Women and Armor!

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

What

Titan only wears a loincloth, bro

Are you serious? Are we discussing sexism with Primals, now? Awesome.

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http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...rit_Battle.jpg

I'm pretty sure Ifrit is naked. Get that guy some clothes stat!

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Titan only wears a loincloth, bro

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OK, you have a point here since the guy looks like a bodybuilder, but admit it you love it :-D

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Are you serious? Are we discussing sexism with Primals, now? Awesome.

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yes i am serious

well there's Minfilia, not to mention the NPC's in Ul'dah during the dragon quest event and the Halloween event

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

OK, you have a point here since the guy looks like a bodybuilder, but admit it you love it :-D

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Oooh yeah! How you doin?!

http://www.keenandgraev.com/wp-conte...fxiv-titan.jpg

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yes i am serious

well there's Minfilia, not to mention the NPC's in Ul'dah during the dragon quest event and the Halloween event

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So, you're cherry picking a couple of NPCs out of an enormous number of female NPCs, most of who don't help your argument, and then you're saying that how the developers made them look is some kind of institutionalized objectification of women? There are a goodly number of barely clothed males in the game as well.

http://nonstopkarate.files.wordpress...slave-leia.jpg

You know that scene in Star Wars, when Leia gets captured by Jabba the Hutt, and is forced to wear that slave bikini outfit? But then she gets rescued, and for some reason she opts to not wear that bikini for the rest of the movie. And then Han Solo gets all mad, and says stuff like "Why did you change out of that bikini outfit? What is your problem, do you not feel sexy and empowered as a woman, wearing it? Do you think women have to be covered up all the time? Because that's true objectification and sexism, right there, missy. What about all the women who enjoy dressing like that, huh? Are you trying to shame them, and tell them what to wear? Quit stomping all over their freedom, jeez! You know, there are skimpy clothes for men, too! When I choose not to wear something like that, it's my personal preference, because that would be weird and gross. But for a woman to not want to wear it all the time, that's just snotty, hard-core, man-hating feminist extremism! Who do you think you are, Anita Sarkeesian!? Women are just naturally sexual, and men like to look at them. It's just nature, so quit rocking the boat and trying to bring your female supremacy politics here!!"

I think that's how the scene went, right? Yeah, that was a good movie.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

at this point I'm starting to think Remilia is related to the other person on the forums that looks quite similar; both ignore and deliberately mis-understand most evidence presented to them and keep bringing up the same arguments.

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OMG, I wish I did not understand exactly who you are talking about. Makes me want to stick coat hangers in my ears, just to scratch the memory out of my brain.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

I think that's how the scene went, right? Yeah, that was a good movie.

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I'm trying to figure out who's point you're answering with this.

One piece > bikinis

oh wait

nah, no regrets. :D

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

So, you're cherry picking a couple of NPCs out of an enormous number of female NPCs, most of who don't help your argument, and then you're saying that how the developers made them look is some kind of institutionalized objectification of women?

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you might have a point here and like i said "for the male player base"

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

There are a goodly number of barely clothed males in the game as well.

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Hmmm Really!!!! I guess i was distracted at the time (damn slutty female Miqo'te)

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Originally Posted by Aegis

It's not wearing the armour that is objectification. It's designing and implementing it: the designer has made a nice piece of gear and then, when adapting it for females has thought "This gear needs to show some ass/boob/panties".

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You just don't get it, do you? If you consider it objectifying as an outfit, then it shouldn't matter who designed it, the outfit is still "objectifying" according to your standards. To insist that it's only objectifying if it's made by a male IS SEXISM.

You keep saying they have no option to wear "that nice piece of gear" because it's objectifying. If they dislike the gear for the way it is, then they really don't consider it a "nice piece of gear" but rather are trying to push their own agenda instead of appreciating the art for what it is, and what it was intended to be.

You are never at ANY point in this game EVER forced to wear revealing armor.

There is no such thing as a "preferred" dress code. If there is a dress code, you abide by it or you face consequences, otherwise there is absolutely no point to having a dress code in the first place if you're just going to let people wear whatever they want. Please show me an example of a business that has a "preferred" dress code. I would love to be proven wrong.

Also, no, quitting is not equivalent to having the option to wear other attire. In the situation that you described, they would be quitting simply because the revealing armor exists and that they refuse to wear anything else because of their masochistic tendencies or whatever is compelling them to not glamour over this item they seem to hate so much.

I still don't get why you're so obsessed with the midriff on the female version of the Dragoon armor too, while completely neglecting that the entire freaking armor set, regardless of gender, is incredibly impractical. It's also pretty damn tame too. Lets get real here, it's literally just a belly. Both men and women have them. What is the problem?

The worst part is that you completely ignore that there are revealing sets in the game for men too. Your argument holds no ground, especially here (this game), and you are absolutely 100% wrong in your stance on this.

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Originally Posted by Amused

If they dislike the gear for the way it is, then they really don't consider it a "nice piece of gear" but rather are trying to push their own agenda instead of appreciating the art for what it is, and what it was intended to be.

You are never at ANY point in this game EVER forced to wear revealing armor.

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That's not true. If you want the best stats available for the current level, you're gonna be forced into wearing certain pieces. In my earlier post, it's the coliseum shawl... People posted alternatives but that didn't actually make them better. The coliseum shawl is always gonna be better than the Harlequin acton. If I want the best stats, I'm forced into the shawl or I'm gimp.

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Originally Posted by Amused

I still don't get why you're so obsessed with the midriff on the female version of the Dragoon armor too, while completely neglecting that the entire freaking armor set, regardless of gender, is incredibly impractical. It's also pretty damn tame too. Lets get real here, it's literally just a belly. Both men and women have them. What is the problem?

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They are obsessed with it because it's the poster child of the man/female armor debate. The debate isn't about the practicality of the armor (which is something way different) but of the whim of the developers to give the males a fully covered stomach and for some reason a belly window for the females.

At the heart of the debate isn't about whether anything is tame or not...it's the choice that (for example) a female DRG should be able to play in the DRG AF without the belly window. It's the choice that the coatee on girls doesn't have to be super revealing.

It's literally about the choice.

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Originally Posted by Amused

The worst part is that you completely ignore that there are revealing sets in the game for men too.

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Yeah, and they aren't complaining about it so why bring it up? If they decided that they hated the necklaces and stuff and started to complain about it, then bring up this point.

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Originally Posted by Hito-Shura

I don't see where the issue is...

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a2...psa9103106.png

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Hot Damn! I want to see that on a midlander guy.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

snip

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Who's forcing you (Han/Jabba in your strange analogy) to wear certain armour in the game? If you don't like how something looks, you can glamour it, that's why it exists. I'd agree with you if the game had no option outside those clothes and you didn't like it, but the game literally allows you to replace your armour with anything else and keep the stats. Leila in your example didn't want to wear that uniform but didn't have a choice, however you do. At the same time you want to remove the ability for other women and men to dress up their characters how they see fit cause reasons?

Also dat raging. I think you setup some strange strawman to burn down right there.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

That's not true. If you want the best stats available for the current level, you're gonna be forced into wearing certain pieces. In my earlier post, it's the coliseum shawl... People posted alternatives but that didn't actually make them better. The coliseum shawl is always gonna be better than the Harlequin acton. If I want the best stats, I'm forced into the shawl or I'm gimp.

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That argument would work better if you truly needed BIS gear for a particular level to be able to level to 50 or run level appropriate dungeons. You don't.

Also, for a healer, the Coliseum Shawl (Int 10/Vit 9/Mind 10/Crit 15/SS 15) vs the Harlequin's Acton (Mind 10/Vit 9/Piety 8) should be fine. For a caster, the Felt robe offers comparable stats (Int 10/vit 9/Mind 10/crit 15). Heck, for a healer it does. The loss of 15 spell speed doesn't leave you "gimp".

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Yeah, and they aren't complaining about it so why bring it up? If they decided that they hated the necklaces and stuff and started to complain about it, then bring up this point.

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We are not complaining about it because we believe it's an unreasonable complaint, for BOTH sexes. We don't feel insulted or "reduced" or threatened or whatever, and we don't insult, "reduce" or threaten female chars by stating we like their skimpy outfits.
If you do, it's your problem and you should deal with it.

TL,DR: We like underboobs and we are going to give our life to defend them.

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Originally Posted by Ageofwar

Hmmm Really!!!! I guess i was distracted at the time (damn slutty female Miqo'te)

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http://i.imgur.com/D5UEak2.gif

I think a "The Emperor's new Shirt" for male would be actually a good idea for glamour ^^

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

That's not true. If you want the best stats available for the current level, you're gonna be forced into wearing certain pieces. In my earlier post, it's the coliseum shawl... People posted alternatives but that didn't actually make them better. The coliseum shawl is always gonna be better than the Harlequin acton. If I want the best stats, I'm forced into the shawl or I'm gimp.

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Not even a remotely valid point. You never need "the best stats" and you most certainly never need the best stats for leveling content, at least in this game. You are not "forced" to wear it, you can in fact create a melded high quality item that is comparable to it if you really did care that much about stats. Not to mention you replace the bottom coliseum part literally the very next level when you get your AF at 45. So you're down to one single piece now, and even then it is not necessary, and if you are leveling your second (or more) 50, you can glamour over it.

>I'm forced into the shawl or I'm gimp.
>or I'm gimp.

One piece of gear is the difference between being the best and being gimp? Wow!

I really can't believe that you guys consider the belly window to be such a serious thing. There is barely anything even remotely sexual about it, which leaves the impracticality of it as the only valid argument against it. Since you said that it's not a matter of the practicality, or that it's still tame, how is it objectifying?

I don't disagree with having options, I just disagree with the mentality that this is sexist, objectifying, or wrong in any manner. The design is their artistic vision. Do you also (not just you, everyone on that side of the fence) consider nude classical art to be tasteless, sexist, or objectifying?

>Yeah, and they aren't complaining about it so why bring it up?

Because then it's a double standard.

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Originally Posted by Amused

I don't disagree with having options, I just disagree with the mentality that this is sexist, objectifying, or wrong in any manner. The design is their artistic vision. Do you also (not just you, everyone on that side of the fence) consider nude classical art to be tasteless, sexist, or objectifying?

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"Artistic vision"

>comparing ffxiv armor designs to classical art.

...think you give the designers desire to show some female skin too much credit.

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Originally Posted by seida

"Artistic vision"

>comparing ffxiv armor designs to classical art.

...think you give the designers desire to show some female skin too much credit.

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Way to ignore every other point :P

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Originally Posted by Felis

http://i.imgur.com/D5UEak2.gif
I think a "The Emperor's new Shirt" for male would be actually a good idea for glamour ^^

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like i said I got distracted god damn you Nashu Mhakaracca

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Way to ignore everything else :P

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Because at this point, why bother. Amused refuses to acknowledge obvious sexism (if it doesn't bother you, if you don't care, that's one thing, but sticking your head in the sand and saying "lalala, nothing sexist about gear covering skin on guys and exposing skin on girls" is, frankly, ridiculous)

Yes, it's their "artistic vision". That doesn't mean it's immune to criticism or automatically makes it non-sexist.

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Originally Posted by seida

Because at this point, why bother. Amused refuses to acknowledge obvious sexism (if it doesn't bother you, if you don't care, that's one thing, but sticking your head in the sand and saying "lalala, nothing sexist about gear covering skin on guys and exposing skin on girls" is, frankly, ridiculous)

Yes, it's their "artistic vision". That doesn't mean it's immune to criticism or automatically makes it non-sexist.

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Ah I see, no more arrows in your quiver.
It's fine, don't worry. I salute your efforts!

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Originally Posted by seida

Because at this point, why bother. Amused refuses to acknowledge obvious sexism (if it doesn't bother you, if you don't care, that's one thing, but sticking your head in the sand and saying "lalala, nothing sexist about gear covering skin on guys and exposing skin on girls" is, frankly, ridiculous)

Yes, it's their "artistic vision". That doesn't mean it's immune to criticism or automatically makes it non-sexist.

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I think with a female character called "Creamy Goodness" you're doing much more to objectify females than any skimpy armor could, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

1. Objectification...is a VERB.

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No. No, it is not. I stopped reading there.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

I think with a female character called "Creamy Goodness" you're doing much more to objectify females than any skimpy armor could, anyway.

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Wow, stooped to personal attacks now?

1) I never mentioned objectifying women
2) you have no idea where my character name comes from or why I chose it (incidentally, it didn't come from a female character).

And why you think my name is remotely related to women says more about your own mind.

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Originally Posted by seida

Wow, stooped to personal attacks now?

1) I never mentioned objectifying women
2) you have no idea where my character name comes from or why I chose it (incidentally, it didn't come from a female character).

And why you think my name is remotely related to women says more about your own mind.

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So wait, we've been called "sexist" since the start of the thread pretty much, and only NOW you start seeing "personal attacks"? Wow.

And btw, I assure you that MANY people will think interesting stuff when they notice your nickname. Not only Riepah :P

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

That argument would work better if you truly needed BIS gear for a particular level to be able to level to 50 or run level appropriate dungeons. You don't.

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Completely missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

We don't feel insulted or "reduced" or threatened or whatever, and we don't insult, "reduce" or threaten female chars by stating we like their skimpy outfits.

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Good for you. Too bad no one here but you is talking as if they are the general populace. Personally, I'm not saying that I feel "reduced", "insulted" or "threatened" by skimpy outfits. I just want a choice in the matter. My whm mini-skirt/underwear certainly didn't give me a choice of whether or not I wanted my ass to be hanging out. It just was out and I had to deal with it.
I got the acton to cover up my butt as soon as a friend mentioned that my ass cheeks were hanging out and I felt embarrassed.

And no, you personally may not be when stating that you like skimpy outfits but the entire game industry caters to the male population that wants women in revealing outfits for their pleasure. They don't actually care if women like to wear it or not.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Since you said that it's not a matter of the practicality, or that it's still tame, how is it objectifying?

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I'm not going to address your first portion because like I said to Teryaani, it's not the point. The best stats are what I wanted, the revealing top not so much.
I actually found it hilarious how even when I was a male Miqote that the shawl was more covered up than the female one.

But the reason why it's objectifying is that the male one doesn't have the skin showing. Why not make the drg AF equal and have skin showing for both? If that was the case, it would lead to the only other argument which is that it's impractical.
Why does the female one need the skin window? It's objectifying because the female one IS the only one that does has the skin showing. Why? Because of the unsaid reasoning that in the mind of the developers they wanted skin to show on a female model. Why? Because it's sexy and they want a woman to have skin showing. They don't think it's sexy for men to have the belly window so they covered it up. It's a double standard.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Do you also (not just you, everyone on that side of the fence) consider nude classical art to be tasteless, sexist, or objectifying?

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I honestly can't believe I'm answering this but if we're going by common classical examples, no, it isn't. Back then, the idea of nudity was to behold the human body in its glory. It's also why the original olympics were done in the nude. Celebration of man's natural form. However, that is not what FFXIV developers had in mind when they developed some of the outfits for female's in this game.
Fanservice, which is what they had in mind, is a harmless word until you understand its meaning. It's the idea that either gender is objectified for the other gender. It happens on both sides and both sides is sexist and highly against the actual core idea of feminism.

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Originally Posted by Amused

Because then it's a double standard.

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It's not. The thread is about Women and Armor. If the men wanted to complain about their armor, they would do so in a Male and Armor thread. I'm saying that they aren't complaining here in this specific thread so therefore it had no place to be brought up here.

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Originally Posted by seida

Wow, stooped to personal attacks now?

1) I never mentioned objectifying women
2) you have no idea where my character name comes from or why I chose it (incidentally, it didn't come from a female character).

And why you think my name is remotely related to women says more about your own mind.

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No, you chose to name a pale skinned female Elezen "Creamy Goodness". There are few people who would see that name tied to that character and wouldn't at least question the reasons. You not realizing that has more to do with you than it does with the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Completely missing the point.

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Oh? What was your point with this?

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

That's not true. If you want the best stats available for the current level, you're gonna be forced into wearing certain pieces. In my earlier post, it's the coliseum shawl... People posted alternatives but that didn't actually make them better. The coliseum shawl is always gonna be better than the Harlequin acton. If I want the best stats, I'm forced into the shawl or I'm gimp.

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"Stats matter and the gear that has the best stats looks risque" is what I read. I didn't misread that. Your "point" was that you were confined to a skimpy item because of the stats. I pointed out that you weren't. Showing you that your argument doesn't work isn't missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

There was a time when there was no impractical gear in this game. They're moving away from that.

Just because other games set a low bar, doesn't mean that's the bar to judge against.

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I laugh when I hear this. Impractical armor. Is it wise to go face to face in a cloth robe (that covers all your skin) when facing a sword wielder in armor? Where's the practicality in that? One swing and your bleeding!

Jesus Christ...the hell happened!?

People are talking about objectification, sexism and the kitchen sink without knowing the hell it means, cherrypicking Primals as sexism evidence(SERIOUSLY?! Freaking Primals!? If anything, in most myths and religions about the gods, the females AND males are usually NAKED, if not looking completely beyond our comprehension so if anything, Garuda and Shiva are more covered up than the naked Ifrit and Lioncloth only Titan...and why the hell am I even talking about this???) and stupid crap about how stats suddenly mean everything in a game where you can still be practical DPS with 15 gear in 30 instances...


Just this thread...so I'm gonna break this down...as best as I freaking can:

1. Objectification...is a VERB. It's not a noun, pronoun, adjective, homonym, whatever. IT IS A VERB MEANING TO MAKE SOMETHING INTO AN OBJECT! Sexual Objectification means to turn something sexual INTO AN OBJECT! Which means that you YOURSELF have to make it into an object. I don't objectify a single character, whether they be my own, NPC or even Primal but if you do and then suddenly scream sexism...you have a problem, not anyone else, just you.

2. Unless you are looking to simply mini-max, there's no point in whining about stats PERIOD. And even then, why not make High Quality Equipment? Why not level to 45 and ignore the Coliseum Equipment? This is literally the dumbest argument I heard and the sheer fact Ophie keeps bringing it up is just freaking PATHETIC. You have MULTITUDES of ways to get something else, hell, you can just glamour the damn thing away, I seriously doubt Glamour parts is hard to buy at all so the fact you can't even do that means you are just complaining to complain.

3. Primals don't even freaking OPERATE on the same plane of THOUGHT, you think they honestly give a DAMN about how they are dressed, let alone look? I seriously doubt Garuda, the most bloodthirsty of the 3 starter Primals, honestly flusters herself on how she looks...
And I highly doubt Minfillia is even a freaking fighter, so who gives a damn what she wears(which the only offense...is a damn tubetop)? Seriously, I've seen far more covered ladies than men in this game and people still whine about sexism?

4. For the last time...if you whining about practicality about the belly opening...yet not about the freaking spikes EVERYWHERE ELSE on the damn armor, then there is no reason to keep talking about how stupid the Female Dragoon AF is. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the damn thing on principle and it looks FINE. If this was the real world, it would be a practical nightmare...but guess what? It's a DAMN GAME! And besides, GLAMOUR IT OFF if you hate it that much.

God, these forums get more ridiculous by the damn day! It was from a funny joke to suddenly being stupid serious and not even being factual about it.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Good for you. Too bad no one here but you is talking as if they are the general populace. Personally, I'm not saying that I feel "reduced", "insulted" or "threatened" by skimpy outfits. I just want a choice in the matter. My whm mini-skirt/underwear certainly didn't give me a choice of whether or not I wanted my ass to be hanging out. It just was out and I had to deal with it.
I got the acton to cover up my butt as soon as a friend mentioned that my ass cheeks were hanging out and I felt embarrassed.

And no, you personally may not be when stating that you like skimpy outfits but the entire game industry caters to the male population that wants women in revealing outfits for their pleasure. They don't actually care if women like to wear it or not.

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"The entire game industry catering to the male population" might have been true in the past, but sure as hell things are changing - just look at the latest Dragon Age. But back on topic, you are accusing me of "talking as if I were the general populace", when in this thread there are people wishing developers would change armors FOR EVERYONE just because they do not approve them. Sure, some players support this request, as some other players are openly against it. We, discussing here, are only an irrelevant minority so if you accuse me of "speaking as if I am the general populace" the same could be said to you and other people supporting your view.

I can easily speak singular instead of plural, and it would not change anything.

As said, you HAVE choice. Most of the armors in this game are NOT revealing on females - some of them clearly are, yes, because the same design on males would be ridiculous and the developers wanted to give females some cute and sexy designs. . So what? Glamour them. You are talking as if FFXIV was Tera Online, come on.

Also..embarassed because your pixel avatar is showing a bit of ass? Are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

That is you speaking as if you're the general populace. I'm not accusing. I'm pointing out a fact. The only thing that could be said of me is that I'm speaking of myself as in all my posts, I've said "Personally" and lots of "I, me's" and other such singular whatnot.

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That was me stating the most likely reason "male players are not complaining about revealing male armors", cause there are plenty of scantily clad male characters and NPCs running around, for sure. And I still stand my ground, I really do believe that male players simply do not care about it / do not see it as "objectifying", and this is why they are not complaining. I hardly see threads about "OMG male armors are too revealing" on this forum. So yeah, I was speaking as the "general populace" in this specific context and I still believe I was right. Sue me.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

And what others on this thread are saying is that it's ridiculous to them. Why are the males protected by the "ridiculous" clause but women aren't? There are people who find the DRG AF window ridiculous but it doesn't protect the female design of it.
Personally, I'd love to see the idea of what's cute and sexy from a woman's perspective vs. a male's but given that I have no idea how many women actually compromise the developing team...

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Males are protected by the "ridiculous" clause because that's how it is. Ever noticed how many females wear the recently introduced male wedding gear, and manage to look cool in it? Ever seen a male char looking cool by dressing with the female dress?
Thought so.
As said, you can't put an absolute territory on a male Roegadyn and not find it ridiculous and grotesque. Female chars are usually blessed with the ability to be able to wear pretty much anything without looking like this:

https://riikorinkoko.files.wordpress...dibrand-11.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

If you don't understand that point of view, then that is purely you being unable to see the perspective of someone else.

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http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4o2yn0LQtO...pot-kettle.jpg

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

We, discussing here, are only an irrelevant minority so if you accuse me of "speaking as if I am the general populace" the same could be said to you and other people supporting your view.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

We are not complaining about it because we believe it's an unreasonable complaint, for BOTH sexes. We don't feel insulted or "reduced" or threatened or whatever, and we don't insult, "reduce" or threaten female chars by stating we like their skimpy outfits.

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That is you speaking as if you're the general populace. I'm not accusing. I'm pointing out a fact. The only thing that could be said of me is that I'm speaking of myself as in all my posts, I've said "Personally" and lots of "I, me's" and other such singular whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

...some of them clearly are, yes, because the same design on males would be ridiculous and the developers wanted to give females some cute and sexy designs.

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And what others on this thread are saying is that it's ridiculous to them. Why are the males protected by the "ridiculous" clause but women aren't? There are people who find the DRG AF window ridiculous but it doesn't protect the female design of it.
Personally, I'd love to see the idea of what's cute and sexy from a woman's perspective vs. a male's but given that I have no idea how many women actually compromise the developing team...

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Also..embarassed because your pixel avatar is showing a bit of ass? Are you serious?

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Yeah, though you clearly find it silly, me being embarrassed is as normal as you wanting to appear sexy or cute to yourself or to others in game. Your character is sometimes the only face that people will ever see of you. It's your image and should reflect what you want it to reflect. If you don't understand that point of view, then that is purely you being unable to see the perspective of someone else.

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

And I highly doubt Minfillia is even a freaking fighter, so who gives a damn what she wears(which the only offense...is a damn tubetop)? Seriously, I've seen far more covered ladies than men in this game and people still whine about sexism?

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Livia put it best :p

http://i.imgur.com/YSlIvsb.jpg

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

What the hell are you talking about?

Also, if feminism is about equality, just call it "equalitism" then, not FEMINism. Just sayin'.

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Your character looks quite a bit like Tupsi's.

Sorry to inform you but I'm not the one who came up with the term. I also think calling it something else would be good for the movement because of the negative associations misandrists have gotten attached to it and because uninformed people tend to make the assumption that it only affects females when that isn't true.

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Originally Posted by Magis

you want to remove the ability for other women and men to dress up their characters how they see fit

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http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/129...facepalm-o.gif

No. That is not what I want. That is not what anyone wants, and it's getting really ridiculous how often some of you keep accusing people of this.

The Star Wars anecdote was a bit exaggerated, but the point was that Leia's decision to stop trotting around in underwear when given the chance has no impact whatsoever on your own freedoms or outfit selection. When, in that story, did Leia track down all bikinis in the galaxy and have them destroyed? When did she pass a law, banning women from showing their skin? She was just making a choice for herself. It should not have to be a debate. But because she didn't want to parade around in revealing, sexy outfits all the time, Han Solo threw a totally inappropriate conniption fit. Which is basically what half of you are doing in this thread, in response to someone simply asking for female characters to not be treated by default as models for swimsuits and dominatrix gear.

FFXIV is not nearly as bad as most other games, of course. Here is what typically passes for female "armor" in Tera, for example. But the point still holds, that there is a disparity between how male and female armor is designed, and how much skin either of those show off. Should a female dragoon be able to show their midriff and look sexy? Sure, why not, this is a fantasy game, let people dress their characters as they please. But why can't we get the fully-covered version, as well? And why can't we simply ask for it, without it being a freaking controversy?

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

Sorry to inform you but I'm not the one who came up with the term. I also think calling it something else would be good for the movement because of the negative associations misandrists have gotten attached to it and because uninformed people tend to make the assumption that it only affects females when that isn't true.

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Sometimes people just refer to it as "gender equality," which I suppose is probably a better term and captures the spirit of it better. But on the other hand, people are going to misrepresent your position no matter what you call it.

So tl;dr of this entire thread seems to be:

There are a select few pieces of gear that are more revealing on certain female models and gdi if we're not going to run with it and try and paint FFXIV as a sexist game where all female characters walk around in chainmail bikinis.

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Originally Posted by Miitan

So tl;dr of this entire thread seems to be:

There are a select few pieces of gear that are more revealing on certain female models and gdi if we're not going to run with it and try and paint FFXIV as a sexist game where all female characters walk around in chainmail bikinis.

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In a nutshell...

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Livia put it best :p

http://i.imgur.com/YSlIvsb.jpg

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Why would she want to live in her armor? The comment by Livia makes little since, as one doesn't tend to wear full plate mail while sitting behind a desk at what is generally ones home. :p

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

I don't see the issue. The only reason for a female miqo'te to exist is to satisfy fanservice. It's pretty much a species engineered for that sole reason.

Developer 1: "Hey, let's put a catgirl race in the game, but let's NOT make it fanservice!"
Developer 2: "what"

too bad Developer 1 was probably Yoshida and Developer 2 some peon.

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Correction: Developer 1 would be Tanaka, as he created Mithra on FFXI, and the Miqo'te are our version of FFXI's Mithra.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

No. That is not what I want. That is not what anyone wants, and it's getting really ridiculous how often some of you keep accusing people of this.

The Star Wars anecdote was a bit exaggerated, but the point was that Leia's decision to stop trotting around in underwear when given the chance has no impact whatsoever on your own freedoms or outfit selection. When, in that story, did Leia track down all bikinis in the galaxy and have them destroyed? When did she pass a law, banning women from showing their skin? She was just making a choice for herself. It should not have to be a debate. But because she didn't want to parade around in revealing, sexy outfits all the time, Han Solo threw a totally inappropriate conniption fit. Which is basically what half of you are doing in this thread, in response to someone simply asking for female characters to not be treated by default as models for swimsuits and dominatrix gear.

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So then what is your complaint here? You are given the choice if you want to wear said armour or not thanks to the glamor system. You aren't forced to wear something because of it's stats, you can change it to w.e you want.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

FFXIV is not nearly as bad as most other games, of course. Here is what typically passes for female "armor" in Tera, for example. But the point still holds, that there is a disparity between how male and female armor is designed, and how much skin either of those show off. Should a female dragoon be able to show their midriff and look sexy? Sure, why not, this is a fantasy game, let people dress their characters as they please. But why can't we get the fully-covered version, as well? And why can't we simply ask for it, without it being a freaking controversy?

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Tera is laughed at by most people for it's art direction, especially concerning their skimpy demon race. You might as well have said Scarlet Blade. Anyway, this is a FFXIV board, and people here are primarily talking about FFXIV. So you have a problem with one or two pieces of armour when you can replace it with countless other sets. I too have a problem with some armour, and decided to glamor it over. This sounds more like making the issue a mountain out of a molehill.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

Your character looks quite a bit like Tupsi's.

Sorry to inform you but I'm not the one who came up with the term. I also think calling it something else would be good for the movement because of the negative associations misandrists have gotten attached to it and because uninformed people tend to make the assumption that it only affects females when that isn't true.

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I heard the term "egalitarian" used.

I don't see how making armor the same across genders is inhibiting any kind of creativity. That's as silly as making the design of each piece of armor exclusive to race. Imagine if every piece of armor looked like a harness/subligar combo on a male roe? I mean, I personally wouldn't mind too terribly much at the novelty at first, but I know a LOT of people who would flip their sh*t at the very notion.

There are alterations that make sense from a modesty perspective (the Coliseum gear is one such example), but for the most part, gear like the DRG and NIN AF chests have absolutely no reason to be showing any skin whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

Livia put it best :p

http://i.imgur.com/YSlIvsb.jpg

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Which would make sense...if Minfillia was a fighter...which again, I highly doubt she is, so why would she wear armor?
Livia virtually said it because she's taking no prisoners and isn't listening to demands of any kind, watch that scene again.

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Originally Posted by Riepah

No. No, it is not. I stopped reading there.

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1. So the hell what? Objectify, Objectification, same crap.

2. You have no right to talk anyways as this damn topic has turned stupid real fast and I felt stupider reading this whole thing which is probably why I screwed that up.

Have fun in this crap.