Gender locked race?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Indeed - and yet somehow their reveal trailer involved standing around in cute poses and doing flirty emotes while wearing clothing that would never ever suggest “fierce jungle warrior” to someone who hasn’t read the lore.

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I had to go back to the video and watch it again after this comment. I couldn't help but burst out in laughter about how true this is.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Indeed - and yet somehow their reveal trailer involved standing around in cute poses and doing flirty emotes while wearing clothing that would never ever suggest “fierce jungle warrior” to someone who hasn’t read the lore.

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Yeah I felt the same way after seeing the trailer. I’m one of the most Viera obsessed people out there but the trailer was strangely jarring even to me. Seemed way too girly and cutesy, totally opposite to Fran’s stoic nature, which many of us were expecting to see embodied in the Viera. I hope the emotes aren’t just female Au Ra over again, I sometimes feel my soul leaving my body whenever I see how OTT girly they are. Although I do main a Female Roegadyn so I’m biased there!

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Arent we bit too homophobic?

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Imagine being gay as hell and someone assumes you're homophobic.

I simply just don't care to play a feminine male race.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Imagine being gay as hell and someone assumes you're homophobic.

I simply just don't care to play a feminine male race.

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Yeah it’s not a homophobia thing it’s more like a bear4bear thing that subgroup has going on. I rarely see them date outside of that body type. It’s a bear culture thing that I don’t see changing anytime soon. Tbh though a lot of them do see anything outside of their clique as twinks, so I hope we get both the big cat race males and normal looking Viera males to please both sides.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Imagine being gay as hell and someone assumes you're homophobic.

I simply just don't care to play a feminine male race.

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And no one is forcing you to either, buddeh. And what about male Viera seems feminine to you btw? The lore paints them as anything but feminine. Your immature comment earlier makes it seem like you think there's something shameful about wanting to play a feminine male. If you are indeed gay, it baffles me that you would shame someone for not conforming to the norm.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Imagine being gay as hell and someone assumes you're homophobic.

I simply just don't care to play a feminine male race.

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1) Some players clearly want more "cute male" options, and I'd say ffxiv is severly lacking in that department (just like there's very little choice when it comes to tall and fierce looking female races);

2) Male viera would probably be tall and fierce anyway, so not sure where your rant is coming from.

Again, lore is not a justification for anything in ffxiv world. Most jobs should be pretty rare anyway. There should be only 1 DRG, 1 BLM, 1 WHM ecc. according to the lore. And lore can easily be changed by the devs to allow for the possibility of having more gameplay options. In this particular case, they can even come up with something as bold as "the woods told the viera (both male and female) to take up arms and defend their land".

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Originally Posted by Yasminou

For au ra, in this example, whether the player character is male or female, the output will always be l'Ao ra so there is no need to check the gender. But if the output were pretty/handsome au ra, it would have been distinguished into le bel ao ra / la belle ao ra.

However, even if Viera and the other race are genderlocked, we could imagine that in the future, they will not. Therefore, putting the code to distinguish the output now is a good way to prevent any bug later after the implementation of their other gender.

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Ah- I see now. I understood that the l'Ao Ra was a grammatical thing, but I can wrap my brain around it fully now with some sleep since I made the assumption they were checking [gender] [race] rather than other way around (for some reason). I think it's still odd though, that they wouldn't just put one if there weren't two genders or plans to make the other. Copy and pasting code for two genders when there really is going to be just one technically can be done, but it seems awful sloppy.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

While I'm more worried now, I'm still somewhat hoping/wishing we get more/better news come JP Fan Fest... in the worst case, that the devs are aware of and ready for the backlash for months or years.

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My galaxy brain idea is that this localization thing was on purpose to try and quell the anger, if only slightly. It did work a little for me. Not much though.

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Another thought I just had, is JP is the worst place to announce a bestial race. JP loves their cute races more than NA and EU. Maybe they will be more polite in person and on the forums, but JP twitter/ 2ch is absolutely vicious. I cannot imagine it will go over well.

I can hold onto whatever little scraps I can to try to keep my sinking heart afloat. :C

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Imagine being gay as hell and someone assumes you're homophobic.

I simply just don't care to play a feminine male race.

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Myth: I'm gay and therefore can not be homophobic.

Reality: There's homophobia even inside the gay community, mocking something over percieved "feminity" is one example.

On topic: While I'm more worried now, I'm still somewhat hoping/wishing we get more/better news come JP Fan Fest... in the worst case, that the devs are aware of and ready for the backlash for months or years.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

1) Some players clearly want more "cute male" options, and I'd say ffxiv is severly lacking in that department (just like there's very little choice when it comes to tall and fierce looking female races);

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https://i.gyazo.com/56fdec92c45e7042...3d71a54cdc.png
http://i.imgur.com/qCmaBtd.jpg
https://scontent-lax3-1.cdninstagram...ninstagram.com
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...7c80b39743.jpg

so the count goes

cute:
lala without beards, 1 baby face per male race, catboys in pink clothes, a vanilla looking midlander with freckles

manly:
au ra (sans face 3), roes, highlanders, 1 old/rough face per male race, lalas with beards (?)

somewhere in the nebulous inbetween:
2 elezen faces, catboys that aren’t in pink clothes, vanilla looking midlanders without freckles

Looks like blufever was right again if this pans out. I doubt we're getting two races with both genders, and would have preferred just getting male viera over whatever a hrothgar is if they do both end up mono gendered, but no point in getting too worked up over datamining. Just a month and a half or so to go and we'll know for sure.

Keep in mind that April Fools is a possibility too.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

Keep in mind that April Fools is a possibility too.

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I doubt they'd put Hrothgar in the code just for an april fools day joke. Also, datamining spoiled Samurai before its reveal in the last round of fanfests, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was real.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Besides. Male Miqo'te, Raen, and Duskwight are rare too. Pitiful excuse.

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Just want to clear one thing up with this. Raen are not rare in the slightest. Raen have fully integrated into Doman and Hingan societies, the Raen of Sui no Sato are an anomoly and not the only Raen in existence.

As for the gender locked thing. While I have no horse in this race I'd hope for all involved that this means we get both genders of both races. On the other hand I remain skeptical. Adding races is a lot of work, and it only gets worse as more gear gets added because they have to model every set to that race even if they use the same basic skeleton as other races. In addition the way they handled the announcement of Viera just remains circumspect. The lack of any mention of male viera at all is just a bit off putting and while one could surmise that Yoshi danced around questions to avoid spoiling their reveal in japan it can also go the other way too. Personally I'd think it stupid not to add both genders, but this is SE's product and Viera is not a FF14 creation and is specific to one FF designer. Japanese Copyright laws are screwy.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Just want to clear one thing up with this. Raen are not rare in the slightest. Raen have fully integrated into Doman and Hingan societies, the Raen of Sui no Sato are an anomoly and not the only Raen in existence.

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iirc the 1st lorebook says that culturally Raen have assimilated but tend to live in isolated villages hidden away in Othard's mountains. The majority of Raen being fully integrated within larger mixed cities is either a retcon or a goof.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Just want to clear one thing up with this. Raen are not rare in the slightest. Raen have fully integrated into Doman and Hingan societies, the Raen of Sui no Sato are an anomoly and not the only Raen in existence.

As for the gender locked thing. While I have no horse in this race I'd hope for all involved that this means we get both genders of both races. On the other hand I remain skeptical. Adding races is a lot of work, and it only gets worse as more gear gets added because they have to model every set to that race even if they use the same basic skeleton as other races. In addition the way they handled the announcement of Viera just remains circumspect. The lack of any mention of male viera at all is just a bit off putting and while one could surmise that Yoshi danced around questions to avoid spoiling their reveal in japan it can also go the other way too. Personally I'd think it stupid not to add both genders, but this is SE's product and Viera is not a FF14 creation and is specific to one FF designer. Japanese Copyright laws are screwy.

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Raen aren't as 'wow rare!' as Viera/Male Miqo, but they are mentioned as making up only 10% of the population of Hingashi and Doma. So, still pretty damn uncommon. That doesn't stop a good portion of the player base from being pale lizert girls.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

iirc the 1st lorebook says that culturally Raen have assimilated but tend to live in isolated villages hidden away in Othard's mountains. The majority of Raen being fully integrated within larger mixed cities is either a retcon or a goof.

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That is incorrect. Culture entry for Raen in the first Lorebook: 'The Raen have fully assimilated to the cultures of Doma and Hingashi, and live faithfully according to the regions' traditions. Perhaps owing to their heritage and the status they gained in the service of their warlords, they place particular importance on hierarchy and the master-servant relationship.'

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

That is incorrect. Culture entry for Raen in the first Lorebook: 'The Raen have fully assimilated to the cultures of Doma and Hingashi, and live faithfully according to the regions' traditions. Perhaps owing to their heritage and the status they gained in the service of their warlords, they place particular importance on hierarchy and the master-servant relationship.'

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Sorry, it's actually from the character creator/naming convention page in the lore fourm:

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Auri creation myth tells of a Dawn Father and a Dusk Mother from whom all Au Ra are descended. The Raen believe their veins to run thick with the blood of the former─their brilliant white scales and iron wills serving as proof of this divine lineage.

Unlike their sister clan, the Xaela, who bloody the land with endless tribal conflict, the Raen have embraced a life of tranquility and solitude, long abandoning the nomadic lifestyle of their ancestors to settle the deep valleys of Othard's mountainous eastern reaches. Only on rare occasions will one emerge from the valley mists to seek adventure in realms afar.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Raen aren't as 'wow rare!' as Viera/Male Miqo/Duskwight, but they are mentioned as making up only 10% of the population of Hingashi and Doma. So, still pretty damn uncommon. That doesn't stop a good portion of the player base from being pale lizert girls.

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Comparing Raen to Male Viera and Male Miqo'te in terms of lore, though, is disingenuous at best. There is a difference of they are spread out between two countries and thus make up a small part of them, and only 2 out of ten children are born male. Again I'm not against Male Viera being a thing at all, but comparing them to other things that aren't any where in the same universe as rare as them is a stretch. It should just be focused on the fact that the PC is /the/ WoL and the only cannon character which then justifies us being in lore the only Male Viera running around the world slaying primals.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Sorry, it's actually from the character creator/naming convention page in the lore fourm:

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Then based on that they went back and retconned the character generator as I doubt Hingashi counts as the deep valleys of Othard's mountainous eastern reaches.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

so the count goes

cute:
lala without beards, 1 baby face per male race, catboys in pink clothes, a vanilla looking midlander with freckles

manly:
au ra (sans face 3), roes, highlanders, 1 old/rough face per male race, lalas with beards (?)

somewhere in the nebulous inbetween:
2 elezen faces, catboys that aren’t in pink clothes, vanilla looking midlanders without freckles

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Bestial option that's less human looking but still within the realm of plausible as a player race option: Zero

Sounds like some actual diversity there.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Bestial option that's less human looking but still within the realm of plausible as a player race option: Zero

Sounds like some actual diversity there.

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The argument was that we have too many manly/cutesy archetypes. A beastly face on a lala body would deliver diversity. A lala face on a beastly body would also lol

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Raen aren't as 'wow rare!' as Viera/Male Miqo, but they are mentioned as making up only 10% of the population of Hingashi and Doma. So, still pretty damn uncommon. That doesn't stop a good portion of the player base from being pale lizert girls.

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Not as uncommon as some people would like to believe, though.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The argument was that we have too many manly/cutesy archetypes. A beastly face on a lala body would deliver diversity. A lala face on a beastly body would also lol

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...4796030634.png

Thank you for that horrible, horrible mental image of godless abominations of frankenfells.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Myth: I'm gay and therefore can not be X.

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Not liking a visual doesn't mean he doesn't like men :3. He could like men in only shades of violently pure purples all other presentations annoy him, this would not make him phobic it says he has a type (like most people of any orientation have). You may say it's a bit selfish to hope a visual type isn't present in the game because one doesn't like it but its not out of fear of someone's orientation that they hoped it wouldn't be in game. Its not who they are that's the issue its how they appear, like you can't say I have prejudice against comedies just because I refuse to watch a 4 hour one.. or even if I mocked it for the duration while I went to watch another comedy I love (comedy is not the issue, time was).

Basically if we use such words so loosely only those who have no preferences to anything at all would be clear of any powerful negative descriptions, giant walking blobs of tofu with no opinions for the win (tofu because of flavorless, not color lol). Anyway.. I think people use that word too lightly, like many other -isms and -ists. With the whole social media thing and the watering down of words, at least insults at each other, communication feels a bit meh some days. Just my opinion at least lol.

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Originally Posted by Anyan

If you are indeed gay, it baffles me that you would shame someone for not conforming to the norm.

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I think ideally one would not think themselves abnormal and thus it doesn't mean they would go out of the way to accept other abnormal things. If they're in a comfortable position or desiring one that seems normal then of course they accept what is normal to themselves and not look for non-conformists.. or in other words in my experience those who are different view of normal tend to shift their whole world view to that, what is abnormal or normal is not greater or smaller.. its just different. Like I see a lot of hate from some of communities that tout how abnormal they are and thus it must mean they're accepting, but it certainly confuses me that acceptance means wading into the group feels like you're an undesired outcast - so perhaps I'm abnormal and they're only accepting what's normal to them still. Restated, abnormal is abnormal and normal is normal, even for those you think are abnormal they have a normal ;).

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Originally Posted by Corue

This exact post nas suddenly made me lose all interest in discussion since I've realised everyone's getting incredibly spiteful and petty over what amounts to a height change and some different animations.
I'm waiting until Fanfest before I say anything else.

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While I'm a bit excited I might get literally the race type I've been hoping for, I want you to know I'm not cheering for you not to have yours. Don't let it ruin your day mate :). I agree though that we've ran on a lot of air already so we probably /have/ to wait till fanfest before we get anything more. Maybe when all comes out, we'll all be screaming hype :). The whole recent french localization leak (bug really) was just some wild goof so we still need a lot more enough lol, we'll see though - maybe this is some master plan leak system for hype trickling. What's nice about unofficial leaks (like the lion/dancer bit was) is they're not bound to them, could even be testing responses to concepts they haven't decided on yet.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Another thought I just had, is JP is the worst place to announce a bestial race. JP loves their cute races more than NA and EU. Maybe they will be more polite in person and on the forums, but JP twitter/ 2ch is absolutely vicious. I cannot imagine it will go over well.

I can hold onto whatever little scraps I can to try to keep my sinking heart afloat. :C

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Could be that they believe the eastern audience would be less vocal about a genderlock though. Imagine western response to "no male viera, but we have another race also genderlocked" vs eastern. We're already more rowdy crowd, on top of that the idea of genderlocking is more foreign to us. Just a thought though, not saying that's why (I have no idea what to actually expect from FanFest lol).

I don't mean to veer to much into the whole gay thing, but whilst I'm not into the bara/bear stuff, I also find it vexing when being gay is frequently pushed as/conflated with being effeminate or flamboyant. I consider myself to be more on the masculine side, and I prefer guys along these lines too.

I quite like au ra and midlanders (and to an extent, highlanders, elezen and catmen, but less so) because I can design them to look masculine and attractive, without veering into the bearish or hyper-masculine category.

Also, what Shougun said.

Regarding this new race, I think the GLD quest text is certainly a stronger hint that they may be coming. If they're too bearish/bara, I'll probably not touch them and just sit out until Viera males are hopefully added. If they look like Byakko, though, I might consider playing one.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

Comparing Raen to Male Viera and Male Miqo'te in terms of lore, though, is disingenuous at best. There is a difference of they are spread out between two countries and thus make up a small part of them, and only 2 out of ten children are born male. Again I'm not against Male Viera being a thing at all, but comparing them to other things that aren't any where in the same universe as rare as them is a stretch. It should just be focused on the fact that the PC is /the/ WoL and the only cannon character which then justifies us being in lore the only Male Viera running around the world slaying primals.



Then based on that they went back and retconned the character generator as I doubt Hingashi counts as the deep valleys of Othard's mountainous eastern reaches.

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I don't know why you are arguing with me if you... agree? It's an argument against people that are cherry picking to exclude male Viera because of lore, but ignoring all instances of rarity or low population elsewhere ranging all the way from WHM to Duskwight/Raen. Raen are still canonically low pop and disrupt these people who think that player characters reflect actual lore-based demographics.

It really DOES just boil down to we're the only person who matters in the context of the story, so we could be a Qiqirn or a Mamool Ja for all intents and purposes.

On the topic of why people are taking "au ra" to be neutral in French, it's not so much "l'Ao ra" but "mon Ao ra" which is telling. All the other races are addressed as "ma" if the character is female.

However, I would not put much weight on this. If the game runs a separate check for inserting correctly gendered nouns etc., it doesn't really matter whether feminine articles/possessives are used or whether Au ra are, for whatever reason, treated as a neutral gender when the race is referred to. It sets no binding precedent on SE, either, to adopt it for future races.

Here's another tidbit:

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Hrothgar, also rendered Hrōðgār, is an Old English form attested in Beowulf and Widsith, the earliest sources to mention the character. In non-English sources, the name appears in more or less corresponding Old Icelandic, Old Danish, and Latinized versions. He appears as Hróarr, Hroar, etc., in sagas and poetry, and as Ro or Roe in the Danish Latin chronicles. The form Hrōðgār is thought to have derived from the proto-Norse *Hrōþigaizaz[3] "famous spear", i.e. Roger. However, the corresponding Old Norse name Hróarr and its variations are not derived from *Hrōþigaizaz, but from the very close names *Hrōþiwarjaz "famous defender" or *Hrōþiharjaz "famous warrior". These two names, both appearing as Hróarr in Scandinavia, did not have any corresponding Old English form, and so Hrōðgār was their closest equivalent.[4]

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From the fount of all knowledge itself. (/s)

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I quite like au ra and midlanders (and to an extent, highlanders, elezen and catmen, but less so) because I can design them to look masculine and attractive, without veering into the bearish or hyper-masculine category.
...
Regarding this new race, I think the GLD quest text is certainly a stronger hint that they may be coming. If they're too bearish/bara, I'll probably not touch them and just sit out until Viera males are hopefully added. If they look like Byakko, though, I might consider playing one.

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I'm in the same boat. Au Ra males are my favorite guys: muscular without being bulky, with faces that can be cute (face 1, 3), handsome (face 1, 2), or rougher (face 2, 4). While I would not mind a Byakko-inspired race at all, I'd imagine those wanting something more Ronso would be miffed. He's got a sexy body but his face is far from beastly.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Thank you for that horrible, horrible mental image of godless abominations of frankenfells.

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http://i68.tinypic.com/2rz98o9.png

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Here's another tidbit:



From the fount of all knowledge itself. (/s)

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Hot diddle, relates to famous spear work too haha. Mountain, cold, spear, lion.

OI OI, GWEN, GWEN - What race does that sound like?

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

xD Shougun, it's not Ronso!

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OH, RoooNNNsssssUUUOOOO!?!?!?!?!

Hahaha <3 :D


I play of course, the fact it doesn't use the name like Viera means they're probably going to toy with the imagery a bit (iirc Ronso in French is still Ronso, so this race is new). But those references.. they just keep giving XD.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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His preference is clear as day. Ragging on people who want feminine bunnies is not a preference, however. This is especially so when you consider he was wanting to keep the playability limited based on lore, something the rest of the races already ignore anyways. I'm not saying he's homophobic, but you can certainly voice your concerns without bashing a certain group of people.

And yes, gay people can indeed be homophobic. It certainly does tend to be the masc4masc/bara leaning gay guys who insult anything remotely feminine. See: "I'm gay because I like guys not girls" which is an incredibly homophobic remark, which refers to feminine men as girls. As if there's anything wrong with behaving like a girl or that it makes you any less gay and a man.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

His preference is clear as day. Ragging on people who want feminine bunnies is not a preference, however. This is especially so when you consider he was wanting to keep the playability limited based on lore, something the rest of the races already ignore anyways. I'm not saying he's homophobic, but you can certainly voice your concerns without bashing a certain group of people.

And yes, gay people can indeed be homophobic. It certainly does tend to be the masc4masc/bara leaning gay guys who insult anything remotely feminine. See: "I'm gay because I like guys not girls" which is an incredibly homophobic remark, which refers to feminine men as girls. As if there's anything wrong with behaving like a girl or that it makes you any less gay and a man.

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Sounds more like a dislike of feminine men than homophobia, as such.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

If they're too bearish/bara, I'll probably not touch them and just sit out until Viera males are hopefully added. If they look like Byakko, though, I might consider playing one.

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That's my current stance as well.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The argument was that we have too many manly/cutesy archetypes. A beastly face on a lala body would deliver diversity. A lala face on a beastly body would also lol

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

Thank you for that horrible, horrible mental image of godless abominations of frankenfells.

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Id probably fantasia that for fun.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Sounds more like a dislike of feminine men than homophobia, as such.

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Often this is the way straight people's homophobia is. They dislike the mannerisms of feminine men. It's homophobic for them, it's homophobic for us gays. Regardless, you have no reason to "dislike" feminine men. If it was not homophobic, it would still be bad... What did they do to make you dislike them? It's one thing to have preferences, but "disliking" them implies more than a preference.

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

His preference is clear as day. Ragging on people who want feminine bunnies is not a preference, however. This is especially so when you consider he was wanting to keep the playability limited based on lore, something the rest of the races already ignore anyways. I'm not saying he's homophobic, but you can certainly voice your concerns without bashing a certain group of people.

And yes, gay people can indeed be homophobic. It certainly does tend to be the masc4masc/bara leaning gay guys who insult anything remotely feminine. See: "I'm gay because I like guys not girls" which is an incredibly homophobic remark, which refers to feminine men as girls. As if there's anything wrong with behaving like a girl or that it makes you any less gay and a man.

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I wasn't saying he was right or wrong to rag on (your words) people for their preference, I was just saying the word doesn't really meet the action. Referring to men who are feminine like they are women is not a fear of orientation, if anything it would be a reference to gender prejudice but that's a bit limp in that he could love women he just doesn't like to.. love them in that way ;). And I would really disagree that those two being separate is enough type of prejudice to garner the use of that gender based word (because if that's true then anyone who doesn't like everything is one).

Was not arguing he was being nice or not, was arguing the word seems to lose all meaning if it's used so loosely. Not a very useful word if it just basically means "said or did something that was construed as vaguely mean to someone who just happened to be a certain way". Then any and every action deemed negative must be a phobic action, which I don't agree with.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Sounds more like a dislike of feminine men than homophobia, as such.

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^

Also unless we can keep this about rabbits I'm thinking this should be our last row on the topic, at least for me - feels a bit straying (even if it started about feminine rabbits).

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Originally Posted by Tabbs

Often this is the way straight people's homophobia is. They dislike the mannerisms of feminine men. It's homophobic for them, it's homophobic for us gays. Regardless, you have no reason to "dislike" feminine men. If it was not homophobic, it would still be bad... What did they do to make you dislike them? It's one thing to have preferences, but "disliking" them implies more than a preference.

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His reasons are his own to have/justify. In the end, a dislike is just a preference against, as opposed to in favour of, something. And when it comes to playable races, he may just want the range of bara/hyper-masculine options expanded. Given the range of customisability SE offers when adding a race, it's pretty much going to fit a given archetype and little else besides. They've only violated this pattern for one race. As much as I'd like for the au ra subraces to be dimorphous, they probably won't be, and that's assuming they even add the males!

FWIW, my own preference would be along the lines of the races I mentioned in my earlier post. I'm pretty much selfishly hoping for that as opposed to overly twinky/feminine or overly bearish/masculine.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Also unless we can keep this about rabbits I'm thinking this should be our last row on the topic, at least for me - feels a bit straying (even if it started about feminine rabbits).

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Agreed.

The rabbits in the art aren't even particularly feminine so there was no reason for the thread to go this way anywho lol

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The rabbits in the art aren't even particularly feminine so there was no reason for the thread to go this way anywho lol

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I'm not so secretly in favour of something like this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyegp4vVAAAI_kz.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...478&height=676

It's not a far cry from the older concept art.

https://i.imgur.com/zHmTSj9.jpg

I am a femo'te Bro.
I really want more sexy male bunnies rather than cute..
otherwise ill stay adorable and fem.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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I wasn't arguing that he was homophobic, dude. I specifically said "I'm not saying he's homophobic". I was saying he didn't need to say it the way he did.

That aside, you're taking the definition too literally. Sure the definition implies "fear of gay people", but not every action has to be done out of fear of gay people to be homophobic. Straight people aren't fearful of gay people, it's quite the other way around. It's about said "dislike" and hatred. A dislike of a certain type of gay men is homophobia, whether you're gay or not. Edit: A preference is saying "I don't prefer feminine men" not "I don't like feminine men". One is much more hostile, especially when compared to homophobia.

Edit: and yes, we probably shouldn't discuss this further for sake of the topic.