

Kinda hoping someday we get a Tales from the Chamberpot, and we get some sorta AU Ascian Alexander shenanigan story where they go back in time, but...

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.n...letterbox=true

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Worse than that, considering who created the Behemoth...

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This was a real moment for WoL.

I have a feeling this maybe a long time gag for FF14 now when a behemoth is involved in a story for players who did that side quests to always have a special dialogue option involving WoL remembering he/she help create Behemoth.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

You'd think control over Alexander would be priority #1 for the Ascians, cause hell, if the Illuminati can make it work, why not the, "Primordial Heroes?" They don't even need technology outside of Alexander since they don't need spatial movement since they're not trying to prevent a Rejoining.

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You assume the Ascians actually knew that was going on. They were a little preoccupied at the time.

The only Ascian influence on Alexander as it was going on was Travanchet supplying the treasure of Seal Rock, but I think that was more just general primal-summoning agitations; he knows there's potential for a primal there, he already knew they tried, he just has to stoke the flames. Chances are he didn't know time travel was going to happen at all, because the Illuminati were basically the only people involved who did know that was gonna happen!

Which, when you think about it... good job, Travanchet. The demise of the Ascians was basically his fault.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

You assume the Ascians actually knew that was going on. They were a little preoccupied at the time.

The only Ascian influence on Alexander as it was going on was Travanchet supplying the treasure of Seal Rock, but I think that was more just general primal-summoning agitations; he knows there's potential for a primal there, he already knew they tried, he just has to stoke the flames. Chances are he didn't know time travel was going to happen at all, because the Illuminati were basically the only people involved who did know that was gonna happen!

Which, when you think about it... good job, Travanchet. The demise of the Ascians was basically his fault.

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He told Mide the exact place to summon Alexander though. How could he know that without knowing what was going to be summoned?

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

This was a real moment for WoL.

I have a feeling this maybe a long time gag for FF14 now when a behemoth is involved in a story for players who did that side quests to always have a special dialogue option involving WoL remembering he/she help create Behemoth.

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Scion: "Why the hell does this thing know how to cast Meteor?"
WoL: "...it was a good idea at the time."
Scion: "What?"
WoL: "Nothing, nothing..."

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

You assume the Ascians actually knew that was going on. They were a little preoccupied at the time.

The only Ascian influence on Alexander as it was going on was Travanchet supplying the treasure of Seal Rock, but I think that was more just general primal-summoning agitations; he knows there's potential for a primal there, he already knew they tried, he just has to stoke the flames. Chances are he didn't know time travel was going to happen at all, because the Illuminati were basically the only people involved who did know that was gonna happen!

Which, when you think about it... good job, Travanchet. The demise of the Ascians was basically his fault.

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https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...856&height=482

But yeah, totally just general primal shenanigans. Reuniting the very specific Macguffin at the very specific river location for Mide's very specific desire was just all coincidental.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

But yeah, totally just general primal shenanigans. Reuniting the very specific Macguffin at the very specific river location for Mide's very specific desire was just all coincidental.

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Alexander can see all timelines past, present, and future, and all possible permutations of the "perfect world" and decides that the perfect world cannot exist with him in it and specifically decides to seal itself away and put its hope in our WoL so neither Travanchet nor any of the Ascians would have been able to do anything with it anyway. This could also retroactively mean that it knows about the Ancients, the Tycoon, the 8UC, and the Final Final Days and decides that it's all better than letting the Ascians win so there's that.

Plus Alexander draws so much aether from the planet itself that it is specifically stated that it would cause another Calamity if left to run on its own so yeah, sounds like generic primal shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...856&height=482

But yeah, totally just general primal shenanigans. Reuniting the very specific Macguffin at the very specific river location for Mide's very specific desire was just all coincidental.

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Presuming that he saw their failed attempt, he knows how to make this thing go big. He knows what the treasure of Seal Rock does, he knows that the primal they're trying to summon is a huge goddamn chunker. Given that what we know he wanted to do was to use Alexander's continued existence to cause a Calamity by draining the entire planet dry (it was one of the many plans for a light-aligned Calamity), yeah, he knows the right place to put them. Alexander's a big robot, can't summon a big robot without a good clear site to summon the entire robot. Especially given the lake gives reasonable cover against the summon being noticed too quickly.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

He told Mide the exact place to summon Alexander though. How could he know that without knowing what was going to be summoned?

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I would have to go over all the background again to see who knows what and when, but do any of them know at that point that they are trying to create something that can time-travel, or simply a utopian city?

It sounds more like he's egging her on to do a thing she already has the basic plans for. Perhaps even the location, as it's a bit too vague a description for them to find it otherwise, or at least to not potentially find a different ruin somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

lPlus Alexander draws so much aether from the planet itself that it is specifically stated that it would cause another Calamity if left to run on its own so yeah, sounds like generic primal shenanigans.

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Not only that, but from the Alexander Prime fight it is evidently a Light-aspected primal. If it was going to bring about a calamity, it was likely going to be the eighth.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Presuming that he saw their failed attempt, he knows how to make this thing go big.

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I think you might be getting your sequence confused, unless I'm the one mistaken.

I'm pretty sure they only made one attempt to summon Alexander, which was the one we saw interrupted by our time travelling incident.

As I said earlier, I don't recall any mention of what happened to the horn after that, but it possible that it fell in the river and then later all the Illuminati has to do was wish really hard in the right place and the primal took form in accordance with their wishes.

Alexander couldn't be really used to create a 'utopia' by anyone because the upkeep cost was too high. Any timeline in which it remained active would have resulted in the destruction of the Source and all its reflections.

Don't blame Travanchet. He's probably just wanted to fit in with the others by creating his own diabolic plot.

Emet-Selch, whispering: 'Who is that person in the back, the elezen who keeps on randomly showing up to all our meetings?'

Elidibus: 'My name is Elidibus, and my mission... my mission... wait, who are you? Where have you taken me?!'

Emet-Selch: 'No, not you! The other one!'

Deudalaphon: 'Oh, him? No idea. I thought we'd offered him up as a ritualistic sacrifice to Zodiark after the game relaunched.'

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think you might be getting your sequence confused, unless I'm the one mistaken.

I'm pretty sure they only made one attempt to summon Alexander, which was the one we saw interrupted by our time travelling incident.

As I said earlier, I don't recall any mention of what happened to the horn after that, but it possible that it fell in the river and then later all the Illuminati has to do was wish really hard in the right place and the primal took form in accordance with their wishes.

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Oop, you might be right there, I assumed the Travanchet appearance was after the botched summoning that took Dayan, but I don't think there's actual evidence of that. And the usual wikis I double-check are surprisingly unhelpful on this one.

He is OBVIOUSLY still agitating a weird cult into primal summoning, though. Hell, he doesn't even need to explain primal summoning, he just calls it 'the sacred rite', they already know how to summon a primal.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...856&height=482

But yeah, totally just general primal shenanigans. Reuniting the very specific Macguffin at the very specific river location for Mide's very specific desire was just all coincidental.

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I honestly still wonder what became of Travanchet. His fate is one of the remaining unanswered questions in FF14 from 1.0 era.

The missing Paragons and other lingering Ascians feel like about as big of an elephant in the room as the remaining Garlean legions in terms of their potential for causing problems so I'd like to hope they don't just get glossed over.

If the Sundering really is at risk of attempting to naturally reverse itself now that Hydaelyn is gone, I could see them acting in interest of ensuring that happens simply because it's the closest they can get restoring their "perfect" world now that Zodiark is gone.

If they are bringing back Ascians, there better be more to it than repeating the same plot again, just with a new method.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The missing Paragons and other lingering Ascians feel like about as big of an elephant in the room as the remaining Garlean legions in terms of their potential for causing problems so I'd like to hope they don't just get glossed over.

If the Sundering really is at risk of attempting to naturally reverse itself now that Hydaelyn is gone, I could see them acting in interest of ensuring that happens simply because it's the closest they can get restoring their "perfect" world now that Zodiark is gone.

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Considering Emet did literally SPOILED the future plot of Season 2 about WoL traveling to the remaining Shards, I have a feeling it will be a big part of Season 2 plot. This may actually be part of the reason why WoL ends up traveling to each Shard since currently in 6.X they are setting up the how WoL gains the ability to travel to each Shard from what we learn in 6.1 MSQ.

Along with WoL meeting the remaining Shards of himself/herself in each Shard.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Considering Emet did literally SPOILED the future plot of Season 2 about WoL traveling to the remaining Shards, I have a feeling it will be a big part of Season 2 plot. This may actually be part of the reason why WoL ends up traveling to each Shard since currently in 6.X they are setting up the how WoL gains the ability to travel to each Shard from what we learn in 6.1 MSQ.

Along with WoL meeting the remaining Shards of himself/herself in each Shard.

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Honestly, I think theres a good chance they could pull a fast one.

In 3.1-3.3 the conflict was all about the Warriors of Darkness and their struggles on the First, which seemed to point to that as our inevitable destination. 4.x was all about Garlemald, which when 5.0 came out was uh… yeah. The 5.x was the most straightforward honestly and even it was mostly about the First and Elidibus until 5.4. Endwalker is definitely the one that could break that trend, as it’s doing so with a lot of the narrative patterns we’ve gotten used to, but I could see the writers being sneaky about things.

Given past content trends, I have doubts our incursion into the void is going to involve more then a dungeon, a hub area for the trials, and possibly the trials themselves.

I also doubt the 13th or the other shards will be the subject of an expansion just yet because if there's some kind of new existential crisis on its way I feel like we'd be addressing it Source-side firstly.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Given past content trends, I have doubts our incursion into the void is going to involve more then a dungeon, a hub area for the trials, and possibly the trials themselves.

I also doubt the 13th or the other shards will be the subject of an expansion just yet because if there's some kind of new existential crisis on its way I feel like we'd be addressing it Source-side firstly.

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Pretty much this. I also had the sinking feeling that the 13th void stuff was going to condensed to a hub area and fighting trials. The 13th was originally given that treatment before with the World of Darkness. We aren't really going to the 13th to restore it, we're going there to find some dragon. Who honestly at this point, will probably be the 6.3 trial. Some void corrupted dragon. If we do somehow restore the 13th shard, it'll probably be done how the empty in the first is done.

What I am most interested in finding out is where is the part of our soul that was lost on the 13th? Surely it has to still be out there somewhere. I'm currently leading towards it being that Knight in Black from the cutscene. (Which will either be Dark Knight Cecil or Golbez).

But yeah I'm pretty sure the 13th shard stuff will be finished before 7.0 even hits. We're going to figure out shard travel going there and go to a different shard for a new journey in 7.0.

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

What I am most interested in finding out is where is the part of our soul that was lost on the 13th? Surely it has to still be out there somewhere. I'm currently leading towards it being that Knight in Black from the cutscene. (Which will either be Dark Knight Cecil or Golbez).

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With Zenos' Avatar being singled out as special and important and something to watch, I'm almost positive that that's going to end up being our soul shard from the Thirteenth.

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

With Zenos' Avatar being singled out as special and important and something to watch, I'm almost positive that that's going to end up being our soul shard from the Thirteenth.

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I actually forgot about that for a second. Thanks for reminding me. That's a good point. It'd make a lot of sense if that turned out to be our soul from there.

I feel like they're trying to sort out the matter of inter-shard travel sooner then later mostly for the sake of muddying the waters when it comes to people figuring out where we'll be going next.

I could just as easily see the business with Azdaja transitioning into helping Tiamat sort out some problems over in Meracydia, while there's another catalyst for conflict in Ilsabard with the Garleans having been temporarily ousted from Corvos thanks to the Final Days, and it's unlikely the more patriotic-minded legions in the neighboring provinces are going to let that slide..