Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

The issue is not the content, it's its longevity. The model you gave might be true, but tells nothing about the longevity of the content. You can make the best content ever, if you don't give players incentives to run it, after a few runs, they'll stop doing it. Put a true relic story in Enwalker and make the relics items only gettable from Variant Dungeons, and I'm pretty sure you would have, with the same content, a lot less complaints.

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I think that idea has been suggested before, and it would have been a smart Decision. One that, they unfortunately didnt consider. It would be neat if they surprise us in the final step and its abit of a grind. But Ive been expecting that 2 steps already. Kept thinking it would be like The Resistance Relic where they eased us in with easy 1st steps, and then brought us to the grind.
Relic isnt finished yet so maybe lol.

Longevity I think is a different Argument here though. Because I was focused on the Specific Complaint that "We are Getting More of the Same"
While there is also the Complaint "Why didnt they just do more of the same"
There is "No 'New' Content" & "We just want the same type of Content"
I understand Longevity, but if we are moaning about getting the same type of content....then its weird to ask for the same type of content.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I think that idea has been suggested before, and it would have been a smart Decision. One that, they unfortunately didnt consider. It would be neat if they surprise us in the final step and its abit of a grind. But Ive been expecting that 2 steps already. Kept thinking it would be like The Resistance Relic where they eased us in with easy 1st steps, and then brought us to the grind.
Relic isnt finished yet so maybe lol.

Longevity I think is a different Argument here though. Because I was focused on the Specific Complaint that "We are Getting More of the Same"
While there is also the Complaint "Why didnt they just do more of the same"
There is "No 'New' Content" & "We just want the same type of Content"
I understand Longevity, but if we are moaning about getting the same type of content....then its weird to ask for the same type of content.

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M+ has longevity though in WoW, can FF say the same ?

I dont find running the same 2 dungeons in expert roulettes every day for 6 months very engaging personally but maybe that's just me.

You asked for someone's opinion on content and how other games do it differently, I gave you an idea in the previous page on the last post of the page, since we are on a new page I assume you didnt see it.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

""A Clear Explanation and Answer to my Question.""

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Finally, not a troll or sarcastic response from someone, so I can actually learn something, and even agree with it.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

I gave you an idea in the previous page on the last post of the page, since we are on a new page I assume you didnt see it.

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No I saw it, and responded to it.
Thank You

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

No I saw it, and responded to it.
Thank You

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You're welcome, was my pleasure, I dont mind constructive discussions, I ask for nothing more than that, better than the usual "wow bad ffxiv good" or "ffxiv bad wow good"

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

What is scheduled literally got announced at the event, its the exact same things that we had in EW

https://static.icy-veins.com/images/...new-raids.jpeg

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You are doing cherry picking. It's a new expansion, those contents are obviously present. Yoshi P itself said "of course we will have new dungeons, raids and ultimate".

Perhaps the highlight is the confirmation of a ultimate, we may have 3 if we are lucky.

You should mention the next slides too
https://i.imgur.com/ykCciIg.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZV9IeF2.png


They won't abandon current systems and we will have an exploratory zone in the next expansion.
At this point you are looking for reasons to be angry, take some rest.

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Originally Posted by Elissar

You are doing cherry picking. It's a new expansion, those contents are obviously present. Yoshi P itself said "of course we will have new dungeons, raids and ultimate".

Perhaps the highlight is the confirmation of a ultimate, maybe we will have 3 if we are lucky.



You should mention the next slides too
https://i.imgur.com/ykCciIg.png
https://i.imgur.com/ZV9IeF2.png


They won't abandon current systems and we will have a exploratory zone on the next expansion.
At this point you are looking for reasons to be angry, take some rest.

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Thank you for proving my point that nothing is new on the next slide too.

Someone said this earlier in the thread but it's worth reiterating: An absence of rewards in a single player game is perfectly fine. The developer/publisher of a single player game is nothing to gain from people putting 500+ hours into it. Good rewards are mandatory in MMOs. If you don't have good rewards, your MMO starts to feel empty and dead which is the worst thing possible. Nobody wants to feel alone in an MMO. If you do have lots of good rewards you have a situation like Bozja/Eureka where people log in and do the same stuff over and over, some may even enjoy it. For the people who don't enjoy it, they'll probably still do it and maybe they'll even make some friends. If you don't add any good rewards, you have a situation like we have now in EW where people do the new content one time, maybe two, and don't touch it again. This means that the people who already did it have less reason to resub and people who couldn't do the new content the first week or two have a hard time finding groups to do it so they give up. This also means that in general fewer people are in the game doing stuff causing the game to feel empty and boring. I don't mind us getting the same type of stuff in DT as we got in EW as long as it's actually fun and rewarding. But those two things are what, IMO, EW has failed to be.

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Originally Posted by Loonastra

I used to not be the biggest fan of Zepla, as some people i knew raided with her back in TEA, and generally wasn't someone i used to relate to much.

Though, this video was pretty much on point with how i feel with the game aswell,(I even called Endwalker the WoD of FFXIV in one of my previous posts) i usually take small breaks between raidtiers/ultimates and such but this time i feel like my breaks are way longer and it makes me care for the game less even though i've been playing since ARR.

I still love the game, the artstyle, the raids and i do feel like this expansion was definately the weakest in terms of content. My FC became a ghost town most of the time... So yeah, i'll be patient but i've heard a lot of people in my friend circle that if Dawntrail is exactly the same as this expansion that we might just kind of stop playing the game.

I'm not denying that some of you guys are still having fun with the game, that's totally fine i just wish i didn't see some people try to deny others from having fun by saying we have ""enough"" when previous expansions had more content, more content that can be done whenever you want is better even if it's content you do not care about.

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I'm enjoying it a lot because I began playing two months ago and that means I have a lot of content to play through; however, I've been a fan of the game since ARR and followed its evolution, and I can see why people would be disappointed at this point and I bet my perspective would be different if I was a veteran.
Heck, even as a newcomer I can already see some glaring issues including:

-Lack of tanks and healers compared to dps classes.
-Stale Healer gameplay, with community concerns being answered with sarcasm by the producer.
-A terrible level sync system that makes older content non engaging.
-Lack of incentive for doing old Ex and Savage content synced, which makes it so newer players have it harder to keep up, grow, and experience some unique bosses, like Gaia and Neo Exdeath.
-Cash shop slowly pushing away in game cosmetic rewards.
-No future proofing exploratory content.
-Disregard for chat and PF moderation.

I don't think the game is falling off a cliff yet, but we're getting dangerously close, and I get the feeling Dawntrail will be the accelerator rather than the break.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

I DO understand this, but this is also true of other stuff. Criterion is going to be 3 dungeons, 15 bosses, with 3 difficulty settings and mechanic sets, and the boss attack patterns and abilities, even within a difficulty, have alterations (e.g. I'm only counting the first boss as "1", but it's actually "3" since it's on each path AND each one has at least two variations, so it's actually "6"). Island Sanctuary is a grind and customization and minion and outdoor furnishing and party/venue/friends group and "grind" for rewards content. Calling them "just Criterion/Island" is disingenuous, too, but it's what people are doing.

Though, again: I complain about Bozja/Eureka being gone. Have you not seen me do so in my posts?

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As you can see by my post count I'm rather new to this forum and I didn't really feel like reading over 100 pages out of this thread, so not really, I haven't seen you do so.
But it's nice knowing we're on the same page.

That aside, if you're going spreadsheet mode to compare the content, I still maintain that we're getting less content overall.

Bozja and Zadnor both had 12 Critical Engagements, a lot of them with Normal Trial/Alliance Raid mechanical complexity, and 3 Duels with savage level mechanics, that's already 30 encounters total.
Then you add Castrum Lacus Litore, which also has like 3 interesting fights in it and Dalriada, admittedly a little worse but still at least 2 decent fights.
Aside from all that Memoria Misera was a fun little Extreme Trial and Delubrum Reginae was a full on Alliance Raid with a very interesting Savage difficulty on top of it.
That's not even counting over 50 FATE's that as much as people like to bash as boring a few of them were actually kind of interesting.

Even if you add DD to the count I don't really think Criterion manages to compare to this.

BTW, savage difficulty is just normal Criterion with bumped up HP/Damage and a few limitations like being unable to rez, I wouldn't call that a whole different set of mechanics but you do you.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Thank you for proving my point that nothing is new on the next slide too.

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I will say your wrong there because it literally says ongoing stuff which is what the side pertains to...so that's not proving your point....because the slide didn't say new content types or whatever it says ongoing systems which is what they are....come on stormy...I'm waiting for the 7.0 patch notes saying they deliberately demo'd your house :P

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

I will say your wrong there because it literally says ongoing stuff which is what the side pertains to...so that's not proving your point....because the slide didn't say new content types or whatever it says ongoing systems which is what they are....come on stormy...I'm waiting for the 7.0 patch notes saying they deliberately demo'd your house :P

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I am talking about brand new content, I mentioned it last page, BRAND NEW. Something that hasnt been done before.

Show me that on the slide and I'll admit to being wrong.

All that is shown is literally more of the same we've had in EW.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

EW is clearly not the expac for that and I'm sure 7.0 additions as well as FF16 are part of why.

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People's belief that FF16 is the issue ignores that they started developing it during Heavensward patches or alongside Stormblood, which are better regarded in terms of content longevity. They were even developing it during Shadowbringers whilst releasing things like Bozja, Zadnor, DR, DRS and an extra extreme trial. They also just flat out delayed it by 6 months to account for covid delays, which is a lot of extra time.

While a lot of developers moved over to FF16, many of the people who did, did this during Heavensward patches or in Stormblood. I don't think it's really related to there being new developers, but rather their mindset changing and Yoshi-P changing direction over time. They could make something like Bozja, CLL, Dalriada or DRS again, they just chose not to because things like Island Sanctuary are more important in their current priorities.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

dont expect ANYTHING different from EW in Dawntrail

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I don't think people on either side of this argument can disagree with this unless they just haven't been around long enough. Even if you're defending SE the one thing they just don't change much is their content formula.

They mostly stick with this formula and usually just change one or two content decisions, such as not having a Deep Dungeons or optional dungeons and adding Ishgard Restoration in Shadowbringers, or adding Island Sanctuary and V&C to replace Eureka/Bozja in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

I am talking about brand new content

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We may get some sort of combination of deep dungeons and Eureka/Bozja elements, but they were vague on this. They just said the deep dungeon won't work the same as previous ones and that it may incorporate some sort of open battle content, so we'll have to see.

Whether someone would consider an adaption of the deep dungeon as "brand new" is going to depend on the person I suppose.

They also said new lifestyle content. I doubt they mean it will work anything like Island Sanctuary. It will most likely be something that hasn't been done before. But it is in the category of lifestyle content so many people will dismiss it anyway because they only care about battle content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2-CV9cKC1s

New video got released

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2-CV9cKC1s

New video got released

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Thanks for posting this. I usually don't keep up with FFXIV streamers, so I wouldn't have known about any of this if you didn't post about it.

You're a bit late: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...er-Left-Behind

Serious discussion there, crapposting/derailing here. Seems a fair trade.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Don't make me laugh, your thread is full of derailment because you started off by insulting Zepla and the forum community (falsely).

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Strange: Can you point to where in that thread I insulted Zepla?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I like this thread more. Less insufferable self importance.

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Cool. You...uh...do you, then.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Aye, seems like the reverse is the case.

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That's because Fenyx is upset I posted it first.

She posted the link here after I posted that thread, then wasn't getting bites so she started another thread (titled with snark) and then spent pages of my thread trying to derail it and shunt people to her other thread.

So yeah, she's the one trying to derail that thread. And, as noted, has already lied about my thread in an attempt to justify doing so.

It should have been apparent before, but it absolutely should be now that she's not...well, whatever. You do you, too.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

Except your thread was derailed by post 2, the entire first page was derailed, and Fenyx didn't appear until page 3.

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Yeah, by Fenyx's closest ally here, Alexia/Stormpeaks. Alexia derailed it while Fenyx posted her post here, then she started derailing that one 11:23, 3 minutes before she posted her thread, 11:26 and before she made her post here, 11:27, after which she spent the next ~10 mins making three most posts there, consecutive posts, to try and derail the thread.

/sigh

I mean, you can believe whatever you want, but a person making one derailing post, posting a second thread, a new post in this thread to try to drive the discussion here, then three more CONSECUTIVE derailing posts in that thread in a row is who you're saying isn't trying to derail that thread and, presumably(?), is acting in good faith.

That's not a very sound position.

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Oh yes, and my thread wasn't derailed by post 2. I took onboard the person's consideration, which they even appreciated:

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Thank you Ren, no insult was intended with my comment, I just had little faith that there would be new content.

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So clearly the thread had not derailed by then, despite Alexia's heartfelt and fervent attempt to do so. It wasn't until Fenyx joined Alexia/Stormpeaks in attempting to derail it that it kind of got derailed. Other posters were actually having good discussion there until the derailers started.

Oddly, for once, they're trying to have genuine discussion...but in Fenyx's thread. How wild is that? Actively derailing one discussion thread to try and force people into her thread to discuss a topic while pretending that her thread is the genuine one.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

You're a bit late: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...er-Left-Behind

Serious discussion there, crapposting/derailing here. Seems a fair trade.

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Don't make me laugh, your thread is full of derailment because you started off by insulting Zepla and the forum community (falsely).

I like this thread more. Less insufferable self importance.

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Originally Posted by FenyxRising

Don't make me laugh, your thread is full of derailment because you started off by insulting Zepla and the forum community (falsely).

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Aye, seems like the reverse of what he said is the case. Would've helped to keep the pre-edit OP free of snark, or better yet... just post it in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

So yeah, she's the one trying to derail that thread. And, as noted, has already lied about my thread in an attempt to justify doing so.

It should have been apparent before, but it absolutely should be now that she's not...well, whatever. You do you, too.

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Except your thread was derailed by post 2, the entire first page was derailed, and Fenyx didn't appear until page 3.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

Except your thread was derailed by post 2, the entire first page was derailed, and Fenyx didn't appear until page 3.

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Don't take this away from him. All he has in his life are the enemies on this forum that he purposefully makes for himself.

And, you know, none of that would be happening if he had something to do in FFXIV besides come on to the forums to try and be the Warrior of Light here.

Hey friends, my sub has been out for a bit, so I'm not gonna be able to post soon. A shame, since I have so much to say, but I really think that I'm checked out.

There's simply too many bad things about this expansion for me to even have the rose-tinted googles that I do for Shadowbringers or Heavensward. Why did my entire FC, four statics, and social group explode? It's not because of the release of Elden Ring, or AC6, or BG3, or Honkai, or any of that. It's not because they were "burned out". It's because we were spending more time talking about what we miss, or what we're disappointed in over even playing enjoyable content for over a year. It's because the game itself became unfun to play because of the changes in the jobs, the changes in the savages raids that are now just body check simulators, the absurdity of TOP. Objectively, I have spent less time in Endwalker that I have in even a single patch of Shadowbringers or Stormblood, not just because I find the actual gameplay experience of the jobs not only lackluster, but a complete downgrade in many aspects, but that so many people around me agreed with that prognosis that they effectively unsubbed until further notice, and didn't come back/didn't get invested in anything outside of MSQ. Every once in awhile I'll see someone turn up, ask if the game is fun yet, receive a RESOUNDING "lmao no" and away they go again. Endwalker caused the collapse of the MMO part of an MMORPG around me.

Seeing that interview from Mr. Ozma is like, another straw for me. There have been so many opportunities for communication about these issues that go beyond "Our metrics say everything is fine" and "sub number high" because there will come a point where the metrics MIGHT NOT be fine! Datacenters outside of like, what, Aether??? are a desolate wasteland, but that's made even worse by DC travel. It's top tier being a newer player right now with a backlog, but as of late, I refuse to bring new players in unless they are MSQ-ONLY, as they just won't be given a compelling gameplay experience that they can find in literally any other game.

I went to Fanfest. I AM A FAN OF THIS GAME. But rather than being in an abusive relationship, it's almost like I'm in an avoidant one. I want the devs to communicate with us, not just about fluff nonsense but about the GAME itself. I want the devs to WANT me to play their game! That they feel Yes, we are PROUD of our work, we WANT you to be here with US! I want the devs to want my attention as a player! Because right now, they really don't seem like they could care whether I was here or not. Every other game is FIGHTING for my attention, they want me to come enjoy the experience they've created with their vision. FFXIV doesn't even put up a compelling argument. They just say "Come back later!" I did. What did you change? Nothing. "Take another break!" I did. What did you add? Nothing engaging for me and my friends, based on our playrate. "Play another job!" I did. You ruined the combat, and refuse to acknowledge that feedback is even exists on the front. Good god, being a support focused player in this MMO is actual hell.

I am glad that I am finally allowed a platform to say these things, and that other people are experiencing something similar. Because I really don't want to feel like all my friends left for no reason, and that their experiences didn't matter. Because they mattered to me.

I don't know what's going on at CBU3, but there's clearly something off. FFXIV has stagnated and FFXVI is the most shallow, soulless game I have played in the series (having played all of them since FFVI).

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Originally Posted by purgatori

I don't know what's going on at CBU3, but there's clearly something off. FFXIV has stagnated and FFXVI is the most shallow, soulless game I have played in the series (having played all of them since FFVI).

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The crazy thing is for a bit I thought FFXVI was a good game... right up until Baldur's Gate 3 came along and blew it out of the water. FFXVI is still sort of ok in my book, but the depth of its plot and setting pales in comparison to BG3's by a huge margin.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

The crazy thing is for a bit I thought FFXVI was a good game... right up until Baldur's Gate 3 came along and blew it out of the water. FFXVI is still sort of ok in my book, but the depth of its plot and setting pales in comparison to BG3's by a huge margin.

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FF 16 is more akin to God of War in a lot of ways. For me, that is a pretty significant pro, but it definitely goes against what FF usually is.

16 was fantastic right up until they finished the first foray into zanbreque when they decided to dump the game of thrones style story for the most generic JRPG “kill the evil god” plotline they could one up with

Yet despite doing a 180 on storyline they still didn’t drop the most uninspired take on slavery I think I’ve ever seen and continued to drill it into our heads every second, they didn’t even use that plotline effectively

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Originally Posted by purgatori

I don't know what's going on at CBU3, but there's clearly something off. FFXIV has stagnated and FFXVI is the most shallow, soulless game I have played in the series (having played all of them since FFVI).

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There is no pleasing some people then. Story and sidequests seemed good and regardless of if it's easy, the fighting looked cool visually.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Seeing that interview from Mr. Ozma is like, another straw for me.

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Thing is that what he says makes a lot of sense and has a lot of truth to it. People were constantly trying to maximize uptime and felt bad when they lost out on DPS, for example, because of the nature of their role (being melee) and subsequent phase changes that interrupted their rotations. It's fair to say that you actually liked those issues because they were something to fight against, but it really did feel in the past like a lot of people were fighting the system as if they wished they could have 100% uptime so SE just granted their wish.

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there will come a point where the metrics MIGHT NOT be fine!

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I think so too because statistics usually catch up eventually if there is a problem. But so far they have been managing to keep them high with all the new players and returners.

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Originally Posted by Noumenon

Fenyx didn't appear until page 3.

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I see them earlier than that.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

The crazy thing is for a bit I thought FFXVI was a good game... right up until Baldur's Gate 3 came along and blew it out of the water. FFXVI is still sort of ok in my book, but the depth of its plot and setting pales in comparison to BG3's by a huge margin.

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I'm really eager to see how Dragon's Dogma 2 fares, on that note. Since it's also a Japanese RPG attempting to capture the 'Western Action RPG' style without losing sight of being an RPG.

FFXVI fooled me with the promise of Ivalice style intrigue but as Supersnow pointed out, it sort of abandoned all that towards the latter half of the game. Ironically sort of similarly to how FFXIV decided to throw out any story line that had genuine, lasting nuance and grey morality.

I was shocked that it took the exact same approach to side quests as FFXIV does. They've certainly had a lot of criticism over the years regarding that particular style and the amount of time spent watching rather than playing. No side content was a bizarre decision too. There's hunts, sure, but then you look at the likes of The Witcher 3 which had horse races, a card game, fist fight competitions and a tourney....and then there's older JRPG's like Shadow Hearts and Breath of Fire 4 which had a whole bunch of fun side content to explore.

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

The crazy thing is for a bit I thought FFXVI was a good game... right up until Baldur's Gate 3 came along and blew it out of the water. FFXVI is still sort of ok in my book, but the depth of its plot and setting pales in comparison to BG3's by a huge margin.

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I said this before, but FFXVI reeks of PS3/Xbox 360 Corporate Japan Stench. Remember how they made Nier a beefy ugly dude with an eyepatch for the global release because "people won't like our japanese-styled protagonist"? Or how Capcom thought outsourcing development of Devil May Cry was good because "westerners are tired of Dante"? Oh! Let's not forget what Konami did to Silent Hill!

Seriously, I thought they learned their lesson. It makes CBU3 seem disconnected from current times. I mean, how many brooding FF protagonists with sad stories and heart breaking endings more do we need? They just slapped blood, sex and swearing on the FF name and turned it into a generic Hack and Slash. For all the hate FFVII Remake gets because of its awful final part, at least it actually turned the ATB system into an interesting action and RPG blend...

16 100% feels like a game where all the decisions around its structure and content were made in 2009

The game is rigid, stale and plots like the bearer plotline feel like a first stab at a controversial topic back when social issues in video games that didn’t involve critiquing government structures wasn’t terribly common

The game just feels so dated

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Strange: Can you point to where in that thread I insulted Zepla?

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You just mad you got, got and now you're playing coy. :rolleyes:



https://i.imgur.com/owBjEBj.png

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

16 100% feels like a game where all the decisions around its structure and content were made in 2009

The game is rigid, stale and plots like the bearer plotline feel like a first stab at a controversial topic back when social issues in video games that didn’t involve critiquing government structures wasn’t terribly common

The game just feels so dated

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IMO with FF16. As a standalone game, it's not bad per say. It is lacking gameplay content as the area designs are very linear with game time heavily padded with cutscenes and exposition segments where control is taken away from the player. The story felt lacking which I felt was most likely due to Japanese writers trying to emulate western storytelling. It at least had the expected impressive visuals and music score. So overall again as a standalone game I didn't consider it bad. As a Final Fantasy mainline numbered entry however, I felt it fell short considerably and should have been at best a spinoff title.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

16 100% feels like a game where all the decisions around its structure and content were made in 2009

The game is rigid, stale and plots like the bearer plotline feel like a first stab at a controversial topic back when social issues in video games that didn’t involve critiquing government structures wasn’t terribly common

The game just feels so dated

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The gameplay is also awfully shallow, for an action game.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

What posts are you referring to and from what user? Didnt know stuff has been touched from mods



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I had ended my time on page 136 before bed. There was only one post on that page.

Checking the next day, there was 138 pages and the post on 136 was found a page or 2 back. Meaning posts have been removed or deleted by moderators or the poster themselves.

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Originally Posted by CStrife912

What posts are you referring to and from what user? Didnt know stuff has been touched from mods

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Last night I stopped on page 136 which had 1 post on it. Came bach this morning to 138 pages, and the past that was on 136 was found a page or 2 back. Which means posts have been deleted. (Sorry if double post. Forums being strange on my phone today with replies)

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Originally Posted by Swordsman

The crazy thing is for a bit I thought FFXVI was a good game... right up until Baldur's Gate 3 came along and blew it out of the water. FFXVI is still sort of ok in my book, but the depth of its plot and setting pales in comparison to BG3's by a huge margin.

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BG3 is great but when people say that really makes me realise a lot of FF fans don't actually play other japanese RPGs. Because there was nothing original in XVI, and everything it borrowed from DMC's combat is executed with significantly less depth or flexibility.

Ever since XV all they do with FF is try to chase trends from games that were popular in the west, but barely scratch the surface of the features those popular games have that make them good. Final Fantasy hasn't been peak jRPG since XIII either.

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Originally Posted by Aldath

Seriously, I thought they learned their lesson. It makes CBU3 seem disconnected from current times. I mean, how many brooding FF protagonists with sad stories and heart breaking endings more do we need? They just slapped blood, sex and swearing on the FF name and turned it into a generic Hack and Slash. For all the hate FFVII Remake gets because of its awful final part, at least it actually turned the ATB system into an interesting action and RPG blend...

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Okay this is gonna sound petty and purely my opinion but the """mature""" elements they added to XVI feel completely superficial, as if they based it on what a teenager considers mature, either that or their only understanding of the appeal of Game of Thrones is the gratuitous violence and sex. And before anyone calls me a weird sheltered mormon prude or whatever, I'm the biggest sailor mouth I know and the only reason why people don't witness it here is because I'm not risking a ban over an F bomb.

They just feel out of place given XVI's story is not really anymore mature or dark than any other mainline FF game (not saying that it needs to be to have sex/bloody violence/swearing of course, but there's a time and place for everything).

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

BG3 is great but when people say that really makes me realise a lot of FF fans don't actually play other japanese RPGs. Because there was nothing original in XVI, and everything it borrowed from DMC's combat is executed with significantly less depth or flexibility.

Ever since XV all they do with FF is try to chase trends from games that were popular in the west, but barely scratch the surface of the features those popular games have that make them good. Final Fantasy hasn't been peak jRPG since XIII either.

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To me the peak entries of the FF main series were 4,5,6,and 9. 4,5,and 6 were made during the 16bit console era where visuals were still important, but weren't really able to be pushed to the point where a game could sell itself on visuals alone. The titles had to rely on the quality of story telling and gameplay mechanics in order to retain any kind of relevance in the JRPG market. Something that numerous companies understood at the time which resulted in a rather large assortment of JRPG franchises despite the genre remaining under the radar for most of the world outside of Japan at the time. 9 was the final entry in the PS1 era and hit a sort of return to form throwback to the series 8bit and 16 bit days which might have been due to the experimentation done with 8's gameplay backfiring heavily. 7 wasn't a bad entry tbh but I honestly feel the reason it's pushed up so much by people is because it was the first title SE put a fair amount of effort into marketing outside of Japan resulting in it being the first entry of the entire series or even the JRPG genre for a generation of gamers. Then the PS2 era hit and that felt like when the games started shifting more towards flash over substance. 10 wasn't bad however a noticeable amount of people felt playing Blitzball was more entertaining than the main game. 11 was it's first MMO entry and kind of backpedaled from the direction 10 took by saturating the title with things to do. 12 felt like the first push towards making a more action oriented JRPG and turned into a mostly solid entry. Then we hit the PS3 with 13 which felt like multiple steps were taken backwards in favor of a visual spectacle. The original 14 hit but struggled IMO primarily due to how the game was handled more than it's design, 15 hit which had a few things new to it but to many felt like SE trying to make their own version of something like Skyrim with an open world but as mentioned they only scratched the surface of what could be done with that style of game, then 14 ARR came about which was essentially rebuilding the game as a WoW clone while staying different enough that people don't refer to it as a WoW clone. And that brings us to 16 which pretty much threw away the series' entire identity as a JRPG franchise to give us a FF flavored DMC styled action game.

I don't have any issues with them making FF titles of other genres or styled after other titles. They've been doing it for quite awhile. However those titles weren't given mainline numbers in the franchise series.
Tactics
Chrystal Chronicles
Explorers
Fables
Mobius
Brave Exvius
Etc..

There was also the 3 Legend entries and Adventure but atm i cannot remember if that was just the names used to market the games in the west or if those were the original ones. The legend series titles are actually the first 3 entries in the SaGa series and Adventure was the start of the Mana series.

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Originally Posted by R041

You just mad you got, got and now you're playing coy. :rolleyes:

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Translation: You didn't, but I'm in too deep in my crusade against you to admit you are innocent of the crimes I'm using to justify my unfair and abysmal treatment of you.

.

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EDIT:

Don't want to dignify all this or this thread with a bump, so sticking it here:

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Originally Posted by R041

Just act like a normal person, and you won't get called out - Kinda all there is to it. Also you @ me and I respond.

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Define "normal person", but that's also irrelevant: People have accused me of something I literally didn't do. When I demand evidence - that they either justify the attack or realize it's wrong so my name is cleared - they refuse. Every one. Because it IS a lie and they/you all know it.

Yet it keeps happening. Over and over.

It's not normal to lie about people without evidence and then refuse to admit and apologize for it when called out.

And, yet again, I didn't have any "spite" in that discussion. And there was no "act"; I straight up said in the OP here - which I can link yet again for you to not read it again - that I agreed with most of what Zepla said in the video this thread is about. The ONLY thing I found fault with was what I perceived as her casting shade on the community and trying to preempt opposition viewpoints. That's it.

I've been far more unbiased than you or others have been, but even so, I didn't PRESENT myself, or "act like" I was. No where. So there's nothing to "own up" to as there was no "backtracking and lying". You have decided things were true that aren't. I'd ask you to show some proof of me doing so, but we both know either you won't show any or you'll present something you perceived as that which wasn't, and when I explain it wasn't, instead of admit you were wrong, will just accuse me of lying about it.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Okay, you must be joking. You can't honestly think that following a poster around and digging through their post history to make memes out of them for literally every comment they make is normal. Going so far to use internet archives to call them out on a changed post solely to mock them ISN'T normal.

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The thing is, I don't even get it. R041 and I haven't interacted in any way I'm aware of, and given creation date and number of posts and writing style, he doesn't seem like he'd be an alt of someone else that WOULD have a grudge (Titan and Stormpeaks) that they want to attack me with. I genuinely don't get his crusade against me.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Wouldn't the very response you're talking about have already made clear simply that he just hadn't yet refreshed his tab? That's not exactly a deep dive through the interwebs...

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It is worth noting that:

a) He only said that AFTER I noted it would be kind of stalkerish to take screenshots to use for future attacks, and,
b) He hasn't exactly been honest, like his refusal to provide evidence to justify his slander against me and trying to mask that with further attacks.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

You aren't wrong. Not sure why every time Rentharis posts its some conversation for several pages about his posting style, things he posted in the past that have nothing to do with the current topic, or just random insults. Some I think are more on the forums for drama and insults than any real discussion I imagine.

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Very much this.

It's especially jarring since I don't do that to other people in return. The only cases I have is when a certain someone wouldn't let things go and was still mostly to defend against him lying about me.

And it's "would be funny if it wasn't so sad" ironic when they accuse me of wanting to derail threads and shut people up when I'm the only one talking about the topic, they're all trying to derail it, and I'm trying to get them to engage on the topic (not shut them up) while they're trying to smother me into silence.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

Translation: You didn't, but I'm in too deep in my crusade against you to admit you are innocent of the crimes I'm using to justify my unfair and abysmal treatment of you.

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Just act like a normal person, and you won't get called out - Kinda all there is to it. Also you @ me and I respond.

You can even call me out on memes anytime, and I have to accept that - Because it's the truth.

But if you want to have a discussion out of spite, and then put on an act like you're also the unbiased mediator.. Just own up to it, instead of backtracking and lying constantly.