Monk should be more rewarding

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

I have no idea where this crazy idea that MNK have low AoE damage came from, its insane. During Perfect Balance, Monk IS the highest AoE damage with the possible exception of WHM. Even without it MNK does, I would argue, the highest non-BLM/WHM AoE damage even if it is a bit expensive.

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This is just...wow. I'm laughing so hard because you know not of how wrong you are.

If you crit on monk with your aoe you can be on par or just below a non-crit double flare, but this is burst damage since its only viable every three minutes. A lot of you probably haven't even tested this so you can't really have a say on it.

(Read to pg10) best solution-》give mnk a trait that gives them an extra GL stack when they perform a prefect combo (just 1, with pb not affecting it)
Perfect combo being gong through all forms with perfect positioning on each move
Edit: the extra stack would only last through one combo, so you have to continually hit the perfect position through your combos to keep up top dps. fight mechanics would keep it in check though so that monks don't get too op (that way the skill factor towards monks is increased since that is what i think they currently lack)

They need only reduce PB cool down. Nothing crazy.

Reading earlier in the thread (sorry, I skipped all pages after 2), people are saying that DRG are better to take than MNK because of the extra piercing damage that DRG offers BRD, and that maybe another class that can use extra blunt damage will equal things out a bit for MNK.

I don't like that line of thinking or design decision. That means very specific DPS combinations are needed and pigeon-holds group composition. To maximize damage and your groups success you need DRG + BRD or MNK + ???. That will put unnecessary burdens on people trying to put groups together for end-game content. Just have each melee class put on a physical damage increasing debuff that doesn't stack, and now they perform the same function and aren't forced into a certain group composition.

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Originally Posted by Geryth

Reading earlier in the thread (sorry, I skipped all pages after 2), people are saying that DRG are better to take than MNK because of the extra piercing damage that DRG offers BRD, and that maybe another class that can use extra blunt damage will equal things out a bit for MNK.

I don't like that line of thinking or design decision. That means very specific DPS combinations are needed and pigeon-holds group composition. To maximize damage and your groups success you need DRG + BRD or MNK + ???. That will put unnecessary burdens on people trying to put groups together for end-game content. Just have each melee class put on a physical damage increasing debuff that doesn't stack, and now they perform the same function and aren't forced into a certain group composition.

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I'm not a summoner but I'm just wondering if any smn's pet does blunt damage that can work as a good combination with monk?

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Originally Posted by Umero

I'm not a summoner but I'm just wondering if any smn's pet does blunt damage that can work as a good combination with monk?

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Ifrit. At least that's what's I saw the SMNs say on their thread.
They seemed pretty sure about it, but it doesn't matter too much until they buff Ifrit since he's inferior to Garuda on any real fight.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Ifrit. At least that's what's I saw the SMNs say on their thread.
They seemed pretty sure about it, but it doesn't matter too much until they buff Ifrit since he's inferior to Garuda on any real fight.

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Even if Ifrit does, its not like SMNs always use Ifrit as their pets

Most of the time its Garuda so it doesnt quite help the case for us Monks

monk.. AoE.. is good? HUH

I don't know where you live but I believe a good guess would be Colorado because you are smoking something. Monks are the wow rogue of FFXIV. Triple damage from behind, health regen based on attack power, can attack with nearly no prep time, and getting aggro shedding like a sudtility rogue on World of Warcraft....I can tell you DRG don't get the "Phoenix Wright" you Monks get so I call this thread a whine and cheese post.

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Originally Posted by AruTheUnicorn

I don't know where you live but I believe a good guess would be Colorado because you are smoking something. Monks are the wow rogue of FFXIV. Triple damage from behind, health regen based on attack power, can attack with nearly no prep time, and getting aggro shedding like a sudtility rogue on World of Warcraft....I can tell you DRG don't get the "Phoenix Wright" you Monks get so I call this thread a whine and cheese post.

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mm k..

On a more important note, I'd like to see a 50 MNK pls

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Originally Posted by MrDiezel

monk.. AoE.. is good? HUH

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QFT

so....leviathan is not very kind to monks at all.

I know this fight is easy and it's on farm status just 3 days in so it's nothing to be worried about but all the dives forces you to drop GL and during the 4 orbs phase melee dps is severely punished due to inability to apply dots to multiple targets.

I can totally see myself farming this solely as a drg who can buff bard attack, backflip out of heavy and in general maintain a healthy dps.

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Originally Posted by adahn

so....leviathan is not very kind to monks at all.

I know this fight is easy and it's on farm status just 3 days in so it's nothing to be worried about but all the dives forces you to drop GL and during the 4 orbs phase melee dps is severely punished due to inability to apply dots to multiple targets.

I can totally see myself farming this solely as a drg who can buff bard attack, backflip out of heavy and in general maintain a healthy dps.

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The job needs some very needed tweaks and one thing I would like to see is greased lightning moved as a passive effect instead of something activated and then afterwards looking over the positional requirements of the job because it needs some serious tweaking. Its the only class that I've seen that has the biggest issues dpsing in the game.

I was thinking that in order to ease the stress of the rotation, it'd be nice if there was an ability that automatically refreshed demolish for us within the combo system. I've found that a great deal of monks are simply skipping or neglecting their DoTs; despite how integral it is to the system.

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Originally Posted by Rakashu

I was thinking that in order to ease the stress of the rotation, it'd be nice if there was an ability that automatically refreshed demolish for us within the combo system. I've found that a great deal of monks are simply skipping or neglecting their DoTs; despite how integral it is to the system.

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Monks may be weak to GL dropping mechanics but we don't need hand holding for the actual rotation.
If people are neglecting their dots, that's a player problem. They should just stop doing that.

A shorter PB CD or an ability like the pvp one that instantly grants GL3 (with a reasonable cooldown) would be best.
I don't think we're that badly off, but we suffer from mechanics more than others.

This is the dumbest thread i have read in a while, and not because of the DRG vs MNK debate that goes on forever. I think this thread itself signifies the main problem with FFXIV community Mentality as a whole. DRG is taking the Melee slot from monk?? LOL!! thats not DRGs problem, thats a your parties mentality thats having 3 rng and a obligatory Melee slot. DRG and MNK should not be fighting over who takes the melee slot, that is just stupid. Instead we should both be fighting together and showing all the people who choose only 1 for the sake of"2 melee not being optimized for the fight", that 2 melee is so much more dps.

For one, shoulder tackle needs to bind instead of stun so you can use it without screwing up stun-rotations on bosses like Ifrit HM.

Also Perfect Balance needs to retain the form/stance of your final move for smoother transition. GL duration upped by 2 seconds.

As someone who has played Monk since I started, and dedicated quite a lot of time to it, I can attest to the fact that there does need to be a bit of a buff. While I agree, during a static fight, where the boss just stands there and takes it, my DPS is always the highest in the party. But in fights where the boss runs/jumps away, it is exceedingly difficult to keep Greased Lightning up. Monk is advertised by everyone to be the highest DPS in the game, hands down, no arguments, game over, but that just isn't the case with most of the higher content fights, like primals. An increase in the duration would be awesome, by a couple seconds, or the stacks only falling off one at a time every 12 seconds, I would be ok with that too.

I don't think that Perfect Balance needs a reduction in cooldown though. That would be NICE but not something that would really give the edge in these situations. Mainly because, even with a decrease in Cooldown, a party with GOOD DPS will burn through the phases way faster than any longer cooldown, and you would have to make it absurdly low to adjust for that.

I don't really have any kind of problem on levi EX as a monk, just play cleverly ! that and, you always got the time, except for the single caster add, to build to at least GL 2 before botherin to do your next move.

Any more rewarding & we would break the game with our damage.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

I don't really have any kind of problem on levi EX as a monk, just play cleverly ! that and, you always got the time, except for the single caster add, to build to at least GL 2 before botherin to do your next move.

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Not just levi, in general is the topic

I know right. Monk may be the strongest melee in the game by a huge margin, but I think we're missing the big picture here, and that's how hard it is to keep up greased lightning in PvP! WHAT GIVES!!!

Except for when it happens in intervals less than 180 seconds from the start of the fight(just about anything that isn't Twintania, haven't been in t6< yet.)

Im but a low level monk, but in making the comparison between monk and dragoon I havent seen a few things mentioned. This is all theorycrafting, let me know if Im missing something.
1. Mnk has better party support through enhanced mantra and the INT reduction on dragon kick. Enhanced healing and reduced boss damage vs buffing one of the weakest dps? Mnk seems to play better with others.
2. Mnk has more damage multipliers over dragoon, leading to increased limit break damage. Most parties want to bring one melee dps for lb, so why not the one that can push more damage?

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Originally Posted by ChaelFeist

Im but a low level monk, but in making the comparison between monk and dragoon I havent seen a few things mentioned. This is all theorycrafting, let me know if Im missing something.
1. Mnk has better party support through enhanced mantra and the INT reduction on dragon kick. Enhanced healing and reduced boss damage vs buffing one of the weakest dps? Mnk seems to play better with others.
2. Mnk has more damage multipliers over dragoon, leading to increased limit break damage. Most parties want to bring one melee dps for lb, so why not the one that can push more damage?

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Limit Break damage is purely based on the weapon damage values of every party member. It is entirely independent of the player that uses it, except for determining what type of limit break to use based on said player's job.

That is why in a party with a well geared MNK/DRG and a relatively poorly geared MNK/DRG, it is customary to have the lesser-geared one do the LB. If deciding between a MNK and a DRG, it is customary to let the DRG do it, so the MNK can maintain GL3.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

The job needs some very needed tweaks and one thing I would like to see is greased lightning moved as a passive effect instead of something activated and then afterwards looking over the positional requirements of the job because it needs some serious tweaking. Its the only class that I've seen that has the biggest issues dpsing in the game.

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GL3 needs to be passive? Lmao no it doesn't.
Monk is purposely built around GL3 falling off and finding ways to try to keep maximum uptime.
And positional requirements need to be looked at... Lol why? Because you're to lazy or terrible at the game to deal with them ?

Most of us here like the way mnk plays

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Originally Posted by SmugGnat

Any more rewarding & we would break the game with our damage.

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Going with that logic, if we're that "game-breaking" then we should always be the "go-to" class in EVERY situation since we just "break" the game

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

That is why in a party with a well geared MNK/DRG and a relatively poorly geared MNK/DRG, it is customary to have the lesser-geared one do the LB. If deciding between a MNK and a DRG, it is customary to let the DRG do it, so the MNK can maintain GL3.

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While I am in total agreeance of this, it is still possible, but semi difficult to maintain GL3 while using a LB, especially Level 3, you have to have a higher skill speed and get on your moves the absolute moment you can.

Didn't say it was impossible. Simply put, it's risky. DRG can just yolo it though.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Didn't say it was impossible. Simply put, it's risky. DRG can just yolo it though.

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Lol yeah, they don't have forms and GL to keep up like we do.

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Originally Posted by Grimm08

As someone who has played Monk since I started, and dedicated quite a lot of time to it, I can attest to the fact that there does need to be a bit of a buff. While I agree, during a static fight, where the boss just stands there and takes it, my DPS is always the highest in the party. But in fights where the boss runs/jumps away, it is exceedingly difficult to keep Greased Lightning up. Monk is advertised by everyone to be the highest DPS in the game, hands down, no arguments, game over, but that just isn't the case with most of the higher content fights, like primals. An increase in the duration would be awesome, by a couple seconds, or the stacks only falling off one at a time every 12 seconds, I would be ok with that too.

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If you can quote to me the source of Yoshi-P sayin all of that, then ill agree with you, until then this is just not true no matter how you look at it. If we are on the subject of making up statements on how monk should play and what monk is, let me be the first to say that i dont believe Monks are built to keep GL3 stacks full time. You do crazy sustained dmg in bursts though. You said it yourself, you destroy dps when yo are able to tank and spank a fight. Any other fight you are balanced with everyone else. Dont you think that signifies that maybe, just maybe, you arent supposed to have GL up full time all the time? Monks are far from crap DPS the fact that this thread exisits is just bad.PLay your class, play it well, and being replaced for a DRG will never happen, Never.

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Originally Posted by ChaelFeist

Im but a low level monk, but in making the comparison between monk and dragoon I havent seen a few things mentioned. This is all theorycrafting, let me know if Im missing something.
1. Mnk has better party support through enhanced mantra and the INT reduction on dragon kick. Enhanced healing and reduced boss damage vs buffing one of the weakest dps? Mnk seems to play better with others.
2. Mnk has more damage multipliers over dragoon, leading to increased limit break damage. Most parties want to bring one melee dps for lb, so why not the one that can push more damage?

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Bard is actually one of the most consistent DPS in the game. It doesn't need to be game shatteringly high when it almost never misses, doesn't have to worry about positioning, and can move without losing uptime. So devaluing Dragoon for upping Bard while overvaluing INT bombing (when both SMN and SCH have access to in a highly potent form) seems highly misleading.

Nah homie, I never said that it was advertised in the game, but before I started I did a lot of research on all of the DPS classes, and everyone was talking about how far ahead of the others Monk is, stating that it is the only class (at the time) that can sustain a DPS of 300+. With the newest gear, that's definitely not the case, but, all things considered, It's still very consistent and some of the highest burst if you pop all your cooldowns at once (outside of Flare spamming).

I think it's much less useful to talk about how about how high a DPS can get (a good player will always out damage a bad player regardless of class) and more useful to talk about consistency. Monk is more consistent than some, but can lose uptime due to dropping GL or losing positionals.

So… no one bothers to use mrhappy12's Monk rotation? Easily the best rotation available. Worried about losing GL stacks? Use PB to build them up. Lost stacks after PB proc? Build them up again. Just play the role. No use arguing about "DRG betr DPS than mnk lloolololololol" because that just starts up a shitstorm of flamezwarz. I personally have both Monk and Dragoon and I love both roles. Dragoon just feels slower to me, so that's why I prefer Monk over it.

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

Worried about losing GL stacks? Use PB to build them up. Lost stacks after PB proc? Build them up again. Just play the role.

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Thanks dude. Mindblowing advice. Can i subscribe to your newsletter if its free?

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Originally Posted by Megido

Thanks dude. Mindblowing advice. Can i subscribe to your newsletter if its free?

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I think you don't get the point. I will re-phrase it : you did a mistake and lost GL twice ? Deal with it, and stop whining here.

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Originally Posted by Grimm08

While I am in total agreeance of this, it is still possible, but semi difficult to maintain GL3 while using a LB, especially Level 3, you have to have a higher skill speed and get on your moves the absolute moment you can.

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My skillspeed is in the 370+ and I can still use LB without losing GL3. :/ You just have to hit it during the animation since it's off GCD.