As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by era1Ne

you say only dots are needed for 80th and then admit he did use malefic sometimes, because if you wanted to proof your point thats an odd way to do it, since your "and the odd malefic" comment proves mine instead. Also as you know healer dmg depends a lot on the group, especially tanks you are playing with. Shouldn't be used as an excuse ofc

---

Let`s not get caught up over semantics. The point I was trying to make is that he is solohealing content and hitting those percentiles, but you were more focused on nitpicking any flaws in my argument. Also I`m pretty sure it`s common sense healer dps is gated, to an extent, behind tank skill as well but there`s always in every case opportunities to get better. In addition, if you`re applying to a mid-hardcore group it`s assumed you know how to play your class; no one cares how new you are on it, if you can`t perform to their expectations you`re wasting everyone`s time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

In two minutes (more or less; depends on group) anything or nothing can happen (from wipe to disconnect, more incoming damage that must be healed, annoying mechanics, etc... but it's always a longer run :) ) Why force something unwritten because someone is unwilling to put some effort in the healer job?!

---

Well wouldnt want to force anything that not where I stand. Im advocating no force either way. Point was I dont think it matters that much if healer dpses or not really . Not in any instance savage incuded now because of echo. Its not essential so why force that stance?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Well wouldnt want to force anything that not where I stand. Im advocating no force either way. Point was I dont think it matters that much if healer dpses or not really . Not in any instance savage incuded now because of echo. Its not essential so why force that stance?

---

Feyona, we've come full circle again.

With the utmost good will, I ask you: what is your goal for discussion here? What are you trying to achieve?

I don't think people are literally going to force other players to do anything. Either they will, or they won't. If it's a static situation they may be asked to find a better suited group or choose a different role. If it's duty finder, you can't force others to do anything; if people's playstyles bother someone that much there's the option to leave the duty or kick. But these are all choices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Its not essential so why force that stance?

---

Read the thread, people are tired of explaining this over and over

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Feyona, we've come full circle again.

With the utmost good will, I ask you: what is your goal for discussion here? What are you trying to achieve?

I don't think people are literally going to force other players to do anything. Either they will, or they won't. If it's a static situation they may be asked to find a better suited group or choose a different role. If it's duty finder, you can't force others to do anything; if people's playstyles bother someone that much there's the option to leave the duty or kick. But these are all choices.

---

I know boundreamer I know but seiben I think asked me so I replied. And goodwill to you too but is it ok if I reply to someone if they ask me something? Plus I dont have 'badwill towards anyone here but there are two stances on the issue as you know not just here but other threads. Was refering to that. Seiben mentioned forced I replied using the same word.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Read the thread, people are tired of explaining this over and over

---

lambdafish you dont have to explain anything,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Well wouldnt want to force anything that not where I stand. Im advocating no force either way. Point was I dont think it matters that much if healer dpses or not really . Not in any instance savage incuded now because of echo. Its not essential so why force that stance?

---

It may be not essential but it'll help to clear the content and defeat enemies and bossmonster faster. I've seen healer in Dun Scaith which healed or schielded people (AST Collective Unconscious :D ) while Proto Ultima doing his enrageor just doing nothing because no damage incoming for example.

It's not force cleric stance at these healers but to encourage them using it and show them that there is a better way instead to stay idle and watching everybody (more or less) doing their best :)

The funny or sad thing is, that the OP mentioned it already at the very first post.

Besides:
If I playing as a tank it annoys me to get hit every second by a vita or a physic+embrace combo if I loose 5% HP. Cast regen or let fairy heal alone and interfere only if there is really need of healing.
It helps also to switch the classes from time to time to see how it feels if you are the one who recieves the aid (or the terror of healingsound spam; hmm maybe I can kick the healer because of harassment :D )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sieben79

It may be not essential but it'll help to clear the content and defeat enemies and bossmonster faster. I've seen healer in Dun Scaith which healed or schielded people (AST Collective Unconscious :D )

---

Yes I know. Really though its when you dont have space you dont. Its always whether the situation allows it really as everyone has said including me and I have pld, bard, blm, sumoner and all three healers so kind of know what each role feels like. I guess its up to you if you want to kick someone for healing you. Alot of people on these threads have said its ok to kick someone for anything really so why not? I mean I wouldnt but guess it comes down to what you want again. I dont mind how someone heals as long as I can do the instance doesnt bother me if healers dps or not and as tank Im not really bothered if I get healed to much or not, how, long it takes, or if players are optimal. Iguess on a social game we have to put up with how others are or not que for instancd with the potential of getting anyone who plays how you dont like.I do see your point , how others do things can annoy others but hey this is life and if everyone did what everyone else wants I think life could be very boring. Just see it as part of the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

So you may clear 2 minutes faster if you dps, what is 2 minutes in the grand scheme of things? Who put this idea of right and wrong way anyway?

---

Here's some cold hard facts for you, please try to read carefully and thoroughly before you reply, please appreciate whilst some of my points may seem a little harsh, I do feel your pain being a healy healer as well <3

Pre Echo, DF pugs generally failed at A12S because they would have to handle at least two and sometimes even three sets of pools in phase 5 (Arguably the hardest part of the encounter to coordinate if you're not sure). Needless to say, the clear percentage of pugs was very low at this point, maybe 1 in 10?

Now with Echo, the kill rate has risen dramatically, personally I'm seeing somewhere between 1 in 3 up to maybe as high as 50/50 success vs fail in A12s now.

I can promise you that it isn't the extra HP. If tanks don't use cooldowns correctly they will still get one shot, messing up mechanics is also still typically a one shot death for those involved.

Naturally the real difference is DPS. Simply put, now a decent DF pug with healers doing reasonable midfield DPS can kill A12s before the second set of pools.

This *TRIVIALISES* arguably the hardest point in the encounter. I really cannot stress this enough.

So yes, that 2 minutes quite literally makes or breaks a typical A12s group. (And actually only needs to be about 45-60 seconds to make the difference tbh)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Point was I dont think it matters that much if healer dpses or not really . Not in any instance savage incuded now because of echo. Its not essential so why force that stance?

---

I'd agree outside of Savage, the bulk of the content in this game is very lenient on DPS and thus you would be utterly correct. However, as far as savage goes, you are entirely incorrect. If anything, right now Echo actually makes healer DPS more important because of the thresholds it allows average pugs to hit:

A9S - Killing before double hand, killing before faust.
A10S - Skipping tank switches
A11S - Skipping orbs
A12S - Skipping tank busters, killing before pools.

Hitting these marks amongst others will make a pugs chances of successfully clearing dramatically higher.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Please stop throwing mental health issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

---

And to reply in kind:

Please stop throwing savage alex issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

http://i.imgur.com/D99NuNT.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Here's some cold hard facts for you.

Please stop throwing savage alex issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here]

---

While you are reasonable at first with your argument, the content, Im sure was never intended to be easy to clear. It was ,however scaled without healer dps and made to be a challenge. While reading your post I was thinking 'but its suposed to be difficult, why are you complaining' Then sadly your post deteriorated into yet another poke at me and I AM qualified to talk about savage because I DO savage content and how can you possibly compare someone using mental health issues to try to derogate someone with experience of savage? The two things are completly incompatible. but will you stop having a poke at me it only shows up a possibility of some kind of obsession as this was dropped a few posts ago

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

It was ,however scaled without healer dps and made to be a challenge.

---

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

While reading your post I was thinking 'but its suposed to be difficult, why are you complaining'

---

Oh I'm not complaining at all, if anything I think A12S is slightly too easy, doubly so given the ease of bypassing such significant portions of the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Then sadly your post deteriorated into yet another poke at me and I AM qualified to talk about savage because I DO savage content

---

But you don't appear to understand it's intricacies and certainly not how difficult it can really be (Aka A1S-A8S).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

and how can you possibly compare someone using mental health issues to try to derogate someone with experience of savage?

---

Hyper defensive. Stop it =(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Please stop throwing savage alex issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

---

The answer was just a few posts above you actually.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Im a casual player that loved healing on sch and got clears so I was happy. [...] I just like playing being relaxed. I dont want that pressure but still enjoy clearing stuff.

---

So i'm not sure at this point that her opinion is relevant about savage, or help this thread in a certain way now. Not that she can't share it obviously, or that her playstyle is awfully bad (or that she's wrong to play the way she wants), but at this point there is just no point to give her more answers than needed. Especially since her comments are off topic, and as we said many times that not being optimal outside of savage isn't an issue.

Even if she does savage now, that doesn't change facts. I mean, if tomorrow I decide to be a runner, I won't try to put all my thoughts about this on athletes doing the olympic games, or asking them to change their playstyle to fit with mine. Especially if I admitted being a casual. Or it would make no sense. And in the same way, I wouldn't feel offended by what they are able to do while I'm not. Especially if I don't want to make any efforts to change this. That doesn't mean that I couldn't run where I want, it would only mean that I shouldn't try to teach them to slow down, just for being able to run at their sides because of my lack of experience and/or confidence.
^this is an exaggerated example, so do not get your mind in a twist.

But honestly, I did enjoy your drop mic here, hehe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Please stop throwing mental health issues around Im sure your not qualified to do so and I think you need to look at whether your behaviour is appropriate here

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

but will you stop having a poke at me it only shows up a possibility of some kind of obsession as this was dropped a few posts ago

---

couldn't resist, Doc Feyona. ^ ^v

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Hyper defensive. Stop it =(

---

Unfortunately, yeah. But cheer up !

/disappear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wanzer

The answer was just a few posts above you actually.


So i'm not sure at this point that her opinion is relevant about savage, or help this thread in a certain way now. Not that she can't share it obviously

/disappear

---

Im not really sure this is even relevant but your argument is actually bordering on ridiculous as quoted there. If I do savage as a healer Im well qualified to comment on it wether Im a casual player or not it isnt your place to judge if any playstyle is allowed to do savage and really who are you ? With your assumptions about others and judgement about their game play or personality? Have you even tried to ask yourself seriousy how ridiculous some of your posts are? Like they arnt even logical. Like the one asking me to give you evidence of how you insulted me while insulting me and admitting you did so.

Oh boy, the edits keep coming...
http://i.imgur.com/WSd7B5X.gif
Sorry guys ! I'm out now, I swear ! x)

But I put so much sugar on my previous comment, it's just so amazing !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

---

Just chipping in on this, but you have to remember that they tune the fights for an ilevel that's much higher than what you'll have when a raid tier is released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yoshi-P in an interview

For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS.

---

They may not count it when balancing, but healer DPS can contribute to a large chunk of the shortfall you'll have when essentially fighting under the "recommended iLevel".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

If I do savage as a healer Im well qualified to comment on it wether Im a casual player or not it isnt your place to judge if any playstyle is allowed to do savage

---

Wasn't it you that said that if you didn't play healer at savage level (regardless of how well rounded your savage knowledge is) you didn't have the right to comment? :rolleyes: Why do you get to dictate who can and can't have an opinion, yet others can't?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

They may not count it when balancing, but healer DPS can contribute to a large chunk of the shortfall you'll have when essentially fighting under the "recommended iLevel".

---

It also doesn't take into account rotational mistakes, meaning that what is generated is the absolute minimum DPS requirement for the party, whereas healer and tank DPS (yes, goring blade, storms eye, dark arts etc. Tanks don't complain about having rotations not relevant to their role) means that hitting this requirement is significantly easier. Healer and Tank DPS isn't small, and even if it was only saving 20 seconds of damage, that 20 seconds could still be the difference between enrage and not.

All in all, the "healer DPS isn't counted" argument is null and void unless the player is content with playing at the absolute minimum requirement of their group (which I wouldn't put past some players).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

Whilst that's the official SE line, I flat out don't believe it and suspect the majority of people who did early progression in A4S (and to a far lesser extent, A8S) will agree. Healer DPS was required for those turns during progression.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Just chipping in on this, but you have to remember that they tune the fights for an ilevel that's much higher than what you'll have when a raid tier is released.

---

To put this further into perspective on the "Fights are not tuned for Healer DPS, stance"

- Based off best optimal DPS, less 10-15% (ideal comp, doing an ideal rotation for the fight. remember these guys design the fights and know exactly how to execute them)
- Includes optimal tank DPS

So yes, maybe the fights aren't tuned for healer DPS, but they are tuned for max DD and Tank DPS @ an appropriate ilvl.

So if your group doesn't have God-Tier tanks and DPS (100th %) then any help through healer DPS is somewhat needed.

Say on a brand new fight before any major optimizations can be made, your DPS and Tanks can pull a solid 85% efficiency, on a fight that's gauged to 90% efficiency @ whatever ilvl. (Say 10,000 Party DPS is all that's going out)

Only an extra 5% DPS, or 600 DPS is needed to clear the fight. Now I know it's easy to say that the DPS and tanks need to step up their game and start pushing out 100% efficiency, but for healers to add a small amount of DPS,
i.e.
Main Heals - 200 DPS
Off Heals - 400 DPS

Which is essentially keeping up dots and adding in a few other attacks where possible, is in the realm of possibility.

---------------------------------------

So really one can only make the argument that Raid fights are not designed with healer DPS in mind if they either:
A - Play with God-Tier DPS and Tanks 90th %
B - Don't mind waiting until 10% Echo and full gear cap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Wasn't it you that said that if you didn't play healer at savage level (regardless of how well rounded your savage knowledge is) you didn't have the right to comment? :rolleyes: Why do you get to dictate who can and can't have an opinion, yet others can't?





All in all, the "healer DPS isn't counted" argument is null and void unless the player is content with playing at the absolute minimum requirement of their group (which I wouldn't put past some players).

---

Did I say that where? If I did please show me that I said people that dont do content cant comment. What I actually said was if you dont play sch in savage you dont know what its like, same as I dont know what a tanks like (out of context and inaccurate lamdafish) Plus by now in my group (Im not optimal, hardly dps) and we one shot stuff,skipping the end of a9s and just about skipping adds if everyone stays alive that is in a10s

Feyona is the greatest troll ever....or she is really that ignorant and totally uses the SJW way of thinking to the point where no one can convince her.

To further on Judge's comment. I don't think A4S' DPS requirement was an intentional design decision as frankly, it was as steep as anything I remember from SCOB savage back when they were current. I'm more inclined to believe it was an accidental byproduct of how they tested and balanced the encounters phase by phase rather than as a complete singular encounter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Feyona is the greatest troll ever....or she is really that ignorant and totally uses the SJW way of thinking to the point where no one can convince her.

---

Next post I get trolling me will be reported Ive really had enough of it as every time I make a comment here IM TROLLED. And what exactly am I supposed to be convinced of that dont already know?

Surely back when A3S/A4S was early progression you didn't have your tanks stay in tank stance for very long either, and then we had the STR accessories/overmelds then as well. It wasn't a hardship healing-wise, but like I always say when you are short of DPS or need to make it up somewhere you always need to look at your tanks and healers first. Can we drop tank stances more, can we stay in-cleric for this if you cheese this tank buster, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sebazy

To further on Judge's comment. I don't think A4S' DPS requirement was an intentional design decision as frankly, it was as steep as anything I remember from SCOB savage back when they were current. I'm more inclined to believe it was an accidental byproduct of how they tested and balanced the encounters phase by phase rather than as a complete singular encounter.

---

Yeah, things like letting the A4S Straf Doll to explode and cast Whirbelwind was really just a way to keep DPS high on the legs at the expense of us healers having to save MP cooldowns. It totally wasn't an intended strat but it was more like "well you are going to lose all your MP anyway, might as well DPS as much as you can". Another idea in the line of what can we get away with to keep the damage high to push legs 3-4, which were the hardest DPS checks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Next post I get trolling me will be reported Ive really had enough of it as every time I make a comment here IM TROLLED. And what exactly am I supposed to be convinced of that dont already know?

---

You can disagree all you want, but you can't sit there and pretend to pick and choose what you want to respond to out of context. You need to address at least the majority of the post, and not just part of it if you want people to take you seriously. It's really sad, because we tried our best to convince you, and you just reject everything as if we don't understand what's going on. In all actual reality we are successful raiders and peeps who are genuinely having a heart to heart with you and trying to be understanding, and all you can do is play the victim. I am sorry but you are only hurting your side of the arguement not helping it, you have such a low quality form of debating and you reject facts and things so effortlessly that i genuinely think your ignorant of the facts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Next post I get trolling me will be reported Ive really had enough of it as every time I make a comment here IM TROLLED. And what exactly am I supposed to be convinced of that dont already know?

---

It's OK Feyona. Calm down. We all love you, we really do. Just very hard to understand you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

Next post I get trolling me will be reported Ive really had enough of it as every time I make a comment here IM TROLLED. And what exactly am I supposed to be convinced of that dont already know?

---

You are genuinely ignoring things people say, and not acknowledging them...only sometime out of context in your own little bubble that only benefits your side.Your behavior can be seen as trolling, i am not even joking.I seen other people get banned for less in various forums than what you done.

I am sorry if you actually are a victim of actual hate, but being a victim doesn't mean the rules should change because of your exception. Please grow up and understand how most people see things, because what works the best what matters the most, not your feelings, what's practical and helps the most people is what matters most. Not everyone views things like this, but in serious statics or parties, you cannot justify your mistakes or deficiencies all you can do is apologize and try to improve. You need to understand that most people don't care how you play in most parties as long as you clear, but you can't blame people wanting to hold you to a higher standard, and you can't blame people if they don't like you or your attitude. All you can do is try again and try to be better than what you were.

Edit:Sorry if i replied twice, i just had more things to say, in my stupor i didn't edit my original post...my bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deliciou5

You can disagree all you want, but you can't sit there and pretend to pick and choose what you want to respond to out of context. You need to address at least the majority of the post, and not just part of it if you want people to take you seriously. It's really sad, because we tried our best to convince you, and you just reject everything as if we don't understand what's going on. In all actual reality we are successful raiders and peeps who are genuinely having a heart to heart with you and trying to be understanding

---

I cant respond to everything we all respond to certain things we agree with or not. Ive already agreed healer dps is optimal what more can I say? Its optimal but some cant always do it. But when someone call me troll, strange stalker, derrogates my character, implies Im ignorant etc whaterever else calls me on here it isnt very nice and you arnt going to get the best responses from me eiither. The thing Im saying is that while learning fights like savage its very hard for some to do and Ive raided with serious people and they did not expect me to until after learning the fight. The casual group did, which is really my point its the ignorance of some that expect it. And srry if I edit I speak with controller and make mistakes cant see till after. I was ignorant of scholar being expected to dps how its expected to be played actually in a sense I thought I was a healer for a year and the casual groups didnt really show me. So I guess I will have to admit I WAS ignorant but I know now . And to save apost I det again, No, I agree Im not pro at debating and Im not a pro player either, and Im not a 'numbers' person. but I can still give feedback from the perspective of an average player, that would like to enjoy the game. You also really cant expect that only pro people can only share their experience of the game can you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormbad

It's OK Feyona. Calm down. We all love you, we really do. Just very hard to understand you.

---

My bad, I thought Id already explained where I come from over and over. Misunderstandings may work both ways I guess. And maybe I didnt make it clear, as I thought I did. I am the very first to admit Im not expert healer especially in my group , but dont like or agree that people say I dont try or something. That is a very big misconception, to me and people that say healers got nothing to do, I can only think that they are the very pro ones that genuinely dont. Its just not my experience that I dont need to heal alot, in end content. And Im talking from an average perspective

I know it's Echo now but it's still fun to push the limit of me and my co-healers heals.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...pe=damage-done

Still trying to get my Overheal down a bit more

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...l&type=healing

Like I said before for those interested in healer DPS it's a great time to really build some synergy for 4.0 ;p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I know it's Echo now but it's still fun to push the limit of me and my co-healers heals.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...pe=damage-done

Still trying to get my Overheal down a bit more

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...l&type=healing

Like I said before for those interested in healer DPS it's a great time to really build some synergy for 4.0 ;p

---

This looks like pretty average dps for a smn.... SCH?!?! HOLY CRAP! LOL nice job! But that group contribution too, wow, it probably helped tremendously that the group can kill it in under 3 minutes. Means less time you have to do mechanics and more uptime for dps. I need to strive for this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I know it's Echo now but it's still fun to push the limit of me and my co-healers heals.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...pe=damage-done

Still trying to get my Overheal down a bit more

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pPvTy...l&type=healing

Like I said before for those interested in healer DPS it's a great time to really build some synergy for 4.0 ;p

---

That is really amazing. I dont kow how you manage that . Really its Wow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deliciou5

You are genuinely ignoring things people say, and not acknowledging them...only sometime out of context in your own little bubble that only benefits your side.Your behavior can be seen as trolling, i am not even joking.I seen other people get banned for less in various forums than what you done.

---

While you say that I take things out of context so do many posts as well. You cannot answer everything for word limit. You accuse me of ignoring what you say though because I dont mention it? iI know and everyone knows the meta here, it doesnt help to repeat it. I agree several times its optimal or 'best' way. but you could say some are in a bubble if they expect or think everyone can play like that. You also cant deny that people would just like to play casual and enjoy the game. If I can accept that you like to do things the best way,why cant you accept that others want to just enjoy themselves? Doesnt your argument work both ways? Actually you know I still think alot of this is due to being underconfident with cleric. Cant help thinking that sorry. If I could at least ask for one thing would be a different mechanic. With that cant help feeling it potentially can cause wipes, and I apolgise for feeling that way or having that opinion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

That is really amazing. I dont kow how you manage that . Really its Wow

---

It's easy when you have the perfect comp, knowledgeable healers and tanks that contribute to the groups overall dps. The healers (specially xero) did more dps than pugs pre echo, well maybe not more but it's silly that the striking dummy boss can be cheesed very easily.

I haven't been on in 2 weeks due to irl stuff so I haven't touched creator savage with echo but it'll be super friggen faceroll with my static.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormbad

This looks like pretty average dps for a smn.... SCH?!?! HOLY CRAP! LOL nice job! But that group contribution too, wow, it probably helped tremendously that the group can kill it in under 3 minutes. Means less time you have to do mechanics and more uptime for dps. I need to strive for this.

---

Exactly. Our goal was to skip the Faust so we could avoid that mess of moving him around and getting that 2nd Acid Rain. Honestly I can't praise the players in my group enough for how much effort they put out on top of just having a good time with things.

As silly as it may seem, setting our Speed Run goal was just as enjoyable as doing the first clear of A9S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awful

It's easy when you have the perfect comp, knowledgeable healers and tanks that contribute to the groups overall dps. The healers (specially xero) did more dps than pugs pre echo, well maybe not more but it's silly that the striking dummy boss can be cheesed very easily.

I haven't been on in 2 weeks due to irl stuff so I haven't touched creator savage with echo but it'll be super friggen faceroll with my static.

---

It's unbelievable what a group can do when everyone is on the same page. I'm sure you'll enjoy it with Echo too. It opens up new goal windows and makes you feel like a Super Hero of Light!!!

And there I was feeling happy about getting up to 60% dps whilst nigh solo healing A12s =(

Really nice work, striking dummy boss or no, it still hits pretty hard and I suspect it took a good bit of optimising to get both healers dpsing that hard for that long. Defo makes me a bit sad that my group doesn't want to do some speed runs as well =(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

You cannot answer everything for word limit.

---

There is no word limit if you go back and edit your post (the more you know :) )

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feyona

If I can accept that you like to do things the best way,why cant you accept that others want to just enjoy themselves? Doesnt your argument work both ways?

---

It does in most scenarios (as clearly defined many times), but definately not savage raiding content. This is a piece of content where you absolutely cannot be selfish, and must not hold onto your predetermined "enjoyment". You are there to synergise with 7 other people and do the dance right to clear content. If the group has a predetermined way of doing the fight, you adapt, if they say they want cleric, you use cleric. If you don't like that, find another group, it is that simple.

YOU CANNOT FORCE PERSONAL IDEALS ONTO A SAVAGE RAIDING GROUP THAT NO ONE ELSE AGREES WITH. It doesn't matter what they are, that is the cold hard truth of savage raiding, no matter what MMO you are part of, hell no matter what group role you are part of in life. I have had discomforts about phases as a tank, but I go away, research what the party has told me to research, liasoned with the other tank and worked out a strategy that will help the group as a whole beat the fight. Nowhere can I bring my personal preferences into it, I can't push the burden onto someone else because of the way I play.

Like I said before, you are a perfectly fine healer but your savage raid attitude needs to be more accepting. I can imagine you would have an awful time pugging difficult content with that attitude, because it requires a lot of adapting to suit others.

Edit: Also, before you say that I should be more accepting (because this will be your main counter point as irrelevant as it is), I honestly would be accepting of your playstyle within my own static, I've said before that healer DPS doesn't matter until you have seen enrage, but that isn't the point of discussion, the point is that your views of enjoyment don't matter, nor do mine, as long as they conflict with the interests of the group. You must adapt to synergise with your party if you want to raid, that is the way that it is.

I think a lot of the confusion and misunderstanding in this thread results in the switching back and forth between healer dps in casual content, to healer dps in savage content, and back again, and mixing the two. Especially since Feyona brought in her personal experience with learning savage content with a casual group. And there's been a lot of assumptions and more confusion stemming from that.

After a ton of back and forth I think, at last, I get where Feyona is coming from. A lot of people keep coming back in to stir the pot, though.

I think all of us can agree a healer shouldn't be required to dps if they're not comfortable. There's a variety of situations where this can happen: duty finder, party finders where you don't know the other healer or they're just not up for main healing, dungeons where you're new or returning, etc. And savage when someone is learning the fight and new to a group and maybe hasn't learned how best to synergize with their co-healer as well.

That doesn't mean there is no room for improvement or that a person is going to stay at that level in all situations.

When Dun Scaith first came out, I could never seem to fit in dps beyond dots in the opener. Now if I'm running with an FC co-healer, I can do more. When I ran Zurvan EX on my own in party finder, I only found one or two WHM who were good enough and geared enough to give me room to dps most of the fight, but when I ran it with my static I could do full dps on the opener then my static main healer and I split the dps and healing very evenly for the rest of the fight.

We should foster a supportive community, not a hostile one. Encourage dps but don't get mean about it if someone declines. Barring a few examples of people filling their time by dancing or jumping around in circles, most people are just doing their best.

I think we're all on the same page about this, we're just using different words and perspectives to frame our arguments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

After a ton of back and forth I think, at last, I get where Feyona is coming from. A lot of people keep coming back in to stir the pot, though.

---

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault. She is very focused on the fact that cleric should be banned or changed because "elitist players kick people who aren't good enough" when in actual fact she was with a group that was looking for a healer beyond her skill level. It is a sad situation, that I wish could be discussed with less hostility and more listening

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault. She is very focused on the fact that cleric should be banned or changed because "elitist players kick people who aren't good enough" when in actual fact she was with a group that was looking for a healer beyond her skill level. It is a sad situation, that I wish could be discussed with less hostility and more listening

---

I agree, if only she could take full advantage of your advice then there probably wouldn't be any hostility in this thread at all.Alas she cannot really address people properly and doesn't make a lot of sense, she also doesn't seem to read what you say to her a lot of the time, asking questions or trying to make points that has already been addressed a million times.I have been absent from the thread for a while, and after you read a bunch of pages of people being so nice and articulate and illustrating their points so well to her and going out of their way to explain things in the best possible terms over and over, it's bit hard to not to be a bit irritated on how she repeatedly acts like a stonewall and seems like she has not read most of what you said despite the effort and work put into some of these wonderful posts. Maybe you are all right, maybe the pot shouldn't have been stirred, it's a waste of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

That is true, and I have seen her point, but there are still issues with her argument, such as the dismissal of the desires of her raid team, and the fact that she can't accept that being kicked was justified and nobody is at fault.

---

Great summary, it really sums up how I was feeling about the situation and why I went through such lengths to put light on that scenario (although you explain it much better than I could have).

I didn't want any future or current healers that could be reading this thread to feel like there was a ton of pressure to instantly be a Pro at doing healer DPS or get kicked, because that will simply cause an issue to push against the meta and limits the ability to adapt and become a better healer. (some will either quit the healer roll, or be too scared to attempt it for fear of failing initially)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

There is no word limit if you go back and edit your post (the more you know :) )



It does in most scenarios (as clearly defined many times), but definately not savage raiding content. This is a piece of content where you absolutely cannot be selfish, and must not hold onto your predetermined "enjoyment". You are there to synergise with 7 other people and do the dance right to clear content. If the group has a predetermined way of doing the fight, you adapt, if they say they want cleric, you use cleric. If you don't like that, find another group, it is that simple.

YOU CANNOT FORCE PERSONAL IDEALS ONTO A SAVAGE RAIDING GROUP THAT NO ONE ELSE AGREES WITH.

---

well what you say has no bearing on me because I am in a savage team and we are doing it so what is your point? You cant force yours on me either so why state it? Plus I dont or ever have dismissed the needs of my team, where does that idea come from anyway ? Sorry to efit here bu because that guy left the group as well because he didnt like their treatment of me doesnt that tell you something? If it was the case I hadnt tried which was proved I did if you can see that side of things about the reports rubbish or not I still attemted to do what they asked of me and some of you have already said trying is acceptable I just wasnt given the time to learn or given instruction so yes bound to be rubbish according to the meta