All The Doom Threads Are Strange To Me

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

It's a liveservice game with no long term content.
It's an mmo where people don't need to play together.
It's an rpg without rpg elements.
It uses a class based system but makes them all the same.
It provides some challenges but fails to deliver on rewards to incentivise anyone to do them.

XIV is just not a good game.
I honestly could go on for hours.
You can farm mounts but have nowhere to show them off.
You can farm better gear but it's only useful in the content you got it from.
You can get housing items but the housing system is terrible so most players don't even have one.

Nothing in this game matters or makes a difference.

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sadly all this is extremely true and sums up some of the biggest problems ff14 has.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Okay, we get it, you didn’t like Shadowlands. Let me finish your post: the whole point of FFXIV is to not be WoW, and since WoW is a video game, FFXIV shouldn’t be one. It should have cutscenes and then no content at all so you can unsub and play other games (non-WoW).

Have you considered consulting a human rights lawyer? It seems that Blizzard is falsely imprisoning people because they’re forcing them to play WoW. That seems like a violation of international law. You see, FFXIV opposes slavery, which is why it has no content: that way you’re never forced to play against your will!

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this is so funny it has the power to unite both sides of this thread xD

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

The question really is, would you and everyone else on the forums who agree, get tired of repeating your frustrations eventually, unsub, and will you all be enough to hurt SE's bottom line?

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Voting with your wallet isn't the only option customers have. And many times it's not even the best option. The reality is that the video game industry has changed. We no longer live in an era where a game's success is measured in units sold. We live in an age of horse armor. Of shiny overpriced mounts. We live in an age of cash shops.

In today's gaming industry, it doesn't matter if you're in the majority. Because unlike in the past where 1 person typically bought 1 copy of a game (1 person. 1 vote). Today a person can continue to pump money into their favorite game of choice by purchasing microtransactions. And each time they do that they are voting with their wallet.

In today's gaming industry, people with bigger wallets have more votes.
The unfortunate result of that is that most game companies take the safe (and profitable) path of releasing the minimum viable product that they need to in order to sell these microtransactions to people with large wallets who will continue to vote loud and clear that this is what they want.

Frankly, I don't know what the solution is, but what I do know is that if you want to get anything done these days, you might want to get other people on board. And it just so happens that the forums are a convenient place where people can share their gripes and ideas with other players, AND share those feelings with the devs at the same time. It's not perfect, but it might carry more weight than silently unsubbing.

Very strange to me too, especially considering everyone I talk to in game has pretty much the opposite vibe and opinion of this forum.

But I think it's just natural for people to complain and find fault with everything. The actual quality of the game doesn't matter, people just find various reasons to complain because they are either fundamentally unhappy or, in the case of content creators, it attracts a larger viewership for less effort.

What you and everyone in this community does, is assume that because we are critical that we hate the game or something. You can be fully critical of something and love it. The best way to describe this is having a friend and telling them that their habits are bad and unhealthy, while said habits may not harm them immediately, it still can and will eventually happen. And they're other friends who see no issue with their actions says that you're jealous of them and hate on them for how they're living life.

if you didn't catch it, the people who conflate being critical of something we love with hate are the fake friends who encourage your self-destructive tendencies and have no care about your well being.

I've supported this game since ARR, I've supported SE through their bankruptcy. I have faith that things will get better and will support them through it. Which gamer's have done with plenty of other studios and companies. As much as I hate the suits that control SE, and as much as Yoshida has a habit of putting his foot in his mouth, I know this game can be better because it has been better.

If this is a hard concept, then maybe it's being purposely ignorant of how these things work.

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

Alright, full disclosure: I play alot of games. Side benefit of being a tour guide is really nice hours, leaving plenty of time to play. So before anyone tells me 'I haven't seen what's out there' or 'I don't have enough experience to know what I'm talking about' or whatever else they can come up with that doesn't actually address the substance of my post, know that I am preemptively rolling my eyes and dismissing your reply as lacking in any return substance.

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I don't mean any disrespect but it takes 1 look at your achievements, minions and such to see that this game is pretty clearly a piece on the side for you. So yes, in light of that, it's really no surprise that you're doing just fine. Endwalker in particular works brilliantly when you play the game at a lazy casual pace and light endgame such as the recent 24 mans just double down on that.

However, before you roll your eyes and stand on your high and mighty pillar of casualdom, remember that this game actually used to have a ceiling. Hardcore FCs such as Solitude, Exordium, Angered/Entropy used to run multiple teams all year round and the high end raid content had enough longevity to support that. Go stalk the biggest hardcore raid FC on your data centre's house.

Spoiler: it'll be an absolute ghost town. Why? Because the recipe is stale and Endwalker did less than nothing to try and address the issues that people like myself have been flagging up for years. Despite what SE's PR department aka Jeeq would have you believe, the trail of sprouts isn't endless. They always eventually dry up regardless of how dominant an MMO may be.

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

All this.

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Current WoW isn't a Grindfest, having a bajillion Reps hasn't been a thing in over a decade. Dailies out the ass went out the window with BFA and Shadowlands. The Grind, you speak of has been dead for quite some time. But threre's nothing wrong with a grind. What you and so many others like to do is make it seem like both a grind and an alternative cannot exist at the same time. These things are not mutually exclusive. Let's take a more popular grind, the Argent Tournament from back in Wrath. People enjoyed the grind due to having worth while rewards, the reason people didn't feel bothered about FoMo back then was due to prestige. Given Yoshida's issue with that concept, as of Stormblood when he did away with it, we move forward into a new type of grind.

Bozja/Zadnor is where we introduce the new none Mutually Exclusive Grind, one where it could have worked, if they didn't allow for players to farm relic items outside Zadnor. The reason why XIV fails at grinds and why they always feel bad here is due to them trying to let the players have their cake and eat it to. They wanna give everything without there ever being anything more meaningful beyond the the relic and some glam.

In WoW grinds became heavy for them because prior to WoW MMOs were DRASTICALLY different, Remmeber, WoW used to be the Casuals MMO compared to it's elders in the genre. Mix that with a bunch of old heads being a bit too idolized by their replacements and we have a adherence to dated ideologies that kept them from catching up with the ever changing aspects of the gaming industry at large and the MMO genre.

Where WoW is now succeeding, is in adapting to the new norms and looking around the room again, which is what they've always done best. Where XIV is failing, is exactly how WoW was failing, being too stuck in their ways and refusing to look at what may be better even if it's new and uncomfortable.

Innovation, Iteration, and Evolution are the blood of MMOs, and if you fall behind on any of it you will start to feel like a slog of an MMO. XIV can easily fix this, but only if they're willing to adapt and change things up.

Honestly, I've seen more thread making some criticism derailed by people either saying "yet another doom thread" or exagerating the critic to a point it's ridiculous than actual "doom threads".

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Originally Posted by Grizzlpaw

Voting with your wallet isn't the only option customers have. And many times it's not even the best option. The reality is that the video game industry has changed. We no longer live in an era where a game's success is measured in units sold. We live in an age of horse armor. Of shiny overpriced mounts. We live in an age of cash shops.

In today's gaming industry, it doesn't matter if you're in the majority. Because unlike in the past where 1 person typically bought 1 copy of a game (1 person. 1 vote). Today a person can continue to pump money into their favorite game of choice by purchasing microtransactions. And each time they do that they are voting with their wallet.

In today's gaming industry, people with bigger wallets have more votes.
The unfortunate result of that is that most game companies take the safe (and profitable) path of releasing the minimum viable product that they need to in order to sell these microtransactions to people with large wallets who will continue to vote loud and clear that this is what they want.

Frankly, I don't know what the solution is, but what I do know is that if you want to get anything done these days, you might want to get other people on board. And it just so happens that the forums are a convenient place where people can share their gripes and ideas with other players, AND share those feelings with the devs at the same time. It's not perfect, but it might carry more weight than silently unsubbing.

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Someone on one of the reddit subs did a calculation and found that square made 30 million dollars off the squall bike alone, what does my measly 20 dollars per month matter to them when they have a cash shop retention like that

It’s obvious me walking away won’t change anything, so I’d rather come on here and ask for what I want considering leaving isn’t going to benefit anyone

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Originally Posted by Metalface_Villain

sadly all this is extremely true and sums up some of the biggest problems ff14 has.

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If that quote is as true as you claim why do you play the game? Why does that person play the game? I have been playing since 1.0 and like the op find things to do and enjoy in ffxiv every single day. If you are unhappy do something you enjoy. Stop spending your entire existence incessantly complaining about things you cannot change in life. You may actually find something you enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Metalface_Villain

I dunno about doom and all that but after base Endwalker all the patches had almost no content for non hardcore players and that's simple facts.

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I stopped reading right here for a moment because the "simple facts" are the complete opposite. I am most definitely a non-hardcore player. I still have content from the various patches that I've barely touched or haven't done at all (but am still looking forward to doing). The closest thing to a "fact" might be the dev team this time around didn't create content you desire, or that the content in and of itself isn't as "long-lasting" as something like an exploratory zone, but the "simple fact" is that there is a lot of content for non-hardcore players.

Oh, for the record, I've been playing on-and-off since 2015 and playing this game as my main MMO since 2021, and I haven't come close to touching all of the content I want to do (let alone everything that exists, as there are a variety of things I just don't personally have interest in).

And have you considered that perhaps they intentionally did NOT put in an M+ system because that's not the kind of game FFXIV wants to be, or the crowd it wants to attract? And again - you might be disappointed with things like Manderville. Other people (such as myself) love that kind of content and very much enjoy the Manderville storylines.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

If that quote is as true as you claim why do you play the game? Why does that person play the game. I have been playing since 1.0 and like the op find things to do and enjoy in ffxiv every single day. If you are unhappy do something you enjoy. Stop spending your entire existence incessantly complaining about things you cannot change in life. You may actually find something you enjoy.

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We're you the same person who literally sat here and said the Idea of this game changing actually scared you, I could have sworn that was the case?

Remember kids it’s a rule in 14 discussion

If you’ve been playing since 2013 and still have more content to do then you are totally valid and there is nothing wrong with the game

If youve been playing since 2022 and you’ve already done all the content you are obviously a toxic tryhard and should go die in a hole or something

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Remember kids it’s a rule in 14 discussion

If you’ve been playing since 2013 and still have more content to do then you are totally valid and there is nothing wrong with the game

If youve been playing since 2022 and you’ve already done all the content you are obviously a toxic tryhard and should go die in a hole or something

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I wouldn't dismiss someone as a toxic tryhard unless they're acting like a toxic tryhard (those types of player unfortunately do exist). I also wouldn't say anyone should go die in a hole unless they're someone going on real life violent criminal sprees (or recklessly inciting them) with no concern for others.

But if you're been playing since 2022 and you've already done everything you want to do, then you should go play other games until new content is released that you want to do. That shouldn't be hard to figure out. Developers are never going to be able to keep pace with those players who consume content the fastest.

While Jobs could be improved. I have few complaints about the amount of content in 14. I have a massive list of goals that I'm aiming for and I've only scratched the surface. By the time I run though the list and run out of things to do, years will have passed and I'll leave content knowing I got plenty out of this game. Just as I did when I finally achieved all of my goals in Gw2. Those were years well spent.

I have to ask this question: What constitutes a doom post here?

Is it any criticism post? Is it if the OP is regarded as a known doomposter? Is it any post you don't personally like?

I've been seeing people go into criticism threads lately and just claim it's doom posting. What is the criteria for a thread to be considered dooming?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I have to ask this question: What constitutes a doom post here?

Is it any criticism post? Is it if the OP is regarded as a known doomposter? Is it any post you don't personally like?

I've been seeing people go into criticism threads lately and just claim it's doom posting. What is the criteria for a thread to be considered dooming?

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"Game is dying" with evidence usually being a screenshot of empty PF on a low populated server in middle of the night, OP's 'experienced opinion' and some poll from third party website that doesn't actually tell anything about subscription or overall player numbers. And any 'critique' thread, where there is less critique and more "this current thing sucks and THATS why game is dying" or "this upcoming things sucks and THATS why the game will die for sure when it comes". There can be valid critique, but its often buried behind the intents of just trying to validate one's dislike of things by claiming that said things are somehow actively currently killing the game, when in fact, game has been doing perfectly well, and still is and for the time being that remains unchanged, hence why the 'critique' threads commonly get called out on being Doomposting.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

"Game is dying" with evidence usually being a screenshot of empty PF on a low populated server in middle of the night, OP's 'experienced opinion' and some poll from third party website that doesn't actually tell anything about subscription or overall player numbers. And any 'critique' thread, where there is less critique and more "this current thing sucks and THATS why game is dying" or "this upcoming things sucks and THATS why the game will die for sure when it comes". There can be valid critique, but its often buried behind the intents of just trying to validate one's dislike of things by claiming that said things are somehow actively currently killing the game, when in fact, game has been doing perfectly well, and still is and for the time being that remains unchanged, hence why the 'critique' threads commonly get called out on being Doomposting.

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I understand that the "game is dead/dying" posts are increasingly annoying. But what of the threads that don't mention "dead/dying game" but also have people coming in and claiming it's dooming? Having people enter a constructive critique thread and claim it's dooming is just as annoying as people claiming the game is dying in every positive thread, no?

I played WoW for many years before FFXIV, and still pop in occasionally via PTR. I left there because:
1. If you don't raid, there's no gear progression beyond dungeon and crafted gear (both crap.)
2. The new Dragonflight talent system looked like more work than fun. I prefer the previous system with it's far fewer choices.
3. They broke my target closest macro by disabling /cleartarget in macros when used with other commands, like /cleartarget, then /targetenemy
4. Toxic guild. Could have found another after I quit, but FFXIV pulled me away and I never resubbed for Dragonflight.

FFXIV is still doing fine in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

"Game is dying" with evidence usually being a screenshot of empty PF on a low populated server in middle of the night, OP's 'experienced opinion' and some poll from third party website that doesn't actually tell anything about subscription or overall player numbers. And any 'critique' thread, where there is less critique and more "this current thing sucks and THATS why game is dying" or "this upcoming things sucks and THATS why the game will die for sure when it comes". There can be valid critique, but its often buried behind the intents of just trying to validate one's dislike of things by claiming that said things are somehow actively currently killing the game, when in fact, game has been doing perfectly well, and still is and for the time being that remains unchanged, hence why the 'critique' threads commonly get called out on being Doomposting.

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You do not need to wait for obscure periods for PF to basically be a raiding hub and very little else.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Remember kids it’s a rule in 14 discussion

If you’ve been playing since 2013 and still have more content to do then you are totally valid and there is nothing wrong with the game

If youve been playing since 2022 and you’ve already done all the content you are obviously a toxic tryhard and should go die in a hole or something

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Cant even trust you because youd most likely still complain come DT when we have exploratory zones again. Theres nothing anyone can do to please the crowd you prioritize in making one game their only game.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Cant even trust you because youd most likely still complain come DT when we have exploratory zones again. Theres nothing anyone can do to please the crowd you prioritize in making one game their only game.

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Make it my one game, ha, that’s a riot, 14 wouldn’t even be in my top 10, I just like having content that justifies what I pay for, if I really wanted to make one game my only game I’d go replay persona 4 forever, that’s a game I could play on repeat forever

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Make it my one game, ha, that’s a riot, 14 wouldn’t even be in my top 10, I just like having content that justifies what I pay for, if I really wanted to make one game my only game I’d go replay persona 4 forever, that’s a game I could play on repeat forever

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Wow Persona flippin 4? Why am I not surprised.

Also people have varying levels of sub justification. If you clearly done all the content you care about then unsub rather than screaming into the aether to add more content. Youre just wasting your money at this point.

You know not everyone is going to want to do everything in this game and some even try to force themselves to play more just out of obligation, thats the sad part.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Wow Persona flippin 4? Why am I not surprised.

Also people have varying levels of sub justification. If you clearly done all the content you care about then unsub rather than screaming into the aether to add more content. Youre just wasting your money at this point.

You know not everyone is going to want to do everything in this game and some even try to force themselves to play more just out of obligation, thats the sad part.

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At this point I could have said literally any game on earth and you would have responded the same way so whatever (but I am willing to defend persona 4, that game is a masterpiece)

And that’s the thing, I do unsub, regularly, in 14 years I’ve only been actively subbed for maybe 4-5 of them I know my own expenses well enough to know when my sub is and isn’t getting me the benefit the money is worth, that is totally independent of me wanting more content, I can be subbed and ask for more content, I can be unsubbed and ask for more content, asking for more content is entirely independent of whether my sub is worth it at the current time

Is that really so hard to understand

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Wow Persona flippin 4? Why am I not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

At this point I could have said literally any game on earth and you would have responded the same way so whatever (but I am willing to defend persona 4, that game is a masterpiece)

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Sorry Snow, I've been on your side before, but obviously I was mistaken. P4/P5 fans surely can't be trusted. Naturally, this invalidates everything you said about Final Fantasy XIV.

Why don't you go play a REAL Shin Megami Tensei game, like Nocturne, or Jack Bros? Hahahaha.

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Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

Sorry Snow, I've been on your side before, but obviously I was mistaken. P4/P5 fans surely can't be trusted. Naturally, this invalidates everything you said about Final Fantasy XIV.

Why don't you go play a REAL Shin Megami Tensei game, like Nocturne, or Jack Bros? Hahahaha.

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I will not be lumped in with persona 5 fans, that cheap over designed ripoff of the classy masterpiece that is persona 4 should not even be in the same sentence haha

I had a bigger response, but it all just boiled down to this:

People love something that changes the status quo, but hate it the moment it becomes it.

This happens every time there's a lull in the game; especially the time around fan fest and launch of new expac. "nothing to do" "game is dead" "if they don't fix this I'm leaving". Better to just get used to it cause it's not going away until game shuts down.

Can you link the exact "doom threads you speak of"? I hear a lot about these, but I can never find them.

It's almost always criticism of game design that gets labeled as "doom threads", because there are some players in this forum who are too emotionally immature to handle other people criticizing the thing they like.

i really believe we need to discuss how to improve the game together instead of casting shade on people willing to criticize the game or on people who want to defend the game, we all are here because we like the game, and we all want the best from the game.

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Originally Posted by TheShadowsOfVanity

(Character Limit)

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That's just this forum in a nutshell, and I can guarantee you every single "Doom Thread" is made by someone who has kept an active sub and has played through every expansion.

They are a vocal minority. Pay them no heed.

THE DOOM IS NIGH, SEND ME YOUR GIL TO FIND ABSOLUTION.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

If that quote is as true as you claim why do you play the game? Why does that person play the game? I have been playing since 1.0 and like the op find things to do and enjoy in ffxiv every single day. If you are unhappy do something you enjoy. Stop spending your entire existence incessantly complaining about things you cannot change in life. You may actually find something you enjoy.

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that's a bad argument, people not leaving doesn't make those statements untrue. ff14 has many flaws but that doesn't mean that it also doesn't have good things, people can for 1 like those things and stick with the game for that, that doesn't make their complaints for the other stuff invalid. people also keep playing for the same reason people did with wow, because they invested a lot of time in this game for so long and have an emotional tie. i personally came with the wow exodus and because wow was so bad at that time and because ff14 was still new i had a lot of things to do and didn't feel the flaws, now i have nothing to do and this is actually my last patch. the main reason i played for all these patches tbh in ew was because of ocd "forcing" to complete all the relics but after seeing how they all look the same and not that good (in my eyes) i won't bother even with that. so i guess you're wrong either way xD

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Nobody is arguing the game is actually dying, but people are arguing the game they want to play is dying, which is a totally different argument

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The game I want to play died over a decade ago. FFXIV is just currently the only viable substitute. FFXIV has always been extremely anemic when it comes to content. It's why I took a long break for the middle third of every expansion cycle from ARR through ShB. The fact is, this discussion is only getting so big just now because the massive influx of new players the game received during ShB simply didn't encounter this problem until now. Now that they've been here for a few years and the veil of being a new player has been lifted, they're seeing the game as it actually is. It shouldn't have taken a decade for this discussion to happen, - and I'm amazed it didn't happen earlier (such as way back mid-hw) - but here we are.

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Originally Posted by EZGIL

https://media1.giphy.com/media/f46iWuMqIGuXe/giphy.gif

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I THOUGHT ABT THIS

I honestly feel the same, and I think I'll go back to Everquest after this because at least there's content and a community that listens and gets decent QoL changes put in place. They don't scream bloody murder when you hint the game isn't perfect. Or blame everything on some nebulous form of the game from 15 years ago and how impossible it is to change anything. "Oh, well because 1.0 that's impossible and we should just accept to be miserable. I like giving my money to Squeenix so they can waste it on pointless GACHA games and titles they cancel in a week."

Etc etc "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." And "Well this game isn't for you clearly." < Great way to build a community folks, or even keep one going.

It doesn't feel particularly encouraging to me that there's no indication any of the core gameplay content is actually getting improved; just assurances that it's going to be there (As per usual).

Making bold claims about this being comparable to an "ARR 2.0" doesn't hold much water when most of the confirmed updates are strictly cosmetic thus far.

I suppose that might change, but considering history...

It seems well agreed upon that in an effort to become not like WoW/more like a single player rpg, the game forgot that it's a sub based MMO, and thats a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Erzaa

This is entertainment, not a job. If I want to repeat the same thing every single day for months or years on end, all I need to do is go to work in the morning.

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you might want to reconsider playing an MMO then

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Originally Posted by Scruit_Bigtime

you might want to reconsider playing an MMO then

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Thank you for your input. I'll give it due consideration and then toss it in the garbage where it belongs.