“non-essential” premium content, does SE want this kind of reputation if it continue?

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Why does this forum like to nitpick the shit out of stupid things?

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Because they have a psychological need to defend their purchase/money spent.

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This strikes true with a lot of us. How often do you see people say "Well if you don't like it, go play something else"? That's not a great way to be. I think most of us are here because we have enjoyed something about the game, and we want to see it become better. We bring issues up, and complain, because we hope it will do some good. Some people go about it better than others, but I imagine the underlying thought is the same.

Of course there are times where you just need to throw in the towel and move on, but that's a personal decision. We all have our limit for what we find acceptable. I'm definitely of the opinion that SE has done plenty of bad things with this game, and I would probably not pick up another SE title. That's a complete reversal from my XI days. I'm obviously just one person, but I doubt I'm alone in that thought.

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Yeah its really sad as a legacy player to see these newcomers with this attitude, we criticize things we love the most because we want them to be better! Do they not realize 2.0 would have never happened with their attitude?

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Originally Posted by Radial

Saying it is due to demand doesn't really add up, that may be true for some items but jump potions for example were almost universally panned andyet we got them anyway.

I'm not sure why you think quoting the definition of business in a condescending way is an argument? Anyone who has actual business experience knows that a huge part of running a business is competition and keeping you customers happy and loyal. This weird justification for any behavior with "Its a BUSINESS" is unique to digital goods, I have no idea why. People would not accept this for anything else.

Regarding things being OPTIONAL , Textures are optional, you could technically play the game in wireframe mode just fine, sound and music is optional, dont NEED them to play the game. Graphic settings beyond the minimum are optional. If you go down this weird subjective rabbit hole 99.99% of the game is optional. Makes no sense to tell people who don't like this its OPTIONAL . Its a meaningless point.

I was not talking about client lag, tho there are issues that highlight SE laziness and incompetence in the move to dx11 with crashes and driver problems that are easily preventable on SE end, as well as lack of proper Anti Aliasing. I was talking about connection problems with the server location and move. I have done network contracting for game companies before and the issues with packet loss and routing in ffxiv are absolutely preventable and solvable,as evidence by the fact no other MMO has this problem. This isn't random intermittent lag that happens to some people in all MMOs, this is chronic specific problem that is easily traceable to a specific point and has been happening for years. if SE actually gave a crap and was willing to spend money to do their literal job as an MMO service provider it could be fixed in a day.

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What do you mean it does not add up? Have you even seen the request on forums for certain items? Past events? re -releasing items in some sort? Supply and demand determine how a business can thrive and yes I do have a business degree, however it does not take a degree to have common sense and realize that this type of business is not a charity type. As for why I gave explanations and definition of what a business means, hoping that people can connect the dots and have some type of hope that common sense still exist in the world, is not meant to be condescending. It was meant to back up my argument on this whole matter. Keeping customers loyal and clients happy in a perfect world would be ideal. Now lets get back to reality, NO business can have a 100% customer satisfaction and thrive. People are too conceited, fail to take responsibility for their actions, lack the common sense to read the terms of use which would eliminate some of these threads that lead no where, and fail to realize that the culture of online gaming has changed to what it use to be.

I'm a tech by profession, and your right many things can be optional tech wise, however we are talking about content here that is being sold. So stay focus personally it's rare that I have any connection issues or even have had many problems that people claim here to have. I've been able to replicate them on lower spec systems, however on my main one extremely rare issues. So by trial an error I can only say most players do require upgrades being technology is changing and either can't afford to, don't have the knowledge to do so on their own, or don;t want to face the fact that their device is obsolete to an extend. Sure it plays other games why won't it play FFXIV people would most likely say as an argument to which it is a very simple response. Programs vary not all games have same requirements. -.-; I will agree companies now and again will have issues and are addresses as patches are being released, their notes give great things of what has happened. So yes it is work in progress. It is a program and as new content is released it is realistically acceptable that bugs will pop up. However lack of common sense is a complete different story. No company can fix that.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

As for the whole Lag issues ; -.- you do realize that there are multiple factors that can affect this, NOT just SE. Device, technology changes example; PC 32bit system , recommended to use 64bit system. There is also product knowledge somehow people want to run at max settings when their system can't handle it. Then it crashes and blame the company.

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There is a difference between lag and framerate/stutter.
While the latter is on people, the former is entirely on SEs, mainly their shitty netcode.

I have a very powerful gaming system and I get the typical .5s delay on everything in the game (UI updates, positioning etc, most easily seen when healing or dispelling people).
My latency to the server is 37ms, so it is NOT the servers fault. It is the coding that sucks... HARD.

I played WoW for 10 years and never had latency issues this bad and I played it on potatoes at max settings, getting down to 2.4 FPS in boss fights.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

What I mean is that FFXI already sold extra wardrobe space and also you had to pay for character slots, from what ppl tell me about the game it's more crippling than here, but I could be wrong. Point is that what's happening is not really doing anything out of the straordinary

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Mules have always been popular in XI, but they are handy for far more than just storage. I think the big perks are when used as crafting alts, gardening armies, bazaaring, more auction house space, free daily item etc. Big money can be had from mules. Up until 2016, when they started selling the 2 additional gear storage slots, this was the only additional in-game "perk" you could buy in addition to your sub.

If the only thing that XIV sold were additional retainers, I don't think the backlash would be so strong. But as it is, they have a massive cash shop full of exclusive mounts and costumes. They are introducing a sub-based app for in-game perks. And then there are the 9 additional retainers for sale. The last one annoys me a bit just due to how it was handled by SE. SE tried to explain why they couldn't increase inventory, but then suddenly those concerns seemed to poof once the sales became available. Another sore spot is that we still don't have a free 3rd retainer after 5 years.

One thing by itself may not be horrible, but when it's all combined together, it's not painting the best of pictures.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I understand not everyone is going to feel the same as me.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Mules have always been popular in XI, but they are handy for far more than just storage. I think the big perks are when used as crafting alts, gardening armies, bazaaring, more auction house space, free daily item etc. Big money can be had from mules. Up until 2016, when they started selling the 2 additional gear storage slots, this was the only thing you could buy in addition to your sub.

If the only thing that XIV sold were additional retainers, I don't think the backlash would be so strong. But as it is, they have a massive cash shop full of exclusive mounts and costumes. They are introducing a sub-based app for in-game perks. And then there are the 9 additional retainers for sale. The last one annoys me a bit just due to how it was handled by SE. SE tried to explain why they couldn't increase inventory, but then suddenly those concerns seemed to poof once the sales became available. Another sore spot is that we still don't have a free 3rd retainer after 5 years.

One thing by itself may not be horrible, but when it's all combined together, it's not painting the best of pictures.

Of course, this is just my opinion. I understand not everyone is going to feel the same as me.

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I say that extra char slots are worse than eveything done so far tbh, the damage was done then not now.

The problem with this thread is that it's trying to say that it's a slippery slope, but we are already at the bottom of the barrell because the company has done plenty of this things in the years

and as granyala haave said blizzard has paved the way for the cash shop in sub games, SE simply adapted it on top on their selling storages and partly on character slots (begginer fee vs normal player fee) and he/she is also right that sadly complaining about this won't change much because there always be ppl willing to pay for this (which sadly it's a common thing in japan)

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Originally Posted by Radial

Why are you so amazed that your weird subjective definition of mandatory and optional in the game is not shared by everyone? What exactly is mandatory? If glamour is the true end game for most, then all this "optional" stuff seems pretty mandatory to me.

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If glamour is your true endgame, why bother with the ugly stuff in the mogstation? Just because you think you need that stuff doesn't mean i would have a weird definition of mandatory. There is nothing in the shop that you NEED to progress further in the game, that means there is nothing mandatory. But since you obviously didn't understand for what you are paying your sub, we don't even have to discuss anymore because it is a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

There is a difference between lag and framerate/stutter.
While the latter is on people, the former is entirely on SEs, mainly their shitty netcode.

I have a very powerful gaming system and I get the typical .5s delay on everything in the game (UI updates, positioning etc, most easily seen when healing or dispelling people).
My latency to the server is 37ms, so it is NOT the servers fault. It is the coding that sucks... HARD.

I played WoW for 10 years and never had latency issues this bad and I played it on potatoes at max settings, getting down to 2.4 FPS in boss fights.

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Hmmm playing WoW is this before or after the touch up. I was a big fan of the older WoW the MMO killed it for me. Even after years of being pestered by friends to play with them, unless they need help I don't touch it. FFXI is still more interesting than WoW any day. As for frame rates and stutters, sorry to break it to you there are still things that can affect it. here are some examples;

Content are congestion; Eureka; Many people had issues here and your right I think they could have prepared better for it. On the other hand I really had no issues in terms of frame rate or frame rate stutter for two reasons.

First; I made sure my device was not running anything on the back ground to ensure non interruptions( updates ect ) and that my system was properly configured so it can handle it.

Second; I have a dedicated line for my gaming. In most cases people fail to see how sharing their line or using it on multiple devices can affect their experience.

Problems that I did notice; yes having a limit of 100 people per instance and locking it help tremendously. However do to the NM trains having close to 50+ people per train would cause issues. This is to be expected and simple knowledge on congestion. However on older content no issues...pretty self explanatory.

Gaming consoles vs PC's ; No surprise there third party networking and specs can vary by model.

So yes there are a few things that they have control over, however over all devices and services can vary based on various factors. Benchmark gives you a nice idea of what your system can handle.. too bad not many people realize how to use it properly.

Over all certain areas will not be affected as others. Over time issues dies down, they are address, and as I had mentioned are given updates in patch notes.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

There is nothing in the shop that you NEED to progress further in the game, that means there is nothing mandatory.

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I would argue that more retainers, definitely cross the line, since it not only boils down to more inventory space but also into more ventures per hour.

That being said: it's a minor thing, as long as it stays that way I can ignore it.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Hmmm playing WoW is this before or after the touch up.

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I played for 10 years, TBC to Legion (Legion only extremely casually, I was raid active from TBC till end of WOD).

Your question is irrelevant because I am talking systems level. WoW, even the old wow before they eliminated the 400ms position polling, runs circles around FF-XIV in terms of responsiveness to player input.

Also, I am not talking about extreme cases like Eureka. Lag is expected there and you will have lag in WoW too if you put that many people on say... OOOooondasta (my fav world boss :D ).

I am talking about 8 souls vs a savage raid boss.

What happened to the custom ui feature? Even xi had it.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I would argue that more retainers, definitely cross the line, since it not only boils down to more inventory space but also into more ventures per hour.

That being said: it's a minor thing, as long as it stays that way I can ignore it.

I played for 10 years, TBC to Legion (Legion only extremely casually, I was raid active from TBC till end of WOD).



Your question is irrelevant because I am talking systems level. WoW, even the old wow before they eliminated the 400ms position polling, runs circles around FF-XIV in terms of responsiveness to player input.

Also, I am not talking about extreme cases like Eureka. Lag is expected there and you will have lag in WoW too if you put that many people on say... OOOooondasta (my fav world boss :D ).

I am talking about 8 souls vs a savage raid boss.

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Great job comparing games same here and that is irrelevant. Just like any other game congestion varies. Same effect leave it alone for a while then comeback. If your having issues on raids how often. When it resets or later on the week? When a resets guess what? congestion. Middle to end of week rare you will have issues. Try it makes a difference. Hardware wise in everyone's eye they have a very powerful gaming system. As I had mentioned before experience varies.

I went with the extreme to prove a point and only gave it as an example. Congestion varies. I'm in Balmung, enough said when it comes to congestion. Every area is different, player experience varies, that is reality. While we could go back and forth on these, lets just end it with a simple resolution. Not every player will have the same experience, things get address by how many people get impacted. Programs are unpredictable and will continue to happen.

On another note; just like in any other game cash shops are influence by players and that is were micro transactions come into play. All cash shops are optional and not required to either play the game or complete it.

Retard forum ate my post so here is the short version:

I am talking about the persistent 500ms delay on EVERY PLAYER ACTION in this game. It is there no matter what you do and it is rooted in SE coding.
You can try to defend it all you want but it is crap coding and overzealous server side verification that causes it. Not peoples machines or their internet connections.

You want proof: start running before your cast is finished. Most of the time you can run @ 80% cast bar and the cast will go through. Why? Because it already has gone through server side before you started running. Same thing applies to moving in and out of void zones.

While netcode is idd a problem, we are also comparing 2 very different games, in the sense that you need a whole different client to access other regions while with FFXIV you can and that will affect performances

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Originally Posted by Granyala

Retard forum ate my post so here is the short version:

I am talking about the persistent 500ms delay on EVERY PLAYER ACTION in this game. It is there no matter what you do and it is rooted in SE coding.
You can try to defend it all you want but it is crap coding and overzealous server side verification that causes it. Not peoples machines or their internet connections.

You want proof: start running before your cast is finished. Most of the time you can run @ 80% cast bar and the cast will go through. Why? Because it already has gone through server side before you started running. Same thing applies to moving in and out of void zones.

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Thanks for spelling that out! The delay is one of those things that we all learn to deal with, and in my case, totally forget about. D; I was confused when people kept mentioning lag. Would be sweet if they could fix that, although then we'd all have to relearn how to deal with AoEs ;)

Why do people complain about the free market. Don't like it, don't purchase it.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

While netcode is idd a problem, we are also comparing 2 very different games, in the sense that you need a whole different client to access other regions while with FFXIV you can and that will affect performances

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No it won't.
While you would have more latency when playing an a server that is across the great pond (ask Australian wow players) that would not introduce such a constant delay.
Blizzards restriction is pretty arbitrary and has been questioned by the players many times.

BTW: I do not need a different client to access and create a character on US servers. A simple line of code in a small file is enough to make it connect. I have done so and created demo freebie chars on US servers myself. Defaulting to a region is just a setting that has no menu entry. ;)

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Thanks for spelling that out! The delay is one of those things that we all learn to deal with, and in my case, totally forget about. D; I was confused when people kept mentioning lag. Would be sweet if they could fix that, although then we'd all have to relearn how to deal with AoEs ;)

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True, changing it now would definitely be confusing for a lot of people.
In the long run it would be a net gain though because game mechanics would work more precisely and more predictably.

Some people complain every time an optional item is added no matter how superfluous it is... do you really want S-E to make the slimmest possible profit margin so that they have nothing to fall back on when the company has a bad year and they go under and the game service ends? They aren't doing any shady stuff at all like the $99 loot boxes some games have. There's a small monthly fee for some app which offers a minor convenience. The app directly interacts with data on the game servers and will increase the number of requests on them, so they monetised it. Paying for things is just the reality of funding a large company with large operating costs and ballooning budgets. The most they've ever done to give an advantage to people who pay more is selling additional retainers, but you can just make alt characters if you want more storage / sales slots / ventures so the impact is minimal.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

I would argue that more retainers, definitely cross the line, since it not only boils down to more inventory space but also into more ventures per hour.

That being said: it's a minor thing, as long as it stays that way I can ignore it.

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Well it might not be a nice thing, i agree on that, but it is just a nice to have thing because you don't need it really except you are a hoarder.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

No it won't.
While you would have more latency when playing an a server that is across the great pond (ask Australian wow players) that would not introduce such a constant delay.
Blizzards restriction is pretty arbitrary and has been questioned by the players many times.

BTW: I do not need a different client to access and create a character on US servers. A simple line of code in a small file is enough to make it connect. I have done so and created demo freebie chars on US servers myself. Defaulting to a region is just a setting that has no menu entry. ;)

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Tbh I'm following something that was said on the forum regarding how they created this game and why they went for this steup, sadly I forgot to pin the name of the guy who said that.
Unless it was on reddit and it could be the guy who has pinned practically every quote done by the devs

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If glamour is your true endgame, why bother with the ugly stuff in the mogstation? Just because you think you need that stuff doesn't mean i would have a weird definition of mandatory.

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Do you even know what subjective means? Or are you being purposely obtuse? Seems like it.

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But since you obviously didn't understand for what you are paying your sub, we don't even have to discuss anymore because it is a waste of time.

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If you don't want to discuss it then feel free to not waste anymore of your time in this thread?

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but you can just make alt characters if you want more storage / sales slots / ventures so the impact is minimal.

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Nope, mules are explicitly blocked, there is no way to move items from one character over to another.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Well it might not be a nice thing, i agree on that, but it is just a nice to have thing because you don't need it really except you are a hoarder.

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Every omnicrafter is pressured for more inventory and to say otherwise is disingenuous or you don't craft seriously. I honestly wouldn't mind paying for more space, but renting space is just crazy.

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Originally Posted by Radial

Nope, mules are explicitly blocked, there is no way to move items from one character over to another.

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I share stuff with my alts all the time. I have 30 retainers and pay for 3 additional on my main. FC chests work just fine for transfer.

And relative to mogstation I have no problem with content that is added there other than the fact that most of it now a days is locked one per character. They'd sell a lot more to me if that wasn't the case.

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Originally Posted by Radial

Every omnicrafter is pressured for more inventory and to say otherwise is disingenuous or you don't craft seriously. I honestly wouldn't mind paying for more space, but renting space is just crazy.

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Funny, i know an omnicrafter who has just 2 retainers and has no issues. Its probably because she doesn't hoard each and everything. I used to do that too but i lost interest in crafting. :shrug:

Like i said, i agree that this renting hell even buying extra inventory space is a no go but it works with less space too. We all know SE had several bad ideas with this game and this is just one of them, i won't write about the others because that would be offtopic.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Hmmm playing WoW is this before or after the touch up. I was a big fan of the older WoW the MMO killed it for me. Even after years of being pestered by friends to play with them, unless they need help I don't touch it. FFXI is still more interesting than WoW any day. As for frame rates and stutters, sorry to break it to you there are still things that can affect it. here are some examples;

Content are congestion; Eureka; Many people had issues here and your right I think they could have prepared better for it. On the other hand I really had no issues in terms of frame rate or frame rate stutter for two reasons.

First; I made sure my device was not running anything on the back ground to ensure non interruptions( updates ect ) and that my system was properly configured so it can handle it.

Second; I have a dedicated line for my gaming. In most cases people fail to see how sharing their line or using it on multiple devices can affect their experience.

Problems that I did notice; yes having a limit of 100 people per instance and locking it help tremendously. However do to the NM trains having close to 50+ people per train would cause issues. This is to be expected and simple knowledge on congestion. However on older content no issues...pretty self explanatory.

Gaming consoles vs PC's ; No surprise there third party networking and specs can vary by model.

So yes there are a few things that they have control over, however over all devices and services can vary based on various factors. Benchmark gives you a nice idea of what your system can handle.. too bad not many people realize how to use it properly.

Over all certain areas will not be affected as others. Over time issues dies down, they are address, and as I had mentioned are given updates in patch notes.

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I still don't think you understand, both me and the other person you replies to on this subject are talking network lag, nothing to do with FPS or frame stutter at all. I don't even mind the built in delay, its the packet loss that seems to affect most of the midwest that is my problem. Like I said earlier I've used ssh to different places and run pathpings and traceroutes from Arizona, Colorado,Kansas,New Mexico,Texas, and a few more. They all have packet loss at the same hop, and the hundreds of traces posted in the technical support forms show that same spot as well.That isn't your normal one off routing problem that happens in MMO's this is a problem with an entire geographic area being unable to connect to the game properly.

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I share stuff with my alts all the time. I have 30 retainers and pay for 3 additional on my main. FC chests work just fine for transfer.

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Requiring a private FC seems like a really lame work around to not being able to mail items to your mules/alts, You would have to fill up and empty every slot of the FC chest multiple times to fill up one retainer.

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Originally Posted by Radial

Requiring a private FC seems like a really lame work around to not being able to mail items to your mules/alts, You would have to fill up and empty every slot of the FC chest multiple times to fill up one retainer.

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Want to bring up that somewhere in a Q&A, it was said that they are working on a way to in-game mail to your own ALTs. For those arguing against renting space via the retainers, here is something to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Radial

Requiring a private FC seems like a really lame work around to not being able to mail items to your mules/alts, You would have to fill up and empty every slot of the FC chest multiple times to fill up one retainer.

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Don't hoard the stuff that will take you all of 5m to gather, just hoard the stuff that's rare drops or would normally cost seals, etc. I'm an omnicrafter and I only have 2 retainers dedicated to crafting, never really have an issue except with stuff I simply go through a lot of.

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Originally Posted by Radial

Every omnicrafter is pressured for more inventory and to say otherwise is disingenuous or you don't craft seriously. I honestly wouldn't mind paying for more space, but renting space is just crazy.

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I dunno how you want to define crafting seriously but as someone who crafts 100s of different items a week, I don't feel pressured for more inventory. Just because you feel pressured, don't speak for everyone as if they do as well. I know many crafters that get by with the 2 base retainers or only 1 additional one. I'm actually considering dropping one of mine because I don't need it.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I dunno how you want to define crafting seriously but as someone who crafts 100s of different items a week, I don't feel pressured for more inventory. Just because you feel pressured, don't speak for everyone as if they do as well. I know many crafters that get by with the 2 base retainers or only 1 additional one. I'm actually considering dropping one of mine because I don't need it.

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You don't feel pressured for more inventory, but have extra retainers? :thinking: I don't think it is very controversial to say most people feel/felt an inventory crunch in this game considering some of the most well received changes to the game in the recent past was to expand the inventory, make things stack to 999, and chocobo saddlebags. SE seems to think it is an issue.

They would sell the blue mage job stone on the mogstation and these people would still defend it and pretend it's an OPTIONAL job, there's no point trying to reason them.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

They would sell the blue mage job stone on the mogstation and these people would still defend it and pretend it's an OPTIONAL job, there's no point trying to reason them.

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It lets me keep the thread bumped and lets me deconstruct their statements for more reasonable silent majority to see, while also letting me farm out those pages of replies since that is apparently what matters to get dev attention? Though you will notice now that the thread is going longer the mood has changed from "UGH another thread? why cant you all stop spamming" to saying there is nothing left to discuss.

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Originally Posted by Fourbestintoner

They would sell the blue mage job stone on the mogstation and these people would still defend it and pretend it's an OPTIONAL job, there's no point trying to reason them.

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It's true. The people on this forums are sheep who will defend Square for any action. Idiots on here were defending people buying clears with real money so it doesn't surprise me that they'd be on their knees over the app. I look forward to the day where we can buy raid skip potions on the mogstation. There won't even a backlash, just a bunch of gurgling from the white knights going down on YoshiP.

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Originally Posted by Radial

You don't feel pressured for more inventory, but have extra retainers? :thinking: I don't think it is very controversial to say most people feel/felt an inventory crunch in this game considering some of the most well received changes to the game in the recent past was to expand the inventory, make things stack to 999, and chocobo saddlebags. SE seems to think it is an issue.

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I think Extra Retainers are sometimes not even about the Inventory Space, but limited Sell Slots you have, basically it's kinda becoming a small Pay2Win Option if you go against People in Food/Pot Business that have 8 Retainers versus your 2 Retainers.

2 Retainers = 40 Sell Slots
8 Retainers = 160 Sell Slots

2 Characters with 16 Retainers together = 320 Sell Slots
3 Characters with 24 Retainers together = 480 Sell Slots

Couple that with a Alt Character or 2 Additional Characters that someone uses to Craft extreme amounts of Items and ...

Enough to harrass the Crafter out of a Market who only has 40 Sell Slots, yes.. there is People out there that pay absurd amounts of Money just to do this.

(Not complaining in the end, it's just how it is and in the end it's not like we can do something about it but welp, away I go ^^)

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

To be fair, quite a few of the so-called "defenders" weren't really defending the practice - they were just saying that whatever they do with their money is their own business. That's not really defending the practice of buying clears.

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Yeah I'm aware, the complacent "It's their money, if they want to buy clears, let them" stance which is a joke at best. If you allow or condone people using real money to buy clears, just sell clears on mogstation and let Square get some of that.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Yeah I'm aware, the complacent "It's their money, if they want to buy clears, let them" stance which is a joke at best. If you allow or condone people using real money to buy clears, just sell clears on mogstation and let Square get some of that.

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Realize that there is absolutely NOTHING SE can do about that. What ever arrangement people make in private in TS or elsewhere is absolutely none of SE's business.

That being said: I am familiar with selling clears for ingame currency, WoW guilds do it all the time but never encountered RL money clear sells. Oo

As for the hoarding: yeah I can see how, if you play many classes and like to collect glam gear 2 retainers are crammed.
Hell I play 2 classes actively and one of my kittens is packed to the max serving as a walking closet. :X

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Originally Posted by Radial

Every omnicrafter is pressured for more inventory and to say otherwise is disingenuous or you don't craft seriously. I honestly wouldn't mind paying for more space, but renting space is just crazy.

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Omnicrafter with no extra retainers and not using FC chest for that here. so speak for yourself

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Originally Posted by Mwynn

I think Extra Retainers are sometimes not even about the Inventory Space, but limited Sell Slots you have, basically it's kinda becoming a small Pay2Win Option if you go against People in Food/Pot Business that have 8 Retainers versus your 2 Retainers.

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I would not entirely disagree, but I do think this will enter the equation regardless. It's mostly a question of how convenient it is. If they didn't allow people to purchase added retainers, I expect instead you'd see a rise in people with two service accounts, since that way they can trade between characters, and more easily manage "mules." They could still effectively recreate the scenario you described, it'd just be a bit more work to do. (Though this is where the new app would actually become convenient.) In the end, you could probably argue that retainers are really just an NPC version of mules you might have on other MMOs, and this implementation is a lot more practical for people on consoles (since you can't easily "dual-box" like you can on PC).

This is not to say that anything and everything is therefore okay, but whatever sorts of limits you impose, some people will see an advantage of being to defeat those limits in whatever ways the system makes possible. That being said, I bet if you did a poll, people would rate "paying for a second subscription to get more inventory space/market listings" a lot lower on the "Feels P2W" scale, because it's a more oldschool/traditional approach that doesn't involve a microtransaction.

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Originally Posted by polyphonica

That being said, I bet if you did a poll, people would rate "paying for a second subscription to get more inventory space/market listings" a lot lower on the "Feels P2W" scale, because it's a more oldschool/traditional approach that doesn't involve a microtransaction.

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Well there are always people that go to rather extreme lengths like having multiple paid accounts to get an advantage.
Paying a 1.4€/mo is a considerably smaller investment to gain an advantage, subsequently more people use it and it has more of an impact.

I'd guess that's the main reason why people feel that way.

See they do listen and respond.

Take some notes from that thread's OP on how they spoke to the devs and how they presented themselves. I have no problem with complaints or raising concerns, its the way the OP in this thread was so negative and condescending that I'm sure gets them an automatic pass.

If we all step back and look at the bigger picture we can probably come to one main key point. Inventory wise the game is designed to accommodate at average 3 classes and that is with low end hoarding habits. Having extra retainers semi helps and really only makes the hoarding habit expand. For those who are organize and constantly have a flow in there inventory having extra retainers can help in terms of selling. ( mostly if you craft ) Sure we all like to keep glamour and such and hopefully they can expand the Armorie options, however if we really look into our inventory why do we keep most of the crap?
I'm guilty of this and have max retainers, however it does help me gathering materials and selling. I have a Private FC as well for space and perks. It's still better than alternates and spending more money on multiple accounts. -.-? SE is meeting demand and lets face it us lazy people would rather pay than be more organized -.-/