Locking dyable artifact gear behind a extreme trial, good idea?

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Yes but that was raid glamor not your basic job gear, this is an unfortunate first.

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It's not a first HW AF gear was locked behind a savage fight.

I like this relic step it’s way better than eureka or fate grind RNG. The only thing I hate about this relic step is having to count on others to know the extreme fight. I joined a random Raid Finder group that managed to clear at the last second. This group of individuals learned from their mistakes and with each failure we progressed to clear. The final run had 20min left and half the group was dead in phase 2. The healers kept raising. I’m glad we didn’t abandon because unknown to us 30 minute later we would clear. I was happy that the developers made this fight more forgiving to death.

Usually I’m in groups where people quit after 2 or 3 fails. If everyone sticks with it to the 20 minute mark there’s a higher chance of clearing if progress is made after each death.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Yes but that was raid glamor not your basic job gear, this is an unfortunate first.

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EX Trial is not a first precedent tho. There was a HW AF gear locked behind Savage (hey Pepsiman). They added opportunity to buy upgrading items for Alliance coins later, yes, but at first it was locked behind one of the hardest battles in the game that were present at that time.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

people are willing to git gud to beat content they want to do not for content they are forced to do.



Doing something you like and/or with friends =/= something you don't like with strangers.

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...You're not exactly forced to do this content?

And it's not like you can't do this with your friends either.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

It's not a first HW AF gear was locked behind a savage fight.

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It was... for like a few weeks....

You could get dyable gear as soon as Void Ark came out. There's nothing at the moment to indicate that dyable artifact gear will be available outside the savage fight this time around.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

It was... for like a few weeks....

You could get dyable gear as soon as Void Ark came out. There's nothing at the moment to indicate that dyable artifact gear will be available outside the savage fight this time around.

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Void ark released almost 6 months later.


A bit more than "a few weeks"


Also, the extreme fight is not anywhere close to savage level.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

....Also, the extreme fight is not anywhere close to savage level.

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This sentiment is the one that needs to be stressed. Its not even EX levels of EX. You can literally get a few stacks of vulns and still survive mechanics. What weve been seeing with EX and Savage is that more than 1 stack of vuln can be nearly fatal with Savage and EX content when it's current, yet here it's get 2-3 stacks and still be fine so long as a tank uses reprisal or something. There is only 2 mechanics that will outright wipe your group and theyre very lenient. You can have 5 or 6 deaths and not DPS LB and not even see the enrage if youre a decent group. We're not talking people whove cleared e8s and are ilvl 49X or something. 475-480 gear is more than sufficient to beat this. They even give you a 485 weapon before you even jump in. Literally hand you one.

This is content virtually anyone can do. It seems super hard and complex at a distance, but you get into it and practice, you realize it's not to hard. It's probably more memorization than the average EX, but it is very doable.

To be frank, my advice to those who desperately want the dyeable job gear is to network with friends and free companies and the variety of fellowships in game and discords you can find to try and clear the content. The fight itself is not very hard, just needs to be learned, as anything else does. The dps check is rather lenient. If you are worried about potential toxicity (grossly overstated), there are a variety of discords specifically for teaching people who want to get the rewards from midcore and hardcore content.

Worst comes to worst, you can always get the glamour next expansion when the fight can be done unsynced. That's what plenty of people who are unable to raid or uncomfortable with it do to get glamour pieces from Alexander and Omega savage.

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Originally Posted by Infindox

The trial is fun, but I dont understand WHY they did this? There's no reason. The gear is 480; anyone who cares about gear atm is already at 480 from Eden, crafted gear, or they are higher then that. The casual players who do the relic stuff for glamour don't do ex, and this is pretty challenging for players who don't usually do extremes. There's no incentive past beating it once to even do it again if you don't care about the gear (except like a TT card...).
I'd be fine with them locking it behind a trial like this if the gear was, say, 485. But it's not.

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This.
I'm on-board with the side of "this isn't okay just to get glamour gear," and I'm definitely not what anyone'd consider as casual.
I'm just burned out at this point. The gear isn't anything but glamour at this point, so what even was the rationale behind locking glamour gear behind an EX trial that, once you get what you want out of it, there's no incentive to even do it any more? It'll end up like BLU content where if you miss out during the initial rush good luck ever getting a consistent group to do it down the road.
Aside from that why is it just the armor? I was wanting to dye the GNB AF4 Lionheart, but nope.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

...You're not exactly forced to do this content?

And it's not like you can't do this with your friends either.

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Unless I'm missing something you can't get it without doing EX.

I don't care about the AF myself, I do cosplay character with level 1 gear and usable by all jobs.

But just because its not my problem doesn't mean I cant understand there is people who have different tastes and their friends if they have some might not be interested in doing that content.

Good for you if you like EX and your friends too but please understand not everybody share your experience.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

This.
The gear isn't anything but glamour at this point, so what even was the rationale behind locking glamour gear behind an EX trial that, once you get what you want out of it, there's no incentive to even do it any more? It'll end up like BLU content where if you miss out during the initial rush good luck ever getting a consistent group to do it down the road.

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Literally the incentive is the rewards, there is nothing else after that. That is basically every battle content in this game.
The AF could be quick and cheap catch-up gear for people who are new or are gearing up their alts. It also has 5 materia slots which could be useful. It's not entirely useless to just brush it off as only for glamour.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

Unless I'm missing something you can't get it without doing EX.

I don't care about the AF myself, I do cosplay character with level 1 gear and usable by all jobs.

But just because its not my problem doesn't mean I cant understand there is people who have different tastes and their friends if they have some might not be interested in doing that content.

Good for you if you like EX and your friends too but please understand not everybody share your experience.

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Obviously. If you want something, you do what's required to get it. There is no "missing" here, you're more than welcome to do it or not, and it will be available indefinitely. Again, you're not being forced to do it.

Yes it's pretty unfortunate that there's no other, no "easier" way to get it, but not everything in this game is catered towards everyone either.

Stupid question, but do you have to run the trial on the job you want the gear for? :X

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Stupid question, but do you have to run the trial on the job you want the gear for? :X

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Nope. The trial drops coffers to roll on and you just need to swap to the job you want the piece for when you open it. It also drops totems which you can exchange for coffers in mor dhona.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Nope. The trial drops coffers to roll on and you just need to swap to the job you want the piece for when you open it. It also drops totems which you can exchange for coffers in mor dhona.

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Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Literally the incentive is the rewards, there is nothing else after that. That is basically every battle content in this game.
The AF could be quick and cheap catch-up gear for people who are new or are gearing up their alts. It also has 5 materia slots which could be useful. It's not entirely useless to just brush it off as only for glamour.

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What's easier to do:
Farm an EX trial and pray to RNGesus for rolls, at a maximum of 10 runs to get the total number of totems for one job;
Buy crafted gear off the MB;
or run roulettes on a level 80 job and get AleTomes?

The incentive is stupid because the reward is A) Invalidated gear-score wise already by existing gear, and B) it's more work than the other methods of getting equivalent or better gear.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

No, back when the first step was fresh, titan hm was a wall to most people. Heck, people couldn't even get ifrit down without mage lb3 and a PLD dedicated to stuns.

If you weren't around then you wouldn't understand. The first content sales were not raids. They were titan hard lol.
There was a strat of auto attacking titan for the first bit of the fight just to build up the lb gauge.

I'd wager titan hm back then was harder than this ex trial is now.

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I know what you're talking about, since I remember trying to get the relic+1 back in the day was a pissed experience for the elemental trial, that's why FCs back then tried to organize runs weekly for member to get through it.

But tbf, one of the reason why titan was hard because the server latency was really poor, you basically had to predict and move early in order to get out in time. Ever since they improve the server response time titan feels almost like slow motion now.

Then there is issue of the player base's skill level. I main a PLD at the time and got raged often by others (usually the DPS) for not interrupting 'every single eruption', despite I told I can only do 2 - 3 times before he's immune. That's basically the mindset of relic players at the time: carry me or you suck! When I told my FC this, the more ... respectable players (skill wise) just laughed and said "tell them to learn how to dodge or GTFO, it's not the tank job to carry them".

I know people tend to meme about how the games become more casual/easier, but that's just confirmation bias. If anything bot the difficulty and the floor skill level of the players had increased greatly over years, as long as you don't wear a rose tinted nostalgia class when looking at the past.

4 days of trying and nothing but very low dps groups and deaths to one shot mechanics... if I can’t get a clear by this weekend I’m done with it. The stress of it all is too much... I want the glam but not at the expense of my health.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

What's easier to do:
Farm an EX trial and pray to RNGesus for rolls, at a maximum of 10 runs to get the total number of totems for one job;
Buy crafted gear off the MB;
or run roulettes on a level 80 job and get AleTomes?

The incentive is stupid because the reward is A) Invalidated gear-score wise already by existing gear, and B) it's more work than the other methods of getting equivalent or better gear.

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Tomestone gear takes a while because of the weekly limit. Same with doing Eden normal right now.
Buying the crafted gear is the easiest...if you are a crafter/gatherer who can craft it or get it crafted. And yes if you have the gil to buy it from the marketboard.

Doing the EX trial could be more work, or it could save you more time, but it still has tomes as a fail-safe so even if your RNG is bad, you'll still have the chance to get something, plus you need 19 runs to get the complete set if you get nothing. It's still a good alternative as catch-up or alt gear. The item level is still decently high with 5 materia slots. So I really don't see how the incentive is "stupid".

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Tomestone gear takes a while because of the weekly limit. Same with doing Eden normal right now.
Buying the crafted gear is the easiest...if you are a crafter/gatherer who can craft it or get it crafted. And yes if you have the gil to buy it from the marketboard.

Doing the EX trial could be more work, or it could save you more time, but it still has tomes as a fail-safe so even if your RNG is bad, you'll still have the chance to get something, plus you need 19 runs to get the complete set if you get nothing. It's still a good alternative as catch-up or alt gear. The item level is still decently high with 5 materia slots. So I really don't see how the incentive is "stupid".

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But you're not disproving my argument at all.
Just because tome gear takes *longer* to get only makes it more time consuming, which is a variable that can't be fully taken into account because you never know who you wind up with in DF. Just like how you cant always control who you get in PF unless you have a preformed group.
And correcting me by saying you'll need 19 runs of the EX just proves my case even more, because I was not aware of that number of runs.
Jesus, that's awful.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

This.
I'm on-board with the side of "this isn't okay just to get glamour gear," and I'm definitely not what anyone'd consider as casual.
I'm just burned out at this point. The gear isn't anything but glamour at this point, so what even was the rationale behind locking glamour gear behind an EX trial that, once you get what you want out of it, there's no incentive to even do it any more? It'll end up like BLU content where if you miss out during the initial rush good luck ever getting a consistent group to do it down the road.
Aside from that why is it just the armor? I was wanting to dye the GNB AF4 Lionheart, but nope.

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I suspect their aim was for it to hopefully take the more casual playerbase longer, thereby giving them more to do. We know the original 5.3 date was mid-June. That means this content was supposed to last through May at the very least.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

But you're not disproving my argument at all.
Just because tome gear takes *longer* to get only makes it more time consuming, which is a variable that can't be fully taken into account because you never know who you wind up with in DF. Just like how you cant always control who you get in PF unless you have a preformed group.
And correcting me by saying you'll need 19 runs of the EX just proves my case even more, because I was not aware of that number of runs.
Jesus, that's awful.

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Let's not joke around now. Capping your tomes is incredibly easy and has a multitude of ways to do so. The only thing that would keep people from capping them is if they have no time to play the game or if they don't have much time left to cap. You still need to wait weeks to get everything. Doing the EX trial is a luck-based and you can't exactly control the situation I agree, but it's not impossible to get an entire set in just one day.

19 runs is pretty bad I'll admit but I think that's how it goes with EX trials that give accessories? I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

Let's not joke around now. Capping your tomes is incredibly easy and has a multitude of ways to do so. The only thing that would keep people from capping them is if they have no time to play the game or if they don't have much time left to cap. You still need to wait weeks to get everything. Doing the EX trial is a luck-based and you can't exactly control the situation I agree, but it's not impossible to get an entire set in just one day.

19 runs is pretty bad I'll admit but I think that's how it goes with EX trials that give accessories? I'm not sure.

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Its ten runs. The EX trial gives two totems per clear. Plus it drops coffers to roll on as well.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Its ten runs. The EX trial gives two totems per clear. Plus it drops coffers to roll on as well.

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Oh that's actually better. Hmm, I should actually do it for myself when I have the time later.

The dropped gear is better then any other 480 stuff (Possible exception for the piety heavy healer pieces) that's available due to it having five materia slots, which means you get +300 extra secondary stats vs. the 180 on overmelded crafted gear.

It's harder to get, but a good option if you want to gear an alt job and don't play multiple jobs within the same role.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Dyeable gear has been locked behind savage for years, so I'm not sure what your point is.

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My point is that i think it's a bad design choice and they should stop doing it ? I thought my message was pretty clear.

Just because it's been the case for years doesn't mean it's a good idea.
I think it's one thing to lock a specific set of gear behind hardcore content, but locking the "dye" option behind it is just unfair for casual players in my opinion. You give them the exact same armor, but they can't dye it ? I mean, come on, this should not be a thing. I understand that SE don't have the time to come up with new sets for each hardcore content, but still they should look into other options.

And like i said in another thread, i love the Eden's Verse Gate armor, but just as i was ready to start savage, 5.2 came out, and now it's a real pain for me to find people to grind it.
So even for players who enjoy savage content like myself, this can be annoying.

Yes it's a good idea there are a lot of people who will try ex for the 1st time.

there's also a high chance that this will be dead content fast, since there is no mount and the gear is effectively just for glam.
Like most of my FC mates who regularly run ex trials already don't care about this after clearing it once

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

My point is that i think it's a bad design choice and they should stop doing it ? I thought my message was pretty clear.

Just because it's been the case for years doesn't mean it's a good idea.
I think it's one thing to lock a specific set of gear behind hardcore content, but locking the "dye" option behind it is just unfair for casual players in my opinion. You give them the exact same armor, but they can't dye it ? I mean, come on, this should not be a thing. I understand that SE don't have the time to come up with new sets for each hardcore content, but still they should look into other options.

And like i said in another thread, i love the Eden's Verse armor, but just as i was ready to start savage, 5.2 came out, and now it's a real pain for me to find people to grind it.
So even for players who enjoy savage content like myself, this can be annoying.

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If you want the gear but for whatever reason can't do the savage fight currently (or the EX in this case) you can always unsync the fight next expansion. I'm sorry if you feel it's unfair, but those who are doing harder content deserve rewards, too. Getting dyeable gear sooner is simply one of those rewards. There are plenty of other gear pieces easily obtainable in the meantime.

Also Eden's Verse came out in 5.2? You must mean the Eden's Gate armor, I assume, and I still see PFs for learning and clearing Titan and Leviathan daily. Sure, they aren't as plentiful as they were when the tier was current, but they still exist. Additionally, as I said in another posts there are fellowships and discords dedicated to getting people started and through savage and extreme fights and hardore/ midcore content in general.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

If you want the gear but for whatever reason can't do the savage fight currently (or the EX in this case) you can always unsync the fight next expansion. I'm sorry if you feel it's unfair, but those who are doing harder content deserve rewards, too. Getting dyeable gear sooner is simply one of those rewards. There are plenty of other gear pieces easily obtainable in the meantime.

Also Eden's Verse came out in 5.2? You must mean the Eden's Gate armor, I assume, and I still see PFs for learning and clearing Titan and Leviathan daily. Sure, they aren't as plentiful as they were when the tier was current, but they still exist. Additionally, as I said in another posts there are fellowships and discords dedicated to getting people started and through savage and extreme fights and hardore/ midcore content in general.

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It's not unfair for me personally since i'm currently doing the savage/extreme trials. I was saying it's unfair for those who don't want to do them at all.
Yeah you're right, i meant Eden's Gate, not Eden's Verse. And it's a real pain to find a party to do those nowadays.

I expected you to say that people can just wait until the next expansion to do the content unsynced, but that's not a real argument. Expansions come out about every two years. You're basically asking the whole casual community to wait for two years to get the dyeable version of gear they already own.

On the other hand, when some players asked to delay savage of 1~2 weeks at most, the hardcore raiders said they wanted the content right away, just because (see this thread for instance). I don't know your stance on this other topic, but whatever it is you have to realize that when the hardcore part of the community says they can't wait another week to start savage, telling the casuals that they should wait two years to get dyeable gear is quite the absurdity.

All in all, that's why i'm saying that there are other ways to reward hardcore players, without frustrating a whole chunk of the community (because just as you, i too think that players who clear difficult content should get exceptional rewards). All i want is for SE to explore those options.

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

It's not unfair for me personally since i'm currently doing the savage/extreme trials. I was saying it's unfair for those who don't want to do them at all.
Yeah you're right, i meant Eden's Gate, not Eden's Verse. And it's a real pain to find a party to do those nowadays.

I expected you to say that people can just wait until the next expansion to do the content unsynced, but that's not a real argument. Expansions come out about every two years. You're basically asking the whole casual community to wait for two years to get the dyeable version of gear they already own.

On the other hand, when some players asked to delay savage of 1~2 weeks at most, the hardcore raiders said they wanted the content right away, just because (see this thread for instance).

In the end, that's why i'm saying that there are other ways to reward hardcore players, without frustrating a whole chunk of the community (because just as you, i too think that players who clear difficult content should get exceptional rewards). All i want is for SE to explore those options.

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Then is it also unfair that someone who doesn't want to PvP can't get the Frontline wins Leader Coat? Or someone who doesn't like fashion report can't get the short-shorts from the vendor? You can get it if you just wait, is not an invalid argument. Like I said the part of the rewards for those doing savage as it is current is that they get that dyable glamour piece right away, if they so choose. Everyone else can get it later, easily. Just as with mounts and titles. The only exception is Ultimate titles and weapon glamours, as Ultimate fights cannot be done unsynced.

That thread had plenty of hardcore raiders in support for delaying savage for a week or two. In fact, most of the people in that thread period (in either position of the discussion) were savage raiders.

I not surprise they did this first people complain about make artifact armour behind crafting then they doing as way get for hunt people complain about this then it was euqera people complain about this. sometime one who complain should hold they tongue because it may be not what they wish it. personality think they give you use tome to get it aswell hunt. that me personality

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Originally Posted by Kraniel

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That's the point. Nobody or rare people complain when Extrems get mounts or glowing weapon. People know how it works and it's not unfair (and we are still able to get the glamour later). Only few people complain that Savage get mount and dyable gear. Specific reward for specific content... that's fine.

The problem with the current AF is it comes halfway. The fact problem here is less due to the fact it is locked, it is it was not previsible, especially after Eureka and even more considering how Ex usually work : specific weapon and mount (even thought we can get them "for free" the next extension with "special" mog or soloing content when overstuffed -fight with a jail excepted-).

In fact I'm less disappointed by the lock than I'm bothered by the precedent they are creating with this weird EX reward. Because most people who don't do Ex will even less do an Ex for just a glamour (most of time, only one piece is interesting and we can find something to replace). And if it should happen the AF gear upgrade as the weapon, people who don't do Ex or Savage/Ultimate have no use of such upgraded gear since the tome/alliance/normal raid ones are more than enough.

At first I saw what was required and thought "yeah, I'll have this cleared in a couple days and farmed after that". So I went and joined learning party after learning party, clear party after clear party, and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply a waste of my time.

I want my GNB set badly, and perhaps I will get it eventually. But that won't be right now, not while all the...unique individuals who can't seem to get past phase 1 in a clear party are trying to clear too. I will revisit this later. I know my stuff, but sadly it seems as though almost no one else does.

My opinion on the matter overall is that this was a really questionable decision on the dev's part. I had every intention of doing this, but...I value what sanity I have more. I hope that they add another way to obtain it in the future. Guess I'll be taking my break from the game after all. My sub money will go towards PSO2 stuff I guess. If your plan was to beat all my willpower out of me, SE, then you have succeeded with flying colors. But thanks for the relic weapon I guess!

Edit: As an aside, yes, I am rather salty. I'm fully aware of that. But it took a lot for me to get to this point. I wanted to take a break from the game for a few days before finally posting about this, so that it wasn't 150% more salt when I did.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

At first I saw what was required and thought "yeah, I'll have this cleared in a couple days and farmed after that". So I went and joined learning party after learning party, clear party after clear party, and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply a waste of my time.

I want my GNB set badly, and perhaps I will get it eventually. But that won't be right now, not while all the...unique individuals who can't seem to get past phase 1 in a clear party are trying to clear too. I will revisit this later. I know my stuff, but sadly it seems as though almost no one else does.

My opinion on the matter overall is that this was a really questionable decision on the dev's part. I had every intention of doing this, but...I value what sanity I have more. I hope that they add another way to obtain it in the future. Guess I'll be taking my break from the game after all. My sub money will go towards PSO2 stuff I guess. If your plan was to beat all my willpower out of me, SE, then you have succeeded with flying colors. But thanks for the relic weapon I guess!

Edit: As an aside, yes, I am rather salty. I'm fully aware of that. But it took a lot for me to get to this point. I wanted to take a break from the game for a few days before finally posting about this, so that it wasn't 150% more salt when I did.

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PF was never good with non-telegraphed mechanics. To be expected.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Then is it also unfair that someone who doesn't want to PvP can't get the Frontline wins Leader Coat? Or someone who doesn't like fashion report can't get the short-shorts from the vendor? You can get it if you just wait, is not an invalid argument. Like I said the part of the rewards for those doing savage as it is current is that they get that dyable glamour piece right away, if they so choose. Everyone else can get it later, easily. Just as with mounts and titles. The only exception is Ultimate titles and weapon glamours, as Ultimate fights cannot be done unsynced.

That thread had plenty of hardcore raiders in support for delaying savage for a week or two. In fact, most of the people in that thread period (in either position of the discussion) were savage raiders.

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No, i don't think that's unfair. If you remember my previous post, i clearly said that i think locking a whole different set of gear behind hardcore content is another story.

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Originally Posted by Eldevern

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Which allows me to reply to you as well, because i agree with what both of you said, and that was not my point.
I'm fine with specific sets of gear, mounts, and weapons being locked behind hardcore content. In fact i think it makes complete sense. What i think is a bad design choice is specifically the concept of locking the "dye" option of pre-existing gear behind it. This should not be a thing and honestly, the only reason it is, is most likely because of time constraints on SE side.

And i also agree with the fact that another part of the community will even find it less motivating to do extreme content if the only reward is dyeable gear.

Like i said, i am convinced there are other options that can be explored when it comes to hardcore content rewards. In the end, the only thing that matters is that hardcore players still feel rewarded for what they do, while the others have the ability to dye gear they already own.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Edit: As an aside, yes, I am rather salty. I'm fully aware of that. But it took a lot for me to get to this point. I wanted to take a break from the game for a few days before finally posting about this, so that it wasn't 150% more salt when I did.

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Lol I feel you on this. I had fantastic luck with progging parties but as soon as I put “clear” in my PF people came out of the woodwork who had never even stepped in there before, lied about it, and then failed every mechanic in phase one like they thought nobody would be able to tell...it was my first ever total disband and I had to decompress with some Animal Crossing.

I did end up clearing the next evening, but only after getting a party together of 7/8 FC membs and a great tank from PF. I hope you can come back eventually and get your gear. The GNB set is really awesome!

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

At first I saw what was required and thought "yeah, I'll have this cleared in a couple days and farmed after that". So I went and joined learning party after learning party, clear party after clear party, and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply a waste of my time.

I want my GNB set badly, and perhaps I will get it eventually. But that won't be right now, not while all the...unique individuals who can't seem to get past phase 1 in a clear party are trying to clear too. I will revisit this later. I know my stuff, but sadly it seems as though almost no one else does.

My opinion on the matter overall is that this was a really questionable decision on the dev's part. I had every intention of doing this, but...I value what sanity I have more. I hope that they add another way to obtain it in the future. Guess I'll be taking my break from the game after all. My sub money will go towards PSO2 stuff I guess. If your plan was to beat all my willpower out of me, SE, then you have succeeded with flying colors. But thanks for the relic weapon I guess!

Edit: As an aside, yes, I am rather salty. I'm fully aware of that. But it took a lot for me to get to this point. I wanted to take a break from the game for a few days before finally posting about this, so that it wasn't 150% more salt when I did.

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i really dont blame you my alt is on same DC and it was much more of a hassle to clear than it was on my main i never saw enrage till i did it on my alt

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

At first I saw what was required and thought "yeah, I'll have this cleared in a couple days and farmed after that". So I went and joined learning party after learning party, clear party after clear party, and I have come to the conclusion that it is simply a waste of my time.

I want my GNB set badly, and perhaps I will get it eventually. But that won't be right now, not while all the...unique individuals who can't seem to get past phase 1 in a clear party are trying to clear too. I will revisit this later. I know my stuff, but sadly it seems as though almost no one else does.

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And this is exactly the problem that SE created with putting something like dyable artifact gear behind an extreme fight. Those with a static will just do it like always and might not even find it that hard. They will be done with it fast and if nobody wants the gear they have no reason to farm it.

Those ex players that try it without a static will have a harder time..because now you will have more of the casual players in there that simply might not be good enough but are kinda forced if they want it. This will be bad for those hardcore raiders because like you they might lose their sanity with that. And for everyone else they will just fail again and again, might not learn much and then cant clear it and if its death content after a while wont even get the price..which in turn might turn away more people from ever trying harder stuff again.

The relic stuff, be it weapon or gear were meant as an alternative for non high end raiders. That way you could gear up without the need to run savage. It's akin to tomestone gear. You have access to some of it and with time can even upgrade them by running more casual content. The issue seems to be that the idea of casual content for many seems different from that of SE. 24-man is casual content, ex trials are the top level of casual content. This time around SE went with the ex trial. It's about average on the difficulty level, literally only spread / stack mechanics coupled with one of 3 other mechanics.
It's true that everything is un-telegraphed which might make it a little more tedious but the dps check is so lenient that you can afford a lot of screwups. There is some precedence here as previous relics had you going into things like sophia and sephiroth which, on normal mode and at the ilvls at the time, weren't exactly simple either (though admittedly not this difficult).

This time around the weapon is a 30mn investment so they made the gear the time sink and grind.
Unless you're fighting with severe anxiety this ex is just a time sink, you go at it until you learn the fight, then you farm it. Even with terrible PF luck I guarantee you you'll spend fewer hours getting it than any of the relic steps from past iterations. So just treat it as a simple grind.

@Ea: And this is already a problem. You think that Ex trials are still casual, but in my opinion (for example) they are not. Anything that needs a party with plans (and training or/and guide) is not casual anymore.