It implies that they give people money to purchase houses. Don't know why that's a thing they need to delete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
I'm gonna say it. cause no one else will.
Printable View
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10-24-2021, 06:11 PMMilkieTea
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10-24-2021, 06:23 PMDrkdays
Wording, that's all. I would have said I paid for three other player's houses rather than I bought houses for other players.
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10-24-2021, 06:59 PMVictoriaLuvI agree with you Darkdays. these people are want ruin the mmo by making white mage full like black mage. seen what they did to paladin i dont want 22-30 button rotation on my already heavy bloated healing job. sometimes people dont know what they ask for. think they do but they don't alot people love dps jobs. so they try ruin other jobs like healing jobs making them feel more like summoner/blm. when never there job to be like that. they dont understand that healing support job first and dps secondQuote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
even have people want take all healing spells away make healing jobs 85% dps. like that fun seriously? just catter to elitist that play this game -
10-24-2021, 07:07 PMMilkieTea
Victoria. Stop.
No one in this thread has advocated for giving healers a full blown DPS kit and nuking all healing spells. NO ONE. The arguments in this thread have been: Give healers one. or two. extra DPS buttons. Stop arguing in bad faith. -
10-24-2021, 07:34 PMMisutoraru
OP you are brave, speaking the opposite of what this forum mainstream want.
we want more intense healing, more debuff and buff skill to fill the downtime instead of DPS
but
however, we who want more intense healing/buff/debuff skill for healer have become the minority in this forum -
10-24-2021, 08:01 PMAceceMany would agree? Most healers just want more engaging healers weather thats buffs, debuffs, more intesive healing, a engaging dps rotation, or maybe all of them lol. I wouldn't because I love a dps centric healer but I wouldn't be oppose to those sort of healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
I think buffs are fine but tbh I always thought buffs were ast thing and a ranged dps sort of thing rather then a healer thing.
debuffs are fun but with the debuff cap in this game It's always going to be wacky to deal with that many debuffs (especially in a alliance raid) if we gave all healers debuffs.
If we upped the healing casuals would leave the role to have less stress in other roles and only Hardcore Elitist Gamers™ would stay.
I believe a unique and fun dps rotation for all healers would be the best way to deal with the game is currently played. Besides they could add more healing in the game and a unique way of contributing damage for all the healers. -
10-24-2021, 08:23 PMAbsurdityThey really haven't, it's simply a pipe dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
People asking for more dps options don't do this because they don't want to heal, they simply know that SE will NEVER make you heal for 90% of a fight, it's just not gonna happen.
1. They would have to entirely redesign the healer jobs, because the current MP economy is not designed for the amount of incoming damage that requires constant healing. You would run out of oGCDs after maybe 20 seconds and would then have to spam GCD heals, which leaves you completely out of MP after a minute if you're lucky.
SCH for example wouldn't even be able to keep up with the required healing because it's GCD healing tools are too weak. (I actually think none of the healers could currently keep up with fights requiring 90% healing uptime)
2. It would require a complete redesign of fight mechanics, you can't be dancing around as much when you need to constantly spam healing.
3. It would absolutely crush a sizeable amount of healers, they can barely keep the party alive with the current laughable healing requirements, what do you expect happens when the required healing increases by 200+%?
4. If they only did this for the newest fights in an expansion, which is the most likely outcome, you would still be bored out of your mind in content from 1-80.
Veteran healers are asking for more dps options because fights currently have between 60-90% downtime in which you spam the same 1 button over and over again. Adding more things to do during that downtime is the easiest fix, it doesn't require a complete job rework, it doesn't require a complete encounter rework and it doesn't make the game harder for cure 1 spamming healbots.
People like the OP who simply want healers to "heal more" because "your job is to heal" simply have no clue what they're talking about, they think it would be as simple as making things deal more damage...unless they don't even want content to hit harder and just want healers to spam a bunch of pointless overhealing that contributes absolutely nothing. -
10-24-2021, 08:39 PMAnotherPersonQuote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
Actually, most people would agree with you on the forums about this - but it's just not feasible for a solution. That would be forcibly raising the skill floor, which would start excluding the lowest percentile of healers - and that's a big nono for SE who wants everyone to be able to play FFXIV. Plus, with better gear, healing will always lose its intensity after a couple of patches, which creates a bigger downtime (which will never be properly erased).
DPS options, on the other hand, doesn't raise skill floor. It just raises skill ceiling, which is a good thing for growth and gameplay improvement in a job. -
10-24-2021, 08:41 PMSaefinnBut it existed in 14 and it worked well. You know, we could have taken the attitude, "don't like it? Play another MMO".Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
However, instead, I've taken the argument of if people don't like it then maybe the devs could have created a 4th healer to satisfy these people. But instead they stripped down all of the existing healers.
And the thing is, we weren't so distracted to fail at our true role, heck even now although I've been more subject to "oops I forgot I was the healer" if you have me as your healer in your party you're very unlikely to run into these problems because I can manage my healing and DPS just fine. I'll even let your health drop low on purpose but then you know, Earthly Star and Essential Dignity are at their most useful when people's HP has dropped. But I don't think I am that special of a healer either, sure I'm competent enough for Savage but I know I am low percentile.
People have complained about healers not healing since 2.0, sure but I have heard the complaint the most during Shadowbringers. Yet in Shadowbringers we have the simplest and most dumbed down version of healer DPS we've ever had and the healing requirement has probably been one of its lowest because we're sitting at some pretty hefty downtime.
So I don't think DPS complexity is an issue. I think it's the fact the game marks/rewards performance based on DPS contribution and healing exists because a dead player is a DPS loss.
But when you're spamming the same button for the majority of the time it's a lot easier to to tunnel vision. So I think how healers are currently designed it's worse for this problem not better.
With how DPS worked on healers you weren't tied to a combo rotation, so there was no carrot on the stick to distract you from healing and healing intensity was higher and you had fewer healing tools at your disposal so it meant that downtime was shorter. So it didn't mean you tunnel visioned and I feel you were more likely to keep a healing focus. Sure people still messed up, but I think it was less likely to happen...and if it wasn't, then it's no different to how things are now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
On the contrary I think people have been more in favour of both. I think DPS comes up more because of the following:
- It's what we had and what the game was designed to favour
- We already are DPSing most of the time, so make it interesting
- It's the easiest solution with the current game design
- It respects the skill floor, the devs want healers to be more accessible, and DPS is a secondary function that is not required for the vast majority of content. And good healer DPS is not required unless you're going for maximum efficiency.
I know there is an element of people who enjoy the healer/DPS hybrid too...I did, but I also know that I am willing to compromise.
But I think if we had what you're suggesting and it was keeping us occupied, I think people for the most part would fine. But at the moment, they've stripped down the DPS aspect without putting something in its place. In the early days of this I wrote up a suggestion for SCH that is more debuff focused playing to some of the stuff SCH had in 2.0 that got change because it wasn't effective and instead of improving on it, they took it away.
But to make such changes meaningful would mean changes to encounter design unless those buffs/debuffs improve DPS on some level, in which case AST already does this and to be fair, AST is one of those jobs I keep saying is a lot closer to where we should be.
An approach that I think I would quite like and I think help address many concerns would be:
White Mage - Pure healer with big heals, also big damage (relative to healers), the DPS aspect doesn't need to be a lot more complicated than it is now, it remains relative simple but enough to break Glare monotony.
Scholar - Shield healer with a DoT mage aspect, SMN has completely abandoned its DoT mage aspect and thematically this has always best suited SCH. So give it back.
Astrologian - Pure healer with a buffing aspect, its DPS remains simple but its down time is filled with buffing party members.
Sage - Shield healer with a debuff aspect, which I realise is contrary to its current design, but its current design is 85% SCH, so they could have a mechanic that allows them to weaken the enemy with a series of debuffs. This could have been an element that differentiates it from how SCH plays. Although it has its "DPS to heal" aspect, all this really does is replace the SCH faerie and much of your DPS will still be a 1 button spam, but you have a few more spells to break it up. There's not a lot separating its identity.
This way you get meaningful variety between jobs. And if the game still values DPS are a performance marker, then AST and SGE debuffs are balanced based on raid DPS contribuition. Then it leaves WHM and SCH true to their identity they started with and satisfies those who prefer a healer/hybrid DPS and WHM gets to remain simple and easy to pick up. And SCH retains its complexity without overdoing it. -
10-24-2021, 08:48 PMAbsurdity
I forgot to add that the same problem applies to utility that reduces damage or buffs healing, both simply reduce the amount of healing required after the incoming damage. So unless the content requires the use of said utility to survive then all it does is create more downtime for healers and consequently more mindless 1 button spam. If my 1 Medica II heals the party enough for the next mechanic then I'm not gonna cast it 2-3 more times afterwards, that's just pointless overhealing.
AST's utility works because it buffs party dps, something that is always a useful contribution, but you can't turn every healer into Astro. -
10-24-2021, 09:07 PMDeceptusThey have in the past but every single time they've done it, players have complained. Anytime the game had any modicum of difficulty a large majority of the playerbase simply can't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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10-24-2021, 09:58 PMMisutoraru
I never understand why can we have different type of healer
WHM be the powerful healer high healing potency for new player
AST be the healer that focus on buff and debuff
SCH focus on fairy with some micromanagement oGCD fairy skill and with focus on DOT/DPS
Basically ARR/HW era healer but expanded on that. Players who want more casual or less complex healer could pick WHM, those who want to focus on buff and debuff can pick AST and SCH can be a green DPS -
10-24-2021, 10:04 PMBlueMageQuina
PSA:
I stopped reading this thread after the first post on the second page.
And you should too. -
10-24-2021, 10:51 PMglamazon
Op is just… anyway I will now only do for management. I refuse to spam one button over and over. No more glare or holy spam for me. If aw wants me to heal that’s what I’ll do. If they want me to dps them give me a proper dps 123 combo
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10-24-2021, 11:04 PMAFuzzyMu11inI totally agree with this, I just don't want anything that someone can try to optimize for more damage in a opener or rotation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
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10-24-2021, 11:06 PMty_taurusCan we not have a filler 123 combo? It's not different in any way to just spamming Glare anyway. What we want is more meaningful button interactions, not extra buttons for the sake of extra buttons. That's something many of us have been fighting against with the few individuals who see the fight for more fun as nothing more than an ask for unnecessary bloat. For most of the tanks and DPS jobs, they don't just have filler combo buttons, but reasons to different combo actions for various effects. Monk is a great example of this:Quote:
Originally Posted by glamazon
You have two 123 combos based on your forms, and basically a different option for both the rear and the flank. You want to use them at different times to maintain certain things like your Twin Snakes buff or your DoT.
Any buttons we add should have some sort of meaning and more likely should interact with our kits either directly or indirectly.
I love that you used the word "someone" and not "I."Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
You are quite literally saying you don't want other people to have the option to optimize. What a boldly selfish statement. What an un-healer thing to say. -
10-24-2021, 11:09 PMAceceWhen you say this, you're pretty much asking whm to never be viable unless the other two healers are broken (in a bad way). Basically the other healers would need to use double the resources whm would needs to heal a raid wide if it was balanced properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
Why would any one ever pick whm with no utilities when ast exist and heal just fine if not better then whm with utilities such as buffs and debuffs. What would make whm better then ast? -
10-24-2021, 11:28 PMVictoriaLuvthank you. say my mind rather it upsets them or not. when played this game. mmos as long as I have I know what rapid change can do to a game. also not scared of anyone all they can do is talk. no physical harm to me. whole mainstream can bite it for all i care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
Minority but correct one. anyone you supports healing being healing. don't be silent speak up. avoiding conflict isn't right path. are you let these people destroy your healing jobs by making all healers New Caster DPS. Final Fantasy 14 to them say no. there just lazy. they dont want to heal. they are probably a dps main. don't understand how it feels be good healers. all they want is big numbers high parce
I say no to them. I want my healing experience made be funner. make everyone take more damage. make the game harder for healers. new healers will adjust. 1-90 levels to adjust to it. or have years of playing this game to adjust to it. make it were tanks no longer pull massive groups of monsters. first group does so much damage them. pulling a second just out right kill them , make 1 group do as much damage as 4 groups combined. have more HP if they pull additional group i guess its a wipe, make normal raids feel like savage and savage feel like hell on earth
I tired of it. all this catering to new players. very reason we are in this mess in first place. white mage is trash. yes i call my main trash cause cant go savage content forced to switch ast/sch cause they are more op then white mage is cause healing is itself isn't as important to ulitiy cause how bloody easy they made it
yes healers can offer dps . but shouldn't be the way it is. making game easier for new players on job that is meant for healing as made it boring
but in savage contect. there should never be easy. added too it. it should be too hard. you should never be giving any breathing room as a healer. while still having do mechaincs
Make Healers Heal More without new dps tools make healers enjoy healing role. hard normally means fun
white mage should never be insituation where its complete kit is conserted bad or out proformed by other 2 healers as far as healing
I mean black mage is never outperformed by other dps. then why is white mage so post be big heals. out preformed by ast/sch this is imbalience we face in the game. as boring as sch is its broken. ast long as ast has direct damage buffs its beyond broken -
10-24-2021, 11:49 PMAFuzzyMu11inHold on they removed DA? Dark knight is easier in EW? Why are people complaining LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Drkdays
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10-24-2021, 11:58 PMAFuzzyMu11inNo because once it becomes optimal, it becomes forced on you by default. “This is the optimal 10-15 button” rotation during this phase learn it for this fight only because the math people said so. I use the 95% of the time this is fine rotation that works for everything not some over optimized crap for raid buffsQuote:
Originally Posted by ty_taurus
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10-25-2021, 12:04 AMSaefinnI agree, though I'd give WHM more than that because we'd end up back to the problems WHM have in the past complained about. But I've always felt this is the advantage of having more than one job, you get to satisfy different people's needs. So it doesn't have to be "healers should be this", "healers should be that".Quote:
Originally Posted by Misutoraru
Make WHM/SCH/AST evolutions of their original design suitable for current content and then make SGE suit a type of player who's excluded by the other 3 jobs. This would have been the ideal approach.
Although they're going about it backwards they seem to at least be making some steps in the right direction. So i hoping the do more still rather than say "this is it, done".
Victoria, with statements like this you lose credibility because you're completely misrepresenting the 'other' side and the comments made to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv
The devs already HAVE give us too much of a DPS focus and we're still complaining. Maybe the complaint not to do with the idea that we'd rather DPS. And if I preferred to DPS, I'd be maining DNC, like I did for a period at the start of Shadowbringers when I was disgruntled at the state of healers, yet, for some reason I am back maining a healer again wanting my experience to be fulfilling as a healer and I think it's something echo'd by many who're complaining here. Think about why this might be.
It's not just about savage content. If you take me, a semi-casual who's a grey parse in EX and Savage you'll find that actually, I find healing Savage to be enjoyable but I don't enjoy Savage enough to make it the core of what I do especially as it take time and focus, and it'd probably be better for me to join a static if I did which is not something I can commit to, I used to be able to back in my days of playing FFXI and SW:TOR, but not nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoriaLuv
As for accommodating new players, that's going to be a losing battle to challenge. And "accessibility" doesn't just mean people who're new but people with handicaps that prevent them from reaching a certain skill level and I've come across healers who fall into that category. And the devs have always been about making this game accessible and they're not going to change that. It doesn't mean make Savage easy as you suggest it would. But if they're to make healing tough enough to be interesting for players with a higher skill level then it will make things less accessible. Yoshi P even stated this was the problem they were having in trying to make healers more interesting. For me personally if I am fine if they make healing tough enough to make it interesting because it would engage me better and I would find the experience satisfying.
But it's not just about me. Hence my desire to find solutions that work for me and other people even if it means compromise. I think most people realize that the devs want to keep this game accessible and probably hence why we don't see many suggestions to change that. -
10-25-2021, 12:36 AMlisaa
Idk why everything have to be so complicated, it is already complicated enough. Just have easy and relaxing gameplay. If I want complexity I can play SAM or NIN
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10-25-2021, 01:25 AMDogempireBecause an entire role has been dumbed down to please the people who want something not complex. If you want a non-complex dps job you have dancer or red mage, if you want a non-complex tank job you have warrior, and if you want a non-complex healer role you have literally the entire roleQuote:
Originally Posted by lisaa
Personally I like playing the less complex jobs when I feel like relaxing, but the lack of an option for a more complex, harder to optimize healer is what people have an issue with -
10-25-2021, 01:27 AMAFuzzyMu11inRed mage is complex, Paladin is simple as fuck, and you guys have sage now for your complexity so you can literally stop asking for it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
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10-25-2021, 01:30 AMAbsurdityCalling Paladin simple as fuck and Sage complex...very quick and easy way to show everyone that you have no clue what you're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
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10-25-2021, 01:32 AMAFuzzyMu11inI'm tired of people calling paladin complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
Its quite literally just a 3 rotating combo. Its extremely simple.
Gouring combo
Royal combo
Atonement combo
Gouring combo
Confieter combo
Just weave your abilities under the 20% attack buff bonus from the start and make sure its hopefully down by the time you start confieter HOW is this NOT SIMPLE? -
10-25-2021, 01:37 AMAbsurdityThank you for just proving my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
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10-25-2021, 01:44 AMAFuzzyMu11in???? Please explain to me where I'm wrong here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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10-25-2021, 01:45 AMTalaris
Some facts about XIV
1.) Between server ping, the game's skill floor, and how group/Raid combat is designed, you cannot include heavy spikes that aren't scripted. EverQuest/WoW style buzzsaw bosses just don't work in this game, because it would be catastrophic to most players.
2.) Because the game has to be scripted on some level with minimal random damage, there will be an optimal way to heal for it. Because there's an optimal way to heal for it, there will be downtime. This downtime will grow as you become more familiar with the content, improve gear, and as your friends stop stepping in the fire.
This will also scale depending on the content you do. What amounts to 40% downtime on Savage may end up translating to 80% downtime in MSQ dungeons.
3.) The limitations of debuffs in the game presently prevent meaningful crowd control/disabler duties from springing up. Sleep is heavily underutilized in the game, and the other CC options (blind, silence, frog) are only really effective when its against us.
4.) Tanks do not get downtime during fights. If they went without performing actions for 20-50% of the fight, the DPS and healers would probably die.
5.) DPS do not get downtime during fights. If they were to stop fighting for 20-50% of the time, nothing would ever get done and we'd likely wipe due to mana issues or enrage.
Because of these, you end up with gaps pretty darn quick. And since its irresponsible to be the only person sitting around and enjoying the scenery while everyone else is fighting for their lives, you have a couple options.
A.) Buffs:Not always available to press. Gotta find something else
B.) Debuffs/CC: As above, limited use and diminishing returns hurt this. Not to mention THEY'RE DELETING FLUID AURA! Next.
C.) DPS. Its not your stated job, but you have run out of things to do.
Well what do you know. I guess we made it back to this spot. DPS is the only thing left to do as the game exists now. With that settled...
Unfortunately it seems OP and their supporters have a disconnect from what the healers are actually asking for. I don't think any healer actually wants a burst opener or a 9 button DPS rotation. I think they'd settle for something that gives some variety in their casts, or something more engaging in general. Good support options, like buffs, debuffs, crowd control, and more robust damage options could all fill those gaps.
Addersting, new buffs, Holy 3 supposedly giving Lilies are nice little quality of life changes that might help to improve the jobs some. But in the duration of a fight, none of them are more noticable than the DPS buttons, and so long as we just have the 1 nuke/dot/AE paradigm, the jobs are worse for it.
Me, I'd settle for Aero III and Shadow Flare coming back. And that cool laser move that AST used to have. That thing looked cool. And if we get something better than that, great.
An extra button or 2 wont hurt the casual healers. -
10-25-2021, 01:53 AMDogempireIf you're able to call Paladin easy then I don't get how healing with more than a 1 button rotation is that hard to you, you can basically ignore the tanks in 90% of content and they'll be fineQuote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
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10-25-2021, 02:06 AMRein_eon_OsborneThe following are something a bit more technical than your favorite Broil spam :rolleyes: Read at your own risk:Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
Have you ever considered that PLD's Fight or Flight only affect some of PLD's actions? Have you ever considered that PLD's Confiteor only affects some of PLD's actions? Have you ever considered looping two part of the rotation instead of just slamming all keys into one window, effectively wasting more than half of their potential? Have you ever considered of to abuse debuff snapshot to ensure you get two buffed Goring Blade?
EDIT: Oh I see you brought in the rotation screenshot, well done! You've done part of your homework! Well then, have you considered that you have to take account on specific encounters? Like how e9s and e10s boss doesn't like to move around and you have to reposition yourself and the boss? Have you ever considered how this will affect your rotation alignment? Have you considered how e11s boss throws out generic PLD's rotation out of window? Blah blah yada yada yada....[snip]
So did you read it? Yes? No? Well, it doesn't matter.
Look, we get it. You want it simple, whether you understand the bigger picture or not. Well there you have it: our current iteration of healer (and possibly in EW). Go back in-game and enjoy them, don't come here to enforce your simpleton playstyle feedback to subforum which is clearly not what people are asking for. If you want to speak up your piece, assess the atmosphere and do your homework accordingly before ruining your own credibility, time and time again. -
10-25-2021, 02:08 AMAFuzzyMu11inIdk maybe some people just find certain things simpler than others. Also tank only has to monitor it'self. Same with old smn rotation, I'm not forced to look at health bars constantly to see if someone is about to int themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogempire
Also, you have to remember I come from SMN, I don't want to see anything like that happen to healers, or what old scholar was like. Also micro on the fairy/pet is absolute dog trash and I never want to see that return. -
10-25-2021, 02:15 AMlisaaThis sounds kind of toxic. Not everyone feels the same way about healers and only your opinion is the correct one and every other opinion is wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne
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10-25-2021, 02:31 AMSemirhage
Toxic (noun):
1. Giving Sylphies information
2. Offering to teach Sylphies how to improve
3. Stating or implying that a Curebot could possibly learn anything
Non-Toxic (noun phrase):
1. Telling vet healers to shut up and get out if they don't like it. -
10-25-2021, 02:31 AMAbsurdityYou know what else is kinda toxic? Wanting an entire role in the game to be mindnumbingly boring for everyone else because you "want to relax".Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaa
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10-25-2021, 02:40 AMAFuzzyMu11inYou want this toxic ass mess back bro not me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Semirhage
https://imgur.com/vv7m3wc 3.0
https://imgur.com/5mK833h 4.0
Instead of a guide not made for a dps lite and instead for someone whose job is to focus on healing, and in the meantime do dps but simple dps.
https://saltedxiv.com/wp-content/upl...-opener-v8.png
And still you people insist on trying to complicate it with dissipation but I digress. -
10-25-2021, 02:45 AMSaefinnThen why don't we design different healers to suit different types of people?Quote:
Originally Posted by lisaa
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10-25-2021, 02:46 AMAFuzzyMu11inThey have. Sage. Sage will hopefully only get more complicated for the people who want it to be so. It's not appealing to me, seems like a more complex sch with way more buttons to be concerned with pressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saefinn
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10-25-2021, 02:58 AMSemirhageI have not once, ever on this forum even implied that I want 3.0 WHM back. But keep beating that Sylphie strawman. Ooo, and an extra definition too:Quote:
Originally Posted by AFuzzyMu11in
Toxic (noun):
4. Complexity. Any at all.
Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis Dosis DosisQuote:
They have. Sage. Sage will hopefully only get more complicated for the people who want it to be so. It's not appealing to me, seems like a more complex sch with way more buttons to be concerned with pressing
So complicated. I don't know how anyone will handle it. -
10-25-2021, 03:01 AMCrimsonGunner
I'm gonna say it. cause everyone else did.
AFuzzyMu11in , "you must be stupid" probably apply to you as well as seeing you posting a palading rotaion that literally has a 3 part with each part having like 3 + skills to press while calling healers rotation complex.
let me break down the rotation for you during downtime:
glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,
oh wait you want optimal
glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,dia,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,glare,
yes that is the most complex rotation when you don't heal cause it requires you to press a button.
responsibility wise tanks need to focus on positions(cause you know melee positions also count making it a tank tribute to maxing dps output) ,doing mechanics, mitigating raid wide damage, making sure to tank swap in time, keeping aggro(keep their stance on) all that while doing dps at the same time
healers responsiblities: seeing everyone hp and making sure ppl alive, doing mechanics while doing dps.
same level of responsibility maybe a bit higher and yet that healer rotation is too complex? yet when a person ask to have 1 more button (buff/debuff/ or a single dps button cause no other option availble) and suddenly its "NO,ITS TOO COMPLEX YOU WANT US TO BE DPS ,YOU WANT TO HAVE A 10,20,1000 BUTTONS TO DPS,IF YOU WANT TO DPS GO DPS ,ADD THAT BUTTON WILL MAKE HEALERS TO DAMN HARD,I WILL BE FORCED TO OPTIMIZE AND PRESS 2 BUTTONS RATHER THEN 1" like dude chill ,read the comments ,understand the cost and changes people told you 1000 times already no one wants healer to not be accessible they just don't want to be at the bottom floor of the design table catering to you lazy healers who probably only press cure 1 and don't know what cure 2 or even what is ogcd. they don't ask make the healers dps that can heal, they ask that when they dont heal, they will be able to support more then 1 button that do damage.
you have been told numerous times ,you don't spend half the fight healing ,people brought evidence showing you that most healers don't spend half the fight healing and it only gets worse when the party get better , you go through content below savage doing almost nothing, you have dps that can replace you, have a tank that can replace you in that content and you think healing there is required 80% of the time when you barely get a bobo hit unless the tank actually do a big all mobs pulls which last 2-5 sec.
you have people left and right from the community both agreeing to healers being healers and accepting much more well based thoughts and ideas that actually promote healing and support and much more understanding to varied ideas and changes then you.
and yet you dare to call someone else stupid?