Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

I agree with reivaxe; the Navi from Avatar most resemble the mural, and feel the most naturalistic IMO. The Hrothgar women in the mural look very graceful, with a slightly feline shaped face. The older Navi women from Avatar, like the elder shaman, look like that.

Midlander female - teenage/early 20s vanilla cute
Highlander female - slightly older, slightly more mature, mid-late 20s vanilla beauty.
Lalafell female - little people cute
Miq'ote female - teenage anime girl cute flavor 1 (more vanilla leaning)
Au female - teenage anime girl cute flavor 2
Roegadyn female - older, little more rugged woman look, mid-late 20s, not very sexy or cute.
Viera female - elegant sexy rich girl, early to mid 20s

The Hrothgar woman mural/Navi look feels like it could slide into an older, graceful woman look, like late 20s/early 30s, maybe 40s.

https://i.imgur.com/9EwczUf.png?1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

Edit: Forgot to quote but you probably know who is being spoken to about this subject lol

Sure, however that still doesn't really fit the bill for an abomination to me, sure if something had a human body but a slug face I'd probably consider that an abomination, like I get that full on animal faces are generally what full on furries enjoy, i've certainly seen my fair share of fan art. But looking at the Bless/Eastern style cat people I certainly don't look at them and go Eugh wtf is that.. Guess this is something that would need me to be in the same mindset of a furry I guess?

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

---

Pretty much, yeah. Like I look at the male Varg and they're not really that appealing. They have the hands and feet that appeal to the furry in me, but the face... it's like they started with a human face, threw on a cat/lion nose and ears and then called it a day. It's uncanny valley and I do not like it.
Female Varg face is just FFXI's Mithra.

So is this the new trend? Post blue people on here? Well, here's the blue cat the mural slapped into the game. This is female Hrothgar, good night! xp :
https://64.media.tumblr.com/7cd67c30...l2o10_1280.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Feel like everyone interested in the topic or hopeful of playing them someday should actively be looking for examples of what they could look like based on what we know.

so I don't think anyone who likes how FF14 looks should worry.

---

Their hope is judged just from the mural alone. Further examples are just making that outcome look even worse towards people that still don't like it in the first place. We seen the mural, we see that its stark contrast with male Hrothgar yet some or many were hopeful for something "new".
And reactions, especially in my furry circles see it including examples. As either mildly uncomfortable(bigger "beastly" male>slimmer "more human" women) or just irritating in regards to business practices and obvious engine limitations the Devs won't shut up about. Now? I found the cultural media studies on the why for fantasy race designs to be more fascinating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

---

*plays a tune*
Its devisive which is ironic since Hrothgar was a lion in black sheeps clothing insulted for not being the male viera or being the four horselions of the apocalypses for the expansion, "they brought furries into FFXIV!!!". However, almost 2 years can adapt a persons opinion. And with how the Devs tip toed in not firmly confirming or denying a chance for the opposite genders to possibly appear they inherently gave an excuse for the forums/reddit to theorycraft.
Now. People praise Hrothgar despite its flaws for being the "better Roegadyn". Using its base model to change the mesh and textures. Yet the race has actually given more spotlight for Roebros in LGBT circles. Even Viera got some props for having higher quality textures and not so girly default emotes. The ideas for opposite genders were off to the races, male viera concept arts already known since heavensward so people focused on Hrothgar.

One section, saw that Hrothgar was a big, strong and hearty race. Focusing on their lore as misunderstood people for their imposing faces as they struggled to speak their languages. While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land.
Add onto the fact Hrothgar was an improvement off a pre existing unpopular race, Improving with a opposite gender of said pre existing unpopular race seemed legit possible. Female Hrothgar were also respected as the queens, charging their armies onto the battlefield against the Alag. To many, they sound like big, strong and hearty women. Big, curvy and having the same if not tweaked heads of the males.

Section two. Most know majority of the females were rigged and meshed off the female midlander body. For a way to cut corners, they decided to to use the very same body for Elezen and Female Roegadyn. Creating a division of players that see the imperfections of textures and proportions on them instead of making a unique rig (seriously, this game only 50gb, ESO is almost on the verge of doubling it. More textures or another model for races is not going to fill up peoples hard drives)
And when the devs first unique race was made for FFXIV. The females were using the same midlander body. Shadowbringers comes along, Viera uses it again while male Hrothgar uses the unique Roe one. So by analyzing repetition. They assume the female would be the same. Bozja art being slim but with no unique head like the males.

I rooted for the former since I was excited for Hrothgar and not interested in female viera. Especially cringing over the coincidental PR take of releasing a beastly male race alongside a slim human looking female race as ways to "compliment" the player experience. But I didn't think they could do it twice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Female Varg face is just FFXI's Mithra.

---

Don't forget that Galka's are just as hairy/blockhead facewise to Male Varg minus the colored peach fuzz on their cheeks.

How dare you. Galka are adorable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadowshinra

But looking at the Bless/Eastern style cat people I certainly don't look at them and go Eugh wtf is that.. Guess this is something that would need me to be in the same mindset of a furry I guess?

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

---

It's just that poster's hyperbole, it's got nothing to do with being furry or not. Like, someone may wish they were more animal in the face but there's nothing off putting or "wrong" with it that you would only see if you like furrys. Bashing the Varg as "just human heads on a beastly body" and praising Khajiit for being ... photo realistic cat heads stapled onto realistic reg smuck bodies is just strange. Most furries want a marriage of the 2 to varying degrees that differ between person to person, to see animal and human features in the body and face. (It's fairly common for me to find Eastern furry art where the character has paw jellies even if they lack the full on animal feet).

Breaks my heart that EQN didn't come out, this is a proper example of what a cat man could be.
https://i.imgur.com/WlcNPdH.png

At the end of the day furries just like anthros, the degree to with one prefers their flavor of it is up to them. There's nothing inherently wrong with Varg. It's like how I feel vanilla Khajiit are unnerving AF and don't like em yet I have nothing but love for every style of furry art and MMOs like WoW and Second Life furries.


As for the body ... idk.
Reading through like 1 person wants them to be JACKED and as swoll or swoller than the males (they prob just memeing though) and a few femroe want them to just be Femroe with animal heads ( I was a Femroe when HW was revealed and I wanted Draggo girls to be Dragon Femroe if the devs wanted to do Dragons over Viera so I understand the desire).

Most people seem to either quietly accept this - vvv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lihtleita

https://pasteboard.co/JJe4ZEq.png
some notes on hrothgals v femroe
slimmer, shorter (even more so since the mural seems to cut off the femroe at the ankles, but hrothgar has her feet), with prominent cat ears compared to the males
with this scientific analysis i can therefore conclude that they will be taller, bald miqote.

---

Or completely ignore this single bit of official art of them in favor oh pushing their own desires on them.

Me, I just want them to be attractive cause that's what the dudes are and I want people to play them unlike what happened to Femroe ... so I'm loving the art that shows them having a slim, feminine hour-glass figure.

I'm starting to feel like this is becoming more of a "Beast vs Furry" thing the more replies I see.
Like, some people seem to be under the impression that male Hrothgar are a beast race with a capital "GRRRRR!!" and I'm like naah ... they aint Charr, they a furry race. They're sexy af and the females should be to ... because everything in this game is either hot/ cute or pretty/ handsome. So it's kinda strange seeing some people want them to be "beast" so that they're not "waifus" as if you can't make a cute or sexy anthro head. And couple that with the desire for a Femroe bod and non-waifu head or a swoll AF bod and yeah ... seems like some people just want something not even most furry fans would enjoy.

Ever since I did Bozja I've been far more interested in picking apart this art as you can tell (Changed it to Na'vi cause people seem to get hung up on the bald Varg. Plus it's a good reminder that cat features on a mostly human face isn't something that started with "Cats")
https://i.imgur.com/g17HYCu.png
https://i.imgur.com/EP3745O.png

As for body types I'd like ... fan art from other games time!
https://i.imgur.com/DrrjMwT.jpeg

I thought it would be really fun if they were feminine and flat but pear shaped. Interesting shape that no non-lala has. But IDC, they could be slightly taller 1-step-more-furry miqote or lovely lions like this ..


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjJy_HMX...jpg&name=large

Tall, Short ... idc.
I'd take em so long as they're as attractive as the dudes.

Edit-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

So is this the new trend? Post blue people on here? Well, here's the blue cat the mural slapped into the game. This is female Hrothgar, good night!

---

I mean, that gif of Gumball's mother also looks like the art given to us so that's cool. (forgot about that show)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

Their hope is judged just from the mural alone. Further examples are just making that outcome look even worse towards people that still don't like it in the first place. We seen the mural, we see that its stark contrast with male Hrothgar yet some or many were hopeful for something "new".
And reactions, especially in my furry circles see it including examples. As either mildly uncomfortable(bigger "beastly" male>slimmer "more human" women) or just irritating in regards to business practices and obvious engine limitations the Devs won't shut up about. Now? I found the cultural media studies on the why for fantasy race designs to be more fascinating.

---

If you're talking about my examples I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just know not everyone is as good at visualization as I am so I'm trying to help with visual aids. Which ever way people want to take it they can, but the notion I remember floating around not too long ago that the art isn't detailed enough is just not so. Plus I got tired of trying to explain concepts like exaggerating features to better express emotions (seeing as it's a principle of animation that may be hard to grasp if just tossed out there).

As for my circles, the Femroe are pouting ... but for the longest people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/5b...48e30cdd53.jpg
as their "Yes! THIS! Give me my Hrothgar QUEEN SE!!!" (Looks a lot like the art to ... I should add that in the future).

Outside of that? I just sip tea and wonder things. To me this was never going to be the time were they try to subvert expectations in gender, Femroe as is are so rarely played for such a clear reason that there was no way they would try to make a Furry Female unappealing to the masses by doubling down on the Femroe features that make them unwanted by who don't play Femroe. Hrothgar males are attractive, so they would try to make the females attractive to.

To me it's like "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Draggos were not a fluke, no amount of people sighing over the differences means anything because they're extremely popular and the people who play them enjoy them enough as is so it doesn't matter that HW me was annoyed that the girls weren't Femroe with horns. Not 1 female in this game has the option to look as hard or monstrous or mature as their male counter-parts faces and if Viera male are ever added to the game I'm sure they will have 1 older/ harder/ rugged looking face as that is how they do things for all males. That art has a Femroe that has every key feature shared by the 4 Femroe faces, logic would say that the Female Hrothgar in game (if they ever come) would have 4 versions of the face in that art.

It's fascinating to me that people ignore all this, but I've been low-key trying to temper expectations since SHB release cause none of the math for what people say they "should be" adds up in practice. Like ... we're all playing the same game where it's actually hard to make an "ugly" female unless you try to pick clashing colors. A game where with 2 mins of effort in CC you can have a waifu no matter which female you pick. A game where instead of being off-putting brutes/ savages the furry dudes are just straight up sexy. It shouldn't be shocking that they seem to be going this way with Female Hrothgar in a JPN made game.

I truly hope we get to see them someday. :/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

The ideas for opposite genders were off to the races, male viera concept arts already known since heavensward so people focused on Hrothgar.

---

Imma have to stop you right there. Maybe you're talking about some other site you're on but here? The Viera thread is MANY times longer than this because of endless bickering over what they would look like. I remember this stuff spilled over to Reddit once, where someone came there trying to recruit players into their Viera Male war. There were 3 main factions it seemed, those that wanted tall and strong build, those who wanted tall and slim handsome build and ... those who wanted them to be the height of and look like Children (maybe a 4th that just wanted them Male Miqote size? IDK). That person was laughed off of reddit because most people don't care and were getting annoyed with the bun fans whining about it everywhere but HERE? Nope, it didn't end there.

The war raged on until the great YP parted the clouds and whispered a sweet yet firm statement. That was ... "NO, we're not making effin children or child looking characters playable, full stop". That knocked out a major faction but the war still boiled between the others for many months. I've stopped checking on it so IDK which side won.

This thread though? Everyone assumed "They gonna look like Ronso cause they Ronso (they're not really ronso..)/ They gonna look like Cat headed Femroe cause of rigs (that's not how that works ..)" and no one but me and a few other really questioned the status quo thought on the matter as everyone kinda agreed ... and "Femroe with animal head" don't get that blood pumping for most given the tiny amount who play them ... and as such the thread gets far less fan art than Viera. That's why this has been a much more civil thread, everyone just points at Ronso and the convo stops.

This thread saw it's first big spike in forever with Bozja art talk which is around the time you came. At this point it seems everyone's in the process of coming to terms with it or ignoring it (which is strange AF to me. I'm sure Viera players would be gushing if they saw art depicting brand new hair styles and the Viera Males would be beside themselves to see in game art of their bun bois ... seeing as concept art is not final. It would be a ray of hope that they may actually come. Here, it's like I gotta keep reminding people it's a thing maybe we should look at. Like, I find the fact that they're bald to be a sign that they simply don't have manes and may actually have reg hair or "wigs")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land.

---

No, they don't. That's a leap. The males outnumber the females by a ton so if the dudes look scary people they will struggle to get along. Plus the females are rarely even seen cause of their numbers.

When I used female khajiit as example I didn't mean as in, literally a khajiit because I also agree that ESO is rather dull and stuck in a strictly "realistic" medieval fantasy aesthetic, but it's closer in concept than say, WoW, which has a considerably more cartoony artstyle, or Bless where they're human women that happen to have fur on their face.

Hrothgar men are furries, they can't, or rather shouldn't, back out and try and making the women more humanoid just to make them more conventionally appealing, considering the race itself not being conventional was the whole point of them being added in the first place. At the same time, I don't think anyone asking them to be beastly is asking for a "female Charr", which would be impossible for the game's rig anyways, just to be on par with the males.

Anyways, as I said before, as long as they actually look feline and not just taller Miqo'te, I don't mind.

Also, semi unrelated: I personally don't play femroe because while I do like their overall aesthetics, they...didn't really tried with their emotes and movements, it just feels like a Midlander who got hit by puberty too hard, unlike Viera who are stoic yet classy women (and are ironically treated as "too masculine" for it, guess no one's ever happy.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

Also, semi unrelated: I personally don't play femroe because while I do like their overall aesthetics, they...didn't really tried with their emotes and movements, it just feels like a Midlander who got hit by puberty too hard, unlike Viera who are stoic yet classy women (and are ironically treated as "too masculine" for it, guess no one's ever happy.)

---

If someone thinks viera emotes are masculine, they have no clue what they are talking about, in my opinion. I think many also think so because of their height. A lot of people are just used to their tiny au ra, and miqo'te. It's that whole tall argument again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

When I used female khajiit as example I didn't mean as in, literally a khajiit because I also agree that ESO is rather dull and stuck in a strictly "realistic" medieval fantasy aesthetic, but it's closer in concept than say, WoW, which has a considerably more cartoony artstyle, or Bless where they're human women that happen to have fur on their face.

---

I know we're not exactly swimming in games that let people play or CC a proper furry but this is why I avoid using western MMOs, the aesthetics are nothing close to FF14 and when you hear "Khajiit" you get a very clear mental picture.

Quote:

---

Hrothgar men are furries, they can't, or rather shouldn't, back out and try and making the women more humanoid just to make them more conventionally appealing, considering the race itself not being conventional was the whole point of them being added in the first place. At the same time, I don't think anyone asking them to be beastly is asking for a "female Charr", which would be impossible for the game's rig anyways, just to be on par with the males.

---

I've seen "make them look just like the men but slimmer/ but with boobs/ make them just as manly so that they're like the charr in gender differences!" a number of times from people which adds to my "Beast vs Furry" thoughts.

As for what they should or shouldn't do I again point to their record. Draggos were not just an attempt at a reptile race but at the time ... they were designed to be (you guessed it!) the most beastly race. And that they were, they had strange eye ish that no one had, they're covered in scale patchs, they had these crazy big horns and darkened out eyes and imposing presence and were the 2nd tallest!
Welp, the men were. They striped away ever bit of that imposing nature from the females, they were made 2nd smallest female with pretty/ elegant horns and big bright eyes and dainty damsel animations. On paper they were still more "beastly" than any other female because of the scales and eye ish but ... yeah ... they decided to make them modeled after Jpop Idols at some point in development for "reasons" I can only assume to be "this will please more people in our game" and regardless of if they were right or not the race is hella popular and the females are more popular than the dudes. They have always been more willing to push the extremes with males and pull alll the way back on females to keep the pretty, be it dragos or Highlander eyebrows or Femroe not being the size and shape of a fridge with looong arms.

Just look at the Hrothgar manes, they were willing to pull that crap with the males. Not 1 bone in my body thinks they would take away hair from females even if they only give em a few hair styles like Viera.

Quote:

---

Anyways, as I said before, as long as they actually look feline and not just taller Miqo'te, I don't mind.

---

Cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

I know we're not exactly swimming in games that let people play or CC a proper furry but this is why I avoid using western MMOs, the aesthetics are nothing close to FF14 and when you hear "Khajiit" you get a very clear mental picture.

---

Khajiit used to be cat girls/cat boys, then they switched to the more beast-like 'Suthay-raht' in Morrowind, and kept that type since.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20120707171810

They still exist as one of the many breeds of khajiit in the lore, technically. Just can't play as them anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

As for what they should or shouldn't do I again point to their record. Draggos were not just an attempt at a reptile race but at the time ... they were designed to be (you guessed it!) the most beastly race. And that they were, they had strange eye ish that no one had, they're covered in scale patchs, they had these crazy big horns and darkened out eyes and imposing presence and were the 2nd tallest!

---

I wonder if they just didn't want to deal with custom heads and their limitations at the time. Unlike with hrothgar in ShB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Not 1 bone in my body thinks they would take away hair from females even if they only give em a few hair styles like Viera.

---

I honestly don't see why they couldn't do just that.

There are obviously differences between the genders of other races, but no other race has such a massive discrepancy in terms of customization options between genders as female Hrothgar being able to freely change their hair would be compared to the men. Highlander brows and Femroe build differences aren't even in the same ballpark.

They could still make them "prettier" or whatever they deem to be more appealing and different looking from the males while working with the same limitations they have.

I don't necessarily think they should as I don't think it was a good idea even for male Hrothgar, but there's no reason the females couldn't work much the same way and still appeal to their niche.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

As for body types I'd like ... fan art from other games time!
https://i.imgur.com/DrrjMwT.jpeg

---

This is actually the type of face I'd like for female Hrothgar, and would fit in well alongside the males.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

If you're talking about my examples I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just know not everyone is as good at visualization as I am so I'm trying to help with visual aids. Plus I got tired of trying to explain concepts like exaggerating features to better express emotions (seeing as it's a principle of animation that may be hard to grasp if just tossed out there).

As for my circles, the Femroe are pouting ... but for the longest people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ...

To me it's like "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Draggos were not a fluke, no amount of people sighing over the differences means anything because they're extremely popular and the people who play them enjoy them enough as is so it doesn't matter that HW me was annoyed that the girls weren't Femroe with horns.

It's fascinating to me that people ignore all this, but I've been low-key trying to temper expectations since SHB release cause none of the math for what people say they "should be" adds up in practice.

I truly hope we get to see them someday. :/

---

If you're not trying to sway people to your opinion but wanted to take the easy route, towards people that inherently don't need your opinion then you just created a two sided echo vacuum.

The "webz"? Its not wrong to just say Discord, small discussion boards since you just used those previously to justify reasons to ignore or belittle the like system on these forums. That fanart which was posted from Reddit deviated from the fanart to practically ignoring it in discussing alternate ideas.

Nobody said Draggos were a fluke. They were a half and half wasted opportunity in deviating from the Status Quo. The survey wanted reptile race, not humans with low poly horns and skin fungus. The majority of players only gravitate to the females. They even used the miqote model with a different tail for Yugiri in the MAIN STORY(not some side quest) as a base point for the race so expectation was already well controlled besides the stark dimorphism, low poly horns and skin fungus that the community still complain about despite enjoying "some" aspects of the race. And that's the issue, why can't we get a race that majority of players enjoy ALL the aspects? This game strives for "attractive" but still gives a big handicap thanks to the engine. In a perfect world, textures would be higher and gear sets would actually scale with size/shape properly. Clans would be even more different than the disparity of Hyur/Highlander so people would have more choices for their true beauty they want to express.

Again, Femroe is and was a poor execution of using a midlander body.
They use male Roe body to make a big "attractive" lion male race.
Therefore, it was and is justified in assuming they could make an "attractive" opposite gender with the female roe body in mind, a blend of Thighlander/FemRoe. The "unappealing" nature of Femroe is poorly EXECUTED but we know its too late to change it now unless that "CC revamp" gives a double whammy or if FFXVI gives a new visual cleanup for these races*shrug*

In regards to marketing “Build something 100 people love, not something 1 million people kind of like.” which mirrors the mobile market to bring in Whales and the annoyed but passionate low player base of Hrothgar and Roe. And the practice in this game has been criticized in forum and out. The Devs gave a half winded stance and vague anecdotes on supporting the LGBT community (body positivity attractiveness for all genders. Tall, Small, Slim, Curvy, Fat, Bulky, etc.) and all it takes to squeeze the whoopie cushion is a mural of another slim design for a gender of a race the majority did not want or universally love but grew a dedicated fanbase of expressive gender positive players. Shows that unlocking gender specific dresses is all they're willing to go. Make a race a dedicated playerbase/community WANTS to play so they bond with it to the point of unintentionally extending their subscription like its a drug habit just so they can play in the world as that character. That is mostly what the Viera and Hrothgar players are at this point, despite their flaws they deliver a certain identity that only Final Fantasy can deliver and not some Bless examples like you stated. And the Vargs both have flat faces. So no animal head on female could look more disturbing than the dimorphism of Au Ra

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Imma have to stop you right there. Maybe you're talking about some other site you're on but here?

everyone just points at Ronso and the convo stops

This thread saw it's first big spike in forever with Bozja art talk which is around the time you came. At this point it seems everyone's in the process of coming to terms with it or ignoring it

---

You can come out of your rock now, the femboy viera episode became a meme at this point and now its shortstack manly bun dwarfs (kidding).

Is that how wondering to you works? To just stop a conversation by verbally pointing away from a discussion?...You mean stop, cringe and discuss something in the same ballpark. That's how a discussion evolves.

Coming to terms/ignoring female Hrothgar entirely is just another spit in the bucket. Let me share with you an olive branch. Props on the underappreciate EQN race designs, though the KittyDee lion and the one with a harp is mine and many others compromise since it would still be a big movement in showing female anthros can indeed be attractive with a animal head (I wish I could post a lion art from Tyroo but its adult due to consistency and "non binary" content is still sadly viewed as "too adult"). An alternative Section 3 would be that front of "well, at least give male hrothgars signature feature".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

No, they don't. That's a leap. The males outnumber the females by a ton so if the dudes look scary people they will struggle to get along. Plus the females are rarely even seen cause of their numbers.

---

By this logic, its just the males being harmed by...the equivalent idea of vocal inquisition for just the male faces alone. This will be broken anyway if we see a surge of people actually start playing female hrothgar that equalizes with or surpasses their male counterparts in player population.

You forgot to add more to the quote:
"While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land."

The race text in the CC if not changed would make this more concerning. But never did the bottom text specify just the males but carefully specify their faces.
"The Hrothgar’s imposing countenance – mitigated not at all by their sharp claws and still sharper fangs – incited panic amongst Eorzeans upon their arrival."
Are they going to add, SANS FEM HROTHGARS. Add another text about the females grand time locked in the closet with male viera? ->Or just not bother?<-

To mitigate as much player dissonance, its reasonable as a writer and artist to give the females a "beastly" face at the least to keep the bottom text consistent to both genders.

And previously you were also confused with with the phantasmal divide of "beastly/furry" when its the japanese who use two "beastly" terms (Kemono/Jujin). So now the discussion for your argument has moved from the wants of Beastly=hyper masculine/dangerous with animal features to just....animal features like a animal head. Remember Disney's Hunchback? That's the bare minimum of an abstract change in face or form to thematically justify fear towards someone's "odd but attractive" appearance. Au Ra was close but the game just...ignored their introduction compared to the admittedly juicy Horthgar lore we get in Bozja. The uncanniness that pulls you out of a series can start happening when its just....flat with face coloring supposed to be fur or evil/crazy person looking incredibly evil.

Ronso is just Khimari just like how Burmecian is just Freya (at least they have similar structures). It's getting old.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

If someone thinks viera emotes are masculine, they have no clue what they are talking about, in my opinion. I think many also think so because of their height. A lot of people are just used to their tiny au ra, and miqo'te. It's that whole tall argument again.

---

Its the sexist 4chan argument all over again "I don't wanna be in a world where women are bigger and better than me! Please be cute like this hug pillow!". Thinking just one miniscule difference of a woman being "strong" or "not girly/moe" is too masculine (or it can be just tomboyish, where the kink is "breaking down" that persons trait into "embracing" their true "biological" nature as a "woman") . Their emotes are still feminine but rather well controlled in a Victorian/primadonna sense which is still gender stereotypical but its different. Now if they didn't have that /toast

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Khajiit used to be cat girls/cat boys, then they switched to the more beast-like 'Suthay-raht' in Morrowind, and kept that type since. ..

I wonder if they just didn't want to deal with custom heads and their limitations at the time. Unlike with hrothgar in ShB.

---

I started with Skyrim so didn't even know the lore behind them, interesting.

And yeah, Draggos were basically as Beastly as they were willing to get before the showed us Hrothgar. Lots of their concept art showed them having actual ears and horns on top of their head in a way that would screw them over like Viera. They let go of the idea at some point likely because they knew what it would mean for the race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

I don't necessarily think they should as I don't think it was a good idea even for male Hrothgar, but there's no reason the females couldn't work much the same way and still appeal to their niche.

---

I think what you're doing here is trying to make a Tit for Tat reasoning where there is none.

Why do male Hrothgar have manes that they can not customize?
Cause YP wanted to go all out on the beast head theme and make them lions and lions have manes.

Why are female Hrothgar depicted as being bald?
Because female lions do not have manes.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWxyC8bX...jpg&name=large

It's as simple as that, they based Hrothgar on the legit single type of cat with big-n-obvious sexual dimorphism. Them being lions is the prefect logic to have sexual dimorphism unseen in other races. Females being bald is already an option the males don't have assuming females have any hair options at all. (I assume "WIGS!" because if they're legit just bald and flat faced as the art would suggest then ... there's no reason they couldn't have hats as there's nothing on their head.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

If you're not trying to sway people to your opinion but wanted to take the easy route, towards people that inherently don't need your opinion then you just created a two sided echo vacuum.

---

lmao, wut are you talking about?

People whining about the art ...
"It's not detailed enough to tell" I show examples of how the art is decently detailed as it has everything key to making a Femroe in it's depiction ... so it's worth looking at.
"Cats the movie! Miqote 2.0!" I show examples of things that look like the depicted art to help people visualize beyond such examples.

Given how someone literally posted an exaggerated cheetah to show why exaggeration isn't an important trait for making complex human facial expressions on animals I felt the need to start helping people visualize.

IDGAF if they like the concept though, I just can't be bothered to constantly break down the principles of animation and character design every time I simply point out something like "the relationship between Hrothgar's faces and their dramatic body emotes".

Quote:

---

The "webz"? Its not wrong to just say Discord, small discussion boards since you just used those previously to justify reasons to ignore or belittle the like system on these forums. That fanart which was posted from Reddit deviated from the fanart to practically ignoring it in discussing alternate ideas.

---

Wut are you talking about?
"people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ..."
I WAS talking reddit and twitter ya Goof, try to keep up.
I only refer to big social media sites that the devs would pay attention to and we know they pay attention to reddit. Even Google points to that fan art as the first hit for "female Hrothgar".

Quote:

---

Nobody said Draggos were a fluke. They were a half and half wasted opportunity in deviating from the Status Quo.

---

I say draggos aren't a fluke because people in here whining about them amounts to a hill of beans. If SE learned anything from it it's that they can do it and get away with it cause people who play them are happy with them and that's all that matters.

Quote:

---

Again, Femroe is and was a poor execution of using a midlander body.

---

Though I love em ... Femroe are a poor execution of a number of things :/

Quote:

---

They use male Roe body to make a big "attractive" lion male race.

---

IDK how the hell you play Hrothgar and put "attractive" in quotes like you're just humoring the idea.

Hrothgar are sexy af.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-Xw1r2V...jpg&name=large
(AND cute.)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_L73s-U...jpg&name=large

Quote:

---

In regards to marketing “Build something 100 people love, not something 1 million people kind of like.” ...

---

If you want to work for SE marketing and dev team then apply and tell them friendo, I'm not here to morally justify or def SE. I simply look at what they HAVE done, look at the information given and come up with theories about what they will do.

Quote:

---

Is that how wondering to you works? To just stop a conversation by verbally pointing away from a discussion?

---

Wondering is expressing curiosity. I'm not at all demanding anything look like anything but if you don't like me trying to put the puzzle to female Hrothgar together in here (a thread about Female Hrothgar) you can block me.

Quote:

---

Coming to terms/ignoring female Hrothgar entirely is just another spit in the bucket.

---

???

Quote:

---

Let me share with you an olive branch. Props on the underappreciate EQN race designs, though the KittyDee lion and the one with a harp is mine and many others compromise since it would still be a big movement in showing female anthros can indeed be attractive with a animal head

---

"Props"? I fking love anthros and MMOs. Much of my personal art style (when I drew far more) was anthro in nature and I keep a close eye on any MMO's. If w/e new MMO the EQ devs are working on (but wont talk about) is popping I'm there. I've been the only person I can remember in this thread suggesting for people to go out and find art of furry females from other sources to share and start a dialog. I've prob posted the most art of anyone in this thread before the recent "I'mma stop beating around the bush and say it the F word everyone's afraid of" decision where I just started tossing up any furry art that I like and looks good and is SFW.

To set the record straight, I have never advocated for Female Hrothgar to have flat faces.
Only ever advocated for them to be attractive because the dudes are hot AF and so should the females be firmly in the sexy or cute camp. I want a number of people to enjoy them. That being said, I'm not at all married to any 1 style of furry for them. Every context clue the devs hand us lead me to think that the art was exactly where they would go from the moment I saw Hrothgar males in the benchmark. Hell, thinking about how they took people gushing over buff lupin concept art to mean "Lets make ... CAT AGAIN!" Screamed to me that they wanted to make and excuse to make the faces flatter for females (which is harder to do with a wolf).

I don't care though as I like the eastern style to and know that this is a JPN company. I'm not going to throw a fit over them doing what they have shown the compacity to do time and time again.

Quote:

---

You forgot to add more to the quote:
"While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land."

The race text in the CC if not changed would make this more concerning. But never did the bottom text specify just the males but carefully specify their faces.
"The Hrothgar’s imposing countenance – mitigated not at all by their sharp claws and still sharper fangs – incited panic amongst Eorzeans upon their arrival."
Are they going to add, SANS FEM HROTHGARS. Add another text about the females grand time locked in the closet with male viera? ->Or just not bother?<-

---

"Hailing from the distant shores of Ilsabard, the Hrothgar are a burly people of leonine appearance—or the males at least. Females are staggeringly few among their population and are rarely glimpsed by the other races."
They outright say they don't know what the females look like.

"After the Hrothgar gained mastery over the common tongue fears allayed and, in time, they were welcome in all corners of the realm."
They are not currently in the "everyone's afraid of us" phase.

Just saying again that female Hrothgar should be given the same treatment as the males.

https://i.imgur.com/ijXWTaf.jpg

I'm not sure why people are assuming females might be flat-faced just based on the very stylised mural - to me it looks exactly how you would portray a catlike face in that minimal-detail art style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

I think what you're doing here is trying to make a Tit for Tat reasoning where there is none.

---

No. I don't think it would be particularly fair but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Why do male Hrothgar have manes that they can not customize?
Cause YP wanted to go all out on the beast head theme and make them lions and lions have manes.

Why are female Hrothgar depicted as being bald?
Because female lions do not have manes.

---

Calling them 'manes' is, to me, just a flavorful way for them to refer to their hair. It has very little to do with lions or actual manes as only 2 out of 8 actually look like lion manes.

Unless male lions actually have top knots, braids, ponytails and spikey mohawks in the wild and I've just not been paying attention.

There's zero reason the females couldn't follow the 4 unique faces with 2 hairstyles each approach beyond "well they're women so they need to be able to change their hair!".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

It's as simple as that, they based Hrothgar on the legit single type of cat with big-n-obvious sexual dimorphism. Them being lions is the prefect logic to have sexual dimorphism unseen in other races. Females being bald is already an option the males don't have assuming females have any hair options at all. (I assume "WIGS!" because if they're legit just bald and flat faced as the art would suggest then ... there's no reason they couldn't have hats as there's nothing on their head.)

---

That's ignoring the fact that Hrothgar also have a Coeurl-type face, lions are a influence but they're not just based on that and wouldn't need to strictly follow the same sexual dimorphism as them.

I just think you're putting way too much stock in the mural being the confirmation that that is 100% how they will look, it's true that it's all we have to go on now but it could have several reasons. It could be an artistic interpretation, an idealized version of how they were viewed, a caste-type system where only the lioness looking ones are chosen to be handmaids, or even as simple as SE not wanting to design several different and unique looking female Hrothgar for a mural in content a lot of people won't see in the years to come.

I personally don't think they will be indistinguishable from the men, but I think if they were to do them at all they would follow much the same system as the men and at least look like they belong to the same race. So unique, but attractive and possibly feminine beast looking faces with however many hairstyles each and no hats.

Hrothgar weren't designed with mass appeal in mind in the first place so there's no reason they need to waifu up the females to appeal to that niche, if anything I imagine it would detract from it if they end up looking like the Thundercats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

Just saying again that female Hrothgar should be given the same treatment as the males.

https://i.imgur.com/ijXWTaf.jpg

---

Amen to this post

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

I just think you're putting way too much stock in the mural being the confirmation that that is 100% how they will look, it's true that it's all we have to go on now but it could have several reasons. It could be an artistic interpretation, an idealized version of how they were viewed, a caste-type system where only the lioness looking ones are chosen to be handmaids, or even as simple as SE not wanting to design several different and unique looking female Hrothgar for a mural in content a lot of people won't see in the years to come.

---

Yeah, I think this is pretty much what it is. Just a general idea of what hrothgar would look like put in a simple, stylized format. A generic concept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

Unless male lions actually have top knots, braids, ponytails and spikey mohawks in the wild and I've just not been paying attention.

---

I don't think that's a fair argument against calling them manes in the first place. If they are essentially lion-like and their hair grows in the same way as a lion's mane but they style it instead of leaving it loose, does that make it not a mane?

Or to think about it in a different but real-world context, does a horse stop having a mane if it is plaited decoratively?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't think that's a fair argument against calling them manes in the first place. If they are essentially lion-like and their hair grows in the same way as a lion's mane but they style it instead of leaving it loose, does that make it not a mane?

Or to think about it in a different but real-world context, does a horse stop having a mane if it is plaited decoratively?

---

I'm not against calling them manes at all, I just think they call it a mane instead of hair or hairstyle as a flavourful way to emphasize their beast-like nature compared to humans.

I also don't think Hrothgar are styled completely after lions rather than big cats in general, with a dash of fantasy with the horned Ronso face and the coeurl face of course.

So a female Hrothgar wouldn't necessarily have to be bald because a lioness doesn't have a mane, they could give them very long hair and still call it a mane because like you mentioned, not only lions have manes.

There is such a thing as a Maned Lioness. Just it's a rare genetic mutation that makes a lioness from far away look like a male lion.
SE could do something similar, but of course make styles that are more female centric

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

There is such a thing as a Maned Lioness. Just it's a rare genetic mutation that makes a lioness from far away look like a male lion.
SE could do something similar, but of course make styles that are more female centric

---

Yes, they can do whatever they want with them really.

Dreads, braids, curls, long and straight or even a bald option, because they're Hrothgar and not actually lions and so they're not limited to what real life lions or other big cats (male or female) have or don't have.

Some Hrothgar faces and manes are obviously meant to evoke the image of a lion, others are something else entirely so it would frankly be bizarre for them to limit themselves to bald female Hrothgar with wigs of all things.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

Yes, they can do whatever they want with them really.

Dreads, braids, curls, long and straight or even a bald option, because they're Hrothgar and not actually lions and so they're not limited to what real life lions or other big cats (male or female) have or don't have.

Some Hrothgar faces and manes are obviously meant to evoke the image of a lion, others are something else entirely so it would frankly be bizarre for them to limit themselves to bald female Hrothgar with wigs of all things.

---

Yep. Otherwise I don't think this guy makes any sense..

https://i.imgur.com/yVuqyZ7.png

Personally I would rather see them stick to the lion-based design of, if not entirely bald (particularly since they have the weird not-really-furry design thing with distinct patches), then all short hairstyles on the women while men have the longer manes. It would be an interesting cultural thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yep. Otherwise I don't think this guy makes any sense..

---

He just looks like he's brushed his hair forwards instead of backwards as most of them do. Or are you talking about the fangs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

He just looks like he's brushed his hair forwards instead of backwards as most of them do. Or are you talking about the fangs?

---

It was a hastily put together joke image. I was agreeing with Yencat. There is no reason at all for SE to limit themselves, and make female hrothgar bald just because lionesses or whatever don't have manes in real life. This is a fantasy game, they can do whatever they want with them. Anyway, ronso females, have hair. While hrothgar isn't entirely based off Ronso, it still is closely related.

https://i.imgur.com/qpaTCZv.png
https://i.imgur.com/0zxxnDm.png

Frankly, so closely related I'd say they look just like the mosaic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Personally I would rather see them stick to the lion-based design of, if not entirely bald (particularly since they have the weird not-really-furry design thing with distinct patches), then all short hairstyles on the women while men have the longer manes. It would be an interesting cultural thing.

---

I think a 'bald' feline head would look very striking and should definitely be an option, but not forced across the board.

We'd end up with another male Highlander situation where the lore states "some choose to do X" but inexplicably everyone you meet of that race/gender adhere to this "choice".

Cultural standards and practices of races should be available as options but never forced. I don't RP myself but I'm sure some people's characters go to great lengths to get away from their culture, only to be forced back into it by character creation limitations based on that culture.

It's definitely interesting to have the choice, but just not very fun when it's forced upon players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

I think a 'bald' feline head would look very striking and should definitely be an option, but not forced across the board.

We'd end up with another male Highlander situation where the lore states "some choose to do X" but inexplicably everyone you meet of that race/gender adhere to this "choice".

Cultural standards and practices of races should be available as options but never forced. I don't RP myself but I'm sure some people's characters go to great lengths to get away from their culture, only to be forced back into it by character creation limitations based on that culture.

It's definitely interesting to have the choice, but just not very fun when it's forced upon players.

---

I think female hrotgar should get at least 2-3 long hairs assuming we dont get the general hairs everyone has. Being bald makes sense for them I guess, but forcing it is just removing options from the player

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yencat

I think a 'bald' feline head would look very striking and should definitely be an option, but not forced across the board.

We'd end up with another male Highlander situation where the lore states "some choose to do X" but inexplicably everyone you meet of that race/gender adhere to this "choice".

Cultural standards and practices of races should be available as options but never forced. I don't RP myself but I'm sure some people's characters go to great lengths to get away from their culture, only to be forced back into it by character creation limitations based on that culture.

It's definitely interesting to have the choice, but just not very fun when it's forced upon players.

---

Depends on the reasoning behind it, though. If it's more like "fur but on their head" like the contrast-colour patches that the males have, and actually can't grow long, then that's just what they're like. They might have other unique ways of decorating it instead.

So, physical limitation rather than cultural choice exactly, but leading to the topsy-turvey cultural perception of short hair as feminine and long hair as masculine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Depends on the reasoning behind it, though. If it's more like "fur but on their head" like the contrast-colour patches that the males have, and actually can't grow long, then that's just what they're like. They might have other unique ways of decorating it instead.

So, physical limitation rather than cultural choice exactly, but leading to the topsy-turvey cultural perception of short hair as feminine and long hair as masculine.

---

Absolutely, at the end of the day we wouldn't really know if a hypothetical female Hrothgar had short hair because it won't grow or because they choose to keep it short unless they specify.

But I think the end result would ultimately be the same, limiting player options for no real reason other than because "we've decided they're just like that".

And if there's anything players always want more of it's options to express themselves or their character, so unless they can actually come up with something a lot more amazing than fur patterns ended up being I don't think limiting the length of a race's hair is a particularly worthy cause just to do something different.

I'm not even really against them being only bald (I think that could actually look amazing, the artwork reivaxe posted of the Tabaxi with the lute is a great look face-wise) I just don't think they have to look like that because of parallels to real life animals.

But I'm also not really the target audience for male or female Hrothgar, so maybe people that would/do play them could speak on their preference for what to do about the hair.

I just like options for everyone.

I can imagine the wigs idea scenario
Devs: 'We half apologize for our implementation of hrothgar and viera. So these females, while unable to change haircuts like the males, making players hard earned hairstyles still useless. We decided to give em no hair and scatter rare, legendary wigs across the land in drops and recipes for you cat ladies to collect! While you still have to glamor them over, meaning you technically can't "equip" helmets and hair at once. We found this as a means to "compliment" the player experience~'

Wig mage runs!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnAverageAspie

I can imagine the wigs idea scenario
Devs: 'We half apologize for our implementation of hrothgar and viera. So these females, while unable to change haircuts like the males, making players hard earned hairstyles still useless. We decided to give em no hair and scatter rare, legendary wigs across the land in drops and recipes for you cat ladies to collect! While you still have to glamor them over, meaning you technically can't "equip" helmets and hair at once. We found this as a means to "compliment" the player experience~'

Wig mage runs!

---

lmao is it bad that I can actually see this being plausible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeylos

lmao is it bad that I can actually see this being plausible?

---

It's not plausible. SE wouldn't make wigs - which are full on hairstyles - that only hrothgar females could use. We have yet to see a single new actual hairstyle for viera. If they can't do tail bow ties, ear cutouts for miqo'te, etc. they aren't going to do anything unique to this extent for female hrothgar.

Before the argument, "well then everyone can use wigs", remember SE saying "unique head shape" it wouldn't work out. They could do it, they just won't do it. I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's not plausible. SE wouldn't make wigs - which are full on hairstyles - that only hrothgar females could use. We have yet to see a single new actual hairstyle for viera. If they can't do tail bow ties, ear cutouts for miqo'te, etc. they aren't going to do anything unique to this extent for female hrothgar.

Before the argument, "well then everyone can use wigs" - remember SE saying "unique head shape" it wouldn't work out.

---

lmao I know it was meant to be sarcastic.

Anyways, Ive seen the encounter w the queen in youtube and I gotta say Im dissapointed, but it does give me a little amoutn of hope they pulled something similar with female miqote and Yugiri

ok.. i'm the outcast here but i kind of like that hrothgar cant have the regular hairstyles..
however i think that the hairstyle pages should add extras to their default looks.
So if we get a long hairstyle on the regular races male hrothgar could get long mane attachements or long beards.
if we get braids hrothgar could get a braid that comes on to their hairstyle. etc

however they do need more face options for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artypartytime

ok.. i'm the outcast here but i kind of like that hrothgar cant have the regular hairstyles..
however i think that the hairstyle pages should add extras to their default looks.
So if we get a long hairstyle on the regular races male hrothgar could get long mane attachements or long beards.
if we get braids hrothgar could get a braid that comes on to their hairstyle. etc

however they do need more face options for sure.

---

I think it isnt necessarily bad that hairs are race specfiic, but imo being able to at least choose it is a must, Im personally against them being tied to face tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeylos

I think it isnt necessarily bad that hairs are race specfiic, but imo being able to at least choose it is a must, Im personally against them being tied to face tbh

---

Yes, It's not even hair being racial exclusive. The biggest problem with hrothgar, is that they don't actually have the option to change hair. They have to use a fantasia, and even so there is only 1 alternative style per face. It's extreme limiting. As for viera, they have the option of changing their hair and have racial unique styles - except SE hasn't actually added any new styles for them, or, for that matter, new faces for hrothgar with new hairs to choose from. All the while continuously releasing new hairs for every other race in the game. There is a large amount of purchased hairstyles that neither female viera or male hrothgar can use, with no racially unique hairstyle alternatives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yes, It's not even hair being racial exclusive. The biggest problem with hrothgar, is that they don't actually have the option to change hair. They have to use a fantasia, and even so there is only 1 alternative style per face. It's extreme limiting. As for viera, they have the option of changing their hair and have racial unique styles - except SE hasn't actually added any new styles for them, or, for that matter, new faces for hrothgar with new hairs to choose from. All the while continuously releasing new hairs for every other race in the game. There is a large amount of purchased hairstyles that neither female viera or male hrothgar can use, with no racially unique hairstyle alternatives.

---

This is a pretty unpopular opinion but I like that female viera have their special hairstyles (Id actually like hairstyles to be more race-specific overall) but its completely unacceptable they dont have at least acces to the paid hairs and hats tbh, at least add more race specific ones, Fran's hair would be nice for example

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

It's not plausible. SE wouldn't make wigs - which are full on hairstyles - that only hrothgar females could use. We have yet to see a single new actual hairstyle for viera. If they can't do tail bow ties, ear cutouts for miqo'te, etc. they aren't going to do anything unique to this extent for female hrothgar.

Before the argument, "well then everyone can use wigs", remember SE saying "unique head shape" it wouldn't work out. They could do it, they just won't do it. I think.

---

Seems like my "wigs" term was taking outta context lmao!

No, I don't think it would be an item. Looking at Hrothgar males you have to ask yourself "whats stopping them from changing hair styles like Viera?".
When you look at mods that slap different manes on different heads you see that each head is designed to have different ear shapes and sizes as well as differences in foreheads. Some hair styles only clip a lil and some have far more severe clipping issues with that area of the head cause they were designed to suit their proper head. All 4 of the male heads are unique animal like heads and had their manes designed around their head exclusively. This is likely the reason it's a CC option and considered "manes" instead of hair, it's just a thing that's apart of their head.

Given the art work making the females look to have flatter, bald, more human leaning faces/ heads and the fact that the race is inspired by an animal with clear sexual-dimorphism leads me to think that limitations of the males manes prob wouldn't be reflected in females. Even more so when you realize it's the most controversial and scrutinized decision they made with the new races in ShB. Player-base can't really cry for them to "fix" the male's hair yet also desire they repeat the decision for any possible females when all they would have to do is create the females in a way where their heads/ hair styles aren't too unique to be shared between each other.

So you can call it "wigs" or hair.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reivaxe

Seems like my "wigs" term was taking outta context lmao!

No, I don't think it would be an item. Looking at Hrothgar males you have to ask yourself "whats stopping them from changing hair styles like Viera?".
When you look at mods that slap different manes on different heads you see that each head is designed to have different ear shapes and sizes as well as differences in foreheads. Some hair styles only clip a lil and some have far more severe clipping issues with that area of the head cause they were designed to suit their proper head. All 4 of the male heads are unique animal like heads and had their manes designed around their head exclusively. This is likely the reason it's a CC option and considered "manes" instead of hair, it's just a thing that's apart of their head.

Given the art work making the females look to have flatter, bald, more human leaning faces/ heads and the fact that the race is inspired by an animal with clear sexual-dimorphism leads me to think that limitations of the males manes prob wouldn't be reflected in females. Even more so when you realize it's the most controversial and scrutinized decision they made with the new races in ShB.

So you can call it "wigs" or hair.

---

The problem is with viera they bring up the exact same excuse as with hrothgar, "unique heads". Which is, granted, a valid one (for hrothgar). I don't expect as pronounced features as males, but they probably would likely have different shaped heads just as the males. Even if there aren't as many variations in head shape - in comparison to males - AT BEST they would, and should hope for, the same treatment viera females get. At worst, even slight variations in the animal head shape(s) would put them in the same boat as the males.