Mentor Roulette should have longer lockout time

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

as I've said in my other posts anytime I've been in a synced Ex trial it's been a clear regardless of the other mentors that have sandbagged or straight up abandoned the group.. even if I would of gotten a trial that lasted for the full lockout I'd still stay the entire time and try an help and teach.. part of the agreement we signed when we asked to be mentors..

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It took some time, heck, I even helped with an Odin Ex and I think a Shiva Ex clear which both went surprisingly well, but ultimately the Thordan Ex I spoke of earlier in this thread broke me and I haven't touched the roulette since, even though I had access to it for awhile after. It's a two way street. Sure, we are there to help, but players also need to want it for things to work. Personally, I abandoned that roulette and never looked back. I can help out in other ways without losing my sanity. If there's questions in NN that need answering, I will. If someone in a dungeon or raid asks for tips, I will give them some tips provided someone hasn't beaten me to the punch already. I will also help clear various things through the PF. None of these things feel like I'm wasting my time, unlike the Mentor Roulette, and it is hopefully doing some good. That is what I signed up for, not queueing for some random roulette. Regardless, they have to ask for it, because as I said...they have to want it. I will not be bending over backwards for lost causes since I value my time and I respect the time of those around me. They don't deserve such treatment either. I'm certainly not wearing my crown anymore though, since that thing has gotten me nothing but trouble. No matter how politely I gave advice, I was basically seen as the "lolmentor". The only place it is visible is in the NN.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

First you need to calm down a bit.. you'll get yourself banned for the langue your using and we don't want that.. this is a discussion not a brawl.

2nd im also a mentor, all be it a crafting one as I'm still working on my commendations again.. as I've said in my other posts anytime I've been in a synced Ex trial it's been a clear regardless of the other mentors that have sandbagged or straight up abandoned the group.. even if I would of gotten a trial that lasted for the full lockout I'd still stay the entire time and try an help and teach.. part of the agreement we signed when we asked to be mentors..

Lastly no one has call you a mount or something to carry.. thats what dungeons are for honestly a trial is a team thing.. sure we can make it with 1 or 2 not pulling their weight but are you going to personally join that spouts Ex PF for a synced trial after you tell them to try there? Probably not.. your going tell them to sit in PF for hours waiting for people to help or find members when they were already in the trial when you abandoned them.. without even trying..

So good luck honestly you don't wanna help in the trial you got you probably don't wanna join a synced PF what do you want from being a mentor then if you don't wanna do the stuff you get from the roulette ?

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1. Nice threat.

2. If YOU want to dedicate x amount of time to teaching the same group, that is entirely your choice. It is a VOLUNTARY position, none of us are getting paid to do anything. Therefore, how we mentor is entirely up to the individual person. Might want to accept that fact instead of treating it like your way is only proper way of doing things.

3. What we join to help with is also entirely up to us and I'm not sure where you're getting hours of wait time from with PF. Outside of really select stuff (like myth strat for E9S for example which I've personally had a couple hours wait for), PFs fill up quickly. There is also a MASSIVE influx of new players from WoW and other places with Endwalker coming who are also going to be looking to clear the content. Have a little bit of patience, there are literally THOUSANDS of people playing the game at any time, if not TENS of thousands. A party will be formed and you'll get your clear and if not you keep trying. That's how life works.

4. I do join sync'd PFs and also assist with teaching through the PF. Currently I help with fresh progs in Diamond Ex. Please don't throw your baseless assumptions at me like you have any idea who I am in game.

Extreme trials you get in Mentor roulette are a case by case basis in my book (I would never use the blanket statement everyone signed up for the fight, signed up to learn the fight). Granted I've actually tried teaching some of the fights I've gotten to no avail with no one listening (and in one case a funny argument that involved people saying the mechanics were being explained wrong).

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I don't give a crap about the reward, nor do I feel a duty to drag paint eaters through content years old and utterly irrelevant that they can easily do in five minutes unsynched. I do mentor roulette when I am bored, and if I get an ex nine times out of ten I'll bounce and give the other six poor sods a free way out.

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No offense meant, but you are showing exactly the type of behavior the OP means to discourage. Mentor roulettes out of boredom. Using it as some sort of "whatever" button. Actual disdain for new and/or inexperienced players and older content.

So while I get you want some sort of outlet, the mentor system is not meant for what you're using it for.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

1. Nice threat.

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That's not a threat, it's solid advice and likely a friendly caution. I've been silenced on the forum for an entire day for using a word that starts with d and rhymes with numb. They're pretty strict with language here.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

No offense meant, but you are showing exactly the type of behavior the OP means to discourage. Mentor roulettes out of boredom. Using it as some sort of "whatever" button. Actual disdain for new and/or inexperienced players and older content.

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I specified EX trials. Story trials, dungeon, 24 mans, 8 mans are all fine. It's an objective waste of time to spend an hour plus for an old EX. You get no bonus rewards and the experience counts for nothing. If you want raid/ex experience hit cap and do the current ones.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I specified EX trials. Story trials, dungeon, 24 mans, 8 mans are all fine. It's an objective waste of time to spend an hour plus for an old EX. You get no bonus rewards and the experience counts for nothing. If you want raid/ex experience hit cap and do the current ones.

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And each of those has their own queue. You're missing the forest for the trees here. You don't want ALL of what the mentor roulette offers, don't queue it. Referring to other players as "Paint eaters" isn't helping me see your particular forays as mentor mentality endeavors either.
It's an objective waste of time to play a video game. If you think extra time spent helping people learn something is "wasted" then again.. you aren't doing what the mentor program is based around.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And each of those has their own queue. You're missing the forest for the trees here. You don't want ALL of what the mentor roulette offers, don't queue it. Referring to other players as "Paint eaters" isn't helping me see your particular forays as mentor mentality endeavors either.
It's an objective waste of time to play a video game. If you think extra time spent helping people learn something is "wasted" then again.. you aren't doing what the mentor program is based around.

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I mean I eat 30 minute penalty, and give other players who don't want to be there a free out. Plus those that want to subject themselves to a old synched are free to stay. Everybody wins. Mentorship is voluntary, and as a mentor I can pick and choose when to and when not to mentor.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean I eat 30 minute penalty, and give other players who don't want to be there a free out. Plus those that want to subject themselves to a old synched are free to stay. Everybody wins. Mentorship is voluntary, and as a mentor I can pick and choose when to and when not to mentor.

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You also kill the queue for whomever waited for it to pop so there's that time lost for them. Now they can choose to wait in a "dead" pop and hope backfill works and have nothing to do in the mean time (if they were just in queue they could do other activities) or leave and re-queue and possibly get another person like you. Everyone does not win.

You most definitely can choose when to mentor and when not to mentor. It is not a job. However when you choose to queue "mentor" queue, you'd think you'd be choosing to mentor. You're using a mentor resource with a mentor based purpose.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You also kill the queue for whomever waited for it to pop so there's that time lost for them. Now they can choose to wait in a "dead" pop and hope backfill works and have nothing to do in the mean time (if they were just in queue they could do other activities) or leave and re-queue and possibly get another person like you. Everyone does not win.

You most definitely can choose when to mentor and when not to mentor. It is not a job. However when you choose to queue "mentor" queue, you'd think you'd be choosing to mentor. You're using a mentor resource with a mentor based purpose.

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Well then they would do well to heed my mentor advice and use PF for EX trials, and then use the free out I gave them to do so.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

1. Nice threat.

2. If YOU want to dedicate x amount of time to teaching the same group, that is entirely your choice. It is a VOLUNTARY position, none of us are getting paid to do anything. Therefore, how we mentor is entirely up to the individual person. Might want to accept that fact instead of treating it like your way is only proper way of doing things.

3. What we join to help with is also entirely up to us and I'm not sure where you're getting hours of wait time from with PF. Outside of really select stuff (like myth strat for E9S for example which I've personally had a couple hours wait for), PFs fill up quickly. There is also a MASSIVE influx of new players from WoW and other places with Endwalker coming who are also going to be looking to clear the content. Have a little bit of patience, there are literally THOUSANDS of people playing the game at any time, if not TENS of thousands. A party will be formed and you'll get your clear and if not you keep trying. That's how life works.

4. I do join sync'd PFs and also assist with teaching through the PF. Currently I help with fresh progs in Diamond Ex. Please don't throw your baseless assumptions at me like you have any idea who I am in game.

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1) was being serious I'm not going report you just giving a heads up.

2)I can an do, that for new players and some of my FC members who wanna do it synced for the first time, as said below your killing the queue by leaving if your the only mentor there.

3)but I'm asking.. if you tell someone to do it in PF.. say it's Ifirit Ex.. are you going to join that PF and help with the advice you gave or are you going to just forget them an requeue for mentor hoping for easy content?

4)not what we're talking about.. Diamond is current content in Raid Finder.. were talking EXs from Stormblood an eariler.. are you joining synced Exs from those? Because you can't unsync Diamond..

5)you didn't answer my last question.. if your not going to teach new players rotations or mechincs or anything that might take more then 20mim of your time.. what are you getting out of being a mentor? What are you a mentor for if your not mentoring new players.?

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Well then they would do well to heed my mentor advice and use PF for EX trials, and then use the free out I gave them to do so.

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Solid advice for where we are with how people treat the mentor queue. Granted.
But again.. the point of this whole thread being that people using mentor queue as just another roulette they can cherrypick is the problem and PF being a solution to a symptom.
The point of a "punishment" for dropping out being it would discourage that kind of people from queuing in the first place and leave only the people willing to put the full investment into whatever they got.

Also it could be said some effort could be made towards emphasizing how much of a difficulty curve an EX (at synch) is and an acknowledgement that PF exists so that people who are not of the sort to prep, could use other avenues. It is not entirely the people "abusing" the mentor roulettes fault but they aren't using the system as intended, just within functionality.

It’s no small comfort no matter what people say someone “should” do on the forums, they’re powerless to stop anyone from dropping a duty.

Why are we including duties that discourage the majority of mentors from using it, especially when the accepted way to handle EX fights is through PF.
I would love to use mentor rolo but the fear of a tank with a shire axe in Tsukuyomi EX is real, its not just hard to drag 7 sprouts through EX content is nigh impossible.
let me join content where I can be useful, where I know it's not an impossible situation to win.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

The point of a "punishment" for dropping out being it would discourage that kind of people from queuing in the first place and leave only the people willing to put the full investment into whatever they got.

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So instead of actually having mentors able to join and teach a hard mode dungeon, your solution is to leave it to sprouts who could have done with a mentor, but your expectations are so high they get nothing instead. There's other content that needs mentoring other than the handful of Ex trials you know.

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

So instead of actually having mentors able to join and teach a hard mode dungeon, your solution is to leave it to sprouts who could have done with a mentor, but your expectations are so high they get nothing instead. There's other content that needs mentoring other than the handful of Ex trials you know.

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No my solution is to have people who actually want to only help and don't care about time expediency or rewards in the mentor roulettes. Whether it would actually work has yet to be seen because we have a population going into that queue who regularly hamstrings any attempts at it. There IS more things that need mentoring and I would suggest possibly splitting the queue would be fine, but nobody here is suggesting that, they just want to remove it so they can get their mentor run done which is a little telling about their motivations and objectives.

There is a population willing to put in time for new players, but the mentor population is not representative of them because it's full of people who unlocked it for the resources and the prizes.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

No my solution is to have people who actually want to only help and don't care about time expediency or rewards in the mentor roulettes. Whether it would actually work has yet to be seen because we have a population going into that queue who regularly hamstrings any attempts at it. There IS more things that need mentoring and I would suggest possibly splitting the queue would be fine, but nobody here is suggesting that, they just want to remove it so they can get their mentor run done which is a little telling about their motivations and objectives.

There is a population willing to put in time for new players, but the mentor population is not representative of them because it's full of people who unlocked it for the resources and the prizes.

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You are not listening.

let's try framing this a different way.

How many parties clear an ex fight from their first lockout through PF with the following:
- players with experience
- players who are properly gear for the encounter
- who speak the same language
- who are willing to make the effort

I'm willing to bet it's still pretty low outside of statics.

With an EX from a mentor rolo you are lucky if maybe a few players have some of these. you can assess the situation and see the odds are so low it isn't worth your time. sadly that prevents me from going into situations I know I can help players because I know I can end up with an impossible situation.
I don't care about the mount or the time it takes I just don't want to waste a 1h 30mins in a futile situation.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

There IS more things that need mentoring and I would suggest possibly splitting the queue would be fine, but nobody here is suggesting that.

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Yes they are, on this thread and in other threads. Ex Trials should be on their own roulette.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

You are not listening.

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I am actually hearing a lot of things people aren't saying but they definitely want to.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

let's try framing this a different way.

How many parties clear an ex fight from their first lockout through PF with the following:
- players with experience
- players who are properly gear for the encounter
- who speak the same language
- who are willing to make the effort

I'm willing to bet it's still pretty low outside of statics.

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Yahuh. so you're already have the attitude that clearing is the most important thing and not teaching. While I can understand that from a progression point of view, not clearing an instance isn't the worst thing in the world. You don't like the chances? Don't queue.

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Originally Posted by Mosha

With an EX from a mentor rolo you are lucky if maybe a few players have some of these. you can assess the situation and see the odds are so low it isn't worth your time. sadly that prevents me from going into situations I know I can help players because I know I can end up with an impossible situation.
I don't care about the mount or the time it takes I just don't want to waste a 1h 30mins in a futile situation.

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Then don't queue. I'm beginning to think you aren't listening either. Don't.. queue... if you don't want to do it or feel it's "a futile situation".

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Originally Posted by MrMagic

Yes they are, on this thread and in other threads. Ex Trials should be on their own roulette.

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Yeah.. apart from the mentor program. It should be part of the reqs for the "prize"

Having a separate roulette for extremes and just removing them from the mentor roulette have the same outcome. No one will clear them, no one will get the rewards and all you're doing is telling unprepared players what provoke is and that they won't clear it unless they stop ignoring mechanics. Because that's how it usually goes in the DF.

There are a few exceptions among ARR primals but you can already choose 5 and queue for them just to teach people until the timer runs out. Roulettes are for rewards, you get the reward when you clear and if you aren't going to clear then what is the roulette for?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Then don't queue. I'm beginning to think you aren't listening either. Don't.. queue... if you don't want to do it or feel it's "a futile situation".

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What an absolute load of crap. Who are you even to tell other people what they can and can't do in this game? Mentor's should stick it out if they queue roulette, but the rules are such that they can leave with a penalty if they choose. Just like people should use PF to do extreme trials, but the rules are such that they can queue if they choose. Your reasons to use mentor roulette are not everyone's reasons, your reason's to play this game are not everyone's reasons, and your insistence on trying to dictate what others should do with their time and leisure is frankly embarrassing.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

What an absolute load of crap. Who are you even to tell other people what they can and can't do in this game?

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Someone with an opinion like everyone else in this thread who has their own about how to use a queue. They are just as guilty with their recommendations to "go use PF" and then dipping out.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Mentor's should stick it out if they queue roulette, but the rules are such that they can leave with a penalty if they choose. Just like people should use PF to do extreme trials, but the rules are such that they can queue if they choose. Your reasons to use mentor roulette are not everyone's reasons, your reason's to play this game are not everyone's reasons, and your insistence on trying to dictate what others should do with their time and leisure is frankly embarrassing.

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My "insistence" is merely observations about how the queue was made, speculation on reasons for the inclusion of the EX's and noticing that the one of the same problems with the 2 instance roulette, MSQ, is here. People queuing and then ditching when they don't get what they want from what is supposed to be a reward for submitting to random chance.

As Van Arn so very much likes to point out though, I have little to no actual influence over anything and have no delusions of being some sort of dictator as you state. However I like to point out that the roulette's purpose is being completely ignored by people who just want rewards or a complete RNG thing to pass time.

I am a player just like you and your embarrassment at someone else making observations that make people uncomfortable with the implications is your own problem.

Honestly I wouldn't mind ex trials in mentor if I was garneted 2 to 3 more mentors with me...I can never remember every mechanic and sometimes you need just a touch more carry help through them. Some people are willing to try but there's been time I'm literally repeating myself onto death ears. I just want the mount to be honest, would it be worth to have solo mentor queue which is dungeons basic raids and trials etc then a party mentor which is extremes so you can go in with 2 or 3 other mentors and actually help? Let the extreme one count double or something towards the mount as incentive cause atm there is no incentive to stay 1 hour dying to and extreme trial when you can take the penalty do something else for 30 mins and try later and get a guild heist

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

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Again:
- Mentors are here to offer advice, not play the game for you. Personally when I run with other mentors, one in particular likes to say: "Oh you aren't using x skill, you might want to check your tooltips or watch a video afterwards on how all of your skills work."

Because here's the thing: By taking 10-20m to teach someone their rotation, you're literally holding up every single other person in the party as well. You're concerned about dead queues but not about wasting other people's time because "you" want a one-on-one tutoring session in content or expect one. You get where the one-sidedness you have keeps coming up? What is stopping you from looking up your rotation after the dungeon/trial/whatev (after a mentor says you should) and practicing on a dummy (there are public ones in the overworld) to get better with it? NOTHING.

In relation to your PF question that I already answered, it's up to me. Same as it would be up to you or any other person. If I wanted to do Ifrit Ex, yeah I would join the PF because they tend to be quicker and odds are would get other people who already cleared to make the process faster. If I didn't want to do Ifrit Ex, I would requeue and re-evaluate from there. As I said already, if the group is willing to listen and actively work to take my advice, I will be more than happy to stay and teach. I just don't waste my time on groups who literally can't get it together or scream at me for trying to help. If I was getting paid, I would stay there for hours regardless of that fact.

I'd like to also say that teaching does not equal hand-holding/playing the game for you. In school, your teacher explains the concept of how to do something and gives examples to back up that foundation. In the case of an Ex trial (since you're basing it on that), this would be explaining mechanics and then having the group pull to get a physical example of what is being said. This is also the period for students to ask questions on the material being taught in case they are confused. After the lesson, the teacher usually assigns homework for the student to do to help reinforce everything they learned during the lesson (If no clear, this would be the mentor telling the people having issues to continue watching videos on the run or skills guides if they're having issues with their rotation). No-where in that process does it say that the teacher stops the entire class to teach one person something entirely specific (a.k.a. rotation) to them for 10-20m+ and delay the time they have available to teach (since things are timed in FF and people do leave after it ends). Usually they offer to have that student come after class for extra tutoring (and I do know of mentors who have offered/had sprouts reach out to ask them questions/have them mentor them one-on-one AFTER the dungeon/trial/raid/whatever).

Again, you're expecting people to stop everything for you to teach you something entirely specific to you during content that everyone else is also dedicating time to. I'm not going to turn it into Monk 101 (just as an example) and make everyone else sit through it and wait till the person knows their rotation. I'm going to direct them to a skills guide or a photo of their opener/rotation and get back to the point of why we're all there: to clear the content.

This whole argument of I don’t want people wasting my time is hilarious, as they leave and waste 7 other people’s time. If you don’t want your time wasted, mentor roulette, and possibly even video games in general, isn’t for you.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Someone with an opinion like everyone else in this thread who has their own about how to use a queue. They are just as guilty with their recommendations to "go use PF" and then dipping out.

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Not like everyone else... You're arguing against literal facts...

Fact: If someone queues for a mentor roulette and decides for any reason after entering that they don't want to participate they incur a penalty of 30 minutes and a strike.

Your opinion: If someone queues for a mentor roulette and decides for any reason after entering that they don't want to participate they should avoid mentor roulette altogether.

This is you trying to tell others how to play the game when the facts clearly state that they don't have to. If "trying to dictate" is offending your delicate sensibilities I can call it something else.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

This whole argument of I don’t want people wasting my time is hilarious, as they leave and waste 7 other people’s time. If you don’t want your time wasted, mentor roulette, and possibly even video games in general, isn’t for you.

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I mean you were already wasting your time by queuing for an EX in DF.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Not like everyone else... You're arguing against literal facts...

Fact: If someone queues for a mentor roulette and decides for any reason after entering that they don't want to participate they incur a penalty of 30 minutes and a strike.

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The opinion being that this is the proper use of the queue. If someone thinks this is the correct way that is their opinion. I'm not arguing that people aren't doing this or this isn't what is happening.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

Your opinion: If someone queues for a mentor roulette and decides for any reason after entering that they don't want to participate they should avoid mentor roulette altogether.

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My opinion is that if you go INTO the roulette with the attitude that if you get something you don't want you're going to leave, which is what is happening, you shouldn't queue in the first place. Don't queue if you're not willing to do it all.

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Originally Posted by BigHoffie

This is you trying to tell others how to play the game when the facts clearly state that they don't have to. If "trying to dictate" is offending your delicate sensibilities I can call it something else.

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This is my telling others how I view the queue and why I think their particular methodology for even taking a roulette while cherrypicking which part of it they get goes against the basic idea of the mentor program. It's blatantly obvious people who do this already have convinced themselves it's fine.
These people are also telling others how to play the game: "Go use partyfinder." "don't queue EX in DF" "go research first"... so since you've chosen me to attack me, and attack you are with your initial hostile language instead of a discussion like even those who are opposed to my opinion are doing, I can only assume you're just here to push your own preferred use of the queue since you've left them alone.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

TMy opinion is that if you go INTO the roulette with the attitude that if you get something you don't want you're going to leave, which is what is happening, you shouldn't queue in the first place. Don't queue if you're not willing to do it all.

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Why do people have to stay and help people that don't want to be helped?

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

Why do people have to stay and help people that don't want to be helped?

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That has never been my position. If you truly have a party full of people who simply wish to ignore all advice and continue to be a detriment they should be vote kicked or if in the majority you should ask yourself to be votekicked.
The problem is when you don't even give them a chance to prove they want to learn by auto-popping out as soon as you see a "hard" instance. I'm not asking people to be a martyr, but overall the position here seems like people don't even want to try yet they want the benefits or resource of the mentor queue to conform to their needs rather than who it was made for.

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

This whole argument of I don’t want people wasting my time is hilarious, as they leave and waste 7 other people’s time. If you don’t want your time wasted, mentor roulette, and possibly even video games in general, isn’t for you.

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Video game = wasted time isn't a good argument btw. Entertainment isn't wasted time, it's necessary and healthy.

It becomes wasted time when players make the game annoying to play for others and instances take a lot longer than necessary by disregarding their party members and knowingly half-assing their job or not listening.

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Originally Posted by Baxcel

5)you didn't answer my last question.. if your not going to teach new players rotations or mechincs or anything that might take more then 20mim of your time.. what are you getting out of being a mentor? What are you a mentor for if your not mentoring new players.?

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if i have to teach you have to 1 2 3 you shouldnt be in an EX trial in the first place

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Originally Posted by HestiaOmori

if i have to teach you have to 1 2 3 you shouldnt be in an EX trial in the first place

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Yeah...if someone asks me for rotation advice, I will do what I can, but ultimately I'd probably point them in the direction of Youtube for one of the many job guides available there. Heck, I do that for myself as needed. I'm not great at explaining these things, and I don't want to lead someone astray because of that. For me, the most responsible thing I can do is to send them somewhere that CAN help them and probably do a better job. I realize that "watch a vid" or "read a guide" are almost meme material nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's a wrong thing to suggest.

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Originally Posted by HestiaOmori

if i have to teach you have to 1 2 3 you shouldnt be in an EX trial in the first place

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I'm not even talking about teaching them in an EX.. people in this thread and many others have straight out said they won't teach spouts about the job.. they won't help them learn their classes at all.. some have said that they will straight up kick spouts from the dungeon because it will slow down their clear.. so no I'm not saying teach them in a trail.. I talking about teaching in general

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

For me, the most responsible thing I can do is to send them somewhere that CAN help them and probably do a better job. I realize that "watch a vid" or "read a guide" are almost meme material nowadays, but that doesn't mean it's a wrong thing to suggest.

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I have a similar approach. I tell them that they will find better parties in PF and that watching a guide beforehand is more efficient than having someone explain it to them while the timer is ticking. Blind runs are fine but if you want the tips it's better to just watch a detailed recording. I link a text guide they can read afterwards if they want, and copy paste some key mechanics in the chat. They don't read it but it's there.

People who complain about "go read a guide" being lazy have forgotten that it's better to teach a man how to fish. The next time he is hungry he won't need handouts to feed himself.

Im fine with getting ex in mentor roulette, so long as the party is willing to listen anyway.

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Originally Posted by Toonie

Im fine with getting ex in mentor roulette, so long as the party is willing to listen anyway.

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If they’re in df for an ex, the chances are they’ve already bombed that test before you loaded in.

On one hand you have sprouts in normal and hard mode dungeons to help out but you want to limit Mentor availability with this "don't queue if you won't teach Ex" attitude.

On the other you have sprouts wanting to challenge themselves or don't know what they are queing for or want to force Mentors into a learning party rather than use PF and have them join willingly. If you are ready and able to do Ex, you need less help than the players staring out in the game.

Any idea that punishes the sprouts just to punish the Mentors, or punishes every other sprout just to help out those DF Ex sprouts is being selfish IMO. The system is fine as it is and if mentors dont want to mentor Ex in the Mentor queue then that is fine by me. It's not like the sprout wont get help if advised to use PF for learning parties, including from Mentors. If they dont want to take that advice then so be it. Dont expect 100% of people to stick around if DF is how you queue for those, Mentor or no.

Should the rewards change or the system change? Probably, probably not. Mentors that never intended to mentor in any duty are bad but some of these ideas cast a net on all the mentors including those who genuinely help players regularly. Kudos to the Mentors that have a go with teaching Ex in DF. I do wish there were more willing to try but I'd rather not get rid of you if that's where you draw the line.

This thread has turned into a discussion on bad mentors and that's fine, my response is just to the OP and others suggesting increased lockouts, "don't queue" and the like for the current Mentor roulette. My favourite is the one where you are kicked from being a Mentor for 6 months for not doing synced Ex in DF. You probably teach synced Ex in PF but we're going to kick you anyway.

Eh just going to be real with you.

The instant facepulling sprout tank is not ready for an extreme trial. And when they do that 10 times without reading chat I will first attempt to kick them. And if that doesn't work I'll do something else.

As a mentor healer I have a bit more control over how well the group does but otherwise it's not very feasible to carry a group singlehanded as a mentor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I mean you were already wasting your time by queuing for an EX in DF.

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No, I queued for mentor, and expect to get ex roulettes, because that’s part of the requirement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ariel_Valmont

No, I queued for mentor, and expect to get ex roulettes, because that’s part of the requirement.

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Not a good idea to set arbitrary requirements when the factual requirements exist, namely being:

Be a mentor
Have mentor queue unlocked

Everything past that doesn't have a requirement outside pressing the queue button and not afking, it's up to mentors to do things by a case by case basis and if they're operating on a "I want to complete this dungeon" or a "Well this dungeon is 1h and the leaver's punishment is 30m so~" it's pretty reasonable to expect them to leave old EX trials people clearly aren't ready for and probably won't clear and in terms of msq roulette it should've never been put in mentor roulette but at least those leaving mentors helped fill the queue.