Again the regen thing! Wasn't it gone and done?

If ya can't hold da mobs

don't pull da mobs

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Yep. That's right. When you try providing helpful tips and you're met with hostility/bad attitude, this is the jaded mentality that eventually surfaces.

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That's okay. You are still adorable. ;)

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Originally Posted by Jib

If you pull 3 mobs then continue to run to get other 3 mobs I will put a regen after the first pack.

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To me it's fine, when pulling more groups I'll make sure to flash the current group before next one. Because while running the ranged dps can start (if he wants) its work without wait the full group settled. If settling takes time I'd expect the dps being pro enough to stop when his targets switch to orange aggro because I got slow on settling (for any reason).

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Originally Posted by Hen-Hen

/statusoff regen
/statusoff "medica II"
/statusoff "aspected benefic"
/statusoff "aspected helios"
/statusoff "whispering dawn"

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That recalls me about the skill bloating, why don't just have one skill, "Regen", instead of one million.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

As a tank main from beta phase all the way to 3.2, I have to agree that tanks should get good. Even in the old days when emnity still needed watching out, I had no trouble pulling with regen as long as the healer wasn't rushing ahead of me. Now with buffs to tank enmity, there's even less trouble.

Learn to pull. Seriously.

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Pretty sure it's Healer 101 not to Regen/Medica II before/immediately after a pull. The fault doesn't lie entirely with tanks.

Also, OP, not to make light of your plight, but I'm making a funny video about healers. . . I can use this :)

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

If only they would actually listen though. No matter how politely I've phrased it, over and over again people will either ignore me or give me some variation of "do your job I'll do mine / you don't pay my sub kthx". I'm sad I finished leveling all my healers so now I have to trust other people in DF...

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Quit the dungeon then and try again.

Can't you just right click the hot off?

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Originally Posted by Legion88

It was never gone to be honest.
As long as we will getting new players or unexperienced players who choose to be healer, so long we will see the regen just before the pull.

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Or you have healers who know exactly what happens if the apply regen before the pull just to see the tank sweat. :rolleyes:

@SturmChurro Yes you can, but lets be honest its freaking annoying if you klick that off and the healer puts it instant on you again, and yes that happens pretty often.

Best way to avoid this is get yourself a pocket healer. I've had the same healer for about 7 years now.( She followed me from wow several years ago... And Oregon.. She is my wife now.)

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

That recalls me about the skill bloating, why don't just have one skill, "Regen", instead of one million.

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Because we only have one skill named Regen, which belongs to White Mages.

Medica II is not the same as Regen, nor is Aspected Benefic, Aspected Helios or Whispering Dawn. Yes each of those skills is a heal over time but potencies and cooldowns (in the case of Whispering Dawn) are not always identical and some of those are aoe skills vs single target.

You're basically asking for healers to be homogenized even further and all have the same spell for healing over time. Also consider that if Regen was unified across the healers and skills, you would not be able to stack Regen and Medica II's hot. Or Aspected Benefic/Helios.

When I was tanking, I never saw this as an issue. When I heal now, I do try to be mindful of it, but not because I can't but because many tanks play in a manner that prohibits it. But my view is this :

If you haven't hit them with any skills, you haven't pulled you just ran into a room full of mobs. If you hit them with a skill this isn't an issue. When I pull I am always tabbing and dropping an overpower/flash or tomahawk/shield lob at stragglers. With practice you can do so without stopping and it just makes the run easier to deal with as everyone can do whatever it is they need to do whenever they need to.

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

When I was tanking, I never saw this as an issue. When I heal now, I do try to be mindful of it, but not because I can't but because many tanks play in a manner that prohibits it. But my view is this :

If you haven't hit them with any skills, you haven't pulled you just ran into a room full of mobs. If you hit them with a skill this isn't an issue. When I pull I am always tabbing and dropping an overpower/flash or tomahawk/shield lob at stragglers. With practice you can do so without stopping and it just makes the run easier to deal with as everyone can do whatever it is they need to do whenever they need to.

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Well yes its not a problem for a tank who has experience in tanking and IF the tank sees it soon enough. For someone who has no experience it will have trouble to get hate of the mobs and we all know how it ends then.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Or you have healers who know exactly what happens if the apply regen before the pull just to see the tank sweat. :rolleyes:

@SturmChurro Yes you can, but lets be honest its freaking annoying if you klick that off and the healer puts it instant on you again, and yes that happens pretty often.

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Granted occasionally I'll put it on and then the tank will go and pul more after a couple seconds in one group.

This is a communication issue at heart. While a few of these are bad folks dumping out early regens, more than one of these are likely healers that thought the tank had stopped to set up shop and so put out their regen with intent to dps. Then suddenly the tank moves on causing a pregen for the next trash pack. Even with communication this might still happen, only time I know it won't happen is if I am running with tanks I know.

Mistakes happen but just straight up casting regen before pulls never should.

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Can't you just right click the hot off?

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Not all of us use a mouse to play. Controller player here, and clicking buffs off with a controller is really cumbersome.

Back when I would tank, I always manually cancelled any regen on me before a pull to save me the headache.

If they always do it right before you pull/flash/whatever, definitely tell them what not to do. You don't have to just put up with it. Tank queue's are fast anyway so it's not much of a hit to just leave if they don't cooperate.

I never tanked dungeons that were more trouble than they were worth.

Yeah, Pregening healers can be a real annoyance for pulls, it's doable, but it's honestly a completely unnecessary thing for healers to do. I've got plenty of HP at the beginning of a pull, there's no need to start throwing regen at me before I've even started pulling.

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

Yeah, Pregening healers can be a real annoyance for pulls, it's doable, but it's honestly a completely unnecessary thing for healers to do. I've got plenty of HP at the beginning of a pull, there's no need to start throwing regen at me before I've even started pulling.

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I'll put a hot sometimes after pull so I can cast some DoTs on the mob. Though, I've found it more useful to just precast aero 3, then just start healing. I'll usually wait a couple seconds before putting a HoT on anymore, sometimes the tank decides to do giant pulls like I said before.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Not all of us use a mouse to play. Controller player here, and clicking buffs off with a controller is really cumbersome.

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For the most part, until you get used to it, I agree. If PS4 controller, the middle pad can be clicked until the selector is on your buff/debuff bar, then just D-pad over until on it, and hit X. Not sure about other types of controller if you're doing using a controller while on PC.

[QUOTE=LalaRu;4373867]They are returning back!
The healers that haven't nothing other to do than put a regen on you the instant before you are taking aggro from a group of mobs./QUOTE]

The game never actually tells healers not to do this.

I realized that during a Dusk Vigil run a few weeks ago. At no point in ANY of the healer storylines, the guildhests, or anything does an NPC say "Don't cast a regen before your tank pulls." It's not in the help text either.

So the reason that healers do it is because nobody ever tells them not to do it!

(Thankfully my healer in DV was very accepting and stopped once I explained why it was bad.)

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Originally Posted by Catwho

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

They are returning back!
The healers that haven't nothing other to do than put a regen on you the instant before you are taking aggro from a group of mobs.

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The game never actually tells healers not to do this.

I realized that during a Dusk Vigil run a few weeks ago. At no point in ANY of the healer storylines, the guildhests, or anything does an NPC say "Don't cast a regen before your tank pulls." It's not in the help text either.

So the reason that healers do it is because nobody ever tells them not to do it!

(Thankfully my healer in DV was very accepting and stopped once I explained why it was bad.)

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There is a ton of things the game does not tell you. Regen only generates a crap ton of hate when it tics, if someone is coming from FFXI, you can spam regen and nothing happens. Also in FFXI, you got hate based on the amount you healed someone for, unless it was the special case of cure V, here you get hate with the amount the spell heals for, meaning you get hate with overhealing, something the game does not tell you.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Granted occasionally I'll put it on and then the tank will go and pul more after a couple seconds in one group.

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Thats a different story and not really your fault if he stops and then decides to pull more. But there are these healers who spam these skills like crazy people before eeeeeeeeeeeeeevery pull and it gets really annoying to klick it away all the time just to have it back up in 1 or 2 seconds. ;)

Stuff like this should be mentioned in the hall of novice, even better if it would be a tooltip for all hots.

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For the most part, until you get used to it, I agree. If PS4 controller, the middle pad can be clicked until the selector is on your buff/debuff bar, then just D-pad over until on it, and hit X.

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I know how to do it with a PS4 controller. If you don't think that method of buff removal is extremely cumbersome, well, congratulations; you are blessed with far greater tolerance than me.

"You don't pay my sub so stop telling me how to play"

You also don't pay the $45 for the other three people so if you wanna waste your $15 go ahead, but good luck finding other people who will accept that. /votekick

Its the blessing of doing 4 man content with a group of 3. Especially since when I'm not playing healer I'm playing red mage who can substitute for a healer for the most part.

Try as I might to help make this game a better place to "live" per say I can only do so much. I have no qualms with helping people out in the world or giving them a healer que if they're a dps. This is a game and if you care about it like I do, you need to treat it like a sport or other hobby: practice. You will leave your comfort zone and deal with unsavory people no matter what. I work retail so trust me, unsavory is very mild to say the least.

If you're unwilling to learn to adapt or to accept criticism then you should stop playing this game. I hate having to say these kinds of things, but they still hold true.

If you're at work and suddenly decide to leave what do you think happens? You get fired.
What happens when you disrespect customers as an employee? You get demerit'd and fired if its done too many times.
You think your boss will just sit back and take your baggage about how your life sucks? Nope. They might try to listen and work it out but, just like in game, there's not too many of those around anymore.

We ALL have problems and turn to video games to escape despite how realistic interacting in an MMO is. You are more than welcome to respectfully disagree, but if everyone else wants something else and you refuse to adapt... well you just got fired. If you get fired from enough things(dungeons, raid groups, etc) you should probably take a look at yourself and ask what you could be doing.

Again, I vehemently dislike saying that people should stop playing the game, but those that hide behind the excuses of paying subs and worrying about more than what you're playing really should stop and look at themselves lest they get a platinum promise band to the receiving end of the vote dismiss.

I want this game to go back to how it was in early 2.x where a lot of people were super friendly and helped each other with a lot more things. Back when the community was so much more positive. I know its never coming back so its wishful thinking though...

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Stuff like this should be mentioned in the hall of novice, even better if it would be a tooltip for all hots.

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How adorable! They think the average player reads AND comprehends their tooltips!

I mean aggro generation is a fuzzy concept at best for people new to the genre. Attacking the monster and getting its attention is easy to understand. So is the harder you hit the monster, the more it pays attention to you. Tanks have modifiers on their skills to help them keep the monster's attention even though they (should) do less damage than DPS... kinda obtuse, but most will get it. Healing your allies also gets monster attention, and lots of it- huh? The small heals that keep ticking over time generate a ton of monster attention? What? Why? It's there for mechanical reasons, not for logical ones in most cases- dumb beasts attack what's attacking them, not the guy who's ignoring them to heal their allies right? So I give new players the benefit of the doubt.

For the vets and the people who ignore me when I tell them to stop that nonsense- I hope they stub their toes and eventually learn why they shouldn't do it by getting one of those Pregen healers if they ever try to tank.

You know... I get HoTs on me before pulls all the time. And I have never had issues with picking up mobs. A single Flash is enough to obliterate any aggro a healer could've done.

Are Paladins just that good at picking up aggro, or are so many tanks just bad?

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Originally Posted by Dameron

You know... I get HoTs on me before pulls all the time. And I have never had issues with picking up mobs. A single Flash is enough to obliterate any aggro a healer could've done.

Are Paladins just that good at picking up aggro, or are so many tanks just bad?

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Flash's enmity multiplier is just underpants on head retarded since it does no damage. Its really good at agro generation now. The only issue is that there's always that 1 mob that doesn't get hit by it for whatever reason. XD

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Originally Posted by Dameron

You know... I get HoTs on me before pulls all the time. And I have never had issues with picking up mobs. A single Flash is enough to obliterate any aggro a healer could've done.

Are Paladins just that good at picking up aggro, or are so many tanks just bad?

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So many tanks are just bad. I never used to have a problem with regens on pull either, while tanking the entirety of HW & most of ARR.

Granted I have made the switch back to DPS this patch.. I imagine not much has changed aside from WAR losing Flash.

Just like you don't want a DPS who runs in front of the Tank taking aggro you also don't want a silly Healer who spams Regen without any reason just before the big pull. It's exactly the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

Just like you don't want a DPS who runs in front of the Tank taking aggro you also don't want a silly Healer who spams Regen without any reason just before the big pull. It's exactly the same thing.

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I just wait until the DPS dies, unless I have a healer stupid enough to heal him.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

You know... I get HoTs on me before pulls all the time. And I have never had issues with picking up mobs. A single Flash is enough to obliterate any aggro a healer could've done.

Are Paladins just that good at picking up aggro, or are so many tanks just bad?

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Do you face pull with Flash, or Shield Lob first?

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Originally Posted by Altena

So many tanks are just bad. I never used to have a problem with regens on pull either, while tanking the entirety of HW & most of ARR.

Granted I have made the switch back to DPS this patch.. I imagine not much has changed aside from WAR losing Flash.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

You know... I get HoTs on me before pulls all the time. And I have never had issues with picking up mobs. A single Flash is enough to obliterate any aggro a healer could've done.

Are Paladins just that good at picking up aggro, or are so many tanks just bad?

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Just wondering, but did you read any of the 15 pages? Because people explained
why this is annoying. Nothing to do with bad tanks.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Just wondering, but did you read any of the 15 pages? Because people explained
why this is annoying. Nothing to do with bad tanks.

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I have not read all 15 pages - but in my experience, a good tank can function perfectly well during pulls whether they have Regen on or not. I still consider it bad form for a healer to cast Regen during a pull, but it's enough of a non-issue for me that I neither complain, nor click it off before pulling. I'm aware I have Regen on, and I know who the mobs are going to beeline for. That gives me all I need to know to intercept them, while still keeping up the pace. Same goes for leftover Regen after finishing off a pack of mobs, which it's much harder to blame a healer for.

If I miss out on the fact that I have Regen on and mess up a pull, I consider that to be as much my bad (for not paying attention) as the healer's.

IMHO, only actually healed HP should cause threat. Casting a HOT on someone with full HP shouldn't do anything to the aggro list. That's how it works in other games, where you can be proactive as a healer and maybe buy a few seconds to do other things. The way it is, it's a bit counterintuitive.

Yeah.
Git gud.

Seriously though. You sound like you are lazy af and dont want to have to ever get aggro back.
Enmity is your job, playa. If i were your healer id let you wipe.

This thread is still going?! :)

This is so simple. Regen pre pull is silly, is annoying. If a healer does it for whatever reason then the healer should be close/next to tank, so mobs can easily be picked up.
A healer doing constant pre pull regen and not moving or running away from tank and a tank being noob enough not to be able to pick up adds are both bad players.

/end

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

If only they would actually listen though. No matter how politely I've phrased it, over and over again people will either ignore me or give me some variation of "do your job I'll do mine

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Originally Posted by micropanther7

Nothing you can do about those kind of people unfortunately

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1) Pull a few targets.
2) Wait for the Regen to tick.
3) Allow the healer to take aggro and die swiftly.
4) /laugh at their corpse.

I just click off the regen. I don't play tank- if I'm playing it, I'm either leveling it, using it for the cluster, or am pulling someone else through leveling. I have no intention of "git gud"-ing on a role I simply don't like. Which, let's take a moment here and be serious. Simply saying "git gud" in regard to having a regen on you while first engaging mobs is the healer simply telling the tank to compensate for a lazy, incompetent playstyle that can lead to some very needlessly risky situations. The "git gud" is honestly better directed at the healer who would ever utter this phrase. The irony.

Healer wise, if I've done this, which I have, but not at pre-pull, I run right next to the tank and even stand right on top of them. Eh, I've misjudged tanks stopping to get a better aggro hold for I'm stopping here with this group. Even before I ever picked up a tank, I understood running away from the tank is a stupid decision. Dungeons aren't the same as pre-pull regens for being able to pot and dish out enough DPS to make sure you don't hit enrage. Come on now.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I have not read all 15 pages - but in my experience, a good tank can function perfectly well during pulls whether they have Regen on or not. I still consider it bad form for a healer to cast Regen during a pull, but it's enough of a non-issue for me that I neither complain, nor click it off before pulling. I'm aware I have Regen on, and I know who the mobs are going to beeline for. That gives me all I need to know to intercept them, while still keeping up the pace. Same goes for leftover Regen after finishing off a pack of mobs, which it's much harder to blame a healer for.

If I miss out on the fact that I have Regen on and mess up a pull, I consider that to be as much my bad (for not paying attention) as the healer's.

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Have I missed a memo or something about not using Regen on trash pulls AT ALL? I'm talking after they've pulled humongous packs, not a handful of mobs. Apologies if I misread your meaning :) I usually PoM/Aero 3, assize if it's off cooldown, few holys, maybe use benediction/eye for an eye/regen if the tank's out of cooldowns. I usually chuck a regen on extra squishies as well, and have had yet to rip hate off the tank to the extent some people are suggesting in this thread, aggro bar rarely moves (maybe if I'm level synced down into Cutter's Cry :p Then again I'm extra careful there and in other lower level dungeons, new tanks learning and all that). Depends on the tank really, if they're new to the instance and finding their feet, it's just adjusting to each other's flow. Healers and tanks should support each other!!

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

1) Pull a few targets.
2) Wait for the Regen to tick.
3) Allow the healer to take aggro and die swiftly.
4) /laugh at their corpse.

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LOL evil :D

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Originally Posted by micropanther7

Have I missed a memo or something about not using Regen on trash pulls AT ALL? I'm talking after they've pulled humongous packs, not a handful of mobs. Apologies if I misread your meaning :) I usually PoM/Aero 3, assize if it's off cooldown, few holys, maybe use benediction/eye for an eye/regen if the tank's out of cooldowns. I usually chuck a regen on extra squishies as well, and have had yet to rip hate off the tank to the extent some people are suggesting in this thread, aggro bar rarely moves (maybe if I'm level synced down into Cutter's Cry :p Then again I'm extra careful there and in other lower level dungeons, new tanks learning and all that). Depends on the tank really, if they're new to the instance and finding their feet, it's just adjusting to each other's flow. Healers and tanks should support each other!!

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I think you must be misreading me. Absolutely, Regen should be used while fighting trash mobs. It's one of, if not THE most MP efficient cures in the game. It's just best to wait on casting it until the tank has performed some kind of enmity-generating action on EVERY mob in the pack. However, it was also my point that a good tank will be able to maintain control over every mob in the pack even if the healer does NOT wait. To such a tank, having Regen active during a pull is a minor inconvenience, at worst.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think you must be misreading me. Absolutely, Regen should be used while fighting trash mobs. It's one of, if not THE most MP efficient cures in the game. It's just best to wait on casting it until the tank has performed some kind of enmity-generating action on EVERY mob in the pack. However, it was also my point that a good tank will be able to maintain control over every mob in the pack even if the healer does NOT wait. To such a tank, having Regen active during a pull is a minor inconvenience, at worst.

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Ah yeah I was misreading thank you for the clarification :)