Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

The conversation between the two of you is obviously going beyond my personal situation, so I won't wade in. Other than to say:

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Willful ignorance is not a good excuse.

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It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

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....That's the definition of ignorance.

...But not the definition of wilful. I'd have to know I was ignorant. You can be ignorant without being wilful; the wilful is an assumption on your part. You can assume all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

The point is... Houses should be infinite, like in most of the games. If Square is incapable of providing unlimited houses for whatever reason, that is their problem, not customer problem.

Players shouldn't be expected to read patch notes or to watch live letters in Japanese (which is another crazy thing, why can't live letters have an english version when probably more than a half of their player base doesn't understand Japanese? Put Koji Fox to make the english version, he is charismatic), if we need to keep up with their limitations at least make it more clear, put a visible message inside the game to warn about the house.

A house been demolished shouldn't be a normal thing, its cool for ppl that doesn't have a house but for the customer that is losing a house it'll become one more reason for possibly giving up on the game and I believe that as a company Square doesn't want that, they want to keep up the magic, like Disney, to make him want to come to this world more times and bring his friends too and not create a bunch of hindrances to see how much the customer can keep up with before leaving.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

No, I never directly even stated that I was solely against other notifications directly, you all dogpiled on me and made assumption after assumption that that's what I'm talking about. I am against everyone making excuse after excuse for the OP and absolving him of the partial blame that goes directly into not managing his house better or making the rulers and demolition timer more known to himself after five years.

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Okay but when I was on about sprouts getting pop-ups about demolition you showed no sign of even thinking that maybe the tutorial on how demolition works is grossly mistimed. Instead you kept harping on about how housing in this game is like a mortgage in real life and people should be more responsible.

I argue that people can't be more responsible about something if they're not even aware that there is any responsibility attached. Heck a mortgage is paying for a house bit by bit. In this game you pay all the money at once. Of course people tend to assume once they have the house it belongs to them forever. That's how it works in real life if you pay the entire price of the house.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

And this is where I keep getting frustrated because some of you are making excuse after excuse for the OP that the blame should be placed solely on SE when it's also the person's own negligence and fault that it happened as well. It takes less than five minutes to Google "XIV Housing" and come up with these.

https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/ This mentions Auto-Demolition at least, not in full detail, but hey, they're telling you it exists.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Housing This one actually talks about the process near the end.

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And you prove my exact point right here. I said people tend to learn how content works as they experience it. Going to a website isn't experiencing the content as you play it. Most players like to learn by doing. It's why they play games - to do things. Being expected to go to a source outside of the game to find out about something you can lose in the game is unacceptable. Especially for console users as they often avoid browsing the internet on the ps4 because it's slow as hell.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

No, which is why I always go back and re-read things I don't understand, but yes, I also do read the patch notes in their entirety, that's what they're for.....to learn. What's so difficult about refreshing your memory exactly? Again, terrible excuses that you're using to absolve the OP of his share of the blame towards why he lost his house and items.

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Well then it seems you are incapable of putting yourself in the place of others and assume because you act a certain way and it works, then everyone else who doesn't is being irresponsible. Heaven forbid this may even be a person's first mmo and wouldn't have a remote idea as to the advantages of reading about content in websites.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I'm sorry, I don't agree with the OP being completely innocent and that's what you entire post makes him out to be. I'm not going to change my opinion on that.

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No I do not think and never have said that OP was entirely innocent. I even said in my first post that it's OP's fault if he skipped through the tutorial. But that does not mean I'm going to absolve SE of all blame.

The information about demolition timers is given at an extremely poorly timed moment which dooms it to be forgotten, and additional information is hidden in a npc and in a timer window that doesn't even display the timer for most of its duration. SE have even made it difficult to find out about the timer by accident. Surely you can at least see how misleading this is.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

...But not the definition of wilful. I'd have to know I was ignorant. You can be ignorant without being wilful; the wilful is an assumption on your part. You an assume all you want, but it doesn't make it true.

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....You...that's not how ignorance works. You didn't know about auto-demolition or the timers after playing for five years...you even stated that you think it's silly to refer to outside sources for that kind of information. That alone makes you willfully ignorant about housing. It's very hard to feign or deny ignorance after stating such things.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

....You...that's not how ignorance works. You didn't know about auto-demolition or the timers after playing for five years...you even stated that you think it's silly to refer to outside sources for that kind of information. That alone makes you willfully ignorant about housing. It's very hard to feign or deny ignorance after stating such things.

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That's not how wilfulness works. You're talking specifically about wilful ignorance. Wilfulness is intent. Being wilfully ignorant is choosing not to educate yourself on a topic that you know you do not sufficiently understand. As I genuinely believed I knew everything I'd need to know to continue enjoying this feature over time, save for perhaps a few specific things about gardening that an apartment / private chambers hadn't taught me, there was no decision not to delve further.

At no point did I say it was "silly" to refer to outside sources for that kind of information - please don't now start inventing things to try and discount my opinion on the matter. I simply don't think it should be necessary to lean on resources external to the game to learn about a fundamental in-game system, because not only are they not objectively and universally regarded as required reading, but the game sets an overwhelming precedent in almost every other regard that it will tell you what you need to know without them.

I'm not trying to respond to your other opinions because I can see how immovably steadfast you are in your subjective opinion on how to play the game correctly. Ridiculously untenable or not, you're entitled to that. But when you make incorrect assumptions about my intent, it's a cop-out to try and make your point.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

It can't be wilful if you don't know you're ignorant.

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The willful part comes into play when you know that sources of information exist and choose not to look at them.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Okay but when I was on about sprouts getting pop-ups about demolition you showed no sign of even thinking that maybe the tutorial on how demolition works is grossly mistimed. Instead you kept harping on about how housing in this game is like a mortgage in real life and people should be more responsible.

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Because your example with the sprouts didn't really tie into what I was actually arguing for and so, there was absolutely no point to derail the thread about lvl 15 sprouts. It wasn't relevant towards what I believed we were arguing about. If the OP was a sprout then maybe I'd have responded towards the point, but it wasn't a point that had any relevance towards the OP exactly. And yes, people who decide to venture into housing should be more responsible. If they were, we might not have problems like this one right now.

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I argue that people can't be more responsible about something if they're not even aware that there is any responsibility is attached. Heck a mortgage is paying for a house bit by bit. In this game you pay all the money at once. Of course people tend to assume once they have the house it belongs to them forever. That's how it works in real life if you pay the entire price of the house.

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And I'd argue that refusing to think of even asking or wanting to learn more about XIV housing doesn't negate the partial responsibility a player has for making sure that their own house doesn't get auto-demolition, lol.

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And you prove my exact point right here. I said people tend to learn how content works as they experience it. Going to a website isn't experiencing the content as you play it. Most players like to learn by doing. It's why they play games - to do things. Being expected to go to a source outside of the game to find out about something you can lose in the game is unacceptable. Especially for console users as they often avoid browsing the internet on the ps4 because it's slow as hell.

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The console users is a poor excuse since you can use a laptop or someone's computer to look up information and if you don't have one? Ask people. If we all had to use outside tools to look up more information regarding housing, why are we suddenly absolving one person from doing it? I mean, I play on PS4 and keep my laptop nearby or at least my phone.

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Well then it seems you are incapable of putting yourself in the place of others and assume because you act a certain way and it works, then everyone else who doesn't is being irresponsible. Heaven forbid this may even be a person's first mmo and wouldn't have a remote idea as to the advantages of reading about content in websites.

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How so? If I lost my XIV house, I wouldn't be making a forum post and saying that I'm quitting the game over it because it would be my own fault. Plain and simple, really, lol. There you go again with the hyperbole and strawman of things I've never said, you can stop now if that's your only way to argue, thanks.

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No I do not think and never have said that OP was entirely innocent. I even said in my first post that it's OP's fault if he skipped through the tutorial. But that does not mean I'm going to absolve SE of all blame.

The information about demolition timers is given at an extremely poorly timed moment which dooms it to be forgotten, and additional information is hidden in a npc and in a timer window that doesn't even display the timer for most of its duration. SE have even made it difficult to find out about the timer by accident. Surely you can at least see how misleading this is.

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Is it not stressed enough? Sure. Is it this end of the world problem? No, I don't really think that it quite is when most wards are full and have been full for quite a while. If this were such a huge issue, don't you think most wards would be empty all of the time because people don't know?

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Originally Posted by Rymm

The willful part comes into play when you know that sources of information exist and choose not to look at them.

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Not quite - sources of information exist about a great many things, but we don't always choose to look at them if we don't realise they have anything significant to educate us on. Wilful ignorance would be to ignore those sources of information, knowing full well that there was something meaningful you could learn by looking at them.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

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Alright, fine, since you genuinely believed that you knew everything that there was to know about housing. We can still say that you were ignorant about XIV housing for five years straight and that's why you lost your house and items, not just because you feel that SE set you up for failure and didn't explain it enough to you or made it more apparent in-game.

You may have not been willful, but you still were ignorant about the housing rules and regulations. You can't really deny that.

It's probably worth recapping a few points, as we're now on page 13:

Despite thinking that the in-game communication of the auto-demolition procedure is woefully inadequate, which is evidenced by a lot of the replies here, my post here was just to provide that feedback. I am not contesting that my house was demolished. I am not saying that it shouldn't have been demolished, and I'm not saying Squenix is to blame for it being demolished. I think a lot of the hyperbolic replies bemoaning how ridiculous it is that I didn't know about automatic demolition are, frankly, rather self indulgent opportunities to get on a high horse.

I am, at most, saying that it's no one's fault it was demolished, but merely a symptom of a system that is poorly communicated in comparison to the expectation set by other game systems, that have an abundance more in-game clarification. It's much easier to miss this than a lot of other, far less significant mechanics, and this seems to be something most people can agree on.

My main complaint is that the permanent deletion of furnishings after a demolition is remarkably heavy-handed. If you believe that the automatic demolition feature is entirely without fault, and someone who - for example - goes through a period of prolonged illness or inability to access the game should still have their home (a limited resource) freed up for someone else to enjoy, that's fine.

But I think, again, most of us are able to agree that the relatively short window (or any window at all, I would argue) for permanently annihilating a collection of furnishings that could be years in the making, cost real money on the Mogstation, or even irreplaceable, is unnecessarily unforgiving for people in this situation.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Alright, fine, since you genuinely believed that you knew everything that there was to know about housing. We can still say that you were ignorant about XIV housing for five years straight and that's why you lost your house and items, not just because you feel that SE set you up for failure and didn't explain it enough to you or made it more apparent in-game.

You may have not been willful, but you still were ignorant about the housing rules and regulations. You can't really deny that.

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We got there in the end, thanks. Of course I was ignorant about how the system worked - that's a statement of fact. There's no inherent shame in ignorance; we're all ignorant of something. And despite the well-intentioned people posting in support of my position perhaps implying that it's entirely Squenix's fault, I was not. I appreciate this thread has gotten long, and a lot of people are chiming in, but that's why I insisted on correcting you where I felt that you had made an incorrect assumption about my motivations.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Because your example with the sprouts didn't really tie into what I was actually arguing for and so, there was absolutely no point to derail the thread about lvl 15 sprouts. It wasn't relevant towards what I believed we were arguing about. If the OP was a sprout then maybe I'd have responded towards the point, but it wasn't a point that had any relevance towards the OP exactly. And yes, people who decide to venture into housing should be more responsible. If they were, we might not have problems like this one right now.

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It wasn't relevant to what we were arguing about? I was saying the timing of when you're informed about demolition is very poor. You get the notification the first time you entered a residential district after it has been introduced. Regardless of the level of the player this is terrible. A player who has no interest in housing will skip it. A player who doesn't understand how housing works may misunderstand it. A player who doesn't think they will have a house in a long time or don't want one at the time will dismiss it. And a player who read it at the time but didn't get a house until long after could forget about it. Any of these people could have been OP.

I used the fact that sprouts find out about it at around lvl 15 to highlight how woefully badly timed the information about demolition is presented. My example with the sprouts is most certainly relevant.

The demolition information shouldn't be flung at players when they're not even interacting with the system that allows you to purchase a house. It should be given at a more appropriate time, when it is clear they have an interest in housing...such as after they buy a house, so they can take the time to read it after probably buying the plot in a rush.

Maybe even put in a little quest after players meet the requirements to buy a house (gc rank and being lvl 50), and doing the quest would be a requirement to purchase a plot. That would also make more sense than the current format.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Is it not stressed enough? Sure. Is it this end of the world problem? No, I don't really think that it quite is when most wards are full and have been full for quite a while. If this were such a huge issue, don't you think most wards would be empty all of the time because people don't know?

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This differs from server to server. Loads of wards on Moogle have empty plots, and I very often see plots become empty in the wards I visit, and every so often I check the listings in others out of pure curiosity. The wards haven't been constantly full since 4.2 cracked down hard on players hoarding houses for personal use or house flipping.

And no the demolition timer issues are not the biggest in the game. But they're among the biggest issues with the current housing system. Ideally we'd have no timers at all but I wonder at this point if that will ever happen. SE seemed determined to keep the ward system as it is. At the very least SE could improve how the information regarding them is presented. If they already had then this thread may not exist. I doubt OP would have wilfully let the game take away his exclusive furnishings if he knew he could so easily prevent it.

This really sucks for you OP, but I can't sympathize with you. For having owned a house for so long, not only did you ignore it completely for 80 days (even though you were still playing), but you never, not once, knew about auto demo? I don't buy it. It's been mentioned in patch notes several times. The lodestone is not some foreign entity that you're not responsible for checking. There are links to updates, patch notes, notifications etc on the launcher every single time you launch the game. And to top it all off, you need a list of the items you lost because you can't remember what they were? Well then they must not have been that important to you. I'm sorry you're quitting, but this is 100% because of negligence on your part.

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Originally Posted by KarmaCha

I don't buy it.

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I appreciate that this thread is now quite long, so it's not a criticism to you personally, but everything you raised has already been covered and at this point I'd just be repeating myself.

That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.

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A shame you missed the last ruse that put everyone into a panic about losing their homes. Would have saved you losing your own!

Was that recently? Some of my FC friends were saying there were reports of people supposedly losing their homes without warning, but when I looked it didn't seem to be related to my issue with emails not being received. Was it a ploy after all?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

It wasn't relevant to what we were arguing about? I was saying the timing of when you're informed about demolition is very poor. You get the notification the first time you entered a residential district after it has been introduced. Regardless of the level of the player this is terrible. A player who has no interest in housing will skip it. A player who doesn't understand how housing works may misunderstand it. A player who doesn't think they will have a house in a long time or don't want one at the time will dismiss it. And a player who read it at the time but didn't get a house until long after could forget about it. Any of these people could have been OP.

I used the fact that sprouts find out about it at around lvl 15 to highlight how woefully badly timed the information about demolition is presented. My example with the sprouts is most certainly relevant.

The demolition information shouldn't be flung at players when they're not even interacting with the system that allows you to purchase a house. It should be given at a more appropriate time, when it is clear they have an interest in housing...such as after they buy a house, so they can take the time to read it after probably buying the plot in a rush.

Maybe even put in a little quest after players meet the requirements to buy a house (gc rank and being lvl 50), and doing the quest would be a requirement to purchase a plot. That would also make more sense than the current format.

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I was arguing about the OP's responsibility, you were arguing about the need for more notifications. It was relevant towards your argument solely, but not mine, and I wasn't even arguing about more or less notifications to begin with. You brought that one up on your own regarding the sprouts. There was two different arguments going on at the same time apparently because I was just for the OP alone.

So, it is what it is. We had two different things we were trying to get across and felt that we weren't getting across towards neither one basically.

/shrugs

Sigma, I guess I just don't follow why it's so important that we establish that OP is partially at fault (he is, he even acknowledges it).

This thread is like me going to city hall and complaining that I hit a pothole on my street that damaged my car, then you start ranting for ten minutes about distracted drivers and how the city posted a warning about the pothole on their website, and how I was probably speeding anyway.

Then when I ask you if that means you think the pothole shouldn't be filled in, you reply "What? No I never said that, I agree that pothole is bad and the city should do something about it."

Nobody in this thread has advocated for OP to get his house back, including himself. If you also agree that more visible warnings and notifications about impending demolitions would be a net good thing (which is the entire point of his feedback), then what exactly does OP's degree of fault change?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

I was arguing about the OP's responsibility, you were arguing about the need for more notifications. It was relevant towards your argument solely, but not mine, and I wasn't even arguing about more or less notifications to begin with. You brought that one up on your own regarding the sprouts. There was two different arguments going on at the same time apparently because I was just for the OP alone.

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I see how OP's situation highlights an issue with how information about demolition is presented in the game. And you think the only focus is OP. Same issue but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

And no I wasn't really saying we need more notifications. I was saying they need to be presented at a different time. I later thought about the little quest I mentioned in my previous post. But I don't think that would be needed if the notification was displayed at a much more appropriate time than it is now.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

Was it a ploy after all?

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No clue if the original reddit threads that kicked the whole thing off were made to troll or not (though I certainly have my suspicions) but there has yet to be one, single, substantiated case of someone's house getting auto-demoed before it should have. People were more than willing to type up long winded posts either ranting or sympathy-fishing but I think there was one, maybe two, actual bug reports made to SE about the supposed problem.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

I appreciate that this thread is now quite long, so it's not a criticism to you personally, but everything you raised has already been covered and at this point I'd just be repeating myself.

That part did make me chuckle though - the blinkered disbelief that I could somehow not have known about this feature, and so you seem suspicious that this is some kind of strange ruse? Remarkable.

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I don't understand why people are having a hard time with this. It's not that far fetched to think that someone may just play a game, enjoy their time while there, and that be it. There doesn't have to be more information seeking outside of their in-game enjoyment.

For myself, the 'general chat' section of the forums is about as far as my out-of-game experience goes. I miss just about all live-letters, initial patch announcements, letters/comments from Yoshi, etc. If it's been mentioned in the general chat, I may catch it, but not always. Most of the time I don't even notice what is in the launcher news.

The level of involvement in this game will vary from person to person. Some people will hunt for every last scrap of information they can find from the various websites and what not, but it is not a requirement to play a game.

With something as big as house demolitions, it should be brought to the player's attention IN-GAME. And not hidden behind a bunch of menus. Email notification is a good step for SE, but based on recent threads, it seems like that is even breaking down ATM. They're quite fond of pop-ups, perhaps they could enable something similar for housing.

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Sigma, I guess I just don't follow why it's so important that we establish that OP is partially at fault (he is, he even acknowledges it). Nobody in this thread has advocated for OP to get his house back, including himself. If you also agree that more visible warnings and notifications about impending demolitions would be a net good thing (which is the entire point of his feedback), then what exactly does OP's degree of fault change?

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Way in the beginning, we had people advocating otherwise and then when newer people came in and say "what a terrible thing SE has done to you" or "what about this person not being able to read the notes" or "what about this..etc", it starts to sound like an awful lot of deflecting and defending that even if some of the things SE does is often not smart, that it's also okay for the players to just throw all of their mistakes and weight onto the system entirely, which isn't wholly correct rather than just saying, "It's not right, but you weren't being incredibly smart or responsible about it either".

The reason we have the timers is because of people who buy homes and then never do a thing with them for ages when someone else might really want them. And, there's a disclaimer before you place down every object usually that warns you if the home is destroyed, it will be destroyed as well. A small portion of it lies on SE, but I feel a larger portion lies on the OP.

In my opinion, you just can't depend on a game giving you critical information all of the time, especially with an MMO where they've got so much stuff to go over with you. Maybe it's just because I played RO a lot back then and it barely told you anything so you had to learn from outside sources or other people what to do. A lot of people don't like being bombarded with tutorial after tutorial either, so there's the other half of that coin as well. Could they make the information more apparent? Sure. But, to say the information is non-existent simply because it's not in-game is kind of wrong to say at the very least.

It's really just hard to please everyone inside of an MMO truthfully and there's no such thing as a perfect one. It's best to not expect perfection from something constantly changing on a whim.

We can argue that this would have never happened if the information was made more apparent in-game by SE. Sure.

We can also argue that this would have never happened if the OP was more proactive and took the 2 minutes he spent playing Cactpot to Google some things as well about housing.

We can argue about both really.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I see how OP's situation highlights an issue with how information about demolition is presented in the game. And you think the only focus is OP. Same issue but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

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Well, it's probably because until the OP's thread came along, I've barely heard any complaints about the auto-demolition timer and how the information is presented. So, you'll have to excuse me if I find a standalone case of something going terribly wrong for only one person right now that it's a suddenly much larger problem that needs immediate attention.

It's hard not to be a little skeptical, you know?

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Well, it's probably because until the OP's thread came along, I've barely heard any complaints about the auto-demolition timer and how the information is presented. So, you'll have to excuse me if I find a standalone case of something going terribly wrong for only one person right now that it's a suddenly much larger problem that needs immediate attention.

It's hard not to be a little skeptical, you know?

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Actually on reddit you find posts fairly often about people losing their house due to being unaware of the timer or misunderstanding how it works (usually this means they think visiting their garden is enough). Less so these days but I suspect it's because Pagos wasn't exactly a great hit and people are just waiting for 4.4.

I understand the scepticism but at this point between all the posts I read about people being unaware of the timer or how it actually works, and the large amount of people I have personally explained it to including many who have been playing longer than me, I truly think there is an issue with how the information is presented in the game. It just doesn't make sense to have something so important presented at a time when the player isn't interacting with the system for purchasing a house. Especially when in most cases this now means they're low lvl sprouts who barely know how the game works. They're not likely to remember something about content they won't be able to interact with for a very long time.

SE is not gonna tell these things you need to keep up to date. All your fault, not SE.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

In my opinion, you just can't depend on a game giving you critical information all of the time, especially with an MMO where they've got so much stuff to go over with you. Maybe it's just because I played RO a lot back then and it barely told you anything so you had to learn from outside sources or other people what to do. A lot of people don't like being bombarded with tutorial after tutorial either, so there's the other half of that coin as well. Could they make the information more apparent? Sure. But, to say the information is non-existent simply because it's not in-game is kind of wrong to say at the very least.

It's really just hard to please everyone inside of an MMO truthfully and there's no such thing as a perfect one. It's best to not expect perfection from something constantly changing on a whim.

We can argue that this would have never happened if the information was made more apparent in-game by SE. Sure.

We can also argue that this would have never happened if the OP was more proactive and took the 2 minutes he spent playing Cactpot to Google some things as well about housing.

We can argue about both really.

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I want to add on to her post and bring this idea to other parts of the game. If this wasn't about a house but about being kicked from a raid, dungeon, party everyone here will be saying a differnt tune. How many times do we tell people to do their homework? Read your tooltips, go watch guides, learn the mechs? 90% of all that means you're looking at stuff outside the game. So why is housing no different? Why is housing or in this case here so different that it's all SE's fault. I agree with Sigma 100% If you are invested in this game then it takes more than just ingame stuff to get the job done, thats what we ask for players in battle content.... it should be the same for housing content as well. Cause noone will be saying this if this were savage or raid or dungeons or rotations. You don't believe me? Go to tales of a dutyfinder and 90% of those complaints are fro mpeople complaining people not doing their homework and making runs horrible. So I don't think Sigma is wrong here in her opinion.

I don't think houses belonging to an active subscription should be demolished at all. The original problem was houses sitting around empty for months and months that belonged to accounts that weren't active. There's no need to have active players jumping through hoops to keep their housing. Worry about those lasped subscriptions instead.

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Originally Posted by ko_

I want to add on to her post and bring this idea to other parts of the game. If this wasn't about a house but about being kicked from a raid, dungeon, party everyone here will be saying a differnt tune. How many times do we tell people to do their homework? Read your tooltips, go watch guides, learn the mechs? 90% of all that means you're looking at stuff outside the game. So why is housing no different?

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Maybe because housing isn't high end combat and no one is relying on you to do things correctly? Losing your house doesn't make your neighbour lose their house. But messing up in combat can ruin the fight for everyone. Raids are a team effort, private housing usually is not.

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Originally Posted by ko_

I want to add on to her post and bring this idea to other parts of the game. If this wasn't about a house but about being kicked from a raid, dungeon, party everyone here will be saying a differnt tune. How many times do we tell people to do their homework? Read your tooltips, go watch guides, learn the mechs? 90% of all that means you're looking at stuff outside the game. So why is housing no different? Why is housing or in this case here so different that it's all SE's fault. I agree with Sigma 100% If you are invested in this game then it takes more than just ingame stuff to get the job done, thats what we ask for players in battle content.... it should be the same for housing content as well. Cause noone will be saying this if this were savage or raid or dungeons or rotations. You don't believe me? Go to tales of a dutyfinder and 90% of those complaints are fro mpeople complaining people not doing their homework and making runs horrible. So I don't think Sigma is wrong here in her opinion.

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Player housing is not content where you are interacting with other players, and you are not going to be bringing down a raid by your lack of knowledge. Also, plenty of people ARE for learning a raid/dungeon/whatever via in-game experience. Watching a video or reading a guide is not expected or required to play this game. Some groups may require it for their own statics/PF runs, but that's on the individual leader.

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Originally Posted by R-Pete-G

Was that recently? Some of my FC friends were saying there were reports of people supposedly losing their homes without warning, but when I looked it didn't seem to be related to my issue with emails not being received. Was it a ploy after all?

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So wait, you heard stories of homes being lost and you never thought to look further in this? I mean surely if you received emails successfully you would of known your property was up for demolition, if you didn't receive them then you would entered your house to ensure you didn't lose it.

If this helps, I too knew of the auto-demo but thought if you're logging on before the timer runs out you'd be fine. I just now learned that you actually have to interact with it for the timer to stop.

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Originally Posted by MeeDeggiThePunisher

If this helps, I too knew of the auto-demo but thought if you're logging on before the timer runs out you'd be fine. I just now learned that you actually have to interact with it for the timer to stop.

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Totally unrelated, but your user name just gave me some rather vivid flashbacks of trying to gear my poor MNK.

Not sure how well it would work...but maybe they could add a mog-mail for people who are approaching the demolition date. Not sure what good it will do to people who have already lost their house, but maybe it's something they can look into.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Maybe because housing isn't high end combat and no one is relying on you to do things correctly? Losing your house doesn't make your neighbour lose their house. But messing up in combat can ruin the fight for everyone. Raids are a team effort, private housing usually is not.

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While yes you're right, but housing isn't just only solo content either and it does effect everyone else. Cause you can't buy the plot they are on if the house is there. So lets say there's only one plott left. And 10 people are rushing to get it. The plot being bought effects the other 9 players. But that's niether here no there. I bring this up cause it's still true. He's STILL writing on the fourms aboutt it, he STILL was not very well informed. Had this been anything else people would be singing a different tune. Why is this different? It's still on him to be informed on how to keep his house right? Just like it's on HIM to be informed on his rotation skills and everything else. If the person is NOT held to that then who's to say it's the person's duty in opther content? Other players or not right? All the information is out there. I don't care if it's housing or crafting or for crying out loud carby shoes. It's on YOU not SE to keep yourself informed. If you can't do THAT? well anything that happens to you is on YOU and only you.

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Originally Posted by ko_

While yes you're right, but housing isn't just only solo content either and it does effect everyone else. Cause you can't buy the plot they are on if the house is there. So lets say there's only one plott left. And 10 people are rushing to get it. The plot being bought effects the other 9 players. But that's niether here no there. I bring this up cause it's still true. He's STILL writing on the fourms aboutt it, he STILL was not very well informed. Had this been anything else people would be singing a different tune. Why is this different? It's still on him to be informed on how to keep his house right? Just like it's on HIM to be informed on his rotation skills and everything else. If the person is NOT held to that then who's to say it's the person's duty in opther content? Other players or not right? All the information is out there. I don't care if it's housing or crafting or for crying out loud carby shoes. It's on YOU not SE to keep yourself informed. If you can't do THAT? well anything that happens to you is on YOU and only you.

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This is a massive stretch.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Player housing is not content where you are interacting with other players, and you are not going to be bringing down a raid by your lack of knowledge. Also, plenty of people ARE for learning a raid/dungeon/whatever via in-game experience. Watching a video or reading a guide is not expected or required to play this game. Some groups may require it for their own statics/PF runs, but that's on the individual leader.

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No but you're missing my point. It's still on him mostly to make sure he has the information to take care of his stuff right? It's no different then learning his rotation? Or what we give him a pass simply cause it's housing? Why? All the information is out there. If you can't be bothered to look up what you have and how to take care of it why should the company be at fault for you losing it? So is it SE fault for noobs failing DPS checks and being ice mages? Is it SE fault that people don't know how things work when ALL the information is as simple as a google click away? Housing is no different.. yes he's not killing 7 players BUT he IS telling us about it.. and the biggest reason he lost his house is cause he was unimforned. Had the man did a simple google search NONE of this would've happened. Missing emails or NOT. So yes the ball is on him. You can say SE messed up with the emails fine. But again had he did what he was posed to do in the first place he wouldn't be in this spot he's in now. This is just as much his fault or more his fault then anything else.

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Originally Posted by ko_

While yes you're right, but housing isn't just only solo content either and it does effect everyone else. Cause you can't buy the plot they are on if the house is there. So lets say there's only one plott left. And 10 people are rushing to get it. The plot being bought effects the other 9 players.

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You are really reaching with this comparison. Raiding and housing have very little in common, especially personal housing. Personal housing is very rarely a team effort. Either you don't know how raiding works, or you don't know how housing works.

May as well start comparing cactpot with housing while you're at it.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Why is this different?

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Because (crazy idea I know) it's not the same.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You are really reaching with this comparison. Raiding and housing have very little in common, especially personal housing. Personal housing is very rarely a team effort. Either you don't know how raiding works, or you don't know how housing works.

May as well start comparing cactpot with housing while you're at it.



Because (crazy idea I know) it's not the same.

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Forget the comparsion then... you are still missing the point. The information is out there. Just like everything else. So what cause it's housing the person isn't posed to look up information to keep it? That doesn't make sense. It's not like it's not out there AT ALL. Literally all he had to do was google. It's not SE fault he was too tucking lazy to use google. Sorry but I'm not goign to blame the company for a user error.. which is what this is. Had he did the research NONE OF THIS WOULD'VE HAPPEN! Can we stop with wanting to blame SE for EVERYTHING fopr a change and actually expect people to do their part for something that's - important- to them? Or is SE posed to baby us for everything?