[Personal Opinion] FFXIV is too casual friendly

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Unfortunately, the devs have taken the route that expert roulette is the faceroll roulette, and ARF roueltte is the outdated content that no one plays roulette except to grind lore.

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Fixed. Have yet to see anything other than ARF in level 60 roulette (why I stopped doing it).

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The issue is that the levelling process conditions us to expect more. Levelling is exciting and getting through these dungeons takes actual thought and on the first time through it feels like endgame.

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... Are we playing the same game?

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Originally Posted by Naunet

... Are we playing the same game?

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Dzameal and Aurum are probably the 2 where you need to actually be competent pre-50. 51-59 probably Sohm Al up to Gubal requires some competence. He's not exactly wrong, but these dungeons (bar Vault) also don't ask a whole lot of you. Vault is the obvious odd-ball as I'll have people amazed a healer can keep everyone from dying at all... Low expectations.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

... Are we playing the same game?

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Yes? Did you not find Darkhold, Aurum Vale, Sohm Al, and the Vault a reasonable challenge (not hard, but requires a pulse in order to complete) when you went through them the first time? (not talking about farm, I'm talking about first time, todays dungeons feel like farm even on the first run through)

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Originally Posted by Naunet

... Are we playing the same game?

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I agree with Lambdafish. The dungeons in leveling demanded more than current dungeons. I'd place the difficulty of current ones slightly below that of Haukke Manor.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

... Are we playing the same game?

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yeah, levelling roulette dungeons are harder than many extreme primals now.

Sometimes I wonder if threads like these are started because the FF franchise is still fairly new to the MMO community. Not so much in years, but by number of games released and their expansions. The reason I say this is because FF games in general have always been easy-moderate in challenge when progressing the story, and they release things like mega-bosses to challenge those with greater skill levels. OR... and this is key... improve the skill level of the player that attempts them.

If you run raids and EX content on the regular, exactly how is the casual content, especially if ran with the same group of buds going to provide anything similar? It's not, and it never will, and players with lower skill levels should not have to suffer as a result of that. Instances like Copperbell Mines HM or Titan HM might be easy for some of us to clear, but they are still much harder than their NM counterparts. More often than not, running these instances and getting good at them will improve your skill level, and when you get comfortable and ready, you move on to harder content.

The difficulty progression in FFXIV is just fine and does not need to be changed in any way. The game doesn't allow crappy players to be in the most difficult content; players do. And if you want a challenge, there is always DF.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Yes? Did you not find Darkhold, Aurum Vale, Sohm Al, and the Vault a reasonable challenge (not hard, but requires a pulse in order to complete) when you went through them the first time? (not talking about farm, I'm talking about first time, todays dungeons feel like farm even on the first run through)

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Not sure what the Vault is, so I probably haven't done it yet. But no, I didn't particularly find any of the others challenging, even my first time through. The mechanics are all very self-explanatory.

I'm not sure I'd use "requires a pulse" as a standard of any difficulty. I do not consider content challenging unless I actually feel challenged.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Not sure what the Vault is

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I understand now, you have only seen XIV up to level 55, so in a way, yeah we are playing a different game. Without spoiling too much, Heavensward dungeons ramp up in difficulty (the Vault is a level 57 dungeon, and a very popular dungeon amoungst players) from where you are now, but at level 60 suddenly become painfully easy (a SCH pet could comfortably solo heal some of them)

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

yeah, levelling roulette dungeons are harder than many extreme primals now.

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I had to edit my last post after reading yours because it brings up a great point. I've always had more anxiety from running through leveling roulette than any primal. Especially four-man where your role is more focused, and there is no backup tank or healer. If either drop, it typically leads to a wipe. For primals, even though a lot of people fail the mechanics and there are dead bodies everywhere, they still typically get cleared the first-go.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Part of the problem, I'd argue, is the difference between a 60 dungeon and EX/Savage. 60 dungeons are so face roll easy while Savage/EX will kick your teeth in; there's not much in the middle. WC illustrates this VERY well and to a degree still does: difficultly increases kind of while leveling, then drops like a rock. So we have 2 extremes and when something comes along in the middle, all hell breaks loose.

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Originally Posted by Frowny

Part of the problem, I'd argue, is the difference between a 60 dungeon and EX/Savage. 60 dungeons are so face roll easy while Savage/EX will kick your teeth in; there's not much in the middle. WC illustrates this VERY well and to a degree still does: difficultly increases kind of while leveling, then drops like a rock. So we have 2 extremes and when something comes along in the middle, all hell breaks loose.

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I can kind of see an issue there. I mean you can only level a job once, right? Which is why I am perfectly ok with releasing more difficult content. But I am absolutely not ok with making current content more difficult with some exceptions.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I can kind of see an issue there. I mean you can only level a job once, right? Which is why I am perfectly ok with releasing more difficult content. But I am absolutely not ok with making current content more difficult with some exceptions.

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Do you think it was a bad thing increasing the difficulty between void ark and weeping city? Curious question

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I understand now, you have only seen XIV up to level 55, so in a way, yeah we are playing a different game. Without spoiling too much, Heavensward dungeons ramp up in difficulty (the Vault is a level 57 dungeon, and a very popular dungeon amoungst players) from where you are now, but at level 60 suddenly become painfully easy (a SCH pet could comfortably solo heal some of them)

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That doesn't negate the fact that NONE of the dungeons so far have been challenging at all and certainly don't equate to the claim made by the post I quoted regarding leveling being "exciting" and building up an expectation for very challenging content.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

What's great is that in the 1-49 dungeons they slowly ramp the difficulty up an add more mechanics for you to learn but then they throw that all away for max level content. Compare any "expert" dungeon released nowadays to Aurum Vale or Dzemael Darkhold or the (pre-nerf) Vault.

This is a game and the goal is to win, but winning only feels good if it's actually possible to fail. No one likes it when your opponent lets you win at chess or whatever, so why is it different when it's a computer taking it super easy on you?

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I'd say two things to this.

Firstly Max lvl dungeons are things people will grind daily at end game and most people will find the thrill of challenged replaced with annoyance at obstacles the 20th time they run a dungeon. Making things too easy runs the risk of making the place boring. Making it too challenging will just cause people not to bother (original Steps of Faith).

Secondly, the primary reason dungeons tend to be easy is gear rather than mechanics. A bunch of the EX dungeon bosses have plenty of mechanics but their mechanics are forgiving because people can survive through them because generally most people are running the place in gear anywhere from 20 to 40 ilvls above the dungeons balanced difficulty. Rerun those dungeons with ilvl sync and you will find mechanics you barely payed attention to become much more dangerous.

The issue with ilvl is that its naturally going to happen. Bumping up the minimum Ilvl isn't likely to happen as that would make it harder to access for newer players. They could just apply an ilvl sync but then people would likely become annoyed that they don't feel they are going any stronger when they get new gear and people would complain that higher level gear is devalued. On solution would be, as I said earlier, create a system where doing a dungeon with ilvl synced (which is already in the game) would give some kind of additional reward. This would encourage people who wanted to do it the hard way to do it that way without inconveniencing people who just want to breeze through.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

So why should casual players roll over for what you want again? To help us improve? Because I'd rather not pay for a game forcing me to be super srs when I just want to run around like a spaz and have fun.

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It would be interesting to read what you think about dungeons like aurum vale and the vault. They are way harder than the actual "casual" endcontent dungeons aka. expert dungeons and they are just level dungeons. ;)

See,

I recently returned to FFXIV, and I've decided to level a new character from scratch.
Due burnout from other games, I've also made up my mind that I want to play casually.
I have no idle hope that I will clear AS12 on this character before the next expansion hits.
So I'm one of these "casuals that demands easy stuff"

Do I want to see this raid content eventually? Hell yes
Do I want it to be dumbed down? No, pretty sure the Echo is going to carry me through it already.
Do I want to see optional challenging content in the next expansion? Absolutely! As long as it does not block me from progressing the game , then by all means make it as hard as you want. I can live with the fact I might not get a certain mount/title/minion/gear because I cannot clear said content.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The issue with ilvl is that its naturally going to happen. Bumping up the minimum Ilvl isn't likely to happen as that would make it harder to access for newer players. They could just apply an ilvl sync but then people would likely become annoyed that they don't feel they are going any stronger when they get new gear and people would complain that higher level gear is devalued. On solution would be, as I said earlier, create a system where doing a dungeon with ilvl synced (which is already in the game) would give some kind of additional reward. This would encourage people who wanted to do it the hard way to do it that way without inconveniencing people who just want to breeze through.

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Accessibility is perfectly easy. Let's say Xelphatol and GGH were set to ilvl 240. Brand new players only have to acquire lore gear to access them. They'll also cap Scriptures along the way, thus bumping their ilvl up even further. Frankly, ilvl 230 would be better than what we have now. There will come a point where content made this easy will drive people away. I can, once again, only speak for myself, but prior to the 260 Anima step, I had 10-15 minute queues on Expert. That's never happened before, especially on Aether. I suspect it's because people are fed up and bored of dungeons nowadays. They're so bloody easy, you barely have to push more than two buttons.

As it stands it's a real shame that something like Sophia EX - which requires players to be attentive - rewards less tomes than the Expert roulette that can usually be done in 10-20 minutes by most groups and is incredibly forgiving.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Accessibility is perfectly easy. Let's say Xelphatol and GGH were set to ilvl 240. Brand new players only have to acquire lore gear to access them. They'll also cap Scriptures along the way, thus bumping their ilvl up even further. Frankly, ilvl 230 would be better than what we have now. There will come a point where content made this easy will drive people away. I can, once again, only speak for myself, but prior to the 260 Anima step, I had 10-15 minute queues on Expert. That's never happened before, especially on Aether. I suspect it's because people are fed up and bored of dungeons nowadays. They're so bloody easy, you barely have to push more than two buttons.

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No actually if the ilvl was 240 they would have to get every piece of lore gear which is several thousand lore as well as a weapon of around the same level as well as run Void Ark and Weeping City 12 times each. Even then it would help for maybe a patch before it became trivial again. This would make catching up both extremely grindy as well as time consuming and linear as the options for gearing up would be limited.

It would also rend the gear from their useless unless it was substantially higher than 240 which would either mean pushing up ilvl on gear across the board, leading back to the original problem, or devaluing the gear rewards from other content sources. The only logical solution I can see is ilvl syncing, which again is likely to lead people to complaining that their better gear seems pointless as there is little they can do that actually makes them feel more powerful for having better gear.

I've never had a EX queue longer than 10 mins with any role at any time of the day and most times its under 5 minutes even as dps.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As it stands it's a real shame that something like Sophia EX - which requires players to be attentive - rewards less tomes than the Expert roulette that can usually be done in 10-20 minutes by most groups and is incredibly forgiving.

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While true, a roulette can only be done once a day and Sophia EX offers better gear. Plus once your farming it Sophia EX doesn't take long at all to complete.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

As it stands it's a real shame that something like Sophia EX - which requires players to be attentive - rewards less tomes than the Expert roulette that can usually be done in 10-20 minutes by most groups and is incredibly forgiving.

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It's already a shame that a EX primal is so easy in general.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Do you think it was a bad thing increasing the difficulty between void ark and weeping city? Curious question

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I remember my second run of it, someone went "holy hell this is HARD!" Most of us responded "if you're not braindead and expecting to be carried, it isn't too bad. Pull your weight, don't be stupid and we're set". I firmly believe SE helped.... foster the sense of easiness in the game and its lead to where we are now. We have content where many can idle during it and people are uncomfortable with maybe having to put some effort into a multiplayer team game.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I can kind of see an issue there. I mean you can only level a job once, right? Which is why I am perfectly ok with releasing more difficult content. But I am absolutely not ok with making current content more difficult with some exceptions.

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Current content no, but I'd like SE to raise the difficultly they use as their bare minimum in the future. Nothing extreme, but more than "slam your face in your keyboard/controller and you'll be fine". The easy stuff should end at level 59 because... the only hard part of this game is learning your class. And I'm sorry, but this is a team game so if you can't learn your class...

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Originally Posted by Frowny

I remember my second run of it, someone went "holy hell .

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So I guess Im from the outside lookin in , and what everyone is saying is all the hw content is easy, I havent played these dungeons yet but I was told it was more difficult than any other content before it, and I hear things are so easy yet Ive seen people die In literally every dungeon Ive been in seen people die in the first ten floors of potd. Not sayin thats common at all , but I think some people have a bias opinion about whats difficult to them and whats difficult to others. Some people say titan extreme is easy , but to me its pretty difficult simply because you have to dodge all the mechanics and I have been in a party that abandoned the trail. So the only thing we dont know is the percentage of people who think stuff is just so easy and the percentage of who think diffrently nearly ever time I go into aurum vale people say how much they hate it.

My real beef with the game is the complete trivialization of older content.
They have lvl sync, ilvl sync in place. Perfect way to keep older content like the coiltowers challenging, but instead they chose to first give echo boosts and by the time HW came out, you could cheese the whole thing by having one less party member and clear them as lvl60.
I felt bad for those who worked hard on those final witness titles. I never made it past Turn 9 legit and that was fine. It was fun trying to work hard, get better. Practice and some more practice on top of that. Then it all got ruined by HW and I lost interest in any "endgame" content. Subsequently had my 6-8month break around that time.

It's okay for the main content to be easy, but I hate it how they pander to the bad players by making everything easy so they can clear everything with no effort. The "everyone wins!" mentality only punishes players who are willing to put the time and effort into it and rewards players who are lazy.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So I guess Im from the outside lookin in , and what everyone is saying is all the hw content is easy, I havent played these dungeons yet but I was told it was more difficult than any other content before it

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You heard wrong. The expert dungeons in Heavensward have all been brutally easy. The majority of them can be solo healed with a SCH Faerie (not exaggerating, I literally went in on day 1 with a SCH into all of them and did not heal at all).

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and I hear things are so easy yet Ive seen people die In literally every dungeon Ive been in seen people die in the first ten floors of potd. Not sayin thats common at all , but I think some people have a bias opinion about whats difficult to them and whats difficult to others. Some people say titan extreme is easy , but to me its pretty difficult simply because you have to dodge all the mechanics and I have been in a party that abandoned the trail. So the only thing we dont know is the percentage of people who think stuff is just so easy and the percentage of who think diffrently nearly ever time I go into aurum vale people say how much they hate it.

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Yeah, unfortunately, no matter how easy you make content, people will still fail and die. I think the issue is as they keep catering content this way, people become less inclined to try, and that means they will play worse and worse and die in the most mundane of content. If the content forced them to play well, they'd play better (still likely die, but they'd be better).

As for the extreme primals, all of them seem easy once you get the mechanics down and seem hard before you do. Titan EX is a great example of this, it's quite difficult, especially in the gear present on its launch. However, it's such old content that most people know it and it's pretty easy to clear. The people who are saying Titan is easy are likely misremembering, trolling, or trying to prop themselves up to brag about being so great. Titan is consistently rated as one of the harder extreme primals. For example, here is a strawpoll from a few months ago:http://www.strawpoll.me/10773567/r Titan is rated as the 2nd hardest of all the primals (Thordan first).

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Originally Posted by iluvOP

My real beef with the game is the complete trivialization of older content.
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It's okay for the main content to be easy, but I hate it how they pander to the bad players by making everything easy so they can clear everything with no effort. The "everyone wins!" mentality only punishes players who are willing to put the time and effort into it and rewards players who are lazy.

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Waaaiiit.. You're ok with main content being easy, but it bothers you that outdated content is easy? Am I misunderstanding what you mean by main, or..?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

You heard wrong. ?

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I say its more of a problem with the reward system in this game , the game doesnt treat its content like a whole game doing binding coil for the first time sync , and I was just a level 53 bard and I didnt even need the rewards that where given cause I had out leveled it. So if they gave better rewards for the older primals, or the older raids, and made gave an incentive to level sync them instead of running them unsync even tho its older content. Its still not as face roll as some the stuff ur mentioning. Wt in my opinion is just incentive to run content unsync , and get it over with , I also did thornmarch and party abandoned, so its not like this content is just a peice of cake like is being mention , its just easier to do it unsync and get it over with , if you gave out better rewards this could solve the problem possibly at least a little bit.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

It's already a shame that a EX primal is so easy in general.

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It's a shame a lot of things are as easy as it is because people scream "NERF THIS!" [OW ref but it fits right? lol.]
It's just tiring how the game pretty much coddles you all day long but if 1 person asks for a tune up
SOMEWHERE it's "I don't wanna! People are bad at this game! I like my faceroll easy tier."
And here we are. Like I said as my first post in page 1, I understand that this game is really "Your first step"
but it's awfully sad when things that are meant to be even a sort of a challenge gets nerfed bat because
people are too comfortable with the same pattern/difficulty after these many years.
I can't be asked to play this game more than I should because it's just boring and gg2ez all the time.
I mean people act like "Anything that's not me watching Netflix while I kill this bird with my toes smashing the board/buttons...."
Is too much brain work.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Not sayin thats common at all , but I think some people have a bias opinion about whats difficult to them and whats difficult to others.

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"Some"...?

When I stopped playing League of Legends, you weren't considered "decent" at the game if you weren't at least diamond - silver and below were considered "trash" (On the forums anyway). Turns out diamond is the top 2% of the playerbase and silver and below (the so called trash) makes up over 60% of the playerbase. And those are just the ~10% that felt competitive enough to get ranked, most players didn't even bother and were content just playing normals, ARAM and bots.

It's a nice reality check on how the skill is actually distributed and what to expect of a playerbase based on your own standing in the distribution. It's why I am very sceptical when people want to make things harder and don't think it's really in the interest of the playerbase and more in their own personal interest.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

"Some"...?

When I stopped playing League of Legends, you weren't considered "decent" at the .

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Well even here Ive heard and I wish there where actually numbers on the people who do savage raids and its a very small percentage, I come from swtor and you want to talk about easy content thats it right there like boss fights in the story literally where two hits and you have killed them. Sometimes challenge isnt always the reason people play I like challenge and I plan to try everything and Im sure I will fail sometimes, but Im one person , alot of my friends in game cant even be bothered with raids. And thats fine with me challenge isnt the only reason I even play myself, so there are lots of games that are successful for havin easy content swtor being one of them and finically its actually doing better than this game so to think that a large amount of people will leave game because its easy I just dont buy that at all.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Do you think it was a bad thing increasing the difficulty between void ark and weeping city? Curious question

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I don't have any level 60's so I cannot speak about the difficulty of those two raids. However, when I mentioned that there can be exceptions to increasing the difficulty on existing content, I had certain iconic primals in mind that I wish would increase in difficulty along with increased item levels, since not a lot of players want to run these guys at the minimum iLv.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

No actually if the ilvl was 240 they would have to get every piece of lore gear which is several thousand lore as well as a weapon of around the same level as well as run Void Ark and Weeping City 12 times each. Even then it would help for maybe a patch before it became trivial again. This would make catching up both extremely grindy as well as time consuming and linear as the options for gearing up would be limited.

It would also rend the gear from their useless unless it was substantially higher than 240 which would either mean pushing up ilvl on gear across the board, leading back to the original problem, or devaluing the gear rewards from other content sources. The only logical solution I can see is ilvl syncing, which again is likely to lead people to complaining that their better gear seems pointless as there is little they can do that actually makes them feel more powerful for having better gear.

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Scripture and Alexander gear would also factor in. Granted, you could just make the ilvl 230 or 235 instead. Admittedly, I forgot the Weeping City/Void Ark requirement there. Frankly, I think you could do syncing since our overleveled gear doesn't properly scale down anyway. That being said, I don't necessarily Expert dungeons should be immediately accessible if you're brand new. Requiring people to actually upgrade their gear is a good thing. That way we don't see people in woefully underleveled equipment basically getting carried. Once again, we're at the point people don't upgrade because there is no incentive to. Why upgrade from Augmented Esoteric gear when you'll still meet the requirements for Xelphatol?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

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On the same token, the current Expert dungeons cater to far below the 60%. Expert dungeons where you can do huge pulls and barely need to heal show this very well.

Nudge a player a little bit and they can rise to the occasion without going overboard. Once in a blue, we get something like WC where this happens (though it can be painful).

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Yeah, unfortunately, no matter how easy you make content, people will still fail and die. I think the issue is as they keep catering content this way, people become less inclined to try, and that means they will play worse and worse and die in the most mundane of content. If the content forced them to play well, they'd play better (still likely die, but they'd be better).

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That really nails it. You can increase the current braindead difficultly without going way too far. The new expert dungeons are decent examples of this as the mechanics actually require SOME thinking and push you a tiny bit. We're not talking about creating the next Savage statics, we're talking about making end game dungeons require more from a player as they have every resource to succeed and a huge tool kit to draw from.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't have any level 60's so I cannot speak about the difficulty of those two raids.

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Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you have enough information to speak about any of this topic. You aren't the first person who hasn't seen endgame to comment on the difficulty curve between levelling and endgame, and how can you expect to make a formal opinion when you haven't experienced any of the current content (let alone the latter half of the levelling process)?

I understand that you are taking the majority of your info from ARR endgame, but that's not really enough to make an educated opinion.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you have enough information to speak about any of this topic. You aren't the first person who hasn't seen endgame to comment on the difficulty curve between levelling and endgame, and how can you expect to make a formal opinion when you haven't experienced any of the current content (let alone the latter half of the levelling process)?

I understand that you are taking the majority of your info from ARR endgame, but that's not really enough to make an educated opinion.

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The post didnt say endgame it said casual friendly , so I dont really see the issue with anyone commenting on this thread, everyone is entitled to have an opinion because if your sayin the new content is easy then , your more than likely say the same thing about the old content. Which is still relevant even tho most people dont think so but lets see what happens if only vet players supported this game js.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

as is.

EDIT: I actually wanna go over Steps of Faith. You have to actually TALK TO YOUR TEAM and READ NPC TEXT
to beat Vishap. They had to nerf it because randoms couldn't do it. It's sad honestly...Yes it gated the expansion
but people seriously couldn't be bothered to talk or read during? It feels good to actually communicate and work together.
You have enough time to talk with people to go A B and C. :/ I dunno, I want more middle ground / mid-core? stuff tbh.
The baby's first MMO thing was cool when it released 3 years ago. Gotta pick up the ball now.

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To be fair 99.99999% of all NPC text in fights doesn't contribute anything and clutters your screen, so people are used to ignoring it to focus on the fight.

Not a good way to introduce mechanics imo.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

I play because of the lack of challenge. It's why I play Easy Mode for everything.

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http://moarpowah.com/wp-content/uplo...-Easy-Mode.png

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Originally Posted by MaikoRaines

https://i.imgur.com/XiQheRj.jpg

This debate in a nutshell.

By the way, sprinkles are the bomb.

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What Sprinkles???? GET OUT! We don't serve your kind here!
http://s.quickmeme.com/img/ba/bae8cb...0732b943cd.jpg

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The post didnt say endgame it said casual friendly , so I dont really see the issue with anyone commenting on this thread, everyone is entitled to have an opinion because if your sayin the new content is easy then , your more than likely say the same thing about the old content. Which is still relevant even tho most people dont think so but lets see what happens if only vet players supported this game js.

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This is the "taking it the wrong way" post that I wanted to avoid :p I wasn't trying to censor or shut anyone down, just pointing out that the argument does require a more worldly view than that particular person has, and more research is required. That doesn't make their points right or wrong, but what I was arguing against (the part where you say "The post didnt say endgame it said casual friendly") is that endgame needs to be factored in to the equation when analysing difficulty (see my posts where I mention the weird difficulty curve between levelling and lvl 60 content).

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

This is the "taking it the wrong way" post that I wanted to avoid :p I wasn't trying to censor or shut anyone down, just pointing out that the argument does require a more worldly view than that particular person has, and more research is required. That doesn't make their points right or wrong, but what I was arguing against (the part where you say "The post didnt say endgame it said casual friendly") is that endgame needs to be factored in to the equation when analysing difficulty (see my posts where I mention the weird difficulty curve between levelling and lvl 60 content).

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The "endgame" is a quite small part of the game, and should not really be used for judging or analyzing the game in general - not without very clearly specifying that you are talking only about the endgame anyway.

I wouldn't mind if Main Story Quests and job quests had harder solo instance challenges that required the average person to fail a bit and get Echo buff, but dungeons should remain as easy as they are I think.

The best "Normal" difficulty content I can think of is A11N. Even nowdays I still have multiple wipes to it and have to vote abandon every now and then. I can't imagine people would be happy having their easy dungeon run lead to 30+ minutes wasted of their time because their party wasn't that good.