We need more ways to make gold in this game.

I agree with the OP. there needs to be some way to make money once you hit 50, becouse the quest gil that most players are living on will quicky dry up i know some who are broke and hae no idea what to do now.

Learn to play the Market Wards. There's a history button for them for a reason. Buy low, sell high, pay attention to how many items are selling/day per listing.

There's been a few items that people have thrown up at suggested value (which is usually only a few Gil) and I turned it around into 3k+ profit for myself. For example (blanking on the exact name) Moss-something or something-moss Scale was selling for 45k the other day, saw one for 20k, sniped it, put it back up for 39k. It's easy to make money if you pay attention to what's going on in the markets. ^^

And as others have said, items from dungeons (if you can get one or a few) generally sell well.

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Originally Posted by Sentinel

I have no idea what game the OP is playing. As a lvl 42 tank, I have never come across a 2.5k repair bill for doing a dungeon, and yes, I have had failed dungeons with 6+ wipes etc before the timer ran out.

I can go through the entire list item by item, but its not worth my time. As a lvl 42 tank, I can confidently say, you don't lose money by doing dungeons or FATEs or any other activity, the amount of Gil you gain will easily offset it.

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Wiping is not what causes repairs to be more expensive. It would seem it is based on how much exp you gain. That is where the problem is. At level 50 in my AF gear it costs about 6k to repair broken gear.

I don't think any of you get what the OP is saying. He is saying there is no good way to get more money into the economy. Eventually all if the gil will be eaten up by gil sinks like the market and repairs and there is no way to replenish it. People need to l2read and comprehend. You lose gil while doing fates in the level 46+ zones. There is one in particular that will actually almost break all of your gear which is a 1k repair bill if you use lower level gear and you gain like 150 gil for it.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

I dont know personally I enjoy botany (but then I enjoy grinding in most games) and while it doesnt sell for much individually when you spend an hour and make enough gil off an NPC to sustain a day of dungeoning its really not that hard to see as a viable option

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Pretty much every resource I've looked at that I've logged up has sold for 1 gil... maybe 2. So if you're telling me that you can harvest 2000-4000 items in an hour... I think you need to share your secrets to gathering.

Edit: Based on Riyo's post and assuming you can make 1800 gil an hour you're still looking at 2-3 hours DAILY spent gathering purely to cover repair costs and nothing else, no teleports or airship. It's still not a sustainable model. Don't forget that repair costs will only increase and gear level increases.

It's amazing to me how many people don't understand the core concept of this argument. If you mentioned the market wards as a way to earn gil in this argument, you sir are a moron.

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Originally Posted by valhalla

Its not a big deal because you will ultimately be forced to change to a more productive strategy once you run out of gil.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

Anyone else find it amusing when anyone comes up with a decent rebuttle to an OP in most threads they skip past it and comment on everyone elses posts rather than discuss the viability of a successful presented option ? ^^ will repost in case you missed it

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Originally Posted by nullzy

For those who have a standard subscription (8 characters per world), you could always create a second character on the same server and play through the game again and again to make 200k gil each time. Once you've made the gil, store it in your FC chest, delete the character, reroll, and play again. Not something I would personally do though.

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Nullzy and Yurimi, good suggestions, and Val, good advice, however, what the 3 of you dont take into account is that the health of the economy is tied to the entire playerbase and how they chose to earn and spend money, its all good to say, reroll and lvl another toon, or sell crafting mats to and NPC or even Vals comment of change your Stratagy to be more productive, the simple fact is although some players may do these things, the majority wont, they like to dungeon crawl, sell things on AH and TP everywhere, they dont like to feel forced into not doing what they like simply to generate enough revenue to actually play the game the way they want.

now i am not saying that is the correct attitude, but its just the way it is, many people cannot play everyday, so they cannot afford 1 or 2 gil farming days per week simply to play the way they want on the other days, they want to log in, do dungeons etc etc and not feel like they have to withhold from doing it, simply to go farm gil elsewhere.

I dont think huge amounts of gil should be thrown at people for doing dungeons etc but as it is one of the most popular ways to spend time in game then you should at least be able to break even or make a very small profit from an average run, or even a small loss that can be recuperated elsewhere without having to literally go farm for a couple of hours just to make back the gold you lost.... Just my opinion

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Originally Posted by Riyo

So, we should spend however long it takes to mine one stack of mythril ore(example) to vendor it for right at 800 gil. I'm gonna guess it will take roughly 15-20 minutes to farm that one stack to make 800 gil. Cut out the probably 200 gil repair(maybe more or less as that is lvl 35 ore) for that time and you are left with 600 gil for 20ish minutes of work.

Sounds like a horrible idea and more of a gil and time sink than any other idea.

Also, most people don't have time to gather for a couple hours a day just to afford a few dungeon run repairs. Most people have time to run one or two dungeons a day, in which your plan would require them to farm one day and then run dungeons the next.

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or if like most "casual" (I use quotes because I dont consider myself nearly hardcore) you tend to fall into the DPS role you could just do this as you wait your 30-45mins to get into the dungeon make 1200 gil which is more than my Lv. 50 repair costs are per dungeon

Didn't SE say they wanted to add daily quests? If those give the allagan coins (as most quests do) then that right there is a viable way to keep bringing in money into the economy.
And you are correct Meden, I am not the smartest person. I'm just trying to offer advice here.

I think they had way too much gil generate method in the old 1.0, so now they don't want to make the same mistake. That only cause a lot of inflation and make money has no value. Now they are going to make sure to not have the same mistake so the gil will value bigger.

I actually read through all of the pages of this thread, quite interesting. Also sad how many people are missing the point of personal vs server wealth, despite how much it's been repeated.

That being said, I think one good way of remedying it would be adding guildhests or just repeatable quests to dungeons that would reward a decent amount of gil, or the allegen pieces at the very least. This would also promote more dungeon running in lower levels as opposed to fate spamming.

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Originally Posted by Gags

A simple solution would be to add higher Gil rewards from Fates and Leves. Especially fates, the amount you get for high level fates is ridiculously low.

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No, please no. There is no skill involved in 99% of the fates. Pouring gil into the economy via zerging can never be a good thing in my opinion.

why dark matter is not dropping in abundance in dungeons or gil in dungeons for clears is anyones guess but it baffles me its just poor design. I have a way of making gil right now but i assure u in 3 weeks top that will have tanked and ill be back to running crappy long boring tedious leves that give almost all no reward for the effort put in. I cant use my 44cul for anything because food just sucks and no one is using it. If tin pices etc drop in dungeon chests they should be distributed evenly not in most cases where one person can end up w/ all the $$$loot makes no damn sense. Pretty soon [people will be complaining in masses that dungeon drops are just bogus and so are primal drops because everyone puts in effort in a pt and one person if theyre lucky might gain something. this token system we got ??? they didnt mention to anyone that it would only apply to endgame dungeons and only to a very limited amount of gear that can be bettered w/ simple crafted gear.

As much of a non-factor as this is in being a solution to the problem, if you've ever done tradecraft you'll notice that turning in a HQ item will return you a tremendous amount of gil. I recall getting around 1k gil for turning in HQ 25 ltw leves in beta 3. I would assume that they are keeping their eyes on the gil on the servers. Possibly adding some dailies that reward Allagan pieces later on?

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Originally Posted by Meden123

It's amazing to me how many people don't understand the core concept of this argument. If you mentioned the market wards as a way to earn gil in this argument, you sir are a moron.

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Right. I'm a derp because I take advantage of the markets to make a profit to payoff what I need.

I get what you're saying. More money out of the system than into it, but at the same time if you're not taking advantage of every aspect, there's no one to blame but yourself. Will the system need to change eventually? Yes. When quests have mostly dried up and fewer new people are coming in, but in all honesty it's not that bad right now.

At least 'I' don't think it is. >.>

It's the same as the real world those making the gil will eventually get what they want and not have a reason to spend it. That gil dies... if you can't generate gil to maintain basic things eventually the game dies as it is driven by gil sinks that remove money at a disproportionate amount with what is coming in.

NPC sales don't generate much nor does anything else.

Let's say for instance that each server has a max capacity to generate in all quests 100 mill gil as that money is spent where is more coming from?

NPC sales?
Leves?
Dungeons?
GC Quests?

They will have to eventually do a dailies system so players can earn gil.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Right. I'm a derp because I take advantage of the markets to make a profit to payoff what I need.

I get what you're saying. More money out of the system than into it, but at the same time if you're not taking advantage of every aspect, there's no one to blame but yourself. Will the system need to change eventually? Yes. When quests have mostly dried up and fewer new people are coming in, but in all honesty it's not that bad right now.

At least 'I' don't think it is. >.>

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No, you're not a derp because you do something that everyone with a half of a brain is doing. That makes you mediocre, at best. You're a derp because your argument has nothing to do with the problem that the OP has brought to light.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Right. I'm a derp because I take advantage of the markets to make a profit to payoff what I need.

I get what you're saying. More money out of the system than into it, but at the same time if you're not taking advantage of every aspect, there's no one to blame but yourself. Will the system need to change eventually? Yes. When quests have mostly dried up and fewer new people are coming in, but in all honesty it's not that bad right now.

At least 'I' don't think it is. >.>

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No one said they weren't using the AH and everything at their disposal to make gil. I have made plenty off the AH. That doesn't mean that we can't see the overall issues going on.

No one in here is asking for help making money and half the posts here are people trying to give suggestions on how to do that.

Half the people in this thread to not understand that selling on the AH is not generating money, or a "gil fountain" vs using air ships and teleports(gil sinks). AH is NOT a way to generate money in the regard we are talking about.

ok there seems to be a bit of a confusion (well two confusions) first:
many people confusing personal money with global economy...this has been addressed so i will simply note it here,
the second: people confusing MONEY with WEALTH.
gil can be used to buy things, ok we all get this concept. but the thing you are buying is the point, not the gil. so for instance DoL and DoH are constantly generating WEALTH (i have HQ everything for instance and that is stuff i didn't have to buy, and were they not bound i could conceivably sell for gil, it is wealth) though not MONEY.
now if players could do everything there would be no problems, player would give player money for wealth AH would take some money out of the economy, the economy would decrease in overall money driving the cost of goods down and the same amount of wealth would get moved around.
the main complication happens when NPCs with their fixed amount of costs enter into the equations. no mater how the economy goes dark mater costs the same, and things the NPC sell remains the same. when it takes too much to keep your character up it's not worth it to generate wealth into the economy so people don't.
what can be done:
one: make dark mater mine-able and allow users to offer repair services. this is a source of wealth, it is a service which can be exchanged for goods independent of gill.
two: let people sell goods on the market that they have bound to. this adds fungibility to this source of wealth and encourages resell/hand-me-down
three: allow barter on the AH.

Wow, its really sad how dumb some of you people are. Sorry I don't mean to be rube but some of you are trolling away but you are in fact morons. Yes, individuals can make a lot of money right now in the market, but the profit is coming at a loss to the customer and an overall loss of total GIL in the world due to tax. The customer has little or no legit way to recoup what they are spending right now on the market, and once they finish the main story its GG. The people who spent all of their story GIL are eventually going to be broke as frack due to tele and repair costs. If the economy stays the way it is now, the people who made all the money in the market will eventually be broke too it will just take a lot longer. How is that not a broken system?

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

Right. I'm a derp because I take advantage of the markets to make a profit to payoff what I need.

I get what you're saying. More money out of the system than into it, but at the same time if you're not taking advantage of every aspect, there's no one to blame but yourself. Will the system need to change eventually? Yes. When quests have mostly dried up and fewer new people are coming in, but in all honesty it's not that bad right now.

At least 'I' don't think it is. >.>

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He is not calling anyone a derp/scrub/noob for playing the market to increase their own wealth, if you think he is, then sorry you are missing the point of his comment and of this whole thread, he is stating that people who somehow think their personal wealth gained from other players somehow mean there isnt a problem with the Gil generation into and out of the economy are wrong and clearly dont understand how an economy actually works...therefore making thier posts completely irrelevant to the topic at hand in this thread

personal wealth is great for you /clap you can play the market

however due to bad design (the way it stands right now) the playerbase as a whole is losing Gil hand over fist back into the server compared to what they are making from the server and this is the problem,

your personal wealth may alleviate the pressure from YOU for a while, but it has no bearing on the health of the economy/playerbase as a whole, infact playing the market the way you do, using the AH/Market system, you are actually taking money out of the economy each time you use it to make a sale.

is anyone telling you to stop...no its not your fault the system is the way it is...however, the way the economy works right now, is broken, and needs attention.

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Originally Posted by Merix

It requires dark matter 3 which costs 350 gil per peice to repair. Its more expensive than vendor repairs.

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You can buy dark matter from a grand company for company seals and its dark matter 5 for lvl 50 gear, op if you make all the craft process you wont lose gil, like gathering then crafting then selling, you can make also the materia for sell

Any long time MMO player has to notice from the beginning levels that there is a Gil problem with the game.

I agree that this is a problem we are facing. Especially on the non-legacy servers. However, I can't blame the system entirely. Currently, people are crafting/gathering and selling items via market board as their main source of income. If this is the way things stay, you can be sure that the economy will dry up. It is my personal belief that we can resolve this little epidemic ourselves though, and once it becomes a noticeable problem, we probably will. There are other avenues of income. Most aren't hugely profitable though. Lately, I have been doing tradecraft leves because my current level in Carpenter doesn't afford me a lot to sell for profit. I still make some decent money. It gets me by and I end the day with more than I spent. Anyhow, the point is this is probably what we'll have to resort to once things get bad, at least I think so. If it does, we'll at least know we're generating new money rather than shuffling it around with a 5% loss.

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Originally Posted by tuseroni

one: make dark mater mine-able and allow users to offer repair services. this is a source of wealth, it is a service which can be exchanged for goods independent of gill.

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this I can agree with 100% I would love to be able to farm dark matter and charge a below NPC cost for repairs for a much more reasonable ammount

Stop using gil sinks, stop dieing so your gear is not damaged as much. Sadly with such vast amounts of new players and presumably gil sellers all constantly making new characters just to get gil into the system, you just have to learn how to get it from them. I have sold over 50 stacks of Chicken egss at 5-10k a piece since release. I am not worried.

I have over 25k in Gil. And I even abuse the teleport skill constantly. I don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

FATEs, guildleves, and dungeons produce a tremendous amount of gil into the economy. You make far more per day doing them than you spend on repairs and the like.

People claiming to lose 2500g to repairs in crappy low lvl gear after 1 dungeon are full of shit. In blues and high lvl greens at lvl 50, it barely costs that much when my gear is completely broken after a good run of FATE grinds.

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I have not all but several pieces of Darklight + Ifrit Cane and green from AK - when my gear gets to 50% my repair bill is 2750 .... my gil is quickly sinking at a rapid pace - now since I am doing my relic etc etc endgame content - 2750 is like every 30-1hour of play time. It is quite ridiculously.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

this I can agree with 100% I would love to be able to farm dark matter and charge a below NPC cost for repairs for a much more reasonable ammount

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I agree this is a good idea, though there are some issues.

-Repair costs are dynamic, meaning the price changes on the wear and tear sustained instead of the fixed price of 1.0. how would the market establish a fair price when it is now the static number?

-Repairing gear by the player is something that needs to be expanded further, as it is, I'm not even sure its cost effective.

It just means 1 gil will be worth a lot more than you think. This isn't like WoWs economy where you sell shit for 9 billion gold and its considered "a fair deal". A good rare item will prob be considered a fair price around like 200k in this game, who knows (just popping out numbers, nothing 100% sure lol). I'd rather have it that way anyway, as I don't like to farm 24/7 or sit on the market for hours on end to generate 2 years worth of gil just to buy one item.

Its fine the way it is.

This may be by design. Before the servers closed for 1.0, pretty much everyone was a millionaire and there was just too much money to go around. Maybe they're holding back on the good ways to make gil for the higher levels so that us 1.0 peeps start to spend more than they are making. Lower levels are making money just fine.

Anyways, I don't get how so many people can make claims about the lack of circulating gil when the Markets have barely established any type of apparent trends in economy. I went on to the boards a few times and things that sold for 200k would be sold for 25k the very next sale. There's too much gil to go around and as of now it's hard to tell whether or not things are getting over priced or under priced because of the discrepancy of wealth between old and new players. I sold a piece of material I found for 40k, with it having absolutely no sale history whatsoever, and it sold almost immediately. I probably could have sold it for much more. In a few weeks or months, the issue you propose might actually be a thing, but I personally think it's way too soon to tell whether or not it poses a problem.

Gil in this game is like OIL in real life. Here comes the analogy, pay close attention ya fools!

1. New players questing is like finding new large OIL deposits.

2. Dungeons/Fates/Leves are like finding small OIL deposits.

3. Vendor trashing items is negligible.

4. AH is like refining OIL to gas but a chunk of the OIL is permanently gone from waste, by-products and energy usage.

5. Teleporting is like you driving you car. Billions of drivers and cars burning up the gas. This takes OIL out of the world.

6. Repair cost is like you buying plastics. The plastics are thrown away. This takes OIL out of the world.

Conclusion: It might take some time but in the end, the WORLD WILL RUN OUT OF OIL.

Also: IMO, this will only make RMT worse. What options does a level 50 player have but to buy Gil just to keep playing their chosen Job?

With the current world setup there is a constant stream new gil being introduced into the world. Its up to you how much gil you're willing to sink though. A lot of players think that their high level should entitle them to massive amounts of gil. Sometimes it does, but don't come in here with a strategy that requires you to spend more than you earn, then blame the game mechanics as the sole reason you're slowly going broke. If you find yourself on the wrong side of the economy in a world that gives out free gil, then its you that needs to make a change, not the game.

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Originally Posted by RobinHood

Stop using gil sinks, stop dieing so your gear is not damaged as much. Sadly with such vast amounts of new players and presumably gil sellers all constantly making new characters just to get gil into the system, you just have to learn how to get it from them. I have sold over 50 stacks of Chicken egss at 5-10k a piece since release. I am not worried.

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Your gears durability goes down as you are in combat, not just when you die (quite a lot too). Welcome to any MMO...

I really don't know what a good fix would be. If they were to increase gil from fates and leves we would simply have high inflation.

At the current rate, with as much gil as we have been losing, it seems as though higher prices (higher tax) is the culprit. But what would be a good amount for a tax?
It's at 5% atm correct? How can it be any lower and not lead to inflation, leading to even more money being taken out of the economy? (via higher tax revenue)

As I said previously. I'm just gonna wait and see about the daily quests. There is no quick fix for this issue it seems.

I think an economy with little or no inflation is a good thing honestly. In other games, money becomes meaningless to the point where you don't even think about it.

Don't pay 200k for an item when you hit 50.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I agree this is a good idea, though there are some issues.

-Repair costs are dynamic, meaning the price changes on the wear and tear sustained instead of the fixed price of 1.0. how would the market establish a fair price when it is now the static number?

-Repairing gear by the player is something that needs to be expanded further, as it is, I'm not even sure its cost effective.

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very fair question

I would personally probably charge what would perhaps be a fair use of my time in claiming the dark matter vs cost of repair by default.. for example if a body piece near broken costs 300 gil to repair would it be a fair use of my time to say farm 99 grade 5 dark matter in an hour and only charge you say 50 gil per 1 used ? that 1hr net me a little under 5k and gets you a steep repair discount. It would drive more player farming and overall help foster the growth of the economy by saving the people who want to just dungeon their gil for a little time spent finding a repair player.

I think you are asking for the wrong thing, if the main problem is that repairs are expensive and that's where most of your money is spent then one would think the solution could be reducing repair prices.

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Originally Posted by blumps

Your gears durability goes down as you are in combat, not just when you die (quite a lot too). Welcome to any MMO...

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welcome to the english language as I said "Damaged as much" I understand you lose durability regardless be the biggest chuck is death.

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Originally Posted by GefilteFish

I think an economy with little or no inflation is a good thing honestly. In other games, money becomes meaningless to the point where you don't even think about it.

Don't pay 200k for an item when you hit 50.

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It's good in theory, however, how many people do you think would follow the "nothing over 200k" rule? Wish it wasn't the case, but for the most part people only look out for themselves.

So there we go. Looking at a piece of gear going for 500k. It's not right, it's not fair. That is sadly the way it works.