[[ Why do we miss the old FFXI community ]] What made it special ??

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Originally Posted by Argent_Wings

Pay attention to most threads concerning Binding Coil of Bahamut and you will see a lot of the same things going on here. Some classes through no fault of their own are already struggling to advance without their static raid groups because people discriminate based on what they think they know about someone else.

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This is a very valid concern, but when you speak about class discrimination, you must also know, my favorite class in FFXI is Puppet Master. Though I often went to runs as a Paladin or Mkriss dark knight.

When people compare your parse to another players without adding the damage from the puppet, then you can complain about discrimination.

I think the problem behind all of this is people want it both ways.

They want everyone else to have optimal gear, and the optimal classes for every event. But they also want to be the snowflake that gets to do what ever they want.

There was a post earlier here in general by someone threatening to unsub the game because he couldn't find a tank for lowbie dungeons.

He felt he should not have to level a tank to take part in content.
But on the other side.
Does that mean someone else should have to level a tank so he can enjoy content?

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

LOL "rude or illiterate" "Perhaps they deserved this treatment" plus more than suggesting that anyone that disagrees with you is toxic. It's funny. The fact that you don't think that's ad hominem betrays your own passive-aggressive approach. And really shows that you were one of the problems within the XI community that we're talking about. You pretend to be civil and nice on the outside, but you clearly are a complete doucher.

So, right back atcha. You prove exactly what we've been saying. The XI community had MANY people who put on a pretentious, self-righteous, "civil" exterior while being truly nasty towards those whom you don't particularly like, and an elitist ass to those whom you felt didn't deserve your attention.

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I do apologize if I have been anything but polite, it is not my intention to be perceived as self-righteous or pretentious.

But I also understand in the day and age, it the realm of white-knights and tolls, trying to have a calm level headed conversation can be problematic.

And again, sorry if I have been an 'elitist ass' but I am truly enjoying this conversation.

It also mattered what server you were on. Before the merge, Shiva was generally a very chill server. I was a helpful WHM, so I was in many different linkshells. Then I moved to gilga and got into HNM. Gilga was actually pretty chill as well. Then I moved with that ls to Phoenix, and things were very different on that server. Eventually the friends I was closest to got tired of the game. Without them I was miserable on Phoenix. So I went back to Shiva and things were exactly as I remembered. Then came the merge and the Shiva JP were always defending NA players against the merged JP. And the NA players gradually began to start having silly demands and before too long it became almost like how it is in this game now.

I am currently in a wp group with all players fake afking for like 20mins or so now.

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Originally Posted by Doo

I am currently in a wp group with all players fake afking for like 20mins or so now.

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And this is better how exactly than people ragequitting after a single attempt at a ZM boss (such as the one through Ugly-pie), or the 5-2 lich fight, or the Shadow Lord fight, or suddenly "DC"ing at the top of the towers in Promyvions, or a RDM MPKing his own party because they're not doing what he said, or a BLM who goes AFK for 40+ mins in a dunes/CN/Oubliette/Yuhtunga/Yhoator/etc party?

Yeah, that same kind of ignorant crap happened in XI too.

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

Yeah, that same kind of ignorant crap happened in XI too.

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Whm finally decided to leave with 17 mins left. Never experienced any of the type of things you described in ffxi, I'm sure it happened just not as frequent. FFXIV feels like it's full of players with bad manners honestly.

I think a lot of the rose-colored glasses come from people that never or rarely saw the worst of the worst that FFXI had to offer. Most people in FFXI stuck to the level treadmill. In there you might run into the occasional princess BRD who would bail on a party that wasn't performing to their demands, or maybe getting booted as a DRG for not having a Scorpion Harness yet, some elitist mentality that seeped down.

If you really wanted to see toxic, you needed to be at the competitive end of content, particularly endgame. People organizing Dynamis shells and splitting with millions of gil worth of currency, LS leaders raiding banks, having to have an extra party at fafhoggs spawn to deal with repeated mpk attempts with darters if you got claim, rampant bot use, rival shells trying to steal your pop any way they could... It was at least as disgusting as anything i have seen in this game, and often moreso. One thing that will always stick with me and the reason why I will always scoff at anyone saying that FFXIs community was so much better; my LS was in the process of killing Fafnir, while a rival LS taunted us and were trying to steal claim. my LS leader said something along the lines you guys might want to watch it we already called a GM, and a member of the other LS said he might want to watch as he skull-****ed his mother.

This community is no better, and certainly no worse.

The big thing about XIV is that with the treadmill so short, the hardcore and the not hardcore are colliding far more than they did in older MMOs, and the mentality is coming as a shock to a lot of people.

People talk about how the game forced you to take your time, so 'everyone' did. The thing is, XI's 'everyone' isn't nearly as high of a number as XIV ARR's, at any point in time. The game forced you to join a party to make any sort of exp progress. It was such a slow grind that people wanted to minimize the time as much as possible by requiring everyone be completely up to snuff at all times on gear, level, subjob, etc. My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

Well, at least spells were automatically unlocked for free as I leveled up right? Oh, wait, had to spend a ton of gil on most of them, once I actually FOUND them, and on others I had to go on some epic quest that required a group of people who could be bothered to tag along AND happened to have time tables that matched up with mine. Not just for Whm, but I had to do the same for Blm despite not even wanting to PLAY blm. Joining a linkshell was fine and dandy but even then you had to hope you could find one with time tables that matched up with yours to get anything done, and even then odds are you were having to wait until a specific day to attempt anything other than the level grind.

I'm fine with 'earning' stuff in a game, and having to play with others to progress, but the game didn't make that easy if the community felt it was necessary to allow for absolutely 0 slack (in a GAME). The game forced you to take your time, but nobody seemed to want to. In the end, 'everyone did' because everyone else who didn't/couldn't, weren't playing the game.

I forgot to mention that in FFXIV, you still see this, but it doesn't hit until endgame. Yoshi-P said 'the game doesn't start until lvl 50', and he was right, once you hit 50, that's when you're at the mercy of people willing to come down from their high mountaintop to help the plebes get anything done.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

How is that any different than ARR? If you don't want to be a gimp MNK, you have to level lancer. If you don't want to be a gimp WHM, you have to level for Swift Cast. Etc etc. Do you have to? No, but good luck getting into Coil groups with a gimped character.

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Originally Posted by Doo

Yeah I see none of this in ffxiv currently.

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My point wasn't that FFXIV is any better, my point is that FFXI certainly wasn't. We have a larger group of people playing because the leveling treadmill's been made solo-friendly. I'd say that and the DF are improvements, but by no means was I trying to say that the game isn't suffering from the same issues at end-game.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

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How is that any different than ARR? If you don't want to be a gimp MNK, you have to level lancer. If you don't want to be a gimp WHM, you have to level for Swift Cast. Etc etc. Do you have to? No, but good luck getting into Coil groups with a gimped character.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

It was such a slow grind that people wanted to minimize the time as much as possible by requiring everyone be completely up to snuff at all times on gear, level, subjob, etc. My favorite job was Whm, but that meant I had to also play Blm whether I liked it or not.

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Yeah I see none of this in ffxiv currently.

I found the ARR community great, though I was partying on a JP server. However from threads and comments of groups at lvl 50... I heard the game becomes really toxic. Maybe that was the case with FFXI too (never got to 75) but I met the nicest people in parties as well as the linkshell I was in. As others said, I think it has to do with the game forcing people to cooperate as well as giving consequences to being a jackass.

Careful guys, theres a moderator going around deleting threads about ffxi if it puts ffxiv in a bad light. *eyerolls*

Just noticed that other thread was gone, unless it got really uncivil at the end there why was it deleted? At most a mod should have replied and then locked it. To just delete the thread is stupid.

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"Due to us not liking the other thread as it said things that were true, we have simply removed it! Out of sight, out of mind right?

We look forward to you all running WP/AK endlessly for months to come. Enjoy FFXIV:ARR!"

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Ah I see it all now lol.

a good mmo should not go for large numbers, but instead, long term accounts. i think 500,000 was a very good amount of players to have, durring 11's peak, and keep in mind, alot of the players come and go all the time, and alot are long-term players. wowclone mmos such as this one suffer from the 2 month curse, after most players steamroll right thru the game, they lose interest having to wait for the small and minuscule patch updates.

I see nothing wrong with elitism/perfectionism. It's the attitude of some of these people that bothers me. I was shouting in MD last night for a speed run and got in a group with everyone who was geared and ready for a speed run accept a fresh 50 whm(we had to DF him). We wiped twice but none of us with relics bitched at the whm because he couldn't heal fast enough or help with holy. He asked us advise and apologized for being a noob(which he did not have to do). We gave him advise on what to do and he got a taste of a speed run(sort of). Still finished it faster than if it was a normal run.

Elitism is not bad, it is the attitude of these people being assholes that makes it toxic.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

I see nothing wrong with elitism/perfectionism. It's the attitude of some of these people that bothers me. I was shouting in MD last night for a speed run and got in a group with everyone who was geared and ready for a speed run accept a fresh 50 whm(we had to DF him). We wiped twice but none of us with relics bitched at the whm because he couldn't heal fast enough or help with holy. He asked us advise and apologized for being a noob(which he did not have to do). We gave him advise on what to do and he got a taste of a speed run(sort of). Still finished it faster than if it was a normal run.

Elitism is not bad, it is the attitude of these people being assholes that makes it toxic.

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That isn't elitism, my friend. I won't be a jerk and copy and paste definitions, but there's a difference in expecting great things of yourself and being intolerable of your own failures, and expecting great things of every single person you meet, being intolerable when THEY fail AND coming down on them like a scud missile because of it. People who, for example, believe Binding Coil of Bahamut belongs to them and their kind(the ones with epic gear and "experience")and not the teaming masses of uncoordinated "nobodies" are wearing their elitism on their sleeves and proud of it.

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Originally Posted by Argent_Wings

That isn't elitism, my friend. I won't be a jerk and copy and paste definitions, but there's a difference in expecting great things of yourself and being intolerable of your own failures, and expecting great things of every single person you meet, being intolerable when THEY fail AND coming down on them like a scud missile because of it. People who, for example, believe Binding Coil of Bahamut belongs to them and their kind(the ones with epic gear and "experience")and not the teaming masses of uncoordinated "nobodies" are wearing their elitism on their sleeves and proud of it.

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I stand corrected, ty.
Nothing wrong with being a perfectionist. /fixed

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Originally Posted by Cailae

"people who think FFXI's community was so great was during the level treadmill and never made it to end game to experience the true toxicity of FFXI

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I think you're exactly right. I loved the community while I was leveling up. But because the game was such a massive time sink, I never made it past 73 :(.

You make a great point though.

You weren't seeing spam of people selling carries 24/7. The server I'm on i think the largest fc even charges it's own members for titan grouping. lol

FFXI had an extremely toxic endgame community back in the day. A browse over at bluegartrls.com XI Drama (click at the top) shows how it was.

Wind back to 2004. People were in 4k/hour EXP parties. That meant, at level 60+ where 30,000 EXP requirements were the norm, it took a minimum of EIGHT HOURS to get a single level. Naturally people gravitated towards the jobs that could dish out the most damage, which meant rangers, rangers, and more rangers. Jobs with 2-handed weapons - DRKs and DRGs especially - were dead last when it came to who got invited. And woe betide those who didn't have extremely expensive accuracy equipment.

Mission battlefields tended to excaberate this. When Chains of Promathia was released, the promyvion bosses - even WITH anima - were almost impossible with a conventional setup. Climbing the Promyvions was sort of like climbing Mount Everest - if someone dies, you can't go back to revive them because that would endanger the rest of the group. So an alliance would get to the top with half their party missing. If you were the wrong job - usually a melee DPS - sorry, you wasted your time. The conventional wisdom of the day was "throw SMNs or RNGs at it".

Then there were the three kings. Good Moggle Mog on a stick, those three mobs were responsible for some of the most bitter drama in FFXI, especially Fafnir/Nidhogg. People would stand on Fafnir's tail and cure the tank to get hate, forcing him to use an AOE attack that hit the other 300+ people standing there waiting to claim it. Or how about binding a darter in the middle of Nidhogg's model, forcing it to spin around and cause a flail? Maybe spamming fireworks next to a party to lag them out? JPs would literally hold the mob for 8 hours to keep its spawn window in JP time. To think, it took SIX YEARS to finally fix that mess of an endgame model, to make those 3 forced spawn.

But wait, there's more! Dynamis was designed around the idea that one lucky idiot would get all the currency while the plebians would lot for the 5-6 artifact armors that dropped that run. Nothing to stop the currency holder from selling the currency and splitting with the gil while the rest of us got nothing. And this activity demanded 3 hours a week, twice a week, all so one person could get rich.

FFXIV has come MILES ahead of FFXI, so far ahead that I'm convinced anyone who has good memories of FFXI's endgame community has stockholm syndrome... Maybe it varied by the server.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

FFXI had an extremely toxic endgame community back in the day. A browse over at bluegartrls.com XI Drama (click at the top) shows how it was.

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Actually, it was still really bad at the XIV 2.0 launchtime. I've been playing XI since NA PC release and the endgame was always bad. Best (recent) example would be Tojil. Tojil was ridiculous. All the drama surrounding that fight, in a dead game, in 2013. It's impressive, really, people aren't even competing and they still hate each other.

As a stun Scholar and Oats Monk, I never had issues farming Tojil for plasm, with my linkshell. But man, you wouldn't believe some of the things I saw while joining PUGs. Scholars missing their stuns (should have used animation stunning!) getting reduced to tears because someone spends five minutes bitching them out and telling them they failed the run, was a common occurence. Then the people who yelled at them shout for four hours the next day (Tojil 17/18 SCH) and wonder why they aren't getting any bites.

I'm so glad to leave XI behind.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

FFXIV has come MILES ahead of FFXI, so far ahead that I'm convinced anyone who has good memories of FFXI's endgame community has stockholm syndrome... Maybe it varied by the server.

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http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx...95k2o1_400.gif

Everything what Alyko said is pure gold. Its the beautiful truth.

Don't blame the players blame the game .

The game has poorly designed end game where you are required to run the same dungeon over and over countless times every week inorder to cap tomes 300 a week.

After a week it resets and you have to do the samething over again .

Now if they removed the cap , people would farm tomes till they got the gear they want within a week .

Then they would have nothing to do at all apart from craft / lvl new job etc .

So the cap on tomes is basically designed to get more money from the players each month .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Don't blame the players blame the game .

The game has poorly designed end game where you are required to run the same dungeon over and over countless times every week inorder to cap tomes 300 a week.

After a week it resets and you have to do the samething over again .

Now if they removed the cap , people would farm tomes till they got the gear they want within a week .

Then they would have nothing to do at all apart from craft / lvl new job etc .

So the cap on tomes is basically designed to get more money from the players each month .

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There's only one problem/flaw in your argument:

The feeling that someone is forced to cap myth every week as fast as possible, without fail, is a problem with the player, not with the game.

Learn to let go, and enjoy the game on its own terms. I never understood the mentality that a person should be actively TRYING to burn through content as fast as humanly possible. This behavior, not the game design, is what creates the toxic environment, and it's a DIRECT result of players who have emotional or psychological problems and aren't adapting well to having deadlines or limits on their playtime.

So yeah, it's the players, not the game.

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Originally Posted by LobsterBisque

I miss kicking the loldrg from the party because a warrior is LFP

I miss trash talking DDs because they don't have a SH/Haub

I miss losing claims to RMT bots

I miss going entire nights without getting an exp party

I miss having to level certain jobs to progress (CoP) because some jobs weren't viable.

I miss SE showing class balance by overnerfing (rng) or overbuffing (2-handers)

I miss having to solo on BLM after ToAU came out because no one would invite one.

I miss barrens chat in Jeuno...oh wait we still have that!

I miss parties not being formed because there was no rdm or brd.

I miss it taking 30-45 minutes to get ppl together to do anything, "hang on I need to go to my MH"

I mean tbh I loved the game but I don't have rose-colored hypno-goggles like some ppl

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This is excellent. I forgot about some of these. Gave me a good giggle. Thx :-)

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Originally Posted by Orsnoire

There's only one problem/flaw in your argument:

The feeling that someone is forced to cap myth every week as fast as possible, without fail, is a problem with the player, not with the game.

Learn to let go, and enjoy the game on its own terms. I never understood the mentality that a person should be actively TRYING to burn through content as fast as humanly possible. This behavior, not the game design, is what creates the toxic environment, and it's a DIRECT result of players who have emotional or psychological problems and aren't adapting well to having deadlines or limits on their playtime.

So yeah, it's the players, not the game.

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If you fall behind in gear you get punished by the players who are not behind .

Most players will take a geared player over a non geared player any day .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

If you fall behind in gear you get punished by the players who are not behind .

Most players will take a geared player over a non geared player any day .

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You don't really need to go at warp speed to cap 300 myths a week, though. I'll casually run a dungeon or two a day while doing whatever I feel like and still have no problem capping out.

If you queue for Titan often you will realize just how bad ffxiv is compared to ffxi.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Everything you just said

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Nailed it. Anyone who really "enjoyed" that game has some stockholm syndrome/masochist issues. I was upset at how long it took me to quit that game (middle of Aht Urghan period).

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Originally Posted by Alyko

/thread.

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We can all go home now, this person wins.

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Originally Posted by Cailae

If you really wanted to see toxic, you needed to be at the competitive end of content, particularly endgame. People organizing Dynamis shells and splitting with millions of gil worth of currency, LS leaders raiding banks, having to have an extra party at fafhoggs spawn to deal with repeated mpk attempts with darters if you got claim, rampant bot use, rival shells trying to steal your pop any way they could... It was at least as disgusting as anything i have seen in this game, and often moreso. One thing that will always stick with me and the reason why I will always scoff at anyone saying that FFXIs community was so much better; my LS was in the process of killing Fafnir, while a rival LS taunted us and were trying to steal claim. my LS leader said something along the lines you guys might want to watch it we already called a GM, and a member of the other LS said he might want to watch as he skull-****ed his mother.

This community is no better, and certainly no worse.

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The thing with land kings and other HNM is that while it certainly was competitive and short-tempered, it also only affected a couple of dozen players per server. The vast, vast majority of players never even went into Dragon's Aery.

As for endgame, the linkshells on each server would actually set up rotas for when each would go into Dynamis - Xarc or Dynamis - Beau. Can you even imagine that kind of gentleman's agreement in XIV?

Internal linkshell dramas like bank raiding or drop favouritism isn't in my opinion a community issue, it was an LS issue. It didn't affect anyone outside the LS and there advice then was simply 'find a linkshell with decent leaders'.

In XIV I've seen tanks shout at healers/DPS to 'Die. Just go outside and suck on a tailpipe. Seriously', the players were rarely even underperforming. You know what you would get if you underperfomed in a levelling party in XI? Some advice, maybe some free food. If you still didn't learn, that person might put you at the bottom of their personal invite list if they saw you seeking again. Oh, the horror.

See also: Tanks/Healers withdrawing from DF looking for in progress groups that are past the demon wall. Personal insults if you can't manage a speed run. Mercshells sabotaging DF Titans to drum up business. People dropping from Ifrit because no PLDs/SMNs/BLMs etc. Ilevel 90 requirements for entry endgame raids. People AFK'ing CM runs. New players being stuck for days at Westwind/NM primals because no-one will stop to help them.

The elitist part of XI affected only a tiny percentage of the community, who were all more or less equally to blame (they gave as good as they got). The toxic community in XIV ARR assaults you as soon as you log in until you've gritted your teeth through your Coil/myth for that week and logged out.

Good post Aegis. FFXIV is so bad that Yoshi is offering incentives to be friendly to each other. (Vote for your most helpful/friendly person)

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Originally Posted by Aegis

The thing with land kings and other HNM is that while it certainly was competitive and short-tempered, it also only affected a couple of dozen players per server. The vast, vast majority of players never even went into Dragon's Aery.

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Not all servers are alike.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

As for endgame, the linkshells on each server would actually set up rotas for when each would go into Dynamis - Xarc or Dynamis - Beau. Can you even imagine that kind of gentleman's agreement in XIV?

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The community was forced to do this on their own because of SE lack of creating separate servers for Dynamis. I don't see the point you're trying make here because most of the time if you can't do the Dynamis run you want to do you either do something else or the event is canceled.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Internal linkshell dramas like bank raiding or drop favouritism isn't in my opinion a community issue, it was an LS issue. It didn't affect anyone outside the LS and there advice then was simply 'find a linkshell with decent leaders'.

In XIV I've seen tanks shout at healers/DPS to 'Die. Just go outside and suck on a tailpipe. Seriously', the players were rarely even underperforming. You know what you would get if you underperfomed in a levelling party in XI? Some advice, maybe some free food. If you still didn't learn, that person might put you at the bottom of their personal invite list if they saw you seeking again. Oh, the horror.

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In FFXI there is a lot of "JP only PT", a race to get the best exp/merit camping spot, no one wanted PLD, DRG, BLM, or PUP. Not mention everyone and their mommy wanted a BRD and RDM in the PT or else no PT. I guess its the same crap but different flavor?

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Originally Posted by Aegis

See also: Tanks/Healers withdrawing from DF looking for in progress groups that are past the demon wall. Personal insults if you can't manage a speed run. Mercshells sabotaging DF Titans to drum up business. People dropping from Ifrit because no PLDs/SMNs/BLMs etc. Ilevel 90 requirements for entry endgame raids. People AFK'ing CM runs. New players being stuck for days at Westwind/NM primals because no-one will stop to help them.

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The devs are aware of this and are working on ways to counter these malicious acts.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

The elitist part of XI affected only a tiny percentage of the community, who were all more or less equally to blame (they gave as good as they got). The toxic community in XIV ARR assaults you as soon as you log in until you've gritted your teeth through your Coil/myth for that week and logged out.

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The elitist part of XI affected all the end game content in the game because it is the only thing to do in that game besides story missions, and leveling up.

What I'm trying to point out here is that FFXI is not a holy grail as to what some people are trying to make others believe. It has a lot of faults, and it had a long time to adapt to the changing times.

I miss my entire life is a small square box on the bottom right corner.
I miss reading combat log to cast -na spell before ppl get complaining.
I miss 60 macros on my shortcut for -na/-bar/cure spell and increase to 80 after /SCH.
I miss the moment of joy for the first time I heard the music of engaged battle when FFXI 1st add this.
I miss selling stacks of Colibri Beak after EXP/Merit Party @ Bhaflau Thickets.

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Originally Posted by LobsterBisque

I miss going entire nights without getting an exp party
I miss having to solo on BLM after ToAU came out because no one would invite one.
I miss parties not being formed because there was no rdm or brd.
I miss it taking 30-45 minutes to get ppl together to do anything, "hang on I need to go to my MH"

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You forgot no one want PLD in a merit party.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Couple of dozens? I guess you never been to Bismarck.

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No, Ifrit server.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The community was forced to do this on their own because of SE lack of creating separate servers for Dynamis. I don't see the point you're trying make here because most of the time if you can't do the Dynamis run you want to do you either do something else or the event is canceled.

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That they could have been competitive and screwed each other over, but instead they worked out an equitable system between themselves so that everyone got a turn at a congested event. That's an example of an excellent, functioning community, was my point.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

In FFXI there is a lot of "JP only PT", a race to get the best exp/merit camping spot, no one wanted PLD, DRG, BLM, or PUP. Not mention everyone and their mommy wanted a BRD and RDM in the PT or else no PT. I guess its the same crap but different flavor?

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Well, JP/En only or whatever exists even more in this game. Not even did they split up the servers, they also gave people the option to choose never to play with JP/EN/DE/FR through the Duty Finder options. As far as camp compeition went; it was very heavily frowned on to camp over other parties so people found alternate camps. Remember sending people to scout Bhaflau (or was it Wajaom?) to see if any of the Colibri parties were clear? Or the Puk/Mam/Dragon camp? If they weren't clear, people didn't go.

Party composition favouritism is an area I kind of agree with you on, having said that, my first job was DRK, followed by THF and BLU none of which were FOTM in the entire time I was playing and I kept up with my friends just fine. Probably because (perhaps I flatter myself here) I built up a reputation as a solid party member, always using food, keeping gear up to date etc. Being able to build up a reputation as competent was one of the benefits of having a functioning community.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The devs are aware of this and are working on ways to counter these malicious acts.

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Which will be great if/when it ever happens. However, you are relying on the devs to step in and sort out squabbles on an ad-hoc basis because the design of the game doesn't discourage these behaviours and players currently feel unaccountable for their actions to the wider community.

I am curious though; how do you think the devs will sort people dropping from Ifrit because there's no BLM/SMN in pt?

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Originally Posted by Andrien

The elitist part of XI affected all the end game content in the game because it is the only thing to do in that game besides story missions, and leveling up.

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I certainly never saw it in 4 years of endgame in Sky/Sea/Ein/Nyzul/Dyna/Salvage. In fact, the memory that stays with me the most strongly were times when players who willingly gave up lots on gear they needed to help gear the less well-geared members out in dynamis. And a THF not lotting on Homam pants because they were more useful to the PLD even though the Thief had lotting priority. Even in Sky there was a spirit of friendly competition, /cheering on other linkshells when they got claim before you (while preparing to take claim if they wiped).

I remember when camping Charybdis (after getting ToD from a competitor), losing claim to a NIN+BRD duo, /cheering them as they fought, taking claim when they wiped after only knocking Charby down to 85%. Did they rez, come back and cuss me out as I killed Charby? No they /cheered as I fought too.

I remember the JP player who switched to 75 WHM after dunes exp party and got all of us our magicked skulls.

I remember the NA player who lent me a Bronze Bed to start the mog-house quests and taught me about the secret exit quests.

I remember the NA players who would donate hours of their time to help complete strangers through Prommies just to help them get tavnazia access.

I remember my linkshell helping me through Genkais, AF fights, attestation farming etc and me paying it forward to newer members of the shell.

Now I'm not saying my experience is any more or less typical than yours, but when someone tells me XI had a toxic community it absolutely jars with what I've seen. When someone tells me XI's community was the best they have ever experienced they almost always have stories similar to mine.

Late Edit: I just remembered another good community thing from XI which I know existed across servers: The BST code.

BST used to share a lot of camp sites near where parties used to exp (sometimes the same site even). The code was simply that you would put where you were and what you were fighting in your /seacom and whether you were amenable to grouping up. That way, when parties or other BSTs /sea the area (remember doing that so you didn't overcamp people? Good times) they knew whether or not the camp would be free and if they could party up with the BST if they were free. Overcamping was strictly verboten.

FFXIV combat mechanics with XI endgame, XIV graphics, remove cross-server duty finder and keep it server specific. XI's gear/stat system with XIV's materia and the rest as it is already, that would be my ideal game. Unfortunately it might as well be a different game so it will never happen, I just hope they look to XI when it comes to endgame, what we have now has gotten stale incredibly quick even for a new game.

Regardless of what anyone says XI had one of the better communities. No MMO will ever have a "great" community because anonymity means anyone can be a tool and get away with it, so they are. However knowing that it's incredibly unlikely you'll ever see party members again in XIV, people don't care about reputation. If it meant being known as a tool and rarely invited to parties people would be more inclined to be polite, even if it was fake. I know I'd take fake polite people over the insufferable jerks you find in XIV any day.

While the game is partly to blame for the community being the way it is, a lot of it comes down to people knowing they can sit behind their computer screen, insult the world and get away with it. It's a very childish nature but a lot of people seem to be that way and nobody can argue it. I personally feel that a big community is not always a better community and that's why XI was good. Naturally the more people around you, the more chance there is you'll find a jerk so XI having a smaller and more tight-knit community made it less likely.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

In fact, the memory that stays with me the most strongly were times when players who willingly gave up lots on gear they needed to help gear the less well-geared members out in dynamis. And a THF not lotting on Homam pants because they were more useful to the PLD even though the Thief had lotting priority.

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Word. I gave up a Ridill. A fucking Ridill, to a WAR who was in my linkshell. In hindsight it was a bad move, though, because he quit the game a month later, haha.

What does not wanting certain jobs for exp parties have to do with bad community? It's not like they had anything against the player.

i don't think your community really went anywhere

i mean. people always talk shit about world of warcraft's community and how everyone in that game acts like a douchebag. but if you played the game on an rp server or something, the type of people you encounter would be very different compared to the types you would encounter on a highly populated pvp server.

point is, ffxi wasn't popular. ffxiv is popular. final fantasy is a popular franchise, a revamp of a game so bad that it had to be taken down and remade, but still retains a lot of the great things about oldschool MMOs that made them great while mixing in modern systems is a pretty damn good selling point for a game if you ask me.

the game attracted a lot of players from different games that have, i guess, a different "game culture".

your community didn't go anywhere. it's just being overshadowed.