Mark of Tanaka

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Errr all tanaka can ever create is mobs with overpowered AoE and crap drop rates. Let's leave him out of this game as much as possible.

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Now that is not really fare, I loved what he did with FFXI (mostly) and after he left to do FFXIV, Abyssea was created and ruined it for me. At the same time, I did not like where he was going with FFXIV, it seemed like he was trying to do to many things at once, and in the long run half of it did not work out. Yoshi doing 90% of the game, and Tanaka thinking about events and dungeons, that would yield some interesting results.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm suggesting that having Tanaka-san develop content like HNM, Dungeons, etc... would result in some great content for the game. I don't think it would be backtracking for SE either. He is already VP in charge of software development, so its not exactly a leap for him to directly involve himself in the project.

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I understood. What i meant is that it would actually turn out to be an inconvenience to dev team and a bit of discredit to SE having him back to FFXIV after he already left, not because he's better or worse than Yoshida, but because it would hurt Yoshida's credibility.

Imagine a basketball team...you had a team and they lost the 2 first games...the fans started bashing the team and the owner replaced the coach and some players...a while after, even with the new team they aren't winning as it was expected. In this situation, bringing the former coach back, even if co-ed with the new one, would actually cause more issues than solutions because, even with an hierarchy, interest conflicts should arise.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Now that is not really fare, I loved what he did with FFXI (mostly) and after he left to do FFXIV, Abyssea was created and ruined it for me. At the same time, I did not like where he was going with FFXIV, it seemed like he was trying to do to many things at once, and in the long run half of it did not work out. Yoshi doing 90% of the game, and Tanaka thinking about events and dungeons, that would yield some interesting results.

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I also think Tanaka did an awesome work in FFXI and the issue at FFXIV was actually just time. The former dev team had no time to actually finish the game...this was the real issue of original FFXIV...the game never was finished because Yoshida took over before the "retail patch" that was meant to complete FFXIV for release was live...

I don't like the idea of them co-ing tho...if Yoshida actually kept the original FFXIV going and just improved it, it would be perfectly plausible, but by the time he decided to replace the game with another one i don't think it would be good to neither SE, dev team nor the gaame itself they working together in it. Just look at Abyssea...it's what happens when a director actually does not fully understand the concepts or share the view of the former director.

That's why i'd rather have Tanaka and Yoshida following their own paths in different games, even if Tanaka one is spin-off (would have to so he can keep eorzean lore...would also be good to create a seal similar to Ivalice Alliance one, allowing lore to be fully shared between games), because i'm sure Tanaka's FFXIV would be great.

And, for those who don't like the "Tanaka way" of dealing with stuff, there would aways be the Yoshida's 2.0 for them. Having they both running different games would actually add options to players, being healthier to SE, FF brand and to the players.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

That's why i'd rather have Tanaka and Yoshida following their own paths in different games, even if Tanaka one is spin-off (would have to so he can keep eorzean lore...would also be good to create a seal similar to Ivalice Alliance one, allowing lore to be fully shared between games), because i'm sure Tanaka's FFXIV would be great.

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i'd love to see tanaka get a spin off where he finished his original vision of the game. i'd be there in an instant to get my copy of it.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'd love to see tanaka get a spin off where he finished his original vision of the game. i'd be there in an instant to get my copy of it.

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So would i ^^ I would buy Tanaka's FFXIV again without thinking twice, just like i did the first time. ^^

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Originally Posted by Lienn

not because he's better or worse than Yoshida, but because it would hurt Yoshida's credibility.

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Agreed Yoshi-P doesn't deserve any sort of discredit for the fine job he has done so far.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

the game never was finished because Yoshida took over before the "retail patch" that was meant to complete FFXIV for release was live...

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What retail patch was that? When the game went live I never saw any official mention of a patch that was supposed to finish the game. All I was able to find were references to some game changes planned for winter right after the launch. I had heard a rumor that there were a lot of quests that were supposed to be released with the production launch, but the rumor didn't pan out. I have no idea if that rumor was based on statements from anyone at SE.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Just look at Abyssea...it's what happens when a director actually does not fully understand the concepts or share the view of the former director.

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Personally I didn't like abyssea, but I have to admit it did have a lot of good ideas. It also opened up the game for a great many people who played but felt shut out of gear drops from endgame events that took far too much of a time commitment.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Errr all tanaka can ever create is mobs with overpowered AoE and crap drop rates. Let's leave him out of this game as much as possible.

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FF XI was a great game and was very addictive, so I don't think its fair to say that of Tanaka. The only thing I can think that was wrong with XI when I started was the rmt, and they were as much a problem as they were because the game was so good they got a lot of business from it.

This thread is like Americans blaming Obama for the pathetic state of their country. They don't know any better but somebody must be found to take the blame nonetheless.

At least it is a real person and not The Devil or something. Still as accurate though.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This thread is like Americans blaming Obama for the pathetic state of their country. They don't know any better but somebody must be found to take the blame nonetheless.

At least it is a real person and not The Devil or something. Still as accurate though.

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It's well known that Tanaka pretty much "Fell on his sword" for SE. Not only did disgruntled players need a target for their hate that was not Square Enix as a whole, so did investors and whatnot.

By laying the blame on a replaceable part of the process (A single man) It's far easier to assure consumers and stockholders that you have everything under control. While Tanaka may have had final say on many things we would scoff at today, he also probably still has many systems in place now and in the future players will enjoy without knowing it was at the end of the day his doing.

Yoshida as a shining new star gives everyone something to look forward to watching grow. We have seen Yoshida taking his first baby-steps in his new roll and even now we are starting to see him grow comfortable in his position and being far less timid in his statements. To think Tanaka has been locked out of the FFXIV development offices is silly, but many people will continue to think he was locked in a small cell for his misdeeds to all MMO-kind.

It will continue until SE needs someone to swoop in and either save a project or come out of left field with something "Edgy". That's probably SE's line of thinking on this issue.

Tanaka still has a role in XIV's development. He is in the credits with a position in handling Business relations or something like that.

Producer's job is to handle budget and maintain schedule. Unless his position significantly differs from that of most people under the title of Producer in Japanese game development, he has had no part in the actual game design of neither XI or XIV.

Perhaps if the moogle pre requisites were expressed in a more positive way they would be acceptable. Such as, defeating each NM adds a percentage increase to drop rate to weapons or guarantees for each player 1 nut per NM killed in the pre requisite.

This is similar to surplus xp that was expressed in a negative fashion, and accumulated surplus xp should have given a bonus (but the bonus was never decided or implemented, and the whole system was removed in the end).

I am sure the dev's are stumped at the moment. The pre-requisites are no different than say Sky, Sea, ZNMs from 11 for example (farming something before an actual boss fight). If we start removing the pre-requisites we will never have content like that which people ask for. Another way which could have been more acceptable was have the moogle battlefield a larger instance in itself with all the NMs inside the BC, you can fight them or ignore them and go straight for the moogles in a clearing or something - people would then be applauding SE for complex BCs I'm sure. Lose lose situation x.x

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

This thread is like Americans blaming Obama for the pathetic state of their country. They don't know any better but somebody must be found to take the blame nonetheless.

At least it is a real person and not The Devil or something. Still as accurate though.

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I'm very real.

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Foreign sites have lots of false rumors. They throw together words and fabricate remarks. Then Japanese sites take this and further [falsify it through] mistranslation. The fatigue point criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the actual [system] and is just full of wild ideas.

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:rolleyes:

you really want him back?

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Originally Posted by Ilean

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Foreign sites have lots of false rumors. They throw together words and fabricate remarks. Then Japanese sites take this and further [falsify it through] mistranslation. The fatigue point criticism has absolutely nothing to do with the actual [system] and is just full of wild ideas.

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:rolleyes:

you really want him back? <-- I c wut u did thar

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Oh, snap!

You have earned the achievement: Tanaka Epic Twitter Fail - 20 pts

I think we will continue to see a lot of time sinks in the games current form. they want to add minimal content and keep focussed on the progression of 2.0. so they are implementing minor gameplay additions with rediculous time sink pre req's to keep you playing and busy on minimal content to give themselves time to develop 2.0

Team is not large enough or organized enough to develop on 2 fronts in my opinion. TIME SINKS until 2.0

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Errr all tanaka can ever create is mobs with overpowered AoE and crap drop rates. Let's leave him out of this game as much as possible.

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You sir have brought the borderline idiotic and moronic back to this conversation, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Tanaka still has a role in XIV's development. He is in the credits with a position in handling Business relations or something like that.

Producer's job is to handle budget and maintain schedule. Unless his position significantly differs from that of most people under the title of Producer in Japanese game development, he has had no part in the actual game design of neither XI or XIV.

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Producers actually decide what will be aloud to go into the game. Designers can pitch anything they want, but it is the producer who decides if it merits a place in the game and how much emphasis will be put on it. It is a very significant role that has a Huge impact on the development of a game.

People often make the mistake of believing the "Director" is like a movie director and calls all the shots, but in the Gaming Industry, the Producer calls the shots in the games direction and Directors do the paperwork and schmooze with the suits. Any given game will have Three or Four, sometimes more, Directors(Design, QA, Marketing, etc.).

Director is the higher Ranked Position, but they have less front line impact on the games development.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Producers actually decide what will be aloud to go into the game. Designers can pitch anything they want, but it is the producer who decides if it merits a place in the game and how much emphasis will be put on it. It is a very significant role that has a Huge impact on the development of a game.

Director is the higher Ranked Position, but they have less front line impact on the games development.

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Producers control the game, as in they are the ones who make sure that the upper management's demands are met. They aren't actively developing the game, but they do consult with the directors to ensure that the intended aspects are handled in a timely and accurate manner.

So while the producer is the boss of the game, the director(s) control the actual staff. That said it is unfortunate that the game's previous director openly admitted that he was not capable of performing as a director and preferred to solve game design problems rather than to lead the workforce. In XI the only issue is the lack of allocated money to the project. Either way- if the directors who consult the producer state that a Marketward system is a good thing and that the UI should be serverside and if the upper management's demands are met with those design decisions, the producer's job is done.

If the director is too busy playing with legos and the designers are incompetent enough to come up with design that they can't keep under control it is a much bigger problem. Tanaka got the boot, but so did the project management as a whole pretty much, with Tanaka singlehandedly taking the blame. XI has a much more balanced team, if not as competent as people would like, Tanaka is just a chest piece in the equation ensuring that Wada is happy and that the product is out on time. Whatever design the directors and designers come up with is their responsibility. Tanaka can't be everywhere. He doesn't decide what means the designers use to lengthen the content with the resources available. He simply gives them the resources to work with, and makes sure that something comes out of it.

When it comes to the long tedious stuff, I don't think they themselves sit down and play it for a week. If they did, then they would know how stupid it is to run and repeat the same thing over and over again just to re-enter a battle. Ifrit needs something done to it to, tired of porting back to Grid just to get another Lamp.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

:rolleyes:

you really want him back?

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Yeah, i would. And i agree with him...the google-translated info regarding surplus that said players would only be able to play 8hrs/week is actually what caused FFXIV all these problems, including the hatred and grudge regarding the former dev team. And we see it still happening here..."why was Yoshida afraid of the sister again?"

Yeah. Even Bay and Yoshida already asked to not google-translate their posts bevause it's translations suck. I would be pissed too and tell ppl to screw off if i had info regarding surplus translated like they did.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

What retail patch was that? When the game went live I never saw any official mention of a patch that was supposed to finish the game. All I was able to find were references to some game changes planned for winter right after the launch. I had heard a rumor that there were a lot of quests that were supposed to be released with the production launch, but the rumor didn't pan out. I have no idea if that rumor was based on statements from anyone at SE.

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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...bd4263ed466626

Check out what was planned for january.

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Originally Posted by Altanas

Perhaps if the moogle pre requisites were expressed in a more positive way they would be acceptable. Such as, defeating each NM adds a percentage increase to drop rate to weapons or guarantees for each player 1 nut per NM killed in the pre requisite.

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They did. Kill the 5 NMs and you have a chance at a drop. If you are just helping your ls you don't have to kill the NMs. I think you may be on the right track with the idea that 1 NM might give you a 1% chance, and all 5 might give you a 5% chance. It then makes sense for each subsequent fight to grow harder in order to get that next 1%.

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Originally Posted by Altanas

I am sure the dev's are stumped at the moment. The pre-requisites are no different than say Sky, Sea, ZNMs from 11 for example (farming something before an actual boss fight).

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In sky and Sea you usually could find places to fight where agro wasn't an issue, and if you did get agro the link was something that an outside party could kill for you while the alliance was focused on the NM. The problem here is you can be instantly wiped by an EP mob that walks up behind you when the NM is 10%. They could have done it better by moving the Morbol and the Spriggan to a place more like the tree, monkey, or pig. Those were manageable fights, and the walk really is no different than sky events where you sneak through the shrine, or run on the edge of the path and not near the blue platforms. Someone always forgot, but they could run though a nearby door and zone, or you just raise them and move on. If you had to fight Faust in the corridor surrounded by magic agro and got wiped every time the whm cast cure on the tank people would have raised hell about it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

By laying the blame on a replaceable part of the process (A single man) It's far easier to assure consumers and stockholders that you have everything under control.

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It's normal for a manager to take the blame for the rank and file employees mistakes. The rank and file can't make decisions on behalf of the company, and work under supervision that is supposed to prevent their mistakes from harming the company. When that fails the failure really does reflect a problem at a higher level, and that's what a board wants to see dealt with. Managers can be let go with a severance, and businesses will sometimes help the manager find a better job elsewhere which keeps it amicable and that benefits the business more than a messy breakup. This is just a talking point, and I'm in no way trying to say that's what SE did here.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...bd4263ed466626

Check out what was planned for january.

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Sorry double post, but I only saw this after I posted.

Thanks, that was really interesting to see, and it does make sense out of some of the things I was hearing in game. Aside from the Company stuff I don't see a lot on the future direction of the game that leads me to think Tanaka was taking it in a very different direction. It does show that were were going to have some of this a long time ago.

The concept of player companies and company ships was something I was really looking forward too, and its a shame we won't see free companies till 2.0. I can understand it make sense to rework the underlying structure of the game first, but it would be a type of content that the players could really sink their teeth into. It would give the players something to build for themselves outside of grinding a character while the devs work on the game itself.

Whatever else people may say the world design does include some areas that really speak for the possibility of epic FF content. A lot was done right in this game from the start, and it's a shame that what didn't work was so problematic for SE.

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Originally Posted by Mireille

Sorry double post, but I only saw this after I posted.

Thanks, that was really interesting to see, and it does make sense out of some of the things I was hearing in game. Aside from the Company stuff I don't see a lot on the future direction of the game that leads me to think Tanaka was taking it in a very different direction. It does show that were were going to have some of this a long time ago.

The concept of player companies and company ships was something I was really looking forward too, and its a shame we won't see free companies till 2.0. I can understand it make sense to rework the underlying structure of the game first, but it would be a type of content that the players could really sink their teeth into. It would give the players something to build for themselves outside of grinding a character while the devs work on the game itself.

Whatever else people may say the world design does include some areas that really speak for the possibility of epic FF content. A lot was done right in this game from the start, and it's a shame that what didn't work was so problematic for SE.

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Yup. Not only the current game is already very different, but the paths were also completely different. This is why i do think reviving Tanaka's FFXIV would be a great thing to do. It's just like comparing FFXII and FFTA...they share the very same lore (Ivalice Alliance) and still they both are great regardless of FFTA2 being spin-off or FFXII being in the main serie.

Hopefully more ppl will support this too so in march, when Tanaka is done with FFXI rework, we can have him back to his FFXIV as spin-off game ^^

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Check his/her history. His/her last history was in April. Why do you think he/she NEVER responds when I ask him why he/she judges people for disliking the game when he/she him/herself doesn't play. Move along whiteknight.

Ironic he/she can ask that one person if that adventurer thinks the fights are fun without even attempting the fights once, but someone else asking him the same question gets questioned.

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I suspect Jennestia's "alter ego" that she refers to on Mysidia is Zheru Estellia (Forum Name = Elexia), a Level 1 MRD with 1100 posts on the forum...

I suspect Jennestia's actual character is Elexia Higashikuni on Rabanastre (of course) who is played occasionally, looks like interest picked up after patch 1.19 and waned again, but these forums are ever interesting right.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

I suspect Jennestia's "alter ego" that she refers to on Mysidia is Zheru Estellia (Forum Name = Elexia), a Level 1 MRD with 1100 posts on the forum...

I suspect Jennestia's actual character is Elexia Higashikuni on Rabanastre (of course) who is played occasionally, looks like interest picked up after patch 1.19 and waned again, but these forums are ever interesting right.

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Scary thought:

You could be Jennestia and not know it!

"I want you to FOREVERALONEME as hard as you can!"

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Originally Posted by Mireille

It's normal for a manager to take the blame for the rank and file employees mistakes. The rank and file can't make decisions on behalf of the company, and work under supervision that is supposed to prevent their mistakes from harming the company. When that fails the failure really does reflect a problem at a higher level, and that's what a board wants to see dealt with. Managers can be let go with a severance, and businesses will sometimes help the manager find a better job elsewhere which keeps it amicable and that benefits the business more than a messy breakup. This is just a talking point, and I'm in no way trying to say that's what SE did here.

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That's assuming that it was the "Rank and file" who were to blame. I've worked managment in a large company and I know that the term "Sh*t rolls downhill" is true as ever. The higher ups will lay the blame on whoever they can find and chances are Tanaka fit the bill perfectly to take the blame for there moronic decisions (Like releasing the game long before it was ready)

I have little doubt that the lower level employees screwed up the game, hell they are doing a fine job as it stands and I doubt Yoshi is that much of a superstar to make the team work on a totally new level. They just needed the freedom they are now allowed now that the game is flailing to stay afloat from the higher ups.

"Director" is just laymans terms for "The guy you blame to save your ass"

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Originally Posted by Jynx

That's assuming that it was the "Rank and file" who were to blame. I've worked managment in a large company and I know that the term "Sh*t rolls downhill" is true as ever. The higher ups will lay the blame on whoever they can find and chances are Tanaka fit the bill perfectly to take the blame for there moronic decisions (Like releasing the game long before it was ready)

I have little doubt that the lower level employees screwed up the game, hell they are doing a fine job as it stands and I doubt Yoshi is that much of a superstar to make the team work on a totally new level. They just needed the freedom they are now allowed now that the game is flailing to stay afloat from the higher ups.

"Director" is just laymans terms for "The guy you blame to save your ass"

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We know SE sucks ass at PC development, they just do. But really the initial design of gameplay, the choice of piece of crap (FFXI HD) engine, etc. all points at the game being rotten from the very start.

If tanaka saw all this, if all these decisions were forced on him, he would have resigned.

So either it was was all his idea (except for release date?) or he was too blind to see the train wreck of game he was leading.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

So either it was was all his idea (except for release date?) or he was too blind to see the train wreck of game he was leading.

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Most 90% of the issues the game suffered from at launch were clearly due to a rushed launch. Wether it's Tanakas fault or not is unclear. I generally don't like to assume, I like to look at both sides of the coin.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

So either it was was all his idea (except for release date?) or he was too blind to see the train wreck of game he was leading.

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or he was forced to release it before things were completed and he had to do the half finished stuff we got on release and expected to have the time to finish them.

Yeah keep telling yourself that.

First of all he was (maybe) forced to release it "early" because the game was years late.

But seriously, it was going to be better once finished? Leve centered gameplay? BR system that was just like FFXI's, only worse?

Pretty much everything that was broken was broken by design, not at implementation level.

Jennestia alter ego....
http://fumaga.com/i/anna-is-actually...r-animated.gif

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Yeah keep telling yourself that.

First of all he was (maybe) forced to release it "early" because the game was years late.

But seriously, it was going to be better once finished? Leve centered gameplay? BR system that was just like FFXI's, only worse?

Pretty much everything that was broken was broken by design, not at implementation level.

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both you and me made statements. both of those statements are opinions. neither opinion is wrong.

my opinion is the game would have been perfectly fine if it was finished. we would not be a year later and still not even have a battle system completed.

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Originally Posted by AmbrosiaAmor

Captain Picard you almost had it. I think the correct thread title is Mark of Knee. I just received a package from Fedex (overnight mind you because of its great importance) and was finally able to decode the message. It has a grave post apocalyptic message.



"I used to be a Final Fantasy Game just like you, then I took a Knee to the Tanaka."



Tanaka never lost it.
Yioshi never lost it.
Wada never lost it.
Knee lost it.
I get lost sometimes looking for directions on Google Maps as well as which side of the coffee cup should I take a sip. I mean I know the top side is circular in nature, but which side should I sip?

As you can clearly tell, it is the fault of Knee. It is that single singularity as to why we have this mess. If the Universe didn't have a Knee this would of never happened.

So in the future when you are fighting the 5th dimensional one sided Bahamut Version 4.0, using Version 5.0 gear in FFXIV Version 3.0/0.0 remember this:



Knee™



Captain Picard thank you for your wonderful post. I watched every single episode of Star Trek The Next Generation and loved every single episode you were in. Please keep that shiny head shiny.

No you may not have what I am smoking.
No you may not have what I am drinking.
You may have Khan's Knee however.

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What.

http://d37nnnqwv9amwr.cloudfront.net...2/me-gusta.jpg

I object to the assumption in this op that quests and missions have somehow become more interesting after the producer changed.

Might as well call it "The mark of Sakaguchi's absence".

Sounds odd, considering Sakaguchi's absence finally made Square step up their game (too little too late though).

Meanwhile Sakaguchi still makes NES games for Xbox360.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Sounds odd, considering Sakaguchi's absence finally made Square step up their game (too little too late though).

Meanwhile Sakaguchi still makes NES games for Xbox360.

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The man had good games, and really? NES games for the 360?.... He has two, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, both really good RPGs

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

The man had good games, and really? NES games for the 360?.... He has two, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, both really good RPGs

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Don't forget his latest game The Last Story.

Seems like a ballsy attempt to recreate a bit of what he had with FF.

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Originally Posted by AmbrosiaAmor

Captain Picard you almost had it. I think the correct thread title is Mark of Knee. I just received a package from Fedex (overnight mind you because of its great importance) and was finally able to decode the message. It has a grave post apocalyptic message.



"I used to be a Final Fantasy Game just like you, then I took a Knee to the Tanaka."



Tanaka never lost it.
Yioshi never lost it.
Wada never lost it.
Knee lost it.
I get lost sometimes looking for directions on Google Maps as well as which side of the coffee cup should I take a sip. I mean I know the top side is circular in nature, but which side should I sip?

As you can clearly tell, it is the fault of Knee. It is that single singularity as to why we have this mess. If the Universe didn't have a Knee this would of never happened.

So in the future when you are fighting the 5th dimensional one sided Bahamut Version 4.0, using Version 5.0 gear in FFXIV Version 3.0/0.0 remember this:



Knee™



Captain Picard thank you for your wonderful post. I watched every single episode of Star Trek The Next Generation and loved every single episode you were in. Please keep that shiny head shiny.

No you may not have what I am smoking.
No you may not have what I am drinking.
You may have Khan's Knee however.

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Crack Kills.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Sounds odd, considering Sakaguchi's absence finally made Square step up their game (too little too late though).

Meanwhile Sakaguchi still makes NES games for Xbox360.

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See Above.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Might as well call it "The mark of Sakaguchi's absence".

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QFT ^

/moarchars