Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

There's a proper exercise in the Hall of the Novice for heals and iirc dps that teach you exactly that.

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The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Let's compare shinryu ex rate clears on pf and farms now and when it was new. You can honestly see how low the rate is now compare to before, hell even just a single clear is nearly impossible these days. Why? The very good players usually leave for a month or two before next patch while the rest is hanging around wondering why they can't clear the extreme version. Ever wonder why people got clear faster before? Because good players still around and there are barely enough ones to carry the ones now.

There are seriously a big gap when content is new vs when its getting 1-2 months old. How certain people act in here just gives me another reason to not help people, like its obvious when they clearly don't want to get better but they expect us to play good/great, yet they don't do it themselves.

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I've yet to see a Shinryu clear because of people failing the mechs. 90% of the time, I'd rather have a party that can reach enrage without screwing up much compared to one with huge DPS but can't survive mechs, because the enrage group has a CHANCE of success, as long as they step up their game. Remember, numbers mean nothing if you can't survive. You can be the best DPS in the world in terms of damage, but if you can't survive mechs, you're useless to the group...IMO, of course.

Sounds like you are whining about people who cant play as well as you and they shouldnt be allowed to play the game because it might inconvenience you in some fashion at a later date. There are people who are just not good at games like this but enjoy playing, who are you to say they shouldnt be allowed to play or stuck in some kiddie table version because they dont play at your level. There is plenty of content out there like savage and extreme modes where you can play with higher skilled players. If you go into a roulette expecting savage/extreme level skill, then you are simply setting yourself up for disappointment. Its a roulette, ie a gamble, which includes not only which dungeon you get but how well the people play in your party. If you are the type that cant handle playing with the 'unwashed masses' then you should stick to the friend and free company groups and leave the rest of the players to their own devices.

Also there are not only people who dont play well but people who are skilled though dont bother trying because they feel its inferior content. Along with the people who know that playing badly pisses off people like you and do it intentionally to get a rise out of you. Probably even laughing their butts off at this "rant" of yours.

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. You invest way too much significance into it and get bothered way too much by the actions of others, in a way you simply shouldn't as a game.

When I play this game, most of the time things go fine. I do all my content ok in a decent timeframe, I rarely see any real trolls, and probably the most issues I have is with PvP, but a lot of that is due to how the developer designs content. If they don't go fine...well this is a game, people aren't going to always be good, and at worst i'm out ten minutes once every 100 tries when I leave duty.

But because for a lot of people this game becomes a job, they end up just taking everything so serious even beyond what they should. You see it in Overwatch too, people so concerned with how others act because that simple end of season number is so vital to them that they create these huge myths of bad play and demonize sectors of the playerbase to deal with the stress of their job. There's some extent of developer blame as well...you don't throw random people of varying skill levels together to require high levels of coordination and play.

But ugh, I've seen years of this kind of griping. And it's dumb. People's solution to this is essentially to make the game not fun enough as to drive bad players out through game design and training. They tried that in FFXI, and yeah, a lot of people left as early as valkurm dunes. Not sure why that would work here.

And it didn't solve anything either, people griped as much there, and they completed stuff a lot less to boot.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Monocle

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Your glamour is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

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You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, but you can decide how you respond to it. Have you referred those people to the Hall of the Novice? Have you tried to explain in the Hall's stead? Or do you just expect everyone to start the game with your current level of skill and experience? People here should keep things in proportion and stop taking responsibility for the literal thousands of other players who don't play by their standards. 'This is a game' works in two ways - one, stop demanding perfection from strangers on the internet who won't care as much as you do because it's a game and they're entitled not to care about it, you don't pay their sub. Two, stop demanding perfection on a frigging game with strangers on the internet, love yourself a little bit more.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. (editing)

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You don't get to tell other people how to have fun. What's enjoyable for some people is grueling for others.
The OP is self-admittedly venting and you come in here and tell him how dare he expect people to do the objectives in a reasonable capacity. Doesn't come across well.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. (editing)

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Some ppl value their time because if they had more of it they could spend even more time ranting about it. That's what I'm understanding from this thread.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You don't get to tell other people how to have fun. What's enjoyable for some people is grueling for others.
The OP is self-admittedly venting and you come in here and tell him how dare he expect people to do the objectives in a reasonable capacity. Doesn't come across well.

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If it's grueling and not fun, then why are you doing it? If whether or not it is fun is so dependent on your "co-workers" and not you, that's kind of a recipe for disaster, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. You invest way too much significance into it and get bothered way too much by the actions of others, in a way you simply shouldn't as a game.

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This whole thread was talking about basics. Expecting a healer to heal, a tank to tank, and a DPS to try to do damage..... is taking the game too seriously and therefore making it out to be a job?

Oh please...just stop this nonsense. You're gonna drive me to another existential crisis.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink, but you can decide how you respond to it. Have you referred those people to the Hall of the Novice? Have you tried to explain in the Hall's stead? Or do you just expect everyone to start the game with your current level of skill and experience? People here should keep things in proportion and stop taking responsibility for the literal thousands of other players who don't play by their standards. 'This is a game' works in two ways - one, stop demanding perfection from strangers on the internet who won't care as much as you do because it's a game and they're entitled not to care about it, you don't pay their sub. Two, stop demanding perfection on a frigging game with strangers on the internet, love yourself a little bit more.

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I literally said in my Disclaimer I don't expect perfection. Nobody should.

I have mentioned the Hall to plenty of people. A few have thanked me for it, but plenty more called me an elitist because I thought the hall would help them.

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Originally Posted by Miste

This whole thread was talking about basics. Expecting a healer to heal, a tank to tank, and a DPS to try to do damage..... is taking the game too seriously and therefore making it out to be a job?

Oh please...just stop this nonsense. You're gonna drive me to another existential crisis.

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And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

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I tank and heal my Expert. Imagine having to stop and wait for Living Dead because your healer can't heal properly if I dare DRK. Or if I Dare PLD with my main, have to Clemency myself because the healer refuses to heal me. Imagine runs taking 40+ minutes because your dps are basically auto attacking and nothing else. Or when I'm healing on AST or SCH, tanks that decide they want to be the Spell Speed PLD with no defensive abilities forcing me to spam Benefic II to keep them steady in large pulls. If they understood basics, this wouldn't happen, and part of my issue is trying to figure out how people make it this far?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Sigh...look, once you start obsessing over shoddy play and wondering why others aren't pulling their weight, you start viewing the game as a job. You invest way too much significance into it and get bothered way too much by the actions of others, in a way you simply shouldn't as a game. When I play this game, most of the time things go fine. I do all my content ok in a decent timeframe, I rarely see any real trolls, and probably the most issues I have is with PvP, but a lot of that is due to how the developer designs content. If they don't go fine...well this is a game, people aren't going to always be good, and at worst i'm out ten minutes once every 100 tries when I leave duty.

But because for a lot of people this game becomes a job, they end up just taking everything so serious even beyond what they should. You see it in Overwatch too, people so concerned with how others act because that simple end of season number is so vital to them that they create these huge myths of bad play and demonize sectors of the playerbase to deal with the stress of their job. There's some extent of developer blame as well...you don't throw random people of varying skill levels together to require high levels of coordination and play.

But ugh, I've seen years of this kind of griping. And it's dumb. People's solution to this is essentially to make the game not fun enough as to drive bad players out through game design and training. They tried that in FFXI, and yeah, a lot of people left as early as valkurm dunes. Not sure why that would work here.

And it didn't solve anything either, people griped as much there, and they completed stuff a lot less to boot.

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FFXIV is one of my favorite games, one of the few that I play in my free time. I've never taken it as a job and I don't see how anyone could see it as a job unless they're a streamer who makes their living off of playing it. I don't get paid to login, I don't have to drag myself there every day I'm supposed to be there even if I feel like crap, I don't have to set an alarm I despise every morning to wake up for it, I don't have people above me constantly breathing down my neck. I can't put FFXIV on my resume nor can I expect any career growth from it. I wonder how people define a job if it doesn't fit into that criteria? What separates a job from a game to people who make arguments like these? There are some players who lash out against whole populations of the playerbase but the majority of people in this thread alone that agree with the OP aren't like that. It has nothing to do with investing significance into the actions of others, it's asking for a basic level of decency and respect from someone who willingly joins a cooperative activity nobody is forcing them to engage in. I've never expected more than basic competence when I queue up for something from roulettes. All I expect is that people put in some sort of effort to show that they actually are aware that there's real people behind the other pixels on their screen who are depending on them to contribute a reasonable amount to the endeavor. Why do you people have such an obsession with labeling that line of thought as "work"? Life isn't so black and white that everything is sorted into "game" or "job", it's a very narrow mindset to have..

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Originally Posted by UsagiAndCrepes

Some ppl value their time because if they had more of it they could spend even more time ranting about it. That's what I'm understanding from this thread.

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You either didn't read it well enough or came into it with a jaded mindset that I find alot of players I run into doing poorly in duty finder have, that everyone is an elitist out to scrutinize them and minmax every second of their time spent in the game. Not everyone is some elitist boogyman hiding behind a corner waiting to interrogate you on why you're doing .3 dps lower than you should be, contrary to what some people in this thread may think. It kind of borders on paranoia if you feel like everyone who expects people to bring reasonable contribution to the table is an elitist looking for reasons to rant. If people would just be a bit more considerate of the people they get matched with there wouldn't be any people ranting about it because there would be nothing to rant about.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

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You sincerely underestimate the ability of one or two good players to drag a horribly subpar party through content. A good healer can compensate for a tank that can't hold aggro to save their life (or their party member's lives for that matter) and can make up for damage that a poorly playing dps isn't doing, for example. This game is designed that most content is harder to fail than it is to clear, because if it wasn't then the majority of the playerbase would struggle to even get through the story. Then these threads about people underperforming would be replaced with threads demanding content be accessible because "my sub" and "why should I have to play this game like a "job" to progress".

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Originally Posted by Alleo

So would you stay to the end of each dungeon if it needs the whole time every single run? Would you be alright if you need over 120 (?) minutes for each 24 man raid clear every single time no matter how old it is? Because as long as they clear at the end (even with just 5 sec left) its not wasted time?

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I would be fine with it. I enter any duty with assumption it could take full time. Anything less is a bonus to me.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I tank and heal my Expert. Imagine having to stop and wait for Living Dead because your healer can't heal properly if I dare DRK.?

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As of this time, I have all but 3 jobs at 70. I've played for about 3 years I think, and I had all 60s by the end of HW. Apart from basic "learning the content" that happens during the first week or two of a patch, I've not seen anywhere near the level of "being bad" people keep complaining about. I haven't abandoned leveling content once, unless someone says "nope aurum vale" and leaves at start. People are thinking the rare cases of being bad are so much worse and frequent than they really are.

The real subjects that tend to come up with this tend to be EX-level pugs. People complain because they can't find decent farm parties, or if the primal is hard enough, clears.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

I would be fine with it. I enter any duty with assumption it could take full time. Anything less is a bonus to me.

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I personally try not to assume the worst of people I haven't met yet. I understand that's a rare mentality to stick to in this day and age though...

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

As of this time, I have all but 3 jobs at 70. I've played for about 3 years I think, and I had all 60s by the end of HW. Apart from basic "learning the content" that happens during the first week or two of a patch, I've not seen anywhere near the level of "being bad" people keep complaining about. I haven't abandoned leveling content once, unless someone says "nope aurum vale" and leaves at start. People are thinking the rare cases of being bad are so much worse and frequent than they really are.

The real subjects that tend to come up with this tend to be EX-level pugs. People complain because they can't find decent farm parties, or if the primal is hard enough, clears.

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Regrettably, there are things in this world that happen even though you don't see them personally.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If it's grueling and not fun, then why are you doing it? If whether or not it is fun is so dependent on your "co-workers" and not you, that's kind of a recipe for disaster, isn't it?

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number one , it's an extreme case that something is torture for someone is fun for another. Let me put it another way: for some the fun is getting the runs done efficiently and quickly. Others like collecting items. There are people though that dislike both of these activities.

and I said OTHERS.. as in someone finds something fun that OTHER people might not like. It's NOT work for them, it's entertaining, engaging and fun. To a degree ANY cooperative multiplayer experience is dependent on your teammates. That's what coop is. OP said he can deal with mediocre, just not actively obstinate and deficient.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

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oh.. you didn't read the post. OK.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

And people do the basics fine. If they don't, you'd be all complaining about how half of your expert runs end in failure, or how you have to do everything in statics because you can't even trust the duty finder for a simple leveling roulette. People really overrate how many bad players there are, and how often they show up in normal play. My guess is that the OP is tired of yet another farm party wiping, probably shinryu ex.

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They don't all end in failure because people who play <20% effectiveness eventually get backpacked by others. Just the truth of the matter. Those are the players where if everyone else played at <20% like them you'd likely be unable to clear the content. So the others are picking up the slack so the group still clears.

I don't think there is as much exaggeration as you think there is. Going by my experiences over 4 years all I can say is I have seen a lot of things...things that cannot be unseen. Happens often enough where I usually worry when I have to queue for DF.

I am not talking about people not playing perfectly or anything either since no one should expect perfection, just basics at 50-70 like a tank holding hate, a healer keeping people alive most of the time, DPS who are obviously trying to do damage (IE: not just spamming one button over and over). I am a very lenient person and I don't have much expectations and my standards are quite low and yet still people have surprised me in DF often enough :/

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

As of this time, I have all but 3 jobs at 70. I've played for about 3 years I think, and I had all 60s by the end of HW. Apart from basic "learning the content" that happens during the first week or two of a patch, I've not seen anywhere near the level of "being bad" people keep complaining about. I haven't abandoned leveling content once, unless someone says "nope aurum vale" and leaves at start. People are thinking the rare cases of being bad are so much worse and frequent than they really are.

The real subjects that tend to come up with this tend to be EX-level pugs. People complain because they can't find decent farm parties, or if the primal is hard enough, clears.

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Not stating it's every case. I'm not saying it's common. This was me ranting over how many time I've gotten it overall. I can WAY too much go give (I remember 3.1 having a bunch of VIT geared DRG's. 3.3 kept seeing WHM's, MCH's, and SMN's use knockback to throw tank and melee dps off.)

In fact, the whole reason I posted it was to rant. To get something off. I honestly was able to continue after posting this, where originally I would have just stopped bothering to queue.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

If people would just be a bit more considerate of the people they get matched with there wouldn't be any people ranting about it because there would be nothing to rant about.

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You can't change other ppl you can only change how you react. They rant because they do, they have conspiracy theories because they do. You can only change yourself.

Accept how things are and let go, or always have something to rant about. That's not my decision to make, I'm just eating popcorn and chit chatting.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

They're on the forums while at wor...I mean they seem bored all the time? >.>

*Is not currently surfing the forums from work, and procrastinating doing things at all...don't know what you're talking about*

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I think I only surf these forums at work. :P

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Originally Posted by UsagiAndCrepes

You can't change other ppl you can only change how you react. They rant because they do, they have conspiracy theories because they do. You can only change yourself.

Accept how things are and let go, or always have something to rant about. That's not my decision to make, I'm just eating popcorn and chit chatting.

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There's a difference between not accepting reality and hoping it improves.

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Originally Posted by Miste

They don't all end in failure because people who play <20% effectiveness eventually get backpacked by others.

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The only case where this is even possible is dps, and again, it doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people say it does. People assume 70% is 20%. They see a tank that pulls slow, and its the worst thing in the world.

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FFXIV is one of my favorite games, one of the few that I play in my free time. I've never taken it as a job and I don't see how anyone could see it as a job unless they're a streamer who makes their living off of playing it. I don't get paid to login, I don't have to drag myself there every day I'm supposed to be there even if I feel like crap, I don't have to set an alarm I despise every morning to wake up for it, I don't have people above me constantly breathing down my neck. I can't put FFXIV on my resume nor can I expect any career growth from it. I wonder how people define a job if it doesn't fit into that criteria? What separates a job from a game to people who make arguments like these?

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They invest too much into a game, and draw the same kind of rewards from it as if it was a job they loved. They talk about it more like a job than a game, using language like earn, rewards (i.e. pay), slacking, and being lazy. It is possible to love your job, and people do define themselves by what they do. If the rl job sucks, well the mmo job substitute fills the gap.

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

There's a difference between not accepting reality and hoping it improves.

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Do you actually think it will? Will this thread change it?

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The only case where this is even possible is dps, and again, it doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people say it does. People assume 70% is 20%. They see a tank that pulls slow, and its the worst thing in the world.



They invest too much into a game, and draw the same kind of rewards from it as if it was a job they loved. They talk about it more like a job than a game, using language like earn, rewards (i.e. pay), slacking, and being lazy. It is possible to love your job, and people do define themselves by what they do. If the rl job sucks, well the mmo job substitute fills the gap.

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Earn/rewards/slacking/lazy aren't job exclusive terms...

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Originally Posted by UsagiAndCrepes

Do you actually think it will? Will this thread change it?

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Do I think this thread will change it? No, not at all. It may make one or two people who see it think but other than that it will make no difference. Do I think it will? Judging by the responses in this thread, absolutely not.

Stupidest thread ever. People should be able to play how they want to. There are players of every skill level. There are too many people like yourself that ridicule others because they don't or aren't capable of playing to your competitive level.

Are you good at everything? Have you ever not played / done anything where you weren't good at but still did so anyway because it was enjoyable? And how would it make you feel if you did your best but it just wasn't good enough? Quit being so competitive and just play the game already.

If they do a new version of Hall, I would hope it would teach what the various ae markers used in higher level duties signify.

I'd say the main problem is the game doesn't give you much feedback on how you're doing in normal content. Barring the occasional hiccup in the solo duties (and even then, most failures are due to not understanding a gimmick in the duty than playing your job badly) you can go right through the main scenario with no idea you aren't doing well since everything is being cleared. A 40 minute dungeon run is bad for people used to 20 minutes but for others that might just be a normal run so they have no idea it's slow.
Add on to that that a lot of people don't take criticism well and you have a recipe for not wanting to improve.

I guess SE could try to fix it by making job quests more oriented towards practicing your new skills or a mandatory Hall of the Novice sort of thing for each job before you can queue with it. I can't see such a thing being implemented now going over well with the community. Or at least the parts that really need it.
The "not treating the game like a job" mentality to me sounds the person isn't interested in studying rotations or researching their job and just wants to play. And at the end of the day we can't force anyone else to look at outside resources or even read their in game tool tips. They would need to want to improve for themselves which isn't likely when the game has no real walls demanding minimal competence in normal content.

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Originally Posted by Xeon

Stupidest thread ever. People should be able to play how they want to. There are players of every skill level. There are too many people like yourself that ridicule others because they don't or aren't capable of playing to your competitive level.

Are you good at everything? Have you ever not played / done anything where you weren't good at but still did so anyway because it was enjoyable? And how would it make you feel if you did your best but it just wasn't good enough? Quit being so competitive and just play the game already.

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You can actually determine level of intelligence and reading comprehension based on the replies to this thread. The OP has gone on multiple times to state that he was talking about the most extreme cases, that he didn't expect perfection or near perfection, and has stated he is not the greatest player.

I feel a bit nauseous every time some moron comes into this thread with this kind of hostile attitude when the OP very specifically included examples like

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

I'm talking about the BLM that spams Thunder. The WAR that presses only Butcher's Block (NOT the combo line, just the Butcher.)

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Oh boy, that Warrior sure is on a different level of skill. He is so poor at this game that he is incapable of understanding something that is explained to you in a text tutorial and literally glows on your hotbar every time you attempt to do it. A combo. He can't even do his job in the slightest, yet somehow it's OP and everyone else's faults for expecting him to. Everyone should simply leave him alone, he's not being lazy or anything at all, he's simply just playing the game "his way," and he's incapable of doing more, it's beyond his skill range. He is incapable of something I could do before I even knew multiplication as a child.

I swear, it's like the grand majority of forum posters have brains that are completely dysfunctional.

Think before you post, for the love of god.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

They never nerfed it (as far as I recall), and said they wouldn't nerf it. I applaud them on that, because everybody knows that iLevel increases are the biggest nerf to old content. You don't need to nerf a tough fight when the increased survivability and damage you get with each gear upgrade is more than enough to nerf the fight into Oblivion...see Praetorium for examples, people used to die all the time during the Ultima fights, and when the tomestones changed, that stopped really quickly.

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I wouldn't place money on them not nerfing it, especially as they get closer to the next expansion. The quote from their rep to polygon I dropped earlier indicates they are keeping on eye on the complaint volume.

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Originally Posted by Oscura

I swear, it's like the grand majority of forum posters have brains that are completely dysfunctional.

Think before you post, for the love of god.

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I will bet you a house on Balmung that none of these people spouting the "you don't pay my sub" rhetoric or saying that OP is elitist, actually comprehended or even READ the first post.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

The entirely optional hall that I see so many newer players skip, while people who already know it all do it because the ring is good.

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lol! All that gear is good. It's like a full set of dungeon drops.

I think this thread encompasses entirely why it's acceptable, defended and borderline encouraged on top of showing prime examples of such players. Sadly just like in the forum, you get chastised in game for calling out such players.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

The only case where this is even possible is dps, and again, it doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people say it does.

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Are we even playing the same game? It's not only DPS....the fact that you don't understand the ways people can backpack others to a clear is telling.

Tanks can get backpacked by good healers. I myself have been on healer and I tanked and healed dungeons since the tank didn't know how to hold hate. I performed two roles in order to get through the runs and that was in 50+ dungeons. If I couldn't play healer at a high enough skill level to heal myself and keep myself alive (or keep a DPS who had hate alive) that run would have failed since I would be dead every pull and the party would wipe with no healer. So since I did the tank's job for them...aren't I backpacking them? Pretty sure I am.

Also have you forgotten 8 man content? Because at 70 on healer I have basically solo healed a lot of 8 man DF content since the other healer was dead weight either not healing at all (when we needed it) or dead all the time, yet no new player bonus. I backpack healers when that happens. If I am doing 90% of the required healing and the other healer is only doing 10% and doing zero DPS then are they doing their job? I would say they are being backpacked by my healing since they should likely be trying to do at least half of the healing burden since that is why content has two healers. Solo healing Shinryu normal in i290 gear isn't easy by the way.

I just votekick them.
I usually group with at least one other like minded individual so most of the time the motion passes.

Ever since the clarification by the devs/GMs that you can remove people from groups for not having the same type of gameplay in mind, there's not a care in my mind.



It's just better for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F_Maximillian

Do I think this thread will change it? No, not at all. It may make one or two people who see it think but other than that it will make no difference. Do I think it will? Judging by the responses in this thread, absolutely not.

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So you can choose to experience outrage or acceptance, it's up to you really.

The net product seems to remain the same either way however.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

well the mmo job substitute fills the gap.

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Are you good at what you are doing? I think I know the answer. Out from what I quoted you, I know excactly what the answer is.

I imagine that those jump potions might have something to do with it.

This game has a massive overarching storyline with MANY chapters. New players just getting into the game likely have several hundred hours of quests before they even have an inkling that expert roulette is a thing. SE is right to think that this could be considered offputting to a lot of people. Unfortunately, by letting everyone skip those quests, now we are getting the people who would have gotten bored or impatient or are just thinking impaired. We got a choice between bad players or no players and the MSQ isnt getting any shorter. This is the textbook definition of lesser of two evils